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Opera Facing Losses While Firefox Usage Grows
An anonymous reader submits "Opera, the sometimes forgotten #3 web browser, reported a third quarter loss that tripled that of last year's third quarter despite a seven-fold increase in revenue. Opera is blaming a weaker dollar for the losses, and say they're spending money on marketing and new ventures like teaming with IBM to use their ViaVoice technology. Opera's future seems uncertain as Firefox's growing popularity may hurt Opera by stealing potential customers. With Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari all free, is there room for a non-free browser in the market?"
That's hardly the bio of a company losing market share. It seems what THEY ARE failing to do is keep their operating costs under control. Even though that rate of revenue growth cannot be maintained in the long run, seems to me like what's really dead is their management for not being able to turn a profit with such revenue numbers.
A blog like any other.
I remember when I used to actualy use Opera. I think the only reason I used it at the time was because it supported tabs. Gradualy my intrest in it dwindled. It didn't support CSS properly, plugins were a hassle. I tried it again a year or two ago, and immediately deleted it. Nothing turns me off from a piece of software like a damned banner ad in the main window.
stuff
I must say that although I am still an Opera user now (it still wins in the customization department), if Firefox added in the massive ammounts of neat extra features Opera has (someone make an extension! please?), I would switch. Firefox seems to be just as fast, plus I love the security of open source. So Opera better change their buisness model, and fast, because Firefox is bound to have all their features eventually.
WASTE - The Secure P2P
Yes. There is. As long as the others are not suitable for embedded applications Opera shall live. Mozilla has a project to do this, but it is still way off...
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And it so happens that the fittest is currently also free :)
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There's room but only as a value-add or niche market.
There's room in the "small embedded" market, such as cell-phones and PDAs, and some vendors that bundle software may prefer a commercial vendor with paid support, especially for things like home-entertainment boxes.
I don't see your typical computer maker shipping a paid-for browser unless they get a REALLY GOOD DEAL, but I do see them shipping a mozilla-based browser.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I started using Opera about four years ago and quickly became hooked. Gestures, fast rendering, etc., made me an instant fan. The single (non-flashing) ad in the corner didn't really bother me.
At some point I'd used it enough that I figured it was worth paying some back, so I registered it (ironically, it looked wierd at first without the single ad block). Best $40 I've spent on software.
I haven't had to pay for an upgrade since then, and I've installed it on my computer at work, my laptop, and my new desktop. At some point I may have to kick down again and I'll probably do it, just like I bought Doom I after playing the hell out of it.
I've used Mozilla a little bit, but it was back when it was way more kludgy than I hear firefox is. I know that I could get a gesture patch and all, but I guess I'm happy with the way Opera handles just about everything (though I still have to load ol' IE to get at my bank's web page and my work's exchange server).
I appreciate the benefits of open source, and at some point I'll probably migrate to Firefox (at the very least it's good to know that if Opera goes under I have a great alternative). But for now, that's one for-profit organization that is building a very good piece of software and has brought some serious innovation to the browser world - I, for one, hope they are able to stick around...
I can't speak for 1.0, but I ran some tests on some large, simple-layout web sites comparing FF 0.92-or-so and Mozilla 1.7-or-so to Opera 7.53-or-4 a few weeks back.
Opera was several times faster than Mozilla. Firefox was about the same as Mozilla. A page that took 10 in Mozilla and Firefox.
All tests were done with local files.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I used opera a couple times. My faviorite was the "bork bork" version wich translated msn.com into sweedish chef in response to msn.com perposly making itself look broken to the opera browser. Link here to the slashdot story on it: http://slashdot.org/articles/03/02/14/1256231.shtm l
All misspellings and grammatical errors in the above post are intentional and part of my artistic expression.
hah... slashdot blocks that validator from checking its homepage... try http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.calcg ames.org/sd.html (html from slashdot home page)... i wonder why slashdot blocks the validator...
No, this proves that they're in bed with the evil corporate monster Microsoft. On the other hand, shows that they're in bed with those darn communist Linux users. And Apple. And BSD (is that necrophilia?). Even the US Government get in on the action.
Seriously, there are branded versions of Google for just about everything you can think of. It's not just Firefox.
I've never ever seen the inside of a Chinese home, that doesn't mean that there aren't several hundred million of them, does it?
