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Classic Gaming with Zelda Homebrew

Posted by Zonk on from the i-am-a-prisoner-in-the-dungeon-of-the-castle dept.

Belgarath writes "Zelda Classic is a free homebrew clone of the original Legend of Zelda for the NES. Additionally, it allows people to create their own zelda quests and games using the handy editor (called z-quest) included in the software. Until now only windows versions have been available but there are beta test groups for the Linux and Apple platforms."

58 comments

  1. another game for mac! by bach37 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yes! Make that now 5 total games for mac!

    /Okay maybe not so funny. (Yes, I am an iBook user- just trying to make a joke before you all mod me to hell.) :)

  2. This is what I've been waiting for! by Emrikol · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've always wanted to re-play Zelda with new (more SNES-ish) graphics! The "Basic 1st" is what you're looking for.

    Oh...and apple? Why's this under apple?

    --
    You're all bastards!
    1. Re:This is what I've been waiting for! by jeffasselin · · Score: 1

      Check their forums, in ZC General discussion, a guy is looking for beta testers.

      --
      If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
    2. Re:This is what I've been waiting for! by mentalflossboy · · Score: 1

      Any game coming out that works on a Mac is big news for Apple people.

      --
      "I make people like me... WITH VIOLENCE!" - ATHF
    3. Re:This is what I've been waiting for! by Ayaress · · Score: 1

      re-play Zelda with new (more SNES-ish) graphics

      Although it could have been changed since I downloaded it, I've had the windows version for a long time. It looks and feels exactly like the NES version, no graphical update.

      I never tried out any of the custom quests, though, so it's entirely possible somebody has put together the original quest using sprites from Link to the Past or something and I never knew about it.

    4. Re:This is what I've been waiting for! by skadus · · Score: 1, Informative

      Not Link to the Past sprites (unless major changes have been made, it's still a 'one tile at a time' setup), but there have been tons of remakes featuring the BSZelda (SNES Japanese Satellite Add-On) tileset, a modified SNES-ified Link's Awakening tileset, and a few others. The Link's Awakening tileset allowed for a few remakes involving cutable grass and staircases (among other things), so it's not just an exact clone.

    5. Re:This is what I've been waiting for! by NardofDoom · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because we'll have to know what sites to avoid when we're actually trying to get work done.

      --
      You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
  3. classic is cool but... by big+ben+bullet · · Score: 0, Troll

    but those freaking graphics suck

    i know, i know... it's the authenticity that counts, but still, i would like to see some more up to date graphics... like that defender of the crown remake fe

    1. Re:classic is cool but... by AlexMax2742 · · Score: 1

      There is a BS-X Zelda style version of the first quest included with Zelda Classic, and some of the more recent quests have really awesome tilesets themselves. So yeah, if you want prettyness, you're in luck.

      --
      I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
  4. Why do we celebrate clones? by Temporal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Honestly. Why re-make Zelda when you could be creating something completely original? I mean, if people want to remake Zelda, copyright violations aside (and yes, they are violating copyrights), it's up to them how to spend their time. But, honestly, the tendency for open source game developers to spend massive amounts of time simply copying something we already have disappoints me. I would be far more interested if someone had created an entirely original gameplay engine and an entirely original game to go with it. And really, it isn't that hard. In my experience, inventing your own gameplay mechanics is far easier and more fun than implementing them.

    1. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by Temporal · · Score: 1

      Er. On further inspection I'm not sure if this thing is even open source. Not that that was a central part of my argument, though. Should have used the term "amateur", I guess.

    2. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by skadus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd imagine if you knock ZClassic, you probably don't play any Doom or Quake mods, do you?

      It's not just a 'remake' of Zelda, it's a remake with an editor.

      Yeah, it's not quite the same as making a whole new game, but think of it less as a game and more of a toolset with a demo game, like Neverwinter Nights or some of the id game engines (I've heard people before say games like Quake 3 were less of a full game and more of a starting point for mods). What better way to show off a Zelda toolset than with a tile-by-tile remake of the game the engine is based on?

