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That's Using Your Head
broKenfoLd writes "In an earlier post, we looked at the future of Matrix-esque control over computers. In that article, monkeys got to play the games. Today at UW in Madison, WI, it's the humans who are playing video games just by thinking about it. While this is cool for us power gamers, it has many more impressive applications, including limb replacement."
At first I thought it was a dupe from this, but the article did mention - "Last month, researchers at Brown University reported on the technology's success in a 25-year-old quadriplegic from Massachusetts who was able to read e-mail, play video games, turn on lights, and change channels or adjust the volume on a TV."
The final comment was "This is a significant development", but in what way?
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
But the gamer side of me is telling me "where the hell do I sign up, I'm grabbing my car keys as I type this."
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When this is refined it can change the way games are played in general. No longer will games be about who has the best hand-eye coordination. Rather they will be about who can think the smartest and fastest. We may end up calling any form of gaming that requires movement or manipulation of physical controls old-school.
This can't be allowed to reach the mainstream. I like using a mouse and keyboard for my FPS games. You see, when I get tagged 27 times by the same guy, have negative experience and my only kills are to my teammates, I like to have something to blame. I have gotten quite good at it.
For example: Spilled Dew on my keyboard. Darn kid dropped my mouse and there is the rollers don't quite work right. Or my favorite: holographic mouse pad wreaks havoc on my optical mouse.
Don't get me wrong... I can come up with lots of excuses. But yelling about lag only works for so long. Bad monitor? Maybe... but not as good as a story about Mountain Dew.
Heed my warning. Just say 'no' to gadgets implanted into your brain.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
I hate double posting but it just occured to me that I need to make an obligatory reference to the ramifacations of these developments in terms of malicious applications. Think about a computer with a virus and then attaching that directly to your brain. Scary.
... my head asplode.
-- I prefer the term "karma escort."
Screw limb replacement. I want limb addition!
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If they were able to figure out a sufficient amount of what a person's brain activity meant (which is exactly what they seem to be trying to do), and if they could hook that up to some sort of wireless transmitter (should be a piece of cake), it could be used for basic telepathic capabilities. Imagine hooking it up to an FM transmitter, even with just a 6' range - you could come through the radio of the car next to you. Dirty.
Seriously though, an implant that could do this would make telepathy somewhat of a reality. How cool is that?
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Jet Li and I fought a battle in our minds. I won.
This issue brings harshly to light the ethical problems inherent in all scientific advancement. Clearly this technology can be put to excellent use to restore mobility to paraplegics, or to allow those of us who were nicknamed "Twitches" in high school to improve our success in Counterstrike: Source.
That said, this technology could also be used for less noble goals; while it says nothing about direct brain control via the implant, and indeed I feel that that would be difficult at best, perhaps even impossible, there are other questionable deeds that could be accomplished with such a device.
Certainly it will make warfare much quicker, and mass-destruction much easier; it has the capacity to lend a remote-control, push-button effect to war that was previously limited to such weaponry as ICBM's. Imagine soldiers in tanks who no longer see enemy soldiers, but just blips on a screen that they manipulate and shoot without any physical interaction! or "suicide bombers" who directly drive bomb-laden delivery trucks into buildings with their brains from over a DSL connection.
It shall be interesting to see where this technology goes.
---
she won't let you fly, but she might let you sing
"Plus, then the lights flashed, he turned evil, and we had to shoot him in the head with a plasma gun."
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Brain surgery to play video games better?
/Billy hurls himself down stairs
"Please Mom!"
"No Billy. That system is designed for paralyzed people not so you can play video games better"
Checkmate
Similar stuff been covered before in:
Brain Controlled Computing a Reality
Playing Games With One's Brainwaves
Brain Chip Approved For Paralysis Research
Brain Controlled Tightrope Video Game Shown
So "what's new"? Is it a new technique this time, has major progress been made? If so, what's the big difference compared to the previous articles?
Think about THAT.
