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Microsoft Says Firefox Not a Threat to IE
KillaKen187 writes "A CNET article claims that 'just days after the launch of open-source browser Firefox 1.0, Microsoft executives defended Internet Explorer, saying it is no less secure than any other browser and doesn't lack any important features.' It's also interesting to note that these statements made by Steve Vamos, Microsoft Australia's managing director, come with no knowledge of what Firefox has to offer as he admits not even installing or using Firefox."
There are plenty of products out there with features we don't have. We have plenty of features that our customers don't use.
Indeed they do!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
From the CNET article:
English reiterated that features such as tabbed browsing are not important to IE users.
You can mark my word that IE will have tabbed browsing within 12 months from now.
And when *I* dream, I have a pony.
This will probably be offtopic, but during recent presentation on shares source initiative in Ukraine, the Microsoft representative started getting corruption messages from Powerpoint, and had to run the entire PPT file in OpenOffice, which he conveniently had on the laptop. photo1, photo2, the caption says "Microsoft Shared Source Initiative".
How can he say FF is not a threat if he hasn't even downloaded and installed it?
Many friends I know were reluctant about installing another weird name browser until I do it for them, and from then onwards IE is history
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
It's also interesting to note that these statements made by Steve Vamos, Microsoft Australia's managing director, come with no knowledge of what Firefox has to offer as he admit not even installing or using Firefox.
Did the former Iraqi Information Minister find a new job?
Microsoft executives defended Internet Explorer, saying it is no less secure than any other browser and doesn't lack any important features.
I only hope that the mangement at Microsoft continues to believe this statement for the forseeable future. Nothing could help Firefox more.
Say what you may, I use Firefox on all my ( windows, Linux, OSX, AIX, Solaris ) systems. I have taught other people such as relatives and firends the joy of Firefox, and they too have switched over too the new browser. Firefox is a revolution of people getting what they want from the web back. With a search bar, adblocking and pop up blocking, and support for all the major plugins ( like flash and java etc ...) Firefox is now the most nicest browser out their. And many websites are fixing themselves to work with FireFox.
Still using IE... never had any problem with these so-called "threats" that are constantly and tiresomely reported ad naseum here on slashdot. Never had a problem, never had a security issue, never had a cra
They claim that tabbed browsing is not a feature that their clients want, yet if you go to the windows page at microsoft http://www.microsoft.com/windows/default.mspx they have an option there that says "Want Tabbed Browsing, Search Toolbars, and More?". All those options suspiciously being features incorporated into firefox. Maybe they do see it as a threat after all.
No more of this quote. Please. Ever.
Both sides ignore and laugh at each other anyway. Who wins?
They can just keep repeating that they aren't afraid just to reassure themselves and their business partners. The statement that IE is not less, secure, well, is known false. The security is compromised the same moment they integrated the browser into the OS so tightly. Btw, the mere fact that they react on firefox shows its effect on the market. I think in the future firefox will steadily get a nice share of the browser market, when more and more users learn about its features. IE is just an ancient application, deprecated, and insecure (CERT says so, not me, before someone starts accusing me).
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Most people don't actually care. The vast majority of people simply don't know what a program is, what an operating system is, what a CPU is or whatever. To them, you click this little button to print, that little button to shutdown, and you click on "Internet Explorer" to "Explore the internet". That's why its such a great name for a web browser, and also the reason why Apple introduced a little "Browse the Internet" icon in MacOS 8 which launched your default browser. The real reason why Firefox is not a threat is because People Are Dumb.
This guy is a treasure trove of wit, here's another good one I noticed after re-reading a second time:
We take user feedback very seriously. If you have that feedback, then you should feed it back to us because we will feed it to the product team.
It inspires a poem:
Feed us the feedback double-quick!
When we've digested the feed then lickey split
Your browser we'll enance to make it more slick
But keep you safe from all harm? Well that's quite a trick...
Instead look at XAML - it makes buttons you click!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
First MS will lose the small 'at home' and business customers. Once these people are comfortable with the competition, the competition will seep into the big MS customers, for whom the 'small customers' are employees.
No, I'm not going to post this directly to you Steve, as I reckon you will ignore it.
This is a perfect example of why you want competing products in the world. The Microsoft rep is being disingenuous when he says that their customers don't want new features; the Microsoft way is to wait for customers to decide what they want, then make something just like it.