      People have made tons of quests for ZClassic, from plain old Zelda quests to MegaMan X quests, and everything in-between.

      And the point behind using an editor to make a game rather than building from scratch? You can just jump in and *create* rather than coding every last bit of it first.

    3. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not violating copyrights. Trademarks, maybe, but not copyrights, since they don't use the ROMs.

    4. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by Temporal · · Score: 2

      That's great. I am glad that they included an editor, and that people are creating somewhat-more-original games with it. But why not create an original gameplay system with an editor, rather than a copy of Zelda with an editor? As I understand it, quests made with ZClassic all use Zelda-style gameplay mechanics (correct me if I'm wrong).

      And the answer I see is this: By copying Zelda, they can capitalize on the Zelda name, saying "Hey look! You can make your own Zelda with this!", thus drawing attention. Whereas, if they created something original, it would be much harder to get attention. I'm sure there is some sort of original gameplay system out there with an editor that Slashdot could be reporting on, and it would be nice if they did. (I'm sort of working on one myself, but sadly I don't have enough time to be serious about it.)

    5. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by Temporal · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Irrelevant. Copying the graphics, tile layout, user interface, etc. by hand is still copying, and counts as copyright infringement. There is no clause in copyright law that says only machine-based copying is illegal. Try retyping a book letter-for-letter then selling your retype; you won't get very far.

    6. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've released it for free, and all credit is given, so whether it's illegal means fuck-all.

      Go ahead and cry, go ahead and "alert the authorities" or whatever it is you tattletales do.

      Then, shut the fuck up until somebody has committed a real crime.

    7. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by MacGod · · Score: 1

      Also, it seems silly to create something that not only was already done, but can be played via existing NES emulators!

      --
      "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
    8. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by skadus · · Score: 0

      True, it is capitalising on Zelda (and there are changes to the engine to support items from later games in the series like the hookshot, etc, so you can actually expand on the original), but I don't think that's the sole reason they released it.

      If I recall correctly, ZClassic was formed out of a ROM hacking project (not out of a 'hey! let's make a toolset and gain notoriety by ripping off a game we love!' mindset - this thing has been out for several years now, with very little attention drawn to it), and adding to the 'nostalgia effect' is being able to create your own Zelda game. Yes, it's unoriginal, but the problem with going with an 'original' battle system, etc. is it may not fit what you'd like to do. For some people a whole new engine might be great, but there are others (like me) that would feel that a whole new engine would be similar, but not quite the same. Like playing Dragon Warrior in a Final Fantasy interface.

      Not to mention the fact that creating a 'Zelda *inspired*' engine would bring out cries of 'knockoff'.

      Eh. I'm rambling too much. Basically, I guess what I'm saying is, an original engine would work for some people, and a Zelda-like or Zelda clone engine works for some others. It all depends on the type of game you're making. Some of us feel more comfortable making Zelda-style games in a Zelda engine, rather than retooling someone else's engine to fit what we want to do (and believe me, Zelda doesn't transfer very easily to Neverwinter Nights - back when I tried to, I took weeks trying to get bombs to work).

      Personally, I've not seen any toolsets for Zelda-style games out there, and would gladly check them out. But all I've seen is Aurora and Verge and similar console and D&D RPG toolsets (and no, I won't code my own, because I wouldn't have any idea where to start, and I'd rather make the game than the engine anyway).

      On an OT note, has anyone seen a similar program, but with the old SNES Final Fantasy games? I recall seeing one way back, but then it mysteriously vanished... I'd kill to be able to quickly and easily create a FF-style game.

    9. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by blincoln · · Score: 1

      People who are hardcore fans of a series often do whatever they can to expand on its world.

      Re-making older games as a fan project is just another aspect of the same mentality that produces fan fiction/art, cosplaying, etc.

