The Japanese/American Tech Deficit

First things by SIGALRM · 2004-12-09 05:13 · Score: 4, Insightful

Why do the Japanese get all the coolest gadgets ... ?

True, but let's put this into perspective. The U.S. usually views blockbuster movie releases first. Many hot game titles are available here first. It all evens out in the long run. Besides, our consumer markets are (of course) driven by entirely different value systems--for better or worse, Japan and the United States have contrasting prerogatives in importing/exporting technology and entertainment.

--
Sigs cause cancer.

Re:First things by savagedome · 2004-12-09 05:15 · Score: 4, Funny

Many hot game titles are available here first

That's not true. Newest games are available first on the streets of Taiwan.

--

Free XBox, PS2
Re:First things by WormholeFiend · 2004-12-09 05:17 · Score: 2, Funny

while very very cheap pirate copies are easily available on the streets of the various other 3rd world South East Asian countries.
Re:First things by Lemmy+Caution · 2004-12-09 05:30 · Score: 3, Insightful

Any teacher worth keeping can make a lot more doing just about anything else. I'm for extensive reform of the US K-12 educational system - including a nationalized curriculum and a professionalized teacher's corp (along the French model, in which teaching is part of a heirarchical civil service), and the end to local school boards (populated by political failures with no background in education whatsoever.)

I would accompany all these changes with a dramatic increase in teacher's salaries and benefits. Then competition for jobs would improve performance. Teachers' jobs are secure because there is virtually no competition for them - school districts will take almost anyone they can get.

But it's the school boards and administrations that are the biggest problem. They politicize - in the worst way, the local way - education in a very destructive way. Administration of schools should be run by a very professionalized administration with a strong background in educational theory and practice, not a group of yahoos.
Re:First things by ColdWetDog · 2004-12-09 05:34 · Score: 2, Funny

Yeah, according to the article, the Japanese high tech gizmo market is driven in no small part ...

by teenage girls.

Now, that's a demographic that most slashdotters (including myself) have a very limited experience with. I'm not sure how envious I am of a market that that puts style and color in front of most everything (backed up by an infrastructure that this country will never equal). YMMV, of course.

--
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:First things by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-09 05:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

The only thing wrong with education in North America is North American parents. Oh, and teacher unions.

But really, the parents are the big one. Kids don't eat right, they don't get any exercise, and they aren't pushed from home to learn. Anything that happens at school is "the teacher's fault", naturally, cause obviously the spoiled brat couldn't be at fault. Of course they can't learn anything - 3/4 of the day is tied up in classroom management, trying to keep all the spoiled, hypoglycemic monsters from killing each other, and the other 1/4 is spent teaching them things they should have learned at home before they were 4 years old.
Re:First things by sarlen · 2004-12-09 05:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yes we do each do have different things that motivate them but most Americans are slackers. This is in the way that they don't really like learning, and therefore will take useless entertainment over beneficial invetions and technology anyday
It's more that Americans are much more conservative with our entertainment, and our money. 90% of Americans don't see a NEED for a robot that flashes lights, does your dishes and explodes randomly. I'm sure WE all do, but remember the community we're apart of here. It's all about what America's consumer driven economy can handle - it's not for lack of our ability to create these products, it's a lack of market.
Re:First things by Dogtanian · 2004-12-09 05:42 · Score: 4, Insightful

Teaching here is almost all memorization and regurgitation.

You're talking about the United States, right? I thought you meant Japan!

Seriously, isn't "learning by rote" the stereotype of Japanese education (with some basis in truth), after all?

--
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Re:First things by tasidar · 2004-12-09 05:43 · Score: 4, Insightful

But it's the school boards and administrations that are the biggest problem. They politicize - in the worst way, the local way - education in a very destructive way. Administration of schools should be run by a very professionalized administration with a strong background in educational theory and practice, not a group of yahoos.
I agree with your post, and favor removing political influence from school boards. Members of the board should be drawn from lifetime teachers/educators, and isolated from the direct public.
But, consider this...
If we really want to improve our education system, we have to improve our society's views on teachers
(ie, get rid of "You know what they say, those who can do, those who can't teach").
To me, that quote shows one of the most damning things about our education system, teachers aren't respected.
Re:First things by Daimaou · 2004-12-09 05:45 · Score: 3, Interesting

I think, more than anything, it is a matter of cost. I remember when MD Players first came out in Japan. Everybody had one. They had MD Car Stereos, MD Walkmans, MD portable stereos, and MD breakfast cereal.

You could also go down to any number of rental stores and rent CDs and buy blank MD discs to record them on (now THAT would never go over in the US). Most people did this because it was cheaper than buying the CD for $25 - $30.

When I returned to America, however, nobody was using MD players, even though they were available. The problem, I think, was the cost. MD players were around $400 dollars at the time. Nobody in America would spend $400 for a portable Walkman type device, so MD players never caught on. Couple that with the fact that America tried to sell MD versions of commercial CDs instead of just selling the blanks so people could copy CDs; which is what was done in Japan.

I think this is the case with a lot of the tech gadgets that you can buy over in Japan. The cost of these items is always too high for the American market so Americans won't buy the stuff. Therefore, nobody bothers importing it anymore.

The market is also different in Japan. You can do things there that you can't do here, so some of the gadgets just don't make sense in America (MD players being one example).
Re:First things by Wybaar · 2004-12-09 05:45 · Score: 2, Informative

Many hot game titles are available here first

That's only partly true. Game titles that appeal to US audiences more than Japanese audiences are available in the US first, games like Grand Theft Auto, first-person shooters, etc.

Role-playing games, such as Xenosaga Episode 1 (about a year between when it came out in Japan and when it reached the US), Xenosaga Episode 2 (available in Japan 6/24/04, available in the US 2/15/05 ... hopefully), Final Fantasy 7 (available in Japan 1/31/97, in the US 8/31/97), etc. often come out in Japan first -- and some that come out in Japan don't come out here at all or come out MUCH later than in Japan.

For instance, Final Fantasy 5 came out for the Super Famicon [I assume, even though the GameFaqs page lists it as SNES] in 1992. For Playstation, it came out in 1998 in Japan. US gamers had to wait until 1999 for it to come out as part of Final Fantasy Anthology for the PS. The Final Fantasy series isn't exactly unknown here in the US ... and yet we had to wait for that game for about 7 years.

The types of games that you're thinking of that are available here first are probably the types of games mentioned in this article.

But at least, looking at the release dates on the pages linked above, RPG fans in the US are luckier than those in Europe :)

--
Y|
Re:First things by Dogtanian · 2004-12-09 05:52 · Score: 3, Insightful

The Japanese are more motivated into education and their cultural devotion shows through, even in US schools. That is probably why they develop more complex technologys and have the willpower and capacity to.

Aren't you being just a *little* rose-tinted about the Japanese obsession with technology?

I mean, sure, some of it is educational, but a lot of it is just flashy toys. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but let's not over-idealise it.

Remember that Slashdot story about giving conversational robots to old people in Japan? That isn't something I find desirable, personally.

And I'm fed up of the tech--> educational spin that goes around. I think the educational uses of computers (and other technologies) are *way* oversold. It's like BT's broadband advert in the UK, featuring pictures of Henry VIII and the like; "Use it for your homework". Of course they're trying to sell something, but I think too many people are guilty of believing them.

--
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Re:First things by severoon · 2004-12-09 06:06 · Score: 4, Interesting

I don't accept the premise of this /. article on its face. The main point rests on the idea that Japan gets the coolest gadgets before they reach the US, or else they never get here at all, which I don't see. This makes me want to get in my way-back machine and remember a time when I first came out the California, a simpler time when people were much more humble and thoughtful...all the way back to the year 2000...

I worked for a startup then whose business model was based on the idea of location-based offerings. (This sounds like spam, but it isn't.) As a customer, you'd go to their portal on the web and register an account. Then, later, you'd log in and enter information that you were going to be in the city on Saturday night, and you're looking to eat Italian food. You'd specify how you want to be contacted by the automated call system: cell, PDA, home phone, etc...and the hours, number of calls, etc.

Then, on Saturday night, let's say an Italian restaurant owner is looking at a half-empty restaurant. He might subscribe to the service...so he'd log in on his end and enter in a 2-for-1 entree special. The site would match up your preferences with the business offering and call you to book a reservation.