As for not having any reason to pay for some "unknown" web browser unless it has some amazing features, well, have you considered that the very reason that people do pay for Opera, when there are plenty of free alternatives available, is because it does what it does amazingly well?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I've been an Opera user since verison 3 and it's still my favorite browser.
I recently tried Firefox 1.0 and I still like Opera better. Firefox has tabs, but I couldn't put them at the bottom of the screen. And with Opera I can have two sites open -- one with pictures on and one with pictures off -- at the same time.
And there's a buttom on every window (or "tab") that lets me switch between "author" mode and "user" mode. That means if I come across a website that has say yellow text on a white background I can press this button and it'll change to black text on a white background.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Offtopic, but..
Some of us like our water clean.
So, you'll instead have BOTTLED tapwater?
Check out those little notices with 2 pt font on the bottles...more than a few of them say somewhere "Water source: Municipal water plant of Detroit".
Actually, there are multiple results on various research projects that state that your standard tapwater is usually better than any of those bottled ones. Some study stated that the municipal tap water of New York was cleaner (fewer bacteria, fewer toxins) than something like 95% of the bottled water products...
Also, check out the Penn&Teller's Bullshit episode on bottled water.
Opera still blows other browsers out of the water on Windows (yes, that includes Firefox). It's the fastest graphical browser with the best CSS support I've seen. And even with mail, news, IRC and address book included, it's a smaller download than Firefox.
And let's not forget that Opera pioneered many of the features we've come to love, and apparently continues to do so.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
IMO, Opera is an OK browser. My biggest complaint is the ad boxes on the free version. I could just pay for it, but why would I when firefox is at least equally good?
If opera ever wants to get any real market share, they are going to have to release their browser free and without ads.
I don't think they need to open source it. It'd be nice, but its realy too much to ask. And besides, how many mozilla or firefox users here compiled from source?
Opera is like the BeOS. It's great, but unknown and unloved. If it goes under, it will take the rest of the world years to achieve the same level of excellence. Unless, of course, they open-source the whole thing.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
http://www.google.com/opera - look at this one...
And this page?
In Opera, the sections are numbered. In Firefox, they are not.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
as much as i like firefox and mozilla, i still use opera and will continue to use it because it seems faster on my machine, has features and functions and an interface that i'm very comfortable with.
also, opera handles the type of browsing i do that firefox has issues with... loading about 40 tabs at once and going back and forth between them. firefox bogs down when i use it the way i want to use it...
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
It makes sense with voice recognition on embedded platforms (PDAs, cell phones), which happens to be Opera's main market.
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To clarify that, it uses Google AdWords... so in true SlashBot style, it must be good!
Seriously, it'll track just like Google AdWords does elsewhere on the web. I've paid for the full version and personally, I find it well worth it.
Yes, have adds, yes, have some compatibility problems, dont have the extensions that Firefox/Mozilla have, yes, is not open source (to differenciate with "free", as you can get it without spending money).
In the other hand, is pretty stable (well, using 7.6 beta 2, i can leave some room for problems), it displays slashdot pretty well (with firefox, sometimes the content move to the black area on the right, a problem that had also Tikiwiki as explained here), it loads FAST and is pretty compact, the ads are text based (bit dependant on content like gmail ones, and i could re-register if want them off), have a good mail client, it have even a good rss reader integrated, and surely have some other nice features that i dont explored yet. Uh, and of course, gmail works with it pretty well.
Why that last switch? Installed firefox 1.0 RPM from SuSE and started to have problems (well, the right col bug problem was there from some time), firefox sometimes dont load (have to kill the task to retry), sometimes load, but don't display anything on browser's window (seems to work, just not show) and sometimes works. Of course, had to reinstall most themes/extensions, and somewhat between 1.0rc and 1.0 decided to disable the open of new windows from web pages.
I could had try to install another/newer rpm or from other format, clean configurations and try without extensions/themes, and so on... but too i can play a bit more with Opera and leave that test for later.
About opera's "market share", well, that seem to run well in the embedded market. Being small, with low requirements, fast and multiplataform enough are good advantages there and where hardware is not at the top. And for normal desktops still is a good alternative.
note: if you do not have a valid eula for any "os product" (including, without limitation, microsoft windows 98, microsoft windows nt 4.0, microsoft windows 2000, microsoft millennium edition, microsoft windows xp, or any other microsoft operating system that is a successor to any of the foregoing operating systems) you are not authorized to install, copy, or otherwise use the os components and you have no rights under this supplemental eula.
