Ham and Software - Communities of Creativity?

lgreco asks: "I've been thinking about the similarities between the community of early ham radio operators and software developers. Both communities produced a lot of useful technologies that found applications beyond the scope of a 'just a hobby'. Ham radio operators built their own equipment and experimented with modulation and propagation techniques. The results of their efforts today are used in a variety of radio communication applications, from cell phones to marine radios. Similarly, hackers developed concepts of computing that are now universally accepted tools of productivity. Both communities share an enthusiasm for technical creativity and up until recently there was even some overlap between the two groups. Are there any interesting stories about the creativity of either groups (that relate to the other group perhaps) that should be recorded and documented?"

Comments

Topic...

[Demanche]

Made me hungry .. then I realized I wasn't on a food site :

Re:Topic...

[Crash6-24]

There are about 49 different kinds of amateur radio out there with fanatics for each. The 1 thing that hams have in common is the desire to be able to talk to someone else, anywhere else, at any time, despite what nature, Murphy, and anyone else does. Sort of like being connected 24/7. Some hams are "appliance operators" who just use the radio - other like to delve in to the innards and debate the advantages of using a .12uH inductor to replace the stock .10uH to lessen the noise floor.
I was at a seminar a couple of years ago where the hams were bouncing signals off Mt. Rainier so they could get line-of-sight communication between Ellensburg and Seattle over the Cascade mountains. They were using elaborate techniques to pick out a signal 10 dB below the noise level. They used signal processing, a knowledge of RF propagation, and computer power to get their message through. Admittedly the baud rate was about .01 but they did connect.
There is a terrific overlap between the hams and the software people...

Out of the loop

[AndroidCat]

and up until recently there was even some overlap between the two groups.

I didn't get the memo. When did the split occur?

Re:Out of the loop

[n8ur]

Yeah, that struck me as ill-informed.

There are more than a few well-respected hackers (in the good sense of the word) are hams, and there's a lot of software development going on in ham radio.

In particular, ham operators are doing lots of work with new digital modes made possible by using the sound card + PC as a powerful DSP platform. There's a lot of good stuff going on there.

Blatant plug -- I'm president of TAPR, which is a group that's promoting computer-related R&D in the ham radio community. Along with the ARRL (the US national ham group), we sponsor an annual Digital Communications Conference where papers are presented on all sorts of new uses of technology in ham radio.

PS -- for the hams here who may not be familiar, TAPR is not significantly focused on packet radio these days; we're doing lots of other stuff related to digital communications.

Re:Out of the loop

[josecanuc]

One split was somewhere in the DOS 3.x world, where many ham operators now reside. Another split hit around Windows 95.

There's a lot of good software coming out now that works on Win2k and WinXP, since we've all figured out how to access hardware directly.

There's a small community that prefers Linux, but it always seems that there's a much larger quantity of ham-related software for Windows.

That said, Linux ham software works well and covers just about any function you could want. The hot thing today is soundcard-based digital modes followed by serial-port radio control (adjusting tuning, bands, transmitting by serial commands).

But you will still find a lot of high quality, oft-updated DOS-based software for Ham use -- it just works.

Note also that Ham equipment makers and experimenters appear reluctant to dump RS232 for USB, though there are some strides being made by individual kit-makers. Drivers are the main stumbling block, I think. There's just so many different drivers and USB-serial adapters out there and some allow direct-like control of the various pins and some assume that you only want to use serial for sending bytes. But Hams use the handshaking pins independently for various tasks.

Re:Out of the loop

[Tenebrious1]

I didn't get the memo. When did the split occur?

Well, there's was split per se, but a huge rift exists. The "software developer" side blossomed in the past few years to include anyone who did anything with "code", using the term lightly. Most of the "software developers" I know have never stepped inside a Radio Shack, much less wielded a soldering iron.

Re:Out of the loop

[AndroidCat]

Back in university ('81), hanging around VE2CUA was the best place to catch the overlap between the hams and hackers--especially packet radio since a number of the pioneers (VE2PY) hung out there from time to time. What I learned about data packets came in quite useful later. (And watching "live" Slow Scan TV Voyager pictures from Saturn via JPL was pretty cool pre-Internet.)

Re:Out of the loop

[AndroidCat]

Does Radio Shack still sell soldering irons? The last time I looked most of the stuff I used to get there like wire-wrap and cases had all but disappeared.

Re:Out of the loop

[confused one]

No self respecting Ham radio operator would set foot inside a Radio Shack.

Re:Out of the loop

[Hognoxious]

Does Radio Shack still sell soldering irons?

Don't know, but in the US they sell something they call "sautéing irons". You could maybe use one of those.

Re:Out of the loop

[KD5YPT]

There was never a "split". It just that in the past, softwares and HAM radio didn't have much in common. Only until recently the HAM operators and software engineers began to find ways to combine the two. Several combination I've seen are.

1. Automated Morse-code sender and decoder.
2. Antenna control (used when doing a HAM satellite bounce)
3. Picture transmission (different color use different band, so you hear this odd static. Since by law you can't encrypt it, no porn).
4. Radio mail (like e-mail, except with much more error tolerance capability.)
5. Radio chat (think chatroom).
6. Short telephone call (by law, you can't hog the band space, forgot what the definitions are).

Re:Out of the loop

[SillyNickName4me]

> But you will still find a lot of high quality, oft-updated DOS-based software for Ham use -- it just works.

Heh, the last thing I had connected to a ham radio here was one of my C64s.. ah well, guess its telling for how logn I have been out of the loop with HAM more then anything I guess.

Re:Out of the loop

[BlueStraggler]

Given that ham radio predates computer hacking by half a century, I'd say the split has always existed. Commonalities in the two cultures have drawn it together in some ways, but they never merged.

My grandfather was "radio hacking" in the 1920s. He told a funny story where he "accidentally" took out a commercial transmission while playing with some homemade hardware as a teen. Sounds a little like website defacing to me, but 80 years before the computer kids were doing it. His hobby grew to the point where he was hired as the communications engineer for a huge mining and resources company that had to manage communication lines right into the Arctic. By 1937 he had developed a portable voice radio that could be carried and used in bush camps by operators who didn't know morse code - arguably the first walkie-talkie. Sounds a little like the early PCs to me, but 40 years before the computer kids were doing it. His employer donated his services to the war effort in 1939, and he modified the walkie talkie into a military tool that filtered out battle noises and had signal scrambling to prevent eavesdropping. Sounds like error correcting, encrypted communications to me, but 50 years before the computer kids were doing it.

So yeah, there are similarities, but the hams were there way before we were. Most of the hams who pioneered the field are now dead and gone, whereas most of the computer pioneers are alive and well, and still debating who gets credit for what. The links between the fields that are obvious now only came about after many decades of convergence.

Re:Out of the loop

[dougmc]

Does Radio Shack still sell soldering irons? Yes. They also sell electronic components -- not a huge selection, but they do still have the basics.

Re:Out of the loop

[Doctor Memory]

Actually, the one near me has a refreshingly large selection of "actual" electronic stuff (resistors, capacitors, soldering irons, perf and copper-clad board, etc). In fact, I just bought a rectifier there to fix the power supply of my Ten-Tec Corsair.

Back when I lived in Portland, though, I would have agreed with you. It was all cell phones, DVD players and toys. The only radio-type things they had were scanners and those Grundig hand-cranked shortwave sets.

Re:Out of the loop

[dougmc]

No self respecting Ham radio operator would set foot inside a Radio Shack.

Spoken like a true non-ham.

Granted, Radio Shack hardly lives up to it's name anymore (unless cell phones qualify, and they sort of do, but not really), but they do still have things that are useful to hams. Basic components (generally overpriced, but if all you need is two resistors, you don't want to order it), and some other stuff like power supplies and the like.

They do also still carry a useful selection of things like RF connectors and coax. They even still have some ham equipment like antennas and the like -- usually on clearance, and quite cheap :)

For the record, I'm AD5RH, and I check the local Radio Shack on a regular basis. Mostly I'm looking for clearance stuff, but I do occasionally buy components and the like too.

Re:Out of the loop

[Enigma_Man]

C'mon, at 8 PM when you just need a spool of wire NOW, the rad-sack will suffice. It's also funny to give them fake names when they ask at the register.

-Jesse

Re:Out of the loop

[dougmc]

It just that in the past, softwares and HAM radio didn't have much in common. Only until recently the HAM operators and software engineers began to find ways to combine the two.

I disagree completely. Hams have been using computers to enhance hamming for as long as hams have had computers. Grab a 20 year old ARRL Handbook -- you'll find mentions of computers being used for lots of things. You'll even find BASIC programs to do stuff ...

As for your list of combinations, none of these is new -- all of these things have been done for at least 10 years. (I guess it depends on how you define `only recently' ...)

Picture transmission (different color use different band, so you hear this odd static. Since by law you can't encrypt it, no porn).

Different band? I guess if you're trying to obfuscate things, you could use multiple bands, but the law doesn't let you really do that either. And anything obscene is not permitted, as you know ...

5. Radio chat (think chatroom).

psk31 is relatively new, but people have been doing packet chats for at least 10 years, probably 20 years.

6. Short telephone call (by law, you can't hog the band space, forgot what the definitions are).

The law doesn't say you can't hog the bandspace. It says you have to share it. Not quite the same thing.

AD5RH

Re:Out of the loop

[operagost]

The main problem is that a standard for a "Generic" USB device was never created.

Re:Out of the loop

[AndroidCat]

Bwahaha! They stopped asking for names a least a couple years ago. When did you last need a spool of wire? :)

Re:Out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

Picture transmission (different color use different band, so you hear this odd static. Since by law you can't encrypt it, no porn). Different band? I guess if you're trying to obfuscate things, you could use multiple bands, but the law doesn't let you really do that either. And anything obscene is not permitted, as you know ...

I think that was meant to read as "band = scanline" not "20 meters for blue and 40 meters for red"...

Also don't forget about Software Defined Radio -- lots of hams doing SDR stuff now. http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuradio/

Alex / AB2RC

Re:Out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think that's really a valid reason. Having read much of the USB 1.1 spec myself, and also having delved into USB device class documentation, I'll say you can probably find a device class that will satisfy just about any need you have. It just might take a lot of reading.

Re:Out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't buy from radio shack, and I don't need to order online either. Perhaps your town doesn't have a real electronics shop?

Re:Out of the loop

[dougmc]

Perhaps your town doesn't have a real electronics shop?

My town is Austin, TX. We have various Radio Shacks, Altex and Frys. And there's a ham radio shop.

Frys has big gaps in what they carry (they don't carry many components, but they do have some.) Altex doesn't carry much at all anymore beyond computers. The ham radio shop doesn't really carry components. That leaves ... Radio Shack. (which doesn't carry much, but they do fill in some of the Frys gaps.)

I don't buy from radio shack, and I don't need to order online either.

How nice for you. I don't feel like moving, so I go to Radio Shack occasionally. And I don't think that makes me less of a man :)

Re:Out of the loop

[Deadstick]

When the hackers refused to institute a rule requiring novices to learn COBOL before being allowed to write C.

rj

Re:Out of the loop

[Short Circuit]

When I was in middle school, I subscribed to the Digi-Key catalog by mail just because there was a lot of fascinating stuff to see...everything from connectors and cables to semiconductor devices to embedded computers to prototyping tools and software.

