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Halloween Pumpkin Carving

Following a previous story about a Dremel pumpkin carving kit, we've got a number of pumpkins to share with everyone. Leading off is Kathleen's Strong Bad. Next up is our first Cacodemon, followed by another Cacodemon and a Spider Mastermind. quan74 pointed us to The Pumkin Lady who has carved up heads of state and has a pattern for creating your own Tux. Kirk put together a tutorial for a 1upkin. And finally, droops sent us in the classic Jack-O-Linux which never gets old.

114 comments

  1. Scariest pumpkin ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    1. Re:Scariest pumpkin ever by beakerMeep · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dayum. As I clicked the link all I could think was, "No...no one would EVER actually carve... Oh God they did."

      --
      meep
    2. Re:Scariest pumpkin ever by empaler · · Score: 1

      It's not often I get to laugh out loud at things posted here... but this one got me...

    3. Re:Scariest pumpkin ever by DJDutcher · · Score: 1

      I'm a newbie. What's that supposed to be?

    4. Re:Scariest pumpkin ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't want to know. Seriously. You don't.

    5. Re:Scariest pumpkin ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      (Not a troll, this is an actual answer) http://www.goat.cx/. Not for the faint of heart.

    6. Re:Scariest pumpkin ever by The-Bus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When I saw the story I said to myself, "Huh, they didn't mention the Goatse Man pumpkin."

      How relieved I was to find it to be the first post as I scrolled down.

      I salute you, fellow goatsephiliac.

      --

      Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

    7. Re:Scariest pumpkin ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While that is one of the most wrong things I have ever seen done to a pumpkin, you have to admire the guy who did this. Not many people are willing to sacrifice their retinas for their art.

    8. Re:Scariest pumpkin ever by macfreak12 · · Score: 1

      http://chia.csumb.edu/~paul/gallery/view_album.php ?set_albumName=pumpkin pumpkin moding in action

  2. Pumpkin Pie: Best Desert in the World by d102804 · · Score: 1

    The best desert in the world is pumpkin pie. It is tasty and nutritious, being packed with beta carotene from the pumpkin.

  3. No, follow-up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    It mentions the earlier Dremel story... and Taco needed an excuse to post his wife's pumpkin or no sex until Thanksgiving.

    1. Re:No, follow-up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't that be a *good* thing. Haven't you seen pics of Sarcasta? She's nasty...

  4. My only chance on /. to make a Chester Alan Arthur by antifoidulus · · Score: 2, Funny

    joke.
    So I hear that the Chester Alan Arthur pumpkin requires over 80 candles, and you have to change the candles every few hours.

  5. The big chill. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What do you know FP, when I first get here. :)

    Anyway wouldn't a Dremel work better if you freeze the pumpkin first?

    Second which is the best Dremel to buy?

    1. Re:The big chill. by M-G · · Score: 1

      Anyway wouldn't a Dremel work better if you freeze the pumpkin first?

      Good question. We carved three pumpkins yesterday. It was the first time using the 'skinning' technique. One was the gargoyle-looking one from the Dremel site, and the others were Marvin the Martian and the Tazmanian Devil from elsewhere.

      In addition to using a Dremel, I also used some dental picks. The WB characters were a bit too detailed to get much use out of the Dremel, so they were mostly done with the picks. As I worked in an area where I needed a very narrow ridge of skin left, it was tough to be very precise, as that ridge would always flex. I was pondering then whether a frozen pumpking would work better.

      Second which is the best Dremel to buy?

      Depends on what you're doing. I bought a kit a few years back that included a variable speed tool, the flexible shaft attachment, and a bunch of bits in a case. Works for most of what I use it for, which is mainly the cutoff wheels, a sanding drum for the dogs' toenails, and now pumpking carving.

  6. Re:Pumpkin Pie: Best Desert in the World by Sensible+Clod · · Score: 0, Troll

    On what continent is this desert located?

    Actually, if it's so packed with food, how could it really be called a desert?

    Oh. You meant dessert?
    Okay. Whatever.

    --

    The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me
  7. Recipes for Pumpkin Pie by d102804 · · Score: 2, Informative

    You can use the innards from those carved-up pumpkins to make pumpkin pie. You can find a batch of recipes via Yahoo! Search.

  8. Re:Pumpkin Pie: Best Desert in the World by Average_Joe_Sixpack · · Score: 1

    I'm partial to the Sahara myself

  9. Re:Dupe by BACbKA · · Score: 2, Informative

    this time it's a different category, and more info. Also, with this one CmdrTaco has /.-ed his own wife! :-) (I'm unable to get through to sacasta.net at just 10 comments)...

