Slashdot Mirror
DRM Tinkering with Intel's PXA270?
putko asks: "Intel has a new line of chips with DRM built in. This appears to be the very first DRM-enabled chip to hit the streets. This microprocessor is unlike others available, because the user doesn't have complete control over the thing, and your computer can (theoretically) betray you.
For a while now, there have been computers (IBM ThinkPad) that won't boot unless you give the password, but you could always rip out the hard drive and read it, right? With this chip, the keys and RAM are on the chip, and the flash is encrypted, so this really looks locked up tight.
Has anyone worked with this chip, and is possible to build your own device that uses the Intel Trusted Wireless Platform to protect your secrets (like your software, perhaps)?"
"I'm reminded of this due to Slashdot's recent story on the iPAQ, which uses the chip (and has some neat security features too). Somewhat surprisingly, nobody brought up the Doomsday scenarios, there. It should also be mentioned that there are companies selling incredibly tiny boards for it. Maybe you can run Linux on them?
Wouldn't it suck if the chip had the capabilities and you couldn't use them in your own projects -- e.g. if that was just reserved to big companies like Microsoft? On the other hand, if you can use the features, you might see some neat applications. Assuming you can program the DRM stuff, how do you avoid locking yourself out of the chip while developing? What extra pitfalls may developers run into using it?"
Wouldn't it suck if the chip had the capabilities and you couldn't use them in your own projects -- e.g. if that was just reserved to big companies like Microsoft? On the other hand, if you can use the features, you might see some neat applications. Assuming you can program the DRM stuff, how do you avoid locking yourself out of the chip while developing? What extra pitfalls may developers run into using it?"
I have been writing/ranting on this topic for quite sometime on Slashdot (see here, here, and here). My worst predictions are coming true. In order for DRM to work it needs to be embedded in the OS, the BIOS, and various pieces of hardware.
Yeah, there is a possibility that non-DRM'd pieces of hardware (including LinuxBIOS) will have a market but the vast majority of people want stuff to work and work w/o problems. Microsoft, Intel, Phoenix, etc, will all tell everyone that they will end viruses, worms, trojans, spyware, etc if they just use their hardware solutions.
Yeah, well, that's great and all but you won't be doing anything on the net unless you are running trusted hardware. People's arguments that an "alternative" network will show up to solve that is bullshit. Just wait till your online banking, your taxes, and your foo are all on the "secure" Internet.
Nevermind that, but it may become illegal (through creative lobby) to own and operate an unlicensed/unprotected piece of hardware. Enjoy finding an ISP that will let you connect.
While this particular CPU might only find a niche market and may very well flop completely, I have a feeling that we will start seeing more and more of this sort of product coming out of the hardware giants. Who knows, maybe my paranoia will be justified?
Whatever happened to being able to do whatever you wanted to with the computer you bought? If it's locked up for the media companies - the media companies need to provide them for free - cause I WILL NEVER buy something like this.
Joe Blow: Open warez site please
PXA270: I am sorry Joe, but I am afraid I can't do that...
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
I'm sure AMD isn't going to be too far behind with this.
... because this is nothing new.
First of all, this is an *EMBEDDED* processor, not an x86-class CPU. It may be used in PDAs and the like, but it is not going to be running your desktop anytime soon.
Secondly, embedded devices with encrypted onboard flash are nothing new - they've been around for years.
www.eFax.com are spammers
...don't buy it. If you feel your personal liberties being threatened vote with your wallet and just stop bitching about it.
Yeah, I had all of that info you're looking for... but I forgot the password on that system ;)
Real programmers use "copy con program.exe"
More to the point.. how do you hack this good for nothing piece of shit?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Can anyone say 'Clipper Chip'?
Remember what happened to that brilliant idea? This is it in a new guise, this time reborn to lock-in traditional media.
Never fear, either too many objections will be raised to make it viable in the marketplace, or some smart person will figure out how it tics...
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
Intel just doesn't get it. Someone at intel must have heavily invested in AMD.
"brxref
Trusted Boot ROM - will ensure that the OS being booted is the one that the manufacturer installed. No more installing NetBSD on your pocketsized wireless gizmo.