You can get their catalog in PDF format here.

Re:Out of the loop

[Nate B.]

Not all Radio Shack stores are the cellphone/radio controlled cars only variety.

There is a very good RS in Derby, KS (southeast side of Wichita) that doubles as a ham radio store. The owner is a ham and usually has a good selection of used gear and accessories. Heaven knows that I've left more than my share of a few paychecks there...

Up here (northeast Kansas/southeast Nebraska) the quality of the store for components depends on the ownership. The one in Beatrice, NE is pretty good for parts and some non-RS merchandise.

Re:Out of the loop

[sipy]

I think that the two camps (Hams and Hackers - in the good sense of that word - GSotW) are actually part of the same loop.

The spirit of altruism in both camps is the same. Ham Radio operators give to their communities in many ways - offering their communications skills during local events (walk-a-thons, festivals, etc.) and their emergency-preparedness skills to people in times of need (Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11, hurricanes, etc.). They are motivated not by money, not by bragging rights, but by the genuine desire to help others.

Hackers (GSotW) are similarly motivated not by money, but by the genuine desire to help others. In their case, they want to empower others to do what they could never do before. They even try to save lives (e.g. Folding-at-Home).

You can now send an email to the deepest heart of Africa because some hams and some hackers got together and built a long-haul, Linux-based email-forwarding system over amateur packet radio.

Out of the loop? Not hardly. TCP/IP was given, freely, to the world. No one charges you for it. Now try to live in the digital world without it. Got a cell phone? Ham radio operators were making phone calls from their cars years before the first cell tower was conceived. Send any email lately? You guessed it - a hacker created Sendmail, which touches virtually every email sent over the Internet.

If it wasn't for hackers, you'd have no Internet. If it wasn't for Ham radio, you'd have no GPRS, FRS, Cell Phone, trunked radio system,...

These two camps are much closer than most realize. Primarily, they are related due to their spirit of altruism - their desire to do good will toward others with no compensation expected.

God Bless both camps!

Re:Out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

One split was somewhere in the DOS 3.x world, where many ham operators now reside. Another split hit around Windows 95.

That's really an outdated stereotype. Its a lot easier to understand if you understand amateur radio is a service that has lots of different kinds of people that converging within the interest.

I'm a general license ham and one of the original Linux users in my state. I program in Python and in my spare time am developing a python module for software control of Syntor radios.

My ham friends include groups of weather spotters and the occasional chaser (some don't even own a PC), ARES emergency service types, HF ragchewers, a couple of heavy duty contesters, etc. Looking at hams as a candidate demographic for open source is very backwards to reality; it is open sourcers who should seriously look at an amateur license as another avenue to open up open source experimentation. It's a wild frontier with quite impressive priveleges, a whole bunch of potential users of your application, etc.

Check out http://www.arrl.org and take the technician test. Then get into a club and find out what's going on. You'll be kicking yourself (as I did) for not doing it years earlier!

Oh, and per this:
Note also that Ham equipment makers and experimenters appear reluctant to dump RS232 for USB, though there are some strides being made by individual kit-makers.

Nothing a ham with an API and Python can't tackle.

Re:Out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like he invented absolutely everything. Your grandfather called Abe Simpson by any chance? In my day...

NPR's coverage of ham radio

[The I Shing]

There's an NPR episode of Talk of the Nation entitled "Letters and Ham Radio Lessons". From the website: "...ham radio teacher Rick Stern joins Neal Conan with tips on teaching your kids about ham radio."

There is also this episode of TOTN that covers the topic, featuring the authors of the book Hello World: A Life in Ham Radio.

And in February of this year, All Things Considered ran a piece on the pending approval of a Morse code "at" symbol so that operators could tell others their email addresses. How's that for radio and the internet meeting in the middle?

until recently?

[hutman]

There is still a ton of overlap - most hams I know are interested in both 'hobbies'. I like the comparison though - I think there will always be a group of people who love technology for it's own sake and will be very innovative simply because they're not out just to make a buck.

Re:until recently?

[brilinux]

One interesting innovation nowadays is the combination of the internet and radio .. now it is possible to talk to people across the country by linking repeaters up to to the internet, as well as allowing one to listen to them online, such as at the infamous 435 repeater in LA: Listen to the 435 repeater. As a ham and someone who uses computers a lot, I can say that a lot of the technological stuff goes back and forth, and both hobbies are quite interesting.
-73, KG4QXK

Re:until recently?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's an absolute wonder that 147.435 is permitted to remain on the air. I heard more expletives and mortal threats in the 2 minutes I listened to 435 just now, than is in your favorite The Godfather movie. It's Jackass meets Kill Bill all on your local 2m repeater. Pretty sad.

Re:until recently?

[Anonymous Coward]

Many of the early computer hobbyists were ham radio types. I remember back in the mid 1980's I noticed that many of the early file uploads to GEnie's forums were to and from ham radio radio enthusiasts. Its makes perfect sense --- tinkering with electronics.

i think educational pitfalls is the biggest

[hsmith]

thing that needs to be recorded and worked on the most.

i know from getting out of college to "real work" there were many differences, some i was aware of some that were a shock

Tasty

[secretvampire]

[Homer]

Mmmmmmmmmm.....Ham radio.....glaaaaaaaaaarrgh...

[/Homer]

Exploited?

[AAAWalrus]

Hrm... how about that both technologies started as chic geek projects and are now exploited by corporate interests?

Re:Exploited?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are chick geeks out there? Cool. Where would I meet one of these radio building, coder girls?

Oh. Nevermind.

Re:Exploited?

[JasontheMason]

Hrm... how about that both technologies started as chic geek projects and are now exploited by corporate interests?

Somehow, the intimate relationship between 'geeks' and 'chic' in this statement does not compute.

Maybe the projects were chic after they were commercialized?

Re:Exploited?

[foonf]

Ham radio exploited by corporate interests? Maybe some technologies developed originally by hams are, but there are pretty strict rules in most countries preventing commercial activities by amateur operators. Broadcasting is strictly prohibited. When I was an active ham operator, it was considered illegal even to order a pizza over a phone patch from your radio (they might have loosened this since then, I don't remember). And of course, it is off limits if you don't have a license. So while as a ham you might be able to hack, say, off the shelf 802.11 equipment to operate on ham bands, and legally use it at much higher power levels and with better antennae than you can on their normal unlicensed frequencies, accessing much (most?) internet content over such a connection would be of questionable legality, selling access would be clearly illegal, and using it without a license would be absolutely verboten.

In fact, the amateur service is under constant threat of losing frequencies to commercial uses, especially the marginally used microwave bands where most of the interesting experimentation goes on now. Most commercial radio frequency users are more interested in destroying ham radio than embracing and extending it (which, as discussed above, is pretty difficult).

Bless them!

[Otter]

Whenever I'm configuring a new Linux kernel on Saturday night, evading my wife's attempts to drag me out the door or into bed -- I always get to the "Amateur Radio" section and think "Hah! What kind of dweeb do they think I am?"

Re:Bless them!

[Anonymous Coward]

evading my wife's attempts to drag me out the door or into bed

You don't know what you're missing. She sweats a bit, though.

Hopes

[LordMyren]

the one desperate hope i bear is that software will not go the way of ham radio. ham radio pioneered radio, but ultimately it was the corporations that had to advance the art. they were the only ones who could sink the required technology and capital into the field. (generall) ham radio has been relegated back to a enthusiast hobby as die hard development has faded off.

i'm not sure why i stick to this hope so badly, but i hope there's another way for software. fundamentally, software is all about building blocks, using the existing to build more. for this reason, its crucial that there be open-ness of software.

software at least stands a chance. it doesnt require adv. fabrication, expensive test equipment and doesnt cause anything other than your own computer to break.

and to all the hardcore ham people still out there, keep kickin baby! or something.

Myren

Re:Hopes

[Anonymous Coward]

"and to all the hardcore ham people still out there, keep kickin baby!"

Wait - WTF? I thought Ham Radio was kinda cool until I saw this! Who kicks babies?! That's terrible!

Re:Hopes

[Bastian]

It can be done, but in order to do so we need to have a change in the OSS culture. Right now, the DIY impulse is so strong that many hackers are more interested in re-inventing the wheel than they are in contributing to an existing project.

It's an understandable impusle. Everyone wants to feel like they are doing big things, and it's much easier to just start writing something from scratch (since you usually see the biggest things right at the start of a project). You don't have to futz around with learning another app's architecture, the team's programming style, and all that just to get to the point of throwing in a slightly better checksum routine or whatever.

Possibly we could mitigate this by working towards better coding standards or somesuch. For example, I think we could take another example from Apple and create a standard GNU plugin framework the way Apple has in Cocoa.

Re:Hopes

[lostchicken]

Amateur Radio isn't at all relegated back to a hobby without development.

Go pick up a copy of QST (the ARRL's magazine). Flip through it. You'll see all kinds of articles on people developing more and more transmission and encoding techniques. Pretty much all of the development focuses on digital (packet) radio systems, and since power outputs are limited, (sometimes by law, but usually just because it's fun to be challenged) amateur radio operators have developed pretty much the best ways of dealing with interference and robustness in transmission of data.

Today's ham tech is 2007 commercial tech.

Re:Hopes

[Teancum]

There are some very valid reasons to "Do It Yourself" in regards to software development. If you have a very time critical section of code, it is far better to reimplement software, even stuff you've written before, than stick with a more generic library routine. Library routines are by their nature much more bulky from both the standpoint of compiler impact as well from actually running and using the software.

There is also a limit to how many routines you can simply keep track of. If you need a specialty library (such as decompression of an OGG audio stream), that is one thing. To do general software development assistance routines such as even a simple floor function, there are litterally thousands of functions you need to know. Even for common functions that I've used before, I often have to dig up a help file just to remember what arguments I need to use to put into the function. Some compiler tools help (like auto-completion and in-editor argument parsing and hinting), but you still need to understand the subtle changes that can happen when a boolean argument is true or false, and sometimes the meaning isn't all that clear.

Also, every API library I've ever worked with has their own unique flavor and even culture behind how and why they set things up like they do. The Win32 API library comes to mind particularly, and I'm always discovering new things about it. DOS-based systems went a totally different route being very heaving on software interrupts. And Borland Object Pascal standards are quite a bit different from Microsoft MFC. I don't have quite so much experience with Linux, but kernel APIs into Linux are just as rough, and come from a completely different backgroud that takes a bit of time to learn. Even software developers who have been exposed to several environments sometimes have a hard time shifting mentally from one environment to another.

BTW, there are several "plug-in" GPL'd (and non-GPL'd) standards. CORBA, Bonabo, and even Mono (to a small extent... more like class inheritance and interface reuse, but capable of doing real "plug-ins" if you care to) come to mind. Each has its strength and weakness, and it is the weakness of each approach that causes many problems that prevent wider use of the technologies.

Re:Hopes

[j1m 5n0w]

I think the problem with HAM radio is that it's technology for its own sake. If I write good software, it can make a difference in the world. People who aren't programmers will use it, and it will make the world a better place. If I come up with new HAM radio technology, no one but HAM operators can make immediate use of it.

