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Australian Counter Strike Shooters
jaronc writes "News.com.au are reporting an Australian court has been told that two men dressed as characters from 'Counter Strike' shot and killed a man during a Sydney home invasion in 2002. Let the blaming begin......"
At least it wasn't a GTA re-enactment, that woulda been much uglier... unless of course the CTs didn't difuse the bomb.
You're nothing; like me.
So this means they were wearing either army fatigues or a shirt with glasses. I fail to see how that's related specifically to CS, unless they went around screaming out "fire in the hole" and "it's gonna blow!".
Even assuming that they became unhinged from playing too much CS, doesn't mean that we should ban it. People did go crazy and kill people before computer games existed...
(This is still tragic, however, and I don't intend to lessen the tragedy.)
www.fearthecow.net
they think that violence can be blamed on videogames
as if before videogames, there were no violence
the concept also undermines personal accountability: "the devil made me do it"
if you pick up a gun and shoot someone in real life, you are 100% to blame, it doesn't matter if you have been playing fps games for 10 months straight, it just plain doesn't matter
if you believe in the concept of personal accountability, you can not blame the media for anything
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Some guys dressed as the Mario Brothers come to fix the pipes.
Let the blaming begin.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
How can you assume that they were dressed up as counterstrike terrorists/counter-terrorists? Dressing up as Goblez from Final Fantasy IV is one thing, but a terrorist/counter-terrorist is a common real-life/movies/video games thing, and it can't be narrowed down to just Counterstrike.
If the accused had dressed up as characters from the Clue(TM) boardgame, would boardgames be blamed, and why or why not?
~UP
Eat the Path.
Video games really are responsible for making the tiny majority of people without sufficient grip on reality to not go out and shoot people, go out and shoot people!
How the hell did they get weapons though? It's not like you can walk into a shop and press 'b', and i'm sure that l33t h4x0rz1ng the shopkeeper is gonna get you funny looks and nothing more.
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
Except that the killers were dressed as Mario and Luigi.
Art imitating life imitating art...
Counterstrike 'characters' are just people dressed in common attire that you would most likely see someone on a killing spree wearing...
Now did these guys play counterstrike?
As for let the blaming begin It amazes me how quick people are to strike down something they have no comprehension of.
For one thing, you strike down all media blame of computer games prompting violent behaviour (and films etc) and you simply pass it off as 1+1=3 in thier minds because you play violent games and you don't murder people.
That doesn't mean to say there is or isn't a connection, and there are no conclusive studies that some people who are a little socially eclipsed that are affected by continuous and sporting presentation of killing.
Now I am not saying either way, but I am not sarcastically throwing down the gauntlet for possible ridicule either.
These people must have been capable of this murder prior, and the fact that somehow (I do not know how, unless they jumped aorund whilst firing saying "I pwn you b1tch3s!" like most server players - or used an aim bot) the relationship between clothing attire and a computer game (shakey to me) just muddies the fact that someone got shot, and what was the motive for these people.
One day people might start trying to use computer games as a defence... or worse, it may be the cause, we do not know yet, but the portrayal of real violence and death in italy (see Gladitor flick) is sickening, and we are on the verge of that popularisation of gore and death (see Bad Boys 2, which was a shit aweful film for gratuitous violence, to an almost comedic extent)
I actually had flinching urges to try car jacking after playing GTA2 for 48 hours solid (better than studying at the time). Maybe I am weak.
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
Ah, so you see guys like this only in computer games like CS?
I don't see where the game comes in. If one wants to play the blamegame, why not blame a movie or a book, for instance?
The owls are not what they seem
I blame Satan. Granted I do blame him for most things. That guy's an asshat.
A Multiplayer Strategy Game for Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux
Sig SG-550 Sniper. god damn campers
I didn't realise Counter Strike uniforms had those wide bimmed hats with the corks on strings.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
I wonder, who overplayed CS: two guys, dressed like freaks and shooting at people, or those who identified them as CS characters?
May Peace Prevail On Earth
Maybe it was just a rumor, but I do remember hearing reports of kids jumping on their cats and wondering why they didn't respawn after leaving and reentering the room....
Of course, these reports were back in the early 90s when there were fewer FPSs to blame everything on.
Rumor has it he was camping.
Some posters are doubting whether the alleged perps were really dressed specifically as CS characters, and not as generic swat team members or terrorists. I'd give them the benefit of a doubt for the time being, but keep in mind that just because the linked article didn't say what the supporting evidence is doesn't mean there isn't any.
There is one small clue, however. Look at his name. Is Sophear Em really his birth name?
Rome wasn't bilked in a day.
I heard that there's a bunch of people who after playing too much "America's Army", stormed through this country in the middle east, killing thousands of people for nothing more than oil!
Forget Video Games. The american military causes violence, let's ban that instead.
Well reports are coming in that the accused pressed B-4-1, followed by B-6 and B-8-2 immediately prior to the attack.