Surprisingly, this startup didn't fail (at least not right away...it lived several years). However, it did move...to Hong Kong. The funding source did some market research and discovered that we were likely never to make a go of this business by marketing it in the US. Americans get one or two calls that don't interest them from an automated service and turn the service off, saying they don't want to be contacted again. In Tokyo and Hong Kong, they found in their research that people will oftentimes walk around in public with the cell phone to their ear even though they're not on a call...it's a social status thing. They can't get enough calls over there.

So, they packed it up and moved to HK. The point of this story is that, though by and large people are more or less the same the world over, there are cultural differences that manifest in surprising and unexpected ways. Americans tend to want technology that serves them, is quick and easy to use, and isn't too intrusive. Japanese, from what I can see, tend not to care about intrusiveness and are more interested in projecting a message about themselves through the use of personal technology devices. The more these devices intrude on their daily lives, in fact, the more they view it as a sign of being needed or desirable to others. (They even let technology make matchmaking decisions--have you heard about the pager-like device that they have over there? They enter their preferences for a perfect mate in it, and when they get within 25 feet of someone that meets their criteria, if that person has one too, they light up and buzz so the people can choose to meet each other. Again, this would never work in the US.)

The upshot is, Americans get what we think is cool, and Japanese get what they think is cool. The Japanese philosophy tends to be oriented more towards the flashy whiz-bang type of stuff, like digital toilets and Internet-enabled refrigerators, whereas Americans would consider these devices as putting too much emphasis on activities we'd rather not think about, and definitely don't want hackers to have access to. (I'm convinced a good part of this cultural divide comes from the differences between Americans and Japanese opinions about personal privacy rights and expectations. Also, the anti-intellectual attitude in America doesn't help ingratiate technology into our daily lives either...think about it. In this country, one of the stock insults in grade schools and high schools is "you're a nerd". In other countries, like Japan, the insult would be "you're stupid".) This, combined with the fact that Americans always expect to have the latest, greatest, bestest, etc, means that we tend to look at the flashy whiz-bang stuff over there, which we don't want, and say, hey, how come we don't have that here?

--
but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
Re:First things by srock2588 · 2004-12-09 06:15 · Score: 2, Insightful

Parents are heavily at fault. Look at previous generations and how many very successful productive people grew up in the hills or on farms with almost no formal education. But there parents taught them to work and how to survive. My grandfather, for instance, just retired from CEO of a company he started 40 years ago, now he lives on a yacht. It all started on a farm in rural PA bailing hay. Now we have all these damn Baby Boomer hippy parents mucking up the works. "I hate my parents. Damn beatniks." - Ned Flanders.

--
Ehh...this is the life we chose.
Re:First things by FortranDragon · 2004-12-09 07:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

:chuckle: Only on /. would someone suggest reinforcing the broken parts of the existing system. Adding even more unresponsive bureaucracy is going to make things better?

Two of the main problems of the existing system are the fact it is very difficult to get rid of bad teachers (tenure anyone?) and that there is a increasing loss of local control.

You have to be able to get rid of bad teachers or be able to move them around. for things to ever improve. The problem with making them fully civil servants (they are pretty close to that now), is that the civil service will move to make sure it keeps its headcount as large as possible. Bureaucracies always try to increase because that gives them more power.

Local control, well, you might want to take a look at the Constitutional principle of "consent of the governed". Yes, some local systems will screw up. However, some will find better ways to do things. Mistakes won't affect every school district and the good ideas can percolate through out the system. I mean, do you really want a monopoly with all that entails for your educational system?

As far as "very professionalized administration", rampant credentialism is overwhelming actual education efforts. Instead of trying to educate students for those that go on and provide useful skills to those that won't move on to higher education, the system is being pushed towards making sure every student had a piece of paper stating they weren't left behind.

--
"All the darkness in the world can not quench the light of one small candle."
Re:First things by Grishnakh · 2004-12-09 07:27 · Score: 3, Insightful

There's a little more to it than this.

The Japanese, especially the young ones, have huge disposable incomes, as a result of a culture where it's normal to share a tiny apartment in the city with other families. Because of this, they tend not to invest of their incomes in more permanent things, like houses. This leaves them a lot of cash to spend on the latest gadgets, and the fact that they spend a lot of their time away from home gives them a reason to want a lot of personal/mobile electronics, especially cellphones and PDAs.

Americans, on the other hand, usually have home ownership as their highest priority, and along with this, the most expensive home their income can afford them. A fat mortgage payment leaves little income to spend on gadgets that'll be obsolete in 6 months. It's even worse when you're spending what's left on the most expensive car payment you can afford.

Personally, I think both ways are screwed up. The Japanese culture encourages a lot of consumerism and wastefulness: where do all those obsolete cellphones and other electronics go? And the American system is fairly wasteful and shortsighted too. With all the expensive cars people are buying, they're burning more oil than if they had older cars (look it up: vehicle fuel economy peaked in the 80's, and has been going down ever since). And by buying the most expensive houses possible, we have tons of McMansions going up, which use enormous amounts of energy to heat and cool. (I know someone with a McMansion, and his electric bill in the summer was typically over $500.) But another problem is that these people are all in debt up to their eyeballs, and when something bad happens, they lose their house and car and everything comes tumbling down.
Re:First things by infinite9 · 2004-12-09 07:39 · Score: 4, Funny

Nobody in America would spend $400 for a portable Walkman type device

I know what you mean! Just look at how much the ipod has flopped!

--
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
Re:First things by MagikSlinger · 2004-12-09 08:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

I think you've come closer to the truth. There is a Japanese obsession with "novelty". Something new and shiny and cool that can be a fad then thrown away. It has become a huge headache for the government with all the electronics ending up in land fills. It seems like the Japanese rely on shopping for their entertainment more than TV or movies. Their retail culture is completely twisted around this idea. Some stores have an amusement park on the roof even!

Also, there is less "personal" interaction in Japan. Half of it is the infamous cultural introversion, but the other half is lots of hours spent at work, school or commuting. They don't spend a lot of time really interacting with each other anymore. So to get that human interaction, they like constant electronic attention grabbers especially if it will connect them to people. Now you can see why wireless is so popular in Japan?

In North America, take a look at who wants & embraces the tech in question. It's people in a similar boat: not enough daily personal interaction. If you have lots of friends you can talk to face-to-face or talk to live on the phone, do you really want some chirping electronic device intruding in your life?

--
The bitter lessons of a veteran coder: http://bitterprogrammer.blogspot.com
Re:First things by mttlg · 2004-12-09 08:41 · Score: 2, Insightful

Americans, on the other hand, usually have home ownership as their highest priority, and along with this, the most expensive home their income can afford them. A fat mortgage payment leaves little income to spend on gadgets that'll be obsolete in 6 months. It's even worse when you're spending what's left on the most expensive car payment you can afford.

You're partly right here, but not everyone is trying to spend money for the sake of spending money. You need to consider the kind of financial mentality that comes with buying a house - a house is a large financial commitment that is also intended to be an investment. The goal isn't to spend the most money, but to put your money into something that will keep its value without large additional costs (or can have its value increased with an acceptable amount of cost and effort).

If you carry that thinking over into electronics, it means that you'll want something that will be useful for a good amount of time and can do its job well (or something that is so inexpensive that it can be thrown away when it fails, if the type of use allows for this). The result is a decreased demand for the next big thing and a big split between the high and low ends of the market.

The bottom line is that Americans are concerned about value (either good quality for a price or questionable quality for next to nothing). There will always be some people who are more concerned about style, but the inevitability of purchasing a home and/or car instills a value mentality that is hard to overcome.
Re:First things by corbettw · 2004-12-09 08:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

(look it up: vehicle fuel economy peaked in the 80's, and has been going down ever since)

This sounds like bullshit, but I'll follow your advice and look it up.

(minutes later)

Wow, you're right! This is OT, but for those interested, read through this report from the EPA.

A short quote: "Since 1975, the fuel economy of the combined car and light truck fleet has moved through several phases: (1) a rapid increase from 1975 to the mid-1980s, (2) a slow increase extending into the late 1980s, (3) a decline from the peak in the late 1980s, and (4) since then a period of relatively constant overall fleet fuel economy. Viewing new cars and trucks separately, the three-year moving average fuel economy for cars has increased 1.0 MPG since 1991, but that for trucks has been relatively constant."

Maybe the anti-SUV crowd has a point, after all.

