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Using The Gyration Media Center Remote With Linux
Bruce Perens writes "The Gyration Media Center Remote is a radio keyboard and mouse with 100-foot range. The mouse uses an accelerometer rather than a mouse wheel, and thus has the unique feature that you can make mouse gestures in the air. The mouse should be perfect for a public speaker who wants to move around during a speech, without giving up control of his laptop. It would also make a nifty remote for a Linux PVR user, since it has VCR controls and channel and volume buttons. But does it work with Linux?" Bruce Perens
tried it out and says the answer is a qualified Yes.
$ 180.- is very overpriced for a cordless keyboard and mouse, even with this fancy mouse-in-the-air.
While I like the remote and keyboard a lot, there are two major issues for me to be the ultimate wireless combo for my media center:
1. They don't release it in Europe and don't plan to. RF norms are different over here...
2. There are no numbers, which means no keypad onto the remote. Painful if you want to switch from channel 1 to channel 74...
But otherwise, I've seen these at work and they are awsome. You can use the remote/mouse either as a regular optical mouse, or you can press a bice button and you can use it by just moving it in the air. After a 2 min practice, it's very usable.
I'd like one so much......
Write boring code, not shiny code!
> The mouse uses an accelerometer rather than a mouse wheel, and thus has the unique feature that you can make mouse gestures in the air.
"Not recommended for use on airplanes, spacecraft, ships, boats, elevators, or rollercoasters."
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
In other words, one author can't plagarise himself, no matter how hard he may try.
feh. stuff.
Is that a gyration media center remote in your pants, or are you just happy to see me?
If you only tried to read the fscking article, you would have read that the author covered that very question:
"However, all of the Bluetooth remote controls and remote mice available today are Class 3, and only have about 30 feet range"
There you go.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
How often have we seen this:
"And the good news is that a properly-configured Linux system will work with the device. But it took me a while to figure out that my system wasn't configured properly."
And this is BRUCE PERENS for goodness sake! If he can't get it right who can? I realise that he did figure it out but it sounds like it was frustrating and I can imagine how much more frustrating it would be for someone who doesn't understand the system as well as he does. NOTE: I said THE SYSTEM not Linux!
I just had an issue with an old flatbed scanner on WinXP for instance. It works fine on the system it usually stays on but refuses to work on my new laptop or any other system. I'm sure that "my system wasn't configured properly." And if I knew what to change it would work.
On the other hand, I have several remotes including two from http://www.hometheatermaster.com/ which have always worked flawlessly with all kinds of consumer equipment. TVs, Radios, DVD players you name it. They just work. When will PCs catch up? I don't care if it runs MS or Linux or BSD (though open source is prefered) if it just works it will be an improvement. Maybe it's time to try Apple after all?
I'm glad he got it to work but from the quote above I doubt that I could. The plus side of Linux and open source in general is that I could probably find someone to help me out but it's not guaranteed.
Oh well, I guess that scanner thing annoyed me more than I thought! Sorry for the rant.
I don't think, Therefore I'm not.
- with lesser range. See eg this one: http://www.savastore.com/productinfo/product.aspx? catalog_name=Savastore&product_id=10278959&pid=44
I wonder if the soldering fairy is able to retrieve back some of that range though...
There is OS X software called Sailing Clicker. It allows you to use your phone to activate applescripts. With it you can control, a lot of the OS X software out there. iTunes, Keynote, etc.
note no link provided because I am lazy and google is easy.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
The 'Gyration' products, oddly enough, use a gyroscope for motion encoding rather than a plain-old Piezo or otherwise accelerometer.
I suppose you could argue the toss that its a gyroscope encoder behaving as an accelerometer - oh nevermind
Of course, the 2-axis gyroscopes provided in most of the Gyration gear are the cause of the high-price. While Piezo accelerometers can be picked up for mere pennies, they don't have the same latency / performance / accuracy of a gyroscope.
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
The server seems to be staying up, click the original rather than the mirror.
Bruce Perens.
Hang on, he got the bloody thing working in Linux. The company don't market this towards Linux, they don't supply drivers, he now has information available for other Linux users who want to use this. This is true linux spirit and not selling out at all.
From the looks of the review, he wasn't sent this item by the company, he went out and got something which looks cool.
I've seen them myself, and the only thing preventing me from getting one was cost.
tbh as well, I don't mind if people "sellout", we are all trying to make ourselves and our families lives better, and money does that job a lot easier.
Get what you can when you can, cos you don't know what tomorrow will bring.
liqbase
Look here.
;). Just plug the reciever into a USB port, plonk it in plain view, get the keyboard and mice talking to each other by pushing a few buttons and you're off.
We use these all the time at work (a UK high school) for use with the interactive whiteboards. Very cool devices, good range, the 3D use takes a bit of getting used too and works well - but the teachers can always use the pens on the whiteboard.
The mice charge up in a cradle and the keyboards take 4xAAA (or AA?) batteries that last for months.
Dead easy to setup too... No drivers needed so I'm pretty sure Linux support should work (haven't had a chance to sneak a set off-site yet and try it
£80 for keyboard+mouse from Dabs. Nice piece of kit, no doubt about it.
