Slashdot Mirror
Lycos Anti-Spam Screensaver Brings Down Spam Sites
ChairmanMeow writes "According to BBC News, the screensaver released by Lycos Europe that targets spam websites has been a bit too successful at targeting spam sites, bringing down two sites, with a third responding intermittently, and raising concerns that the screensaver amounts to a DDoS attack against spam sites. Of course, spammers deserve to be punished, but will DDoS attacks against spam websites help to curb the problem of spam?" While the screensaver allegedly throttles back when a site slows, it would seem it's being a bit overzealous.
It's nothing illegal. Just packet spam.
Your ad here.
It's according to Netcraft. Their story is Spam Sites Crippled by Lycos Screensaver DDoS, followed by Lycos Screensaver Site Blocked by Internet Backbones and Lycos Screensaver Site Changed, Now Says "Stay Tuned". F-Secure also says spammers are beginning to fight back by redirecting traffic back to Lycos.
Come on people, primary sources! This isn't elementary school.
Post the links to the sites it targetted, we can finish them off!
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
Using a DDOS on spammers is kind of like sending an arsonist to burn down the house of a murderer...
What a horrible thing to do to those friendly neighborhood spammers. :(
How do we know that the spammers didn't just take their servers offline in response to the attack?
I don't care if the spammers' servers are DDoSed. They can take their fucked-up business model and shove it, as far as I am concerned.
Good on Lycos for finally having the balls to stand up to these guys. The spammers have been stealing bandwidth off all of us for far too long now.
gadgetophile.com
Who controls the list of "spam sites"? What are the criteria for becomming a victim? I would personally like this process to be transparent before I encourage anyone to participate - I do think they have the best intentions, but the potential for abuse is a bit scary.
That's what sucks about the spam war.. the good guys have to be careful how they deal with the problem to avoid accidentally screwing someone innocent. The bad guys just double their output.
Yes, spammers are evil scum who need a standard NATO round square in the forehead. But this sort of rough and ready justice worries me. An attack on the network is an attack on the network, period. If this sort of thing becomes respectable where does it end?
If it is OK to DDoS spamers, who else is it ok to knock off of the net?
Kiddie Porn?
Regular Porn?
Nazi/Skinhead sites?
Anything YOU think is a 'hate site'?
Anything ANYONE things is a 'hate site'?
Anything anyone objects to for any reason?
Business competitors?
Political opponents?
Anyone applauding Lycos for this had better be ready to draw the line somewhere on that list above and defend why their line is the absolute correct one in language all can agree on or that line will creep down at Internet speed.
Democrat delenda est
Rather, it's a bunch of people coordinating their requests for information. At worst, it's civil disobedience (though not directed at government) or an organized, peaceful protest.
I had a similar idea a while back, where people supportive of a cause could voluntarily elect to permit their computers to engage in simultaneous activity coordinated from a single point. It's cool to see this.
You could've hired me.
Someone get the world's smallest violin immediately!
"Enough of this wretched, whining monkey life." -- Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_, Book 9, 37
... as least until one of your arsonists accidentally burns down the murderer's neighbor's house.
paintball
Don't you feel the same? I'm sure you do.
Wouldn't it be great if someone would create a screensaver that would automatically visit the websites of the vendors of these enticing offers and display them on my screen? I'm a fast reader so it would be great if it could show a few each second.
That way, I'd be able to read all about their exciting products without having to do anything at all.
If there was such a screensaver, maybe lots of people would download it. After all, I'm sure we're all interested in the products on offer. And what e-entrepeneur wouldn't want to have thousands of interested potential customers visit his web site every second?
Hey, I like the idea of punishing spammers, but Lycos is playing a game that's very dangerous. They're doing DOS-attacks (by proxy) on servers, and where I live that's actually a crime. While sending lots of unwanted e-mail will get you a slap on the wrist, DOS'ing a machine without written consent actually gets you jailtime. Where is the liability here when someone installs this screensaver? Is the end-user responsible for the DOS, or is Lycos responsible?
Another point on this is that this only brings more traffic to the Internet. I know, what's a few measily packets when people are leeching torrents like mad, but still. While this effectively disables spammers for a while, remember that you can't fight fire with fire (or SYN with SYN in this case).