Media DRM - files can be created to work only with the OS, ROM and disk in the unit, and only for a specifed length of time.
The features seem to be directed at wireless carriers and content providers, to prevent unauthorized use of their networks and content. So, if you don't like it, use other vendors.
If that the case, I'll find another "free" CPU to use or leave the country.
Seriously, it's bad enough when Windows XP locks you out for adding a memory module and you have to re-install the entire computer. I don't want my CPU locking me out if my roommate checks his email on the web browser and plays a bootleg MP3 file that someone sent him. If you own the hardware, it should be yours entirely.
Chewie does not get a medal. Come on, George. Can a Wookie get a medal?
We should be wary of *any* move towards turning computers from our servants into our prison guards.
I wouldn't get too worked up, it's just another exercise in futility from the DRM people. You think they'd have learned by now that any programmable computer is inherently hackable. Any DRM can be removed or forged, the system would have no way to tell the difference between my home movies and a pirated copy of Pirates of Silicon Valley. Just as an example, what is to stop me from running an emulator or virtual machine, and then playing my DRM free media on such a system? How would it know it was running untrusted code if all it saw was javaw.exe?
How many reading this want to make a bet that their phone is drm crippled? If its a really nice one my guess is 90% that everything is encrypted and locked.
After all why should the cell phone companies give up their monopoly as being the gatekeeper to all software including pim's and games?
http://saveie6.com/
"For a while now, there have been computers (IBM ThinkPad) that won't boot unless you give the password, but you could always rip out the hard drive and read it, right?"
If the password for the hard drive is set, you won't be able to move the drive to another system or it will look like the drive is dead. If you do know the master password and try it in another system, I believe it will wipe out the drive, it's pretty secure, and the main reason I use ThinkPads.
With this there is another big reason to boycott Intel. Other reasons are:
- Most AMD processors give you quite a bit more performance than Intel CPUs
- Intel continues to pollute the environment with chemicals from chip production while AMD has invested alot to reclaim and/or properly dispose chemicals, not just at their Dresden fab, and is focusing on energy efficient processes as well as buildings.
- Intel is in bed with Microsoft whereas AMD is much more neutral and supports open-source projects e.g. development of gcc.
It happens that I am supposed to get quotes and purchase PCs and workstations for several labs at a well known Massachusetts research institution, over 380 machines total. So far AMD looks much better in almost all aspects and Intel's involvement in dubious DRM technologies now helps me to make the final decision. AMD simply rules!
Microsoft requires all PC sold with Windows XYZ to use a Trusted Boot ROM. The Trusted Boot ROM verifies the Windows license is valid before booting. Whoops, you mean your PC won't boot Linux because it doesn't have a valid Windows license. What a unforseen side effect!
I disagree with the assessment that "all DRM is bad". While it can and most certainly cause a lot of hell for many people, it can be used for A Good Thing.
Here is my vision (discussed previously):
Someone takes a chip like this and builds a set top box. This box plugs into a broadband connection. It contains unbreakable DRM. The box is provided to consumers at no cost and does not cost them anything if they do not use it. The box checks for content on the internet. It finds popular content and downloads it. This content is available to the end user for a nominal fee (say, $0.12 per hour).
Since Big Media does not want to relinquish their stranglehold, they do not participate at first. But the little, independent producers from all over the world come up with very creative content and many end users purchase it. The popularity of the little guys starts displacing Big Media. So Big Media starts participating. Because people no longer need a cable or satellite provider, they discontinue service.
Because Big Media is now competing with potentially millions of other talented independent studios, the cream rises to the top. Big Media is no longer as big. The little guys are no longer as small. The Evil Cable and Satellite Monopolies are no more.
It sounds like a good story to me.
More
DRM - big brother's kid sister.
I was amused to see that in a recent interview with Richard M. Stallman he referred to DRM as Digital RESTRICTIONS Management.
Although I'm not a big fan of spin, the current political climate makes renaming things with misleading names a necessity. When you say "Digital RESTRICTIONS Management", it makes it fairly clear that it's a technology aimed at limiting personal liberties.
P.S. Yes, I know this is a repost, but...
Signatures are a waste of bandwi (buffering...)
Maybe, but not if I stick the lid on.