"They also are working on developing new electrodes that emit drugs that tone down the inflammation that comes from introducing a foreign object into the brain." This statement is medically interesting in the sense that the human immunoresponse to objects it doesn't recognize - e.g. antibody / antigen reaction. Not to mention that introducing even the slightest foreign object in the subarachnoid space (the space between the skull and the brain itself) is of fatal importance. At one point we have to wonder and assume that technology will eventually make all of this possible but will we maintain our "humanity" or will we undergo some change ala Caption Picard and the Borg - ?
... if music be fruit of love, play on
Combine the unsurpassed parallel processing capability of our brain with speed of sequential execution of an even average home pc, and who knows what can happen. This is what you read about in sci-fi, yet it's already on our door steps. (Mind you it's in infant stage, but nonetheless.) Next thing you know faculties of Math/Science/etc. will cease to exist and instead the parents will pick if they want the latest copy of Mathematica or Maple installed in their childs brain ;)
"You mean you have to use your hands? That's like a baby's toy!"
But you are old, right?
Screw cameras and blue screens, jut plug your brain into the PC and control the character directly. Seriously if this was even remotely possible the very first thing I'd do is make an architecture for broadcasting animations to other players in a MMORPG. First step on the way to the matrix. Of course, this isn't possible and it's larly stupid to even bother thinking about it.
How we know is more important than what we know.
This kind of subject has been talked about very much lately. I appreciate that, but i'm kind of disappointed at the way the subject is handled in general. Why not discuss technical issues? How are brain patterns read? EM signals surely, so how about talking about the probes that are used? And about the signals, surely there must be some interresting stuff to discuss about fuzzy recognition here... Guys, what can i say, we're supposed to be talking about our brains and the way they work, and all i find is some kids discussing 'applications' for something they're not really willing to understand. This is NOT the marketing dept!!! Where are old time nerds? Worse, i find some 'ethical' rethorist wrecking the fun... This is not litterature, this is science, may the heretics burn! Oh, before i go, i would like to insult people who think brain control applications are two-way systems. Terrorized geeks are worth nothing, the price for greater science is never too great! (please, repliers, dont discuss my mail, discuss the hardware)
Does anyone know if any group is doing research on using input devices for your brain from a computer? In other words, a way of sending information back into your brain so that you could know it, hear it, visually see it or feel it?
The Matrix is cool but here's a the rub. Neo, Trinity, Morpheus and all the rest were born in the matrix. They learnt to control their virtual bodies as they grew up. Even if the machines got it into their silicon minds to hook up one of the children of Zion it would take years for him to learn how to control his virtual body, if he ever did. We are children of Zion, and should we ever get enough electrodes implanted into our brains it will also take us years to learn how to control our virtual bodies.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Ofcourse everyone knows that multiple apendages could be much more useful in the budding niche of multi-wang pronography. Think of the possibilities TVTA!
Just great...now when my Halo2 scores are still:
Kills/Killed
2/25
Instead of listening to weedsmoker36 pop off I'll now get to hear chest thumping chimps.
Well, the next step would be to eliminate the computer (used for processing the brain signals) and use an ASIC to perform the required signal processing. The ramifications of this, as the article notes are endless. Ethical questions do exist, but we will find a way to answer them (and I don't mean in a Stem-Cell kind of way...)
I could imagine a scenario where a Tibetan nun is arrested by the Chinese. She knows the whereabouts of the new Dalai Lama, and the Chinese hook her up to the mind of a Chinese colonel. The colonel then mentally rapes and tortures her until she yields the requested information.
The colonel can already rape and torture her as he sees fit using present day technology. Why is this technology any more scary than that? Oh right, it's unfamiliar and therefore automatically bad and scary.
Until some idiot does the first: ping -f /medula
This technology is going to advance really fast...
:P
When they get it to the PRON stage of testing
This is the reason I am upset with the direction of the US. In nearly any other developed country, science versus religion isn't even an argument anymore. It makes me ill when people talk about "playing God." Please, wake me when He shows up. For now, the only person who has done anything revolutionary (beyond personal support) for the crippled are scientists, doctors, and other people who work instead of pray.
I don't know if this is quite what you meant, but this story was about a device that allowed you to gain or regain senses by putting a pad in your mouth. While you can recieve the signals to other parts of the body, they found that the tounge was the most receptive.
