Spyware Removal is Big Business

Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! by jawtheshark · 2004-12-02 02:30 · Score: 5, Funny

It's the best way of getting free beer I've found: fixing spyware related problems for family and friends. While I watch SpyBot and AdAware do their job, I get free beer. There are worse activities ;-)

--
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)

Wonder how long... by Gordonjcp · 2004-12-02 02:30 · Score: 3, Insightful

... before the anti-spyware vendors start bundling spyware?

Re:Wonder how long... by Zorilla · 2004-12-02 02:33 · Score: 4, Interesting

Measure that in negative values. AOL ships Viewpoint Media Player, a known spyware, with their client, which supposedly also includes anti-spyware software.

--

It would be cool if it didn't suck.
Re:Wonder how long... by oexeo · 2004-12-02 02:34 · Score: 4, Interesting

There are already many examples of this, spyware companies do it to destroy their competition (i.e. remove competitors spyware, but not theirs)
Re:Wonder how long... by HanClinto · 2004-12-02 02:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

This isn't the problem in question so much as anti-spyware vendors marking certain spyware companies as "harmless" and ignoring them for pay.
Re:Wonder how long... by jfoust2 · 2004-12-02 03:23 · Score: 2, Insightful

Whoops, hit Submit accidentally.
There's so many spectrums of spyware these days. How many Windows apps, free or not, phone home after installation or at every run? Uhm, yeah, they're only "checking for updates". Even some Windows device drivers (like some printer drivers) phone home. You don't know what any of these programs are sending, or how often they send it.

--
Curator of the Jefferson Computer Museum http://www.threedee.com/jcm

Woo by Claire-plus-plus · 2004-12-02 02:31 · Score: 2, Funny

wooo wooo the bandwagon is going past *jump*. Phew it almost went without me

--
99 bottles of beer in 175 characte

And it's too bad... by daveschroeder · 2004-12-02 02:32 · Score: 5, Interesting

...that the vast majority of this spyware was installed by exploiting vulnerabilities (some overt, some more roundabout) in primarily Internet Explorer.

And once an ordinary user is compromised by one piece of spyware, it's usually a downhill battle.

Imagine how different the situation would be if, for the last several years, there had been real competition on the browser scene. Of course, there may never have been a way to solve the problem with the courts anyway: they DID decide that Microsoft illegally used its monopoly position to bundle IE, but Microsoft knew exactly what it was doing. By the time the slow wheels of justice had turned, Microsoft's browser takeover was virtually complete.

And during this entire time, IE fundamentally was stagnant. There were glaring, egregious security issues, and no new features that had already become pervasive and popular with alternative browsers (popup blocking, tabs, etc., not to mention a lack of horrible inattention to security). I imagine Firefox's recent uptick in usage illustrates, even after all that, just how bad IE sucks. But this will only be good for Microsoft, and for everyone: if Microsoft feels it has competition from things like Mac OS X in OSes and Firefox in browsers, we get developments like SP2. We get a new "commitment" to security. We'll ostensibly get new features in and an attention to security in IE. (Well, we can dream, right?)

I wonder how many dollars have been spent, or how many families have actually bought new computers (yes, it happens), once their PC slows down and/or crashes, hangs, or has other problems, to the point that it's virtually unusable. Yes. People really do this. They don't feel they can or know how to just wipe the machine and reinstall Windows, and even if they did, they don't know how to save everything they want to. So they just buy a new computer.

Re:And it's too bad... by stecoop · 2004-12-02 02:36 · Score: 4, Informative

...in primarily Internet Explorer.

Yeah you can look at the rate of change in browser usage. The fastest growing market in terms of percentage growth is the Mozilla family - I dont know of any spyware getting through Mozilla yet.
Re:And it's too bad... by frankthechicken · 2004-12-02 02:43 · Score: 2

...that the vast majority of this spyware was installed by exploiting vulnerabilities (some overt, some more roundabout) in primarily Internet Explorer.

Actually, believe or don't, the vast majority of spyware I've had to remove over the years, has been knowingly installed by the user. It has only been the users lack of knowledge of what the actually software does that has allowed it to be installed (incredibly, even after knowing, some people wanted the software placed back on their machines.

Admittedly, there are more than a few cases when a user has unwittingly had software installed on their machine through the exploitation of vulnerablities in the browser. But hell, most of these were from the less salubrious sites, and if you go into sex sites, you better have decent protection.
Re:And it's too bad... by kjs3 · 2004-12-02 02:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

vast majority of this spyware was installed by exploiting vulnerabilities
Not true. Our non-trivial (several thousand PCs) analysis of spyware at my company shows that the majority of the spyware initially infected machines by piggybacking on other programs that the users installed, such as iMesh, Gozilla, eWallet, etc. They didn't need a vulnerability, just a not-very-observant user.
Re:And it's too bad... by cassidyc · 2004-12-02 02:48 · Score: 2, Insightful

The average user is simply that.

That does not make them morons in the same way your comment makes you a cockbite.

You want to start showing me stat as to where the "average" is.

Me I reckon that the average person knows what the hell is going on, and can fix a fair few problems, but maybe isn`t the hard core programmer/linux guru.

Rather than taking the "intellectual" low ground maybe you want to to help inform, or maybe realise that computers (despite marketting) are not ready for everyone.

