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The Coming Expensing of Employee Stock Options

An anonymous reader writes "This accounting change will reverberate loudly throughout geekdom. "Users of financial statements...expressed to the FASB their concerns that (the current handling of stock options) results in financial statements that do not faithfully represent the economic transactions affecting the issuer, namely, the receipt and consumption of employee services in exchange for equity instruments. Financial statements that do not faithfully represent those economic transactions can distort the issuer's reported financial condition and results of operations, which can lead to the inappropriate allocation of resources in the capital markets." Taken from FASB Statement of Financial Accounting Standards No. 123 (Dec 2004). A FAQ has been published as well." Yes; the data is from 12/16/04, but this will be a huge change in how tech companies work.

222 comments

  1. Stock options? by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's so 1998, man.

    Actually, with the tech implosion back in 2001, this affects technology companies less than we would expect. It was put in place to catch companies that were writing off massive amounts of tax through the issuance of options. However, with fewer companies doling them out, and employees less enthused about receiving them, this new regulation affects the old bricks and mortar companies more than those in the tech sector.

    1. Re:Stock options? by eyeball · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, with the tech implosion back in 2001, this affects technology companies less than we would expect.

      Dot-com era tech companies aren't the only ones that used stock options as incentives. Our fortune 500 company of over 200,000 employees has traditionally distributed stock options to its management employees as part of a bonus package. This year they won't, but it remains to be seen if we'll get cash, straight-out stock, or a screw-job.

      --

      _______
      2B1ASK1
    2. Re:Stock options? by stinerman · · Score: 1

      Smart money is on "screw-job".

    3. Re:Stock options? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      This year they won't, but it remains to be seen if we'll get cash, straight-out stock, or a screw-job.
      Reallly? I didn't know it was legal to offer such things. What a great present to lonely, sex-starved geeks! How can I join your firm?
    4. Re:Stock options? by Peldor · · Score: 1
      Our fortune 500 company of over 200,000 employees has traditionally distributed stock options to its management employees as part of a bonus package. This year they won't, but it remains to be seen if we'll get cash, straight-out stock, or a screw-job.

      Can I put $10 on the screw-job?

    5. Re:Stock options? by StillNeedMoreCoffee · · Score: 1

      As to giving management Stock Options I think that probably represents a screw-job for the non-management employees. When I see the "value added" from a lot of management and the "value given" against the real work of the company it is the creative worker, the producer (who often does not know that the management is getting so much or so much that is hidden) that is getting exploited and getting the screw-job. And when they fire people to make a management cost savings goal to get a bonus just to re-post a month later for the same position I get particularly pissed. Thats what happened to my wife and her job.

      It may be time to level the playing field in those situations.

      As to the dot com's there with all employees sharing it did include everyone in the enterprise and brought a smile to my face to see (my wifes previous job, but they ended the ESOP 6mo. after she joined).

      So as a tool to include all the employees in the enterprise, these new rule will ruin that. But will fix another problem with management/executive compensation way out of line with value added.

    6. Re:Stock options? by 4of12 · · Score: 1

      As to giving management Stock Options I think that probably represents a screw-job for the non-management employees.

      Yes, typically. It allows pumping the next few quarters' earnings by cutting costs of research, development, quality control, etc. that will doom the company in the longer term.

      Which is why I advocate that companies make sure the options get exercised many years out into the future, gradually, so that the managers take a longer term view and even hire qualified successors instead of friends/relatives/glossy MBA's.

      I wish we had a way of insuring longer term outlooks in our government, too. Something like tieing the pension and tax rates for congresspersons to the deficit five years from now. Tying military service requirements and law enforcement intrusion measures triple strength into members of the executive branch of government.

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
    7. Re:Stock options? by AmericanGladiator · · Score: 1

      Actually, Intel (I consider them a tech company) is one of the worst companies in terms of doling out stock options. They cried endlessly when they found out that the SEC and FASB wanted to switch to expensing stock options. They realized that the game of stealing from the shareholders to pay their employees could be over. What I hate is that they claim they won't be able to attract talent any more. What a crock, they can still give as much stock as they want to their employees, they just can't hide the dilution anymore. A great reform - kudos to the SEC and FASB.

    8. Re:Stock options? by SunFan · · Score: 1

      This year they won't, but it remains to be seen if we'll get cash, straight-out stock, or a screw-job.

      The question is whether you have to tell your spouse about option 3.

      --
      -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
    9. Re:Stock options? by esanbock · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind this is the same company that keeps claiming that increases in H-1B is needed because there's an apparent shortage of engineers. Last time the IEEE checked, unemployment in engineering is the highest since the 1970s.

    10. Re:Stock options? by Razzak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It was put in place to catch companies that were writing off massive amounts of tax through the issuance of options.

      Ehh, sort of. You don't "write off" options. You don't pay anything for options, the shareholders end up eating the cost, so there's nothing to write off. Salary, under $2million, is tax deductible so you would write that off. This was imposed so that people could more easily view a company's true earnings, factoring in work done by employees that was compensated by the shareholders (via options). Here's a quick ridiculously simplified example.

      Company A makes $10 million in revenue and has $5million in salaries, blah blah blah has a net income of $5 million this year.

      Company B makes $10 million in revenue and has $2.5million in salaries, thus having a net income of $7.5million. They also granted $5million in options@$3 which were sold @$3.5, resulting in $2.5million dollars of compensation for companies paid (basically) by the shareholders via the stock price.

      With the new rules, companies will be forced to estimate the value of options on the date of grant. Therefore, Company B will have a net income of somewhere around $6million to $7million depending on what the estimated value of those stock options are.

      To answer the question: "Why don't they just wait to see exactly how much the options were exercised at and account for the actual cost of the options?"

      Three reasons.

      1) People claim it's unfair to companies who perform well, as they'll have higher stock option expenses. More importantly is point 2).

      2) It's a serious pain to go back through the last 10 years of accounting statements every quarter and re-do all 10 years. How would you like it if you were following a company and every quarter you had to re-evaluate all 10 years of that. It's just not feasible.

      3) When you estimate the grant of options, it's what those options were worth at the time (or their "fair market value"). If your stock was $1 and it went up to $100, it's not fair for the company to expense all $99 of that increase, because no one knew it was going to do that.

      There are two drawbacks to expensing.

      1) Companies whose stock drops and sees no expense from options will still have to expense their estimated value when they issued them. (Which is fair, because if their stock skyrockets they still only expense the estimated value).

      2) Depending on how expensing is set up, there may be a lot of room for manipulation of the numbers. If companies have too much control over the assumptions that go into expensing formulas, the estimates may be overly optimistic and misleading. For example, on a 10 year option, if you estimate that most will exercise that option within 2 years, that seriously reduces the values of those options. There is a difference between Binomial model and the Black-Scholes model, which I won't go into here. But FASB needs to seriously address this issue.

      razzakjallow@yahoo.com

    11. Re:Stock options? by BoomerSooner · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      FASB is run by a bunch of dumb asses who need to come up with new shit every year to justify their stupid government job.

      Tax Code:
      Income (Money paid for services, money selling expensed items)
      -Expenses (Screw depreciation, etc. Immediate for everything)
      ---------
      Net Income
      - Tax Rate
      ----------
      Profit

      How fucking hard does a tax system need to be. As a small business owner it's a god damn joke. Mind you I have a degree in Finance and I only needed 2 classes for a degree in Accounting as well. After working for Andersen and seeing all the BS that happens in corporate america we need to vastly simplify the system and be done with it. Quit with the fucking subsidies for the GE, Microsoft and Ford's of the world. This country is too deep into the bullshit we've created. I mean sending people to PRISON for copying some fucking bits? Unbeliveable.

    12. Re:Stock options? by PierceLabs · · Score: 1
      While very different in nature and purpose, the potential gain that makes an employee share option valuable is similar to the potential gain that makes a lottery ticket valuable. An individual buys a lottery ticket because it gives the holder the right to potentially receive valuable assets (generally cash) in the future. The payment for the lottery ticket is similar to the option premium paid (cash or employee services) for the share option. Even if the probability of winning those valuable assets is extremely low, the lottery ticket still has value until the winning number is known (at which point the winning ticket's value increases, and a losing ticket's value decreases to zero). In contrast to a typical lottery ticket, which is valid for one drawing only, a share option is valid for multiple drawings (that is, each day a share option is outstanding can be viewed as an independent drawing because the value of the share can change, making the share option more or less valuable).


      When I can start writing off my lottery tickets, THEN corporations should be able to write off theirs. :)
    13. Re:Stock options? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, look forward to a screw job.

    14. Re:Stock options? by Repton · · Score: 1

      Are you aware that you have just admitted on Slashdot to being a manager?

      --
      Repton.
      They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
    15. Re:Stock options? by tarpy · · Score: 1

      Which is why I advocate that companies make sure the options get exercised many years out into the future...

      I totally agree with this part. From what I can see the new FASB rule causes the company to expense the option IMMEDIATELY. But having worked at three companies (one start-up, two already public when I joined) my stock options vested over a period of no less than 3 years.

      If the powers that be require companies to vest the options, at least allow them to spread the cost over the period it takes for the options to vest.

    16. Re:Stock options? by anopres · · Score: 1

      For being only 2 classes away from a degree in accounting, it's hard to believe that you don't know the FASB is not a government agency and it has almost no impact on taxes for most industries.

      --
      Strong Mad - 2008: "I PRESIDENT!"
    17. Re:Stock options? by unitron · · Score: 1
      "...it's hard to believe that you don't know the FASB is not a government agency..."

      Well, he did say that he had worked for Andersen( and they were such a great accounting company that they no longer exist).

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    18. Re:Stock options? by unitron · · Score: 1
      "...the game of stealing from the shareholders to pay their employees..."

      Yeah! How dare those employees expect to get paid? And by the people who own the company for which they work, no less!

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    19. Re:Stock options? by AmericanGladiator · · Score: 1

      Ummmm. There's always the standard way to pay employees - from earnings. I don't think you really understood my point at all. You can still pay your employees in stock, too. You just have to expense that just as you would normal pay. The former method merely allowed the company to "hide" the cost to shareholders. You need to understand that shareholders are the owners. If you own shares of Intel - great. You should be happy to see the change in accounting practices. Read the Motley Fool online articles. They've been talking about this issue for a long time. I honestly can't understand anyone who would oppose this change and I've been a tech worker (Masters in EE) for 12 years.

    20. Re:Stock options? by unitron · · Score: 1

      Of course I know that the shareholders are the owners (although there are companies where management may need reminding of that from time to time). My point was that employee pay comes out of the company's pocket which means that it comes out of the pockets of the owners of the company (the stockholders), and this is true no matter how you do the accounting. What exactly is it that's being stolen from the shareholders?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    21. Re:Stock options? by AmericanGladiator · · Score: 1

      The difference is this: Under the old accounting practices, the company did not expense the options that were granted. All they did was include some small byline buried deep in some obscure SEC filing that some options were granted. No money value was assigned and it did not get accounted for in the very highly-read income & expense report. The vast majority of shareholders never realized that they were being diluted out of money. (NOTE: I am not saying don't pay engineers what they are worth, just be up front about it!) Under the new accounting practices, a fair value must be assigned to these options and added to the expense column in the income statement. This insures that investors know more about the internal workings of a company and how much is going out in incentives. A smart investor can then better decide if pay and incentives are under control or out of control and therefore decide whether to invest or not. In addition, you don't have to think about the share dilution, because that has already been accounted for in the expensing of the options.

    22. Re:Stock options? by unitron · · Score: 1

      An excellent explanation and I commend it to any of my fellow moderators who haven't commented in this thread.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  2. Eh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Am I the only one who has no idea what the hell that summary just said?

    Can someone please translate it into plain english for those of us who either A) have never had stock options or B) are just too dumb (me perhaps) to decipher what was said?