A resurgence in the browser wars will just serve to make both browsers better, and that's the way customers get better products. Since Firefox is an open project, there is no central company for Microsoft to destroy this time. We'll have to see how it all works out, but no matter what, it's good for the user.
If Ghandi had been going up against Microsoft, he'd be one of those happy friendly cartoon search agents now, like that puppy or that paperclip.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Steve Vamos, Microsoft Australia's managing director, says "There are plenty of products out there with features we don't have. We have plenty of features that our customers don't use."
Good job Steve, you just convinced me not to use MS products.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
First a famous quote is used, then it's overused, then you get modded up.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
It is for this reason, that the lab I administer has a Firefox link labelled "Internet" and all links to IE have been removed.
Well, then, we need a simple solution.
Firefox will, from this point forth, be renamed, "Internet".
Most people don't care because they don't realize there is even a problem with IE. They are the same people that don't know that their computer is full of spyware and other sorts of malware.
They don't see a problem, they don't even realize they have a choice when it comes to browsers. They just use IE because that is what is on their desktop by default.
People are dumb, but in a different way that you're thinking -- people are dumb because they don't really know what they want until you give it to them.
Microsoft itself, for instance, became a success by giving people what they didn't know they needed, or by filling a void that no one realised was there.
The fact that they're now playing the "our customers don't want it" card is proof how much their corporate culture has stagnated: people don't want things like tabbed browsing, because they don't know they can have them.
I just find it strange that almost every person I've ever introduced tabbed browsing to has loved the feature, even those that still prefer to us IE.
[ think ]
Or standards-compliant CSS rendering. You know, stuff like getting the fucking box model right and implementing at least FUCKING CSS 1 DAMMIT.
Sorry, forgot to take my pills. I'm off to the nurse.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
The Internet: Extreme
It worked for Intel...sorta...
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
The vast majority of people simply don't know what a program is, what an operating system is, what a CPU is or whatever... The real reason why Firefox is not a threat is because People Are Dumb.
I'm a programmer by trade, and I know all of these things, and I use Firefox. Am I dumb? Apparently not.
I know nothing about motor mechanics; if my car develops a fault, I take it to a garage. Am I dumb now?
I know nothing about building. If I needed an extension built, or a wall knocked through, or whatever, I'd go to a builder. Am I dumb now?
I know nothing about teaching. I may know the subject, but I know nothing about planning and preparing lessons, setting homework, or keeping a class full of students interested and engaged. Am I dumb now?
Because by extending your reasoning to other fields, I am, and so are you, and everyone else here.
People here need to stop being so elitist, and denigrating people just because they know less about computers than some arbitrarily determined minimum level below which the person must be "dumb".
It's official. Most of you are morons.
People are dumb?
My uncle is a PHD in Physcial Education, Business Adminsitration, Philosphy and more, travelled the word advising in various counties (Malaysia, Turkey, USA) on such things as setting up Universities.
He is now retired - and quite frankly is not interested in become a POWER USER. So damn right he wants to be told what he wants.
He is quite happy that he can browser the internet, do video editing and do letter writing.
I may well approach him with some great new feature, but I really don't think that it is going to change his "exprience" enough to be worth the time to explain why he should change.
I've been a long time IE user. Personally I've never had the problems with IE that others have had because I sat down and learned how to setup and use IE from the start. I memorized the operation of every last setting under the Tools->Internet Options dialog and adjusted them accordingly. I learned how to browse as securely as possible while watching what IE does very closely. Of course I'm not your average browser. Almost every setting I could find is set to prompt me, as I enjoy absolute control over things. This also alerts me to how complex some websites are in their attempt to invade your privacy. Just watching all the dialogs pop up for scripting and ActiveX is amazing. Also the hitbox'es, doubleclicks, and adtechs are really annoying.
Yesterday I downloaded and installed FireFox 1.0. I wanted to look at it and find out if it would suit me better since I still consider IE to be a little too proprietary in that it hides what it really does. So I am looking for something a bit more open.
After looking at all the features of FireFox I was amazed at how few things it allowed me to adjust. It doesn't have any of the options I am used to using under IE. Here are a few...
* Changing the temporary cache path?
* No option to clear cache when done?
* Inability to prompt me if I want scripts to run?
* Prompted cookie setting control?
* Inline images are either on or off. Eg, no ability to prevent animations (gif or otherwise) from running.
(This is frustrating. I want to see the original images, but I absolutely hate animations of any sort.)
* No Zones feature so that I can configure certain security options for certain sites.
* Installed security is to save passwords, allow web sites to install software, save form information, and Java is enabled?