Your view is gloomy because of all the shite you talk.

CJC
Re:And it's too bad... by rm007 · 2004-12-02 02:56 · Score: 4, Insightful

The "average" computer user is a lazy, uninformed moron

With repect - and a great deal of sympathy (if not outright agreement, at least when I am trying fix something on a friend/relative's computer) I think that we should get away from this kind of mindset with respect to the "average" computer user. The average computer user is not interested in how things work, only that things should work and that they can use what ever piece of technology for the purpose they need it for. This extends beyond IT, to everything from plumbing, electricity, cars, furnaces, etc. Anything beyond basic operating and maintenance procedures gets in the way of use and should ordinarily be outside the domain of the "average" user. The problem lies with technologies and products (e.g. IE) that are poorly designed and therefore require more expertise from the average user than is appropriate.

Sure it's easy to get frustrated with "average" users, but they should not have to be interested in how things work. Don't be so gloomy, there are worse things than being in a position to help a fellow human being with a problem.

--

I've finally got around to changing my sig
Re:And it's too bad... by nolife · 2004-12-02 02:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

We had a higher level employee that could not get into our Citrix farm from his home computer. We do not normally support home computers but we made an exception for him as he was willing to bring the PC into the office for us to look at. He was full of spyware. I ran the typical tools and ran all updates AND installed Firefox. I gave him a short story with Firefox and IE and how spyware was getting to his PC. He called back three weeks later and reported that he loves Firefox and asked why we are not deploying it office wide to all of our computers. I don't think this person qualifies as lazy or a moron but probably more like non technical. Not everyone can be an expert on everything. People still buy stuff from Best-Buy and Circuit City when there are many places online that are much cheaper, people still show up on a car dealer lot without a clue of what the invoice price really is and do not compare prices. Morons? I don't think so, uninformed, yes.

--
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Re:And it's too bad... by ssj_195 · 2004-12-02 03:03 · Score: 3, Informative

In the latest versions of Firefox, all .xpi installs are blocked, except from sites included in a very small whitelist. The user is informed that a site has tried to install software, and that you must explicitly add the site to your whitelist if you want it to install. It's not a perfect solution, but it does at least add to the number of steps required for someone to install a .xpi on their system.

In the end, though, the only way to combat user stupidity is through education (an uphill struggle) or by denying them the ability to install any software on their own system (which I balk at). It's a sad state of affairs :(
Re:And it's too bad... by Scurra+UK · 2004-12-02 03:10 · Score: 2, Funny

You're forgetting that half of all people are below average....
Re:And it's too bad... by NardofDoom · 2004-12-02 03:52 · Score: 3, Interesting

Nonononono... The average user is a nice person who will give you lots of money to make problems go away.
Your view is gloomy because you're not charging enough.

--
You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
Re:And it's too bad... by nelsonal · 2004-12-02 04:04 · Score: 2, Informative

I think the problem arose from Moore's law. Computers got too cheap too quickly. Think about another complex tool that transitioned from capital good to consumer product. I will use cars, but you could substitute power tools (think table saw or 1/2" drill), airplanes, or telephones. With autos, they existed for several decades before mass consumer adoption, mostly because until Ford developed the assembly line (and even in the early part of that) you needed to either be quite wealthy or have a real need use the device. By the time mass adoption was reached, the device had been simplified, and consumers had been educated that this could potentially be dangerous, so they learned at least something about the operation (and potentially basic maintenance) of the device. Computers moved to a price that allowed mass adoption much faster, and buyers assumed they were buying devices that had undergone the bug checking of other consumer products so they didn't take any more time to learn about the product they were buying or installing.
After 20 years of debuging there are PCs out there that have reached that level of simplicity, they are called X-Boxes.

--
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
Re:And it's too bad... by cassidyc · 2004-12-02 04:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

my spelling has less to do with my intelligence and more to do with how careful I am. Considering that my desk is a mess right now full of details design documentation, I'll let you work it out.

One paragraph should make one point. Now if I am of such a below average intelligence that I can make my points with such a clarity that requires only one sentence, then so be it.

The poster hit a "raw nerve" with his holier-than-thou attitude and aparent superiority complex. Now if someone wants to spend $1000 (or indeed 1000UKP) then they are welcome to do so. I was suggesting that the poster should get off his high horse and help the "averages" rather than insulting them

Also shite does not necessarily come from "american homies", it's worth considering other dialect that may pronounce it shite as appose to shit (see I can spell both).

"I smell shite" is a particularly Scottish phrase
Maybe you would like to consider the amazing fact that the internet is accessible throughout many varied and interesting parts of the planet, and is not as US centric as americans would like to believe.

CJC
Re:And it's too bad... by psyki · 2004-12-02 05:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

I agree and disagree.

I agree that the average computer user is not interested in how their computer works, only that it should work. I also agree that the problem lies with technologies that require more expertise from the average user that is appropriate. BUT. Given that, it is logical to conclude that the "average" user is going to have difficulties using their system. To use an analogy, just because my garage is full of tools doesn't necessarily mean I have the skills to properly tune an engine, or even change the oil.

