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Coast Guard to Track Ships Using Buoys

nomrniceguy writes "The Coast Guard plans to use dozens of buoys off the U.S. coast to extend the reach of a security system that monitors large vessels heading in and out of ports. The buoys are intended to extend the network's reach -- the Guard now receives the automated data only when a vessel is within about 25 miles of a port. The floating transmitters will relay the information from hundreds of miles off shore, from the middle of Lake Superior and off coastlines from Alaska to Maine."

262 comments

  1. Using bouys? by BluhDeBluh · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Isn't there laws against that?

    1. Re:Using bouys? by wdd1040 · · Score: 1

      The coast guard is in charge of the buoys. They can use them as they see fit.

      --
      wdd
    2. Re:Using bouys? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      bouys are OK - boys are not

    3. Re:Using bouys? by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Funny

      Let's just float CowbuoyNeal and see what he detects...

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    4. Re:Using bouys? by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Funny

      CowbuoyNeal is a float? Somehow I'd always pictured him as a char...

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    5. Re:Using bouys? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      If there's laws against that, then the sensors in the street that turn the light green for you when there's no cross traffic would be illegal too, dumbass.

    6. Re:Using bouys? by mikeage · · Score: 1

      The real question is if he's a real or not.

      --
      -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
  2. In related news, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Slashdot "editor" michael uses binoculars to track boys.

    1. Re:In related news, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that's Arthur C. Clarke. [cough] Allegedly.

    2. Re:In related news, by TaGirl_Keri · · Score: 0

      heh, the Village People will be pleased

      --
      My fav units are dead Mavs
  3. Wait for it.... by cr0y · · Score: 1

    Good to hear, This may be one use of technology that I am actually happy to hear about.

    It doesn't infringe on anyones privacy

    It doesn't help fund lawsuits against children

    It isn't a shitty use of the DMCA.

    Good job U.S.A

    --

    ItWasFree.com - Take the mystery
    1. Re:Wait for it.... by Malc · · Score: 1

      Except the fact that this is in international waters...

    2. Re:Wait for it.... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That means nothing. Navies and paramilitary forces all over the world patrol well outside thier tradiational 3 and 12 mile limits, and they have for hundreds of years.

      The Russians fly Tu-95 and Tu-142 Bears, the Chinese fly thier knock-off of the Badger, we fly the P-3 Orion, the Brits fly Canberra and Nimrod's. Trickles down to to the smallest nations with patrol aircraft.

      For decades NATO had a series of active and passive sensor networks across the GIUK (Greenland-Iceland-United Kingdom) gap to monitor Soviet shipping. There were similar arrays from Alaska to northern Japan.

    3. Re:Wait for it.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the story wasn't posted by Roland!

    4. Re:Wait for it.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so fucking what? they buoys are already there being used for other purposes. This isn't any different than putting a spy sat in orbit. That's considered to be an international area too, but it doesn't stop anyone anyone from doing it. They could just as easily park a few cutters out there to observe traffice, but this is more cost effective. I would guess that Japan and Europe have similar systems for the exact same purpose. Not having them would be like having an airport w/o air traffic controllers.

    5. Re:Wait for it.... by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Not a real issue. radar, sonar, even humans are allowed to look past boarders. Would you like it if it was illegal for ATC to track the airliner you are on once it crossed the 12 mile limit?

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    6. Re:Wait for it.... by arivanov · · Score: 3, Interesting

      1.The UN convention allows 200 miles EEZ. You are allowed to use some measures to enforce your rights within that if you have claimed that you will enforce the EEZ anyway. That is different from territorial waters.

      2. Planning an attack on a coastal target by a vessel that is not registered to a country with which you are in a state of war can be easily fit into the definition of piracy without stretching it. That is sufficient grounds for any navy ship to request a stop and search of any civilian vessel regardless of either ship country of registration and the civilian vessel must comply even if outside territorial waters. Basically a suspected pirate (not a suspected terrorist) is a fair game anywhere anytime. The legal basis for this predates the UN (it goes back into the 19th century).

      3. If they only follow the traffic they can put it even in international waters. In fact it becomes illegal only if it is in another country EEZ.

      4. This is the first sane thing the US has done to do something about its own security. It is infinitely easier to put a Grad (or higher class) launcher on a ship and level a significant portion of Manhattan compared to hijacking a plane, doing a dirty bomb or any other lunatic plot.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    7. Re:Wait for it.... by budgenator · · Score: 2, Informative

      My understanding is countries have a 200Mi. zone of economic interest, and the system has a 100Mi zone.
      Also all comercial aircraft are required to file a flight plan, and have transponders that integrate both into Air-Traffic control radars and military IFF, Interegator Friend or Foe, systems and nobody gets hissy over that..
      I used to live right on the St Lawerence sea way ( 100ft South of the navigation light at the enterence to the St.Clair River from Lake Huron), and the rivers pilots were stationed 50 Ft. from my house and their radio trafic with river trafic control sounded almost identical to air control. When your pushing ships ranging in beam from 750 ft sea goer's to 1250 ft lakers you don't screw arround. A 100,000 tones of ship don't turn or stop on a dime and they don't share the same space any more than an a Airliner will so with both timing is critical.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    8. Re:Wait for it.... by Alien+Being · · Score: 2, Funny

      "When your pushing ships ranging in beam from 750 ft sea goer's to 1250 ft lakers you..."

      No wonder it's so hard to navigate, they're going sideways.

    9. Re:Wait for it.... by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Opps, but I have seen them side-ways, lose engines in that current and your kung-fu gets real weak real fast. One frieghter, going down-bound tried to save some money and the captain was taking her down with out a river pilot one foggy morning, anyways he miss judged the first turn and follwed the navigation light into a glancing blow to the seawall taking out a $1/4 million worth and the concusion broke two of my windows. I was eating breakfast and all I could see out my window was fog and the ship's hull.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  4. And other than make somebody rich... by Winkhorst · · Score: 1

    What's the point of this? The folks they're afraid of either won't have the proper tracking equipment or they'll tell the Guard they're hauling bananas.

    --
    "Is this Winkhorst a nova criminal?" "No just a technical sergeant wanted for interrogation."
    1. Re:And other than make somebody rich... by civman2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not if the coast guard is using some sort of active detection system like radar. Plus the point is to spot the ships before they get close. This way we have 100 miles to intercept them instead of 25. Bananas or no, we'll know about it sooner.

    2. Re:And other than make somebody rich... by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Consider that this telemetry (or the lack of it) will be compared to all sorts of other data: expected traffic, freight schedules, communications from known friendlies... it contributes to larger pattern/abberation detection capacity.

      And, as another poster indicates, radar and other surveilance will be looking, too. And ships seen out at those distances without the transponders will stick out like a sore thumb, and invite immediate (and armed) visits from the Coasties.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    3. Re:And other than make somebody rich... by AthenianGadfly · · Score: 1

      It could make it more difficult to approach without setting off red flags. If a large ship comes in saying they're transporting bananas, but there are no cargo ships scheduled to be carrying bananas in the area at that time, it will hopefully set off some alarms or the like. This is assuming of course that the Coast Guard is organized enough to have some sort of centralized database of ships' schedules cargos and other relevant data.

      This would mean that someone would have to be very good at falsifying the data, or they would have to hijack an existing ship. Not impossible by any means, but at least it would mean that not just anyone could come steaming up - it's not foolproof, but it would add another layer of difficulty.

  5. What happens when our enemies... by Jaidon · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...train flocks of seagulls to crap all over the transmitters?

    1. Re:What happens when our enemies... by BradleyUffner · · Score: 5, Funny
      "...train flocks of seagulls to crap all over the transmitters?"

      Ground to Seagull Missiles.
    2. Re:What happens when our enemies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The band or the birds?

    3. Re:What happens when our enemies... by Jaidon · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well since both produce the same thing...I guess I really doesn't matter.

    4. Re:What happens when our enemies... by goon+america · · Score: 1

      I'm sure Flock of Seagulls doesn't have any more pressing engagements...

    5. Re:What happens when our enemies... by Create+an+Account · · Score: 1

      Our current administration responds with typical aplomb. Citing the use of Weapons of Mass Defecation, the Dept of Homeland Security responds with large quantities of Alka Seltzer, probably administered by thousands of H1B visa holders and former Enron employees. Cheney hails Bush for his brilliantly combined Defense/Economic package, sewing up the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination. I can hear it now: "Cheney's great in 2-K-8!" I think I just scared myself.

    6. Re:What happens when our enemies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      ...train flocks of seagulls to crap all over the transmitters?

      So, after a hit in the 80's, a comeback effort in the 90's, and various appearances on "where are they now" shows, this is what the band is forced to do to get by?

    7. Re:What happens when our enemies... by mjpaci · · Score: 1

      You run. You run so far away.

    8. Re:What happens when our enemies... by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1
      Please, please, please God, let me have some GSMs when that happens...

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    9. Re:What happens when our enemies... by XorNand · · Score: 1
      --
      Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
    10. Re:What happens when our enemies... by Yea-but... · · Score: 1

      It would be funny if only there was something funny about seagull crap on buoys at sea. Next thing we'll hear is that they are rusty, have barnacles growing on them and are always wet on the under side. Besides, the electronics are on the inside and only the antenna's are exposed.

    11. Re:What happens when our enemies... by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Hey, my phone has a GSM...

      Just one step closer, and *foom!*

    12. Re:What happens when our enemies... by sconeu · · Score: 1

      The buoys will try to date the gulls! The gulls, of course, will immediately call the buoys nerds and crap all over them.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    13. Re:What happens when our enemies... by bob+beta · · Score: 1

      Considering they were a 'current' band when I was buying their albums on the LP format in 1982, you're probably correct.

    14. Re:What happens when our enemies... by sulli · · Score: 1

      It will be Buoys vs. Gulls!

      --

      sulli
      RTFJ.
    15. Re:What happens when our enemies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On a more serious note... The crap would be washed off with a few good dunkings that most buoys are exposed to during storms.

      And antennia's are not the only items exposed. A standard moored buoy includes sensors for air temp, water temp, wind speed and direction, air pressure, etc. Mose of the sensors are mounted on the frame.
      The drifing buoy's normally only sense temperatures.

      One question though... Now are they going to communicate? Most buoys transmit using the GOES system once an hour, with the high-bandwidth transmitters going at around 300 to 1200 baud with about 200 chars of data.

  6. What's The News Here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I love michael's idiotic sarcasm.

    What exactly is so surprising about this? They're called the US Coast Guard!!! There job is to protect the US coastlines. You should be applauding them for actually doing the job instead of creating more bureaucracy in defending the homeland.

    It seems slashdot has turned into some anarchist hangout where you guys wish the authorities have no tools to do their job right.

    1. Re:What's The News Here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      where you guys wish the authorities have no tools to do their job right.

      Nah, we just wish that they had no tools to do their jobs wrong. Or that they would quit spending money on doing the wrong things.