The practical uses of HAM radio are very limited (emergency communication is the most significant exception). Rules have been placed on the HAM bands such that they can't be used for anything remotely useful. Many ham operators consider this a feature, since it keeps away all the people who don't care about the technology and just want to use it to surf the web and check their email from remote locations. Their objections may be justified - frequency is scarce (especially on the lower frequency bands), and commercial traffic, if allowed, might make the bands unuseable.

Unfortunately, this also means that it can't have any real effect on people's lives. The Internet is a tool of social change. Ham radio is not.

The rules I'm refering to are these:

• No crypto (most people regard digital signatures as ok). No ssh. No ssl. If you check your email over ham radio, everyone else can read it.
• No music. Not even if you made it up yourself.
• No swearing.
• No business-related traffic.

These rules all ensure that HAM radio is a polite medium used by nice people who aren't going to step on each other's toes. It also means, however, that you can't use HAM radio to carry Internet traffic for non-ham radio people, due to the difficulty of policing their traffic, making sure they aren't sending or receiving prohibited data.

My opinion is that they should open up some small subset of the UHF and VHF bands to general purpose traffic. It would still require a license to use the equipment, but with content rules similar to the ISM band (whatever kind of traffic you want, as long as it's not interfering with someone else). This would allow people to use HAM radio as part of the infrastructure of the Internet.

-jim (KE7BGU)

Re:Hopes

[Our Man In Redmond]

There's still development going on, but not as much as there used to be. Hams of the 50s and 60s decried the advent of the "appliance operator" who bought his gear off the shelf rather than building it himself. I've built a couple of projects -- a 30-meter direct conversion receiver, for instance -- mostly to be able to say "I've done it" and to internalize some of that theory I had to learn to get that Extra ticket. But by and large, I don't have the leisure time to spend wiring up a circuit, testing it, troubleshooting it, and tweaking it to get it to work. I'm sure most hams these days are in the same situation.

Now for the good news. Most of the development in ham radio these days seems to be software driven. Look at modes like PSK31 and WSJT, which couldn't exist without a computer. Look at software-controlled radios. Ham radio might not be What It Used To Be in terms of experimentation and innovation, but it ain't dead yet.

Re:Hopes

[LordMyren]

Generally, I've found that as soon as i'm writing "Time critical software," i've lost the battle (if not the war) already. Leave time critical to apache & three hundred object databases, unless time critical is really integral. Not because you cant write time critical software, but because time critical software takes too long to write well. Its a recepiet for death before release.

Re:Hopes

[LordMyren]

Ham radio still retains the distinction of being the ONLY source for learning about radio operations. I've endured Communications Systems classes, but truth be told, the only useful information available in the world about radio operations is in the ARRL books.

And you're defiantely right: ham's continue to grow this body of knowledge. but between the technology barrier and the availability of 802.11b, there's been shift away from this. i'd (rather safely) wager that the number of hams making their own gear has dramatically decreased.

Without question though, amateur radio continues to help inidicate & shift the future direction of radio, while providing almost all the guideposts of our past.

Re:Hopes

[LordMyren]

efficient use of bandwidth is the heart of ham radio. i'd wager its a far more concrete goal than "computer software," even if it takes 10 years for the general public to catch up. bandwidth is finite, its up to us to make the best of it.

i wager that with 802.11b, cell phones and what not, things appear "good enough". we're in the age of marvels, why make cooler ones?

good breakdown of the restrictions.

Re:Hopes

[tepples]

No music. Not even if you made it up yourself.

That's because you didn't in fact make it up yourself.

Re:Hopes

[j1m 5n0w]

That's an interesting point. But supposing you did own the copyright, or the music in question was your own performance of a work no longer under copyright, it would still be prohibitted to transmit over ham radio.

(There is one odd exception, and that is rebroadcasts of a space shuttle transmission.)

-jim

Re:Hopes

[Teancum]

So all you write is software that connect to databases? That is only one part of a much larger picture of what is expected from software developers. I would generally say that if you are trying to write a user interface into a database, that most of the operations that you will be doing will not have that much of a time critical nature.

On the other hand, if you are writing a word processor, an image processing engine, or dealing with multimedia resources like combining video with embedded data, by its very nature it has to be very time critical. I had to deal with a process that I wanted to make the damn mouse cursor in Windows wait while some very critical processing took place once every 30th of a second (video related). Microsoft in their infinite wisdom put the cursor at priority level 32 in Windows. Time critical process with a time-critical thread. For many tasks that makes sense, but why should the only thing working on a computer be the stupid mouse cursor, because the rest of it is locked up?

Also, if you are working on a pure embedded system, often the kinds of software that you are writing have some very time critical tasks that have to be dealt with. That is why some engineering shops even write their own custom operating system, because an off-the-shelf solution just doesn't seem to work all of the time. Real-Time operating systems is a significant segment of the computer industry, and is used in many things you use routinely, like cell phones or even the door on a hotel room.

I also get very frustrated with many "wigets" or "components" used in a GUI environment. (If you can't tell by here, I've done quite a bit of Win32 API development) The "TreeView" component that is native to Windows works reasonably for modest sided number of items, but as soon as you start getting to several thousand items it really starts to bog down. Also, every button, panel, checkbox, and slider is a "Window" which needs its own handle, gets put into the event queue, and essentially is almost like its own thread in the sense that each window has to sit in the event queue and process all of the events getting thrown around in Windows. All of this processing takes up a considerable amount of CPU time and is for the most part a very sloppy bit of programming. Borland figured out some neat tricks to reduce some of the Windowing overhead, but even with their compilers it still can be a nightmare, simply due to system resources getting bogged down.

Re:Hopes

[Anonymous Coward]

No crypto (most people regard digital signatures as ok). No ssh. No ssl. If you check your email over ham radio, everyone else can read it.
No music. Not even if you made it up yourself.
No swearing.
No business-related traffic.

So wardrobe malfunctions are OK?

Re:Hopes

[Anonymous Coward]

My opinion is that they should open up some small subset of the UHF and VHF bands to general purpose traffic. It would still require a license to use the equipment, but with content rules similar to the ISM band (whatever kind of traffic you want, as long as it's not interfering with someone else). This would allow people to use HAM radio as part of the infrastructure of the Internet.

That is what MURS was created for.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/personal/murs/
73 de AB2RC

Re:Hopes

[j1m 5n0w]

Interesting. 2 watts, 11.25 khz per channel, 5 channels. Not enough for high throughput links, but sufficient for basic communication. Are there any rules concerning acceptable uses and/or modulation techniques? Is crypto permitted? Are there antenna gain restrictions?

-jim

Answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Are there any interesting stories about the creativity of either groups (that relate to the other group perhaps) that should be recorded and documented?

Surprisingly, no. Next question.

Ham + Software

[Anonymous Coward]

Ham + software = spam. No?

Re:Ham + Software

[KD5YPT]

Actually no. Federal/International law has a VERY strict regulation on spamming on HAM radio. Generally any type of radio transmission (a general agreement between nations) requires that the radio operators to state his/her callsign at a time interval (forgot if it was every 15 minutes or 30 minutes). So if someone spams, you can either track him down easy using his callsign. Or if he's not using one or fake another callsign, he could get into a shitload of trouble with the FCC. And tracking down someone abusing radio is easy once you got two or more people.

The reason that the government crack down on this is because HAM radio is considered as an emergency communication channel. A very good example is that on 9/11, all communications from NYC (internet, cellphone, phone, and etc) failed because of over-congestion or physical destruction to the infrastructure, except for HAM radio, which helped coordinate the rescue effort and aides from other states.

Re:Ham + Software

[jmanforever]

...requires that the radio operators to state his/her callsign at a time interval (forgot if it was every 15 minutes or 30 minutes)

It is every 10 minutes. You should know that Sterling, since KD5YPT is a valid HAM callsign in Texas.

Re:Ham + Software

[dougmc]

(forgot if it was every 15 minutes or 30 minutes).

As mentioned, it's 10 minutes. And as mentioned, you really should know this.

As for spamming, there's two problems: 1) ham radio cannot be used to broadcast to the general public, and 2) it cannot be used to make money. The identification requirement just makes it easier to catch offenders (or to know more easily that they're offenders, because they're not IDing themselves.)

The reason that the government crack down on this is because HAM radio is considered as an emergency communication channel.

Not really. Yes, ham radio is used in emergency, but it's not afforded the same protections as `true' emergency communications. Case in point -- BPL. The FCC themselves said that most ham radio transmissions were `routine' (which is accurate enough) and didn't need to be protected from BPL interference via notches and the like, but other `emergency' bands did.

As for cracking down, I'm not aware of any new crackdown movement. Hams report offenders to the FCC, and the FCC takes action. This has been going on for decades. AD5RH

Perhaps a little off the mark

[spyrochaete]

Ham is to pirate radio stations as hacker is to hacktivism (e.g. defaced web sites)

Re:Perhaps a little off the mark

[Elwood P Dowd]

Whatever.

Ham is to pirate radio as hacker is to DMCA violator.

Re:Perhaps a little off the mark

[spyrochaete]

All pirate radio stations violate the DMCA, but not all hackers do.

Re:Perhaps a little off the mark

[Elwood P Dowd]

You didn't do very well in the analogy section of the SATs.

My analogy does not imply that hackers are like pirate radio stations, and it does not imply that all hackers violate the DMCA.

Re:Perhaps a little off the mark

[Kiryat Malachi]

All pirate radio stations violate the DMCA.

Would you care to explain this? Most pirate radio stations do not violate the DMCA, except possibly in incidental ways (cracked iTMS music being used or something like that.)

Now, if you were talking *internet* radio, you might be right, depending on format. But most *real* pirate radio stations are violating various FCC regulations, not the DMCA.

Re:Perhaps a little off the mark

[spyrochaete]

Sorry then, I missed the point of your analogy. Could you clarify please?

And only Americans or people wishing to attend American schools take SAT's, but thanks for assuming.

Re:Perhaps a little off the mark

[spyrochaete]

I am not intimately familiar with the DMCA, but I believe it makes illegal any act or technology that permits someone to circumvent regulated or protected systems. I don't know how American air American airwaves are regulated, but I don't think the DMCA would contradict the prosecutors.

Re:Perhaps a little off the mark

[Elwood P Dowd]

My point was that your analogy implies that pirate radio operators are damaging other people's property. I feel that they are violating a law, but not necessarily harming other people's property. I feel that they, like DMCA violators, may not be harming anyone at all.

Neither hacking websites nor the DMCA are directly related to pirate radio operators. That's the point of analogies.

Re:Perhaps a little off the mark

[Kiryat Malachi]

The DMCA makes illegal acts and technology designed to circumvent *systems that are used to technologically protect copyright*. Not any old system. The DMCA would not be used on someone who cut the line of a security system protecting a CD store (protected works, non-technological protection/circumvention). Nor could it be used (well, by language... court interpretation has been somewhat misguided) on someone cracking an encryption system used on a bank vault lock (technological protection/circumvention, non-protected work). The language you're looking for is "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." The Title referred to is Title 17, which deals exclusively with copyright - broadcast regulation is under Title 47.

The DMCA might not contradict the prosecutors, but that's a meaningless statement - the Anti-Sedition Act wouldn't contradict someone prosecuting me for mail fraud, but neither would it apply.

The DMCA applies to cases involving copyright; pirate radio prosecution involves FCC licensing of the airwaves. The two are (in the general case) not related.

Re:Perhaps a little off the mark

[spyrochaete]

Thanks for filling me in. Now I know.