Computers are still very much at the point where they are tools that require skilled operation depending on what you want to do. Some tasks are obviously easier than others, although ease does not preclude education. For example even though I can buy a computer and have high-speed internet installed in days for just a few hundred dollars, doesn't mean I shouldn't be aware of viruses, spyware etc.

It's a fundamental problem of what people expect from their computers, and it's a much larger problem than just IE as slashdotters would like to believe. For example it is not a trivial matter to produce even medium quality DVDs of home movies captured from a camcorder, but people assume that because "computers" can be used to do this task, THEIR computer must be able to as well. And it can, but only if you know what you're doing.

$15/hour? Well, maybe in the call center. by Shag · 2004-12-02 02:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

I'm a mercen... er, I mean, an independent technology consultant out in the field, and when someone has so much malware on a Windows XP box that they can't even log in to the poor beast, they're generally more than happy to pay psychic-hotline rates to get someone out there who can and will fix it for them.

I travel with a frequently-updated set of tools for exorcising various demons from PC's, and am accustomed to mucking about in the registry, winsock stacks and other oh-so-fun places to finish up the job.

--
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.

Open source spyware removal utilities? by tcopeland · 2004-12-02 02:34 · Score: 3, Interesting

Googling didn't bring up anything helpful... I can see a couple of possible barriers:

- most developers aren't clicking on email attachments
- it's tedious work; rooting around in Windows Registry and system folders isn't fun
- it'd need to be constantly updated to be effective

It's a tough row to hoe...

--
The Army reading list

Re:Open source spyware removal utilities? by stevey · 2004-12-02 03:35 · Score: 2, Interesting
I contemplated starting something, a while back and am still fairl interested.

There are four parts to a decent anti-spyware suite:
- GUI + Update mechanism.
- Registry Scanner
- File System Scanner
- Process Iterator
All three parts are trivial and something pretty looking could be hacked together in a week or (much) less to do all those things.

The really hard part is building up and verifying the patterns which can be used to identify spyware - and then removing it.

(Many spyware applications nowadays use "random" keys on install so it's not even a static list).

You'd need to be prepared to have a scratch system to test spyware on - and you'd nee dto accept submissions of malware from users.

If the clamav people can do it then it's certainly possible - but it's not a simple thing to do.

People sponsoring bandwidth / hardware / cash would be a real incentive.

meh by Gerfervonbob · 2004-12-02 02:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

If only they knew how easy it is to remove.

comparison by Claire-plus-plus · 2004-12-02 02:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

WOuld we pay for a car if every billboard we passed was capable of taking control of the vehicle and making it drive to other billboards? I don't think so. Why then will we pay for windows.

--
99 bottles of beer in 175 characte

Re:comparison by oexeo · 2004-12-02 02:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

WOuld we pay for a car if every billboard we passed was capable of taking control of the vehicle and making it drive to other billboards? I don't think so. Why then will we pay for windows.
Why does every /. analogy involve a car?
One of the fallacies in this analogy is that car hijacking billboards will probably kill you, where as spyware probably won't.
Re:comparison by PetoskeyGuy · 2004-12-02 03:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

Because the Manufacturer already paid for every copy and buying computers WITHOUT windows is often even more expensive. It's a hidden cost.

Why do you pay for a cayalytic converter in your car? It works fine without it, or you can install one yourself cheaper.

Most people are never given the choice of making a purchase and deciding what bits they want or don't want. Given the choice most people wouldn't have the skills to take advantage of the savings.

Think convenience, think McDonalds.
Re:comparison by clickster · 2004-12-02 04:31 · Score: 2, Funny

You know, if cars made stupid, unfounded comments like this...oh.

--
If you mod me down, I shall become less powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Re:comparison by Ronin+Developer · 2004-12-02 06:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

Spyware won't kill you directly.

But, after your bank accounts have been drained and your credit cards taken to their limits, you might wish you were dead.

I had my identity stolen a couple of years ago. Buggers were allowed to open up accounts are large department stores without even a cursory check on their ID or validation of the info they put on the applications.

Fortunately, one of the stores called to "verify" that I had opened an account and, as such, I was altered to the problem.

My information quickly travelled ( less than a week) across several states very with one store being a a relatively local store (two towns over). They had a picture of the individual (who is not even the same ethnicity or race as I). At one store, they purchaed $5,500 worth of computer and AV equipment and, of course, a protection plan. They do that to lower the red flag of a high value purchase = seems more legitimate. Wish it had been me who bought the stuff...it was good stuff (HDTV monitor and decent PC's).

Because, in the end, I suffered no actual loss (just a lot of aggravation), the police did a quick investigation and closed it. To my knowledge, they didn't catch the guy(s). But, I put a block on my credit and it didn't take too long to get my credit report straightend out. I now keep the various credit company's fraud help line numbers handy and shred personal and financial correspondance before it goes in the trash.

It could have, easily, been far worse and damaging.

Did they get the info from my PC? Possibly, but not likely. More likely, they got my info from the trash or through a compromised vendor.

Since then, I have been overly compusive about scanning my systems for viruses and spyware. And, I run Firefox. Amazing what a difference THAT makes in reducing spyware.

RD

The REALLY nasty malware... by Shag · 2004-12-02 02:39 · Score: 5, Interesting

In my opinion, most spyware is easy enough to get rid of using tools like Spybot-S&D, SpySweeper and AdAware. The one category that I've found harder to remove are the ones that embed themselves into the Winsock chain and redirect network features.