--
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
Re:First things by badasscat · 2004-12-09 10:42 · Score: 4, Informative

There are just a huge number of misconceptions about the Japanese flying around here. Some of it's understandable, but I'm gonna try to counter what I can.

The Japanese, especially the young ones, have huge disposable incomes, as a result of a culture where it's normal to share a tiny apartment in the city with other families. Because of this, they tend not to invest of their incomes in more permanent things, like houses.

Home ownership in Japan is only about 6% lower than it is in the United States. It's a fallacy that they all live in tiny little apartments - or that they all rent those apartments. Many city apartments are owned, not rented, and there are plenty of less urbanized areas just as there are here, with single-family homes. According to UN statistics, the ratio of urban to rural living is virtually the same in the US and Japan.

(I actually think people forget just how urban the United States is in discussions like this as much as they fail to realize how rural or suburban much of Japan is.)

In fact, the overall savings rate in Japan is much higher than it is in the United States (though the rate has been falling over time in both countries). So this idea that they just spend all of their disposable income on gadgets is wrong. They actually spend less money on gadgets than we do.
Re:First things by MagikSlinger · 2004-12-09 11:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

Quit getting all your info from books and then arguing with those who have real-world experience - go out and experience some things for yourself. Japan is a wonderful place and I think you, like most westerners their first time there, would be pretty surprised by what you see the first time you go.

Are you Japanese or gaijin? Your social interactions will be 100% different from a native-born Japanese person.

For most Japanese, especially the ones I know, most of their day is consumed with empty personal interactions. Even the afterwork socializing is considered pretty "empty". The reports of dysfunctional marriages are increasing and recent surveys done in Japan show married couples are talking less and less to each other. Far worse than in the West.

It's a lot of fun reading the popular press in Japan interview their versions of Dr. Laura and Dr. Phil about the problem of being "lonely in a crowd". Especially after the mate-pager thing was introduced.

Are Japanese social? Yes, that's why I said half of it is. There is a reluctance when it comes to sticking their neck out to create a new interaction or friend. But once they have an excuse to talk to someone, they are very social. But again, I point to what I said originally, the other half is time pressures. Since the bubble burst in the 90s, most Japanese people have been putting more and more hours into work and "self-improvement". Companies would rather reduce staff and pay OT (which apparently they are "forgetting" to do lately) than make the situation more tolerable. With all this time spent trying to survive, it's very hard to get the energy or time to socialize in conventional ways.

There are a lot of mis-conceptions about Japan and its culture, and the "introversion" is one of them. It's not shyness (and I made sure NOT to call it shyness): it's about keeping the civil order and protecting each other's miniscule personal spaces in a very densely populated country. It's a defense mechanism against being crowded. If Americans had to live like that, they'd also experience this introversion. Oh wait, it has happened: New York. A town that looks plenty social, but it also has the highest per capita of unhappy lonely people.

--
The bitter lessons of a veteran coder: http://bitterprogrammer.blogspot.com
Re:First things by FortranDragon · 2004-12-09 13:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

That problem only gets worse when you centralize school boards. Just look at the mess California and Texas have with regards to textbooks. Because California and Texas are each basically one stop shopping when it comes to purchasing text books they tend to set the standard for all text books across the nation simply because of their size. Break those two up into their constituent, local school boards and you would immediately dilute the power of small fringe groups. (That is, it is a lot harder to, say, replace evolution with creationism when the battles have to be fought at every school.)

--
"All the darkness in the world can not quench the light of one small candle."
Re:First things by Razor+Blades+are+Not · 2004-12-09 13:39 · Score: 2, Interesting

Actually, that's not all that bad of an idea.
The concept of a professor who has to "teach" you misses a fundamental basis of universities... namely that the students were originally there to learn from acknowledged leaders in a field.
Now, however, University is often just regarded as an extension of the rest of your mandatory schooling. Instead of a bunch of mature, studious, and engaged people who earnestly enrolled in order to study under a master, you've got a bunch of near-children who are at "college" so they can get a degree in order to get a better job than working in McD's (maybe).
Re:First things by MidnightBrewer · 2004-12-09 13:47 · Score: 3, Informative

I've been living in Osaka, Japan for the last three years and I have to say that even among Japan's most outgoing people (the Osakans), the Japanese are not as outgoing as you seem to think. The grandparent was a lot more accurate, based on his books, than you, based on your personal experience. I would tend to believe what I read from research first, rather than one person's personal experience, anyway; a weekend trip to Tokyo doesn't count. Remember: every person's experience is different. Here's a little bit of mine:

The Japanese are as often hamstrung by social structure as books will lead you to believe. A "good" Japanese person worries about not putting themselves forward too much; they also are very conscious of seniority and groups. This largely defines how they interact with people.

It's really hard for a Japanese guy to meet a girl, based on several things: one, they're incredibly shy. As a high school teacher, I have been surprised to find that sometimes the boys don't even know the girls' names, even though they sit in the same room for several years. Getting them to even acknowledge the presence of a particular member of the opposite sex may be misconstrued as voicing one's personal interest, which is a definite no-no. The idea of using a pager that automatically identifies people of similar interests sounds very Tokyo-ish, and probably a very small, niche market. Most likely, it is used by school girls to identify other school girls, because guys wouldn't even dream of getting involved.

For a Japanese, the idea of rejection means that they will have exposed their inner feelings, potentially to everyone, which is the ultimate embarrassment for them. Japanese prefer to let things develop over a long period of time, which is why the whole sempai/kohai (senior/junior) relationship is often romanticized.

Japanese can seem very warm and friendly to foreigners especially, because they believe that we're not hampered by Japanese restraints, as we're not Japanese. However, by that same token, they are less likely to take us seriously, because, well, we're not Japanese. They can be very generous and gracious hosts, but unless you make a serious effort to integrate yourself into the culture and the language, you'll find yourself just as lonely as the rest of them.

On gadgets: at least in my area, while there are many gadgets to be had, the Japanese are pretty reasonable on the whole thing. They prefer sensible to gaudy, and would rather not waste their money on features they don't need. One of my friends just got his Docomo cell phone replaced, and he always tells them to give him whatever's cheapest at the time (he's regretting that policy right now as it got him a 505i, which was the latest and greatest of last year; the design is pretty much crap.)

Finally, most Westerners make the mistake of judging Japan based on what they know of Tokyo. That's a lot like judging America based on, say, New York, or Germany based on Munich. For natives of those countries, they know that this is a gross misrepresentation of their culture, as such large cities often have unique micro-cultures of their own. Tokyo is very un-Japanese in many ways. It is a giant shopping district, attempting to be everything to everyone, and failing completely to have a personality of its own. But then, I prefer Osaka.

I found the article to be typical of the genre; very narrow scope that continues to feed the Western stereotypes of Japanese. My findings? There are only a few things that Japan has that are better than what you get in America; otherwise, we're pretty much on par. America is, after all, Japan's biggest market; it's in their best interest to continue to offer the latest tech.

Yeah, you can find weird novelty items for sale, but that doesn't mean people are buying it. Were Japanese to base their conceptions of America on what you can find in stores in Los Angeles, they'd be convinced that the creature comforts available in America are more elaborate, st

--
"Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life

Disposable income...I remember it well. by lamz · 2004-12-09 05:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

That article makes a lot of sense, especially about the cultural differences. The extremely tight real estate market ensures that people live with their parents for a long time, and that guarantees a higher level of disposable income. I can relate to that myself. Back in the summer of 1994, while I was working at Babbages and living at home, I bought an Atari Jaguar, and practically every game released for it.

The store manager's wife asked me how I could afford all that, and I told her that I had 100% disposable income. She freaked, and hated me forever for that comment, but it was true! I couldn't afford my own place or even a car, but I could buy all the game cartridges I wanted.

--

Mike van Lammeren
It will challenge your head, your brain, and your mind.

Re:Disposable income...I remember it well. by Alien54 · 2004-12-09 05:16 · Score: 5, Funny

The store manager's wife asked me how I could afford all that, and I told her that I had 100% disposable income. She freaked, and hated me forever for that comment, but it was true! I couldn't afford my own place or even a car, but I could buy all the game cartridges I wanted.
which is why your folks stll want you to move out.

--
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Re:Disposable income...I remember it well. by DaHat · 2004-12-09 05:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's good for the economy in the short term, but should he ever lose his free housing, he'd be SOL. Despite my inability to do it for years, saving for that rainy day is quite important.