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If you're going to be stuck with adverts, wouldn't you prefer they were relevant to what you're doing, rather than just constant penis enlargment spam (unless of course your browsing penis enlargment sites ;)
I spent ages trying to think of sig, but never did
Amazing features is _exactly_ what Opera has:
I am a happy Opera customer, though the browser can be downloaded and used at no charge (just an a ad bar to put-up-with). I _highly_ reccomend trying out Opera if you haven't...the mouse gestures alone are enough to make a person switch.
On the rare occassion I have to use IE, I habitually try mouse gestures and spend a moment confused as to why it isn't working!
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I'm an Opera user a vast majority of the time and for good reason. I find that Opera's interface is much better than Firefox's, mainly the keyboard shortcuts.
I'm one of those people that will use any keyboard shortcut at any time.. atl-tab, window-d, alt-f4, all the copy/paste stuff. So when I learned some easy combos for doing things in Opera, I was hooked.
For instance, to bring up your home page in Opera all you do is hit CTRL-Space. You can do it with one hand, left or right. Know what the key combo in FF is for the same function? ALT-Home. Kind of bothersome. I could use one hand to hit that combo, but I could only use my right and it would be a little awkward.
Same thing goes for browsing back one page. In Opera it's Z. In FF it's ALT-back arrow. New tab in Opera is CTRL-N. New tab in FF is CTRL-T. I could go on and on about Opera having easier/more efficient shortcuts.
The thing about FF's keyboard shortcuts is not that I can use them with one hand, but rather they aren't terribly efficient. It seems like a lot of the combos take your fingers away from the home row, which is where I typically position my hands at.
If there could be some kind of extension to allow changing of keyboard shortcuts, I would switch to FF in a second, but for now I'll stick to Opera.
Couldn't the statistic on Opera usage be largely scewed by the fact that it makes it very easy to identify as Internet Explorer? I think more and more people are discovering that just leaving the identification as IE gives them much less of a hassle. Personally I've started identifying as GoogleBot, since it makes a lot of sites behave much more nicely.
NOTE: IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A VALID EULA FOR ANY "OS PRODUCT" (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, MICROSOFT WINDOWS 98, MICROSOFT WINDOWS NT 4.0, MICROSOFT WINDOWS 2000, MICROSOFT MILLENNIUM EDITION, MICROSOFT WINDOWS XP, OR ANY OTHER MICROSOFT OPERATING SYSTEM THAT IS A SUCCESSOR TO ANY OF THE FOREGOING OPERATING SYSTEMS) YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO INSTALL, COPY, OR OTHERWISE USE THE OS COMPONENTS AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS UNDER THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA.
Linux includes the GPL as its license, therefore you have a valid EULA for an OS Product, right?
It says "including, without limitation" there, which does not seem to indicate that the limitation is to a Microsoft-owned OS. If you used IE on a Macintosh, for instance, then your OS Product is a product of Apple opposed to Microsoft, right?
Not for long if Minimo has anything to say about it.
"But I'm still right here, giving blood and keeping faith. And I'm still right here."
A while ago, when mozilla was first released in source I used to use it as a benchmark for burning in new machines (it took a long time to cook one).
Oh boy. twenty different object orientated frameworks and and and. About 1 million lines of code. (I know that's an underestimate).
Never thought anybody would be crazy enough to actually pick up that stuff and run with it.
Too much of a coward myself.
It's a *lot* harder to tear down something and keep it sane than to rewrite. But the firefox crew
(much to my great admiration) managed to do just that. We know it's tough guys. You did a great job. Hope you manage to resurrect composer too...
It's nice to know that great software engineering is alive and well. (Guess what browser I'm using).
Sorry to the Opera people, but the honest truth is that when you insisted on advertising in your browser we all instinctively thought spyware, malware other stuff. You should have reacted to how the world has changed if you wanted to stay in the running...
The reason why I use Opera is because I get all that I want in one convienent package, instead of having to hunt down all these extensions and install them. Then to only to have them break whenever I upgrade Firefox. Also, Opera is the *only* browser I have used that gets tabbed browsing right.