I cleaned out one PC last month - it wasn't infected too bad, only several dozen things for the scanners to complain about, and I've dealt with systems that had several hundred! - but even after everything seemed to be gone, its default search URL and things like that kept getting hijacked. I had to grab a tool to fix the Winsock chain; some malware had slipped itself in there and was screwing things up.

--
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.

Re:The REALLY nasty malware... by sphealey · 2004-12-02 02:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

In my opinion, most spyware is easy enough to get rid of using tools like Spybot-S&D, SpySweeper and AdAware. The one category that I've found harder to remove are the ones that embed themselves into the Winsock chain and redirect network features.
Just finished a 3-day trip to disinfect a remote office. My findings were a combination of Ad-Aware, Spybot, and Hijack This would find most spyware, but to actually remove it required multiple reboots into safe mode and manual deletion of registry keys, EXEs, and DLLs. The malware seems to be watching for the scanners to run and spawning new copies of itself whenever you try to remove it.
sPh
Re:The REALLY nasty malware... by Jakhel · 2004-12-02 03:38 · Score: 2, Informative

For the DLL's
For mucking around in the registry
And one last good all around resource
have fun and good luck.

This is why Apple is un-American by FunWithHeadlines · 2004-12-02 02:40 · Score: 4, Funny

Just think how un-American Apple computer is. Do Macs contribute to the growing anti-spyware business? Hardly at all! Why almost no money is being made removing spyware from Macs. Why hardly anyone has heard of spyware for Macs in the first place. Can you imagine taking bread from the mouths of the little children of anti-spyware software developers? Won't someone please think of the children?

Thank you Microsoft by finkployd · 2004-12-02 02:40 · Score: 5, Insightful

Microsoft is really helping the computer industry lately. First their initial decision to make outlook express execute any script embedded in email by default kick started the mostly dead antivirus industry into the powerhouse it is today. Now their forward looking decisions regarding the security of ActiveX and Internet explorer has created a whole new industry of spyware detection and removal.

Think of the revenue and jobs created by these decisions.

And Unix (Linux, OS X too), with your anti-economy designs like user accounts that cannot write to system areas, web browsers that do not support a web site's ability to covertly install software behind the scenes, and email clients that do not interpret VPscript, you should be ashamed of yourselves. If popularity of these OSes rises too high, it could seriously damage the antivirus and antispyware industries, causeing a loss of revenue and jobs. Congress should really do something about this.

Finkployd

Re:Thank you Microsoft by finkployd · 2004-12-02 03:13 · Score: 4, Insightful

It is no different than the typical thinking of lawmakers today. The DMCA, Verizon's recent bill in PA, these types of laws are written for the expressed purpose of making sure those pesky citizens do not do anything that could threaten the revenue stream of big companies. We need those big companies to provide us jobs and keep the economy going, and any new disruptive technology threatens that.

This should be no surprise, the decisions voters make are based mostly unimportant (in the grand scheme of things) knee jerk issues or worse, the just vote party lines. The elected officials are not beholden to them, they know they will get voted in as long as they have enough money to put out the critical mass of ads (and dig up dirt for attack ads), which is where corporations with campaign finance come in. The REAL constituants. Senator Fritz Hollings was completely owned by Disney to the point where they should have been listing him as a company asset in their tax filings. He fought for laws to help them, laws that in no remote way helped the voters in his district. Ed Rendell voted against the interest of Pennsylvanians because it was in the best interest of Verizon, who is one of Ed's best contributers.

This is how governemnt works today, all it takes for my earlier post to go from +5 (funny) to -1 (already happening) is for the IT industry to get some friends in congress start talking about how things like "open source" and "gpl" hurt existing industry and should be outlawed.

They are already trying in the courts (what do you think SCO is really about?), if that fails, I'm sure congress will be next on their radar.

Free beer - AGAIN! by gmknobl · 2004-12-02 02:40 · Score: 2, Funny

More free beer! Wow! I think I've detected the secret underlying thread in /. !!

Seriously though, my uncle's family from Greenville, SC (read Bob Jones University - no, don't mean to offend anyone's religious beliefs here but I have a beer point to make ;-) have asked me for computer help on occassions but for obvious reasons, that never got ME any free beer.

I'm going off to cry in my beer now...

Mmmm, salty!

Daily Spyware by gmerideth · 2004-12-02 02:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

Its 9:32 am my time and since 6:55 am I've been at 4 computers removing a combination of spyware on what we thought were fully patched (at least windows update and hfnetchk pro claims are fully patched) systems.

It's almost a daily event at our office, wake up, get to work, drink coffee, remove daily spyware....

This is one group of our population I would gladly invent a story about a giant goat about to eat earth just to get them the hell off.

--
Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things?

Prosecution by bogaboga · 2004-12-02 02:41 · Score: 4, Interesting

Is there any remote chance of getting these spyware authors prosecuted. Where does the law stand on this? After all, it's in the US where all sorts of law suites can be entertained by courts.

My argument woud be that these authors are invading my privacy when I legitimately get onto the web.

On the other hand, I will shoot myself in the foot by seeing their potential argument too:

They could argue that by visiting specific sites and probably clicking some links, I agree to enjoying all services they offer on these sites including stuff that would be installed on my PC.