--
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Re:Disposable income...I remember it well. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-09 05:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

The statistics say that most Americans don't save much money, no matter how much they make. The US has one of the lowest savings rates of any industrial nation.

Want proof? Add up your own figures, its easy. Take your account balances, and subtract the amount outstanding on your house, your cars, your toys, and your plastic. OK, lets be fair. If we call your home a long term asset, and unrealistically assume that its value will continue to increase, or stay where it is now (it won't, not once the interest rate correction hits, and removes all demand for 15% mortgages, not to mention the flood on the market as current owners find they can't afford the payments when they renew their mortgage at current rate +8%), just look at your short term debt.

Your worth negative how much? Much of the US has an odd way of looking at money, the focus is on "affording the payment" rather than "affording the purchase". This is fine, so long as nothing changes, like your job status, or the interest rates. I'm not saying it is stupid to borrow to finance large items, but Americans seem to borrow to finance everything. Groceries, consumer electronics, clothes, lunches, anything and everything. I love watching people do the "credit shuffle" as they try to decide which CC is still in good standing, or has enough room left for that 100 dollar purchase.

You can laugh at my car, but at least it is paid for. If I sell it today, its cash in my pocket. If you sell your 70% financed car, you will give all that money to the bank, and probably still owe more monthly payments, on an asset you no longer even posses.

So the answer is , No, the concept of "saving money" hadn't been invented yet. You can not expect your children to act much differently than you do yourself.
Re:Disposable income...I remember it well. by dykofone · 2004-12-09 05:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

If that money couldn't afford a car then, it wouldn't be able to afford a car in 5 years. If you work part time minimum wage, with the goal of working full-time with a salary in 5 years, why save up the pennies you make now when you'll have the cash anyway in 5 years.
If you spend an entire summer saving up $1000, you're gonna be kinda dissapointed you didn't just spend it when a few years later you're making that per week.
Re:Disposable income...I remember it well. by FinalCut · 2004-12-09 05:51 · Score: 4, Insightful

Im replying to parent because a couple of its children touched on this subject.

Parent here was kind of critisized for saying he lived with his parents (cause he was spending all of his money on games) and that if he had not been he could have adjusted his priorities and lived on his own.

Now, I'm not an expert on japanese (or any Asian) culture - however, my limited experience with a family that immigrated to the USA from Taiwan showed me one thing that was vastly different than traditional American families - they lived together.

And this isn't a poor immigrant family, they are exceoptionally wealthy and successful. However, having grandma living at home,and adult children living in the house as well wasn't frowned on. The sense of responsibility to family was a bit different than I have seen in other homes.

Maybe they were an anomoly, but the article makes me think that this isn't so.

Not only is real estate more expensive in Japan - but perhaps living at home with Mom and Dad isn't viewed in the same negative "slacker" connotation that it is here. Just like the desire for cooler gadgetry is a cultural thing so too, it would seem, is the accepatability of living with mom/dad even after you are capable of living on your own.

What strikes me about the article is that the Kids aren't helping with the cost of rent/mortgage. Now, I doubt that all adult children who are living with their parents in Japan are stiffing their parents for the bill. But the fact that it was mentioned this way makes me think that it maybe the norm.

I know in my family the level of family responsibility goes both ways. Once I turned 18 - if I spent any time living with my parents (which I did for about 6 months) I paid a fair rent equitable to the cost of a 1 bedroom studio in the area I lived in. Plus I forked over cash for groceries if I ate any.

Maybe I'm just whacked - but the sense of responsibility to family (providing free shelter for adult, money earning, children) and the lack of same by the children seems as important to the gadget craze success in Japan as teenage school girls.
Re:Disposable income...I remember it well. by Golias · 2004-12-09 07:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

The old saw that "the cheapest car to drive is the one you already own" is certainly true, however the safety features of cars made in the last ten years or so compell me to urge anybody driving a car from before the mid-90s to consider scraping together the cash for an upgrade.

My 2000 Nissan pickup truck had an off-set front colission at 35MPH (each way) when a drunk driver coming the other way swered right into me. Both cars were totalled, but I walked out of it with nothing but a seat-belt bruise and a couple little friction burns on the backs of my thumbs (from the airbag deployment). It was a thing of beauty how the engine compartment gave itself up to preserve the shape of the cab. If I was in a late-80s Ford F-150, I would have spent less money, but I would be dead.

Cars cost a lot. Extended hospital stays cost more.

--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:Disposable income...I remember it well. by coldtone · 2004-12-09 08:06 · Score: 2, Interesting

This is off topic, but the parent post got me thinking.

I moved out of my home when I was 18. I wasn't kicked out, but I was told it was important to go and encouraged by my parents to do so. The thought being that the sooner I learned how to make it on my own the better off I would be.

So I worked some crappy jobs, went over my head in debt to pay for school, got my diploma and got a job. Things where very tight, all I did was live in crappy conditions and pay off debt. Fast forward 6 years things are better. I was finally able to get a house, and I have a little bit of savings.

Compare that to some of my friends that never had to move out and face the real world. Most of them still live at home, make more money then me, and have enough in the bank to buy a large house with cash. They are generally happier, and have less stress. Also since they have never had to have a job to survive they have been able to take risks with there careers, which has enabled them to make more.

Is there any point to going out and living on your own? What's the upside of leaving before your 21, or even 30?

Ummmm..... by JerC · 2004-12-09 05:14 · Score: 2, Insightful

Because they'll actually buy and use them?

--
Sigs are for squares. Like pants!

Grass Is Greener by fembots · 2004-12-09 05:14 · Score: 4, Insightful

Why do the Japanese get all the coolest gadgets, while the U.S. is left with the second-tier, less-innovative ones?

Maybe, just maybe it's because Japanese made those gadgets.

Or maybe it's just a "grass-is-greener" syndrome.

--
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.

In some respects... by nordicfrost · 2004-12-09 05:17 · Score: 3, Interesting

...USA lags behind Europe too. Europe was quicker to adopt the digital mobile world with SMS and e-payment. USA has been the leader in big iron, Japan and Europe leaders in small, creative and applied tech.

Re:In some respects... by Octorian · 2004-12-09 05:49 · Score: 4, Insightful

The issue of USA vs. Others on the mobile/wireless world really bothers me, because I feel like the pundits are missing some important factors. First, the US has built a wired telecommunications infrastructure, and we've been doing it for so long that the wireless infrastructure is more of a "like to have" than a "need to have". Second, we have so much more land area and spread-out population that implementing anything requiring wide-scale infrastructure is far more difficult to begin with.
Re:In some respects... by Macadamizer · 2004-12-09 06:42 · Score: 2, Informative

This is the point exactly -- I don't have any mod points, so the best I can do is agree with you!

I spent a month in Tanzania this summer -- our guide in the Serengeti got better cell reception out in the middle of Africa then I get on 280 in Palo Alto.

But until cell phones can get to the 99.9999% reception or whatever the number is that landlines have, I doubt that we'll see the cell phone displacing the lanline anytime soon.

Plus, I read an article a couple of years back that basically stated that in a lot of European countries, the move to cell phones was at least in part driven by the very high taxes levied on land lines...

--

"That's not even wrong..." -- Wolfgang Pauli

duh by nil5 · 2004-12-09 05:17 · Score: 4, Funny

because we spend our money on the latest and greatest weapons and warfare.

inarguably.

Re:morning procedure.. by UWC · 2004-12-09 05:18 · Score: 2, Funny

What the article fails to mention is that the family physician is a 20-foot robot. He processes all this morning information while he "sleeps" in a closet in his office.

--
Honor Among Slackers. A veri

Well one obvious reason is infrastructure by hsmith · 2004-12-09 05:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

it is a lot harder to change around cell technologies due to how spread out the US is, Japan you have a dense packed population.

if we were all packed into rhode island you would see some awesome technology becuase updating the infrastrucutre would take no time at all.

Re:Well one obvious reason is infrastructure by jc42 · 2004-12-09 06:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

Actually, if you consider the US East Coast ("BosWash", the Boston-to-Washington corridor), and a 100-mile-wide strip along the West Coast, the population densities and areas are comparable to Japan and Northwestern Europe. And the technophile population of those areas is comparable to Japan's and Europe's. So you'd think that the infrastructure would have been built up in those two parts of the US as they have been in Japan.