      For example, if I had the time and the money, I would love to do something like this for Soul Reaver. I like playing Soul Reaver-esque games, but I would enjoy an updated version with improved graphics and mod-ability even more, because it's that particular game world that I like.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    10. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by hai.uchida · · Score: 1

      You never had a hobby? These guys obviously love Zelda and wanted to see if they could code it. They also wanted to play new levels/quests in the old game. They're not trying to make money, it's an homage, like a bar band covering their favorite supergroup's song. It may technically be copyright violation, and will probably get shut down, but since there's no profit motive I can't see where this is doing any harm.

      As for creating something new... Maybe, like many programmers, they don't have a good enough sense of story and design to create a compelling new game-- and they may not have the skills to create something that will compete with the great stuff that's already out there. So they made this, and thoughtfully included a level editor to allow Zelda fans to craft their own adventures with the characters and mechanics they love. Again, it's a hobby... Which is pretty much by definition useless, a waste of time, but also a means of recreation.

      Anyway, I plan to try it out and maybe even design a few levels.

      --
      my password is private, but unchanged.
    11. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      I believe this would be what you're looking for.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    12. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by Temporal · · Score: 1

      I have a hobby... I write software and design games for fun. The difference is that I always make an effort to create something completely new rather than copy someone else. Not only do I find it more fun, but the results are more interesting and rewarding. Honestly, I never understood why someone would want to create an exact clone of some other person's work, but apparently it's just me.

    13. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      Then, shut the fuck up until somebody has committed a real crime.

      It's so good to know that copyright laws don't really exist in America, that their existence is only a rumour.

    14. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by cgenman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, but Zelda is a classic worthy of celebration. Much like how people keep remaking and re-releasing much loved movies and songs, videogames deserve the same treatment. Now, whether they're being remade for the benefit of humanity or because someone wants to feel closer to a classic somehow is another story discussion, but the draw is definitely there.

      Plus, it's a great way to get to understand the decisions that went into the creation of the classic without the hassle and failures of from-scratch development. Inventing your own gameplay is fraught with peril, especially as it is a skill people are expected to pick up on their own. This way you deconstruct an existing engine down to the minutest detail, without having to worry about your own design mistakes or lack of available art resources.

      And on top of that, they created the engine specifically to allow anyone to design levels for the classic. Imagine if anyone could go back with the original storm trooper outfits and create their own scenes or storylines for starwars. Some of it would be as good as troops, and some of it would be as bad as The Phantom Menace. Certainly letting anyone be a level designer for a classic Miyamoto game is reason enough for the project's existence.

      I do agree, though, that it would be nice if there were more original OS games developed, but that doesn't mean classics like this shouldn't get people excited enough to go out and make their own versions.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    15. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by patternjuggler · · Score: 1

      the tendency for open source game developers to spend massive amounts of time simply copying something we already have disappoints me

      The tendency for other people to do things in their spare time to entertain themselves and others like them but not you is truly a great human failing- If only someone would write an epic novel to memorialize this for future generations: I've tried posting on slashdot but I'm yet to convince any accomplished writers to write stuff to my specification for free...

      In my experience, inventing your own gameplay mechanics is far easier and more fun than implementing them.

      Presumably why there's no code to download from your game site, right?

      Why re-make Zelda when you could be creating something completely original?... I would be far more interested if someone had created an entirely original gameplay engine and an entirely original game

      If you only care about certain aspects of game creation, you're not going to waste a lot of time being original in every other department you don't care about. The fact is, there's plenty of people making their own contributions to experimental gaming if you go look for them (Kenta Cho comes to mind in the graphics departmnet). But moost of those projects aren't worth a slashdot article, and very few have the nostalgia factor of 8-bit Legend of Zelda.

    16. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by Mornelithe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've never personally understood why a man would want to have sex with another man, or why some people like the taste of straight gin. Apparently there are a variety of people in this world with different likes and dislikes, and some of them aren't exactly the same as either you or I.