I love vague analogies!
--- Need web hosting?
My computer will stop being a yes man. Who wants a computer that obeys its master all the time? That's no way to have a relationship.
AMD Alchemy(TM) Au1200(TM) Processoro ductInformation/0,,50_2330_6625_12409%5E12410,00.h tml?redir=PCAU04
http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolutions/Pr
Oh, wait...
Built-in decryption hardware for digital rights management (DRM)
Does that mean you won't buy AMD chips either???
#include "standard_disclaimer.h"
The company I work for has been working on a PXA270 board for a while now. I seriously doubt this chip will flop, since it's a MUCH NEEDED speed boost to Intel's ARM CPU line for embedded/handheld devices.
:)
Besides that, it's a great chip! 600+ MHz, low power like their previous PXA CPUs and plenty of features.
This DRM feature is just another optional feature for designers to use. Right now, I don't see any real reason most designers would use such a feature set. They have no incentive to just lock-down a system willy-nilly. It won't generate any new sales.
And yes, we are running Linux on this chip.
Law #1: If a bad guy can persuade you to run his program on your computer, it's not your computer anymore
Law #2: If a bad guy can alter the operating system on your computer, it's not your computer anymore
Law #3: If a bad guy has unrestricted physical access to your computer, it's not your computer anymore
You see, "bad guy" is a value judgement - there is no moral lodestone that classifies intentions here.
More to the point - These statements are JUST AS TRUE if you substitute the words "good guy".
Or "Microsoft", or "Sun Microsystems", or "The Department of the Interior", or "your mommy"...
This technology is an enabler for an elite who see themselves as the "good guy", and are doing all of this for what is believed to be our protection.
You can't win this - in the long run, anymore than you will be able vote on paper in the U.S. Say goodbye to your clever toys.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
I'm a developer for these chips, and I have to say, this is much ado about nothing.
This has been said before - the primary goal is to get the board part count down.
The primary goal is to get the board part count down.
Let me reiterate once more: The primary goal is to get the board part count down.
With this chip, the only thing that it means is that you don't need o include a flash chip on the board.
The system will still be reflashable through a JTAG interface - just as any other device with flash connected to a CPU would be. In that respect, this machine is no more holding us "hostage" than any other previously released iPAQ or Zaurus.
I thereby declare you, sir, to be talking out of your ass.
Second, the "security" features on the chip were not specified by Intel, they were specified by the ARM consortium. ARM merely establishes the uniform copy protection standard. A vendor may include it in their ARM offerings at their option.
These processors are targeted for use in "smart" phones. The copy protection features were demanded by the cell phone carriers, which in turn were demanded by their "content" partners who are looking to sell -- or worse, rent -- you copy-protected ringtones, UI skins, music clips, and movie previews for usurious sums.
Personally, I'd stick with the "stupid" phones for the time being and avoid all this childish rubbish.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
How about leaving out the DRM circutry? That sounds like a pretty effective and easy way to get the part count down.
What you need is an open environment that looks just like this chip to the software, but has hooks into it you can use to pry open that hood again. I have to believe that the only way to stop this emulation would be through legislation, or Intel filing defensive patents against the way Macrovision does to try and protect they video protection garbage<- <- <- <- <- <- <- <- systems.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
It actually says on the product page; supported OSes: Windows and Linux 2.6.7
But I don't see consumers deciding that this is necessary in the reasonable term.
The consumers are not deciding anything on that matter. TC is being implemented in hardware right now and if that goes on at the current pace you will, in a few years. have a hard time buying a new PC without builtin TC chip.
The consumers will be conditioned to use it by the usual FUD strategies.
"Secure" onlineshopping/onlinebanking will suddenly no longer mean "SSL required" but "TC crypto required". Internet Explorer will threaten the user with appropiate warning messages ("Oh, this website is only using SSL, you really should look for a more secure shopping site") and, just as today, it will all seem normal to the uneducated user. The masses will follow because they don't know any better.
We can all only hope that these efforts fail miserably or I foresee a big stinkin' mess 10yrs down the road...
Hopefully enough people and the mainstream media realize in time what they are attempting to do but I fear Microsoft's money will silence too many otherwise critical journalists.