    --

    VKh

  10. Jon-Voight-O-Lantern. by Animosity79 · · Score: 1

    Don't forget about the Jon-Voight-O-Lantern http://www.jimdrewes.com/comments.php?bid=415 It also has instructions on how to make the template using the Gimp.

  11. Re:Dupe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the fuck are you on about? The story you mentioned is linked in this story, and this story is essentially a follow-up to the previous story. Idiot.

  12. Is this necessary? by Saven+Marek · · Score: 0, Troll

    Do we really need to associate fre and OSS software with this level of paganism? Its bad enough when dad thinks were some kind of reactionary anarchists without also adding in halloween.

    1. Re:Is this necessary? by OS24Ever · · Score: 2, Informative
      Come on. Sure it has it's celtic roots but check this out:


      The true origins of Halloween lie with the ancient Celtic tribes who lived in Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Brittany. For the Celts, November 1 marked the beginning of a new year and the coming of winter. The night before the new year, they celebrated the festival of Samhain, Lord of the Dead. During this festival, Celts believed the souls of the dead--including ghosts, goblins and witches--returned to mingle with the living. In order to scare away the evil spirits, people would wear masks and light bonfires.

      When the Romans conquered the Celts, they added their own touches to the Samhain festival, such as making centerpieces out of apples and nuts for Pomona, the Roman goddess of the orchards. The Romans also bobbed for apples and drank cider--traditions which may sound familiar to you. But where does the Christian aspect of the holiday come into play? In 835, Pope Gregory IV moved the celebration for all the martyrs (later all saints) from May 13 to November 1. The night before became known as All Hallow's Even or "holy evening." Eventually the name was shortened to the current Halloween. On November 2, the Church celebrates All Souls Day.

      The purpose of these feasts is to remember those who have died, whether they are officially recognized by the Church as saints or not. It is a celebration of the "communion of saints," which reminds us that the Church is not bound by space or time.


      from The Saint Anthony Messenger
      --

      As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.

    2. Re:Is this necessary? by ScottSpeaks! · · Score: 1

      Do we really need to associate free and OSS software with this level of reactionism? It's bad enough when mommy thinks we're some kind of anti-American thought police without also dissing Halloween.

  13. WoW by eSavior · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Heres a link for the World of Warcraft pumpkin carving contest winners

  14. OK, who wants to take bets... by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 2, Funny

    Who wants to take bets on how long it takes Nintendo to send the 1upkin guy a cease-and-desist?

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    1. Re:OK, who wants to take bets... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want to place a bet.


      $50.00 on NEVER.


      Since I won't be around in NEVER, can I get my $50.00 now, and if Nintendo does send a cease-and-desist I promise to give it back.

  15. Re:Dupe by BurritoWarrior · · Score: 2, Informative

    Um, a dupe isn't a new story on the same subject, it's an identical story. (same link(s), etc.).

  16. Pumpkin as carved by squirrel by ctwxman · · Score: 5, Funny

    We put our pumpkin out uncarved. We were going to carve it, but a local squirrel decided to take care of it for us! Here's the photographic evidence http://www.geofffox.com/MT/images/nutti-goes-in.jp g

    1. Re:Pumpkin as carved by squirrel by wk633 · · Score: 1

      I'd like to know how slashdotting yourself compares to getting a google high rank (Ashlee Simpson) wrt your server load.

    2. Re:Pumpkin as carved by squirrel by ctwxman · · Score: 1

      I purposely linked to one very small file (about 8k). This is a slow day on Slashdot and not a particularly trying day on my server. So far, no problem. My Ashlee Simpson post received a lot more traffic. As far as I can tell, it was the first web posting after the SNL debacle (I was up and writing. Most newsrooms are non-staffed or understaffed at that time of day/week) which helped my Google ranking.

    3. Re:Pumpkin as carved by squirrel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should have shot the squirrel and left it in there, in the exact position the picture shows it in.

      You could then carve out a real mean and menacing pumpkin face, and at night you could set the squirrel's tail alight.

      Kids would love it!

  17. Gratuitous slashdotting joke by swordboy · · Score: 1, Funny

    So...

    To what does slashdotting a pumpking site amount?

    Smashing pumpkins!

    --

    Life is the leading cause of death in America.
  18. Re:Dupe by empaler · · Score: 1

    Maybe they'll start using webcache links now and again after this... ;)

  19. Re: Wow! by tekten · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Having nothing else to do, I'll use this opportunity to show off my pumpkin from last year.

  20. The Brother Chaps stencils... by Colz+Grigor · · Score: 4, Informative

    Perhaps this is where that Strong Bad pumpkin originated.