    1. Re:Eh. by acvh · · Score: 4, Informative

      In the past, companies could issue stock options to employees essentially at no cost to themselves. This would tend to understate employment costs, making them look more profitable than they really were. In addition, the exercise of these options would dilute the value of the stock held by shareholders.

      Now they have to expense them using "fair value", which is what an investor would currently pay for an equivalent option. This, in theory, will more effectively represent employment costs.

    2. Re:Eh. by bulkmailforyou · · Score: 4, Informative
      Bottom line is: all employess will get less stock options than before. Since they are now expensed, it affects the companies bottom line. Options will now be given less frequently, in smaller amounts or even no longer at all. This all depends on what the company wants, but this gives no reason to increase options.

      If you didnt get stock options before, you still get none.

      Investors are affected, since over time the talent leaves a company and the company loses innovation and just maintains their current product.

      Accountants in find new creative ways to fake out the investors. This still has no real advantage

      Take my post with a grain of salt - as you can tell I am against the practice.

    3. Re:Eh. by EyeSavant · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah all you used to have to do is make a note in your accounts about the number of shares you have issued. I.e. do nothing.

      It also allowed a fun little scam in that the tax man allowed you to expense your stock options and subtract it from your profits before paying tax. This is why MS and others spent several years not paying tax. What they were actually doing is NOT MAKING MONEY. All their profits were going straight to the employees, and noone noticed as it was coming back in as they were issuing extra shares. A lot of MS' cash pile came from selling shares.

      Basically there were two very different ways of acocunting for the same thing. If you pay your employees in cash, then issue extra shares to have the money to pay for it, it comes off your bottom line as it should. But give them cheap shares instead and it doesn't. The end result is the same, x extra shares issued, y extra money to empoyees, but one means you are in trouble, the other is a sign of a really healthy company. Until now. It is a good change.

    4. Re:Eh. by jj_johny · · Score: 3, Informative
      I really enjoy the folks out there that talk about the expensing as though its going to change everything. The reality was the stock options were used as employee comp but not counted as such. And I don't know of too many geeks who really understood the value of them when they got them. So when I got a boatload of options for joining a little company that was going to hit it big, I thought about it being a 10% bonus or something like that. It turned out that over the 5 1/2 years that I worked there I was paid (yes it said so on my W-2) 8 times more in exercised stock options than in my salary. (Granted my salary did not keep pace since I was in the money in my options.)

      Anyway, how does it make sense that a company paid me 7 figures for a couple of years when I was making high 5 figures. They had to be expensed, it was a crazy situation where your compensation really revolved around luck, when you got hired, what company you went to work for and how many options they gave you.

    5. Re:Eh. by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      "Investors are affected, since over time the talent leaves a company and the company loses innovation and just maintains their current product. "

      Where will the "talent" go - to another company? They won't be giving any better deals.

      As for investors, they get an instant benefit - the stock they hold or will buy more accurately reflects the value of the company.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    6. Re:Eh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the summary had been written in a way that was meaningful to EVERYONE not just someone with experience in financial matters, the aforementioned post would not have been needed.

      You know there was a time when asking for an explination on Slashdot did not open ones self to bashing by anyone who deemed themself wiser than the poster.

    7. Re:Eh. by packrat0x · · Score: 1

      "Users of financial statements...expressed to the FASB their concerns that (the current handling of stock options) results in financial statements that do not faithfully represent the economic transactions affecting the issuer, namely, the receipt and consumption of employee services in exchange for equity instruments.

      "Investors" say the old method does not accurately show the cost of employee pay and benfits.

      Financial statements that do not faithfully represent those economic transactions can distort the issuer's reported financial condition and results of operations, which can lead to the inappropriate allocation of resources in the capital markets."


      Inaccurate financial statements are bad. Investors may put money into cruddy companies.

      --
      227-3517
    8. Re:Eh. by RetiredMidn · · Score: 2, Interesting
      In the past, companies could issue stock options to employees essentially at no cost to themselves. This would tend to understate employment costs, making them look more profitable than they really were. In addition, the exercise of these options would dilute the value of the stock held by shareholders.

      Except that a stock option is not really a "cost"; it does not deplete the company's assets to issue them. If any dilution occurs, it is when shares are issued and/or set aside for the purpose of issuing stock options, and, as I understand it, this is something the shareholders have to explicitly approve and is therefore duly noted in the company's financial records.

      Now they have to expense them using "fair value", which is what an investor would currently pay for an equivalent option. This, in theory, will more effectively represent employment costs.

      My only problem with this is that, as the FAQ points out, there is not really an exact equivalent available to the general investor. Which means the calculation of the "value" of an option is something of a fiction, which is not accounting as I thought I understood it (and I never thought I did...).

      I would have considered it more accurate to regulate how shares that are set aside for options are accounted for. If I'm worried about options, I would be able to figure out how vulnerable the stock price is to sudden shifts in ownership due to option exercises, just like I can figure that out based on company reporting of large blocks of outright ownership.

    9. Re:Eh. by EyeSavant · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except that a stock option is not really a "cost"; it does not deplete the company's assets to issue them. If any dilution occurs, it is when shares are issued and/or set aside for the purpose of issuing stock options

      Not true. At the risk of repeating myself from my other post. Compare two cases. Company share price is $100 dollars a share

      Case 1 : Company issues 100 extra shares at $100 (total $10,000), gives $5,000 cash bonus to employees, keeps other $5,000

      Case 2 : Company gives 100 share options to employee with a strike price of $50. Employee pays $5,000, then sells shares for $10,000

      In both cases 100 extra shares are issued, the company gets $5,000 and the employee gets $5,000. Yet the accounting treatment is completely different. In case 1 they have to make a note that they have issed 100 new shares, and take a hit of $5,000 additional expenses. Under the previous rules all they had to do was make a note that they had issued 100 extra shares. The company IS losing money as they are not getting full value for the extra shares issued. The real loser are the other share holders. with the diluted value of their holding. Say a company has 100 shares outstanding share price $100. The company is worth $10,000. I own 10 shares, value $1,000. Now they give the share options above out. The company is now worth $15,000, the value before plus the $5,000 extra cash they made. But I have only 5% of the company, not the 10% I had before. So my shareholding is now only worth $750. Clearly in the real world the numbers are different, and it can take a while for the market value to converge with the "real" value, but the principle applies. Giving out share options is an expense, they should be treated as such. Clearly accuratly costing these things is damn hard (there are rather a lot of books on how much share options should be worth). But it is only real money going out when the option is exercised so it *should* all come out in the wash. There are lots of things that are hard to put a price on in accounting, where they just guess until they know the real number, so there is no real problem with that.

    10. Re:Eh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      People have been warning anyone who would listen for several years, but most were on the take and their greed wouldn't let them see the true cost of this graft. Bill Parish, and accountant who first made public noise about this, and has been savaged by Microsoft's PR machine and sychophants every since, details the scam here:

      http://www.billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html
      o r here:
      http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/micros oftfrau d.html

      "3) Convincing Employees to Take Less Real Wages: Microsoft aggressively markets stock options to new employees in an effort to take wage expenses off the books. They also know that they can pocket the exercise price employees will be required to pay to take ownership of the stock. What also seems clear is that Microsoft is still aggressively marketing its stock option program to new recruits. To quote an email received, "I am about to begin employment at Microsoft and the stock option was the selling factor. Does your article overall state that it will be bad for me and will fail me in my retirement planning?" Is Microsoft fulfilling its disclosure obligations to its own employees, especially those that have put their entire 401K balance in Microsoft stock? This explains how 22 percent of Microsoft's massive cash balance has actually come from its own employees in the form of them prepaying their own wages through stock option exercise prices."

      This is only one aspect of the total scam which that article details.

    11. Re:Eh. by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1
      Investors are affected, since over time the talent leaves a company and the company loses innovation and just maintains their current product.

      no problem in today's high tech sector.

      you mean the outsourced folks who NOW have our jobs now will leave their jobs because of this new law?

      they live in 3rd world countries with a lower standard of life than here in the US. stock options are NOT what they are going to lose sleep over.

      bascially, this new law is like an admission that company loyalty is 100% dead. we already can't compete for jobs on our own homeland anymore; why should we be surprised that no more stock options come our way?

      /welcome to the disenfranchisement of the american worker

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    12. Re:Eh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True they might not get a better deal at another company, but they won't be getting a worse deal, but get to work on something new and interesting. I thought the idea was to keep people from bouncing from one company to the next since a lot is invested in training a replacement and not losing knowledge.

    13. Re:Eh. by ancientreader · · Score: 1

      Except that a stock option is not really a "cost"; it does not deplete the company's assets to issue them. If any dilution occurs, it is when shares are issued and/or set aside for the purpose of issuing stock options... First of all, many companies buy back their shares (at market prices) to then reissue when employees use the options. This costs the company real money. Second, the company loses out on taking in cash by accepting a discounted purchase price instead of market value when employees use the options. Cash is most definitely "depleted" here.

    14. Re:Eh. by johnnyb · · Score: 1

      "Except that a stock option is not really a "cost"; it does not deplete the company's assets to issue them."

      Two things: (1) you cannot give infinite options, so it is indeed somewhat like a cost, and (2) you are giving options in exchange for work. Without a valuation on the options, you don't have an accurate measure what the cost of your employees are. If I had a highly increasing stock, and I had employees that would just work for options, could I honestly say that my labor cost was zero? If my stock didn't continue to go up, I'd have to pay them the equivalent of what they valued their options as. Therefore, if someone is reading your financial statements, they wouldn't know the ongoing cost of labor, and assume it to be much smaller than it really is.

    15. Re:Eh. by Oblio · · Score: 1

      > the value of an option is a fiction

      So what... I mean, we are talking about book value here. Accounting is all about fiction. Think about depreciation, or rounding accounts.

      I'm not saying you are wrong, but its just an accounting method. It will always be an approximation of reality.

      --
      Pax -- Ob
    16. Re:Eh. by RetiredMidn · · Score: 1
      My problem with your example is that, as I understand it, new shares are not magically created when options are granted, so there is no "invisible" dilution of value; shares are issued (if necessary) and set aside for options by a vote of the shareholders. This is a explicit "dilution" event no different (in its effect on current shareholders) from new shares issued to raise capital.

      So, unless I am wrong about my assumption that shares are only created and reserved for options explicitly by shareholder vote, I assert that there is no invisible dilution of value.

      Now, I would expect a net expense to be recorded when an employee exercises his/her options, which means the company is now selling shares out of the option reserve for less than then-market value. This seems to be a more accurate measure of the ebb and flow of value.

      As to the extent of exposure that current shareholders have to the stock price being influenced by option exercises, I put this in the same category of a company noting substantial holdings by single investors, which I see noted in quarterly reports all the time. I would have no issue with making the rules for reporting outstanding option obligations clearly, but this strikes me as more realistic than recording an expense at a point in time when nothing is really changing hands.

    17. Re:Eh. by LaCosaNostradamus · · Score: 1

      Investors are affected, since over time the talent leaves a company and the company loses innovation and just maintains their current product.

      Even if that's the trend, the "talent" will have to go to companies that don't issue stock options (because if they did, they'd have to expense them, thus drive off talent). Since stock options are apparently functioning as talent incentive according to your tone, the talent will be obtaining other incentives from the companies they end up in. Those incentives will tend to be expensed.

      Fella, it seems to me that some sort of equality is hiding in your argument. I'm unconvinced therefore from said argument that expensing stock options is a bad thing.

      --
      [You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
    18. Re:Eh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Investors are affected, since over time the talent leaves a company and the company loses innovation and just maintains their current product.

      I don't think the lack of stock grants will really cause a migration in itself, since there won't be potential hiring employers giving out larger stock option grants. It may cause fewer employees to have "golden handcuffs", causing them to stay at a particular job. However, someone staying just to wait until their options vest, generally isn't the most passionate employee anyway.