      So tell me, what are the terrorists going to do, send a fleet of warships over here? We'd pick that up on satellite before they even passed one of these buoys. Oh, I know! Some Iraqi guy they were raping with a broomstick told them that they were planning on flying boats into buildings! Have to act on those credible sources and raise the terror level to paisley! How silly can I be? We all know that the terrorists dropped a spawn point 26 miles off the coast of Florida and they're popping out of hyperspace in droves!

      So, what exactly is this expenditure of my money going to do for me? Make me safer from terrorists? Foreign countries invading America? Some senator's porkbarrel re-election campaign?

      I feel safer already too.

    2. Re:What's The News Here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the fuck are you talking about?

    3. Re:What's The News Here by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      Back when I was in Uncle Sam's Navy, it was commonly said that you had to be at least six feet tall to join the Coast Guard; that way, if your ship sank, you could wade ashore. Later, after I left the Navy, I told a Coastie officer about it; he'd never heard it before and found it quite funny. I'm glad to see they're going farther out now, and need more tracking devices to do their job. I hope it's funded properly and implemented. Jokes aside, their work is important, hard and sometimes dangerous. Let's give them what they need to things even better.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    4. Re:What's The News Here by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      So tell me, what are the terrorists going to do, send a fleet of warships over here?

      Well, let's see...

      They can smuggle nukes in in a small boat. (Even H-bombs are pretty small these days. Have to fit on a missile after all. A-bombs are a tad bigger than a grapefruit.) Ditto biological, chemical, or radiological weapons, or even significant amounts of explosives.

      Landing them to use elsewhere isn't really necessary. Most of the "blue" pouplation is concentrated in coastal cities that grew up around seaports. A terrorist could just motor into the harbor among all the other shipping (preferably when there's an onshore wind) and set something off to do damage to the population and economic infrastructure that would make the 9/11 attack look like a pinprick.

      They can use a boat bomb to blow up shipping. One little motorboat put a big hole in the side of a major naval vessel under Clinton's watch. (It didn't sink mainly because warships are designed to survive having holes punched in them. Commercial ships generally are not - and even when they are, not to the same extent.) Imagine one going off next to a cargo ship - or worse, next to a tanker - in the narrow channel leading into a major port. Even if the destruction of the ship doesn't cause its cargo to damage the city and its population, sinking a ship there could easily take the port out of operation for a year or more, costing trillions and producing an economic recession.

      They can smuggle in terrorists, too. Even a small boat can hold enough to pull off a whole series of attacks. If the US ever gets decent control over the southern border you don't want the coastline to be the next weakest link.

      Of course defending the coastline border and coastal cities and population against terrorists is just part of the Coast Guard's job. (Aiding distressed mariners is among their tasks, just for starters.) The bouys will help some of their other work, too.

      But I think it's pretty clear that terrorists coming to/across the seaward borders are a real threat and that improvements in ship tracking near the coast will help defend against them.

      "If it stops the destruction of even one city..." B-)

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    5. Re:What's The News Here by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "Even H-bombs are pretty small these days. "

      if they had access to that technology, 9/11 would have been a lot more radioactive.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    6. Re:What's The News Here by a+whoabot · · Score: 1

      No one yet has had the nerve to set off a nuclear device after now that their destructive force has been fully demonstrated. As violent as the terrorists are, they're not completely unthinking people(no matter how much rhetoric one can throw around). Even they may quite possibly deem the idea of creating a radioactive wasteland a bad idea.

    7. Re:What's The News Here by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      As violent as the terrorists are, they're not completely unthinking people(no matter how much rhetoric one can throw around). Even they may quite possibly deem the idea of creating a radioactive wasteland a bad idea.

      A close frend of mine who happens to be a Muslum has characterized the terrorists as "murderous fruitcakes".

      Islam explicitly forbids several things that, had they been paying attention to any one of, would have made the 9/11 attacks totally out of the question (and the terrorist bombings in the Middle East ditto). Using fire as a weapon of war and attacking innocent bystanders, just to name two.

      Yes they're thinking. But they're using their thought processes to convince themselves that their tactics are permitted and even mandated. They're making political attacks and using religious arguments to justify them.

      And they're no more worried about whether they render significant sections of "The Great Satan"'s cities and land area a wasteland than they were about the couple thousand Muslums they killed when the Twin Towers burned and fell. Their though processes are NOT driven by the concerns and goals you and I have.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  7. What's the point? by mOoZik · · Score: 1

    There's still a large window when tracking 25 miles out, almost an hour. Are they doing this so "terrorists" do not "attack" with large boats? Bad waste of money.

    1. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      here's a thought - what if 9/11 had been an oil tanker run into the statue of liberty and exloded? or the docks close to the financial district?

    2. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      since you're a typical slashdotter that doesn't read the story and spews drivel anyway, here's a clue: this was planned by the USCG long before 9/11/01. It just sped up the implemenation time table.

  8. Coast Guard to Track Ships Using [young] Boys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that was what i thought it said when i first read it...yuck! subliminal freudians..goatse..ew

    1. Re:Coast Guard to Track Ships Using [young] Boys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mod parent up! rofl

  9. Why new buoys? by Roland+Piquepaille · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was under the impression that the US had spent billions of dollars seeding the north atlantic ocean with passive buoys and magnetic anomaly detectors (MAD) as a net to detect and triangulate soviet subs. This is cold war stuff that could perfectly be reused to counter new threats from terrorism, since it's been there and working for decades and, presumably, still in operation. So why deploy new ones?

    1. Re:Why new buoys? by wdd1040 · · Score: 1

      The buoys are already existing... What's not to say this is just a way for them to publicly disclose that they're using these buoys for that?

      --
      wdd
    2. Re:Why new buoys? by mboverload · · Score: 0

      Because the US can't stand reusing anything, we have to buy the latest and greatest, even if we already have somehting that can do it cheaper.

    3. Re:Why new buoys? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This entire thread, from the top poster on down, is one huge troll. The top poster is not the blogger 'Roland Piquepaille', but a troll account. Most of the responses are trolls. It's a good bet that most replies are being posted by the same guy switching accounts. Gee, aren't trolls fun?

      Hey troll, is this how you're spending your New Years Day? Isn't that pretty lame? Why aren't you out having fun, instead?

    4. Re:Why new buoys? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Roland, don't you have better things to do than whore Slashdot and try to defend your sad reputation when people on Slashdot bring the truth to light?

    5. Re:Why new buoys? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why aren't you out having fun, instead?

      Why aren't you, Roland?

      Hypocrite.

    6. Re:Why new buoys? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 4, Informative
      The currently installed SOSUS system does indeed track large magnetic and acoustic objects out in the Atlantic an elsewhere. However....this is sometihng different.

      A passing ship will report to the buoy 'This is me'. That ID can be looked up in a database, of where it came from, who owns it, and what it (supposedly) carries. These new buoys extend that ID farther out.

      As far as reusing the SOSUS buoys, a) what makes you think they are not still useful in their original role? and b) they are generally on the ocean floor to track subs. Not really useful for surface ships.

    7. Re:Why new buoys? by Daniel+Ellard · · Score: 3, Informative
      The SOSUS and other arrays are used to track subs. Those subs are attempting to hide in the trackless depths of the oceans, not approach major ports. It's not generally a good tactic to try to hide in shallow, regularly patrolled waters where there are lots of other vessels...

      So what this new array does is fill in some of the gaps.

      --
      Disclaimer: I work for a company, but I don't speak for them.
    8. Re:Why new buoys? by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Interesting

      why deploy new ones?

      Submerged detection equipment can't relay RF transponder codes - which is the whole point of this system. The SOSUS gear, though, is vital in helping the coastal defense folks in correlating the RF signatures and radar returns with expected/presented ship id info.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    9. Re:Why new buoys? by Yea-but... · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not NEW buoys... Read the damn article. The systems in question are being installed on existing buoys. And SOSUS is not buoys, is still used, can and does track anything that puts sound in water (subs, ships, whales, etc.). The buoys in question, for the most part, are not sonar-buoys, but may have hydrophones. The USCG is more concerned with location of the existing buoys (useful for their purposes) and if they are capable of hosting the additional equipment. The buoys are floating platforms (some very large) that house weather stations, navigation equipment and so on. The system in the origianl article is more like a beacon IFF (Information Friend or Foe) like you might find on a radar. It doesn't track. It interrogates (asks the system on the ship to report it's information) and then forwards that information.

    10. Re:Why new buoys? by kacymartin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      RTFA: The weather service has agreed to let the Coast Guard add transmitters to about 70 buoys by 2007 They arent deploying NEW buoys they are only adding additional equipment to existing buoys.

      --
      -Kacy
  10. Re:Large Vessels by Timesprout · · Score: 1

    The empty one inside your confused head.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
  11. help for you, sir! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Yeah, try Kuro5hin! It's this cool site filled with smart people discussing stuff. And no trolls, either! One day hanging out there and you'll throw in the /. towel for good! Sshhhh... keep it a secret, ok bud?

    1. Re:help for you, sir! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And no trolls, either!

      LOL

  12. Hey Roland, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    how about you steal some other people's materials regarding the topic, package it all up, slap your name on it and put it on your "website"? You know, your usual routine.

    1. Re:Hey Roland, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not the real Roland. But, I agree with you, RR smells.

    2. Re:Hey Roland, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any proof that it isn't? Granted any troll can register a name not already taken, but what makes you think that isn't him?

    3. Re:Hey Roland, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but I don't think he's dumb enough to use his own name to troll. Oh well, still doesn't change the fact that he's a blatant spammer.

  13. How does this help security? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article:

    "To legally enter a U.S. port, each vessel must be equipped with a machine that automatically radios information -- its cargo, crew list, recent ports of call -- to the Coast Guard."

    In other words, this system only works if the ship is equipped with a special transmitter. Great security.

    1. Re:How does this help security? by psetzer · · Score: 1

      Well, going in without a transmitter will get lots of very agitated people going after you. Keep it up and you might get anything from a coastguard boarding party to a friggin' antiship missile. (The US military is infamous for being trigger happy, and I'm sure that the USCG will do us proud in that regard.) In fifty words or less, don't buck the system unless you have a deathwish or enjoy really long prison terms.

      --
      "Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is living in a state of sin." -- John von Neumann
    2. Re:How does this help security? by techno-vampire · · Score: 2, Informative

      I gather you didn't bother to read the quote before pasting it in. It starts off with, "To legally enter a U.S. port..." That means that once this is in place, ships without those transmitters won't be allowed to enter U.S. ports. I presume that any ship without the transmitter in working order will be turned away.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    3. Re:How does this help security? by techno-vampire · · Score: 1
      (The US military is infamous for being trigger happy, and I'm sure that the USCG will do us proud in that regard.)