      By the way, are your games really completely new? Are you inventing new genres that aren't at all based on any existing game genres (fps, puzzle, rts, rpg, etc.)? Truly original ideas that aren't related to/derived from other existing ideas are hard to come by.

      --

      I've come for the woman, and your head.

    17. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by Temporal · · Score: 1

      Presumably why there's no code to download from your game site, right?

      Entirely moot point. Fate of Io, in its charter, states that it is not serious and will most likely never produce an end product. That has nothing to do with its originality and everything to do with my available free time. Another of my projects -- Evlan, the programming language -- is equally original and is very much serious. In fact, I'll have the first usable version of it done in the next week.

    18. Re:Why do we celebrate clones? by log0n · · Score: 1

      Because technical people who have the skills to develop these tools and create great game engines generally are not artsy creative people with the ability to create interesting game stories.

  5. Did this too...got a letter from a lawyer. by Tronster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I took on the Nehe Open Source Zelda project two years ago. We made much progress (portals from overworld to underworld, most all weapons implemented, etc...) and then we got a letter from Nintendo's lawyers about the graphics. We had lifted them from an emulator (screen shots and Photoshop-action) and so we needed to scrap them.

    The project could have continued but that took a significant amount of air out of my sails. I gave the code to a friend at the BaltoLUG who added SDL to it and made it work on Linux. This new project is still up but not being actively developed: Openlynks. Sadely, the level editor was made in Visual Basic 6 and so unlike the C++/OpenGL game engine, it hasn't been ported over.

    The remains of the project pages are here.

    1. Re:Did this too...got a letter from a lawyer. by LinuxThis · · Score: 1

      Hey Tronster this is Dom

      > Not being actively developed

      Oh I wouldn't say that.. the Dreamcast port has been hogging up all my time (what time??). Its about 99% finished, I'm havin some issues with the alpha blending.

      The codebase was too complete to let it sit idly, you guys did a great job with the game.

      As for the map editor, once I'm finished the DC port, I have plans to make a GTK based one.

      My roomate who redid the graphics originally said he'll update them when we move from 8x8 to 16x16 tiles, making it much more like the SNES zelda.

      I think we'll get some interest from the DC homebrew scene of having such a large engine running on DC.

      Still is a shame about Nintendo being stupid like that and scaring everyone off the project.

  6. Shut down... by TLSPRWR · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I predict less than a week before Nintendo finds and shuts this project down like they have all the other remakes/original games based off their intellectual property.
    Yes, as a webmaster, I've gotten a cease and desist letter for hosting a Mario fangame site, and there are countless examples of other fan projects that are released FOR FREE but Nintendo doesn't like someone using their characters. Sega, however is VERY lenient, and we know they know about us.

    1. Re:Shut down... by AlexMax2742 · · Score: 1
      Good thing that Zelda Classic 1.84 is pretty much a finished project, unlike various other remake projects that get shot down before they have a finished product. So even if it gets shut down, it'll still be floating around on various seedy places on the internet. Though I havn't tried it under DOSBox.

      However, later versions (which do nothing to the origional quest, simply add more tools and items for homebrew Zelda Quests) and the betas are a little less stable, from what I have heard at least, though there is a Windows native version of later versions.

      --
      I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
  7. Nin ten dont stop by eamonman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hopefully Nintendo won't squish this project now that it's made the front page of Slashdot. Their website does appear to mention Nintendo's copyright on the page, but that doesn't mean they have big N's permission.

    But I would think (hope) that Nintendo wouldn't really have a problem with them as:
    1. It's non-profit.
    2. It maintains a brand awareness of their product.
    3. It doesn't look like people are trying to ruin /change the image of Zelda/Link (at least not in a bad way). I don't feel that this is one of those Star Wars / Star Trek strict universe/timeline things...