Lots has been written about why this isn't true. The common explanation seems to be the unwillingness of US businesses to plan for anything beyond the current quarter. American corporations don't make long-term investments any more. They want to know what will be a sure source of profit in the very short term. Anything risky is left for someone else to develop.

--
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.

duplicate post by musikit · 2004-12-09 05:19 · Score: 2, Interesting

watch in 5 minutes someone will submit the story

"Japan beta-tests U.S. consumer goods"

frankly i rather they do... they spent the money on crap while we get the working model

Could it be... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-09 05:19 · Score: 4, Funny

Could it be that I prefer to not be monitored by my toilet?

Re:Could it be... by Daimaou · 2004-12-09 05:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

I think you are on to something. A lot of the cool gadgets that I grew accustom to in Japan, purchased, and brought back to America just didn't make sense here. I ended up boxing most of the stuff up.

A lot of their technology solves issues that exist in their culture or environment, but may not exist elsewhere. Most of the gadgets centered around the collection and distribution of business cards fit into this category, I think.

Re:Moving back to asia by Swamii · 2004-12-09 05:22 · Score: 3, Funny

One of my main reasons which drive me to move back to asia, for all the gadget glory.

The other reason being your fetish for Japanese midgets, for all the midget wrestling glory.

--
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit

Why? Let me tell you ... by jeff13 · 2004-12-09 05:23 · Score: 2, Insightful

... having lived in Japan and been to Akihabara I can tell you it's easy to have far more product, and far better quality product, in Japan because it has a massive population on a place the size of Nova Scotia.

With housing costs so high people live with family and have lots of spending money. Money to get this years new "whatever" model.

Wakata?

I didn't bother to read the article. I lived it.

The Amish don't have urine sugar sensing toilets! by scotay · 2004-12-09 05:24 · Score: 3, Funny

Why do the Mennonites get all the good stuff first?

It's the tech in Japan, and the food in Europe... by ivan256 · 2004-12-09 05:26 · Score: 5, Interesting

At least we can import Japanese technology. Customs won't confiscate something for not complying with FCC regulations, but they will confiscate food!

In Europe you're allowed to make and sell things that contain non-pasturized dairy products. In the US, you're not. Apparently americans aren't allowed to determine for themselves what is or isn't an acceptable risk. So the best European young cheeses and chocolates have poor substitutes as their namesakes in the US.

To make matters worse, they've convinced people here that "ultra-pasturized" means "better", even though it just means they used extra high temperatures to get it done more quickly and save money at the expense of flavor. That means the milk here doesn't taste nearly as good as it could under the current regulations. All this in the name of safety, yet at the same time, you can't get irradiated beef...

Sigh.

Re:Ob. South Park Ref. by Schemat1c · 2004-12-09 05:31 · Score: 4, Funny

Japanese guy: "Yes, We may have best gadgets, but you Americans have bigga penis"

Judging by all the Hummer II's I've been seeing, not so much.

--

"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown

Smart toilet. by titusjan · 2004-12-09 05:32 · Score: 5, Funny

Johnny stumbles to the bathroom to answer the call of nature using the household's amazing Matsushita-brand Smart Toilet, which automatically measures his weight, body fat, blood pressure and urine sugar and sends the results to the Sokko family physician via the Internet.

"Your urine contains traces of an illegal subtance. The bathroom door has been locked and the police has been notified. Please remain seated until they arrive.

Thank you for using Matsushita."

In a nutshell ... by RealAlaskan · 2004-12-09 05:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

The article says that Americans don't get the gadgets because we

1) don't really want them very badly, and
2) don't have the infrastructure to support most of them (see (1)).

The Japanese are largely status-seeking early-adopters, says the article, while most Americans just don't care. Fewer Americans are early adopters, and those of us who are into conspicuous consumption prefer non-technological money wasters, like big houses, Persian rugs, and so on.

I'd say that most Americans I've met resemble those remarks.

There. Now you don't have to waste any time reading the article.

--
See what I've been reading.

Perspective by mosel-saar-ruwer · 2004-12-09 05:32 · Score: 2, Funny

True, but let's put this into perspective.

Pentium Xeon, Itanic, AMD-64 with Hypertransport, PowerPC, Sparc...
Windows 2003, OSX, FreeBSD, Solaris, AIX, OS390...
SQLServer, DB2, Oracle, Informix...
AS400, S390, Clariion, E15000...
Ford F-350, Chevy CK 3500, Dodge Hemmy Ram...
John Deere, Navistar, Cummings Diesel...
NASCAR, Bass Fishing, NCAA Tournament, Superbowl, Budweiser, Miller, Hot Chicks...

I mean - it's not like we don't have some cool toys of our own.

[Ours just aren't quite so damned gay...]

Re:Perspective by lucabrasi999 · 2004-12-09 05:49 · Score: 2, Funny

Bass Fishing cool
Mark this date down, people! That may be the only time you'll ever see the words "Bass" "Fishing" and "cool" in the same phrase or paragraph.

Oh, you forgot Bowling and Professional Wrestling.
Re:Perspective by beerits · 2004-12-09 05:57 · Score: 3, Informative

Professional Wrestling
Professional Wrestling is more popular in Japan than it is in the United States.

Re:Because they're dorks? by ChibiOne · 2004-12-09 05:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

You know, you think DDR is for dorks, whereas youngsters there would think it's cool. On the other hand, Japanese may think some of the cool stuff you like is worthless or dorky.

It's all a matter of cultural differences, and these include the forces that drive the market in each country.

Meowlingual - Language Translator by hobbespatch · 2004-12-09 05:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

My wife is Japanese so we get to go to Japan once a year or so. Last year we got a 'Meowlingual' which really is very accurate on translating a cat's needs/wants/and moods. My wife mentioned that Taraka is making a handheld Universal Translator - when you speak into it - it will translate what you said into different languages or will translate what someone says into your language. Anyone heard about that?

--
Still Mud? Try www.phoenixmud.org!

Re:Meowlingual - Language Translator by lucabrasi999 · 2004-12-09 06:02 · Score: 2, Funny

a 'Meowlingual' which really is very accurate on translating a cat's needs/wants/and moods
Here's an actual transcript of a recent Meowlingual translation:

C: "Meow!"
M: "Feed Me!"
Cat: "Meow!"
Meowlingual: "I am the coolest thing on this planet".
C: "Meow!"
M: "Don't touch me! Leave me alone!"
C: "Meow!"
M: "I am way too important to be inside this house!"
C: "Meow!"
M: "I will do what I want, when I want, and YOU will learn to like it!"
Re:Meowlingual - Language Translator by Foobar+of+Borg · 2004-12-09 06:08 · Score: 2, Funny

My wife mentioned that Taraka is making a handheld Universal Translator - when you speak into it - it will translate what you said into different languages or will translate what someone says into your language. Anyone heard about that?
Shaka, when the walls fell.

--
Similar to the upcoming US election results

Fantasy Island by HarveyBirdman · 2004-12-09 05:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

1. Sony PSP (Playstation Portable)

Wow! The power of a Plastation *1* with a tiny screen! Be still my heart! Sorry, but small and portable does not automatically equate to "cool" anymore. I feel the same lack of caring I felt when cell phones started having games I played on my Atari 800. TrueEnvy Factor: 0

2. Sharp Zaurus SL-C3000:

Another dumbass tiny computer running a dumber ass OS. Who cares? Why is this cool? TruEnvy Factor: One complimentary BSOD.

3. DoCoMo "Mobile FeliCa" Payment System:

Wow. More ways to spend money. I'm sure retailers like this. Is it that difficult to slide the credit card through the little slot, and then just pay the bills at the end of the month? Have some perspective, folks. People use to have to carry cows, sheep and dughters around with them in order to effect trade. And DoCoMo sounds like a Pokemon creature. TruEnvy Factor: -2

4. The NEC V601N:

TeeVee on my cell phone. Who cares? What sort of deprived life do you have to lead to give a fook about this stuff? TrueEnvy Factor: Undetectable by modern scientific instrumentality.

5. SONY Clie VZ-90:

I bought a PDA once. Within a month I was back to a small Meade paper and pen based scheduling system and never looked back. TruEnvy Factor: Planck's constant.

6. Takara's Dream Factory

New Age hits Japan. I fear for the anime industry. TrueEnvy Factor: Three tenths of a quartz crystal.