      Part of the Coast Guard's job is stopping smugglers. Any ship coming in without the transponder is a possible smuggler, and they're going to get stopped. If they don't stop, the Coast Guard is allowed to open fire if needed. That's just doing their job. If you don't like it, try getting their rules of engagement changed. You won't succeed, but have fun trying if you feel that strongly about it.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    4. Re:How does this help security? by Oligonicella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "The US military is infamous for being trigger happy..."

      No... The U.S. military is the most famous for being the most maligned by those who would rather appease and surrender. Just because they won't politely step out of the way of those who want to commit mass murder (Bosnia, Africa) like the blue-hats do, doesn't make them trigger happy. It makes them responsible when doing their job.

      Nice try at your maligning attempt, though.

    5. Re:How does this help security? by dotmax · · Score: 1
      The US military is infamous for being trigger happy
      Go. Fuck. Yourself. .max
    6. Re:How does this help security? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The US airforce has dropped a few bombs on friendlies during their military compains...

      example a Canadian training exercise in Afghanistan in April 2002. BBC, CNN

      US troops in Dec 2001

      Children in Dec 2003

  14. National Data Buoy Center by thedogcow · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is great. I use buoy data all the time as it provides sea surface temperatures/ dewpoint information and is useful in meteorology.
    This information can be found here

    --
    Yes! I listen to NYC Speedcore and do math at 3AM. I suggest you try it too.
    1. Re:National Data Buoy Center by PornMaster · · Score: 1

      Are you the one keeping an eye out for The Day After Tomorrow?

  15. Shipping is a very attractive target by gone.fishing · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Shipping (especially "supertankers" is a very attractive target for terrorists. The system is largely designed to protect the ships and their ports of call. It is an expensive proposition to install these bouys but it is far cheaper than what we did to protect shipping before. In WWII we used naval escorts to protect civilian shipping as it approached our ports. In today's money this would be prohibitivly expensive.

    All it takes is a single terrorist with a small plane or a small boat laden with explosives. The USS Cole disaster would be a minor inconvenience in comparison to the economic and environmental disaster caused by a supertanker being blown apart in or near a U.S. port.

    If the attack were cooridinated and a number of US ports were attacked in this manner at the same time, the consiquences to the American economy would be disasterous. It could make the importation of oil grind to a halt for long enough to cause oil prices to sky-rocket and our economy to suffer.

    1. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      Note: The threat of blowing up an oil tanker has nothing to do with large amount of oil exploding - crude oil isn't renowned for going boom. The problem would arise with the fact that nothing could move in or out due to contamination, water supplies would get screwed (if they're taken from the sea) etc etc.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    2. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most of the oil the US imports is from Canada and Mexico, so the existing pipelines wouldn't be affected. having the dockworkers strike is a more likely problem.

    3. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by CrackedButter · · Score: 1, Flamebait


      If this... if that.... The government certainly has you singing to their tune with the war on terror. Sigh.
      If terrorists were to attack, do you not think they would of done it by now? They'll certainly do it now, now that safeguards are in place. Besides, didn't the US remove the big terrorist powerhouse that was Iraq?
      Attacking a Supertanker would incur the wrath of other nations and private enterprises, why get them involved now, why give the US real allies which makes your life harder. Also if you had kept up to date on your Michael Moore, you would know the connections between the US government, the oil barons and the Bin Laden family...
      Oh, wait. I can hear a knock at the door. It's the feds, says I've been badmouthing the Commander in Chief.

    4. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1, Troll
      If this... if that.... The government certainly has you singing to their tune with the war on terror. Si

      Naa...we don't need better ID on airline passengers. Every hijacking has just resulted in landing somewhere, so we can storm the plane, and shoot or arrest them.
      Naa...we don't need better security inspections on passengers getting on a plane. No one would ever think of putting explosives in his shoes.
      Naa...we don't better security around public buildings. No one would ever think of blowing one of those up.

      If terrorists were to attack, do you not think they would of done it by now?

      They have. The Coast Guard, etc. is just trying to prevent the next one.

    5. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by t_allardyce · · Score: 1

      Besides, didn't the US remove the big terrorist powerhouse that was Iraq?

      Actually terrorism came to Iraq after the US got there, but the best thing about the 'War on Terror' is that terrorists will always be around, just like pick-pockets and lying politicians, so we must always pump more money into security. Damn I need to get a job designing these bouys or something, gotta cash in! On the other hand, planes have transponders and any entering a country that don't, usually get a welcome from the air-force its just common sense that you track things around your borders.

      --
      This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    6. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by CrackedButter · · Score: 1


      You are right, we don't need better ID, not when the evil terrorists adhere to the current ID system without even trying to circumvent it, what you need is better proof checking.
      Inspecting the passengers, yeah, because it'll only be them, not any of the staff, there're angels.
      Security can't stop everything, it only limits the stupid people, not the determined ones.

    7. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1
      ...what you need is better proof checking.

      And if the INS had been able to crosscheck with the FBI, CIA, and state DMV's, those 19 guys might have been found out earlier.

      Inspecting the passengers, yeah, because it'll only be them, not any of the staff, there're angels.

      Yes, of COURSE they're not checking the staff any closer. They are concentrating only on passengers. Right.

      Security can't stop everything, it only limits the stupid people, not the determined ones

      Exactly right. We have to be lucky every time, they only have to be lucky once.

      But doing nothing lowers the bar on how lucky and determined they have to be.

    8. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by CrackedButter · · Score: 1


      What if Bush had read those security warnings a month before 9/11, that might of helped?
      You'd be surprised, this was only proved otherwise when an undercover journalist (in the UK) managed to get a job as a simple cleaner and within a week plant a dummy bomb onboard a plane.

    9. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1
      And if Clinton had followed up those same security warnings?
      Why is it always a failing on the part of Bush? It's not like the planning for this started only after Bush got elected. And its not like nothing ever happened before Bush got elected.

      Can it be done? Sure. Various people have proven that the security system has holes in it. The trick is to make it as hard as possible, without stepping on too many toes. The other trick is defining the number of toes to be stepped on.

    10. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by CrackedButter · · Score: 1

      How can Clinton follow up on a security warning when he wasn't in office? It falls on Bush this time because he was given the information in August 2001. What is Clinton going to do?

    11. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by CrackedButter · · Score: 1

      Btw, you are right on the second part.

    12. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1
      And Aug 2001 was the very first time that any warnings about OBL and AQ had been presented to the president (whomever he was at the time)? No.

      And what exactly was the presentation to Pres Bush in Aug 2001? Some group is planning on hijacking some aircraft on a particular date and flying them into buildings? Doubtful. More along the lines of "So and so is determined to strike in the US in the near future."

    13. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by CrackedButter · · Score: 0


      Before August 2001, in the spring of 2001. Colin Powell actually dismissed the same organisations that caused the 9/11 incident, funding was cut from various counter intelligence agencies as well.
      On your second point, the opposite was true, the easiest proof of this I can show you is within the first 30 minutes of Moores Fahrenheit 9/11 documentary. The government knew who and how.

    14. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1
      On your second point, the opposite was true, the easiest proof of this I can show you is within the first 30 minutes of Moores Fahrenheit 9/11 documentary. The government knew who and how.

      Uh huh. You need to put down Moore's crackpipe. I prefer information a little less psychotic and profitable, and a little more bipartisan.

    15. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by Alioth · · Score: 1

      Worse still is that a ship is large enough to conceal a very primitive (gun-type) nuclear weapon. Imagine what a ship steaming into Texas City or the Port of Houston could do in terms of deaths, and then in terms of economic damage by destroying some of the US's refining capacity if used in that manner.

    16. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by CrackedButter · · Score: 0

      Very interesting link, whose propaganda does one place their faith in? (Rhetorical)

    17. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by Ba3r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      for fucks sake, when will people realize that terrorism is a phenomenon that seeks out weak points in a society, and that there is No safety from it, aside from addressing the cause... i.e. injustice (mixed in with whatever malicious radical banner thats used to rally normal people into irrational violence and sacrifice).

      If we clamp down and do all this 'securing' of the arteries of the global economy, all we do is hamper growth. And that means the terrorists win.. because thats their goal: to impede normal operation and force you to react to them. And look how Fucking successful they are! Want to fuck up their plans? Try treating the people from which they come nicely.

    18. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by gone.fishing · · Score: 1

      Sigh, perhaps this is one place where I think our tax dollars are well spent. The money we are spending in Iraq right now is creating people who hate the United States, and I can hardly blame them - when another country comes into your country and kills your son, your brother, your uncle, or your dad on false pretenses, I can hardly blame them for hating us.

      We have had porous borders forever, we have so much coastline it is nearly impossible to secure them. But the threat of terrorisim is real and the most obvious targets should get their share of protection. Our ports (as much as the shipping itself) represents a capital investment not just by companies but by the nation itself. It is infrastructure that helps us maintain our standard of living and helps us economically as well making both the import and export of products economically possible. It isn't just a big corporate thing either. While big companies may have a bigger stake in it than small companies, even your corner store sells plenty of things that come in and out of these ports. It is far-reaching and vital to our economy that these ports be protected.

      Think I'm kidding? Close your eyes, reach out and pick up the first thing you touch. Pick it up, look at it. Where was it made? If it came in from overseas, it probably came in through a port.

      Perhaps we have little to fear, perhaps we have won the war on terrorisim but I don't think that is the case. Osama Bin-Laden is out there, he has followers and even if we get rid of him and all his henchmen, we still have to worry about the new terrorists we have created and our old enemies that are still out there.

    19. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by gone.fishing · · Score: 1

      I agree with the basis of what you are saying. The extra cost of extra security that is the result of terrorisism does reduce productivity and causes extra (and frequently unnecessary) costs. These things cause inflation.

      But using electronic systems mounted on bouys (many of which already exist) to extend our view or "expand the umbrella of protection" - is a reasonable and cost effective solution. It may result in a moderate increase in manpower but will not come anywhere near the cost of using naval power to escort the ships into port (which is what the alternitive would have been in the old days).

      It sounds to me like this is a very reasonable solution to a problem that has existed long before 9/11.

      This technology will also be used by the Coast Guard to augment their traditional roles of searc and rescue and interdiction. Searching seas for small boats is a difficult proposition in bad weather or at night. Adding this technology means that lives will be saved. The Coast Guard will be able to see further out to sea and locate small boats in trouble in severe weather faster and more efficiently.

    20. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by gone.fishing · · Score: 1

      You are correct. Crude oil probably wouldn't go boom and if my post made it sound like I thought it would, I am sorry - I did not mean for it to sound that way. However it would still create a disaster that would have significant environmental and economic consiquences. Especially if the attack managed to catch a ship off-loading and it damaged the terminal as well.

    21. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "we still have to worry about the new terrorists we have created"

      They hated us anyway. We'll never change that. What we can change is their ability to act on their hatred.

    22. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm, maybe because Bush was in office? Why do all these stupid Bush apologists try to blame Clinton?

      Clinton might've been an ass sometimes, but Bush is always a major prick.