Re:Perhaps a little off the mark

[Kiryat Malachi]

No problem. Not everyone is obsessive enough to learn intricate details of American broadcast/copyright law, especially if (as I'm assuming?) you're not American. I worked in the US radio industry is the only reason I have all that stuff right at hand.

Hacking a "closed" repeater

[MsWillow]

Back in the McHenry, Ill, area, there's a closed repeater that, to unlock, you need to send a series of tones at the start of each transmission. It's run by a club whose "dues" go mainly into one guy's pocket, effectively making this system not legal (but hey, who really cares about legal, as long as he gets rich?).

Anyways, one local ham used to be part of that clique, until he managed to cheese off the repeater owner. He wanted to be able to use the system again.

I built a gadget that used one of the cool digital recorder chips you can get from Radio Shack. We digitally recorded the signal on the input frequency of the repeater, then sent these tones when the mic was keyed up.

Worked amazingly well, until the guy dropped the mic and the wire broke loose. Wheee, what fun his sudden re-appearance on the system caused! :)

OK, so it's not really software hacking, more of a hardware hack with some social engineering thrown in too, but hey, doing it was quite a blast. MUCH more amusing than Field Day.

de N9JZW

Re:Hacking a "closed" repeater

[spyrochaete]

"Hacking" is most certainly not limited to software hacking! One definition of "Hacking" is to understand a system and to patch together a creative solution that circumvents but doesn't hinder normal operation. Your creative solution most certainly qualifies you as a hacker! To this end, many hams are hackers as well.

Re:Hacking a "closed" repeater

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me get this straight. He thinks he can broadcast secrets and expect them to remain secrets? And then there are people that think it's worth giving him money?

Can ham licenses be revoked for mind-numbing stupidity?

Past Tense

[amacleod98]

Why is that whole article written in the past tense?

They are the same community

[GhengisCohen]

When the first BBS's went up in NYC, and the first personal computers came out, like the Radio shack Model 1, all those early programmers/BBSers were Ham nuts. Hacking in NYC and personal computers user grew directly out of HAM. They are not parallel, but instead the hacking field all grew from Ham. Everyone in FreakShow 100 from NYC learned their stuff from a guy name Art. Art got into computers from his Ham hobby. Other pioneers of the NYC hacking scene were the likes of Billy Arnel (Ham first, ran an early BBS called People Links) and a lady named Susan I seem to remember (ham as well)

Re:They are the same community

[oo_waratah]

A linux group in the Asutralian bush is actually under the ham radio club. So I guess you are spot on the money there :-)

This is a typical pattern

[Anonymous Coward]

A new technology begs to be tinkered with and if people can tinker, they will. As technologies mature the opportunities for tinkering decrease and the tinkerers may move to the margins.

It happened with radio and it happened with computers. It also happened with cars. When the Model T came out, many people could afford a car and it was worth their while to be able to fix them. Everyone was a back yard mechanic. As cars got better and more complicated, the life of the back yard mechanic got more difficult. They didn't go away though. There are major retailers devoted to supplying parts to them. Similarly, I don't think radio amateurs and 'computer amateurs' are in danger of extinction.

I think one of the advantages of having people do these activities is that it produces a supply of people interested in becoming professional. (Remember that one of the reasons that amateurs were licensed was to create a supply of signalmen for the army.) It is very important that people have the opportunity to tinker and innovate because that ultimately is what drives the economy.

Recently?

[pete-classic]

[U]p until recently there was even some overlap between the two groups.

Ah, who could ever forget the Great Ham Purge of aught-one?

WTF?

-Peter

Re:Recently?

[Ticklemonster]

Ah yes, dropping the code liscensing requirements. I got my Tech plus license in 1997. Sat down and took novice, tech and general at the same time, and missed 13 wpm by just a hair, then aced the 5. Stuck in Techplusville since, lol. Too lazy to upgrade. de kf4smu sksksk

/usr/pkgsrc/ham

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. That is why NetBSD includes /usr/pkgsrc/ham for those who want to experiment with hardware and software.

Re:UNIONIZE!

[jidai]

oh christ! I need some sleep. forget this post.

my apologies.

Packet radio

[LodCrappo]

My father has been a HAM for nearly forty years. Growing up I always enjoyed going to hamfest and other events with him. Even in the short time I experienced the ham culture (aprox 1980-1990), I noticed a trend towards PCs becoming frequent topics of discussion and PC gear being swapped at swapfests as much as radio equipment. Probably the best integration of the two worlds that I experienced was packet radio. I'm sure there are many who know more about the system than I do. I remember being fascinated that you could log in to a packet radio bulletin board and exchange messages with people from all over the world. In those days a local dialup PC based BBS would typically only have members from the surrounding area. Maybe someone can post more info on Packet radio?

Re:Packet radio

[the coose]

Packet radio isn't as popular as it was in the '80s and early '90s, when the PC made it an affordable mode to operate. Today, the PC soundcard provides a cheap DSP with which to implement all sorts of digital modes without the need for a TNC; PSK31 is one of the most popular ones. But packet is used for the Automatic Position Reporting System, or APRS. I run an APRS IGATE, which is an RF to internet gateway. A quich search of APRS will yield a lot of info.

Re:PACKET RADIO

[Anonymous Coward]

All I remember about ham radio was due to an uncle I visited once a year who was into it. This was sometime in the early 1970's (I am 43 now). I remember that there was a sort of culture clash at the time regarding Morse code, in that all of the more traditional types thought that Morse code should be a prerequisite for entry into the ham radio club. I read a bunch of books and magazine articles about setting up my own ham rig, but I never actually did anything.

Anyway, now I am proud to be the "geek" uncle in the family, enticing my nieces and nephews into exploring Debian et al. It is really shocking to learn how narrowly informed young people are. My 20-year-old niece knows all that can be known about email and IM under WindowsXP, but responded with a vacant "deer in the headlights" stare when I asked her what she thought about Linux. I think it is still a tiny minority that is tuned in (pardon the pun) regarding free software, and a very much smaller minority that is active in amateur radio.

Re:PACKET RADIO

[jxs2151]

N2TL
R Bruce Peters
203 Collingsworth Dr Rochester NY 14625

Re:PACKET RADIO

[Nate B.]

One ham radio distro I discovered is AFU Knoppix. The site is in German and hints that it includes several ham radio packages. It'll take me another week to download it via my dial-up and see what it's about.

Another ham radio distro is the Debian DX-pedition Disk found at http://home.iae.nl/users/reinc/dxpedition_disk.htm l. The live CD uses Morphix and a USB memory stick to store newer versions of the logging program and logged QSOs.

These are two live CDs catering to ham radio. Among the traditional distributions, I would guess that Debian is among the most ham radio friendly, although Fedora Core could become a contender (I use Debian exclusively, so I may be a bit biased).

We just need to get the word out, methinks.

The sad side of the split

[gnat_x]

Growing up I had this neighbor who was a stereo nut, and had been building his own speakers since the 60's. I learned about going to radio shack and soldering things together. I learned a little about fixing stereos. I learned lots about transmission of sound through the air.

Unfortunately, as a youg internet generation geek (I'm 21), I look around at geekly peers my age, and see very few people who know how to solder.

I fear that the age of computer geeks going and buying the parts from Radio Shack and building stuff might be passing. Radio Shack has noticed this too, and stores with a good parts selection are getting harder to find.

Re:The sad side of the split

[Anonymous Coward]

www.jameco.com and www.digikey.com

do not waste your time with ratshack. they destryoed their useability with ham's and hackers a long time ago.

hell their COAX for Rf is below even the crappiest grade, nobody would use it.

The ham and electronics hacker of the 21'st century must have a credit card and the ability to wait a few days for parts to arrive.

Re:The sad side of the split

[JasontheMason]

Radio Shack has noticed this too, and stores with a good parts selection are getting harder to find.

You can say that again. Though I haven't really noticed the store selection deteriorating that much, they used to have a big fat 'Commercial Catalog' with loads of parts. Still not as good a selection as DigiKey or Mouser, but similar prices, and I could go into the store, give the guy at the counter the numbers, and they'd ship it to your house within a week. No minimum order, either, and shipping was never more than a couple bucks. Though it beats my why the called it the 'Commercial' catalog, they had no problem with a twelve year old kid walking in with one. :^)

Now, I go into Rip-of...er, Radio Shack and ask if they have something like *heat shrink tubing*, and people give me blank looks.

Re:The sad side of the split

[Wyzard]

It's getting harder to build hardware that can be used in modern computers -- building a PCI or USB device, for example, requires significant "interface" hardware in addition to the device-specific functionality. Boards covered with tiny surface-mount parts are hard enough to even diagnose when they stop working, let alone fix by hand. There's not as much of use that a computer geek can do with a soldering iron anymore.

However, there's more to being a computer geek than "soldering things together". My degree is in computer science, not computer engineering or electrical engineering, and although I can use a soldering iron reasonably well, I rarely do so because hardware isn't really my thing; software is. I'm working on on writing a 3D renderer and an SSH client in my spare time, and my shelves are full of books on software architecture and design patterns.

I imagine that while useful computer hardware is getting harder to build by hand, it's getting easier to write useful software by hand, thanks to the rising number of open-source projects which one can build upon or contribute to directly. This might explain the trend you've noticed.

(Note that I don't mean to disparage hardware people... it's just that as the field matures, the barrier to entry gets higher, hence fewer amateurs.)

Re:The sad side of the split

[Animats]

stores with a good parts selection are getting harder to find.

Everybody orders parts on the Internet now. Try DigiKey and Mouser. They ship really, really fast (order late in the day and it's here tomorrow morning) and they're seldom out of stock. Digi-Key even has the data sheets for almost everything they sell on line.

Re:The sad side of the split

[Nate B.]

Your assessment is probably why there has been an upsurge in recent years in the interest of older radio designs. Many hams really do want to understand the technology, but today's hand-held radio that is smaller than a pack of cigarettes and receives from 100 kHz to 2 GHz, while a great gadget, is impossible to obtain any hardware knowledge from.

The basics of communications electronics hasn't changed so hams have pulled out designs and projects from years ago and updated them with some of today's technology. The result is a way for experimenters to get hands-on experience and understanding and more than a little enjoyment. It may seem like a step backward, but in the age of nuclear powered ships with GPS guidance, the hobbyist finds a sailboat most rewarding.

Re:The sad side of the split

[Solder Fumes]

Surplus is great...lots of good parts available, can really reduce the cost of a project, or even inspire a new one. My favorite surplus electronics store these past 6 years is the Electronic Goldmine. They recently fixed up their website, and always have lots of standard parts as well as great deals on unique stuff.

Geek suck

[zeke-o]

Unfortunately computing/internet/gaming has been sucking the young geek pool dry. The average age in amateur radio is scarily high, and it's very hard to lure "instant gratification" types from here to there. Amateur organizations have been lobbying the FCC to water down the requirements over and over (at least since the late 60's when I started, and continuing today as the morse code requirement fades away) in order to boost participation and lower the entry barrier.

One way to revitalize might be to require licensing to use the 'net :)

Re:Geek suck

[Anonymous Coward]

"Yeah, I'm into ham radio, it's really great, chatting round the world. Like the other day, there was this guy in Japan, you know, he has this really interesting hobby, building radios..."

Remind me why anyone should be interested.