      Hopefully this will cause total compensation to come in a more tangible form, though I doubt it.

    19. Re:Eh. by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      The company IS losing money as they are not getting full value for the extra shares issued.

      Bull. If I want to sell my car for $5000, a buyer comes along and we negotiate the prices to $4000, have I eaten a $1000 loss? No. The item was only worth $4000, because thats the lowest price i would sell at and the highest the buyer would purchase at. It takes a buyer AND seller to determine the value of something.

      Since this is stock (and not something of real value anyway), what has the company lost? The employee paid to the company $50 it didn't have before. The fact that others are paying 100 is moot. Besides, the employee could then sell the stock for $100, making 50 in profit, and now the share is worth $100 again.

    20. Re:Eh. by MrWa · · Score: 1
      Take my post with a grain of salt - as you can tell I am against the practice.

      Why are you against the practice? What will entice employees to leave that would not have done so before?

      As an investor, this change is good - better than just ignoring the options all together.

      As employee, this change is good - less likely to get options that are underwater for years at a time.

      As an accountant, this change is a nightmare - how do you *really* value options??

    21. Re:Eh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      This is old news since MS no longer uses stock options for employees. In MS's defense, lots of employees got rich from their options. Compare this to the thousands of companies who gave worthless options to employees.

    22. Re:Eh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If companies were really that concerned about losing key employees they could post a bond equal to the employee's salary for 5 years and have them sign a 5 year contract. They won't do that (except for executives perhaps) because for the most part, companies only give lip service to employee retention.

    23. Re:Eh. by mbsurf · · Score: 1

      "And I don't know of too many geeks who really understood the.."

      It can't be! Geeks that don't understand! What is the world coming to?

    24. Re:Eh. by John+Hurliman · · Score: 1

      Your assumption is incorrect. A company can set aside shares when the options contract is written up, or buy shares off the market (shareholders) when the options are exercised, or print up new stock certificates at any time (called a split). The number of shares increases without changing the total amount of shareholders equity, effectively diluting the stock price. That's one of the reasons this is a difficult situation, because of the uncertainty. A company can take any of these actions, and the stock may or may not ever hit it's strike price.

    25. Re:Eh. by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      The company can not simply create more shares without shareholder approval. The company can purchase shares on the open market now or at time of exercise, or hold on to existing shares already owned and dole them out at exercise, or buy back the options at an agreed upon price, or buy options on the open market to limit risk of exercise, etc, etc. None of these increase the total number of shares in the market. However, they do make the stock worth less to the investor because of the risk of exercise. The amount of the risk depends upon the strategy the company decided upon above. Stock Market theory says that this information is already figured into the stock price.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    26. Re:Eh. by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      The point is that the company, in order to sell that share of stock to the employee, has to buy the share at the market price, unless it already owned the share.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    27. Re:Eh. by firewood · · Score: 1

      Note that expenses related to profit/loss and stock dilution are seperate lines items in a companies shareholders reports.

      The exercise of a stock option is not a cash expense, but actually cash income, as the employee still needs to pay the company the strike price when exercising the options. Now the company does forego potential income by not selling its option stock at the market price; but reporting this loss of potential income as both an expense and as a stock dilution is double reporting the cost to the shareholders, since just the dilution fully accounts for even giving stock away with no option price (to a chartiy, for instance).

      In order to avoid this double accounting, stock options should only be reported as stock dilutions or potential stock dilutions, and income (from payment of the strike price), and not also as an expense.

    28. Re:Eh. by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Instead of just writing an option, the company could buy them on the open market and THEN give them to the employee. Basis price? Whatever they paid. Company's loss reported? Basis Price + transaction fee.
      If they write the option themselves, the only way to value it would be by comparison, and out of the money LEAPs are extremely illiquid, so recent sales prices may not be trustworthy. You could split the bid and ask, but those are probably not all that reliable either. You'd have to have recent time stamps on the bid and ask.
      I'm sure some 500 page manual will cover how to properly account for these options.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    29. Re:Eh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who no longer get stock options will have to switch jobs to get paid that's all. Stock options are a way to lie to employees as well as lie to investors. I'm glad they're being expensed - even though I've consistently been able to cash them in for money, and this means a money cut. I never liked working at this dump anyway.

    30. Re:Eh. by ??? · · Score: 1

      And what would you do with options that don't have a dilutive effect (those executed with treasury stock rather than issuing new stock for ex.)?

  3. Isn't this... by Xuranova · · Score: 0

    old news? "Oh god we can't inflate our earnings anymore." It'll be ok guys, just calm down with the options a bit...

    --
    "There is no real right or wrong, just what the majority accepts at the time."
  4. Get it now by ciscoeng · · Score: 0

    All Slashdotters who post before 10 a.m. get non-qualified stock options. Get a piece of blank paper, write a number on it, and there you go.

  5. Huh? by GigsVT · · Score: 1

    Seems like it would affect investors that read financial statements more than geeks.

    The article seems to imply that all companies that use stock options do so to basically lie to thier investors, and once they must account for them in a more obvious way, geeks will be paid less.

    Pretty blatent bias, when the article notes 750 companies are already in voluntary compliance with the new rules.

    --
    I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    1. Re:Huh? by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      The article seems to imply that

      I meant the slashdot blurb, of course. The article is fine.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:Huh? by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      >The article seems to imply that all companies that use stock options do so to basically lie to thier investors, and once they must account for them in a more obvious way, geeks will be paid less.
      I don't know that they are lying necessarily. As you say, it could be more obvious, but the money for the options is still coming from somewhere, and the money to buy the stock and sell it to the employees if the options are exercised also clearly comes from somewhere. The biggest factor is probably time, as you could issue an option that is deep in the omney and is almost certain to be exercised at a huge loss to the company, but may be several years out before it expires.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    3. Re:Huh? by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      That money generally comes from the stockholders directly, it causes dilution of everyone's stock when employee options are exercised.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  6. Who Gets Stock Options? by NardofDoom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hell, I'd just like to be paid overtime.

    --
    You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
  7. Forget the option just give us the stock by bulkmailforyou · · Score: 1
    If they have to expense it anyway, just give us the straight stock. Then we can deal with less but still get a nice bonus and still gives us incentive for the company value to go up.

    Still, we now have less incentive to stay at the same place since we have a much smaller stake in the company. This can be a good thing or a bad thing.

    1. Re:Forget the option just give us the stock by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      IANAA

      And this is how I understand it would work in the UK :

      If you take them now, you pay income tax on them.

      If the price goes up and you sell, you pay capital gains tax on the profit.

      Capital gains tax is charged at a different rate to income tax.

      Wait until the price rises then cash in your options and sell.

      You then only pay the income tax as the gain between the time you exercised your options and when you sell them is less.

      If you do this at the start of a financial year and plan to take a break from work then you could pay less income tax as the value of the sale will be offset by the tax threshold. (£4500 atm. iirc)

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    2. Re:Forget the option just give us the stock by stupidfoo · · Score: 1

      Nah... companies will just continue to go with hard to take advantage of stock option plans.

    3. Re:Forget the option just give us the stock by Uber+Banker · · Score: 1

      That is the tax treatment to the individual in the UK, which while important in the cash vs. options decision, is irrelevant r.e. the article, which is about how companies have to account for options on their income statements and balance sheet.

    4. Re:Forget the option just give us the stock by Momoru · · Score: 1

      Giving the stock would result in even larger losses for the company as this would either require the issuance of new stock (diluting the existing stock) or the company buying stock off the open market. The way options work is that I'm given an option to buy the stock from the company at a "locked in" price for a certain amount of time. This is nice because as an executive, I can wait to exercise my options only when i'm guaranteed a fat profit. If i'm forced to buy the stock outright i may incur losses.

    5. Re:Forget the option just give us the stock by DrSkwid · · Score: 1


      The post to which I was replying asked "If they have to expense it anyway, just give us the straight stock."

      As options and not stock the receiver can decide when to incur the tax implications.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    6. Re:Forget the option just give us the stock by Kevin+Stevens · · Score: 1

      I think it is important for you to realize that granting options DOES dilute the existing stock.

      Also, if the company gives you actual shares, that does not mean that you have to sell them immediately. You could hold on to the stock, wait for it to go up or down, and since you are given something of actual value, you will always profit, unless the company goes under. This could also be advantageous as it eliminates the conflict of interest that managers have when giving out dividends (Since management usually holds lots of stock options, and not actual stock, it is therefore in their best interests to reinvest any additional profits back into the company, not to dole out dividends to actual stock holders).

    7. Re:Forget the option just give us the stock by lgw · · Score: 1

      Granting options *only* dilutes the tock if the company does well. That's the whole point. If the stock price goes down, making the investors angry, the options are all warthless, so the employees share the pain. If the stock price goes up, everyone makes money. It's a nice system.

      The accounting method required, however, makes a company expense the option *even if the stock is plummeting*. This is stupid beyond all reason, and ruins the nice system. Options should only be expensed to the degree that they vest in-the-money.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    8. Re:Forget the option just give us the stock by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Writing options does not create new shares. The company still has to acquire those shares, unless by shareholder vote, the grant more. An option is a promise to sell you stock at a certain price. It has nothing to do with creation of new shares or dilution of any existing shares.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    9. Re:Forget the option just give us the stock by Uber+Banker · · Score: 1

      You fail to grasp the point:

      The article and post were talking about companies' expensing, not employeed. Please RTFA, RTFA and RTFA, in order to comment appropiately. I tried being polite, but it failed, so otherwise FOAD.

    10. Re:Forget the option just give us the stock by lgw · · Score: 1

      Just in case you look at old posts for replies ...

      Every company I've ever looked at deals with employee (and director) stock options by granting more. In this very common case, granting stock options causes dilution, but only when/if those options are excercised, which only happens if the stock goes up. That makes them an attractive idea, from a stockholders perspecitve, if done right.

      Employee stock options are a weird beast, not like normal derivitives. Importantly, they're *much* more likely to go away in a merger, as I've descovered to my misfortune.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  8. grab what you can NOW by TTL0 · · Score: 1

    Yes. I'll think about this issue when i stare at all the worthless options i got from companies that I worked for that are now no longer.

    Today when i negotiate w/ an employer i try to get a better deal for here and now rather than becoming a shareholder of the company. by the time you figure dilution and taxes, the company might as well just take everyone out for dinner and a movie and call it even.

    --
    Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold
    1. Re:grab what you can NOW by Daengbo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but if you get dinner and a movie from them, you know they'll be expecting something from you after... ;)

  9. Re:16th month? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    FASB is located in the USA.

    In the USA, it's Month/Day/Year.

    Of course, you knew that, you're just trying to be funny (and failing miserably.)

  10. Huge change... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 0


    > this will be a huge change in how tech companies work.

    Yeah, they won't be able to pay their slaves with a chance to sit at the roulette wheel once per job.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:Huge change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > > > this will be a huge change in how tech companies work.
      >
      >Yeah, they won't be able to pay their slaves with a chance to sit at the roulette wheel once per job.

      I'd rather work like a slave with a spin of the roulette wheel per job, than work like a slave without the roulette wheel.

      All this FASB change means is that the only people who will ever make it big are the ones in senior management (for whom it's "worth it" to the decisionmakers on the board to take the $1M expense to grant them the options). Joe Coders like you and I are fucked.

  11. Just work a 40-hour week by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    No pay, no work.

    If you're good enough, it'll work.

    1. Re:Just work a 40-hour week by NardofDoom · · Score: 1

      That's what I've been doing, precisely because I don't work overtime.

      --
      You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
    2. Re:Just work a 40-hour week by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ermm....

      I had a former cow-orker who used a variation of that argument -- "if they're only going to pay me $50K, then they'll only get $50K-worth of work out of me" -- (numbers not actual).

      Note the word former -- this is a path that is not without risk. Of course, you should take a moral stand, but do your homework first (have a place to stay when you're out of work, have the surgery done before you take the mighty stand...).