    23. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you're dumb.

      How about going after the root of the cause instead of the symptom? You don't think that'd be better?

    24. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by mr100percent · · Score: 1

      Have there been any threats on tankers? Have there been any attempted attacks? Isn't a bigger problem that Oregon's (or was it Washington's) coastline is only guarded by one state trooper part-time?

      I'm sure this will help catch drug dealers, but I don't see terrorists trying this.

    25. Re:Shipping is a very attractive target by gone.fishing · · Score: 1

      I don't know where you are getting your information from. Both Oregon and Washington are in the 13th Coast Guard District and both have numerous stations up and down the coast. Having been stationed there, I can tell you that there are more than one state trooper assignged to the PCH. More than one of 'em gave me tickets!

      I do not know if there have been threats on tankers but that does not mean that there is no risk to them. Also, the system being put in place may have other benefits, especially for search and rescue efforts.

      To try to equate the system to something we know a bit more about, it is similar in concept to the Air Traffic Control system where controllers know what is supposed to be happening and can see what is happening. Red flags are raised when they see something that looks wrong. Same thing here. The large ships have to say where they are going, when the will be there and what they carry. Their route is charted and then watched to see if anything is happening that shouldn't be.

  16. Re:Nuke by Chess_the_cat · · Score: 1

    That's great and all but if you bothered to read the post you'd see that the new system extends the current limit from 25 miles not to 25 miles.

    --
    Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
  17. Mods - Roland is a plagarist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Roland Piquepaille and Slashdot: Is there a connection?

    I think most of you are aware of the controversy surrounding regular Slashdot article submitter Roland Piquepaille. For those of you who don't know, please allow me to bring forth all the facts. Roland Piquepaille has an online journal (I refuse to use the word "blog") located at www.primidi.com [primidi.com] [primidi.com] . It is titled "Roland Piquepaille's Technology Trends". It consists almost entirely of content, both text and pictures, taken from reputable news websites and online technical journals. He does give credit to the other websites, but it wasn't always so. Only after many complaints were raised by the Slashdot readership did he start giving credit where credit was due. However, this is not what the controversy is about.

    Roland Piquepaille's Technology Trends serves online advertisements through a service called Blogads, located at www.blogads.com [blogads.com] [blogads.com]. Blogads is not your traditional online advertiser; rather than base payments on click-throughs, Blogads pays a flat fee based on the level of traffic your online journal generates. This way Blogads can guarantee that an advertisement on a particular online journal will reach a particular number of users. So advertisements on high traffic online journals are appropriately more expensive to buy, but the advertisement is guaranteed to be seen by a large amount of people. This, in turn, encourages people like Roland Piquepaille to try their best to increase traffic to their journals in order to increase the going rates for advertisements on their web pages. But advertisers do have some flexibility. Blogads serves two classes of advertisements. The premium ad space that is seen at the top of the web page by all viewers is reserved for "Special Advertisers"; it holds only one advertisement. The secondary ad space is located near the bottom half of the page, so that the user must scroll down the window to see it. This space can contain up to four advertisements and is reserved for regular advertisers, or just "Advertisers". Visit Roland Piquepaille's Technology Trends (www.primidi.com [primidi.com] [primidi.com]) to see it for yourself.

    Before we talk about money, let's talk about the service that Roland Piquepaille provides in his journal. He goes out and looks for interesting articles about new and emerging technologies. He provides a very brief overview of the articles, then copies a few choice paragraphs and the occasional picture from each article and puts them up on his web page. Finally, he adds a minimal amount of original content between the copied-and-pasted text in an effort to make the journal entry coherent and appear to add value to the original articles. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Now let's talk about money.

    Visit http://www.blogads.com/order_html?adstrip_category =tech&politics= [blogads.com] [blogads.com] to check the following facts for yourself. As of today, December XX 2004, the going rate for the premium advertisement space on Roland Piquepaille's Technology Trends is $375 for one month. One of the four standard advertisements costs $150 for one month. So, the maximum advertising space brings in $375 x 1 + $150 x 4 = $975 for one month. Obviously not all $975 will go directly to Roland Piquepaille, as Blogads gets a portion of that as a service fee, but he will receive the majority of it. According to the FAQ [blogads.com] [blogads.com], Blogads takes 20%. So Roland Piquepaille gets 80% of $975, a maximum of $780 each month. www.primidi.com is hosted by clara.net (look it up at http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/index [networksolutions.com] [networks

  18. International waters? by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Isn't 100 miles out considered 'international waters' ?

    If it is the 100mil mark, that would mean its *none* of their damned business where my boat is..

    Why keep up this slow encroachment in the name of 'security' and just tag everyone/everything and get it over with? This is getting out of hand.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:International waters? by clifyt · · Score: 1

      Or since its in international waters, you can look at it as its everyones damned business to know why your boat is.

      And secondly, it is the US's business if you want to eventually enter US waters. Don't want to -- don't use the automated transponders that the US is requiring for these large boats and when you get within 20 miles, don't expect to go any further.

      Again, when in international territory anyone that wants to can spy on anyone else. Also remember, any US citizens must also obey the laws of the US even outside of their territorial borders. Other countries have similar laws.

    2. Re:International waters? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why don't you just call up the 'international waters' police and complain? oh wait...

    3. Re:International waters? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      International waters is the waters beyond the EEZ(Exclusive Economic Zone), which extends 200 nautical miles from shore.

    4. Re:International waters? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Personally its not anyones business, anywhere, anytime, unless I'm under official investigation. Just idle monitoring is wrong.. ( may be legal, but doesnt make it any less wrong )

      But aside from the monitoring issue, since when do i have to follow the laws of one country when I'm in another?

      The laws of the country I'm visiting wins out. Be them more strict, or loose... Claiming ' I'm from country xyz' wont get you very far..

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    5. Re:International waters? by klmth · · Score: 1

      Pick a country that forbids the recreational use and possession of pot, say Singapore. The laws of Singapore still apply to Singaporean citizens even if they choose to toke in Amsterdam. Now, if they fail a drug test at their workplace 30 days later, they cannot plea the fact that they were in Amsterdam at the time.

      There are lots of examples that are less contrived than this.

    6. Re:International waters? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1

      It was somewhat out of hand well before Nov 2000. It got really out of hand when a couple of buildings and 3000 people disappeared in September 2001.

    7. Re:International waters? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      But they can follow local laws while they are in Amsterdam, which was the point i was making.

      So when they get back, they once again fall under Singapore rules...

      In a way you proved my point.. just backwards :)

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    8. Re:International waters? by stephanruby · · Score: 1
      Isn't 100 miles out considered 'international waters' ? Why keep up this slow encroachment in the name of 'security' and just tag everyone/everything and get it over with? This is getting out of hand.

      If you think this 100 mile thing is bad, then you must be against spy satellites too. This slow encroachment you speak of is well underway.

    9. Re:International waters? by clifyt · · Score: 2, Informative

      But since you are in international waters, it doesn't matter if its 'anyones business'. If you are there, they can follow you, spy on you, annoy you all they want. It doesn't matter. As you have mentioned, the law doesn't apply out there.

      Well, some laws do -- international maritime laws, but none of these apply to the privacy of being able to go unseen.

      But back to the point, if you don't want to follow the laws of one country when you are in another -- thats cool. Just don't plan on going back to the other country. The laws of the host country supersede those of your parent country while you are there, but you *CAN* still be charged with breaking your parent countries laws while you are there. Ask Bobby Fisher. Hee had no plans to ever come back to the US, but as a citizen, he will most likely be deported back into US custody for breaking a US embargo.

      Same with any number of things. Kill a US citizen while on open waters in international waters and you happen to be a US citizen -- expect to be tried in a US court. They can even drag you out of international waters to do so.

      But the whole idea that its 'not anyones business' is a bit childish, isn't it. This is the whole cry of slashdot these days...I don't want anyone snooping on me. I can understand this if we are talking in your own home. But once you are in public, its fair game. I don't care if I have a police escort day after day -- I'd actually feel safer in my neighborhood. I live my life these days with nothing to hide. Its a shame too many others look at their life as something they can't even justify when they are out in public.

    10. Re:International waters? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1
      If you piloting a freighter, at latitude 38N, longitude 73W, going due west, 100 miles off the US coast, it can be pretty much assumed that you are not going anywhere but NYC or Baltimore. Not Sao Paulo. And as such, identify yourself.

      Think of this as IFF and air traffic control for freighters. Doesn't a country have the right to know the identity of a large ship approaching its coastline?

    11. Re:International waters? by nurb432 · · Score: 0, Troll

      You can have your police escort. I will choose to retian my privacy.

      And it doesnt matter that i have nothing to hide, its no one damned business..

      Period

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    12. Re:International waters? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      retribution
      n 1: a justly deserved penalty [syn: requital]
      2: the act of correcting for your wrongdoing
      3: the act of taking revenge (harming someone in retaliation
      for something harmful that they have done) especially in
      the next life; "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the
      Lord"--Romans 12:19; "For vengeance I would do nothing.
      This nation is too great to look for mere revenge"--James
      Garfield; "he swore vengeance on the man who betrayed
      him"; "the swiftness of divine retribution" [syn: vengeance,
      payback]


      Terrorism \Ter"ror*ism\, n. [Cf. F. terrorisme.]
      The act of terrorizing, or state of being terrorized; a mode
      of government by terror or intimidation. --Jefferson.

    13. Re:International waters? by clifyt · · Score: 1

      Then do so on private property.

      Its that easy. The public space is not private, nor is international waters.

    14. Re:International waters? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      No, even in 'public' there is an certian amount of privacy that is to be expected. This has been held up in court.

      Now the exact amount, and where the line is, that is up for grabs, but the concept is not.

      Though, let me catch you violating *my* privacy, even in public, and you are screwed. Regardless of any 'legal decisions'.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    15. Re:International waters? by clifyt · · Score: 1

      Not if you are a wacko with a tin foil hat.

      These are the same guys that will see a criminal with a gun in hand walking up to them, and decide hey! Its none of my business what someone else is doing in public, I'll be damned if we go down that slippery slope (tin foil hat wearers always use this phrase in inappropriate responses), we can't call the police or do anything that would put this person at illease for it would impede upon their rights.

    16. Re:International waters? by SEE · · Score: 3, Informative

      Territorial waters extends only 12 nautical miles, yes.

      However, there are several other factors under international law.

      First, the Exclusive Economic Zone extends to 200 nautical miles. In this zone, "[t]he coastal State may, in the exercise of its sovereign rights to explore, exploit, conserve and manage the living resources in the exclusive economic zone, [and] take such measures, including boarding, inspection, arrest and judicial proceedings, as may be necessary to ensure compliance with the laws and regulations adopted by it in conformity with this Convention."

      Second, international law does not merely permit, but requires countries to repress the slave trade, piracy, narcotics trafficing, and unauthorized broadcasting on the high seas (that is, the portion of the ocean outside of national jurisdiction).