Re:Geek suck

[zeke-o]

Because you want to learn some skills besides hand-eye coordination?

Still lots of overlap

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out the gnu-radio project
http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuradio/
Th e TAPR group (not just packet radio anymore all sorts of digital communications topics)
Eric and Matt from the gnu-radio project were at the TAPR digital communication conference again this year.
http://www.tapr.org
Here's some more linux ham software listed:
http://radio.linux.org.au
Also check out The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT):
http://www.amsat.org
The next major sat project named Eagle will use as much open source software and open hardware as possible.
There are also many notable hams who are also linux hackers, just to name one Bdale Garbee, former Debian Project head and CTO for linux solutions at HP, whom I met at the TAPR DCC this year, he is very active with both TAPR and hardware design on AMSAT satellites.
Also check out the June and September issue of Linuxjournal for gnu-radio and a psk article (Sept).

73, w0uhf

Re:Still lots of overlap

[AndroidCat]

And getting your feet wet with radio/computers doesn't even require a licence. A scanner, sound card and some software will let you play with neat digital stuff like ACARS Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System, which lets you do stuff like a real-time map display of airplanes near you. other link. (Perhaps not as spiff as this one.) There's other telemetery besides position and speed, so it could make a cool wall display--with no bandwidth suck.

Re:Still lots of overlap

[Muad'Dave]

Perhaps even more famous, Phil Karn, KA9Q.

Even more similarities

[OzPeter]

I knew a person back several years ago who was heavily into Ham Radio. He built some of his own equipment and hoarded heaps of "useful" parts that were never used, but were considered "handy" to have "just in case". He spent all of his free time either chatting to people all over the world from inside his darkened radio shack or planning how he was going to do it. And when away from home (on the road to the local shops or on vacation around the world) he took portable equipment so that he would always be connected, which was to the annoyance of those around him.

As a result he of this obsession he never communicated well with his family, instead choosing to share freely with his on-air mates. Resulting in a well of negative energy in his own home.

Yep I knew him .. he was my father.

(Yes I am bitter about that .. but yes I am dealing with it)

BTW I also remember when people built their own computers .. from scratch .. and coded up their own systems by the bootstraps.

Re:Even more similarities

[Anonymous Coward]

And now you can sit in a darkened room chatting via IM, IRC or Slashdot. And when you travel, take a cellphone, laptop or PDA and stay connected with WiFi. *Oops*, let me just take this call...

Re:Even more similarities

[tokaok]

I'm sorry son. :(

Re:Even more similarities

[OzPeter]

Hmm .. did you realise that you are dead? and have been since '97 .. and cremated after that??

Re:Even more similarities

[Anonymous Coward]

It's sort of like star wars. Ham-masters can transmit from beyond the grave.

Re:Even more similarities

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you should try to understand that your father's choice of Obsession was not the problem......the problem was your father.

Don't blame Amateur Radio for your father's lack of Love for your family...

Re:Even more similarities

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow Pete!

Your post hit me like a TON of bricks!

I lived through the very same thing!

I take comfort from the fact that I had a little fuller upbringing than my father, especially thanks to him. Yet I believe, as a reward, I am much closer to my children than I think I would have been otherwise.

I also think ham radio was palliative, for all the issues he was dealing with himself. (He could keep his safe distance, yet converse with other people)

So perhaps some good can come from all of it.

-cajo

PS We did manage to build our own computer together, a Heath H8!

While you're at it...

[Big Sean O]

Let's talk about Model Railroaders.

They were the cradle of the MIT Hackerdom and their efforts are the genesis of miniturization of electronics, RC airplanes, robot vehicles and a whole slew of electronics hobbies (house automation for one).

Re:While you're at it...

[AndroidCat]

While it is important, I think you're giving the Model Railway club way too much credit. That's like saying that my fridge is the source of all fungus--no, just a place where the conditions were right for some to form.

Re:While you're at it...

[emtboy9]

Exactly. MY fridge is the source of all fungus... What you get are the refugees from my fridgedaire kingdom that are a sad by-product of over-population and nonexistant birth control among the populace of my fridge...

Now, the fridge-freezer wars of '97, thats another story....

Ham creativity

[Anonymous Coward]

For Amatuer Radio, there are. Everything from amatuer satellites, Echolink (VOIP linked to ham stations across the world), Meteor and moon bounce communications in the the UHF and Microwave bands, and microwave based digital communications modes. Most of these things are cronicled in ARRL publications and magizines.

Check out Software Based Radios

[_A_Mad_Scientist]

I think it is too cool to be able to program black boxes, either a receiver like the IC-PCR1000 or a pure software based T/R radio like FlexRadio

You forgot the obvious similarity

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been thinking about the similarities between the community of early ham radio operators and software developers.

Another often overlooked similarity is that neither could get laid to save their lives. That's probably why amateur ham radio is so obscure, they forgot to procreate.

Fooddot?

[Anonymous Coward]

Food for nerds... Stuff that fills bladders

Re:Fooddot?

[Demanche]

SlashFood

Food For Fat People. Grams for Pounds.

Internet i.e. BPL may Kill Ham radio innovation

[LM741N]

If you read (www.arrl.org) about the new internet via power lines technologies i.e. BPL, you will find tons of evidence that the all consuming need for internet bandwidth may spell the end for HF Amateur work and perhaps even VHF weak signal work. Hams near BPL test sites have experienced extreme interference with all radio communication types.

All the FCC cares about right now is putting the positive spin on the BPL technology and ramming it through the approval process.

So here is a computer innovation that could enable thousands of people to get high speed internet access but at the same time may kill off another very innovative group of technologies we call Amateur Radio. I am certain there are components of BPL that hams originally had a hand in developing. Its incredibly ironic.

Rob N3FT

Ham!?

[roman_mir]

I am a vegetarian software developer, you insensitive clods!

Re:Ham!?

[HarveyBirdman]

I am a vegetarian software developer

Umm... how much software do vegetables need?

Re:Ham!?

[roman_mir]

?gurble gurble?

MSOD (Morse String Of Death)

[BoulderDad]

This happened to me just a few weeks ago. I was monitoring payload comms for a high-altitude research payload that we had built, and all the data comms went through a Linux box that was routing traffic to the payload.

Everything was going smooth as silk in mission control and then... lost connection to the payload from the mission controller station... I go to the linux router, and its LOCKED UP... nothing... screen is frozen with my windows up, no mouse movement...

CAPS and SCROLL led's are blinking in unison... some kind of code... maybe a number? I start trying to write down dots and dashes, but my autonomic response is to try to copy is as morse code... I get characters... then I scrawl out...

F A T A L E X C E P T I O N

!!! Linux was sending me morse code via the keyboard LEDs! That's a new one on me. It didn't send any kind of diagnostic code, not that it would've helped me. But knowing that it was a fatal exception was actually the right information, because I knew it was appropriate to immediately restart the machine.

So instead of the Windows blue screen of death, it's the linux "Morse String of Death" (MSOD?) !

-K0DUG

dit dit

Re:MSOD (Morse String Of Death)

[Anonymous Coward]

Bur how did you know when to start and stop? Are you sure it wasn't trying to say E X C E P T I O N F A T A L E

Re:MSOD (Morse String Of Death)

[micromoog]

or ON FAT ALE, XCEPT I? Maybe the computer wanted a beer.

Re:MSOD (Morse String Of Death)

[AndroidCat]

If the network connection goes down, does it start calling CQ? (If it had an IR port, maybe it could get the HP printer to relay...)

Re:MSOD (Morse String Of Death)

[nick0909]

I would go for a coffee pot/snack machine bounce myself, and just hope for good propigation.

Re:MSOD (Morse String Of Death)

[AndroidCat]

Try them all and go for Worked All Appliances! (Maybe the printer could do the QSL cards?)

Porn

[DogDude]

The community of adult webmasters is very creative. It's been said befoer, but it bears repeating that the ubiquitous Net owes its existence to the money, bandwidth, and technological push that porn online provides. In almost every aspect of the Web, the porn industry drives and uses new technology long before the "mainstream" catches on.

Forgot the S?

[brunes69]

You missed the S.. its SPAN and SOftware.

Oh wait.. this story is not about my Viagara order? nm....

bin laden is teh evil

[Anonymous Coward]

beware!

Stories

[$raim_n_reezn!]

Why is it that the slashdot editors would rather post "a need for creative stories" than post one where I requested help about creating a new language font and mapping the keyboard to it. Slashdot has gone the way of the dedeine.

Two things you don't want to watch being made...

[Anonymous Coward]

Pork products, and software.

Elecraft

[Snot Locker]

Here's a story of creativity and innovation in ham radio. Check out Elecraft -- this all sprouted from the brain of Wayne Burdick and others who designed some innovative low-power ham tranceiver kits for the Northern California QRP Club. Elecraft kits are not only superior to the old Heathkit kits, but the end result is a high quality transceiver comparable to the expensive commercial gear.

Re:Elecraft

[DF5JT]

One of the reasons for Elecraft's success is its approach to development: It's strikingly similiar to Open Source Software development. Users of Elecraft are more than just customers, they are part of a community whose input is valued and taken into consideration for the improvement of future gear.

The resulting transceiver is a superb piece of equipment, surprisingly devoid of useless bells and whistles, shiny knobs and impractical handling that have become to characteristic of all the modern Japanese transceivers.

A modern FT1000MP is like Windows XP, including the lack of proper documentation and source code, whereas the K2 is just like Linux: transparent, performant and it comes with the source code.

As a morse code buff I will definitely get a K2 should my old TS930 decide to quit one day.

DF5JT

Re:Elecraft

[Anonymous Coward]

Between my father and I, we own a couple of their models. Very good stuff, and their tech's seem to be computer minded as well...A project I'm pursuin is a Java GUI which will control multiple radios connected to one computer (via RS232 (serial)). An area where these two most definitely overlap is in the emergency communications field (ARES/RACES) where software is developed to log, monitor, and keep track of members in the field.

PLUG:: Youth! (i'm 21 myself) There are NOT enough Ham's my age! If you have any interest in radio, communications, or even just freedom of the airwaves, GET YOUR LICENSE! go to qrz.net, take the practice test until you can score 85% each time, and then find a local testing station. It's easy!!

Re:Elecraft

[man_ls]

I was interested in getting a HAM license, so I could legally play around with antenna configurations and power output modifications and such, in the WiFi band.

Then I learned that it's illegal to broadcast encrypted data over it. (No WEP, no WPA, no HTTPS even.)

And decided I wasn't interested any more.

the biggest thing that helped...

[Lumpy]

Is not what these people did, how much they researched, learned, designed,etc..

It's the simple fact that they SHARED what they knew with the world.

that is how things like Packet Radio, APRS, antenna designs, etc become more refined and wide spread use.

Most of what is in Ham Radio and software WOULD NOT EXIST if people were selfsih and kept their discoveries and designs to themselves.

Re:the biggest thing that helped...

[Nate B.]

Sadly, as the ham radio coders developed more sophisticated software for DOS/Windows, more of them adopted the proprietary software attitude and stopped sharing their knowledge. Instead they locked it inside of opaque code.

Fortunately, the influence of Free Software spurred by Linux and friends has begun to turn this attitude. Quite frankly, I don't think the ARRL should review or publish an article on any software unless it is Software Libre. We are fortunate as well that the Free Software influence was significant enough to ensure that a Software Defined Radio standard for ham radio is open.