    The Brother Chaps rock!

    1. Re:The Brother Chaps stencils... by Ranger+Rick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The site's slashdotted now, so I can't see how good of a job they did, but the one I did from the stencil is reading... a-duh-email.

      --

      WWJD? JWRTFM!!!

  21. Tux-O-Lantern by linuxpyro · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I recently carved a Tux pumpkin. You can find a pic of it here (whatsmykarma.com).

    --
    Saying "I'll probably get modded down for this" in a post is the best way to get it modded up.
  22. are you on crack.. by Tracer_Bullet82 · · Score: 1

    or something?

    --


    Timang tinggi tinggi
    parang sudah asah
    alang alang mandi
    biar sampai basah
  23. Re:Pumpkin Pie: Best Desert in the World by tuxette · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not only is pumpkin pie tasty, the scent of pumpkin pie is an aphrodisiac for men (do a google search for 'pumpkin pie aprhrodisiac' or 'pumpkin pie aphrodisiac scent' for more info). So if I want to get some, I know what I have to bake ;-) Though it seems that the combination of pumpkin pie and lavender is thet most arousing. Heh...

    --
    People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
  24. Packed with? by murderlegendre · · Score: 2, Funny

    It is tasty and nutritious, being packed with beta carotene

    The notable exception being the afforementioned 'Scariest pumpkin', which is packed with something entirely different. Pray that it's flushable.

    --
    There's a Starman, waiting in the sky / He'd like to come and meet us, but he hasn't got the time.
  25. Re:Pumpkin Pie: Best Desert in the World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Around most guys, if you want to get some all you have to do is say "I want to get some" or pretty much anything at all, or nothing for that matter.

  26. Macolanterns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't forget about dorks that do macolanterns http://joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joystuff/macolanter ns.html

  27. OMG!! by jeephistorian · · Score: 4, Funny


    That pumpkin is eating a squirrel!!! How can you let that happen?!! Barbarians!!!

    __________________

    --
    Huh?
  28. The Jack-O-Linux by KublaiKhan · · Score: 2, Funny

    ....is a pretty good idea, actually. You can assemble it for long enough for a halloween kinda LAN party, and then after, depending on your processor, you could have an already cooked pumpkin for baking purposes.

    --
    In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
    A stately pleasure dome decree
    1. Re:The Jack-O-Linux by niteice · · Score: 1

      It's cool until you come into work one day and... "Dude, your computer started to rot."

      --
      ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
  29. Nice 'lanterns by centauri · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Hey, Kathleen, that's a nice, bright jack-o-lantern you've got there."

    "That's not a jack-o-lantern, that's my server."

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Durga.
  30. Road Flares Rock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On the last pumpkin story, I read about a guy using road flares to illuminate a pumpkin. I took the advice and it was awesome. Great for contests...

  31. Re:Pumpkin Pie: Best Desert in the World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anything at all works. A few weeks ago a good friend of mine visited me, cried about her relationship, tried hooking me up with her best friend, and then rode me.
    Very odd experience...

  32. Just imagine .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a beowulf cluster ...er, patch of the Jack-O-Linuxes ... Linuxi ...
    y'know, looking back at this, it's good I posted AC.

  33. maybe i'm missing the point but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...I let my wife do the pumpkin carving around here.

  34. Re:Pumpkin Pie: Best Desert in the World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Distilled water is an aphrodisiac.. or so says the ads in the back of the latest issue of Popular Science. Speaking of aphrodisiacs, if you are looking for some distilled water aphrodisiac, I'll sell you some for only $29.95 an ounce!

  35. even better, a pumpkin that can SPRING INTO ACTION by mincus · · Score: 1

    Id rather have everyones favorite poisonous potato with this pattern.

  36. Vomiting Pumpkin by Karellen+!-P · · Score: 5, Funny
    1. Re:Vomiting Pumpkin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a college student, how clever!

    2. Re:Vomiting Pumpkin by Reziac · · Score: 1

      As the image slowly loads over my sick dialup, the first thing I see is what LOOKS like pumpkin goo and seeds being blown out of the stem on top... and I'm thinkin', "Man, that pumpkin musta drank some hot shit..." ... and when it finished loading, we can see the hangover :)

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    3. Re:Vomiting Pumpkin by iamlucky13 · · Score: 1

      Excellent.

      Last year, one of the guys a couple doors down did one (this is on a college campus). He set it on top of a bunch of empty pizza boxes and scattered beer cans all over for effect. It was great.

  37. Montreal Botanical garden carving contest by scattol · · Score: 1

    The Montreal Botanical garden has an annual pumpking carving contest. You can see the results here. If you are in the area, you might prefer seeing them live.