7. Sony HMP-A1 Portable Media Player: Wish your iPod could play back movies?

No. Not really.

Sony hopes you do.

Sony would like the PIN numbers to my accounts as well.

Its new HMP-A1 PMP offers 20 gigabytes of MP3 and MPEG-4 playback goodness

*snore*

it even has a video-out jack so you can watch your flicks on a big-screen TV instead of its embedded sharp but tiny 3.5-inch screen.

Thus illustrating its pointlessness. TrueEnvy Factor: One negasphere of nonexistence.

--
--- Ban humanity.

Re:Fantasy Island by zx75 · 2004-12-09 06:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

Congratulations! You have successfully recorded an American attitude to *new and shiny things*, the primary reason WHY the Japanese have access to the latest and greatest while the US must wait.

--
This is not a sig.
Re:Fantasy Island by HarveyBirdman · 2004-12-09 08:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

You have successfully recorded an American attitude to *new and shiny things*
What? We like things to have some level of actual use and practicality?
Damn, I only *wish* people in this country thought like that. We'd never have a budget deficit ever again.
the primary reason WHY the Japanese have access to the latest and greatest while the US must wait.
And yet, somehow, life goes on.

--
--- Ban humanity.

dynamism by necrognome · 2004-12-09 05:35 · Score: 4, Interesting

Check out Dynamism for import gear with US warranties and support. Compact Impact has some cool gear to show off, and also has a showroom in the East Village (this store was previously named TKNY). If you are a New Yorker, the showroom is worth a visit, because the owner is a wacky guy who makes custom computers without moving parts.

--

Let's get drunk and delete production data!

test dummies by Doc+Ruby · 2004-12-09 05:36 · Score: 4, Insightful

Market conditions in Japan and America are locked in a cause/effect loop. Underneath the Japanese teen rage for new devices, and the American sloth in buying a few innovations at WalMart, are the marketing machines behind the markets.

"Japan's trade surplus with the United States remains astronomically high, at over $6 billion; yet [Japan] keeps its most innovative and exciting widgetry to itself, selling it only to the domestic market."

Neither Japanese manufacturers nor American stores want to take big risks in marketing untested products to a fickle market, but they also depend on competing with their old devices based largely on "newness". So Japanese manufacturers test their devices in Japan, figuring out which are popular with whom, before they send any to the US to be sold for the big revenue.

None of that is going to change any time soon. The only way for Americans to get stuff first, as a test market, is to make it first. Like we do with content: movies, music, fashion; American manufacturers test that stuff here (even when the factories are overseas), then market the winners over there. It's not so much where the factories are, as where are the innovators and marketers, and the test markets where they can afford to fail before going global.

--

--
make install -not war

europe by drago · 2004-12-09 05:37 · Score: 2, Informative

hey, be happy you don't live in Europe! We get the cool gadgets even later than the US and for twice the price anyways. And don't even _think_ about current movies!

Quite simple. by TiggertheMad · 2004-12-09 05:38 · Score: 2, Funny

The US doesn't recruit the mad geniuses the way Japan does. Japan has an aggressive program that attracts and subsidizes their research in many important fields, such as mecha research, mind control rays, cellular reanimation techniques, and psychic enhancement. As a result, we are trailing behind Japan in the tech race.

Some have pointed out that we don't have giant robots battling in the strees, gangs of psychic mutant orphans roaming the streets, and little to no defense against nude female aliens with magical powers, but I for one don't really find that to be a realistic assesment of the situation. As anyone in Japan can tell you, those problems are more than adequately delt with by the superhero cyborg schoolgirls that roam the countryside.

--

HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!

we're not all such big boobies! by Petrox · 2004-12-09 05:39 · Score: 2, Interesting

money quote:

""The way business works here is simple," says David J. Farber. "In America, if you have a potential product, you do research, you try to figure out the size of the potential market. And if it's a totally new, totally innovative thing, where no one has any idea of the size of the market, and there's no guaranteed return on a large investment, well, forget it. No American company will touch it. In Japan, it's usually quite the opposite: manufacturers know that the home market loves new stuff; they'll take risks there, hoping that something will catch fire and take off. The only U.S. company that's doing that is Apple, and, honestly, I don't think that even Steve Jobs, in all of his infinite wisdom, thought that the iPod was going to take off the way it has.""

how about that? who knew that I, with my ibook/ipod toting ways, was such a technological zeitgeist?

--
sig my booty, check my website

Three years ago... by Chagatai · 2004-12-09 05:39 · Score: 4, Informative

My wife and I went to Japan for our honeymoon. Naturally, we went to Akihabara twice during our visit. I was so amazed at the gear that they had there three years ago that is still barely showing up here. They already had full-blown DVD camcorders for fairly reasonable prices. We tried on a pair of goggles that gave the person wearing them a virtual cinema, projecting what appeared to be a 80" screen for TV, movies, and computer systems (!) in front of the user, complete with stereo sound. The cost? About $400. Hell, they even had cellphones playing some sort of Dreamcast game (I believe it was Space Channel 5). We both left the "Electric Town" wondering why we hadn't seen any of this in the US; now this article makes a little more sense of it.

Then again, everything is cooler... in Japan!!!

--
--Chag

Supporting irradiated beef ??? by MyTwoCentsWorth · 2004-12-09 05:41 · Score: 5, Insightful

Of course, hearing the word irradiated beef makes one shudder... since people refuse to understand that irradiating food is one of the safest way of preserving it for long terms without the need for refrigeration, artificial preservatives, etc.
As soon as someone can how me ONE study showing ANY danger from irradiated food, and we can start comparing it against the well know risks of all the other preservation methods.
It's a pity that most people do not try to think about this, but reject it automatically.
Have fun posting.

Re:Supporting irradiated beef ??? by CptNerd · 2004-12-09 06:38 · Score: 2, Funny

I'll have to remember that next time I order a Salmonella omelet with a side of Botulism soup.

With extra E.Coli for flavor...

--
By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
Re:Supporting irradiated beef ??? by slashdot_commentator · 2004-12-09 10:33 · Score: 2, Funny

As soon as someone can how me ONE study showing ANY danger from irradiated food, and we can start comparing it against the well know risks of all the other preservation methods.

Apparently, you've never seen cautionary tales as "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes". Of course, after seeing "The Toxic Avenger" I'd take irradiation over chemical preservatives any day...)

--
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon

it's the countries sizes stupid by rtphokie · 2004-12-09 05:46 · Score: 2, Insightful

Much of the tech wizardry mentioned in the article centers around telecommunications infrastructure. Rolling out a new generation of telecom in Japan is a lot different than rolling it out in the US. There are many more companies in the US which own the existing infrastructure and a much much larger land area to cover especially with wireless services.

No reason to bring the neat toys to the US if there isn't an infrastructure to make them work. Even Europe has a much easier time rolling out very new technologies because of it's smaller size.

Obligatory DNF reference by sconeu · 2004-12-09 05:51 · Score: 5, Funny

So do they have Duke Nukem Forever yet?

--
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.

Re:Because they're dorks? by Kphrak · 2004-12-09 06:00 · Score: 2, Interesting

I mean, DDR? Perfect example.

On the contrary, that's one of the worst examples you could possibly think of. Go into a Fry's Electronics or some other store with a DDR display, and you will almost always see some teenager dancing on it. And there's no one as fashion-conscious or worried about being "uncool" as a teenager.

I'm not even sure tech in general is dorky anymore here (now take this with a grain of salt, this is a Slashdotter talking about tech). Even building one's computer from parts, once a pastime strictly confined to nerds, is now a Vin-Diesel-esque affair of snapping together neon-colored parts that reminds one more of ricing out a Honda than building a computer. Video games now boast celebrity appearances, product placements, and midnight openings.

Let's face it. The guys who stuffed us in lockers and stole our lunch money back in the 80s came back, and this time they stole our nerdy hobbies. What was once geeky is now cool. Even here in the US.

--

There's no sig like this sig anywhere near this sig, so this must be the sig.

Re:Discretionary by WaterBreath · 2004-12-09 06:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's important to note that a big part of this conservatism is in the corporate aspect of society. The U.S. has many well-established industries that are integral to our economy. And they, instead of embracing new technology and making the most out of them, don't want to bet the company on changing their business model which has worked for decades. And since they're integral to the economy, the government is scared to force them to evolve with the times, for fear they will fail and hurt the country as a whole. Japan, whose entire government and economy had to be "rebooted" earlier in this century, has a huge advantage over us in that respect. They know an awful lot about moving consistently forward.