    3. Re:Just work a 40-hour week by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      You'd better be twice as good as the guy willing to work 80 hours a week. That's pretty darn good.
      On a side note, my company pays a quarterly bonus which works out to about 20% of my pay. If I don't work overtime, I probably won't get that bonus. 20% is a pretty serious pay cut to me.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    4. Re:Just work a 40-hour week by fingerfucker · · Score: 1

      You'd better be twice as good as the guy willing to work 80 hours a week. That's pretty darn good. On a side note, my company pays a quarterly bonus which works out to about 20% of my pay. If I don't work overtime, I probably won't get that bonus. 20% is a pretty serious pay cut to me.

      If they pay 20% bonus, if you work in a way that you won't get it, you are NOT accepting a 20% pay cut, but only around a 17% pay cut.

      Explanation: instead of getting $120, you only get $100. One hundred is around 17% of 120.

      You might consider this percentage-counting discrepancy on your part a technicality, but it's a difference nevertheless.

    5. Re:Just work a 40-hour week by doodlelogic · · Score: 1

      If you are tired, stressed and bitter at your job all the time, which will be most people working an 80-hour week, you will produce more for your company on a day to day basis but at some point you, or a colleague in your position, will make a mistake and in many jobs a serious mistake can cost the company far more than they save in the short term.

      Of course there should be rewards for those few people who not only cope with the strain of long hours but thrive on it. But if you are really working double your contracted time, don't you think your bonus should be 100% rather than 20%?

  12. Does it mean LESS stock options, or not? by joelethan · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If stock options are accounted for as expenses, then they are less "attractive" as rewards for staff - prima facie.

    But will it really change the packages on offer? I guess that everyone from CEO down wants to retain stock options. They will just look more expensive to investers i.e. they will get a better view of a firm's financial behavior.

    The relevance to slashdotters, is of course that tech companies have had the growth profile and preferred this "cool" way of rewarding directors and staff.

    /joelethan
    -- In Sri Lanka they aren't worrying about their STOCK OPTIONS being underwater. --

    1. Re:Does it mean LESS stock options, or not? by biggerboy · · Score: 1

      More likely both, depending on the situation.

      The people hurt the most by this change are the middle mangers and below. The executives will continue to get stock options while everyone else does not.

      As for people who think that stock options are ways of "lying" to investors, the problem is that there really isn't a way to expense them in a way that 100% of the people out there agree out there.

      I personally think the formula they're using isn't correct, because it's designed for options trading, whose value varies from day-to-day. For companies that expense options at a higher rate, and then their stock goes down, do they get bonus revenue? Nope.

      That's why this is so fool-hardy. Reminds me of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (I'm sure I misspelled that :-) It's too early in the morning)

    2. Re:Does it mean LESS stock options, or not? by joelethan · · Score: 1
      Agreed: executives will continue to get stock options - they like it that way. Also, as you say, the value (expense) of stock options is slippery at best. If the company fails to perform they expense at zero, otherwise they are a real expense. I'm glad my tax isn't worked out like this.

      Another aspect of stock options is that companies need to buy stock to feed the schemes which may well inflate share price.

      /JE

    3. Re:Does it mean LESS stock options, or not? by greatmazinger · · Score: 1

      It is a way of lying to investors. You have to expense them. You may not agree on the basis, but hard to argue against having to expense options. If you don't, the value is taken out of shareholder value because the number of stocks have increased and the total value has remained the same.

    4. Re:Does it mean LESS stock options, or not? by lgw · · Score: 1

      IANAA, but AFAIK options are sadly not expensed in any such rational way. You expense the options based on the issue price over the time they vest, with no regard to actual stock performance, up or down. It's an accounting method that totally fails to model the underlying money. It's just sad and wrong.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re:Does it mean LESS stock options, or not? by lgw · · Score: 1

      The options issued were always public knowledge. It only took a moment to calculate the likely dilution yourself based on where you thought the stock was heading. No lying involved, though maybe there were some "investors" too lazy to look beyond a single EPS number before taking a risk.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  13. Mostly implemented by confusion · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Most prudent CFO's have already implemented this. From what I have seen, stock options have been relegated back to start-ups, executive compensation packages, and in small amounts, performance & incentive bonuses for those who are the "top performers".

    Jerry
    http://www.syslog.org/

    1. Re:Mostly implemented by Cocteaustin · · Score: 1

      It isn't the case that "most" companies have done this. Some have.

    2. Re:Mostly implemented by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It isn't the case that "most" companies have done this. Some have.

      He didn't say most companies had. He said most prudent CFOs had. You understand subsets, right?

  14. Why this is important.. by Deal-a-Neil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is important because companies that do not report this method of compensation (stock options) have inflated reported financials because options were not properly accounted for on the statements. So, what does that mean? Analysts and investors did not have full disclosure as to how future stock options being exercised would really affect the company in the long (or sometimes short) term.

    This will not only change the way that tech companies operate and report, but other huge publically traded corporations. When a company lures a big name CEO/CFO, and promises hundreds of thousands or millions of stock options to be exercised at a later date, that dillution of equity (even though in the future) was not being properly declared on the financial statements. Now that the FASB (financial account standards board) has made this recommendation/ruling, companies must comply.

    This is what one might call "truth in financial reporting", and I'm very glad to see that this has passed. This has been a very long existing loophole that large companies have used to the detriment of our investment community, and the general public (i.e. our domestic economy) as a whole. Don't be blindsided by the rhetoric that only "tech companies" will be affected by this -- there were a LOT of big corporate powers that did not want to see FASB rule, and whenever you have that, you always have to wonder what their reasons are. I encourage you to read the FAQ, and read any news articles you can regarding this ruling. I think you'll agree this is a very positive thing.

    1. Re:Why this is important.. by kevinT · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because it means that MICROSOFT won't be as profitable as before.

      Microsoft has fought this since it was first suggested. Some reports put Microsoft at a loss instead of profit for several years because they (Microsoft) were able to hide employee expenses in the stock options.

      It remains to be seen if this rule change will have much of an affect outside of reducing stock options more than the dotcom bubble burst did.

    2. Re:Why this is important.. by NotWallaceStevens · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On the other hand, this calls something an "expense" which isn't an expense except in a very abstract accounting sense, making earnings statements even more difficult to understand. Options are incentives which carry risk. This change undercuts their incentive value from the company's perspective, and ignores the risk (that if it really is an instrument in exchange for my services, then mostly I get screwed in that deal, based on our collective experience with options over the last ten years).

    3. Re:Why this is important.. by Cocteaustin · · Score: 1

      Um, no, because Microsoft stopped giving out stock options to rank-and-file employees in the last year and a half. (They now give grants of stock instead, which are always expensed.)

    4. Re:Why this is important.. by cduffy · · Score: 1

      Not all options carry risk. I've been paid in options with nominal (fraction-of-a-cent) strike price, for instance. Might as well have been a grant, except for the tax implications.

    5. Re:Why this is important.. by lgw · · Score: 1

      Sadly, this whole expense nonsense has been pushed by a misguided attempt to reduce executive compensation. The options issued were always a matter of public record, and it's easy enough to model the dilution yourself. The real world effect, however, in companies I'm familiar with is that everyone *but* the executives loses their stock options.

      What, you thought the executives would choose to take the pay cut?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:Why this is important.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      old financial statements will be restated the new way: it's the only way old numbers could be compared with new. So, the old sneakiness will in fact be exposed.

      your "um, no" was cute, though.

    7. Re:Why this is important.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "options are incentives which carry risk", AND which have a cash value. You are failing to grasp the whole point of accounting which is to create things in a "very abstract accounting sense" to make financial statements make sense, even if they are not understandable to you.

      There is no difference between amortizing investments and expensing options.

  15. "Yes; the data is from 12/16/04" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    How about "Yes, this is a re-post from last week's news?"

  16. Stock Option for Dummies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    A stock option is a contract that lets you buy a share of stock after some point in the future at a specified price. Example, a Google employee might get paid an option to purchase Google at $50 / share exactly three years from today.

    Three years later, when Google sells for $100 / share and you cash in your option, Google will pay the difference b/t the share price and the option price (in this example $50). This is an expense which is tax deductible. Such a deduction creates a GAIN. The gain can be classified as income from continueing operations .... very misleading.

    Also misleading is that a company can employ a bunch of people without incurring the usual payroll costs associated with employing people. Therefore, sales should rise, but costs of goods sold does not rise. This creates a misleading impression of profitability. However, the market will probably catch this and lower the value of the stock. And this can happen long before your option has reached its maturity.

    YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT OPTIONS IN LIEU OF CASH. This is a decision each employee makes. You can, in theory, accept a lower pay of pure cash instead of a "higher" pay composed of stock options.

    Going back to the Google example, if three years from now Google traded at or below $50 / share, your option would be worthless and you would have nothing. That is why you might want to consider getting paid in cash VS. getting paid in options.

    1. Re:Stock Option for Dummies by adsl · · Score: 1

      However, IF the Google employee is allowed to make a Sale of his stock on the Open market, at the then maket price of $100.00, the following happens. The employee makes a gain of $50.00 per share and he has to pay Tax on that gain. Google receives new Capital at $50.00 per Share (i.e. at the original strake price and not the now market price). (Note all options come from "authorized" shares to be issued as approved by their Board of Directors and noted in all financial statements and voted on by existing Shareholders). In this example Google has not Loss. It merely finally receives cash capital at the rate it agreed to 3 years ago. Why then push through a financial loss to the company when it has suffered no loss!

    2. Re:Stock Option for Dummies by Herbmaster · · Score: 1

      YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT OPTIONS IN LIEU OF CASH. This is a decision each employee makes. You can, in theory, accept a lower pay of pure cash instead of a "higher" pay composed of stock options.

      I am intruiged by your theory and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. Seriously, how do you propose that I get my employer to give me cash instead of stock options?

      --
      I'm not a smorgasbord.
    3. Re:Stock Option for Dummies by Cool+Hand+Luke · · Score: 1

      Putting aside questions of wheither all employers offer the option of cash or stock options...

      Could the spurning of stock options for cash send a message to the employer that this particular employee doesn't like the company's long-term perspectives (and/or their long-term prospects at said company)? "Gee, thanks for the 10,000 shares of Digitech stock in 3 years, but I really could use $1000 today..."

      For those lucky enough to work for employers who understand money in hand today can be worth more to some people than future payment, good for them. However, I'm sure there's a number of employers who view stock options vs. cash as a no-brainer (i.e. the options), and view employees who want the former as potential un-loyal.

      (Now when your employer views options vs. cash as a no-brainer to take the cash, you have to wonder about the future prospects of that company...)

    4. Re:Stock Option for Dummies by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      A: My understanding of this is that in awarding options, the company sets aside the stock that covers the option when they decide to make the award. If this is correct, then the company would not be buying anything, they would be accepting they $50.00/share from the employee, and that would be a gain.

      B: "
      Three years later, when Google sells for $100 / share and you cash in your option, Google will pay the difference b/t the share price and the option price (in this example $50). This is an expense which is tax deductible. Such a deduction creates a GAIN. The gain can be classified as income from continueing operations .... very misleading"

      Assuming things work this way, then the deduction is a gain, perhaps, but then isnt the buying of the stock a loss that more than offsets the gain?

      Further, if, instead of setting aside the stock to cover the options, they sell it, then that purchase price, the interest on that over the period between grant and excersize, and some small fragment of the resulting profitablity of the company ought to "offset" the costs.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    5. Re:Stock Option for Dummies by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      "Could the spurning of stock options for cash send a message to the employer that this particular employee doesn't like the company's long-term perspectives"

      I suspect that companies that have this narrow point of view probably won't offer a cash option since they believe it inconceivable that they could fail or that anyone wouldn't want to share in the incredible wealth that is just around the corner. In other words, a company that is going to fail.