(Of course IE is probably even more open, but the point is that FireFox is supposed to be secure right?)
* Many other configuration options are missing that would allow me to be prompted if I want to execute or do something.
I notice that tabbed browsing ends up using even more desktop real estate. I've never needed tabbed browsing before, all my windows appear on my Explorer task bar...just like tabs. I suppose tabs would be useful for people whos operating systems don't have a taskbar enabled shell.
Other that than the above observations I found Firefox to work fine. It didn't crash at all, but was a bit slower to render than IE. Only once did it redirect me to a website I did not type in the URL for. I just shut it down and restarted to fix that problem.
I find that I don't think I'll be switching just yet because of the inability to actively control scripting and the in-line image problem. If those issues are taken care of in the future, I don't know why I would stay with IE. Until then.
+1
How come the tabs don't respond to the Tab key?
In Windows, Ctrl+Tab will cycle through taps from left to right, whilst Ctrl+Shift+Tab will cycle the opposite direction. Standard Windows behavior.
Why do I want downloaded files to automatically saved to my desktop - what's wrong with "My Documents/Fire Fox/Downloads" so I don't get clutter all over my desktop?
Go to Tools, Options, Downloads, and change the default download directory if you'd like it somewhere else. Alternately, you can have it ask where to download every time.
I do not load "harmful ActiveX controls" but I want to load "useful" ones. In fact as a smart user I wonder how to make them work in FF? If a client of mine tries to use my web form (activex) doesn't see it he will get the shits with me - not his browser.
There are third-party ActiveX plugins if you really want them, but remember not everyone uses Internet Explorer or Windows - if I want to use my Risc PC to browse an ActiveX-based website, I'm out of luck. Beware of alienating a potential audience.
Google is part of my toolbar.
Firefox comes with a search bar built in, not tacked-on as a third party add-on, and supports plugins for virtually any other search engine you could think of. From my browser, I can instantly search Google, Amazon, the IMDB, Wikipedia...
I have the "Features you are used to" because I got used to them in IE.
Virtually every feature you'll use commonly in IE is present in Firefox, many done in a superior way. Granted, some pages fail to render properly in Firefox at the moment, but for the vast majority there are no problems.
Meanwhile, 'Fox has many features that are a godsend in day-to-day browsing. Pop-up blocking? I've found many manage to sneak through in IE 6 SP2, whilst Firefox not only can block popups more consistantly, but also supports blocking images through a simple right-click.
Tabbed browsing is something you have to experience to realise why you need it - if you're browsing along and find something you want to read later, just middle-click to open it in a new tab, still browsing in the same window. It just works.
And tomorrow the stock exchange will be the human race
If you drive your car into a tree because you don't know how to steer, you are dumb
If your car comes to a halt because you don't know to put gas in it, you are dumb.
If you cause a lot of damage to your car because you burn it out because you never replace the oil, you are dumb.
There is a certain minimal skill and intelligence level required to simply drive and maintain a car safely. Most people have it.
There is a certain minimal skill and intelligence level required to simply operate and maintain a computer safely. Most people don't seem to want to get it
But... But... I just got used to Firefox! We've already seen two name changes, no more please - I beg you!
An UNINSTALLER!!!
That is all well and good but there are something like 200 million Windows users out there who aren't bound by the dictates of an all-powerful system administrator.
Well obviously they should be!
The ability to monopolize a planet is insignificant next to the power of the source.
And those in the blue states will claim to have invented it.
They, uh, did.
The Firefox link should read 'Porn' and the IE link should read 'Goatse'. For further effect (and to ward off users not knowing the horrors therein), set the IE home page to goat.cx.
;)
Problem solved.
ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
Congratulations.
I know nothing about motor mechanics; if my car develops a fault, I take it to a garage. Am I dumb now?
Knowing nothing about the mechanics of such an expensive piece of machinery is a quick way to get ripped off. Even compared to a JiffyLube for $20, you can save half by doing it yourself. I may be a network consultant, but I am quite comfortable seeing to the needs of my own automobile and have in the past changed everthing from oil, to spark plugs, to alternators, to oxygen sensors. None of which are as difficult as I or other might have imagined. Pick up a tear-down manual for your car at AutoZone for about $14 and knock yourself out.
I know nothing about building. If I needed an extension built, or a wall knocked through, or whatever, I'd go to a builder. Am I dumb now?