Most hams would find a radio construction article useless without a schematic diagram. Why they accept closed software as a matter of course baffles me.

Re:the biggest thing that helped...

[Anonymous Coward]

A prime example is APRS. the creator got greedy. fortunately many hams reverse engineered it and designed free alternatives that are as good as or better.

I personally Shun any ham radio software or product that is 100% closed.

ICOM radios still have the full schematics available, I even have the firmware code for one of my ICOM handhelds... it was available for the asking.

Making a buck is great, but trying to keep everything a secret to make sure you make all the bucks is not.

PACKET RADIO

[gorehog]

Look up packet radio. I can recall, back in the old days as a wee young one reading my dad's 73 magazines and seeing all the stories about guys with various portable computers (Tandy 100 I think, also some "lightweight" apple variants). These people were hiking up to mountain tops and setting up various packet switched radio data networks. Long before ISP's. This was back in the day when AOL and Compuserve were BBs'es. Packet controlled. TCP. Heck, even today us hams get privileges in the 802.11b spectrum that mere mortals DREAM of. Hundreds of watts of power. A lot of hams play with high power wireless networking. Also, check out the ECHOLINK software. You need a callsign to use it, but it's more crossover. Though, something to keep in mind...Ham radio serves a purpose involving the civil defense. As a ham I can provide emergency communications services. Ham Radio, because it is a government sponsored license, carries certain privileges and resposibilities. Yes, there is a lot of crossover. I knew a gifted computer scientist in college who got his ham credentials out of a love of all tech (N2TL I do believe). I must admit, the ham scene does not benefit as much as the computer scene does. Most hams seem to be stuck in the windows/visual basic model when it comes to designing software. As most hams are...older...they shy away from linux and it's complexities. This is something that needs to be addressed. Maybe a Ham radio linux distro. 73's all--- KC2MMW

Forgot to mention...

[MsWillow]

Still waking up here, sorry. Anyhow, I forgot to mention that each dues-paying member of the repeater cabal had their own series of tones that identified them. The "social engineering" came from recording several different tone IDs, culminating with the repeater owner himself. Twas great fun as the owner tried to figure out a way that he and his clique could keep their private toy free of the riffraff *WEG*

Ahh, the joys of using in-band signaling :)

Re:Forgot to mention...

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of my circle of friends' memorable moments involved crossovers between ham radio/electronics and equipment hacking. Trying to figure out how to make things transmit where they weren't supposed to, the miniature CB transmitter with a large battery pack casually tossed in the annoying neighbor's shrubbery to raise hell with TV reception, the attempts to unscramble pay on-air TV broadcasts gratis...yep, it crosses over some...

Kazu explains

[Sai Babu]

Kazu tells the right and wrong of homebrew (building your own radio stuff). His comments apply to other technical endeavors.
"Make the block one by one. And you must check the movement of the block one by one."

Wrong homebrew and right homebrew

Kazu's site.

Also good is Harry's site.

Reading will unveil a touch of irreverance. You probably expected that ;-)

Hmmmm... ham......

[Anonymous Coward]

who cares about radio? I want ham!

Amateurs they aren't...

[Buzzwang]

In both areas, these people are highly skilled and capable.

I am a ham radio operator, and I've both seen and been involved with situations the required creative thinking, extreme problem solving and lots of outside-the-box thinking to get things done. If you need an example, then check out the video here and try to tell me otherwise.

Programmers, coders, hackers and even the everyday computer enthusiast use these same ideas and techniques to do similiar things.

The only real differrences between them:
Radio operators are licensed
Radio operators have a specific 'area' they can play in (radio spectrum rules, band plans, etc.)
Radio operators are encouraged to try new things.

Coders and hackers on the other hand, when trying to find new ways to solve old problems or improve on things that currently exist continually get hit with stereotypes, copyright infractions, patent infractions, lawsuits and the like.

What's the real difference? The law. Radio operators take a test and get licensed to do what they do. Perhaps programmers and coders should look at a similar thing that could perhaps one day stand up in court or something. I know that certifications exist (I hold a few myself) but perhaps some recreation of a GPL or GNU license could help in that regard. Something that you have to test for, like a certification, that would give you at least some limited legal ability to examine source codes, security flaws and such and legally work on them in order to help the owner improve their product(s).

I know it seems far fetched, but if a 16 year old kid can get legal permission to operate a motor vehicle at speeds well over what is required to decimate a mammal on impact, why can't coders get something similiar? Something that would give them a little legal protection and allow them to function much as the Ham Radio folks do?

Re:Amateurs they aren't...

[Teancum]

And you want to understand where the creative forces and the appeal to young people has gone out of ham radio?

I would also like to mention that even ten years ago there weren't nearly so many legal obsticles to software development. Certainly 30 years ago. There has been some recent legislation that has made software development a profession that almost needs a 1:1 ratio of software developers to lawyers, if not more lawyers than programmers. I don't think it is even possible now to write a serious application (> approx. 10,000 lines of code) without having violated some patent of some sort. And the larger and more versitile the software becomes, the more likly you will have at least one or more companies trying to stop you from distributing that software.

Also, the #1 thing that a computer programmer has to hold up for "certification": A B.S. (or B.A.) in Computer Science or similar specality. To be honest that is much harder to get than a Technician license from the FCC. While it is in theory possible to be a professional software developer without a formal degree, it is quite difficult and most companies won't hire you, even with years of experience. If instead you are working in another industry and just "dabbling" in computers, you really won't be able to compete with the professionals in terms of keeping up with trends in the computer industry or being exposed to a multiple number of coding techniques. Even many of the "Open Source" software projects have at least one full-time programmer doing some development on it, if they have become somewhat useful.

Also, besides the B.S. degree, if a 16 year old wants to get a personal computer and hack up a boot loader, write his very own operating system, and write a compiler for that OS, I say more power to them. I also hope they get a full tuition paid scholarship to just about any college or university that they care to attend.

Both Ham Operator and "Hacker"

[bitbreaker]

As a lot of people here in Italy, I'm both an Ham operator with Ham Licence (IW7DQB) and Professional Developer. When Internet access was not so cheap, I tried to connect thru my 144Mhz-transceiver and an homebuilt packet radio modem...at the wonderful speed of 1200baud/2400baud... Since then, both electronics and Computer science made my life more ... happy. ;)))

RadioShack selection.

[carlosh]

The variety of electronics parts out there make salmost impossible to RadioShack to carry a stock wide enough to keep you coming. Plus with Internet you can never run out of places to find stuff to order by mail.

And this is true for basically any serious hobby. like climbing? no store has all the brands nor all the new gear. a movie buff? better use the internet to find that hard foreign film. As long as is not perishable and weigths less than 20lbs, you're better of ordering by mail

Sadly the instant gratification and personal interaction is lost.

APRS

[Peter Simpson]

I once tracked my wife and son on www.findu.com as they drove the Camry that had formerly been mine (and so, came equipped with 144 Mhz antenna on the roof) across the country.

Technology in the car was a GPS, tone modulator/packetizer and cheap RadShack transceiver. The findu website and database technology is much more impressive, and the hierarchical network of receiving stations that upload tracking reports to the database is also pretty neat.

Re:APRS

[Anonymous Coward]

you sound like a creepy dude, no wonder your wife left you.

BPL will die

[Peter Simpson]

...because it's an analog technology, kinda like DSL on steroids...
Because it's hooked to high voltage power lines which attract lightning (not really, but they sure seem to).
Because it's expensive and dangerous to keep running.
Because it's owned by a company whose main business is not communications.
Because, if it radiates, it's susceptible to interference, too.
Given a choice, consumers won't take it unless it's better and cheaper than other alternatives, and it's already being dropped in Canada, UK and Europe, because it didn't live up to the promises.
And yes, I, too, feel that it was a sweetheart deal at the FCC, just like our loss of 220.

And it can't happen too soon.

(DSL is going away in my town. Verizon's running fiber to the premises. Let's hope BPL goes the same way as DSL)

Re:BPL will die

[LM741N]

Thanks Peter for the extra clarification on the issue. The ARRL (US Ham Organization) has been very alarmist about BPL, but they seem to be so freaked out because the Bush admin is pushing it, thus the FCC is pushing it. I guess the alarmist spin has effected me, as I am an avid DX'r (thats long distance work for the uninitiated) and even a light dimmer turned on in the house is enough to kill weak signal communications.

Rob

Re:BPL will die

[josecanuc]

Every signal transmission is analog at some point. That point is usually the "from here to there" point. Whether fiddling with (modulating) an alternating current signal to cause it to represent some datastream and then proceed to inducing electromagnetic waving of space or switching a voltage on or off, or high or low, electricity is analog. Light (including "radio") is analog.

I agree that BPL is going to die because of operational inefficiencies (i.e. it's not good technology), but of the reasons you list, "because it's analog" is not one of them.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Point being that a lot of the same people are (were?) drawn to both. But you're probably just some dumb cock who's in "IT" for the money, so you wouldn't get it anyway.

Put this in your metadata and smoke it

[claussenvenable]

Seriously! I was expecting an article on the similarities between software development and the painstaking process of crafting a fine, smokey Black Forest or a deliciously spicy-hot Coppa -- or at least something about ham in re spam.

Take that, semantic web!

Re:Put this in your metadata and smoke it

[SunPin]

Or just some ho-hos and Coke in a can.

Ham / Wi-Fi

[RecycledElectrons]

As we know, there are limits that the FCC sets on Wi-Fi (802.11) networking. I also understand that Hams can broadcast up to 200 Watts on these fgrequencies. So, I was studying to get a HAM license to play with Wi-Fi on my college's 500 acres (where I am a professor, and where interference would not be a problem.)

The problem is that no ham is allowed to broadcast an encrypted or encoded signal that the FCC can not intercept. Wi-Fi is considered "encoded" by the FCC, so my Tech (HAM) license gets me nada - zip - nothing.

We need to change this silly reg - atleast some classes of HAMs should be able to broadcast Wi-Fi at increased power levels.

Andy@SHTF.info

Re:Ham / Wi-Fi

[dougmc]

I also understand that Hams can broadcast up to 200 Watts on these fgrequencies.

Actually, hams can transmit with up to *1500* watts on *some* of those frequencies. But if you use spread spectrum, the limit is only 100 watts, and then only if your system is smart enough to automatically use only as much power as is needed. This site might help explain this a bit more.

Wi-Fi is considered "encoded" by the FCC, so my Tech (HAM) license gets me nada - zip - nothing.

This is not true. WiFi is certainly allowed under the ham rules, as long as you follow the other ham rules. Identification is the biggest one, but that's easily taken care of by using your callsign as your SSID. You won't be able to use WEP, however, and you won't be able to legally send encrypted things like ssh over the link.

We need to change this silly reg - atleast some classes of HAMs should be able to broadcast Wi-Fi at increased power levels.

Good luck with that (assuming that `that' = allowing encrypted transmissions.) Ham radio has always been readable by anybody who can receive the signal, and most hams seem to like it that way. I don't see this being changed.

AD5RH

Re:Ham / Wi-Fi

[Nate B.]