Do you think that this would work with the logitech cordless duo if it is HID compliant?
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There are many more fancy input devices working with Linux available, e.g. the Twiddler a tiny wrist keyboard made by Handykey.com, different Linux applications featuring your cell phone as a remote control and the WireLess NoteBook Presenter made by Targus; to name just a few. BTW: The WireLess NoteBook Presenter doesn't feature mouse gestures in the air, you have to provide mouse events by pushing a mouse button, but it works with Linux out of the box and seems much cheaper.
The cheap all-in-ones don't work either. I have a VCR and DVD players There is a complete lack of standardization among CE devices. That is why there are error prone "learn" modes, and lookup tables for all the different brands. This is exactly the same picture as when DOS games had to include drivers for every brand of video card, an n-squared number of drivers results, all of them poor.
There is a complete lack of standardization among CE user interfaces. Try programming VCRS of ten brands, picture in picture modes, or setting the time. Why is there no similarity in the menu structures? How about my favourite: DVD menus. Talk about a utter misfeature, "play" varies in function depending on the disk in question, and all the options are artful pictograms, so there is no universal way to do anything with them. Quick. Pick a non-default language soundtrack on ten DVD's. You'll do it ten different ways, all with annoying delays for artful transitions, which are exceedingly clever the fist three times you see them, but just excrutiatingly tiresome thereafter. Being creative with user interfaces is a bad thing.
It is just bunkum to say that CE devices work better. Things that are Universally lacking:
Sure, expensive systems can do all this, but they do it with brute force, by overcoming all the incompatibilities with a lot of complexity, or by going proprietary (use brand X.)
CE devices are at least a decade behind computers in standardization. As much more powerful computers are embedded in CE devices and the cost of standardization drops to nearly nil, we will see them adopt standards, like Wifi, TCP/IP, HTTP, and some CE dialect of XML. It cannot be a huge new effort because the profit margins are so slim, so it has to leverage what is already out there, when it becomes cost effective to do so. Unfortunately, none of the CE vendors have any reason to invest in such standards, such a thing would be a good selling point if it could be branded and get a critical mass of support for it to be valuable in consumers' eyes, but getting the critical mass is a big hurdle.
Tivo style processors are plenty powerful enough and probably already in today's HD TV's. In the next couple of years, the processing power will be cheap enough to support those standards.
Once that happens, UI's will be set by standards, shaped by client preferences, and not by random choices of individual hackers in hundreds of different companies. Stuff will be far more usable, and easier to program via computer too.
I don't know, I've had this one http://www.gyration.com/ultragt-compact.htm for nearly two years. I love the compact keyboard as it works very well for my very short and stubby fingers. However, I remember buying and thinking "Hmmm. how hard will this be to make work". I plugged in the usb receiver, rebooted and added USB HID to my X configuration and it worked immediately.
Maybe SuSE is just better? (Figured I would get an ad in on an ad)
Btw, I LOVE mine.
what the fuck? which question of mine does that answer please?
The OS X Shareware you mentioned, which allows Bluetooth-Phones to remotley control your Mac is correctly spelled: Salling Clicker. That said, there's also a GPL'd one available. It's called Romeo http://www.irowan.com/romeo/ and I am happily controlling VLC/Mplayer from my armchair.
You said: "what you want is a small wireless/bluetooth control with just forward/back buttons and built-in laser pointer. anyone know of something like this?"
This question is answered in the article, in that there are no bluetooth remote control or mouse that works for that range, hence an added value intrinsic to this product.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
I've been using their full size keyboard and mouse with Fedora for a year. They're just USB devices to Linux. They reduce clutter and are great for conference rooms because they're easy to pass around between speakers. Make sure you have plenty of batteries though.
Consequences ensue.
The ultra is just fine. If you need a full remote, get a nice all-in-one on the side, it's still cheaper than the Media Center package and will work better. I use mine with a Fedora Core 3 system running MythTV and I had to do absolutely zero to get it to work perfectly right out of the box.
Ya, I actually agree. Kind of.
As I mentioned I think I was just blowing off some steam above and I probably just got trapped in DLL hell for a while there.
Most of what you say is true. Every programmer I know, myself included, has at least had the thought "why can't I get in there and redesign that my self." The GPL, Linux and open source is giving us that opportunity. And about time. Most companies have not found good ways to use this "new way" but it is starting to happen anyway. See the excitement/free publicity generated by several Linux based cable routers for example. Once a peice of hardware becomes 'hacked' and is declared hackable all kinds of new features, interfaces and uses are found. Why the hardware companies are not pursuing this is beyond me.
When I was looking for my own all-in-one remote I started to wonder why the major companies don't at least publish the remote codes on line. Then it occured to me that they would have to admit that this TV is just like that cheaper one but with our name on it. At least that's how it would look to the consumer. Or that's what the corp. execs are afraid might happen.