      Third, all ships on the high seas either fly the flag of a soverign nation and are subject to its laws, or are "without nationality" -- and in the latter case, they are subject to boarding by any state's warships at any time, the lack of nationality itself being sufficient reason.

      None of this is new; the first is in the Convention of the Law of the Sea and goes back 25 years, while the international precedents for the second and third date to the ninteenth century and even earlier.

      By the way, note that since piracy is, under the UN Convention of the Law of the Sea and other international precedents, "any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed . . . against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State", it would be piracy to shoot these buoys even if they were on the high seas instead of in the U.S.'s EEZ. At which point every nation on Earth is obligated to cooperate in your capture.

    17. Re:International waters? by dotmax · · Score: 1

      you're not merely mistaken, you are abosolutely WRONG. Every country has the absolute right to know exactly where you are in international waters at every microsend you're there.

      They don't _necessarily_ have the right to make you do anything, nor answer any questions, but they have the right under an infinitude of international treaties, and maritime law, to track your whiny ignorant butt.

      Furthermore, while they cannot compel you to answer questions about yourself while out there, they can use your silence to keep you out of their country, or put another way, they can require you to answer questions -- with great specificity and lattitute -- prior to entry.

      This is not a whole lot different than applying for a travel visa, in case the distinctions of national soveriegnty and border control are beyond you.

    18. Re:International waters? by dotmax · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's great. Your "right to privacy" (assuming you're in the us) derives from the 10th amendment and various SCOTUS decisions.

      In Other Words: Tell it to the rest of the world, bub. They, the international community, the World Court, the UN etc^100 will laugh themselves blue.

      Your "right to privacy" is extinguished when you leave the jurisdiction of the US.

    19. Re:International waters? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Considering i was speaking of a boat out in international waters only, and not requesting entry to a port, I'm not wrong.

      Requesting entry to a country, that is different.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    20. Re:International waters? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Excuse me, how do you know its a criminal that is walking up to you? You have some evidence? Nope.

      I have a **right** to carry that gun in my state.

      When you see me walking towards you, are you going to claim 'he *might* be a criminal, lets search him'?

      Thats garbage. That is a good example of the slope you seem to not want to admit exists..

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    21. Re:International waters? by clifyt · · Score: 1

      Dude,

      You are a fucking nut job pure and simple.

      Its also a right that you can dress up in chicken feathers and make otter noises, but that doesn't guarentee that others can't look and point at you when you do.

      You might have the right to carry a weapon, but you are a pud if you do so. I have my license to protect the rights to carry, but I haven't owned a gun in years. The only reason to own one of these is to put a hole in someone else. Its not for protection -- that is a secondary purpose because of its original intent to put holes in things that didn't have them in the first place. I might think its a persons right to carry, but I'm not going to feel safe around any wacko that feels the need to let me know he is capable of doing so.

      As such, I will be a little warry of someone coming up on me with said weapon and will do what I can to be observant of folks with these weapons. Considering they are well armed, what does it matter if they are tracked or not.

      Go put on your tin foil hat and pretend you are supporting your rights. The only right you are showing others is the right to be a paranoid freak. Thats cool, no one is stopping you from being one. No one is also stopping me from pointing this out.

      Sad when my rights get in the way or yours, eh?

    22. Re:International waters? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      You have the right to point all you want...

      What i was commenting on was the the part about calling the police and 'assumption' of being a criminal. That concept of 'presumed guilt' was over the line.. Not the act of pointing. ( as well as if the police were to act on any 'presumed guilt' )

      If you want to act like an bigoted, frightened ass and call attention to yourself by pointing 'look he's got a gun, oh my', in an area where its 100% legal to have one.. go ahead.. Its your right.. Its called free speech. ( at least it is until you make the false public accusation of me being a criminal, that would be
      a crime in itsself )

      If i want to call attention to myself by exercising my constitutional rights, thats fine too.

      Our rights dont conflict here.

      But, we are way over the top here as far as straying OT .. might as well end this ..

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    23. Re:International waters? by klmth · · Score: 1

      No, my point was that the laws of the Netherlands apply, as well as the laws of Singapore.

      A US citizen shall abide to US laws even when abroad, in addition to any local laws.

    24. Re:International waters? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Too bad you are wrong.

      Simple example:

      Drinking age in US is 21. Its 18 in the country being visit. A 19 year old can drink, while hes visiting.

      ( differing law issues even exist *within* the US.. and the state you are in currently, wins. )

      And im done with this thread.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    25. Re:International waters? by kieronb · · Score: 1

      Article 12 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights states:

      No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

      So no, the right to privacy is considered by the international community to be a fundamental human right, whatever juristiction you may be in.

    26. Re:International waters? by dotmax · · Score: 1

      This is a joke, right?

      What you cited is a meaningless declaration with no power of enforcement. A declaration is an impotent expression of opinion, without force of law. Find me a treaty which says the same thing and backs it up with the coercive power of the law.

  19. Re:Large Vessels by Mattintosh · · Score: 1

    They're talking about the nuclear wessels.

  20. Why not remote sensing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have a huge array of remote sensing satellites. Ships are big, they don't move very fast. They have a pretty big heat signature. Radar works at night and through clouds.

    To cover the offshore area properly would require a huge numbers of bouys. Never mind dozens; try thousands.

    1. Re:Why not remote sensing? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Sensors of the kind on satellites (and other extant systems) will tell you that there is a ship of some kind. The new buoys will then send a transponder query instructing the ship to identify itself. The reply to this will be verified, hopefully including a check on the last recorded position of the identified ship and distance / speed analysis to determine whether it can have been the same ship, possibly comparing the thermal signature of the ship with previously recorded satellite images. A good sensor fusion program will continue to track ships when they leave the monitored area and ensure that the transponder code and the satellite track match at all times.

      Once the system has queried an approaching ship, it will either know the identity of the vessel, or the fact that it is attempting to conceal its identity (either by not responding to transponder queries or by spoofing the replies from a ship known to be elsewhere). In the second of these cases, the coast guard can intercept it. This system does not replace satellite coverage, it complements it.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  21. Need More than Just Buoys: China & Mexico by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The system of buoys is clever and low-cost, but you also need a network of underground sonar tracking stations. The Chinese have repeatedly tested our naval perimeters by sending submarines into American waters. The idea of Chinese kidnapping American citizens and hauling them onto a Chinese submarine (in North Korean style) poses a significant threat to the American population.

    As well, what is the purpose of just protecting the seas when our border with Mexico is completely unsecure? The Chinese have troops on the Mexican side of the border. Further Islamic thugs have made trips back and forth across that border.

    LaRaza be damned. We should pull out troops out of South Korea and put them on the US-Mexican border.

  22. Re:Nuke by Travoltus · · Score: 1

    You'd probably need a few hundred megatons to displace enough water to cause a nasty tsunami. A normal underwater nuke offshore would be more likely to poison a whole lot of seawater and totally screw up the fishing industry.

    --
    --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
  23. Not Roland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nope. I'm just a /. old-timer who thinks trolls suck-ass. You guys need some attrition in your ranks! You're the same sad old-timers who used to submit penis bird and crap-flooding posts. It's been six years or more now! Don't you have a job yet?

    1. Re:Not Roland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you have a job yet?

      Don't you, Roland? Oh thats right, you just whore Slashdot for a living.

    2. Re:Not Roland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're really dumb enough to keep replying, aren't you? !!!ROR!!! stupid troll !!!ROR!!!

    3. Re:Not Roland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, Roland is having a pretty good time defending himself on /.

    4. Re:Not Roland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at all those modpoints you're wasting on 11234843" and 11234790. Those accounts you're modding with are gonna get slammed in M2. How much trouble is it to create a bogus account, get positive karma, and finally mod points to blow? How much time do you waste on this shit? God, I hope you're doing bonghits... because otherwise, I don't know how you could live with the boredom.

    5. Re:Not Roland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't have modpoints, Roland.

  24. Oh, great.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. now I have to make my SHIP out of tin-foil!

    1. Re:Oh, great.. by fyrewulff · · Score: 1

      Remind me to invest in Reynolds before you do that..

      --
      "We need to get over this notion, that, for Apple to win... Microsoft must lose." - Steve Jobs, 1997
  25. My impression was... by Icarus1919 · · Score: 1, Informative

    That beyond 11 miles out is international waters, are they allowed to do this? I'm pretty sure it's 11 because that's how the Cruise ship casino's operate, by going into international waters.

    1. Re:My impression was... by cookiepus · · Score: 1

      are they allowed to do this

      Why -wouldn't- they be allowed to do this in international waters? Who's gonna complain?

    2. Re:My impression was... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Whoes going to complain when some enterprising young person starts hauling these Bouys in and sells them for parts/scrap/technology? An unmanned item in international waters has no property claim against it, anyone can take ownership of it.

    3. Re:My impression was... by Yea-but... · · Score: 3, Informative

      (1) The US claims 200 miles as the Economic Exclusion Zone. International Waters off the US Coast begin there. (2) The rules (by the way, there are rules that govern international waters and the High Seas) that govern salvage rights would not apply to a buoy because it is anchored to the sea floor. (3) We're not talking about international waters or something "adrift." (4) The "enterprising young person" that undertakes what you've suggested will have a serious problem dealing with one of these buoys in the first place. They are likely larger than any boat a "young person" could afford. Even if they could deal with the size, anchor, and chain and so on, the authorities would likely releave them of what we call their liberty. (5) Don't forget the USCG and the USN. The Captains know the rules and have the ability to enforce them.

    4. Re:My impression was... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      This would be classed by Article 15, Section 1.a of the Geneva Convention on the High Seas as Piracy on the High Seas. If you were to do this from a US flag ship or a ship bearing the flag of a nation with an extradition treaty with the US then you could find yourself in court facing this charge (one for which stiff penalties exist). There is a good chance, however, that you would be caught by a US vessel. The USCG have some fast ships, and you would by definition be being tracked by their detection systems if you were this close to one of their buoys. Satellites would probably be used to continue to track you after you approached one of their buoys which then went dead. In this case then article 19 of the treaty authorises said ship to seize your vessel, arrest the persons aboard, and sentence them according to US law.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:My impression was... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Bear in mind that during the above thread, we were explicitly discussing bouys in International Waters, you seem to be under the impression otherwise.

      (1) I know, but the EEZ does not extend Internationa Waters limits, it only protects the rights of the nation holding the EEZ to exploitation rights, it does not grant full Territorial Waters rights to the 200mile extent. The US is not alone in claiming this 200mile EEZ.
      (2) and (3) The 1989 International Convention On Salvage excludes international savlage rights for such items as 'Oil rigs or other tethered or floating vessels engaged in the act of mineral exploitation or exploration' and also excludes 'items intentionally attached to the shoreline', shoreline is quite different from sea floor. Seems tethered bouys in international waters are fair game then.
      (4) I see you are taking me literally.
      (5) If this is in international waters, which is what the thread was assuming, then they have no say in the matter, and any attempt to stop or interfere with the salvage could be deemed as Piracy on the High Seas. They couldnt even charge them with theft if the salvage boat put into port at the previous owners country.