  38. Squirrels + Seeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One thing's for certain: you will still be pulling pumpkin vines out of the ground a year from now.

  39. Google Halloween by aacool · · Score: 3, Funny

    The Google guys had their own Halloween - http://www.google.com/googleblog/2004/10/boo-who_3 0.html Not sure if there was pumpkin pie

  40. Ahh Halloween where children begging is ok by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll


    what a strange world we live in when children begging at peoples door is socially acceptable
    but if they where begging in a town any other day they would be arrested

    i wonder how the homeless feel about it ?

    1. Re:Ahh Halloween where children begging is ok by ari_j · · Score: 2, Funny

      i wonder how the homeless feel about it ?

      In short, they feel well-fed but sick from all the sugar.

  41. Crude but effective GWB pumpkin by MonkeyBoyo · · Score: 2, Funny

    here with bonus spittle in corner of mouth.

  42. No Chuck? by audacity242 · · Score: 1

    Anyone got any BSD related pumpkin carving patterns?

  43. Re:Dupe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess they left some links out this time, because these links feature goatse pumpkins now... I guess that is what you get from running your site on ASP... (... apparently, you don't need a dremel to drill into dremel's web site...)

  44. Dremel got goatse'd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    http://www.dremel.com/productdisplay/tool_template 2.asp?SKU=764-01

    1. Re:Dremel got goatse'd by tiwason · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I just noticed that too... what the hell. someone must have hacked dremel.. too funny

  45. Re:My only chance on /. to make a Chester Alan Art by Dr.+Cody · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can somebody please explain this? I won't be able to face myself in the mirror tomorrow morning if you don't. Or, even if you do.

  46. Re:Pumpkin Pie: Best Desert in the World by JAgostoni · · Score: 1

    Uh ... speaking as a man (lemme check ... yeah I'm a guy) I can attest to say that any food smell is an aphrodisiac ... hell, a swift wind or a "honey, let's go" is all I ever need.

  47. A little off topic but by DrJonesAC2 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Since this seems to be the only Halloween story on /. today I will post anyway.
    I live in Utah and, mostly because of the sever religious influence here we actually celebrated Halloween yesterday. Does this happen in other states as well or is Utah the odd man out on this?

    1. Re:A little off topic but by Samus · · Score: 1

      Not statewide but my little town in OH did yesterday as well.

      --
      In Republican America phones tap you.
    2. Re:A little off topic but by evilmuffins · · Score: 1

      It's not halloween a day before, it's mormon halloween, mormon halloween rocks, it just means more candy!

  48. Max Payne Pumpkin by Max_Abernethy · · Score: 0

    Max payne pumpkin, a couple days old and starting to cave in.

  49. Oh, no! by ggvaidya · · Score: 1

    He slashdotted Kathleen!

    (imagines the after-dinner conversation tonight)

  50. Re:Oh for goodness sakes! by ggvaidya · · Score: 1
    Grow up and get a life you loosers!

    Those who do have to turn in their Slashdot user id's at the door. :P

  51. Crazed pumpkin madness, and my own effort by elfurbe · · Score: 1

    This Guy makes some crazy pumpkins, including a Jack-o-Carrie with pumping blood.

    My Own Creation is, literally, the Pumpkin King.

  52. Shameless self promotion by Skrectumis · · Score: 1

    Hey, why not right? Not exactally what i would call finish quality, but it was my first try.

  53. For all you MSDN fans... by AdamBa · · Score: 1
    (and I know you are out there) here is the Channel 9 Guy (from Channel 9) on a pumpkin.

    - adam

  54. Dremel was hacked by gray_eminence · · Score: 5, Informative

    I just went to the Dremel kit page and it looks as though someone hacked their site and uploaded that picture.

    http://www.dremel.com/productdisplay/tool_templa te 2.asp?SKU=764-01

    1. Re:Dremel was hacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This appears to be the work of the "Gay Ni**er Association of America", a bunch of homosexual black trolls who post spam and porno links on slashdot and then laugh about it when people accidently click.

      These people are pretty disturbing and disgusting and frankly this is the lowest thing I think they have done ever. I am currently sitting in their irc channel on irc.gnaa.us collecting IP addresses of people to send to the authorities or at least to their ISPs to hopefully get these script kiddies taken care of.

    2. Re:Dremel was hacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL LAUGHING OUT LOUD HAHAHAHAHA
      LOL LAUGHING OUT LOUD HAHAHAHAHA
      LOL LAUGHING OUT LOUD HAHAHAHAHA

      Important Stuff

      # Please try to keep posts on topic.
      # Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads.
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      # Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)

    3. Re:Dremel was hacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has anyone informed Dremel yet, to allow them to take down the page?