Looks like a plain case of open murder.
Too bad about the wife. Her husband was murdered and she became a widow.
The 'Counterstrike' angle was just used by the killer(s) as a disguise.
Some people cannot or will not separate reality from virtual reality in video games.
Yeah, such games can be (great) stress relievers but when you start feeling compulsion to do deadly stuff from the games in 'real life', you should think about stopping playing that particular game and play something more abstract like the (in)famous game TETRIS where nothing is killed or hurt in the game. Other alternatives would be non-violent sports games like golf, or board games. I would suggest pinball games but most of those have violent content or themes in them--however small.
Again, it is all left up to individual and what they want to do in such situations--I am only making non-violent suggestions.
PS: I am surprised the court case is still ongoing nearly nearly 3 years after crime.
I thought Australia was supposed to be some kind of gunless utopia.
Where'd they get the guns to do this?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Well because
tv makes people kill people.
video games make people kill people.
rap music makes people kill people.
the only thing that is safe for our children is books... on something completely unreleated: has anyone read that book by Tom Clancy were that one guy crashed that plane into the whitehouse? that so cool and impossible to emulate.
it was good luck that they dressed as counter-strikers, it will be much easier to prove they were "extremely" premeditated in their crime. counter-strike should get credit for help nailing these kooks not blamed for corrupting an already crazed couple of human beings.
A man who was dressed like Kerry killed someone. Now the government examines if the Democrats should be forbidden.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
I think what many people fail to see here, is that what violent games create and feed is a culture of violence. You say its sport? Entertainment? Perhaps... But ultimatly, how does a game where you imitate the actions of a commando going for the "kill" help our society be a healthy, happier place? Do games like CS/DoomIII/Unreal etc, contribute?
/. readers are gamers. But surely there must be something true in the above to some of us here
Yes, this is an anon post. So flame/mod down at will because I am sure a great deal of
Its more likely a tactical move by the defence in setting things up.... later on when it goes to trial they'll can the game as an excuse..... In years gone by people just used to claim insanity.....
I mean.... they didn't even tag the ground!!!
sig's are for weenies
Yeah, but you're obviously biased.
Seriously though, are we supposed to be impressed by a freshman english paper that you can't find?
Actions influence thoughts. Thoughts influence actions. And you can add in speech, as well. This doesn't mean that X hours of CS will make you a murderer; it doesn't turn you into a zombie. But, IMO, violence begets violence, whether it is abstract or concrete, real or imaginary.
There is always the matter of degree, and because most of us can distinguish between a game and reality, the influence of the game is greatly lessened. Throw in other mitigating factors like the fact that playing these games often relieves stress and is fun, and the net effect may even be positive. (I stress the word 'may').
I make this argument mostly philosophically. And I don't necessarily practice what I preach, as I like to play such games when I get the chance. I just think that the position that there is _no_ influence or correlation is naive or ignorant. But most of all, it is self-serving.
Rome wasn't bilked in a day.
does the violent movie turn a normal guy into a killer?
or does the violent movie placate the violent tendencies in us all?
does the pornography turn the normal guy into a rapist?
or does pornography take antisocial urges and empty them in a magazine instead of a real woman?
so i take your "media influences" and throw it right back at you: if media does influence, then it takes our violent and antisocial sexual urges and provides a harmless outlet for them
even if, even if you somehow show me some normal guy who shoots someone because of a videogame or a movie, which i don't even believe, i can still show you ten guys who would be shooting real people if they weren't doing it in a videogame
so you want a more peaceful society?
more pornography and violent videogames- I AM NOT JOKING!
human nature is not a picture of innocence that media comes along and warps... human nature is a seething cauldron of sex and violence that media placates
got it?
if you honestly believe plays ANY hands in making people violent or sexually depraved, then you are trying to tell me that before media: before videogames, movies, records, books... that we were somehow peaceful and loving
bullshit!
violent movies and videogames and pornography prevents thousands of murders and rapes every year
i sincerely, wholeheartedly believe that
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
every day, theres hundreds of lethal incidents worldwide, caused by people under alcohol influence
shouldnt it be banned first then?
If they hadn't spray tagged the walls "Pwn3d by Sophear" :-)
"as if before videogames, there were no violence"
Certainly in the UK, before videogames it was "Video Nasties" that was corrupting the youth into violent deeds. Today, nobody seems to care that kids watch "Zombie Blood Massacre III". I'd imagine in a decade there will be some other piece of technology being blamed by some for the downfall of society.
Well, if you assume that a world in which I don't beat my sister round the head with heavy objects is healthier...
Computer games have saved me on two occasions when I was literally seeing red. It doesn't happen much but, when it does, shooting the proverbial out of a terrorist bot is about the best therapy I've come across. For comparison, the time I didn't manage to get to a computer resulted in a big hole in the plasterboard, which was certainly not healthy for my fist.
I have a very irritating sister. Thanks to computer games, this state of affairs continues.
For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!