I long for the day when Linux (or it's equivalent (BSD?)) is on everything. I want the open source model to take over (Hey JVC\RCA\SONY\SAMSUNG, why worry about keeping your interface code secret. You are trying to sell HARDWARE not software!) At the very least why not have a hackable layer on top of the proprietary stuff? Or maybe something like http://www.openfirmware.org/ so if I really want too I can tell my TV to always return the volume to a rational level when I trun it on. (Stupid TV, can't change the volume or channel until it is all the way on! Two seconds of too loud and I hope I don't wake the wife! Everytime!)
On the other hand "UI's will be set by standards, shaped by client preferences, and not by random choices of individual hackers in hundreds of different companies." strikes me as being a pipe dream. Can you think of ANY product that meets this ideal? My parents had an RCA VCR in the early 80s (VCRs were newish then) which had a beautiful interface for recording shows. It worked great and even my mom could use it. I have never seen one since that came close to matching it. Even on other RCA stuff. Why? I wish I knew.
I don't think, Therefore I'm not.
30 feet is fine. I stand by my opinion that this is a bad product for presentations.
Ahhh, here we go. Because you said "what you want is ...", but now you say "I stand by my opinion"
Everyone is entitled to its own opinion. However, if you push it on everyone else, it becomes their problem as well. I can see plenty of scenarios where one might need a longer distance. And remember this is a theoretical "perfect condition" distance. If you have curtains, a wall or anything in between you and the receptor, this number starts do decrease a bit and 30 feet might fall short on more than one situation.
Anyways, thanks for your insight.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
...found that most times I needed the keyboard nearby, too. With my home media computer in the living room, a high WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) was a must, and she thought the mouse was usable, even kinda "neat."
However, it uses NiMH batteries, and discharges itself almost every other day, so must be re-cradled nightly to avoid going kaput in the middle of the evening. Also, my experience was that the range of the keyboard was as advertised, but the mouse range was lacking.
We settled, instead, for the Versapoint RF keyboard, which has a touchpoint mouse, no third button, no media keys, but works as advertised and the batteries have lasted 6+ months now without needing replacement. That's because it doesn't need to keep "seeking" for a surface across which it is being dragged, and it takes much less smarts to figure out where it's being pointed/nudged.
The Gyration has a higher geek factor, but is more annoying on a daily basis.
The Versapoint is less sexy, but more utilitarian as a living room device.
even if Olivetti got there first with their ultrasound and radio pointing devices. (From the same English stable as VNC)
I have a ATI Remote Wonder and I love this thing. It also works with Linux as well as Windows and Mac OS X.
http://remotew.free.fr/linux_en.htm
Gorkman
For what it's worth, holding the two buttons on the bottom of the mouse down for two seconds turns the mouse off until they're pressed again. Please see the current poll. ;)
This rating is Unfair ( ) ( ) Fair (*) Funny
Sigh... If only. Modding would be so much more fun.
It might. The only way to tell if it's really HID compliant enough is to test it.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
I have one as well, but not this particular model.. and it doesn't look like a remote control.. it looks like an actual mouse.. but it can ergonomically fit in your hand when you use it gyroscopically.. and when you set it down on a nice flat surface, it works just like a regular optical mouse..
i love it.. its fun getting use to using the mouse the gyroscopic way.. something different.. cool feel.. and ya don't need a surface.. if your arm gets tired, put the bitch on the table and its all good.. can't go wrong with these guys.. cept i hope the price goes down soon..
- Hi I'm Linus Torvalds and I pronounce Linux, Lih-nix..
Anything works with Linux, as long as you have drivers for it. Therein lies the problem....
...Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror, and you would not have been informed.
I don't see what Bruce did as selling out, but I do have a problem with the way Will smith sold out in I, Robot....
Actio personalis moritur cum persona. (Dead men don't sue)
I bought the 25ft mouse/keyboard model 2 years ago, and it still works as advertised. Send it back, dude, don't be bitter. They'll treat you well.
No, this isn't an ad, unlike the "story" - I just like what I bought.
It is a gyro you don't move it up and down.
You twist your hand left and right, up and down (see the little animated GIF on the site - http://www.gyration.com/images/motion2.gif).
Strangly enough it is intuitive and it feels natural - I think they are tres cool (I want one - but damn thats expensive - especially in NZ's funky banana republic play-money!).
Happy moony
That doesn't make any sense. I just looked at my layout. It's a Frensh layout keyboard!!
Why bother making a french layout if your not going to sell in france.
No, but, for at least the basic functions, cars seemed to have converged nicely in the last ten to fifteen years. Cars have the steering wheel in the same place, and one generally has to be in a prescribed seat to drive them. I cannot recall ever seeing the clutch or break pedals on the right of the accellerator. The speedometer seems to always be in roughly the same place, and even the other gauges, in the last few years have gotten closer to standardized. There are two alternate choices for the shift lever, but gone are the days when it was above the driver (citroen), or out of the dash (renault 4).
Companies still exercise plenty of product differentiation, but not at the cost of rendering every vehicle annoyingly, randomly, unique. With cars there is the safety issue, which drives (sorry :-) a lot of these issues. The same things apply to CE in terms of increasing ease of use, they just are not that important.