Slashdot Mirror
India Debating Manned Space Flight
alphakappa writes "India's moon mission and other space programs have been covered before on Slashdot. India is now debating sending a manned space mission and has acknowledged it's technological preparedness to do so in the next 6-7 years if given the go-ahead. The issues being debated before starting work on the mission include cost-benefit and other space priorities. (These missions also play host to international experiments) What does the general slashdot crowd think of these space plans?"
why does it interest us? Because it is India? What about China, Canadian and other groups wanting to go to space?
Iraq wanting to go to space? That would be interesting.
There a few imbalances in the world that need to be sorted out and space is one of them. The more the merrier.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Any offsite expainsion of the human race is welcome. We can't continue to depend of the Earth for everything.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
In view of the problems we've had with the shuttle, I think the more countries that can send people into orbit and retrieve them, the better. We should make available to India and China our docking adapter plans and technical assistance, so all spacecraft can dock to a common interface.
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
For India, this actually has a lot of benefits.
.. and pharmaceuticals in zero G environment without having to pay for expensive robotic equipment ..and yes lives on the ground will be saved by the economic and social benefits of being able to do this kind of research.
Ironically the USA at this point doesnt have the same benefit return on manned spaceflight that India has.
1) Commercial satellite contracts will be easier to get for a variety of reasons and insurance of those launches cost less as well
2) it will encourage indian kids to get into science
3) Reduce dependency on imported foreign technology by developing local talent in engineering and also the extensive IT etc. other support systems needed. Depending on imports is fine, but you need to have knowledge in case there is a loss for some reason.
4) Having a missile program is good for defense (sorry but its true given the way the world is, with all the whacko rogue states running around)
5) Be able to hook up with the ISS and carry out experiments in semiconductors (crystal growth)
The more countries we have going to space the less chance there is of our own space program stagnating. Competition will keep our Congress people's attention. Even if they would rather put the resources into another payraise for themselves or Halliburton, they will have to think about the stigma of the US losing its place as the world leader in space on their watch.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!" -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
You can blame Carter for causing the 15% inflation rates during the 70's for driving up costs. That 5 trillion dollar surplus was an estimate of what would come in at the current rates. That estimate was based on prediction before the tech buble burst. After the buble burst those predictions went right out the window. Current inflation rates are around 1%.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
India of course has a segment of their population that is tech-savvy, but that does not mean the rest of the country is doing well. They have about one billion mouths to feed over there and exploitation of space ought to be one of their last concerns.
That being said, they have an ocean on their border and it seems a much more worthy opportunity that would lead to being able to adequately take care of their population by exploiting that, and developing science that is marine-based, as opposed to space based.
Yeah, because we have to spend five times that much to give payola to tobacco farmers. Not that I'm bitter.
I'm a nature photographer.
Other than the "neato" factor? I'd think, after Hubble, and the (still going) mars rovers, that we'd be able to do neater things with unmanned space flights, and we would have to worry less about things like food, water, and air.
Not trying to be a killjoy, I'm just curious.
ceci n'est pas un sig.
"I'm frankly sick of all the damned jingoism and nationalist fever in the red states" ...whereas there's none of that in the red state of China? No self delusion and jingoism in China? None at all?
Eliminating the space program won't help him!!
.. that goes a long way compared to the additional 50cents that could be given to each individual in India by not having a space program.
.. that's just 50 cents per person in india (India has over 1 billion people).
The space program will help by providing jobs and encouragement to learn science
India's space budget is only 550 million
Please find less wasteful program to bitch about instead of one that encourages science and will improve the agricultural, health, and economic condition of people.
Comparing India and Pakistan is inappropriate. India is the world's largest secular democracy, with a healthy mix of various ethnicities and the like, with over a billion people. Pakistan is relatively smaller, and is an Islamic fundamentalist dictatorship with a military general.
While India's technological developments are said to be largely inhouse (they had a little help from Russia in the 1980s, but Russia had to stop helping them after pressure from the US), Pakistan's technologies are largely borrowed from China.