    6. Re:My impression was... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1
      Article 15 1.a pertains to MANNED vessels, and ILLEGAL acts of violence, agression or theft against said vessels and crew/passengers or property. Let us quote article 15:
      Article 15

      Piracy consists of any of the following acts:

      (1) Any illegal acts of violence, detention or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

      (a) On the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;

      (b) Against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

      (2) Any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;

      (3) Any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in sub-paragraph 1 or sub-paragraph 2 of this article.
      So, our act of 'piracy' isnt covered by 1.a, as its not against another ship or aircraft, or persons or property on board such. It also isnt covered under 1.b as the 1989 International Convention on Salvage only excludes items such as 'fixed or floating vessels or platforms engaged in exploitation, exploration or production of seabed mineral deposits' and 'property permanently and intentionally attached to the shoreline and includes freight at risk.' of which our bouys arent, they are tethered to the sea floor, so the act of salvage of the bouy is legal, which infact negates article 15 entirely.
  26. Belive it or not this is a good thing! by Psychofreak · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Starting in 2000 all vessels over 300 tons were required to upgrade to Digital Selective Calling (DSC) radio equipment. This allows for better distress monitoring among other uses. At the same time all new marine VHF radio designs were required to be DSC enabled. There was a grandfather clause that allowed old designs to be produced until yesterday (Dec 31, 2004).

    This means that when you go boating and (god forbid) something happens, very little knowhow is required to start an emergency response You just push a little button on your radio and your GPS coordinates are transmitted to all vessels around you, including the Coast Guard and all vessels over 300 tons.

    You do need to register to obtain an MMSI number which will request your boat and personal information. This information is to be used in case of a Search and RESCUE which will hopefully not turn into a Search and RECOVERY. (the basic difference is if you need a medic or a coroner)

    Yes there is a system that is similar using Emergency Position Indicating Radiobeacon or EPIRB

    The use of weather monitoring buoys as transmition monitors is a logical step to help coordinate rescue efforts. Yes it is also "Big Brother" watching us. This does not mean that it will restrict the rights of how commerce occurs, and may even expedite trade by making customs less intense. The cargo will already be partially identified, so when the government officials show up they know what to expect.

    As a final note, private not-for-hire vessels are not required to carry ANY electronic OR electrical devices by any government. Yes, running lights are required on most vessels at night, but oil lamps have worked for centuries.

    Just my $.02

    Phil

    --
    Laugh, it's good for you!
    1. Re:Belive it or not this is a good thing! by iammaxus · · Score: 1

      You'd think people piloting vessels over 300 tons would know how start an emergency response. How hard could it be?

    2. Re:Belive it or not this is a good thing! by dj245 · · Score: 1

      In addition, for vessels over a certain size, there is a "big red button" that signals the coast guard that the vessel is being taken over by terrorists. My roomate (studying for a Marine Transportation degree and unlimited ton Coast Guard liscense) recommends not messing around with the button as the coast guard has never had a false alarm to date with these.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    3. Re:Belive it or not this is a good thing! by Psychofreak · · Score: 1

      Good comment, I did make an inaccurate funny!

      All fixed-mount marine VHF radios produced are now DSC enabled. This means that when you want to equip your boat, dingy, log raft, canoe, yacht....Whatever...the radio you purchase will either be an old design (West Marine has a large backstock of Standard Horizon's Eclipse+ radio) or DSC enabled. You will still need a GPS unit to feed data to the radio.

      End result is that most individuals involved in boating will have a DSC radio and GPS in the very near future. This will save lives.

      There will still be some die-hards I feel should be commended for relying on tried and true seamanship skills instead of gadgets. I know more than a few people, and several classes of racing boats that go so far as to BAN electronics on the boats (Ok, usually due to lack of batteries). For the racing classes, look up Highlander, Y-flyer, and J-21. The boats may be little more than dingy's to many people, and definitly daysailers to all, but they still have an ethic of not using electronics to alter how the boats are raced.

      Phil

      --
      Laugh, it's good for you!
    4. Re:Belive it or not this is a good thing! by natophonic · · Score: 1
      In addition, for vessels over a certain size, there is a "big red button" that signals the coast guard that the vessel is being taken over by terrorists. My roomate (studying for a Marine Transportation degree and unlimited ton Coast Guard liscense) recommends not messing around with the button as the coast guard has never had a false alarm to date with these.
      meaning they've never had an alarm, or that there have been actual terrorist takeovers of large commercial vessels?

      if the latter, are we talking within US waters, or someplace like the malacca straits (which have had an increasing problem with piracy).
    5. Re:Belive it or not this is a good thing! by Detritus · · Score: 1

      Piracy, the real sort, is a major problem in many parts of the world. Hopefully this will help. There isn't much difference between a pirate and a terrorist when they are attacking a vessel.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    6. Re:Belive it or not this is a good thing! by Zerth · · Score: 1

      nope, meaing that if you don't already have a group of terrorists aboard, a group of terrorists will be assigned to you. Kinda like the US legal system.

    7. Re:Belive it or not this is a good thing! by jc42 · · Score: 1

      One thing I noticed in the article was the mention of "buoys, from 9 to 39 feet across". Some of those are good-sized platforms. If they're really iinterested in using them to save lives, they should make it easy for a boater in distress to quickly locate the buoy, and they should have a small house on-board. Then, if your boat is still steerable, you might stand a chance of taking shelter in the buoy until help arrives. This is assuming that they're serious about saving lives, of course.

      An interesting case of banned onboard electronics in "primitive" craft is with the revival of the Polynesian ocean-going canoes. While the teams building and sailing them have generally refused to use anything but traditional navigation techniques, they have usually carried satellite-comm gear. This is for two reasons. The obvious is emergence use. The other is that they want accurate tracking, so that after a voyage they can compare their actual path with where they thought they were.

      The most-described of these is the Hokule'a, the first such built by a Hawaiian team. Google will find you lots of info about it. National Geographic has published several stories on the topic, including one about their maiden voyage to Tahiti. It's impressive how closely their calculated track has usually agreed with the satellite data.

      (They have also said that, due to the lack of large trees, they were forced to make hulls of modern material, which made the craft too light to perform correctly. They needed some extra mass to make up for the missing wood, and electronics that they don't use seemed like a good source of that mass, as did an emergency outboard motor and fuel carefully stowed below. ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  27. Re:Nuke by DaHat · · Score: 3, Funny
    And now you see part of the reason I so love living here in South Dakota.

    Lets go through the list of disasters we don't have on the east side of the state, nor have any risk of.
    1. Tsunami... No large volumes of water
    2. Earth Quakes... No local tectonic plates
    3. Racial Riots... Not anymore (it's been over 100 years since the last rebellion that was put down

    4. Volcano... See #2
    5. General Flooding... not uncommon, but rarely lethal


    6. I will admit though... we do live in fear of the day or former governor gets behind the wheel again.
  28. Public Domain Information by matthew.thompson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This information is already in the public domain because of a system known as AIS.

    AIS consists of radio ID transponders which transmit the ID, status and destination of ocean going vessels.

    A Google search will bring up much including sites which display the information graphically live for free.

    --
    Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
  29. More tracking? by geekoid · · Score: 2, Funny

    Oh, Bouy.

    Thank you!

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:More tracking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaah buoy!!!!

  30. OTOH by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    if you can do what you want in international waters, why can't they?

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:OTOH by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Then that means i can block their transmissions .. or blow them out of the water..

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:OTOH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      or blow them out of the water..

      Sure. You can do that. If you do, there's a good chance the US will view that as an act of war or terrorism and send a missile strike your way (if you are on a boat in international waters).

      I'm not sure how big your army is, but it's probably not as big as the US's.

    3. Re:OTOH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure how big your army is, but it's probably not as big as the US's.

      The US Military may be large and well equipped, but right now it is also very busy. Best to stick expensive equipment on home turf instead of inviting waste.

    4. Re:OTOH by dotmax · · Score: 1

      You might want to familiarize yourself with the meaining of "enemy combatant".

  31. Re:Need More than Just Buoys: China & Mexico by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    agree with putting troops on the border, but it would be for shooting the slow-motion invaders that are crossing now. glad to see you listen to late night am radio (ie chinese troops in mexico).

  32. Re:For a second I read that as by cookiepus · · Score: 1

    Witness the deseased mind of a pedophiliac.

  33. But wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is not fishing industry off Canada's east coast, so maybe the underwater nuke won't be as bad as all that...

    Does the US still have fish out there? Can they herd some North please? :-)

  34. You Sad Bastard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    1. Re:You Sad Bastard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Roland is one sad bastard.

  35. Re:Nuke by budgenator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    nukes detonated underground or underwater yield disapionting results. The Blast of a nuke isn't generated by converting a mass explosives to a superheated gas like conventional explosives are, but is the result of the surrounding medium absorbing and re-radiating the initial gamma ray burst. Gamma rays have a color-temperature of about 35*10^7 degrees, each re-radiation reduces the color-temperature, the point where the color-temp is down to about 1200 is called the fire-ball.

    So while, Water and Earth simply don't have enough gammma tranperency to generate a decent fireball or blast by nuclear standards, you wouldn't want to be next to one either. My guess is to attempt to generate a nuclear tsunami, I'd air-burst about 400M above the water and try for a strike-slip wave tsunami by used the shockwave to depres the water surface rather than going under water and attempting to lift the water.

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  36. Re:Nuke by mjpaci · · Score: 1

    True, but 25 years ago you were a primary site for thousands of Soviet war-heads.

    --Mike

  37. Re:Nuke by techno-vampire · · Score: 1
    How about blizzards and twisters?

    As far as volcanos go, you don't need to be on the edge of a plate for one to form, just near a thin spot. (Not that you have any in SD, mind you.) Earthquakes don't happen only at the edges of the great big plates, but along cracks between smallish ones as well. Also, quakes can make themselves felt for long distances if they're big enough. The New Madrid Quake was felt in Philidelphia and rang church bells in Boston. Imagine what it must have been like within a hundred miles or so of the epicenter! (To give you an even better idea how big that one was, the ground dropped so far that the Mississippi was running backwards for three days filling it up!)

    --
    Good, inexpensive web hosting
  38. mnb Re:Need More than Just Buoys: China & Mexi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    glad to see you listen to late night am radio...


    That's where they tell the real truth.
  39. Why such hatred? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hated the guy too when he the links first started appearing. This because the links always were like too much like advertisements for his blog.

    But I've found that his blog is basically nice, although I don't read it myself. So please give the guy a break.

    You know what also bothers me. It's Slashdot's "Read More". The whole story should be syndicated without having to go to Slashdot to read up anything else than comments! Likewise, from the front page you should not have to click on "Read More" unless you want to see the comments.