    6. Re:Stock Option for Dummies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lets look at this from a more extreme (and very typical example during the .com years). Boogle.com offers its original employees options to buy shares at $1 each. So Joe Programmer has 10k shares of which he can buy. The board approved this, and thus there are 10,000 more shares out there. Later Boogle.com goes public. The price skyrockets to $201/share. Joe Programmer exercises his option and sells his 10k shares for a net profit of $2 million dollars. Essentially Google lost that 2 million dollars. Had they not granted the option, that would still be $2 million dollars in value that the company had retained (even if they didnt actually sell those shares and it remained on paper). This is a part of employee compensation that slips through the cracks.

      The tricky part is how to value it, but thats really a seperate more technical discussion, and where the real arguments begin.

  17. Re:Get a dictionary by randallpowell · · Score: 0

    Since when is it a crime not to be fluent in business. Oh yeah, 2000.....

  18. To save time, a little proforma by Zog+The+Undeniable · · Score: 1
    Dear Slashdot editors, I:

    [ ] don't get stock options
    [ ] don't work for a listed corporation
    [ ] don't work
    [ ] am not human

    YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!

    --
    When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
  19. Here you go: by Proaxiom · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Faithful translation:
    [Stock options result] in financial statements that do not faithfully represent the economic transactions affecting the issuer, namely, the receipt and consumption of employee services in exchange for equity instruments...

    Stock options amount to the company giving money to employees...

    ...Financial statements that do not faithfully represent those economic transactions can distort the issuer's reported financial condition and results of operations...

    ...without showing up on the company's books, making them look a little rosier than they really are...

    ...which can lead to the inappropriate allocation of resources in the capital markets.

    ...thus inflating the stock price and ripping off investors.

    1. Re:Here you go: by Vo0k · · Score: 1

      Thank you. I wish I had mod points. (and the author of the summary should be shot.)

      --
      Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
    2. Re:Here you go: by Bellyflop · · Score: 1

      To be fair, they don't entirely rip off investors. The extra stock issuance ends up showing up on the companies per share data. Of course, you can argue that a lot of times, people aren't looking for the per share number - they are expecting a company to pull in a certain amount of revenue or profit, ignoring the new issuance that is being used as comp.

      Anyway, in some senses, employees may be better off. Eventually, companies will have to compensate you or risk losing you to a competitor. If they compensate you in cash or stock awards, all the better. I'd rather be able to diversify my portfolio rather than have it all tied up in one company whose honesty and management I can't necesarily gauge. All it takes is one accounting scandal to wipe out your personal profits.

    3. Re:Here you go: by Mandrake.Eldorage · · Score: 1
      Stock options amount to the company giving money to employees...
      No, stock options amount to the shareholders giving money to employees.
      ...without showing up on the company's books,
      Because they don't affect the company's books. They affect the value of the shares.
      ...thus inflating the stock price and ripping off investors.
      When an employee exercises stock options (sells them on the market), the number of shares outstanding is increased, thus diluting the value of all shares slightly. The seller gets money from this dilution. It could be seen as a ripoff, but only if the shareholders are naive enough to not know what is happening. All the information required to see this is present in the company reports, before or after the FASB rulings.
    4. Re:Here you go: by Proaxiom · · Score: 1
      Indeed, I was only presenting one side of the argument, which is what the article summary contained.

      I meant that it amounts to giving money, because granting options amounts to giving shares (at the time the options are exercised), and those shares have monetary value to the employee.

      You are correct that granting options does not affect the company's books. That is the counter-argument offered by the tech industry.

      However, in general I agree that the practice of expensing options should become mandatory, because stock dilution affects share price in exactly the same way that expenses do. It is not simply naive shareholders who are affected, but any shareholder who does not know how to look at the option grant numbers and calculate a reasonable valuation for them (which is probably all investors excluding investment professionals and accountants).

    5. Re:Here you go: by Moofie · · Score: 1

      As long as they pay taxes based on the profits they report to shareholders, I don't think it really matters what method they use (as long as it's consistent).

      However, right now, they're essentially keeping two sets of books. That's bad.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    6. Re:Here you go: by EnderWiggnz · · Score: 1

      Because they don't affect the company's books. They affect the value of the shares.

      I dont understand. How can a change in the value of the company to its owners, the shareholders, not be a change to the value of the company itself? how can you not account for this expense?

      --
      ... hi bingo ...
    7. Re:Here you go: by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      >When an employee exercises stock options (sells them on the market), the number of shares
      Not without the shareholders voting to increase the number of shares. All exercising the option does is force the issuer to sell (or buy, but in this instance, we're only talking about Calls) you X shares at Y price. They have to either already own the stock, or buy it on the open market. They can't just pull it out of their butt unless the shareholders agree to issue new shares to cover the exercise.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  20. Re:16th month? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nah, not funny. Bitter and cynical.

    You clowns have to realise some day how totally screwed up a nn/nn/nn date format is when there is no universally accepted positional meaning.

    When Slashdot converts to ISO standard, I'll be happy.

  21. Lottery by ryu1232 · · Score: 1

    I read the FAQ link, The first few paragraphs essentially said, work for us, and we will pay you in lottery tickets.

    1. Re:Lottery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read the FAQ link, The first few paragraphs essentially said, work for us, and we will pay you in lottery tickets.

      Right, but in this case, it's like the lottery company paying its employees in lottery tickets, but not calling it an expense (or only expensing the cost of the paper for the ticket). The problem is that the stock option or lottery ticket has some value that the company is not considering.

      Remember that an option is not stock - it's an option to buy stock later at a given price today. Say a company gives an employee options to buy 10 shares at $10 each. Say there are already 10 shares outstanding. If the employee takes the option later when the stock price is twice as much as the option price (so price is $20 per share, or owner's equity of the company is $200), then the company gets $100 more cash from the employee, so it's worth $300, but there are 20 shares now, so the share price drops to $15 each. That means unexercised options need to be taken into account to give a real financial picture. (This is all over-simplified and doesn't take future earnings of the company into account).

      Every time the company publishes its financial statements, it needs to include the effect of exercising all of the options that are out there.

  22. Politics? by Uber+Banker · · Score: 1

    Why Politics? This is not a political issue.

    1. Re:Politics? by Cocteaustin · · Score: 1

      It absolutely is a political issue, since the decision to expense or not to expense was 1) made by the government, and 2) came about as a result of public outcry over the stunning lapses in corporate governance that occurred over the last few years (Enron, Tyco, etc.). The expensing rule was implementated for reasons of transparency and fairness to investors. But that transparency was already there (since corporations already have to disclose how many shares of stock they issue and to whom). As for fairness to investors, when was the last time you did or did not purchase a company's stock based on how many options it issued to its employees? Didn't think so.

    2. Re:Politics? by EnderWiggnz · · Score: 1

      FYI - FASB is not a governmental agency, its the Accreditting authority for CPA's.

      --
      ... hi bingo ...
  23. Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yay! Microsoft can no longer grow like a pyramid scheme, w00t!

    Get a job at microsoft, get all these options Microsoft gets bigger cause they hired you, & their stock goes up. Microsoft hires more people using extra stock money...give out options...w00t pyramid scheme!

  24. Why is this in the Politics section? by R2.0 · · Score: 1

    I guess Politics is becoming the new catch all, after YRO.

    --
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    1. Re:Why is this in the Politics section? by CptNerd · · Score: 1

      Because tax policy is a political matter, not a matter of your rights online.

      HTH.

      Cap.

      --
      By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
  25. Negative side of stock options by childv · · Score: 1

    Working for two start-up companies (now defunct). I had stock options - now worthless. What these options meant to the technical staff? A way (good and bad) for the management staff to motivate the already overworked technical person. That is not to say that options used for motivation were bad. Having stock options did help form a comradely in the technical organization. But now looking back - after all the long hours working hard to make the new company successful with the thought in the back of your mind that you would receive a reward in the end - is a very poor way to motivate yourself.

    1. Re:Negative side of stock options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you did 'long hours working hard to make the new company successful with the thought in the back of your mind that you would receive a reward in the end'. I would say that it was a pretty damn effective way to motivate yourself.

  26. Dupe! by yopie · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes; the data is from 12/16/04, but this will be a huge change in how tech companies work.

    It was mentioned in Slasdot on 12/17/04

    1. Re:Dupe! by hugesmile · · Score: 1
      It was mentioned in Slasdot on 12/17/04

      What's Slasdot?

  27. Hmmm... by devaldez · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Couple of corrections to the statements already made:
    1. It is not really possible to properly account for option grants vis a vis cash vaule because: a. options are a hedge AND b. options may not be cashed out (employee leaves/dies, stock is underwater)
    2. If 1 is true, then you get an equally distorted view AFTER this decision as before

    The argument that investors will have a better idea of the business as a result of this is not really accurate, either. After all, institutional investors already follow option grants, so this isn't hidden. If you don't follow this kind of data for any company you invest in, you're simply willfully ignorant.

    --
    "... but you can love completely without complete understanding." - Norman Maclean, "A River Runs Through It"
    1. Re:Hmmm... by ancientreader · · Score: 2, Informative

      Options are a hedge only if you are exposed to a pre-existing risk to rises in the stock price. It's hard to argue that any employee is exposed to a risk based on the stock price *rising*.

      Stock options without the pre-existing risk are speculative securities, just like stock or any other financial instrument. Employees earn income from stock options; hence, the company should record expense.

      While it's true that options may not be cashed out, the accounting standard allows for companies to adjust the expense based on changes in expected redemption rates due to the factors you list (employee attrition or stock price behavior).

      Accounting records anything with cash implications to companies. Options have such implications, and the presentation in income underscores this.

    2. Re:Hmmm... by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      "Employees earn income from stock options; hence, the company should record expense".

      No company that I have ever had options in has ever gotten to the point where I could excersize. So, excepting the administrative costs, no expense happened for any of them in my case ( and in the cases of my fellow employees ).

      How do you account for that? I find it hard to believe that any company will say "well, success rates at startups are 1 in ten make it, so there is a 10% chance we will be standing in five years, lets adjust the expense to reflect that". But from my side, it seems that that ought to be done ( provided the proper calculations are done to see what that works out to for various companies in various stages of life and various industries )...

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    3. Re:Hmmm... by yoha · · Score: 1

      That's incorrect. All options have a value. Here are some examples. You'll notice that some options have close to zero value.

      http://finance.yahoo.com/q/op?s=GOOG

    4. Re:Hmmm... by ancientreader · · Score: 1

      You raise a good point. Recording option value as expense is based on a weighted-average probability-based calculation on what may happen in the future. The option formulas are supposed to take into account the probability that the options may not make money for employees into account, but it's all based on estimation. Who knows what the stock market will do in a year, let alone certain individual stocks?

      On the other hand, didn't you accept your options as part of your compensation package, in exchange for your services rendered? Or is it a lottery ticket you're getting, which has a payoff strictly based on luck and not effort? (No offense.)

    5. Re:Hmmm... by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      I didnt have a lot of choice in this regard. :-)

      Really, honestly, it was both. It was a lottery ticket that was part of my compensation package. And this view is strictly from *my* point of view as the employee. Across the entire company, it ought to be viewed as based on effort ( the company as a whole's effort ).

      No offence taken, but lets say ( only because it is true :-) ) that I put in absolutely stellar effort. I believe that that has an impact on the bottom line, but the payoff is still much more about random internal events ( other employees, including upper management doing a good a job as I have ), and random external events ( performance of the economny, performance of the stock market in general, performance of the market in my industry segment, uptake of the product/service my company is offering, etc, etc ), than on my individual efforts. That may sound like it could be used as an excuse to say " no options / stock for you ". And it could be. But where is the alignment ( that is so crucial to doing well ) with the customer wants/needs/desires that is desired without it.