Errrm, why does the article stat that this happened in 2002? A murder trial that takes so long is suspicious, isn't it?
...I better go play a mindless game of CS. Cya!
Cheers
Stor
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
Some guys dressed up like characters from America's Army flew halfway around the world and killed several thousand Iraqi's.
Oh wait...
The Flemington Markets (where the victim worked) have always attracted a criminal element, as silly as it sounds more than a few of the produce stall vendors there have a connection to organised crime (note that in this city "organised" crime is way down the ladder in severity from the American Mob.)
I live in out in the midst of all this, and have seen first hand the way these guys operate. Make eye contact and they will literally go berserker on you. I watched three carloads of these guys stomp the living shit out of a scrawny 19 or 20 year old guy because he told them to "fuck off" after they threw fireworks at his girlfriend. I've seen brawls outside my apartment that could be called small riots and I've been attacked myself after one of these macho dickheads sexually assaulted my girlfriend in front of me. One new years eve I was in a crowd at Darling Harbor counting down at midnight, right on the stroke of midnight a gang of these guys linked arms, charged the crowd and just started wailing on anyone they could catch. Minutes later they'd fled. It's not politically correct to identify a gang by it's ethnicity but a large degree of their behavior arises out of environmental factors, especially their treatment of women and their gang-culture of machismo-on-steroids violence. Drive by shootings are a new phenomenon in this country and nearly all of them in this city are internecine warfare between rival groups of Lebanese and Arab young men, typically over the drug trade. In 1998 a police station was shot up with a fully automatic weapon.
Which brings me to my point that if they were dressed in paramilitary gear it was probably more to do with that than any exposure to Counterstrike. This wasn't some random assault by kids "corrupted" by some computer game, it was more than likely a gang reprisal where the assailants were known to the victim.
The rise of Lebanese gangs in Sydney
Sydney police besieged in their own station by Lebanese gang
Serial gang rapes in Sydney
Bilal Skaf, the leader of the rapists converted to radical Islam in jail and has openly avowed his support of Al Qaeda and sent death threats to the judge and witnesses at his trial.
So what we obviously need is the next medium so we have something new to blame all violence on. I suggest iPods: All that music all the time, the glare of the white headphones, and now the thousands and thousands of pornographic images that teenagers carry around with them everywhere just have to have a bad influence. When will Australia finally live up to its moral responsibilty and ban them? And now that Bush has been reelected, shouldn't Ashcroft finally do something to save American's children from Apple's murderous grip?
I always thought Steve Jobs is smiling just a little to brightly when he holds up those things...
If they ban Counterstrike, then the terrorists have won, literally!!
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
Let me give you an example. Suppose some japanese game had its screens translated to english with bad grammar. Would you have geeks start spouting that bad grammar? I don't think.....oh wait...
In a strange twist, it was reported that the man killed was dressed like Gordon Freeman.
The problem with almost all of these tests is that they generally only catch sociopaths, not psychopaths owing to that most of them can be gamed fairly readily and the nature of psychopathology is such that they're well suited to fooling evaluators. But nevertheless, we always want to feel that there's some foolproof way to detect menaces to our life and health, so we'll always want to believe in such tests. Just witness the recent email forward that contained a quick psycho test.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
two men dressed as characters from 'Counter Strike'
They're called Special Forces in some countries and Terrorists in others, unless they're talking about the Chickens, then thats just bizzar.
"What do you mean you have no ice? Do you expect me to drink this coffee hot?" - Random Customer, Clerks
This crap happens because it's easier to blame video games than kids.
Take the legal drinking age for your locality, that's set in place because it's easy to test and find out if someone is of a certain age, just math. In an ideal world, a persons habits and character would determine if they should drink. If someone will drink responsibly at age 16, why make them wait till 18 or 21? Likewise, there are people that are over the legal drinking age that are still too immature and let alcohol run their lives but by law, they can still buy alcohol. All anyone can do is give them an AA flyer and ask them to take time out of their schedule to remember the next meeting, physically drive to the meeting and suffer through the awkwardness of admitting you're an alcoholic.
The legal system blames the video games because it's easy to convince parents video games are bad because parents aren't going to blame their own kids for violence they may create, they'd rather blame something or someone that cannot defend themselves. To make headway in hedging violent video games to kids, it's easy to slap a violence rating on a game and make every retailer ask for ID to anyone buying the game than it is to perform intense psychological tests to see if that person understands the difference between reality and fantasy, and if they will or will not take cues from videogames.
When I'm a parent, I know my kid is going to be exposed to things I wouldn't, but I'm going to make sure they can put the things into the right perspective and let them make good decisions for themselves.
In the police report, the victims family commented that one of the suspects started firing at the victim through a wall, as if they could see through it. while the other suspect just sat behind a crate in the living room.
There's an online Hartman Value Profile test/calculator at:
http://www.qis.net/~jschmitz/hvp/test1.html
you have to kill somebody first.