It may take some research to find, but one of the magazines (CQ VHF, most recent issue) had an article about a presentation to the ARRL Board of Directors. In it they outlined a proposal that may be made to the FCC requesting the removal of the encryption restrictions for several valid reasons, especially to meet the requirements of served agencies. Many agencies, according the article, are requiring secure communications from their ham radio providers and this is a real stumbling block for continuing to provide emergency communications.

I'm sure it will be several years before the FCC acts, assuming the proposal is filed with the Commission within the coming weeks.

Re:Ham / Wi-Fi

[sharkman67]

Not true, as long as the protocol is published it is OK to use. No encryption (WEP) and 100W are the only limit. The 100W limit is becasue it is spread spectrum. Other wise you can run 1500W on 2.4GHz if you want!

Re:Ham / Wi-Fi

[Anonymous Coward]

You dont see it being changed because most hams like it that way. And that is what keeps most new people out of ham. And that is why the average age of the ham operator is somewhere north of 57 years old.

And that is why amature radio is dying. I can only hope that when the ham population gets low enough, you crusty old bastards will open your minds to making the hobby accessable to people with new ideas, instead of keeping it the old boys club that it has become.

Potential for Software to Fade Away

[Teancum]

There are some problems right now in the computer industry, and unfortunately they aren't being addressed right now. I think you need to compare software engineering to nuclear engineering, and see how that now the current crop of high school students who want to get into computer science and software engineering are encountering some incredible barriers to being able to truly understand and work with computers from a hobbyiest viewpoint.

The growth of Linux certainly is counteracting that influence, but there are some things to worry about besides closed API's. It concerns me when CPUs are so incredibly complex that you get a crop of even seasoned software developers who are simply incapable of hand-assembling a piece of software. I'm not talking about doing this for the latest copy of DOOM III, but if you don't know how to hand assemble a simple "for" loop that does a quick bubble sort, you really don't understand the hardware that you are working on.

Also, while abstraction is useful, it is also important to have at least _SOMEBODY_ on a medium sized development team that can go all the way down to the gate level and understand just what is going on in the CPU, and to understand that while computer are fairly consistant, there are still time delays and quantum fluctuations that can affect a piece of software, sometimes even at the wrong time. If you look through the SETI@Home website, they mention that they have to on a daily basis reject some work-units simply because an add operation missed a bit in the carry network or some other similar random fault of the CPU occured. At some point software does have to directly interact with the physical level, and sometimes that happens just in RAM and the CPU itself.

While the above points might show some bias toward how I learned to program computers: On early mainframe computers and early 8-bit micros (where hand assembly was really the only way to do thing unless you had a few $$$ or took the time to write your own assembler), I would have to add that since the collapse of the internet bubble, I would also strongly discourage young people to even get into the industry right now. With significant numbers of software developers still out of work, incredibly intense competition to gettting what few jobs are around, and the outsourcing problems that are plaguing the industry shrinking the current number of jobs down even more, it is getting tougher to really break in. Essentially what I'm saying is that the computer industry right now is burning intelletual capital rather than trying to invest into its future.

If you are smart and want to get into a hot new industry that feels like the computer industry did 20 years ago, I would strongly suggest going into aeronautical engineering and try to join up with Bigelow Aerospace, Scaled Composites, or Armidillo Aerospace. Them and a dozen other companies right now are getting ready to boom, and that is going to further take away the creative types that earlier fueled the computer industry.

This is perhaps the #1 analogy that I can use with ham radio, which is struggling right now trying to attract the young smart minds that have the talent and the slightly off-axis humor to be able to build things like radio frequency jammers, blue and black boxes, or even computer virii. From doing those irreverent and potentially illegal in some context applications, many young people formed the skill sets that makes many of the advanced technology applications that we see today. I fear that the computer industry is losing that group in particular, and now all that is left are folks who can follow a recipie (script kiddies), but are incapable of coming up with anything like that on their own. Some of that is still left, but many school and university administrators are now beating out any creative urge in most schools in regards to computers.

I'm speaking now to the creative 1% of humanity who really makes things happen. They aren't missed right away when they are gone, but you eventually

Re:Potential for Software to Fade Away

[the_duke_of_hazzard]

I sympathise with your point of view, but hardware is pretty much just a commodity now. It's hard to find a software developer whose work needs to know about the gate level. I'd agree maybe to the assembler level, but even there, it's pretty rare these days that that's important.

When I interview I usually ask a C question about a function referencing a variable assigned in a higher stack frame, now freed. But that's more to see if they are a) interested in "how things really work", b) whether they've ever thought about it, c) how quick they can catch onto stuff etc., rather than any practical direct requirement for the job.

Software will become a commodity too. As a (really) smart co-worker of mine said some time ago: "Our job will have the status of TV Repairman in 25 years time".

Re:Potential for Software to Fade Away

[Wansu]

If you are smart and want to get into a hot new industry that feels like the computer industry did 20 years ago, I would strongly suggest going into aeronautical engineering and try to join up with Bigelow Aerospace, Scaled Composites, or Armidillo Aerospace. Them and a dozen other companies right now are getting ready to boom, and that is going to further take away the creative types that earlier fueled the computer industry.

Nah. A couple tragic accidents will take care of that trend. Besides, I remember when the bottom fell out of areospace in the early/mid 70s.

In this regard computer hobbyiests are a dying breed.

... just like the electronics hobbyists before them.

Re:Potential for Software to Fade Away

[Teancum]

While I would agree that designing airplanes is pretty much a dead end except for some very radical approaches like skyhooks and most of Burt Rutan's designs, the designs for spacecraft are just beginning. Indeed, there has only been one, yes count them one, manned spacecraft for pure point to point travel beyond the earth. And that is the Lunar Excursion Module, or the Lunar Lander. There is so much room for improvement on that design alone, not to mention many other more specialized spacecraft designs that will make the number of kinds of motor vehicles pale by comparison. That includes things like tractors, combines, mining equipment, ore hauling ships, and more.

And besides science fiction authors and movie studios, almost nobody has given any real thought about true spaceSHIPS. If Burt Rutan is to be believed that he wants to have affordable travel to the moon within his lifetime, there will have to be a space liner that travels from LEO to lunar orbit, and is manned with a crew comparable to at least current aircraft designs, if not with berths and potentially staterooms. While naval contractors can give some feeling for what would be needed, the only real comparison I can give are the old hydrogen/helium airships from the 1930's.

I also don't think tragic accidents are going to kill the current drive to get into space. There is too much pent-up demand that simply won't evaporate. While a couple of spectacular failures might slow things down a little bit, it won't be anything like the current pause in U.S. manned spaceflight after Columbia or as it was after Challenger. The real key is to get more than one company putting stuff into space besides Scaled Composites, and it looks like there are about a dozen companies that are going to really start to put things up. Some of them didn't even bother with trying to enter the X-Prize, because it would have distracted their attention from what they really want to do: Get into orbit.

Remember, the bottom fell out of the areospace industry in the mid 1970's because the Vietnam War was winding down, as well as the virtual dismantling of NASA and the layoff of engineers due to both military as well as civilian space contractors. Even the major aircraft companies were going with more stable designs, and most of the aircraft flying in airports had at least their origins from the 1960's, including the 737 and 747 aircraft, or even the DC-10. Only some of the Airbus or Embrair designs are more recent than 1975, and those were all done outside the USA. The only real new Boeing design that is in production is the 757 and 767 series, which are streamlined modifications to the 737 and 747 designs, slightly updated with new avionics and new materials, but clearly no radical change of philosophy or even engine propulsion plant than earlier aircraft. In short, a very stangnet industry. As for even rocket design, Boeing had to bring back a bunch of retired engineers to help update the latest Delta 4 rocket, as litterally they couldn't get anybody with the necessary skill sets to design an actual rocket.

The difference now is that all of the demand is from private citizens or industrial groups, and that is a source of revenue that doesn't have to follow the 4-year cycles of American political spending. They don't have to pay too much attention to stupid Senators like Proximire who tried and almost succeeded to kill space travel for almost 100 years. If regulatory issues become a serious factor, you will find Mexico becoming the next major spacefaring nation in the world. Right now there is intense pressure on the U.S. government to make this happen, and to keep the regulations down to an absolute minimum to keep otherwise innocent people (like the folks in Los Angeles if a mistake happens in Mojave) from getting injured or killed. And keeping silly things like a 4-door Gremlin from becoming a spacecraft when launched from a very huge slingshot or Catapult, even if from "Superman: The Ride".

Re:Potential for Software to Fade Away

[Anonymous Coward]

what about diy aircraft? ;)
if i ever get like ellison rich, thats waht i'm doing.
not just cute hobbyist things but some huge crazy delta wing design.

XASTIR

[n1ywb]

Best. ham. radio. software. ever. I wish every application was so great.

http://www.xastir.org/

Re:XASTIR

[josecanuc]

And changing every week. I've been using it since around 2000 and it's gotten quite a bit better since then.

There's even a few lines of my code inside it!

Community alliances

[df03Toasteroven]

Being a ham radio operator, a self-proclaimed computer nerd, a part-time college student with a part-time job in the computer industry I think that it's important to recognize the similarities of the issues concerning hams and hackers. The BPL issue is something which stings the buttocks of hams as much as the DMCA did to hackers. Taking bandwidth away from hams hurts them as much as the government attempting to take away the ability to make backup copies of legal digital-media. You'd be surprised how similar the mindsets of a ham and a computer-techie are. Particularly in my case since i'm both!! So my basic message is that hams and hackers should come together as a political force to lobby congress and get back the freedom to hack and transmit freely. I nominate myself as a potential leader for such a political lobby. We're holding a name contest for our newly created lobby. Also, we need money. And support. And people, too... that would be a good thing. Hams and Hackers Unite!!

hamsexy

[spoonyfork]

Need insight into the world of ham radio? Check out Hamsexy. Check out the image gallery for some good scares.

Open Source Hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

There are still quite a few hams who homebrew there own radio equipment.

Here is a good site about some hams who homebrew their own wireless LAN hardware, antennas, amplifiers and everything. They also document lots of other neat projects, like cellphone-to-ham converters and the van Eck stuff.

They even have open source microwave path analysis CGI utilities.

Saw this on RH - thought I was imagining it

[sczimme]

The other day I was trying to install 'Pink Tie' Linux on a laptop, and every time the [CD] boot process got to /sbin/loader there would be a kernel panic. D'oh! Anyway, the cap-lock and scroll-lock were indeed blinking in what appeared to be Morse Code. Go figure. (I didn't try to record the characters, though.)

Just one question for the submitter....

[Jtheletter]

So when exactly is your thesis paper on ham radio vs hobby programmers due?

morse

[helfen]

BTW - I'm currently learning morse code and I encourage you to learn it too. Here is quite good program that will teach you - http://c2.com/morse/

Re: Survival Research Labs

[jackrd]

This is a little OT, but I still think it's relevant; I was reminded of it by your last statement. If you aren't familiar with SRL, you should really check them out. From the telerobotics section:

"In keeping with SRL's mission of re-directing the techniques, tools, and tenets of industry, science, and the military away from their typical manifestations, several experiments were performed resulting in SRL being the first civilians to use free software and the Internet to provide remote, anonymous controllers for lethal devices over the web."

Even if it's not your cup of tea as far as "art" goes, it's hard to deny that they've done some amazingly complex and technologically sophisticated things. I don't know; there's just something about putting that much effort into something so...non-functional that serves to showcase the technology itself moreso than it's purpose (or even to make a point about its "purpose"), which I think is a good thing. I'm not denying there's useful things that should be done with technology. I just think it's great that it can be balanced out by making giant robots that eat dead animal carcasses.