      All that said, my instance data were all former employeers. I am now consulting, and no stock/options are part of my current "portfolio".

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    6. Re:Hmmm... by ancientreader · · Score: 1

      You make a great argument for limiting the expensing of the options to the highest execs within the company, which is what businesses and Congress are trying to do, and with which I concur. The execs are the ones that have enough power to single-handedly (or at least through the actions of a few) significantly change the direction, and thus the stock price, of the company. And they have the power to influence stock price through cooking the books, the ugly effects of which have been shown of late. Plus they seem to get more favorable terms (lower strike prices) so they are more likely to get paid.

      My sister had options when she worked at Borders, and did actually make some money on them, but not much. Companies should get an incentive to help employees become shareholders, which they get through the tax laws, but expensing rank-and-file employees' options would seem to cancel that incentive.

    7. Re:Hmmm... by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      Thank you for an interesting conversation.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    8. Re:Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The parent comment misses a basic concept: an imperfect measure is better than no measure. The original assertion is similar to saying "we cannot deterministically predict the time for a shell sort on an arbitrary data set so knowing the order is useless." Similarly, the final comment is like saying "MSFT knows its own code so there is no need for anyone to have that information." Mod me as a troll and then allow some /. folks to think about my comments.

  28. Re:16th month? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, ISO finally defines Monday as the first day of the week. If Sunday is part of the *weekend*, how could it ever be the *first* day of the week?

  29. Ah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice catch on the inherent logical fallacies in the parent post, and the nod towards the rules making the market more efficient by increasing the amount of signal reflected in the market price.

  30. Fewer Startups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the past, startup tech companies have relied on stock options as an affordable way of attracting qualified employees. With option expensing these startup's ledgers will be so ugly that they will no longer be able to attract venture capital. So startups will be forced to either

    1. Not offer options, and have a harder time attracting the high powered engineers.

    2. Offer options but run with no operating cash because they can't get venture capital.

    3. (The most likely) Simply never start the company in the first place.

    The bottom line for us techies should be fewer startups and fewer jobs.

  31. Stock options are not random by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone keeps talking about how the payoff from stock options are random. This is not the case. Stock options pay off when the company does well, they do not pay off if the company does poorly.

    The whole point of stock option is to align the interests of the employee with the interests of the owners (shareholders). This is most important with upper management because the decisions they make affect the value of the company more heavily then the decisions lower down in the company.

    1. Re:Stock options are not random by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      " Everyone keeps talking about how the payoff from stock options are random. This is not the case. Stock options pay off when the company does well, they do not pay off if the company does poorly".

      Yes, this is the random part.

      "
      The whole point of stock option is to align the interests of the employee with the interests of the owners (shareholders). This is most important with upper management because the decisions they make affect the value of the company more heavily then the decisions lower down in the company".

      I would think that having everyone headed in the same direction would be good, not just upper management.

      I dont say it is you, but I have seen some rants here where the ranter says that employees are just a bunch of people looking to screw over their employers, to do the minimum possible, to do nothing at all, if they can, etc, etc. I suspect that they would agree with your point of making options just for the upper management team. The dicotomy I hope I am making visible is the disconnect between the "work harder, you lazy bunch of employees" and "you dont make enough difference to be worth stock options" mindset.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
  32. But some values are fairer than others by m0llusk · · Score: 1
    Enjoy this choice bit from the FAQ:
    The Statement permits entities to use any option-pricing model that meets the fair value objective in the Statement; however, the Baord believes that lattice models, including the binomial option-pricing model, are capable of more fully reflecting certain characteristics of employee share options.

    If you do not know what lattice models and binomial option-pricing models are and how they work, then do you really understand what this change represents? Mandelbrot's new book The (Mis)behavior of Markets has some interesting arguments that these models are poor representations of value based on misunderstandings of how markets determine prices. This is somewhat damning, especially if the problem this is supposed to solve is corporate executives feathering their nests to extremes which is still continuing and increasing.

  33. Re:Fewer Startups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot:

    4. Start a company that's profitable without needing to lie to investors.

    The bottom line is that there should be fewer failed startups.

  34. Double accounting by bhurt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This change will make stock options for anyone except the top most layers of management a thing of the past. You see, stock options are already expensed. The main measure of the value of a company is the Earnings Per Share, or EPS. This is the ratio of the total earnings of the company divided by the number of outstanding shares. Increase the number of shares, and what happens? The EPS drops. But now, if you issue stock options, you get hit twice. You get hit once by falling EPS due to the increased number of shares, and a second time as you have to decrease your earnings by an amount equal to the value of the stock option grant.

    The problem with stock options were the immediate grants. The idea behind stock options was to give the people in the company- not just the upper level management, but everyone- a stake in the company. A stake in the long term prospects of the growth- especially if the options you're granted now can't be exercised for five years. All of a sudden not only are you less likely to quit (and lose those options!), you're more concerned about where the company will be five years from now.

    The problem is with the CEOs getting multimillion dollar stock grants, on pennies on the dollar, effective immediately. This encourages to pump up next quarter's numbers by any means, hook or crook, so they can dump their stock. And to heck with where the company will be a year, let alone five years from now.

    But hey- given a chance to throw the baby out but keep the bathwater, would we pass up the chance?

    Brian

    1. Re:Double accounting by Herbmaster · · Score: 1

      This change will make stock options for anyone except the top most layers of management a thing of the past.

      Quite the contrary. Some companies will give up issuing stock options all together (Microsoft has already basically done this, good for them). Others will decide that it is not practical to issue thousands upon thousands of heavily discounted options to executives. The formula to calculate how much to expense an option specifies that the more an option is discounted, the more it is worth, obviously multipled by the number of options issued. Regular employees will still get the same small quantities of market priced options, which are much cheaper to issue (as defined by the new rules).

      You see, stock options are already expensed. The main measure of the value of a company is the Earnings Per Share, or EPS.

      Uh huh. There are a million ways to valuate a company, and if EPS were the One True Way, we never would have seen the dotcom bubble of the 90s, nor countless other over- (and under!) valued companies. Regardless, the value of the shares of the company are not the same as the value as the assets of the company, nor should it. Expensing of stock options is a charge against the assets, just like payroll, which is necessary because previously there was no accounting required for the cost of stock options in the company's assets.

      The idea behind stock options was to give the people in the company- not just the upper level management, but everyone- a stake in the company.

      There are much better ways to accomplish this than issuing stock options. Give me actual stock, not stock options. Or better yet, give me cash, and encourage me to buy my own stock. Offer employees a stock purchase program. Ownership in my company is what gives me a stake in the company and an incentive or interest in its success. Options are much more reserved than actual stock. There's no actual stake in the company until you choose to exercise it (buy it).

      The problem is with the CEOs getting multimillion dollar stock grants, on pennies on the dollar, effective immediately. This encourages to pump up next quarter's numbers by any means, hook or crook, so they can dump their stock. And to heck with where the company will be a year, let alone five years from now.

      This is a problem with both share grants and option grants. The real solution is restricted stock grants, which don't permit executives to sell for a number of years or until they leave the company. Unfortunately fewer companies do this because executives demand big and immediate bonuses.

      --
      I'm not a smorgasbord.
    2. Re:Double accounting by MrWa · · Score: 1
      The idea behind stock options was to give the people in the company- not just the upper level management, but everyone- a stake in the company. A stake in the long term prospects of the growth- especially if the options you're granted now can't be exercised for five years.

      This is what they wanted you to believe during the dot-com era. The purpose of stock option was, originally, to tie the financial benefits of top executives to the performance of the company. This idea was extended to other employees when companies realized that they could compensate people without the expense by issuing stock options. This enabled employees to make a lot of money during the dot-com boom, even when the company wasn't making a profit at all. The real problem, though, was with traditional companies that needed to do the same thing to compete for talent. The increased use of stock options as compensation has led to this change - the practice of giving options, in some form, to top executives will continue because it has been shown effective. Regular employees will just not get them anymore.

    3. Re:Double accounting by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      You say "problem" when you talk about companies competing for employees. But isnt that just capitalism in action? I dont think it is truly a problem. It is inconvenient to the company that didnt get the employee, but I cant see that as a problem.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    4. Re:Double accounting by MrWa · · Score: 1
      Problem only in the sense that the expense of compensating employees more and more via stock options was not being accounted properly. It isn't a problem that people were making more money.

      The competition will still be there now but in other forms.

    5. Re:Double accounting by Moofie · · Score: 1

      "the practice of giving options, in some form, to top executives will continue because it has been shown effective"

      I'd love to hear you elaborate on that. How has it been "shown effective"? I mean, I know that executives like stock options, but saying that stock options for executives result in better corporate governance is going to take some supporting evidence.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    6. Re:Double accounting by willis · · Score: 1

      OK, check it out - a company has earnings of 10mm/year, and 10mm shares, and 10mm in unexercised options. EPS = 1.00. Later, employees exercise, and EPS becomes 0.50. Now, granted once the employees exercise, the price is properly impacted... but beforehand, how would you know / predict? Outstanding shares don't include options (the shares come from the company's treasurey stock, I believe).

      --

      there is no thing
      what else could you want?
  35. Ho hum... maybe. by Anonymous+Meoward · · Score: 1

    Yes; the data is from 12/16/04, but this will be a huge change in how tech companies work.

    Not without another period of insanity like the '90s.

    As many other Slashdotter have pointed out, stock options don't mean much unless you work for a stable organization (like Cisco, which is the king of employee stock-option grants AFAICT). And of course if those options have a chance in hell of being above water at maturity or later.

    The change is actually good news for shareholders, and will force companies to act responsibly before diluting their owners' equity. There's no need anymore to tolerate any of the "license to print money" crap from the past decade.

    The only bone I have to pick is that, IIRC, someone out there (FASB? SEC? your congresscritter?) is thinking of abandoning the Black-Scholes method of options pricing, which is the standard method (look it up), but only in the case of executive or employee compensation.

    That sounds fishy to me: IMO an option is an option is an option, and should be evaluated as such. Any other finance/econ dilletantes out there care to comment?

    --
    --- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
  36. Fine with me by YllabianBitPipe · · Score: 1

    Speaking from personal experience, options are great when the stock market is on a tear and an insult when the markets are going down. For the past four years, I'd take salary and a steady pay check over options any day. And the sickening thing is that although options are touted as a way to give everyone at a company a share in the company, it's by no means an equal share. The disgusting disparities in pay are echoed even more ridiculously in terms of options.

  37. But they're not "expenses"! by Megane · · Score: 1

    The problem that I have with all this is the word "expensing". An expense is something that HAS cost you money. A liability is something that WILL cost you money. These don't cost the company one cent until they're cashed in, and might not ever if they're given out at the top of a bubble. They're liabilities, dammit!

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    1. Re:But they're not "expenses"! by ancientreader · · Score: 1

      Not quite. An expense is something that has or will cost money, either based on a past action or an action you take now that impacts cash in the future. It's not a liability because it deals with a company's own stock, which is an equity transaction and not a liability. (Imagine if companies could play with their balance sheets just by trading in their own stock...accounting rules don't let them do this, in the main.)

      Options are an expense - the company's taken an action that comes with a (likely) future cash sacrifice, but a sacrifice of future cash financing.

    2. Re:But they're not "expenses"! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An option that is never excercised is NOT an expense, and NO one can predict which options will or will not be excercised. Nor can the company predict the price at which it is excersized and hence the value of that expense.

      Expensing options before they're excersized is the most idiotic idea I've ever heard of.

  38. Stock Options are not a panacea... by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 1

    I have stock options that have vested that I can't exersize because the bottom fell out (i.e. lets say I got options at $20, and now the stock is selling for $10).

    The last stock options that were issued by my company was several years ago. Since then they have been issueing cash bonuses instead - which those of us holding worthless options welcomed.