There is a big difference. India is a progressive economy with a very liberal-minded population, you can be fairly certain that they won't blow up anyone first. Pakistan is a conservative Islamic nation with a military ruler, you never know how they would react.
I've interacted with several Indians - but for the cultural "oddities" they are excellent people.
Vote for a Man, Vote for Bush!
Not a liberatarian flipflop hippie.
Wow it looks like I crossed the line in this post and I apologize. Yes I know that India can and will have formal Space Program, with nothing funny about it. But to most Americans the way that some areas of highly populated sections India and how the people deal with public transportation. Seems very crazy to us. But I am sure for other people the fact that every person has a Gas Guzzling SUV that can cross the Rocky Mountants off road is just as if not more exsessive and seems crazy.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I am sick of such messages which regularly appear on the topic of some technological development in the developing nations. And these messages get moderated as +5 Insightful.
If I were to use the same argument, then US should spend a little less on defence and bring the number of people below povery line to zero.
There are over 1 billion reasons not to go.
The money should be spent on agricultural research and improved infrastructure.
The average annual income in India is $450.
Being an Indian, I feel strongly about it as well.
Your comment is ignorant.
You can can toss all the money you want and it will not fix the situation and possibly make it worse. The issue isn't the squalor they live in, for some of those people they don't see it as squalor. Many live as those who lived before them and it is by OUR standards that their living standards are not acceptable. You cannot buy them a new lifestyle. You cannot pay them to think and act differently.
Sure spend some money, but also realize that the national pride will go a lot further for many Indians with a successful space program. It allows them to dismiss people who constantly call India "3rd world". Too many people see that country as "3rd world" while ignoring all they accomplished.
Why do people mostly complain about DEMOCRATIC countries that do this but give a pass to China who not only throws a ton of money into their space race, their military, and such and at the same time likes to whack 5000+ of thier own people?
India is progressing nicely, I don't think they need our Western standards to intefer with a job they are doing.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Don't forget, this particular wheel is a precursor to ICBM's. The US isn't going to share all the technology related to space flight, so China and india have to use a public program to get these technologies themselves.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
The Race for Space was an expensive bugger, but it was also a time of great innovation.
I welcome the Chinese, and the Indians, and the Japanese. Go Arianespace! Whose idea was it to replace two lumbering bureaucracies with a single humongous multinational lumbering bureaucracy?
Nice to see so many techies falling back to racist sterotypes of Indians or worse (the person who made the comments about it being a shame that there were no visa restrictions to prevent Indians in space - I'm talking to you).
How would people react if instead we were talking about Africans swinging from tree branches into space?
I know I will get the typical idiot responses banging on about freedom of speech, but you know what? I don't care.... racism is racism is racism....
india is planning on PUTTING someone in space. Canada hasn't done this and isn't planning on it. Canada has contributed parts and we (US) send up an occassional Canadian astronaut, but outside of that India is making strides where Canada isn't.
on the same note considering US is a super power why does it need to put weapons in space?
And you don't agree with Indian because a third world country is rising beyond its stereotypical image? There are a lot of problems in this world be it a third or a first world country, putting an end to the development of science is not an answer to that.
And to your counter argrument that they are reinventing the wheel. well not everybody is cooperative enough to share their technology with the rest of the world. so countries like india have to restort to reinvention of the wheel.
If India is advanced enough to be considering manned space missions, they're advanced enough to have Kyoto protocol CO2 limits apply to them. Same for China.
I think these objections are raised partly because India still receives a great deal of foreign aid.
"If they are landing on the moon," the argument runs, "why are we feeding their poor?".
From your post I can tell two things:
1. You're ignorant. Sorry for being so blunt, but it's true.
India might have a population of a billion, but they're not all "poor, illiterate and starving", far from it. As for things like "an ancient infrastructure and horrible pollution", well I have two words for you: Union Carbide.
Seriously, put down Half-Life 2 for five minutes and read a book. Perhaps then you'll have a better understanding of the world beyond your own nation's borders. And perhaps you'd also appreciate that you don't even have to get a passport, or even get into a car, to see real abject poverty: I'm sure there are plenty of people living hand to mouth existences only a few miles from your doorstep.