    --
    0- Eamonman Proud member of DNRC
    1. Re:Nin ten dont stop by macrom · · Score: 1

      Nintendo would have a problem with from the perspective of precedent. If you let this one project continue, then you're sending the message that it's OK to use Nintendo IP without permission or license as long as you stay within a certain context. So while a majority of the people at Nintendo may feel flattered and find this project rather cool, their legal department will not want to establish any sort of precedent that ripping of the Big N is OK.

    2. Re:Nin ten dont stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only thing Nintendo could claim are the Z1-original quests, and possibly the name of the whole thing - there are plenty of original quests available. And I don't see how they could muscle them into shutting the whole thing down completely, because look and feel is not copyrightable.

    3. Re:Nin ten dont stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to just post anonymously, being a member of the ZC community for more than two years, that once a long while ago I had the nerve to contact Nintendo of America (NOA), via their e-mail address specifically for legal issues, about Zelda Classic. I received a response saying that they will look into it, and in two years nothing has happened to ZC. Perhaps it is after all clear, at least with NOA?

      To those who are also part of the ZC community, I apologize for that one moment long ago when I was feeling vengeful.

  8. Already one out there by TupperTrenine · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is already a Zelda-clone MMORPG called Graal Online. It has a level editor and its own scripting language for in-game NPCs.

    Although I'm sure this is quite different... I am at school and cannot check it out :)

    1. Re:Already one out there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only reason you say that is because you work for it. It's a horrid game nowadays.

    2. Re:Already one out there by TupperTrenine · · Score: 1

      The game itself is amazing. As is with these types of games, the people ruin it.

  9. Differences between Classic and Original. by Pentomino · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I tried this back in college, when it was just for DOS. Fun stuff, though you can tell that some parts of the game are based on idealized memories.

    For example, we all knew that blue Tektites were more likely to drop 5-Rupee pieces than most characters, and blue Moblins were more likely to drop bombs. But in Zelda Classic, it seems they drop these respective treasures three or four times per screen. Makes it a little too easy, I think, but nobody to my knowledge has reverse-engineered the game to the point where we understand what the probabilities really are.

    But the one feature I love the most about Zelda Classic: you can switch B-button weapons without taking five seconds to scroll up to the selection screen. I love that. I wish the N64 ports had that.

  10. The interesting........ by KenwoodTrueX · · Score: 1
    The interesting thing about this is you can create your own levels. I wish they would make something like this for Link to the Past.

    Free Flat Screen HERE!

    1. Re:The interesting........ by skadus · · Score: 1

      Closest thing I've heard of is a ROM hacker program called Hyrule Magic (can't find the exact URL, and just about to leave work to go home).

      Not sure what all it can do though; I've only used it to import a sprite-edit to make Link have blond hair and Wind Waker colored jerkins (it looks really good in-game, if I do say so myself)

    2. Re:The interesting........ by jonwil · · Score: 2, Informative

      As someone who has not only been around before the first release of Hyrule Magic and knows the author but has even added code to it myself (at least I think they are still using my code) I must say that Hyrule Magic is one of the 2 best editors for any ROM that I have ever seen/used.
      The other one is Lunar Magic, an editor for the SNES classic Super Mario World.

      If you like zelda and editing, Hyrule Magic is a serious tool.
      And if you like zelda, play the excellent Zelda 3 Challenge hack when it is released.

      I wont link to the actual Hyrule MAgic site since it seems to be suffering bandwidth/hosting issues and the last thing that they need right now is a slashdotting :)

  11. Nintendo may have good reason... by Spykk · · Score: 1

    Nintendo has been rereleasing alot of their classic games for different systems. If I worked at Nintendo I would certainly look at something like this as a threat to profit. Were it an original game within the zelda mythos it would be harder to make that argument (well, not for their lawyers I imagine).

  12. Pull the story and bury it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As the person who submitted this story to slashdot I am appalled that slashdot would edit and rewrite my entire submission, taking it out of context and important information with no respect to journalistic integrity or respect for the internet community.