It isn't entirely input from a computer, but I don't see why the signals couldn't be generated artificially and sent to a device like this.
Several people are worried that this technology would be horrible. Many people are citing Forbidden Planet.
But, those worries are mis-placed. Forbidden Planet isn't going to happen.
It goes like this: We're going to develop suppressors technology.
Think about a gun for the moment: A gun has a safety. You have to undo the safety, before the gun will fire.
We all have many systems in our lives that prevent us from messing up. Credit card limits, speech and action suppressors in our brains, yadda yadda yadda.
As we develop machines that respond to thought, we will also develop machines that suppress our newfound "actions." We will limit actions that are particularly dangerous. We will limit actions that come from careless thoughts.
There may be things where: You have to solve a small puzzle, before the action will carry out. We may have things where: If you aren't being attentive, then the action won't execute.
Dunno how it's connected to the "Forbidden Planet," but the development is 1:1 what is described in the "Dogfight" by William Gibson.
My other Beowulf cluster is... er...
This got me thinking, once you're dealing with the brain directly and not hearing, smell, touch, tase, vision, you could add senses in the same way modders currently add levels or features to games.
I think the best application would be the ability to wire your brain directly into another person's to express ideas without waiting for our mouths to do the work. There is a gob of tissue that connects the left and right sides of the brain that when cut leads to all sorts of weird problems.
If we can borrow the right side of someones brain for an art school assignment then wouldn't humanity start to look a lot like open source software? We own our brains now, they're proprietary. What happens when we connect a bunch together? What happens to "self"? Are we the final Beowulf joke?
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So you're saying that you want to become a beowolf cluster?
As the electrodes are not targeting any particular region, as is evidenced by the subject's description of "scrinching up" and "thinking about screaming" as methods of controlling the paddle, there is no reason why they should be buried in the brain rather than adhered to the surface. Don't hold me to this as I am not qualified to make these assumptions, but I do not believe that this is particularly significant or new achievement (except that it is an extension of the previous one without fault). Until they create extremely sensitive electrodes that attach to the scalp (very, very unlikely given skin movement and interference), this still seems like quite stretch for regular patients - and an extreme one for the rest.
Maybe they should try other, less direct, interfaces - like the tongue ("Activation of visual cortex by electrotactile stimulation of the tongue in early-blind subjects").
interesting as someone through that we would need to class, as tones of electronic doc would feed into your brain.
how about making backup of your life into several TB harddisk?
or how about programming a ultra fast computer with application which simulate responses the same way as you?
or, put it further, will there be a day that we can backup our mind and soul and reboot yourself in truely inorganic form?
By that day, will it be possible to be 'teleported' to different planet, simply sending you 'life and soul.zip' to a different clone machine via planetary communication link?
And, by that day, what is the definition of human and machine?
btw, will this be a movie plot of an upcomming blockbuster?
with an artificial silicon breast, doesn't it? ;]
You can't handle the truth.
That's the point - if. Even though subjects would still have to think about everything from puppies to chain guns just to get the paddle to move, the results might be far less consistent for two reasons:
Electrodes on the scalp are, by definition, less precise than those implanted into or on top of the brain. When on the scalp, the signal received is from a larger area. Due to this, the thought processes involved might be too general - individual actions and thoughts might step on eachothers toes, so to speak. Although some devices utilize electrodes on the scalp as biofeedback sensors, I doubt it could be so targeted as to move a prosthetic arm. Remember, and this is a BIG overvsimplication, it would take more radical differences in thought to achieve specific movements, as anything less might result in an unintended combination of different inputs
The other concern is interference. I know that I once had difficulty with a remotely operated vehicle because of a play production in the neighboring room (think stagelights). I don't want to imagine what a similar situation would do to somebody with a prosthetic limb (think Dr. Strangelove).
I think you are dead on about the productivity boost this could have. The simple invention of e-mail caused an industrial boom. Imagine combining a non-invasive cap and a little wireless networking action. Even if they could only get output from your head, the productivity boost would be massive if you could get fine enough control to write. Simply blanket a company with a wireless network, give everyone a thinking cap, and sit back and watch productivity soar.