Any legal minds here?

Spyware removal is big business? by lucabrasi999 · 2004-12-02 02:41 · Score: 2, Funny

And, this is news? It's sort of like announcing "Hey, the Moon causes the Ocean Tides to Rise and Fall"

Spyware removal is huge business for me! by 31415926535897 · 2004-12-02 02:41 · Score: 3, Informative

I can tell you that spyware removal is about 90% of my consulting (side) business these days. I can usually rake in an extra $300-500 / month thanks to all the spyware problems. I feel bad when I have repeat customers, but I do spend a good amount of time educating the users and immunizing their PCs, but they always find new ways of getting spyware on their computers (it always seems to be the kids and their p2p "needs"...).

Now, as an industry, I don't understand why so much money was spent. There are outstanding tools and tutorials on removing every type of spyware, and every it seems like all the best ones are free.

If you want any pointers or tips on spyware removal, and you don't live in my area :-), I'll be glad to help you anything I can.

Re:Spyware removal is huge business for me! by inquisitor · 2004-12-02 03:27 · Score: 2, Informative

Not really true. Some CWS variants are really really hard to remove (in extreme cases, using the oxymoronically-named HackerDefender rootkit to disguise itself, plus hide and shut down CWShredder, AdAware, Spybot S&D et al when you try to install them), but everything is possible.

Basically, if CWShredder, Spybot and AdAware don't work for you, and you can't see anything on your HijackThis! log, first step is to search on the now slightly outdated CWS Chronicles and then on many of the excellent anti-spyware forums out there, all of which have encountered more variants of CWS than you could ever imagine. If you can't find someone else with the same problem, then post your HJT logs and other stuff and someone should be able to help you.

These parasites (it's not all spyware anymore) are now really, really, really out of hand - the CWS people, especially, but there's even worse people out there - and something needs to be done to stop them. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen anytime soon - since the companies that make most of these are "legitimate businesses", as opposed to idiot teenagers with Visual Basic. Shame.

Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! by ZoneGray · 2004-12-02 02:46 · Score: 5, Funny

Y'know what sucks? Having to tell your father to be more careful about visiting porn sites.

Re:How much to charge by larsoncc · 2004-12-02 02:48 · Score: 2, Informative

I have a "regular job", but I can't help but being drawn into this.

I charge $50 per clean. About 30% of the time, I get a tip too, ranging from $5 to $20. I always call em back a week later to be sure they're happy.

Reinstallation may sometimes be necessary (not often). Sometimes, it's far less time consuming.

I never do a "freebie" anymore. There's just too many of them. I'd drive myself mad.

--
Video Game News, FAQs, etc

Re:aint what it used to be by lucabrasi999 · 2004-12-02 02:50 · Score: 2, Funny

Am I the only one unimpressed by the $12 million figure?

Good point! It reminds me of Doctor Evil -- "One MILLLLLIIIIOOOOOONNNNNN Dollars!"

windows is partially at fault by jonwil · 2004-12-02 02:52 · Score: 4, Insightful

If microsoft made some changes to windows, this crap would have a harder time getting installed (or at least getting installed unnoticed)

Basicly, anything that wants to change certain things should trigger a "are you sure you want to do this" warning of some kind (with ways to change that warning into a requirement for a password or a total block of the activity). If the activity is blocked, the app requesting it gets an appropriate error (e.g. "you cant open that file" if access to a file is blocked)

The items that should be locked include:
Writing to the "startup" group & other locations where you can have a program start at startup
Writing to
Changing critical windows sockets settings
Changing the HOSTS file
And there may be other things

The idea is that spyware/viruses/trojans/etc that come in totally unannounced would now not be able to do that.
And spyware and such that rides alongside application programs would be easier to spot (so you can choose to use a non-spyware alternative)

Yes the cluless will just click "yes" but at least those who care wont be hit as much.

Anti-virus vendors should start detecting spyware (particularly the kind that installs itself jsut by visiting a webpage or reading an email as opposed to the kind that installs alongside programs like kazza) just like they detect viruses.
After all, spyware shares a fair few characteristics with viruses, worms and trojans.

The big PC OEMs should be doing more to combat spyware.

Myself, I use Mozilla (and keep it up to date with the latest release builds) and I use Norton
Antivirus to keep my system virus free.
I also run Spybot and Ad-Aware regularly.
And I dont install spyware-laden programs like Kazza, Real etc.

Why not illegal? by dubdays · 2004-12-02 02:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

I find it terribly sad when companies/people/drones/the family pet/etc. need to fork out a ton of cash just to prevent assholes from taking over their computers. Viruses (Viri?) have caused this for years, and it's completely illegal to create such a program. But, so far, it's still legal in most places (albeit unethical) to distribute this garbage.

Yes, it's really an IE/Windows problem, which is a whole other argument. I know users need to be better educated (or educate themselves), but that still doesn't help my Grandma who can barely seem to find the escape key. I understand this. But still, why should this still be allowed?

On a side note, does anyone know of GOOD network/client-server spyware removal software, either free (as in beer or freedom) or commercial? Just curious...