2. You have no appreciation for the benefits that technology can have for even the simplest people, or the role of technology in elevating people from poverty.
Farmers benefiting from better weather forecasts is just one example of what I'm talking about. Solar panels providing electricity to even the remotest regions is another. Water filtration and recycling techniques are yet more.
Sorry, but the only thing that's asinine here is your attitude. I've been there and seen the country too, so I know that you're talking out of your backside.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
franky the parent post should be modded off topic but since it came up... Why not ratify Kyoto for India? They are exept from its limits!
Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
Look at what Apollo and Mir accomplished during the era of competition. Look at what the International Space Station has accomplished (pretty much zilch) for more money than either of those two programs. "Let's do it together" is a nice sentiment, but it doesn't appear to get anything done.
If you want these developing countries to stop having so many babies, the only proven way to do so is to get them developed, and that can only come through technology.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
I'm an Indian, and
everytime I see a "technology is good" post from
people who watch "60 minutes" or some report on
CNN, I say "IGNORANT optimistic FOOL". I say
the spending by any government should be aimed at
helping the largest number of people at lowest
cost. Better roads, better water supply systems,
better schools, and a better food distribution
system will help more people than will a space
program.
Someone on here said that a successful space
program would enhance Indian national pride.
I see no pride in having to import technology,
know-how and knowledge.
Most kids in India do aim to get into science.
And most of them that do end up in science, end
up in the US or other countries. Those that ARE
left behind are insipid, uncreative people that'd
rather plagiarize stuff off of google than come
up with innovative solutions to problems.
Corruption is still a big problem in India.
And big money government projects like these are
perfect targets for the beaurecrats and ministers
to make amoral money.
GRRR. BLAH!
"Na - Sa"
No, offense, but look at who has contributed the most to the National Debt in their presidential terms. While I don't agree with the terminalogy, I'll take a "tax and spend liberal" over a "spend conservative." What we really need for awhile is some "tax and don't spend moderates" for four terms or so. Good luck with that though.
First of all, I did read that you'd been there: if you bothered to read my reply as well as I read your original comment you'd notice that I said that "I've been there and seen the country too", a clear acknowledgement of your claim.
Poor is a relative term. Of course there are poor people in India, just as there are poor people in the US, in the UK, and everywhere else in the world. India certainly doesn't have a monopoly on poor, and it certainly doesn't have "about a billion poor, illiterate and starving people" as you claim. If nothing else, the number of technology jobs being moved their from the US and elsewhere should blow your argument out of the water.
According to the CIA World Factbook, India has posted an average annual economic growth of 6 percent since 1990: see if you can find any other comparable nation that's making those sorts of strides. And the distribution of wealth isn't as bad as in, say, the US, with the bottom 10 percent of the population having 3.5 percent of the wealth (compared to 1.8 percent in the US). Life expectancy is rising just as it is in the West. Etc, etc. The idea that India is still a poor backward nation is just that, an idea, whereas the reality is very different.
As I've said twice now, once in my original post, once again in the previous paragraphs, I've been to India too. The reality is that I've never had a problem phoning the West (maybe 20 years ago, but not now) and the infrastructure is visibly improving year on year. Pollution, the other issue that you mention, is hardly something that's specific to India either: I've experienced smog-filled days in the developed as well as the developing world.
I've been to India several times. My last trip to India covered everywhere from the northernmost states down to Mumbai and then onto Bangalore, and lasted 13 weeks. My next one, scheduled for early next year, will cover New Delhi, Agra, Rajasthan, Gujurat, Mumbai, Goa and Kerala over six weeks. My hindi is a bit poor in places, but my gujurati is spot on, and I can converse with the average man in the street anywhere in the country without a problem. So, please, don't presume to tell me I'm the one who's ignorant about the Indian subcontinent. Because what you know about India that I don't probably isn't worth one fucking rupee.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
The more countries who can get into space, the more chance there is that the people who get up there will look down and say, "Wow... That planet down there is really something special. We should take more care of it - and the race that got us up here to appreciate it."
You must think in Russian.