Re:huh?

[StonyCreekBare]

And hams weren't? You need to read some history. In fact there is a pretty good case to be made that if not for the Hams, we would not have won WWII. And the "technology bubble" of the 1920's was largely driven by radio, and that was very much a "dramatic period of economic growth". Well until 1929 anyway. The similarities between then and the late 90's are many.

Peer to Peer wireless network

[celerityfm]

Indeed- Hams have already created a vast wireless network that will allow you to jump on the net wirelessly with better coverage then Verizon has to offer up...ok maybe not :)

I beleive there was recently an FCC ruling that said you could check your personal net email through digital modes or something like that.

Now, the bandwidth isn't so fat, but hams provide this service free if your licensed :) Of course, the equipment isn't free but thats another matter :)

Re:Both groups restrict members

[Anonymous Coward]

"The Hams required mastery of Morse code long after there was no real use for it in order to get an operator's broadcast license"

It's not a Broadcast license. hams are not broadcasters. That's ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox etc., for the folks in America, BBC for the Brits, CBC, CTV etc for Canadians. Hams transmit and receive signals between stations, they do not "Broadcast" for the enjoyment of a "broad" audiance. Hence the term broadcast. It's funny to see both Broadcasters and Hams misunderstand the term "Broadcast" and they think it is synonomous with transmit. It is not!

The Hams themselves did not require the Morse Code, though some were happy to see it stay, It was International and National Regulations that kept Morse Code as a requirement. Since the recent decision to drop this as an International requirement for High Frequency (Short wave) privilages, Nations have been dropping the requirement world wide, Canada and the United States have yet to do so but it may be in the works. It has not been required for VHF and higher frequencies internationaly for many decades and at least 14 years here in Canada. Not all of ham radio is talking around the world on HF and in fact short distance VHF/UHF/SHF/EHF operation for voice and data are far more common for various reasons.

Fun Stuff

[leighklotz]

I've been a ham since I was 7, but was inactive from the college years until recently. There's a tremendous number of things to do, from building your own low-power and medium-power equipment to computer-connected stuff, to Microwave (10 GHz is popular, and the 3.5 GHz band is getting more interesting these days too) and VLF (how about a signal on 176 KHz?).

Personally, I've ejoyed the following lately:

• PSK-31 -- a cheap soundcard-based text-to-text mode that uses only 31Hz of bandwidth and goes around the world on 5 watts
• XML for Ham Radio -- I've started a consortium to develop XML standards for ham radio, starting with an extensible logging format, and working with everyone from QRZ and eQSL.cc on the server side to xlog for Linux and Ham Radio Deluxe for Windows and others.
• RPSK -- a TCP/IP based protocol for remote operation of a PSK station with a Java applet client and a hiptop client. (The antenna is not hooked up right now so don't expect the applet to work.)
• HFPack -- portable and picnic table operation with HF radio; I talked to Estonia with an Elecraft KX1 and about 4.5 Watts
• An RSS feed for APRS -- working with APRSWorld I developed an APRS to RSS converter to help HFPackers let people know where and when they are operating, so people can listen for them.
• Kit building -- I have built an Elecraft K2, one of the most sensitive ham transceivers in the world, their KX1 (one of the smallest and most featureful), a Small Wonder Labs PSK-20 specific to PSK on 14.070 MHz, and a variety of American QRP Club and Four-State QRP Club kits. For more power, I built an 50 Watt HF Amplifier in a group project and am working on a 100W one.
• CW -- I learned Morse Code at 5 so it was easy to pick back up after a couple (ok, a few) decades of disuse, and it's been a blast as well.

Check it out and take a look at my Ham Web Log for more stuff.

Fractal antenna inventor

[willpost]

This was already documented, but it's a good story.

When Nathan Cohen first submitted a paper documenting his fractal antenna research to a scholarly journal, the editors thought it was a practical joke.

Essentially, he had discovered that bending conventional antennas into repeating geometric or "deterministic fractal" shapes helped save space and did not adversely affect reception. It's a very simple idea -- and that simplicity, coupled with the fact that Cohen is a radio astronomer by training, not a fractal mathematician, made the antenna an easy target for expressions of skepticism.

"It seems particularly ironic if you think about what I was really asking people to do: bend a 30-cent piece of wire," he says. "It's not like this is a hard experiment to reproduce."

Indeed, Cohen first conducted it on his own ham radio, which he was trying to operate in an apartment complex with a no-antenna rule. He, too, was something of a skeptic at the time, but that didn't prevent him from giving the fractal a chance.

In addition to making him an entrepreneur, Cohen says, the fractal antenna has made him a student once again. Understanding the subtleties of his discovery has required him to get better acquainted with electromagnetics, a discipline that is not his specialty.

Full Article:
http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/1998/12-11/featur es3.html

More photos of fractal antennas:
http://classes.yale.edu/Fractals/Panorama/ManuFrac tals/FractalAntennas/FractalAntennas.html

Already met

[Jozer99]

My favorite activity is hooking my 300 baud modem up to popular ham channels, and trying to connect to AOL. ;)

another site

[Anonymous Coward]

Another company I've seen that does some kind of PC to Radio interface is http://www.catcomtec.com/ They deal with the public safety sector more than Ham radios though.

Actually, it's not Morse code that hams use..

[the_rajah]

it's International code. Some characters in common, but many are different. One big difference is that American Morse Code actually uses spaces inside some characters while International code doesn't.

Morse Code is rarely used nowadays, while International Code is alive and well on the ham bands. 73 K9LJB

"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain

Hackers and Hams (Re:Out of the loop)

[Anonymous Coward]

I am aware of a couple of people famous for being both a computer hacker and a ham. Those being Bruce Perens and Kevin Mitnik. Who else should I add to my list?

Re:Hackers and Hams (Re:Out of the loop)

[n8ur]

Phil Karn, KA9Q and Bdale Garbee, KB0G, are two more.

Public wireless networking and packet radio

[oo_waratah]

We are trying to set up a public intranet. There is a chicken and egg of I wont join untill it reaches mass, it wont reach mass until people join. This means that there is no mesh and therefore the whole thing does not work.

I thought that using packet radio to cheaply join up the segments would be a good option and in the long term a viable safeguard on the intranet mesh itself.

Anyone done this?

Future Archeologist

[AntiCopyrightRadical]

Why is that whole article written in the past tense?

You know the story, Time travel to study the past, before the apocalypse. Trying to peice together a functioning human society. Someone in the past learns of this, and tries to change the future, hilarity or calamity ensues.

Maybe Seti@Home is about to find something very interesting, and they want to know what the radio/software world was like just before the singularity happened.

Lots of overlap

[Anonymous Coward]

There are plenty of examples of overlap between the two groups. Some of the overlaps are due to coincidences while others it is because of a similiar environment.

Probably the interest in Linux was due to the fact a lot of packet radio hams were running a Unix-like systems for years, called KA9Q NOS or Net. Linux was a nice upgrade because you got a similiar platform that didn't sit over DOS.

The Debian project in the early days had quite a few hams working on it. Part of that was Bruce Peren's efforts on the Linux for Hams CD which was going to be based on Debian, but Debian got bigger and took up most of the time.

The irony was that hamradio was one area that had , at first, an anti-free software community. It was due to misunderstanding but the place that produced a fair bit of free software was also the place that generated some of the dumbest licenses ever seen in software.

Certainly for me my progress through Free Software was all due to hams. My first Linux system was from a ham back in the 0.8something days. My choice to have my software licensed under GPL was also due to talking to some hams about the merits of Free Software and I am glad of that decision as was joining the Debian project.

Ham Radio/Linux cross fertilisation

[vk2ktj]

I thought about precisely the same relationship a number of years ago while maintaining the HAM or AX25 HOWTO documents for the LDP. I captured a number of technology cross-fertilisations that I'd collected from the ham and linux communities at the time.

I don't have any of them handy but one example was that of the PPP suite of protocols, which have their origin in Bill Simpson, who was an amateur radio operator who, if I remember the story correctly, started down the path to development of them in response to a need he had as a ham for something better than SLIP.

Then there is 'Karns Algorithm' referenced from the venerable "Internetworking with TCP/IP" (and numerous other places), which was developed by Phil Karn, KA9Q, of NOS/NET fame. Phil was a pioneer of TCP/IP over packet radio systems and developed his algorithm as a result of research based on amateur packet radio.

I'd collected at least a dozen of these, with some details from the people themselves, with the intent of writing a book at some time aimed at both audiences. Alas, time.

Terry

Ham Radio in a Changing Electronics Landscape

[ltkije]

Going to the Dayton Hamvention this year after a 20 year absence was eye-opening. There just weren't many people under 50 to be seen.

I think several trends are at work in amateur radio right now. First is that advances in chip integration have made it more difficult to homebrew equipment. There are fewer and fewer "catalog" parts around with simple functions. This, plus surface mount packaging, have made electronic products cheaper but electronic experimentation much more difficult for the average person.

Another trend is the commercial annihilation of distance. Talking across the country on two-way radio loses its thrill when one can do the same on a cell phone more or less for free, and much more reliably.

Software Defined Radio (SDR) is a bright spot in ham radio today. Forget about the Big Project flavor of Gnu Radio. Amateur SDR projects tend to be quite simple - sometimes ingeniously so - and approach the subject from the experimenter's point of view, not the engineer's. Most are based on the simple proposition that a recent commodity PC plus sound card make a pretty decent digital signal processor.

Organizations like ARRL and TAPR have encouraged digital radio up to and including SDR, though they have each tried to firmly guide the direction of amateur SDR. In fairness, ARRL has published many articles in its experimenter's magazine and in an excellent online compendium.

Two independent projects show the range of amateur SDR. The SDR-1000 is a hardware/software project turned semi-commercial, with a steep price of entry. Flex Radio Systems also has a unique definition of Open Source. On the other hand, the SDRadio project is an independent software receiver that is slowly morphing into a community effort. The project forum is brimming with good ideas.

There are other, loosely related projects such as narrowband signal processing and Digital Radio Mondiale (broadcast) decoders being done by hams. From these resources it's easy to see SDR as an emerging force in rejuvenating ham radio, even though today the various efforts are quite fragmented.

Very important

[StikyPad]

The difference is that most ham radio operators are still living with their parents and extolling the virtues of vacuum tubes, whereas most programmers are barely living at all.

Re:Very important

[Anonymous Coward]

"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character." - Ralph W. Emerson

BPL

[deadweight]

Broadband over Power Lines is a great example of the newer tech destroying the older tech. That will be something to document. (For those who don't know, traditional HF radio will be about impossible if BPL becomes common) Also might want to look into the anti-social aspects. For about 80 years prior to the PC becoming common ham radio was where people who did not want face to face contact hung out.

Folding Bike Users Seem to Overlap w/ Both

[Anonymous Coward]

See title.

PacketCluster

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose the question boils down to what is a hacker; a free thinking software designer perhaps.

Dick Newell of PacketCluster got his. A former DEC systems/utilities guy with a penchant for ham radio, Dick created PacketCluster the product, morphed it out to VC guys, left the world a better place and was last heard from building his dream home in the desert.

Now that's a great story!