    1. Re:Why such hatred? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Roland is a blatant plagarist and scam artists. The proof is in the pudding.

      Remember that "Tactile Digital Assitant" that Roland was so hip on advertising on Slashdot? Remember the pre-orders? No one received their TDA and the company is basically non-existant now. Roland obviously had a hand in this scam and yet no one seems to care.

    2. Re:Why such hatred? by edittard · · Score: 0
      "So please give the guy a break."

      Happy to oblige. Left leg or right?

      --
      At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
  40. Re:For a second I read that as by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi CmdrTaco!

  41. We're all on the same side here... by sczimme · · Score: 5, Funny


    Let's not turn this into buoys vs. gulls.

    /so sorry

    --
    I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
  42. Don't international waters start 3mi offshore? by linuxhansl · · Score: 1

    As far as I remember everything beyond 3 sea-miles form any landmass are international waters. Everybody can move in international waters as one pleases.

    1. Re:Don't international waters start 3mi offshore? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Interesting

      International waters start at varying distances, historically they were the range at which a shore battery could potentially hit a ship at sea, so the range of that battery then, usually set at 3 nautical miles. Between 1945 and 1982, various countries declared limits from 3 miles, all the way out to 200 miles.

      The Third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea was agreed in 1982 and set in force in 1994, and that limited full rights to 12 miles, and a further 24 miles for reasons of prevention of smuggling. At various points around the globe, territorial waters laws are overruled by various 'rights of passage', including military vessels, which are allowed to maintain stances in such areas that would be deemed illegal in normal territorial waters. Such zones include the Gibraltar Straits, where the territorial owner cannot bar transit access to a nation they are not at war with.

      Exploration rights, or rights to exploit mineral deposits on teh sea bed, extend out to 200 miles for each coastal nation, and where these overlap, both nations have equal rights.

    2. Re:Don't international waters start 3mi offshore? by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Although it's already been shown that you're not accurate, so what? They may move as they wish. We may query them as we wish and use that information when they try to dock (our waters, eh).

  43. Re:Nuke by ksheff · · Score: 1

    You forgot about tornadoes and blizzards. But those can be tracked and you can prepare for them.

    Hopefully, I'll be able to get back to SD to see my parents in a week or two. I would love to move back.

    --
    the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
  44. 80's bands by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    "What happens when our enemies...train flocks of seagulls to crap all over the transmitters?"

    I've wondered what happened to that band.

    Do you think Tears for Fears or George Michaels could be trained to poop on command as well?

  45. You really have to ask why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He steals other people's works for his blog, then probably pays slashdot under the table for repeatedly posting his links. He offers nothing insightful (like Slashdot), yet gets paraded around the Slashdot front page like he's some sort of expert. He's a thief, plain and simple.

  46. from Alaska to Maine. by rossdee · · Score: 1

    I thought that the coastline from Alaska to Maine was Canadian teritory, or do they mean going the long way around including South America (which would also be outside the US coast guard jurisdiction.)

  47. This is not for defence by Usquebaugh · · Score: 1

    This is going to make the US safer? How?

    Let's think about this for a second.

    The US imports a lot of goods, in fact a hell of a lot of goods. Most of these goods come in 40ft containers. These contianers can enter the shipping system at a number of points, very rarely are they opened during transit.

    If I was of a certain mind and wanted to detontate my pet nuke how would I get it into position. I would not hijack a ship, to much effort and risk. I would load it into a container and hook up a pocket GPS to the trigger.

  48. land borders by menem · · Score: 1

    I sometimes wonder why we don't do something similar at our land borders? We are protecting our sea borders by detecting all ships. Why not create land buoys to detect illegal crossings.

    1. Re:land borders by fuzzy12345 · · Score: 1
      I sometimes wonder why we don't do something similar at our land borders? We are protecting our sea borders by detecting all ships. Why not create land buoys to detect illegal crossings.

      Y'all had them in Vietnam. I don't know how well they worked, but you lost that war.

      --

      Everybody's a libertarian 'till their neighbour's becomes a crack house.
    2. Re:land borders by CdBee · · Score: 1

      I think its a lot easier to detect and track a 3,000 ton ship than a single human being.

      --
      I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
    3. Re:land borders by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      Y'all had them in Vietnam. I don't know how well they worked, but you lost that war.

      I understand that what lost the war was not the US pullout, but congress cutting off military aid shortly after. The SVA was apparently up to speed on taking over the war. But without supplies they collapsed.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    4. Re:land borders by fuzzy12345 · · Score: 1
      The SVA was apparently up to speed on taking over the war.

      Yeah, that's right. Once the US Army began to pull out, the SVA was going to come back from their golfing holiday in Hawaii and replace 500,000 US troops. With equal effectiveness. Makes you wonder, why didn't the SVA and the US Army fight side by side? Obviously, if your thesis is correct, they could've won.

      Not that we should make any inferences about Iraq...

      --

      Everybody's a libertarian 'till their neighbour's becomes a crack house.
    5. Re:land borders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They *did* fight together. Why don't you try doing a little research before you post, eh?

    6. Re:land borders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      easy enough to answer, how hard is it to disable a bouy? trust me without scuba gear or some heavy weapons you won't. why? acess they are damn hard to get near, A you need a boat, B you gotta get close but not crash as they will tear a medium sized boat up, tricky to impossible depending on sea conditions. C its the open ocean no where to run or hide if someone stumbles onto you.

      land bouys would be easily acessible, seeing how you can walk right up to them, guards and fences are easily over come, plus guards are expensive. Hell you could steal the componest and sell em on black market...

  49. What a worthless article by klmth · · Score: 1

    Not one bit in the article discusses anything about the technical bit. There isn't even a mention of whether or not they would use systems already installed on on all cargo ships above a certain gross tonnage, such as AIS.

    Simply using the buoys to extend the coverage of their AIS network would make a lot of sense, since the transmitters are already installed on all relevant vessels and do contain some form of voyage data. Requiring Vessels to retrofit YAMaritime Surveillance Transponder doesn't make any sense.

  50. Re:Nuke by gomiam · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't be so confident about earthquakes and volcanos. There's these little pesky things called plumes which happen to turn from time to time into hot points, who push through the Earth crust (see Hawaii (and the African Rift?) for examples). Not that I imply you are going to see one popping up in your neighbourhood in your life.

  51. Re:Nuke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On the other hand, you live within the area likely to be affected the next time the supervolcano at Yellowstone goes off.

  52. Hackerable buoys... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    I wonder if there are enough safe guards to prevent someone from hacking the machine transmitting the ship data or accessing the network through the buoy transmitters. Electronic warfare is going to be a popular hacking sub-genre.

    1. Re:Hackerable buoys... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      apparently there is a hurricane happening in the pacific, named pwn3d. More news at 11

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Hackerable buoys... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      False alarm. Has this been an actual emergency...

    3. Re:Hackerable buoys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has been for years

  53. Not since president Nixon... by human+bean · · Score: 1

    Who extended the marine rights of the US to two hundred miles off-shore for most purposes, including shipping and fishing. It was done in response to other countries who were extending marine boundaries for a variety of reasons.

    Besides, it's not like the Navy doesn't know where you are. It's just that their equipment is better hidden. Oh, and as far as "rights" out on the open ocean go you don't have any, as opposed to the captain of an aircraft carrier, who obviously does...

    --

    *whup* "Get along, little electrons. Heeyah!"

  54. collected and assembled locally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Things collected locally and assembled locally will still be a big problem. The best way to protect the country is to have progressive policies that don't try and enslave other nations for the multinational cartels that think that they rule the world.

    You make friends with people and then they don't want to kill you.

    Bouys seem like a cheap way to go to survey ships at sea. But what about walruses and whales and sea birds? What about killer dolphins? (lol)

  55. Re:Nuke by Lord+Pillage · · Score: 1

    I'd say the exploding a nuke over water to create a tsunami would not work. Water, as a liquid, is considered to be incompressible and attempting to create a wave through compression just doesn't seem viable to me.

    --
    try { Signature mysig = new CleverAttempt(); } catch(NonCleverSignatureException e) { postanyway(); }
  56. Doesn't improve security by karnat10 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ships without that device won't be allowed in ports, so the first thing terrorists do is to install such a device.

    And no, they won't declare their nuke in the freight papers...

    The same (non-)effect could be achieved practically for free using satellites, so IMHO this is another case of "Look how we spend your tax dollars to improve our security!".

    The paranoia is terrorizing me.

  57. OB Simpsons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I, for one, welcome our new bobbing, waterproof overlords.

  58. NOAA Buoys... by Jon+Michaelchuck · · Score: 1

    As a sailor I always found this really cool: http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/ The NOAA has realtime data available from all its weather buoys in the oceans and great lakes; wave height, wind speed and direction, etc.

    --
    GHelm: A FOSS vector nautical chart
  59. Re:"land bouys" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Viet Nam, the CIA deployed sensors which looked like turds,
    in order to detect VC and NVA troop movements.

    It's difficult to imagine what sort of sensor tech is available now,
    though there have been persistent rumors of "sniffers" around the places such as Area 51.

    Despite this, technology will never render complete safety, because the mind of man is infinitely capable of coming up with "workarounds".

    Just think back on how many times ONE man has taken action which changed the course of history, and you will get the idea
    of what the morons at the Department of "Homeland Security"
    are up against.

    Me, I think it's funny ...

  60. Re:Nuke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Huh? Water is incompressible, that's true, but you're not compressing the water - you're shifting it.

    If it helps, think about what happens when you blow downwards on to a cup of water (with a straw if you really want to see clearly). That's the effect the OP suggested.

  61. Like Iran? by GojiraDeMonstah · · Score: 1


    But Iran's so far away...

    --
    "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, it's just a goddamned piece of paper!" - George W. Bush Nov. 2005
  62. Discrimination! by SnappingTurtle · · Score: 1
    If they're going to use floating bouys, they should also use floating girlies.

    --
    I've found that my posts don't format quite right w/o a sig.
  63. Duhh... by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 1

    No one is required to report. But if you expect to enter the US territorial waters, ie, a port to unload your cargo, then you have to report. This report includes destination, ship name and registry, cargo, etc, not all of which is known to Navy surveillance planes.

    That's a pretty hard concept to get a pea brain around, especially when it's wrapped in tinfoil.

  64. Container bombs. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If I was of a certain mind and wanted to detontate my pet nuke how would I get it into position. I would not hijack a ship, to much effort and risk. I would load it into a container and hook up a pocket GPS to the trigger.

    This is something that has concerned me for a while - starting when I was motoring past a port instalation with an enormous stack of COSCO containers during a period when the US and China were rattling sabers a bit.

    In case you're not familiar with it, COSCO is the Chinese Overseas Shiping COrporation - which evolved out of the Chinese Red Army.