And what about machines that accidentally get on the list of machines to be abused? Hey, I know that in theory only bad guys get on the list, but I've had enough customers actually get on an RBL while they don't spam.
This is dangerous ground we're walking here, and sooner or later someone is going to call their lawyer. The ISP that provides internet access for the spammer perhaps, or perhaps even the spammer who knows that where he lives sending spam is nothing compared to DOS.
Lycos is not auto-grabing the urls from the spam. It is having someone open the spam, verify it is spam, verify the end link url for the Viagra or such. Only then is the site added to the target list. Lycos has said that they are not trying to take down the site but cost it money. Seems that they did not write their software right to take into account that everyone and their grandmother hates the spammers and would install it. So a few spam sites went down. I am of the opinion that this is a good thing. They should change their software so it does DoS the site. Having been/worked on large networks I can say that a DoS will 99% of the time only affect the hosting company and the people that sell them the pipe and most likely only at that pipes termination. (Also it is not a true DoS in the sense that the software request the page and completes the transaction!) And I say so the fuck what!?! The hosting company should get screwed for hosting the spammer.
It is about time we (the collective geeks) do something real about spam. Sure I have SA and all that installed but it is a pain, cost us money (time and hardware). Spammers should be shot. Spammers website should be hacked and cracked and trashed. The companys that knowingly host them should get the same. Their are no laws or police that can fix this chaos we call the Internet. It is up the the users to handle the shitheads.
It is time to declare ALL OUT WAR SPAMMERS. Let our motto be "Victory or....NO CARRIER!!!"
Last year, Berman tried to pass a copyright measure which would immunize a copyright holder's efforts to stop someone from violating their copyright -- hacking into their system to remove the material, take it off the network, or shut it down.
Fight Spammers!
...NETCRAFT CONFIRMS IT
the Lycos screensaver is dying (but it'll take a few spammers down with it)
They released the screensaver with a fixed list of sites? I thought it would look through your Spam folder in your mail client and visit each web site mentioned there; a much fairer way to do things and perhaps legally safer too.
I know someone has previously suggested making mail clients download every link in a message; the idea is that if everyone did this then spammers would even have an incentive to get 'unsubscribe' working. Yes, it does confirm that your address is live; so what, it was on the spam list anyway.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Comment removed based on user account deletion
We could be seeing a dotslashing (a reverse Slashdot) where this site is bombarded by visitors because of all the links to it.
The really terrifying part is that non-geeks will get to see how geeks communicate...
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
As long as they can do it to /. as well.
Why not get every person and every site on the net to DDos the entire farking thing off the planet? Doesn't that sound like fun?
Think about it, there is not one thing on the net that probably isn't an annoyance to at least one person out there.
If DDOSing a site you don't like becomes generally acceptable behavior, the net is in some serious trouble.
It's entire foundation of the internet being based on believing that people will generally "play nice" (as it is) is on the verge of causing it's destruction here.
Lets keep cool heads. Boycott and stop supporting the use of the lycos screen saver and get back to work on a better email protocol!
Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
i'm so confused. isn't this the same lycos that has their sidesearch spyware (http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/pest/pest.aspx ?id=453078521)?
and if so, isn't this a bit disingenuous to be a anti-spam patriot while perpetuating their own brand of spyware? i mean, really, now.
Dear Spammer,
I hope you enjoy the packets we are sending you. This is a not SPAM. Previously you opted-in for these packets. If you would like to be removed from our packet list, please turn off your machine. Thank you.
How does taking down a spammer's Web site stem the flow of spam? The two aren't related, and in fact all that's happening is that a hosting company somewhere is getting blasted (not that that bothers me ... host a spammer's Web site and you can just take your lumps.) However, actual spam is sent using open relays and other bits of misdirection and likely isn't even on the same pipe as the Web site. Sure, this sends the spammers the message that we don't like what they're doing ... but one has to assume that they already know that. I guess I don't see what practical purpose this is serving.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
When someone sends a SYN, you don't have to respond with an ACK. If they don't like it, they should delete those packets and get on with their day.
Whiners