Walk up to a screen which needs some fields filled in, like an invoice, and think the input in. While you are talking with someone, be jotting down notes without twitching a muscle. Think about the data or instructions you need and have it pop up on your PDA. When you need to bang out a report, type the words as fast as you can think them.
I personally think it would cause a revolution in technology and productivity. Imagine the environment responding to people's thoughts instead of something kludgy like movement sensors. Lights turn as you think them on. Your coffee pot starts up in the morning the second you think it to.
You might even be talking about something as revolutionary as a whole new human skill, like writing. It might be that using this near telepathic ability requires a skill that needs to be learned. Really skilled thinkers might have the ability to act as super computers for automation. Any idiot might be able to turn on lights, but a truly skilled thinker might be able to perform surgery with finely controlled robotic arms, or perform microscope work and manipulation at electron microscope magnification levels.
It might even be a way to get around computer and programming limitations. A computer might have a rough time balancing and operating a military robot built to imitate human movements and mobility, but I bet a skilled thinker with a pair of VR glasses and a lot of training could do it with ease.
The possibilities are endless. If something as mundane as e-mail can revolutionize the business world (and e-mail DID revolutions the business world), imagine what this sort of stuff could do.
I grew up (mostly) before there were personal computers available.
I didn't learn how to program in C until I was over 30 years old... yet, I can program a hell of a lot better than most of the kids who "grew up with computers".
The people who enjoy learning new things and who like a mental challenge will always have an advantage over most people (who don't like to learn anything that's either difficult or different from what they're used to).
If, or rather when, they invent computer-brain interfaces, I have no doubt that I'll pick it up quicker than someone who's got many decades less experience at.. um.. anything.
All the stories about people who can't learn new technology, and stories about "old" people whose digital clocks on their VCRs still blink "12:00"... those stories are basically about stupid people who don't like to learn.
Do you really think that some 10-year-old who was born into a world with computer-brain interfaces is gonna be able to *out-think* a forty or fifty-year-old?
Only if the forty-year-old is an idiot.
First, maintaining entangled particles is rather difficult in practice. Entanglement happens when the properties of two particles are interrelated, although the specific values are not. For example, the decay of a radioactive atom might release two photons with correlated polarizations, though you don't know which way each photon is polarized. You can then perform certain operations to change the photon's polarization, and those changes will be reflected in the entangled photon's polarization, and when you measure the polarization of one, the other's is guaranteed to correspond, based on how they were emitted.
However, once you measure the polarization, and know both values, the two photons are no longer entangled and any changes to one's polarization will no longer affect the other. There are also any number of other operations that will cause the particles to no longer be entangled with one another, such as giving a new, known value to the entangled property. For instance, if you have two particles whose spin is correlated (say they're both equal), and take one and cause it to have spin +1/2, that doesn't necessarily cause the other particle to have spin +1/2. You need to do things like changing +1/2 to -1/2, and vice versa, which don't collapse the uncertainty of the system.
The actual class of operations that preserves entanglement is relatively limited compared to the total number of operations possible (I believe the ones that can preserve entanglement are unitary reversible operators, or some such, which are of specific interest to quantum computing, which makes lots of use of entanglement).
In other words, the probability that two particles at either end of your fingernail would be entangled is pretty small, let alone in two separate human beings. There are two many other particles to bump into, and that tends to destroy entanglement.
Furthermore, I'd add that even in the quantum teleportation case, where correlated states change instantaneously, to decipher the instantaneously transferred state requires that the people communicating transmit information to one another that must be sent at the speed of light or less. It works like this:
So even though information is theoretically transferred faster than light, that information cannot be deciphered without sending other information slower than/at the speed of light, so in practice you cannot transmit data faster than the speed of light would allow.
I realize my explanations may have been confusing, but unfortunately I struggle with some of the concepts myself, so it's difficult for me to explain them. However, if you learn a little more about quantum mechanics, I think it'll become clear that a lot of the ideas in your post aren't really possible (at least, as far as our current understanding of quantum mechanics goes).
I've come for the woman, and your head.