      I would, but it might come better from someone who is a sysadmin or something.

      I hope they catch the prats who did this - that could cost them some business, and a lot of goodwill.

    4. Re:Dremel was hacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A20210/plp56/
      http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A20210/plp56/

  55. Dremel site hacked with Pumpkinse?? by aardvarko · · Score: 1
  56. What about the Maddox-o-Lantern?? by crimson30 · · Score: 1

    Best pumpkin carving in the universe?

  57. Wish granted. by Mmm+coffee · · Score: 1
    From the DOOM pumpkins page:
    Linking, Mirroring...

    We'd seriously like it if people could mirror and link to this page and not just the images! Definitally help get us some publicity if you can!!! We appreciate it!
    From the be careful what you wish for dept...
  58. Hitchhiker & Space Invader by mcramer · · Score: 1

    My brother-in-law and I carved a Space Invader and an intergalactic Hitchhiker, respectively.

  59. XP SP 2 ANNOUNCES VICTORY OVER LASTMEASURE by bit+trollent · · Score: 1

    WINDOWS XP SERVICE PACK 2 ANNOUNCES VICTORY OVER LASTMEASURE

    Sweet. Used to have to copy and paste possible tubgirl pages to Opera. Internet Explorer's new popup blocker has fixed this. I wonder if they still got my clipboard. Does anyone know if Opera also reveals what is in your clipboard to Lastmeasure? Not that it matters this time as all they got was the url to some very ugly mp3player/sunglasses.
    http://www.oakley.com/catalog/eyewear/thump/

  60. iPod carved into a pumpkin by blakespot · · Score: 1
    An iPod "hacked" into the face of a pumpkin..

    http://www.ipodhacks.com/ipod_o_lantern.html

    ...as mentioned earlier here on /.


    blakespot

    --
    -- Heisenberg may have slept here.
    iPod Hacks.com
  61. Re:Dupe by Sensible+Clod · · Score: 0

    Yeah. I just figured out this isn't quite a dupe. Sorry. Unfortunately, I don't think this apology is going to help me any.

    --

    The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me
  62. Re:My only chance on /. to make a Chester Alan Art by lukestuts · · Score: 2, Funny

    All the jokes are automatically explained to subscribers 10 minutes before anyone else finds them funny.

  63. Re:Oh for goodness sakes! by ari_j · · Score: 1

    I'd rather act like a kid than spell like one.

  64. The jack-o-linux would've been much scarier by BeneathTheVeil · · Score: 1

    ...if it was running Windows ME.

    Just imagine the horror... you go to turn on your Jack-O-Linux, and *GASP* there's Windows ME, staring back at you.

    I'm pretty sure there's a Twilight Zone episode like that.

  65. Congatulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A goatse link that gets modded up +1 Informative.

    I know your answer was honest, but Goatse being informative struck me as funny.

  66. It's Walky! Pumpkins by puetzk · · Score: 1

    Since I carved two fairly rad pumpkins this year, I guess I'll throw out a link :-)

    Both are based on prints from http://itswalky.com/.

    http://zoo.nightstar.net/viewtopic.php?t=10011&sid =f8b25c8cc851ba2e69b93ba3c3470767

    --
    The Matrix is going down for reboot now! Stopping reality: OK. The system is halted.
  67. Re:Pumpkin Pie: Best Desert in the World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're really fat, aren't you?

  68. wtf? by TCaM · · Score: 1

    http://www.dremel.com/productdisplay/tool_template 2.asp?SKU=764-01&Color=99CCFF

  69. 1upkin? by Fenris+Ulf · · Score: 1

    1up mushrooms are green, not red as described in the article.

  70. Now here's a well done pumpkin... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  71. Presidential Faces by BcNexus · · Score: 1

    Did anyone else notice the Pumpkin Lady cheated by carving on artificial pumpkins?!?

    C'mon, that's not the spirit of pumpkin carving!

  72. rotten.com has the best ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  73. Jini Pumpkin by catstack · · Score: 1

    The Jini Pumpkin as posted to the Jini User's Group. By the way Steve if your server gets slashdotted, sorry about that. ;-)

    But really, you've got to expect this kind of thing when you hand out Dum-Dums to the Trick-or-Treaters on Halloween....

  74. Re:Pumpkin Pie: Best Desert in the World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pumpkin pie may taste like sewer rat, but I wouldn't eat the filthy mother fu%#*r.

    Oh wait, wasn't it "Sewer rat may taste like...."?