    (I am hoping the stock market will climb again so I can exersize the options I am holding, but I doubt it will go high enough for those options there were given in recent years - when the stock price was inflated. There is a time limit on how long you can hold them once they vest - so having stock options is a big gamble for you)

    --

    Lodragan Draoidh
    The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    1. Re:Stock Options are not a panacea... by juuri · · Score: 0, Troll

      Actually you can excersize some of them, take the loss and lower your tax due in the next year. This can be extremely helpful if you need to lose just enough to drop down a tax bracket. With a little planning you can end up making more net after such a change in your taxable income.

      --
      --- I do not moderate.
    2. Re:Stock Options are not a panacea... by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Ya, i'm going to lose $20 so that i can write off $10 of that loss. Good idea.

  39. lame ones on the board by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5y&s=ORCL&l=on&z=l &q=l&c=ca%2Cbmc%2Cmsft shows that companies heavily into issuing stock opttions have gone down 50% over the last 5 years.

    The 'the economy is against us' in their financial statements does not stand.

  40. Re:16th month? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So if there is no universally accepted method, how could one use be wrong and another right? How in the future is someone going to suddenly realize the method they use is screwed up and what is going to trigger that sudden thought? Both methods represent the date, neither is better then the other. 99.99% of the people I deal with on a daily basis use the same method I do, I am not switching until the majority swings the other way. There is a long way to go for that and if it does happen, It will not be because I suddenly realized the previous method was stupid.

  41. Closing the Doors, One By One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    This is nothing new. Before the 1970's, when only cash income was taxed, companies used to provide benefits like country club memberships, cars and drivers, free homes, etc. instead of salary. This was especially prevalent in Britain, where the marginal tax rate pre-Margaret Thatcher reached 83%(!). It was cheaper to give the employee a house and a car and pay a low-salary chauffeur than to give the manager a raise that gave him $10,000 more take-home pay. Make all remuneration the same, and let the employee decide if they want the money or the car...

    Similarly for corporations. If payment A (cash) looks like an expense on the balance sheet and payment B (options) doesn't (yet), then which one will they pick?

    I guess one of the other questions is, how does the company handle options when due? If they just issue new shares, they dilute existing shareholder value - which those shareholders might want to know about. If they buy back shares the company incurrs an expense which should be noted. Issuing shares is the least painful method to the bottom line, if the excutives are no longer majority shareholders, and the existing shareholders have little clout.

    The Accounting profession (IANAA) is generally conservative. Income should not be recorded until it's earned, expenses should be recorded as soon as you're contractually obligated to pay. (I.e., you can't back out unilaterally). It's rules probably demand that shares be treated as costs at current market value - since there is no easy way to predict future share prices. And once the "promise" (option) is there, it has to be accounted for in case it IS exercised.

    Presumably, if the option is not exercised, then the liability dissappears as a nice bonus for an ailing company (and another employee ripped off by the system).

    Presumably, now, too, the employee really hasn't earned anything until they either exercise the option for a profit or sell the option (if allowed!). So they shouldn'tpay taxes until the option is exercised.

    Watch for the IRS someday soon to assign value to options and tax them as current income. After all, you CAN buy futures options on some listed stocks (and commodities) so there is a value there. Maybe they'll make you restate all previous years' income tax once the value of the option is determined on exercising it. After all, they are the government.

    1. Re:Closing the Doors, One By One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      This was especially prevalent in Britain, where the marginal tax rate pre-Margaret Thatcher reached 83%(!).
      In the US the top tax bracket was 90% in the 1950s. And the economy did very well, thank you.
  42. Look up "SAR" - stock appreciation rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many companies allow you to receive cash instead of company stock. That is called a Stock Appreciation Right (SAR). Usually this information is contained in the annual report.

    1. Re:Look up "SAR" - stock appreciation rights by Herbmaster · · Score: 1

      Many companies allow you to receive cash instead of company stock. That is called a Stock Appreciation Right (SAR). Usually this information is contained in the annual report.

      Well, this is different from the previous statement, which implied anyone (at least theoretically) had this choice. A quick googling for my employer and "Stock Appreciation Right" doesn't turn up anything interesting, so I'm guessing it doesn't apply to me. But simply googling for SAR finds a page which implies to me that SARs and stock options are totally different animals.

      --
      I'm not a smorgasbord.
  43. Re:16th month? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh ye of limited thought! Clearly there are only two possible sensible methods: left to right, or right to left. Putting the middle bit first is just plain wrong.

    But never mind this, I'm willing to give up my native date ordering to adopt the ISO standard. This should make you happy as I don't get to win either. We would meet at a neutral point, so to speak, where neither the European nor the American format win, though the Japanese might feel a bit smug.

  44. Case 3 by Ironsides · · Score: 1

    Case 3: Employee with stock option to buy shares at $200 a share. Employee does nothing with stock option as it will cause them to loose money.

    Stock options are issued in advance before they may be redeemed. Also, they may not always be redeemed as in the above case (unless you are in an idiot). If anything, the options should be listed under a "Risk" category, not under expenses as they may or may not be redeemed.

    --
    Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
  45. On the other hand... by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1
    This is a contradiction: The company IS losing money... the real loser are the other share holders.

    If the company buys new shares to give to the employees, it is an expense, and as far as I know, has always been treated that way.

    Stock options from newly printed stock are a payment from the shareholders (who's share of the company is diluted) to the employees. The company is just an intermediary, and does not lose any money (outside of printing costs). It's no different than if all of the stockholders decided to give 10% of their stock to someone, the company doesn't lose anything. Saying that they do lose something seems like lying about revenue.

    This isn't ripping off stockholders as long as they state that they printed more shares.

    Actually, forget what I said and just read the second bulleted paragraph here. They state the issue much more elequently than I can. "Unlike other forms of compensation, stock options impose no financial drain on a company."

    Or, from a less biased source: "Every other expense decreases the net worth of the corporation, whereas stock options, when exercised, actually increase it."

    Just so someone tells the other side of the story. :)

    Yndrd1984

  46. Stock options don't pay the mortgage by Zed2K · · Score: 0, Troll

    Options also don't put food on the table, pay for heat and electricity or put gas in my car to get to the job that issued the options instead of cash.

    Until the day comes where I can go to the grocery store and pay with stock options instead of cash they will continue to be worthless.

    1. Re:Stock options don't pay the mortgage by BobaFett · · Score: 1

      Now they don't. But in the boom time in the valley stock options were like second currency. Even some small coffehouses and Chineese restaurants took options or shares from startups in liew of cash payments. Some companies which provided services to said startups actually insisited on equity instead of cash.

  47. Not a scam. by rmcd · · Score: 1

    Why is the tax deduction a scam? A share has real value. If you give an employee a share worth $100 in exchange for $50 (as would happen when an option was exercised), you are lowering the value of shares held by others and in effect giving the employee $50. The company should have a tax deduction, exactly as if they paid cash to the employee.

    1. Re:Not a scam. by nojomofo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why it's a scam is that they didn't have to report it as an expense to their shareholders. So while they were telling the IRS that they didn't make money, they were telling their investors that the stock options were free, and that they were making money hand-over-fist.

    2. Re:Not a scam. by rmcd · · Score: 1

      Well, maybe we're haveing a semantic dispute, but the tax treatment of options is consistent with the tax treatment of other compensation. If you're saying that the accounting treatment before FAS 123R was a scam, I am in wholehearted agreement. For that you have to blame congress (in particular Joe Lieberman) and the lobbyists, not the IRS.

    3. Re:Not a scam. by doodlelogic · · Score: 1

      Which is why listed companies' tax returns should be made public...

  48. Wonder what will happen... by JakiChan · · Score: 1

    Basically reporting will be better, but it will mean a big change in the tech industry for talent. If the company's response to this is to stop issuing stock options then they need another way to incentivize (is that even a word?) their employees. If they decide not to then they will be basically creating a salary cut of some sort.

    In other words give me options or give me money, but if it's just salary and the salary only grows by 2-3%/yr then I will change jobs more often than before since that will be the only way to increase my income.

    --
    "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
    1. Re:Wonder what will happen... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they need another way to incentivize (is that even a word?) their employees

      The word is "incent".

    2. Re:Wonder what will happen... by sfjoe · · Score: 1

      they need another way to incentivize (is that even a word?) their employees.

      It's a perfectly cromulent word.

      --
      It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
    3. Re:Wonder what will happen... by JakiChan · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I know it's funktacular.

      --
      "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
  49. New Economics by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    I've got a corporation. I'll just issue more options on shares, and give them to my employees instead of cash - up to 25% their salaries, a great value for them, at the rate I'm offering. I'll convert 25% of my biggest expense, salaries, from cash I have to get from customers, into options I can whip up in an email, and keep that 25% as profit. Until they exercise those options (I dunno, after the IPO, I guess), that profit is all mine. With every other corporation printing up money in the form of these expensable options, I'd better spend that cash while it's still worth something, because we're going to inflate the value of the assets that cash must represent beyond belief. Boy, this is so much better than the "old economy", where I had to laboriously note in my corporate reports that I had an "outstanding liability" on issued derivatives of my equity. How could anyone foolish enough to invest in my company ever understand such arcane accounting lingo? Instead, the cracks in the monetary system we're creating will be impossible to ignore

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:New Economics by Tropic+Lightning · · Score: 1

      You get it. Yes, the cracks will be impossible to ignore. It is only a matter of who's left holding the bag when that day comes. And, in this matter, it's coming soon. June 15 officially, but the smart money is already moving.

    2. Re:New Economics by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Ah, but where can the smart money move? This scheme will allow arbitrary issuance of expensed corporate equity to inflate the "money" supply. Doesn't that destroy all the currencies traded on the open market? Doesn't that make only the Chinese Renmimbi safe? And even they have to sell most of their goods in traded currencies to keep the Renmimbi economy working.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  50. Re:Ho hum... maybe. by hugesmile · · Score: 1
    The problem with the Black -Scholes model for pricing options are the assumptions made by the model:

    • The price of the underlying instrument is a geometric Brownian motion, in particular with constant drift and volatility.
    • It is possible to short sell the underlying stock.
    • There are no riskless arbitrage opportunities.
    • Trading in the stock is continuous.
    • There are no transaction costs.
    • All securities are perfectly divisible (e.g. it is possible to buy 1/100th of a share).
    • The risk free interest rate is constant, and the same for all maturity dates.

    Since it is very typical with such options that the employee cannot sell or exercise the option for several years, the model isn't ideal. But it's better than pure guesswork at the value.

  51. keep screwing the little guy by oliphaunt · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The reality was the stock options were used as employee comp but not counted as such [...] it was a crazy situation where your compensation really revolved around luck, when you got hired, what company you went to work for and how many options they gave you.

    that's kind of the point. This rule, just like every other rule made under the Bush administration, is about screwing the little guy at the expense of (a) large corporations, (b) financial institutions, or (c) extremely wealthy individuals. If you go to work for a very early-stage company, and you are one of the first, say, 20 employees, you are really taking a risk- becuase the odds are that your tiny company just won't be around in 5 years. If you have a two kids, a mortgage and a car payment, how do you think it would impact your life if the company you work for suddenly couldn't make payroll? That's right, even with six months' savings in the bank (which you don't have) and a $10k limit on your gold card (of which you've already used $7k), you're going to be scrambling to find work. If I'm going to risk my livelihood for a dream, I expect to be rewarded handsomely.

    But a small company can't afford to pay you more in cash than a company like Cisco or Oracle, so that small company needed a way to reward quality employees for hard work and loyalty. That's what stock option grants at startups were about- the company rewards its employees for taking a risk, but is legally still solvent. And yes- it does revolve around luck, and when you got in- becuase if you join a company as the 100th employee or the 1,000th employee, it should be clear that you're making a much safer bet than the 10th employee was when she joined. High risk, high reward.

    Under the new rules, there's no easy way to reward early-stage employees for their risk-taking except to pay them more cash. And until the company is doing well financially, an employer can't afford to do that. Catch-22.