Don't get me wrong, Firefox is a great browser still. I recommend it to people, and I have it installed. But I primarily use Opera.
However if I'm forced to pay for every critical ancillary peice of software in my OS of choice then computing becomes prohibitively expensive. I have 5 seperate machines in the house so paying for 5 copies of Opera for all those machines would get expensive. I'm also considering replacing both me and the wife's machines with Mac's vs PC's and delegate the largest machine to a glorified Xbox until Linux gaming comes around. I appreciate Apple's family license which would fit perfectly within my budget and comes with everything we need for day to day use of the internet. Firefox or Safari works just fine for what I need it for. Opera while a great browser, is hard to swallow when there's free competition. They would be better served supplying browsers for CE devices like cell phones and PDA's. Of course you also have to worry about those devices turning to Linux in the future also in which case you probably will see FireFox being used there also.
Of course, the end of the sentence you are referencing says "OR ANY OTHER MICROSOFT OPERATING SYSTEM THAT IS A SUCCESSOR TO ANY OF THE FOREGOING OPERATING SYSTEMS", which in fact does seem to indicate that the limitation is to a Microsoft-owned OS.
Since it defines "OS PRODUCT" as a MICROSOFT OPERATING SYSTEM, WITHOUT LIMITATION (meaning any MS OS or derivative/successor OS), anything not under a MS EULA license (meaning: everything but Windows products) are not covered, and thus cannot use it.
--- "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." -- Robert Heller
So you're suggesting the people who buy licences for Opera after having had the chance to test drive the free version indefinitely are doing so because they feel sorry for Opera the underdog, for speed over compatibility (care to share with us your list of Opera's incompatibilities?), because they get a warm fuzzy feeling spending money when they don't have to or because they've been duped into doing it because they don't know anything about computers and are either too scared or too stupid to know any better?
I hope your post was a deliberate attempt at trolling because, quite frankly, you're an idiot if you believe even one of those is true.
People buy Opera licences because they like the software, they consider it to be of benefit and they consider the $39 cost of a licence money well spent. It's that simple.
Take Firefox's top ten most raved about features. I guarantee you at least half, if not almost all of them, were Opera innovations: tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, pop-up blocking, etc all were developed by Opera first and copied by others later. And, if you want these features in a fast, tightly integrated packaged, Opera still wipes the floor with Firefox, Mozilla, Safari, MSIE and any other browser you care to name.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Safari is KHTML. Which is free.
Safari just adds some extra features that provide integration into OSX and promote a consistent iLook-and-iFeel... it sort of doesn't mean much unless you _already_ have OSX.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
I've been using Opera for more than 3 years now and still think it's the best browser out there.
There are a lot of small features that keep me hooked up on it, which I couldn't find in Firefox. It has it's problems, too, but I can cope with that.
If some sites don't work with Opera, well, I don't visit the sites! I think it's the webmaster's responsibility to make his site work properly with all browsers, if it doesn't, it means the web site was designed by sloppy web developers or their mind and soul is sold to m$.
Unless your site is gmail (which is more a client-side application than a web site), technically, it IS possible to make it work with opera, so when a web site tells me that I should use IE 6, I tell it to go to hell, where it belongs (that's my new definition of hell, btw - being forced to use IE).
I think the only problem with Opera being widely accepted is that it's not free. If the guys at opera gave it away for free (just the browser, without M2, chat and other advanced features for the Pro version), we could see real competition on this market and Opera would quickly start to climb up.
Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to point out the list of incompatibilities because the place where the browser compatibility matrix was stored is down. But hey, you've proven to me that you fit into category #2, since you haven't noticed. Maybe everyone who uses it fits into category #2; I was just trying to think of reasons.
To give you a general overview, Opera does not support the DOM, which means that you can't use javascript to access or manipulate pages very well with it - you can't expect DHTML to work as well on Opera as on the other two. This makes it a lot easier to be fast. I used to always check my scripts with the latest version of Opera, and look at the Opera specs to see if there was support for the functionality I wanted, but I stopped doing that. It's clear that Opera does not see the need to build this functionality into its browser.
This, by the way, is my favorite feature of Mozilla because I know it's pretty much the hardest to implement, and they worked hard to make sure it worked.
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