For examples, just look to the telecom and automotive industries. Why are American cars still dependent on oil? Why, for crap's sake, is it not okay for the government to provide free wirless broadband access in Philadelphia? Because the corporations are afraid to give way to advancement and try something new. I'm pretty sure there are not many people in Philly who would not like to have free wireless internet, but they don't get a say because some corporation doesn't like it.

If you ask me, businesses will be the only first-class citizens in this nation very soon. Just look how much sway they hold just by saying to the government "you can't do that, it will hurt our profit margins." For crap's sake, sink or swim. Evolve, or become extinct. Japan is evolving. We are not.

Wrong, as usual. by sakusha · 2004-12-09 06:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

The writer betrays his lack of understanding of the Japanese market, let alone culture. He blunders forward with the usual stereotypes, and totally fails to understand the fundamentals. The issue has nothing to do with "tribes," disposable income, or small housing.

Japan is a small country, where fads rise and fall much more rapidly than in a larger country like the US. This means products tend to compete over much smaller market sectors, with much shorter market lives. Think about the Tamagotchi. Bandai couldn't keep up with demand, they built new factories to keep up with demand, but by the time the factories were ready, the fad had died. Bandai went into bankruptcy.
Japanese markets are like a pressure cooker, products have short lives, and incremental improvements are added to produce new products to replace the old ones. This philosophy of "continuous improvement" is known as kaizen. Products in Japan evolve more rapidly than in other countries.
Japanese consumers are also better educated than other countries. There is a whole industry of magazines devoted to the most miniscule details of every product on the market. I remember seeing one fashion magazine that spent 20 pages just discussing the quality of stitching in men's dress shirts. And Japanese computer magazines are the same, they put US magazines to shame. Japanese consumers will not put up with anything less than the best products, driving the kaizen cycle even faster.
Japanese corporations are quick to take advantage of the home market. There are thousands of consumer products released in Japan that never make it to the international market, and this is intentional. Japan is the test market. Sometimes a product will go through several improvements before it's ready for larger world markets. Products that flop in Japan aren't even considered for internationalization. Japanese consumers are the beta testers of the world.

Who Cares? by $criptah · 2004-12-09 06:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

Can somebody tell me why we should care about it? Seriously, if Japan has cooler toys, more power to them. Who the fuck cares? Are you really upset because you cannot get your e-mail faster? At this point of time, Americans behave like crowds of cattle when it comes to shopping.... Would you like to put more spin onto that?

I certainly do not. Stuff is not what we should care about because as long as we do so, we will always be unhappy with something. Remeber, grass is greener on the other side. I can't believe that this bullshit makes to Slashdot nowadays. Seriously, it sounds like a bunch of stupid teenage girls who complain about boots, dresses and shirts that do not fit.

I can get upset because U.S. students lag behind in math and science, but not because somebody has a cooler DVD camera. Give me a break... P.S.: It is not what you have, it is what you do with it.

"...let's put this into perspective..." by asr_man · 2004-12-09 06:11 · Score: 2, Insightful

Johnny lives in ... a cramped three-bedroom apartment shared with his parents and his teenage sister.

Yes, let's.

No amount of technology could sufficiently drive such a dismal reality from my mind. Not that Johnny Sokko would necessarily say that. Nevertheless I'm grateful that where I lived enabled me to escape it entirely.

IMO not a fair characterization by Lead+Butthead · 2004-12-09 06:12 · Score: 2, Interesting

My observation is that Japanese companies tend to use their domestic market as their paying beta testers. What this means is that the latest gears will go through revisions/improvements base on domestic market feedback before being unleashed on North America. The gest of it is that we'll always be a year or two slower than Japanese domestic market.

--
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?

Couldn't be because by HangingChad · 2004-12-09 06:22 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's easier to get products to market in Japan without being regulated to death? And here in the litigation-happy USA we'll sue any of you almond-eyed little weasels trying to import anything that isn't completely, 100% idiot proof. Because here we have no responsibility for our personal choices. If we decide to use one of your electronic gizmos as a tub toy and that electrically powered instrument isn't clearly marked DO NOT USE AS A TUB TOY, we're going to sue your ass.

Because this is the country where we have to put stickers on pop machines that say if you pull this pop machine over on yourself you might die, where we have to print DO NOT DRIVE WITH SUN SHIELD IN PLACE on the back of cardboard sun screens and PULL TAB TO OPEN because sure as you're born there will be some idiot trying to cut the top of the can off with his pocket knife and he'll slip and cut himself.

Yes, we've really become that stupid. Just look at who we elected president any time you're tempted to doubt it.

--
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage

Re:Couldn't be because by Heian-794 · 2004-12-09 06:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

Litigation-happy is the right word. Here in Japan, companies can release really cool, but buggy and defective, technology without the fear of customers returning it in droves. It's just too difficult to return any product in Japan that people give up and buy new ones. Contrast that with the US where you can sometimes return a book to the store even after obviously reading it, or returning clothing. Inconceivable in Japan, sometimes even when the defect is the company's fault -- the army of lawyers in the US would never allow such a state of affairs.

Bad consumers by tedrlord · 2004-12-09 06:29 · Score: 2, Insightful

So what the article is telling us is that Americans are crappy consumers compared to the Japanese. If we'd only spend all our money on new, expensive, and mostly useless gadgets every six months, we'd catch right up to them.

C'mon people! These megacorporations want to help you, but you need to put in some effort first! Where's your national pride?

--
[insert witty quote here]

I've said it before... by KanSer · 2004-12-09 06:45 · Score: 3, Insightful

and I'll say it again. The only reason Japan and Japanese have these sweet 500$ cell-phones is because they see it as a perfectly good investment every 6 months to a year. They relish the new phone with new features, or one that is slimmer or cooler than the next.

In America we want a 99c phone. That's why we get hamstrung in these ridiculous 3 year or more service contracts. If you actually spend the same amount of money that Japanese do on phones, you'll quickly find you have very similair or the same phone.

Seriously, there is no "reason" why they get cool gadgets and we don't. It's not like there's a huge creature in the Pacific that feasts on cargo ships. We just don't want to pay $400 some odd bucks up front. We prefer low monthly installments. /rolls eyes

This also explains the year-18 month lag in tech. We just wait for it to get cheap. (Which is ironic, because we Americans as a whole try to piss money away faster than we can earn it.)

--

MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward Wednesday April 20, @4:20

Re:I've said it before... by DaBestSpooner · 2004-12-09 07:58 · Score: 2, Informative

I've never seen a $500 cellphone in japan nor have I 've seen a $.99 cellphone in the US. $50 in Japan gets you the equivlent of a $500 cellphone in the US complete with megapixel camera, outlook integration, and fast internet. Heck I just bought $60 cellphone in japan at a convience store, that the equivlent of a motorola V600, too bad I cant use it back in NY.
Re:I've said it before... by TylerL82 · 2004-12-09 08:36 · Score: 2, Funny

They ship all their garbage to America, package it, and resell it.

One word that can debunk this whole mess: by antifoidulus · 2004-12-09 06:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

iPod.
They cannot not make the iPod mini fast enough to meet Japanese consumer demand....but the iPod isn't Japanese. Just goes to show that anyone anywhere can create some very interesting gadgets. While it's true that the US has less than Japan, I don't know how many of us need usb aroma therapy....
The only good thing they really have on us is cellular service, but there are a lot of reasons it's hard to do in the US, and honestly, I'm not entirely confortable with my phone doing a lot more things than being a phone....

--
Monstar L

Re:Discretionary by Desert+Raven · 2004-12-09 06:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

Japan, whose entire government and economy had to be "rebooted" earlier in this century, has a huge advantage over us in that respect. They know an awful lot about moving consistently forward.

Have you looked at the Japanese economy over the past 5 years? Saying it's in the toilet would be an understatement. It's showing signs of recovering, but our little mini-recession looked like a major bubble compared to Japan's economy.

Why are American cars still dependent on oil?

Because like it or not, it's still the most efficient/economic method of powering vehicles in a country where average travel distances are large. I-C engines also have extreme longevity when compared to many other methods. I've owned three vehicles that passed 75K miles, and one with over 100K miles, all maintained in good condition and running strong. Electrics just aren't economical to maintain for that kind of usage. On the plus side for the future, we finally are seeing some technologies with the possibility of changing this, and one interim method, biodiesel.