    As such I do not want my name on something that is not my work, and ask that you pull this story and bury it on ethical grounds.

    - Belgarath

    1. Re:Pull the story and bury it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, you have to register for that. then you can cry to Taco, then you can suck an egg. don't be such a dick. 'ethical grounds' heh.. elitist moron. "Belgarath"

    2. Re:Pull the story and bury it. by llamaluvr · · Score: 1

      so, what did you originally write?

      --
      Insightful: 76, Off-Topic: 379, Flamebait: 24, Funny: 152, Interesting: 201, Underrated: 55, Troll: 9, Total: 896
    3. Re:Pull the story and bury it. by vonFinkelstien · · Score: 1
      The maintainer of the OS X port was worried about being /.ed and asked if anyone knew how to the pull a story from /. Then the poster asked /. to pull it (citing differences from the original). The poster also got a little scolding at ZC (behind closed doors) and said that he was leaving their community.

      You would think that they would love getting hoards of /. beta-testers. ;-)

  13. Beta? by Sophrosyne · · Score: 1

    Anyone have a link for the OS X download? I can't find it anywhere...

  14. Ahhhh Zelda by sydbarrett74 · · Score: 1

    This is AWESOME! I spent many hundreds of hours of my youth playing Zelda. The only game I've played that comes close in terms of crack-addict potential is Fable for the XBox.

    --
    'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
  15. I haven't got time to play this by lukestuts · · Score: 2, Funny

    I can't start on Zelda when I haven't finished Photoshop!

  16. Re:Beta? [hmm yeah no os X] by bach37 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, looks like no OS X version. And this is posted in the Apple section.... *D'oh!*

  17. Man, what resolution is that.... by llamaluvr · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...like, um, 4*3???

    --
    Insightful: 76, Off-Topic: 379, Flamebait: 24, Funny: 152, Interesting: 201, Underrated: 55, Troll: 9, Total: 896
    1. Re:Man, what resolution is that.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      320x240. There is a scale option, though, to make it large enough to work with comfortably in higher resolutions.

  18. Mac OS X beta tester sign-up by vonFinkelstien · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sign up for the OS X version in their forum. Click on ZC Discussions, then search for "mac" and your find it.

  19. The first rule... by Gkeeper80 · · Score: 1

    The first rule of Zelda Classic is "Don't mention Zelda Classic on Slashdot".
    The second rule of Zelda Classic is "Don't mention Zelda Classic on Slashdot". ...

  20. Setting a few thing's straight... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Zelda Classic isn't completely legal. We know that. We've known it for a long time. We've made an effort to spot out what we'd need to change in case we did get a "Cease and Desist", but we haven't. Nintendo knows we're here, we've been on thier radar on more than one occasion. First time they came, saw what we were donig and left. Second time we were reported as a clone, an NoA official dug deeper and a few peopleexplained what Zelca Classic really was. They have'nt touched us since.

    Zelda Classic was originally started as a clone of sorts. While, I don't know the full story as it's been around for quite a while now, but the original programmer decided to make somethin new. He coded the engine based off the physics and engine of LoZ, but used all his own coding. From there he ripped the graphics and made the "1st.qst" From there ZC has evolved. It's much more than just the original game. We have tilesets based on many LoZ games, and also totally original ones. SAme goes for quests. After the first 2 official quests that are released with ZC, there are also hundreds of others made by others out there.

    After a week or two of asking questions and learning how to use Zquest, it's fairly quite simple. This is for those out there who want to put their ideas in to a complex engine to make their own game. You can start from scratch, make everything from story to graphics, or you can used the tried and true things, and focus on gameplay.

    While, this shouldn't have been Slashdot'ed in the first place, it's a bit late for that. I just wanted to let you know what's really going on behind the scenes, letting you know just what ZC is, and what it does.

    -IaN