    Even a small container can contain a BIG H-bomb. Most places such containers commonly go - ports, transportaion hubs, railroads, highways, population centers - qualify as targets.

    They're big enough to contain a chemical device suitable for taking out a city. Biologicals take even less space, and could disperse an aerosol while in motion.

    Or you chould ship whole divisions of soldiers and their equipment in such containers (with the ones containing people disguised as refrigerated food containers to keep them at the edges of stacks for access to air and get them delivered quickly) if you wanted to stage an invasion.

    However, I hear that since 9/11 and the antiterrorist reaction, US customs is inspecting and sealing many of the containers at the ports of EMbarcation, and stopping and inspecting container ships about 25 miles offshore, once they're inside the "you can enforce your antismuggling laws" limit. (You can't open the containers on shipboard, of course. But you can detect radiologicals - especially neutron emitters - without unstacking them.)

    I don't know how much they're covering. (It IS a government program, after all.) But at least they're aware of the issue and trying to do what they can about it.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:Container bombs. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      and then, we would rain fire down from the heavens upon them.

      "Or you chould ship whole divisions of soldiers and their equipment in such containers (with the ones containing people disguised as refrigerated food containers to keep them at the edges of stacks for access to air and get them delivered quickly) if you wanted to stage an invasion."

      so, 10000 guys, who made it across the ocean with little room for supllies, begin crawling out of these containers and then???
      shoot up the port? storm the castle?

      yeah, there's a good isera.

      try working in global logistics for a while. It was tough before 9/11, after words well lets just hope you don't have 'bin' anywhere in your name.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  65. open ocean sensors with no markings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was told by someone on a naval vessel that they came across an array of sensors in the middle of nowhere more than 200 miles from shore (wouldn't say which ocean) that weren't on their lists and had no markings, serial numbers, "made in ...", ownership info, "call X in case of emergency", etc. They said they dumped the things back into the drink and scooted out of there.

  66. Tsunami watch more important by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think if anything requires another couple millions of our hard earned tax dollars it is monitoring tsunamis that pose a REAL threat to the coasts and not for IMAGINARY terrorists in order to divert public attention from our home-made political crisis.

  67. Re:Nuke by scottv67 · · Score: 0

    The gp post (budgenator) has hit it right on the mark. Pushing "down" on the top of the water to create a wave is *exactly* how the monstrous wave pool at Noah's Ark in Wisconsin Dells works.

    Humoungous fans push compressed air straight down on the the water under the brown building at the front of the wave pool. Since water is incompressible, the liquid in front of the building (which would be the deep end of the wave pool) has no choice but to rise up and get out of the way. This forms a wave that heads toward the shallow end of the pool.

    Think of blowing air into a straw that is sitting in a glass of Coke (the beverage, not the nose candy). When you blow into the straw, the Coke level inside the straw goes down while the Coke level in the glass goes up slightly.

    The cool thing about the huge wave pool is that there were five chambers across the front of the wave pool that were/are used to create waves.

    If you fire tubes 1, 3, and 5, wait a second and then fire tubes 2 and 4, you get a very cool diamaond pattern of wave peaks that travels from the deep end of the pool to the shallow end. I belive the lifeguards used to call that the "Double Diamonds". IIRC, this was also the pattern that was most likely to drown people.

    If you fire tube 1, wait, then fire tube 2, then fire tube 3, then fire tube 4, wait and then fire tube 5, you get a wave that travels diagnolly across the pool like the angled blade on a snowplow.

    I think I also saw them open all five air chambers at the same time. You get one huge wave the width of the pool that barrels toward the shallow end of the pool.

    The coolest thing about the wave pool was that the 400hp motors and the hydraulics that opened and closed the gates were all controlled by a small computer that was about 5" by 5" and an inch thick. The EEs who designed that little baby definitely had my respect.

    How do I know all about the wave pool? I worked there the summer she was built!

    Long story short, I tend to believe the grandparent post who said "Explode the nuke *above* the water and let the shockwave make the water move".

    -Scott

  68. Michael Sims is the connection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Roland Piquepaille and /. editor Michael "Domain Squatter" Sims are longtime pals. It wouldn't surprise me if Michael gets $100 for every Roland Piquepaille article he posts on the front page.

  69. Why not just use SOSUS? by FatBear · · Score: 1

    The Navy has a complete offshore surveilance system already in place. It is sonar based, but can still monitor incoming traffic by sound and it is highly sophisticated. If ships are to be required to use a transponder, why not make it sonar-based instead of radio?

  70. Re:Why not remote sensing? Yes but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is still WAY cheaper to do transponders from a satellite. Look at all the semi-trailer trucks with transponders. They can track these trucks quite cheaply. If you can convince all ship owners to equip their vessels with transponders, satellite is the obvious and cheap solution.

    This thing smells like a boondogle. Maybe they are trying to pay for their scientific bouys by making them look like they are involved in national security. Just say that something is for homeland defense and you have an unlimited budget. I call government bullcrap.

  71. Re:Nuke by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

    As it presses down, water is pushed to the sides, it isn't compressed.

  72. Choir Buoys by HermanAB · · Score: 2, Funny

    The Vatican announced that rumours of misuse of the buoy database is totally without merit...

    --
    Oh well, what the hell...
  73. Re:Nuke by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

    That's North Dakota isn't it?

  74. Kofi will get right on it. by glrotate · · Score: 1

    As soon as he finishes the ski trip.

  75. Not a big issue as of last Sunday by sammyo · · Score: 1

    No more piracy for a while now. No more pirates.

  76. Offshoring? by joshuaobrien · · Score: 2, Funny

    How long until they are replaced by floating indian boys?

  77. Re:Nuke by bob+beta · · Score: 1

    You're thinking of North Dakota.

  78. Yes, you could by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    However shooting on the Coast Guard is an act of war under US law. So, you are free to fire on them, however you have to ask yourself if you like you are armed well enough to take on the US Navy who WILL come after you. I somehow doubt you'd have what it takes to fight off a 688 or 774 attack sub.

    1. Re:Yes, you could by david614 · · Score: 1

      It would be an act of war under "international" law as well. Probably of more importance if you were out past 100 miles.

      --
      ELITISM: It's always lonely at the top. Uninvited company is rarely welcome.
  79. sure by geekoid · · Score: 1

    but once again, they can(will) retalliate.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  80. huh by geekoid · · Score: 0

    I always pictured him as a double.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  81. welll by geekoid · · Score: 1

    it turns out the Soviet targeting wasn't as good as we thought.
    Plus, you lay nukes in N.Dakota, I'm thinking S.Dakota won't be so pleasent...

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  82. According to CSI: Miami by coinreturn · · Score: 1

    On a CSI: Miami episode, I saw that they can just pull up a computer screen of all GPS receivers in the area. They found the one receiver that was also transmitting and solved the crime. Wow, isn't network TV educational?

  83. I for one by Jozer99 · · Score: 1

    I for one welcome our sonar equipted Buuy masters...

  84. Re:Need More than Just Buoys: China & Mexico by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Texas has a fairly heavily armed (and patriotic) populace. I'm not talking pea-shooters here, but military grade hardware. David Koresh stood out because he had a jesus complex and a family compound. Most people just have a gun safe and keep it quiet.

    I suspect that it would take a lot more than 90,000 soldiers to take even Texas, especially considering Fort Hood.

  85. Re:Nuke by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Funny
    Earth Quakes... No local tectonic plates
    So South Dakota just kind of floats there?
    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  86. ELINT by digitalchinky · · Score: 1

    It is not cool to call it IFF these days (identification friend or foe) - it's called SSR (secondary surveillance radar) - all aircraft, at and above the 'light' size, have them, as well as ships over a certain size. The only thing different between the military version and the civil version is a couple of pulses (when viewed on an oscilloscope) - it's really very basic. I rarely saw any Australian or NewZealand military aircraft ever use the military modes. More sophisticated technology exists anyway.

    SOSUS is still used - but it is definitely not a bloody whapping big 'net' of sensors, just a scattering of them in key areas that triangulate fixes on anything making noise. Same as the HFDF network - used to be called bullseye, name was changed to crosshair, probably something else by now.

    Hmmm.

  87. MOD PARENT UP!!! by fmaxwell · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The parent post is insightful! On 9/11, fewer than 4,000 people were killed. The tsunamis that hit this year have killed over 100,000. It shows just how impotent and insignificant the terrorists are.

    I, for one, don't want to play into the hands of the terrorists by being afraid. It's asinine that senior citizens crippled from arthritus have to remove their shoes before boarding an airplane. It's disgraceful that U.S. citizens are being subjected to pat-down searches at airports with no probable cause. It's idiotic that we are giving up our essential liberties in the so-called "war on terror." Success to the terrorists wasn't measured in a body count. It's being measured every day in the way that America has become a frightened country.

    Those who lost loved ones on 9/11 have my deepest sympathies, but we should not disgrace the memory of those who died by behaving like the terrified, paranoid people that the terrorists sought to make us.

    1. Re:MOD PARENT UP!!! by Ardillo · · Score: 1

      Remember, however insignificant 4,000 people are compared to the tsunami, they are still 4,000 people, people who had families, lives and were americans who lived, worked and touched the lives of those around them. The tsunami was a natural disater, 9/11 was a deliberate attack with malicious intent. Even one person murdered is far to many to accept and ignore.

      --
      Honor belongs to those who dare, not to the critic who sits by and stares
    2. Re:MOD PARENT UP!!! by fmaxwell · · Score: 1

      Remember, however insignificant 4,000 people are compared to the tsunami, they are still 4,000 people, people who had families, lives and were americans who lived, worked and touched the lives of those around them. The tsunami was a natural disater, 9/11 was a deliberate attack with malicious intent. Even one person murdered is far to many to accept and ignore.

      So what would you have us do? Get on TV and plead with the terrorists to please not kill any more of us? Beg for our lives? That's not how I think that we should honor our slain dead.

      The purpose of terrorism is to instill fear and we should show none. We should go about our lives in a normal manner. You don't ignore terrorists. You target them through covert intelligence operations, not through public displays of expensive defensive measures that show just how scared they have made us.

    3. Re:MOD PARENT UP!!! by Thuktun · · Score: 1

      Remember, however insignificant 4,000 people are compared to the tsunami, they are still 4,000 people, people who had families, lives and were americans who lived, worked and touched the lives of those around them.

      The same could be said for the nearly FORTY TIMES that number killed in the earthquake and tsunami. Four times *that* number die from heart disease in the USA each year alone. Lots of people die every year, every month, every day. They all "lived, worked, and touched the lives of those around them", too.

      Pointing out this fact does not imply that any of those deaths was any less important or significant.

  88. A multi billion (trillion?) dollar security system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet I still don't feel safe walking down many
    streets in our cities.

  89. BuyOS? by silence535 · · Score: 1

    At first glance I read buyos and wondered how that would track ships.

    -silence

    --
    Dyslectics of the world, untie!