Two thirds??? by mediaslave · 2004-12-02 02:54 · Score: 2, Informative

I am a consultant for a small IT firm in Manhattan. We do a lot of small businesses, home businesses, and even home clients. Spyware turns out to be the culprit in probably 90% of our "my computer is slow/not working" calls we get these days. We make it mandatory for all of our techs to install and run Spybot and Ad-Aware on any machine we work on, and I have NEVER seen (or even heard of) a machine with no spyware on it. The third of machines that are uninfected must not have internet connections. Even with Spybot's protective measures activated, an Ad-Aware scan a day later will find something.

--
-- "the revolution will not be televised" -Gil Scott-Heron

Re:How much to charge by PalmerEldritch42 · 2004-12-02 02:54 · Score: 2, Informative

I've been doing this for a few months now and my standard rate is $50 to get started. An easy removal (Spybot/AdAware) will be just that. If it gets more complex and requires any real work (registry hacking, TCP/IP stack repair, etc) then the price increases- so far, I have not gone over $75, but I can envision some infections that will be more expensive... I have a policy where if the stuff comes back within 2 weeks (generally meaning I did an incomplete job), I will fix it again for free. If they get reinfected again after that (which I assume means they have been doing something they shouldn't), I charge another $25.

In addition to the removal, as a value added service, I do a good bit of training- including how not to use IE/Outlook (I install Firefox/Thunderbird for them) and how to not open attachments, etc. If they continue reinfecting themselves, I just keep coming out and charging them again and again. It is quite a cash cow for some of these folks who must go to their little java game sites and who open every possible thing that they are sent...

It is even easier in many cases where I can do the entire thing through NetMeeting from my house, so I get paid full price and don't even have to leave home.

--
Ceci n'est pas une sig.

:wq!

Re:Unwilling mercenary... by Shag · 2004-12-02 02:56 · Score: 3, Interesting

I don't touch people's home computers, for starters.

I deal with computers at businesses, 10-200 employees in general. Computers that should not be misused, on the desks of people who should know better.

Simply put, if somebody's home PC gets screwed up, it's not worth my time to fix it, since 1) they can't afford it as you've pointed out, and 2) it'll be hosed again next week.

I've gotten to the point where I'm starting to point out to my clients that hey, if they run something other than Windows, this will not happen to them.

--
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.

Pretty Big Business by EntrancedX · 2004-12-02 02:57 · Score: 2, Informative

I used to work for a "big retailer" and I saw how much business the on-site "computer technicians" were making from Spyware cleanup. Well... $50 a pop. The funny thing is they were using Ad-Aware only to provide this "great service" for their customers. So as long as there are customers willing to pay all this money for such a service, then the business is going to be booming. *Ohh yeah... using Firefox may help a little.

Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! by stupidfoo · 2004-12-02 02:58 · Score: 5, Funny

Rather tell my father that than my mother...

(or your mother! HEEHEE!)

Anti-virus adding anti-spyware? by JSBiff · 2004-12-02 02:59 · Score: 2, Insightful

I deal with this at work all the time. To me, spyware/malware isn't that different from a virus, and the logical thing is that symantec/mcafee/panda/etc add spyware/malware detection to their current anti-virus offerings.

In theory, they already have. We have Symantec A/V 9 installed on our the computers at work. There is actually an option to tell it to scan for spyware/malware. The problem is, it seems to be be able to find a lot of it, but then is unable to actually remove it most of the time.

So, we end up having to run ad-aware to actually remove the spyware/malware. It's silly that we need Spybot for immunization (to make it difficult for the spyware to install in the first place), plus ad-aware for spyware removal (it seems to do a better job of removing than Spybot does, but doesn't provide the immunization feature), plus Symantec A/V 9.

Symantec, are you listening? Would be nice to have a comprehensive solution that works *all the time*. We're already paying big bucks for your anti-virus software, you could at least get it to work well for all threats. . .

Since I'm not a computer tech/programmer by WormholeFiend · 2004-12-02 03:02 · Score: 3, Funny

I'm thinking about exploring the Spyware Writer Removal Service niche instead...

Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! by EntrancedX · 2004-12-02 03:03 · Score: 2, Insightful

To help your pops out give him Knoppix (or other LiveCD distro) for pr0n surfing pleasures. No worries about Spyware being installed and (if mom is computer literate) she shouldn't be able to check out the history :)

Re:Hype = $$$ by smooth+wombat · 2004-12-02 03:05 · Score: 3, Interesting

Yes, it is as bad as these folks make it out to be.

Where I work (state government) I see all kinds of cruft on users machines when I am out and about. Even though it's not a direct part of my job I am in IT and to help things along I go through users machines and remove the nasties. Sadly, I walk by a week or so later and the users machine has the junk on it again.

I recently got permission to do a test with Firefox. I've been using it without issues and my bosses boss just put it on his work system and has the same results. I asked him if I could put Firefox on a users machine, someone who I knew had all kinds of problems with popups/redirects/whatever.

I cleaned her system (I don't even remember how many pieces of spyware she had) and then put Firefox on the machine. I did some basic configuration (block popups, small cache size, etc), copied her bookmarks over and gave her a quick run through on using tabs and how to configure the toolbar. So far I have not heard one bad thing from her about using Firefox or that she had issues with popups/spyware.