Construction is another area of greatly marked up labor. Basic engineering principles are easy to master and will save you thousands. I learned most of mine working on a low-slope/commercial/industrial roofing crew in the summers in college. I have also picked up carpentry, mansonary, and electrical along the way. Trust me, DIY projects will save you loads of cash and are not difficult to master. Start small, work you way up. That hole in the sheetrock you have a picture hung over is a nice small place to start learning. The most satisfying project I have completed are the two walk-in closets in my master bedroom complete with loads of built-ins.
I know nothing about teaching. I may know the subject, but I know nothing about planning and preparing lessons, setting homework, or keeping a class full of students interested and engaged. Am I dumb now?
I am not a "teacher" but I tutored people in college and also created the format for a 2-week summer computer camp that introducted K thru 4th graders to basic computer concepts. I can say without a doubt I learned more while teaching other people than I ever learned while other people were teaching me.
Because by extending your reasoning to other fields, I am, and so are you, and everyone else here.
People here need to stop being so elitist, and denigrating people just because they know less about computers than some arbitrarily determined minimum level below which the person must be "dumb".
It is not elitest to say someone is far from well rounded. Specialization is the autobaun to obsoletion. My social circle includes no other "computer people" but I have taken the time to learn wines (nice course at a local university), cigars (even though I don't smoke them more than VERY RARLY, being able to talk to an aficionado is a great way to start a conversation with them, a possible future client). I am not inclined to follow pop culture but I read People, US, etc., so I have something to chat up those interested in it about. I have picked up on while living in Miami Beach, Haute Couture, Haute Cuisine, styles of Architechture (followed that through with an Architechture Lecture at a local university, facinating stuff, Miami Beach is the only place you will find Tropical Deco), furniture design, more sports than I can count, and having a best friend that is a film festival coordinator I have learned a load of things (namely occupations) that I never imagined existed. I never knew existed. Computer People need to expand thier world to other things (and that doesnt mean reading about it on the computer, that's cheating, get outside) and non-Computer savvy people most definatly need to learn more about computers as they are a tidal wave on the horizon that will (more than now even) infultrate the very fabric of their existence. I by no means think that I am even close to well rounded, I have a long ways to go before I can begin to consider resting. It is, however, unforgivable for a person to *choose* to remain ignorant.
Leonardo Da Vinci never announced "I'm an artist, what do I care about engineering?"
The best idea is to fool the users. Keep the E icon for Internet Explorer, but have it point to the Firefox executable. That's idiot-proofing.
;)
A friend of mine who is in charge of a bookstore had a similiar experience. He installed Firefox on all the machines, then deleted all the shortcuts and references to Internet Explorer. Shortly after, he had employees asking him where IE was, despite an icon on the desktop that clearly read "Mozilla Firefox Web Browser".
Eventually, some users would go back and find ways to run IE (whether through MS Word or Start -> Run). They spent more time trying to find/"reinstall" the IE rather than simply starting Firefox, simply because they were too scared to try a new program!
Finally, he kept all the IE links and icons, but changed the executable to point to Firefox. No complaints since then.
The main thing is that people are stubborn and too timid to bother learning a new program. I guess it can be an intimidating thing, so I don't blame them. Ultimately, I think we'll get a decent market share, it will just take time. It's taken a bit of prodding, but I've eventually gotten many of my friends and even my parents to switch to Firefox exclusively.
If you give a caveman a chainsaw, you'll hear similar complaints...
"Where's the wood handle?"
"There's no leather thong to hold the rock in place"
There's no ROCK!!"
"Whats this handle with the string running through it?"
"The flat thing sticking out is TOO uncomfortable...and I can't make a cut with the big yellow blocky thing at the end"
"And these points on the thin handle...way too sharp and hard on my hands"
I bet our admins WISH they could script the uninstalling of IE. Remember, if you "uninstall" IE, you really just remove the front-end iexplorer.exe program and not the REAL IE (all the DLL's that really make up IE and that is "integrated" into MS Windows). So MS Windows desktops are still at risk to IE vulnerabilities even if you "uninstall" IE.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
Info and download here.
The real path to male liberation
I've worked as a tech support agent (on the phone) for over 4 years now and one thing i figured out is that people is not STUPID. They are COMPUTER IGNORANTS which is very different, believe me, once you teach them how to do something they'll never forget (unless it's a really complicated thing for them like changing TCP/IP settings).
What firefox needs is a new name like "Firefox Internet Navigator" and to execute a tutorial on how to use it on the first run.
Just my $0.02