Why, for crap's sake, is it not okay for the government to provide free wirless broadband access in Philadelphia?

Because that's not their job. Their job is to provide essential emergency services, maintain the transportation infrastructure and provide defense. They should no more be building wireless ISPs than they should be building multi-billion dollar playgrounds for spoiled millionares (stadiums). Besides, inspite of how cool it sounds, have you ever seen the government do any long-term project right? Most Pennsylvania governments have a hard time keeping the potholes down to non-fatal sizes, and you want them to run your ISP? I grew up near Philly, I wouldn't trust them with tin cans and string.

I'm pretty sure there are not many people in Philly who would not like to have free wireless internet,

It's not "free", the government raises taxes to pay for it, which means a lot of folks who don't want or need it still have to pay for it, and that's not fair.

Re:Maybe we don't want them? by Cid+Highwind · 2004-12-09 06:59 · Score: 2, Interesting

Your vehement rejection of cell phone technology does not make you a charismatic iconoclast, a trendy counter-culture hero, or a beautiful and unique snowflake. It makes you that guy your co-workers all hate because they can never reach you if they need help.

--
0 1 - just my two bits

I think the article is incomplete and one sided. by xotx69 · 2004-12-09 07:07 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm not trolling, but the guy should stick to writing guides to Cinemas or whatever.

While I'm sure most of his information is sound, he forgot a very important piece of information. The development of better tech toys over there is due to the fact that after the surrender of Japan to US (or Allies..whatever), Japan was restricted to domestic/consumer products. Any military development was frowned upon/stopped due to the fact the US was now stationed there.

An example was after the invention of the Transistor by Bratten/Shockly/Bardeen (sp?), 2 electrical engineers running a radio store took that concept and made ICs to make radios and started what is now called Sony.

So you see, Japan was forced to emphasize domestic consumer goods by the US since developing anything related to Military was a no-no. Thus the head start on everyone else, and why North America is always a couple of years behind in certain aspects of the tech toys.

Quality tolerance by gammoth · 2004-12-09 07:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

I was born and raised in California. When I was a young adult, I moved overseas for 10 years. When I returned about 6 years ago, one of the first things to strike me was Americans' tolerance for mediocrity, both in products and services. Just as long as they can get a ton of stuff that work good enough without having to read the manual.

That tolerance, coupled with a pervasive belief that America has the best of everything, from political systems to health care to consumer products (many Americans hate it when I give counter examples--really rocks their world view), suggests a fertile ground for technological stagnation.

Tell me to piss off if you like. I couldn't give a toss.

Sex, technology, fetishization by shonagon53 · 2004-12-09 07:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

I have a cliché and I can't refrain from posting it: the japanese obsession with technological gadgetry even pervades their sexuality. Not that their sexlives are technologized, but they're "fetishized". The fetish is in sexuality, what a gadget is in economic behavior.

Now ask any h**ker who's ever worked in Japan, and she'll tell you that the Japanese are into things such as sniffing feet, touching zippers, cutting toenails and making origami from panties. Everything is fragmented, the person is reduced to an assemblage of sexual gadgets.

There must be something very deeply anthropological about this fetishization of ordinary life. You can't explain Japan's gizmobsession simply by referring to demographics, social space-time factors or other such sociological schemes. There must be something deeply ritualistic in all this, stemming from the traditional mind of the Japanese.

Ah well, maybe it's too much of a cliché and maybe it says more about our Eurocentric obsession with the East. We will never really know.

Don't forget about state taxes by ink · 2004-12-09 07:29 · Score: 2, Insightful

Europe and Japan have had state-run telephone companies that charge ridiculous rates for land lines. With wireless came competition and cheaper phone service; which of course brought investment for differentiation. Contrast this with the US, where one can call local numbers for "free" with basic service (from 15-30 dollars a month). Our local coverage here extends about 90 miles in all directions. I do own a cell phone, but I get the cheapest service because it's simply a portable phone for me, and not a replacement for my Qwest line (which is also my DSL).

--
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.

Re:Discretionary by glockenspieler · 2004-12-09 07:36 · Score: 4, Interesting

Ok, i can't suppress the urge to reply to this.

"Why, for crap's sake, is it not okay for the government to provide free wirless broadband access in Philadelphia?"

Because that's not their job. Their job is to provide essential emergency services, maintain the transportation infrastructure and provide defense. They should no more be building wireless

The definition of "emergency services" and "infrastructure" should be allowed to evolve. We may very well be at the beginning of a process where continual connectivity is indeed a part of critical infrastructure that is the legitimate role of government. To legislate this out of existence seems a bit presumptive and smacks of protecting corporate interests.

of how cool it sounds, have you ever seen the government do any long-term project right? Most Pennsylvania governments have a hard time keeping the potholes down to non-fatal sizes, and you want them to run your ISP? I grew up near Philly, I wouldn't trust them with tin cans and string.

Many cities have functioning water supplies, sewer systems, electicity grids. No all function optimally but we get the water, we don't get sick from it, and our poo goes by by. Yes, government can function and this government hating mantra so common these days is vastly overdone.

"Im pretty sure there are not many people in Philly who would not like to have free wireless internet"

It's not "free", the government raises taxes to pay for it, which means a lot of folks who don't want or need it still have to pay for it, and that's not fair.

Excellent point. There are parts of the city that I never go in, why the hell am i paying for street lights there. I never use the damned things. Its unfair people, blatantly unfair!. Do you ever stop to consider, just once, the possibility that you may derive indirect benefits from things and that government isn't about benefiting just YOU, its about the community. I think that a reasonable argument could be made that there might be benefits to the community. At least its not obvious that this is completely inappropriate for government.

Re:Hrmm by ducomputergeek · 2004-12-09 08:18 · Score: 2, Interesting

I will beg to differ with that assesment. The federal government should staying the hell away from standardizing anything when it comes to primary schools. Why many school districts are hacing issues now are because 80%+ of their budgets are strangled by federal and/or state mandates. If most of the funding comes from locally collected taxes, there should be some kind of basic standards in math, reading, and writing for each grade level nationally, then let the local community figure out how to best go about the tasks.

Not saying that all those on school boards should be, as with any elected office, but the fact that these are typically locally elected members means that the community can still kick them out if they do a bad job. Ever try to fire anyone in the Federal Government? Or better yet, has any burocrat ever listened to you? Federalize the system and the very same people that control policy now, aka the lobby groups with money, will control the schools as well. Is that really what you want? One lobby gets powerful enough and poof, evolution is gone from the biology books. Probably a bad example, but...

My gradfather served on his local school board just after consolodation from one room country schools to larger districts. He was a farmer, but they fired bad people and did the best that they could. Many of that generation, like my parents, were the first in the family to attend college. What made school boards, and many other organizations back then, more effective was that people in the community gave a damn about the community. They didn't run for school board to hold an office, they did so because of a genuine desire to make sure their kids and others' kids got the best education that was possible with the resources.

--
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.

gomi no sensi by splatterboy · 2004-12-09 08:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

So much great tech gets thrown into the garbage in Japan they have a name for the people who seek out the trash - Master of garbage. Gomi no sensi is a Japanese term for people who "find" great working stuff in the garbage. People in Japan will buy a new tv simply because their tv is 1 or 2 years old. Novelty (new) means something different there, it's closer to "original" than "trendy". It drives the culture and the economy - newer = better. Very far from the cliché of the Japanese as "copycats". I've lived there and I recommend it highly.

In America people say "if it aint broke don't fix it". That attitude is why "early adopter" (ie: trendy bastard, yuppy scum, geek) has a borderline negative connotation here.

We have an agricultural attitude here about almost everything - "built to last". As a culture, most Americans yearn for a fictional "leave it to beaver" past and will not buy a new anything until the old one is dead. Most Americans are simply more conservative than they/you think they are. Look at how most Americans choose whom to vote for for president. (I'm a New Yorker, I'll skip that one for now...) Something most slashdotters forget - you are not typical Americans.

I am not saying its perfect in Japan and bad in America, far from it. But I will say travel anywhere, anytime you can, broaden your mind. Its all good.

--
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." ~The Honorable Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Slashdot Mirror

The Japanese/American Tech Deficit

95 of 787 comments (clear)