Hopefully, by using this person as a real guinea pig (as opposed to myself), someone who is not overly computer literate, we can convince the higher ups to use Firefox for everything except for our SAP requirements (yes, SAP is evil. I'm not the one who chose to spend millions of dollars on a tricked-out spreadsheet).

--
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Good source of extra income by BrentRJones · 2004-12-02 03:08 · Score: 2, Funny

My daughter and I will be doing spyware removal as a summer job in an affluent suburb of Chicago. (I teach HS chemistry.)

IPO will be next fall. ;)

--
Help end the use of Sigs. Tomorrow

Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! by fox8118 · 2004-12-02 03:09 · Score: 3, Funny

You know what they say about consulting work.

mmm .... by tomstdenis · 2004-12-02 03:17 · Score: 4, Insightful

Windows:
Have to pay for anti-virus, have to pay for firewall, have to pay for spyware removal, have to pay for a copy of windows and then you have to pay someone to set it up.

*BSD/Linuxes:
Have to pay for someone to set it up.

Hmm... and the TOC of Linux is higher because...?

Tom

--
Someday, I'll have a real sig.

Making a killing by karn096 · 2004-12-02 03:18 · Score: 2, Interesting

Places like Bestbuy are making a killing on this whole Spyware Removal Industry. They currently charge $40 for Spyware Removal, which will usually include an Additional $40 for Virus removal. I work at Bestbuy doing this, and I've seen some pretty nasty infections, i've seen computers infected with literally 1000 instances and the only way to fix it is to boot in safe mode, or just take the hard drive out and scan it in another PC. Fun. And from what I've seen Spybot and Adaware unfortunately dont even get everything. Usually I'll use both, and then use another program and still find spyware and malware!

i'll second that! by ecalkin · 2004-12-02 03:22 · Score: 2, Informative

I'm sitting around with such letters as CNE/CNI/MCSE/MCT/CCNA etc, and probably 75 to 90 percent of the dollars i've earned in the last 4 months are from disinfection.

It's nice to pay bills but it gets kinda depressing making money off of other peoples misery.

eric

Somebody Please by einer · 2004-12-02 03:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

Someone please make a live cd that destroys spyware. Even if it just starts a wine session and runs adaware or spybot or whatever.

Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! by AvitarX · 2004-12-02 03:27 · Score: 2, Funny

Not as bad as the Boss.

"Someone was using this computer for no good, I highly recomend not using any browser but Firefox for no good."

--
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg

Upgrade to XP SP2. by Tassleman · 2004-12-02 03:28 · Score: 4, Funny

We did at the office and have seen a serious decline in Spyware related calls. We used to get 10 or more a day for Windows 2000.

Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! by iwan-nl · 2004-12-02 03:28 · Score: 5, Funny

I don't have that problem, my father and I share a porn collection :)

--
I'm trying to improve my English. Please correct me on any spelling/grammar errors in this post.

Spyware / spam prevention by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-02 03:33 · Score: 2, Informative

How to help prevent spam/viruses. Most of this information is common knowlege for the IT savy but can be a good cluestick for the relatives.
FireFox http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ is a web browser that is much more secure then Internet Explorer. I have been using it for many
months now, it is very stable and has a small fraction of the security problems found in IE.
Ad-Aware http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/ is a spyware finding and removal tool. This is one of the best anti-spy ware programs available and should be run at least twice a week.
Spy-Bot http://www.safer-networking.org/en/index.html is an excellent compliment to AdAware and should be run also twice a week. The combination of both Adaware and SpyBot make for great security.
Trend Micro http://housecall.antivirus.com/housecall/start_cor p.asp has a free online virus scanner that I run once a week. It has found viruses that Norton did not detect.
Microsoft's windows update http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ should be
checked often to patch your operating system. I would suggest you install the updates.
Zone Alarm http://www.zonealarm.com/store/content/company/zap _za_grid.jsp If you do not have a Firewall router at home or are using dialup. Make sure you have some sort of firewall running on your machine. This one is pretty good and free.

Here is a mini guide I wrote up on how to prevent from getting spam.
1. Do not give out your work email address to anyone not work related. Do not give it out to relatives.
2. Do not use your primary email address to sign up for things online, use a email from hotmail or gmail.
3. DO not use your work/primary email to post on message boards or USENET unless they are closed and protected forums.
4. Do not sign up for free giveaways, even if they are work related.
5. Do *NOT* forward jokes or other such emails. Discourage people from forwarding them to you. These emails hold a massive list of email addresses and will eventually end up in the hands of spammers.
6. Do *NOT* reply to any spam asking to be removed or to "unsubscribe." It just guarantees that you will get more spam as you have confirmed it is a
valid account.
7. Do not buy anything form a spam email. This only encourages the practice.
8. If you get spam in Outlook, go to "File", then "Work Offline" and then delete the email messages. Selecting the email message for deleting opens
it, this can cause a virus to be downloaded or download pictures that have unique tag. With the unique image tag, a spammer can tell when you
opened the email and that your account is valid. By using the "Work Offline" mode, no images will be opened.

You can find these links at my site http://www.friendsglobal.com/

Too much spyware and NO Login Connection on AOL by lcsjk · 2004-12-02 03:34 · Score: 2, Informative

Three days ago I helped a friend who could not get connect her modem to connect to AOL. I tried everything including uninstalling AOL and deleting registry entries until my eyes got blurrry. Re-installed to find that AOL still pulled up her ID and Password from somewhere. I even called AOL support to get a new password - still no connection. I used Hyperterminal to call the AOL number and connected so I knew the system should connect.

Finally, I ran a copy of AD-AWARE and SPYBOT-S&D from a CD I had with me. After removing nearly 200 data miners and some files, the system connected on the first try. I have not yet notified AOL of the problem, but I expect others have had the same problem.

VMware is one solution by Werrismys · 2004-12-02 03:34 · Score: 3, Interesting

Well not solution, but it helps on small sites with fast enough workstations with 768+M RAM. Run debian or some other lean, stable linux distro under the hood, run VMware in fullscreen mode on top of it. Use different virtual disk for "Documents and Settings" folder. Install all the proprietary win32 crap you need, backup the virtual system disk and set it up so that it overwrites the system disk on every real boot. If you don't need SMB browsing and printers, you can further protect Windoze by using NAT networking so the virtual machine is not visible on network. You can still use SMB/CIFS disk shares and CUPS printers (2K and XP support CUPS somewhat). Running winblows under VMware is 100 times preferable to wasting perfectly good hardware to a dedicated, "real" installation. And it's cheap, v3->v4 upgrade is currently 99 US$ + VAT. Another plus: as admin, when installing new software, just make a snapshot of the VM state, then install the proprietary crap, and if it breaks anything, just restore snapshot and you timewarp to pre-fuckup state. Excellent!

--
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack

The Mac marginalized again by DieByWire · 2004-12-02 03:43 · Score: 3, Funny

This is just another example of a market that Mac users are being excluded from. All the opportunities you miss when you own a Mac.....

Maybe I'll give up and join the Borg.

--
Never shake hands with a man you meet in a fertility clinic.

broken window fallacy by yorkpaddy · 2004-12-02 04:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

wikipedia: Broken window fallacy This says that if someone says, look at that broken window, it stimulated the economy because it created work for the glassmaker and glazier. This seems reasonable at first, but it isn't. The country had to use economic resources to reach the same utility it was at before the window was broken. If broken windows really stimulated the economy, countries would bomb themselves to stimulate the economy.

--
"brxref .k.p ,.by xprt. gbe.p.oycmaycbi yd. cby.nci.bj. ru yd. am.pcjab lgxlcj" don'

Re:broken window fallacy by toddestan · 2004-12-02 05:56 · Score: 2, Insightful

If broken windows really stimulated the economy, countries would bomb themselves to stimulate the economy.

Close, but not quite. The current philosophy is to bomb other countries. This serves two purposes. First, it props up big defense contractors. Secondly, it props up large, corrupt companies who are paid obscene sums of money to rebuild other countries after we get done sending them back to the stone age (only so we can blow them up again, of course - starting the cycle over again).

McAfee and Norton by SammysIsland · 2004-12-02 04:02 · Score: 3, Insightful

What I can't seem to figure out is why Norton and McAfee didn't include spyware detection and removal in their virus detection software from the beginning. I remember specifically reading something on Symantec's site that said something to the effect of "we are not targeting any 'spyware'".

Wouldn't this have saved a lot of problems? How is spyware not considered malicious?

Over and over again, I have to sit at friends' computers and rescue them from the evil clutches of the browser hijackers and such. I think Symantec and McAfee dropped the ball on this one.

Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! by zaffir · 2004-12-02 04:13 · Score: 2, Funny

I'm not sure what's creepier, the fact that you share a porn collection, or that someone found your post +1 informative.

--
"Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway

Re:Already happening by Tokerat · 2004-12-02 04:46 · Score: 2, Insightful

No, go back and read that again. I think he means the removal tool authors will start including spyware they "approve" of along with their removal tools, so that they can guarentee said piece of spyware WON'T be removed. Spyware companies would pay huge amounts for something like that, let's hope those making spyware tools won't sell out. (I'm fairly confident they won't,, that's like Symantec bundeling virii with their anti-virus tools...

--
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?

Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! by NotoriousQ · 2004-12-02 05:10 · Score: 2, Interesting

There was no option for -1, too informative. This was the closest.

--
badness 10000

It's small business, too by conebrid · 2004-12-02 06:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

Over the summer I worked for a small ISP (six employees including myself) with a decent customer base of about 1800 people. As an extra source of revenue, we also sold hardware, built custom PCs, and provided repair services at $38.50 an hour.

In my two months working there, we had quite a few people come in for repairs, and I would say about 90-95% of those cases were spyware related. They would come in complaining about their computer slowing down, crashing often, or my personal favorite: pop-ups constantly appearing, even when "not on the internet". They would generally describe the problem by telling us "I think it has a virus or something". In cases where spyware was the primary problem, we used several free tools including Spybot and Ad-aware to remove as many traces of the malicious programs as possible, and made sure there were no suspicious processes left running and that the computer was working normally (although the average machine we saw was at least two years old, if not older, and relatively ran very slowly despite all the other common optimizations we applied). We left a note in their service ticket about the software we left installed on their computer (typically Spybot and maybe AVG Antivirus), and offered to instruct any interested customer in their origin and use (not many customers were interested).

It really wasn't a bad summer job, but not the sort of occupation I would enjoy for an extended period of time.

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