    This rule change will make no difference to CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, becuase they'll still get paid $lots. It won't change the risk involved for institutional investing, so the i-bankers and vc's will still have the same issues to worry about. If anything, it will make the i-banker's job easier, becuase there is one less number they have to add to the financial statements if the reporting company is putting it in there for them already. It will slow down the progress of startup companies with disruptive technologies, becuase it will be harder for them to motivate quality people to leave their current employers. It's a minor accounting change for a Fortune-500 company, and death knell for the way that startups recruit talent... which is probably music to the ears of those F500 companies who can now pay their regular employees LESS because they don't have to worry about as much competition for their talent.

    It sounds like you were the beneficiary (in spades) of the old system- you of all people should recognize the upside! The only real impact this rule change will have is to make it more difficult for very early stage startups to attract and retain quality employees- which is great for everyone, except entrepreneurs, their early-stage startup companies, and their employees...

    --




    Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
    1. Re:keep screwing the little guy by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      The only real impact this rule change will have is to make it more difficult for very early stage startups to attract and retain quality employees- which is great for everyone, except entrepreneurs

      This is good for entrepreneurs. They will have to think harder about what ideas they launch. No more lemonade stands on the internet, oops guess that ideas sucks. Oh well, I just burned through 10 million in VC dollars, but that's why it was a corporation, no personal liability.
      In this situation, the workers are left holding the bag, the VC's are out money that could have funded ideas with real potential, and anyone with stock in the company lost their money.

      There's nothing to stop somebody from keeping their company privately owned and guaranteeing employees part ownership, this is a more honest and healthier way to run a company.

    2. Re:keep screwing the little guy by juicyfruit · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why this is an issue for startups. A 10-person company is going to be privately held, therefore there are no stockholders to punish the company when they report a huge stock-option expense (which they won't, because they don't have reporting requirements).

    3. Re:keep screwing the little guy by Oddhack · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. Companies can issue restricted stock grants, just for example. And expensing is certainly not a Big Win (TM) for "large corporations"; companies like Intel and Cisco will take a major earnings hit from option expensing. Which is why they've been fighting expensing so hard.

  52. FASB Accrediting- Sarbanes-Oxley by cbelt3 · · Score: 1

    FASB has been essentially accredited by the US Government, courtesty of Messrs Sarbanes and Oxley. As well as tossing a lot of money wasting BS at the rest of us. Sarbanes-Oxley- "A Jobs Program for Those Poor Big 3 Consulting Firms Who Pay our PAC Money !"
    Kind of like the Federal Reserve Bank is accredited by the US Gummint, but isn't part of it.

  53. Re:Hmmm... (mod parent up) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amen. Finance stories on slashdot just make me cringe sometimes. On the other hand, they help me understand how things like the .com boom were able to happen.

  54. Re:Fewer Startups by Duhavid · · Score: 1

    Its funny, you have a very good point. But so does the parent post to yours.

    It will be harder to start a company. I dont think I agree that there will be fewer failed startups, however. I dont see the connection, please explain.

    --
    emt 377 emt 4
  55. Misunderstanding of tax brackets by dinodriver · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think your post shows a misunderstanding of how tax brackets work. There is no benefit to "dropping down to a lower tax bracket." It sounds like you assume that if you are just into a higher bracket that you pay that rate on all your income. This is not true. You would pay that rate on just the amount of income that puts you over the limit into that bracket.

    For example, $70k is in the 25% bracket. $80k would be in the 28% bracket. One would only pay 28% on that last $10k and then pay 25% on about $10k and then pay 15% on about $40k and then nothing below that.

    Using stock losses to increase deductions and save taxes is a good idea that may work for some people. But it's not because it drops them down to a lower tax bracket.

  56. Re:Huge change... (maybe) by quarkscat · · Score: 1

    There is actually also another side to this
    story. I was working as a subcontractor to a
    large defense contractor (who shall remain
    unnamed). In the five years that I worked
    on that contract, my employer (who the defense
    contractor paid for my services) changed four
    times. One of the larger of my "new"
    employers offered me stock options after being
    there for 3 months -- the catch was that I had
    to exercise those options within 60 days. The
    strike price was, as I remember, about $25 per
    share. I declined to exercise those options.
    Very good thing that I did, too, because within
    6 weeks of the stock option offer, the company
    declared bankrupty and the stock price went to
    $00.25 per share.

    Sometimes it isn't only the outside investors
    that get screwed over by corporate management.
    I'm thinking of all those employees of Enron
    and of WorldCom that got rousing pep talks from
    their CEOs just before their stock tanked.

  57. Stock options? by smashin234 · · Score: 1

    For the lowly employee, stock options are a huge mistake anyway. For one thing, your salary is already tied up in the company you are working in.

    What happens if the company goes bust? You already lose your salary, so do you want to lose your options as well?

    Another thing, if you do not sell your options right away, they will devalue, or even go to nothing if the company declares bankrupcy.

    Stock options can be beneficial for CEO's who run the company into the ground after they make their millions, but in the end there is no good reason to not cash in your options. You should invest in many companies instead of just putting all of your eggs in one basket.

    So what does this article change for the common man? Nothing, except maybe there will be less stock options out there. IMO, this is for the best anyway for lowly wage earners.

  58. Time for shorting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Without the options, tech companies are going to be a little stinky now. Time for some good tech shorting.

    Plus, startups just outsource now. No more need for options.

  59. Valuing Pre-IPO vs. Public Corporations by billstewart · · Score: 1
    My company's been public for ~125 years, so there should have been enough information out there to value options using all the standard Black-Scholes models (except for that nasty telecomm industry crash that reduced them to wallpaper ;-)

    But most Silicon Valley stock options weren't that way - they were for pre-IPO companies developing The Next Cool Product, and valuing them for expense purposes was nearly impossible and certainly wildly inaccurate. If the product did in fact ship and turned out to be The Next Cool Product, they were worth a huge amount of money (unless it was the Next Uber-Cool Dotcom Product with No Business Model, in which case they were worthless); if the company folded or the product didn't sell, options were worthless, and if you were lucky, they were somewhere in between. My wife's last startup company valued their options at $3.00 the week she was allowed to exercise them, because that was the fictitious-VC-pricing number that week, so that's what we had to pay Alternative Minimum Tax on; they never did go public, and when they eventually sold off the intellectual property and a dozen people to another company, things got arranged so option-holders got 5 cents per share.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  60. Re:16th month? by daveo0331 · · Score: 1

    The problem of course is that it's ambiguous. Most people are smart enough to figure out what 22/11/99 means, even if they live in the U.S. However, if some company announces a product release date of 08/02/05, what does that mean? Next month? This summer? Three years from now?

    Unless your audience already knows what format you're using, it helps to write the date in a way that's unambiguous.

    --
    Remember the days when Republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility?
  61. And people complain.... by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    ... about technological lingo.

    Now I have a shinny example of obfuscated English language from another field of human knowledge.

    Well, I am guessing some knowledge is contained in the intro, because frankly I have fuck idea what they are talking about.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  62. NO! Don't allow it. by PierceLabs · · Score: 1

    Companies shouldn't be allowed to expensive giving an "option" to an employee. At best they should be able to expensive it ONLY when the employee excercises that option. When a company gives an employee an option to something that the employee may not want nor ever use, the company is getting a dumping ground write-off where as the employee STILL has to expend money AND pay taxes on the speculative venture.

    The only thing that businesses should have the ability to write off is actual tangible stock grants - not options. The value of an options is $0.00, so unless they are getting nothing in their writeoff it shouldn't be allowed.

  63. Next Comes the Tax Man by NotAnAccountant · · Score: 1

    OK, so I'm not an accountant, but I do know about "offsetting" ledger transactions. If we have an expence, doesn't that mean somewhere there's income. I fully expect that the tax man will decide that if the corporations must account for options as "expenses", then, to the receiver (you and me) it must be income --- Ah, another chance to collect some income taxes....

    1. Re:Next Comes the Tax Man by Tropic+Lightning · · Score: 1

      This is already the case. It's called capital gains. When the optionee exercises, he/she incurs a tax liability for the difference between their grant or stike price and the market price at time of exercise.

  64. Not as important as one might think by rmcd · · Score: 1

    Since 1994 companies have been estimating the value of their compensation options and reporting this as a footnote in their annual reports. For example in Microsoft's 1999 annual report, you can easily tell that option grants that year amounted to $1.6 billion ($52,000 per employee), and the value of outstanding options was $69 billion ($2 million per employee; yes, that's correct).

    So while it's true that earnings have been overstated, it has been possible to track the value of options and correct earnings. Joe Sixpack investor may not have been making this correction, but professional investors should have been doing it.

    I advocate expensing, but it won't be the huge substantive issue it's being made out to be. These numbers haven't been a secret in the past.

  65. Re:Ho hum... maybe. by cgori · · Score: 1

    An ESOP (employee stock option plan) is a radically different animal than the options that are traded at the CBOE and you can get quoted on Yahoo Finance.

    The ESOP (or ISO, incentive stock option) is not a liquid security for one (i.e. you can't just call up Schwab and sell them your options). Black-Scholes is designed to model a freely traded derivative type of option, so a lot of the parameters that go into the model are going to be fudge-factor-central when the thing you are trying to model doesn't really fit the model...

    That's why they are thinking of changing the model for ISO/ESOP (Employee Stock Option Plans).

    This whole change really only affects employees of public companies. Early-stage startups have accounting that barely makes any sense to begin with, they are running at a huge loss usually since no revenues but paying salary means loss -- the people who acquire or fund such companies are already going to be familiar with the accounting and have ways to adjust their pro forma estimates accordingly.

    It's going to screw the rank and file at Fortune 1000 tech firms most likely. You may find your options go away, you get less of them, they are given to fewer people, or you get restricted stock awards instead (which have much worse tax consequences for the employee, and less flexibility, but are more determistic for the company's financial statements).

    As an investor, I cheer. As a potential employee, it sucks. Guess it's back to the early-stage startups for me again... :)

  66. Here's a model for pricing these options properly by GlobalEcho · · Score: 1

    I have previously ranted about the valuation of these options here on Slashdot. I realize that such is not in the Slashdot tradition, but rather than continuing to just rant, I actually spent some time this weekend to do something about the problem.

    Since I am a quant, I created a model (released at my public website under the GPL) for pricing employee stock options properly. Or at least more properly than people are doing right now. Much as I dislike working in Excel and VB, I decided they were the way to reach the widest audience of accountants, so the model is in VB and I included an Excel spreadsheet.

    Let's hope the accountants find this model and start using it. FASB 123 requests that they use Black-Scholes or a binomial variation. It's time they did it right!

    Moderators, I realize it's late in the game for such a post, but I really hope this model or a similar one improves the accounting standards in this country...I could use a little love. Thanks!

  67. One experts view... by fferret · · Score: 1

    My wife, a CPA/CFA had this to say when I emailed her the link to the article. I include her response her for information: "Should options be counted against revenue in the period for which they are given? Most of the time, I think -- yes. People measure their compensation here and now. It is important for the company to do likewise. I don't think geeks really see their options down the road, they think of them in the present tense, hence, they are a current expense."

    --
    We're through being cool! Eliminate the ninnies and the twits! -Devo
  68. All stocks aren't the same by CptNerd · · Score: 1
    You have to be careful exercising stock options, as well. A friend of mine worked for a company and received a lot of stock options before the company went public. The options were for something like $3 per share, when the company went public the stock went up as high as $100, so she exercised some of her options. The problem for her (and others there) was that the stock she received was not common stock, which meant she couldn't turn around and sell the stock for the currently traded price. The company controlled when and how much of that "non-convertible" stock could be sold by employees, and so she had lots of shares of stock that, had they ben convertible, would have been worth several hundreds of thousands, but she was not allowed to sell it for that amount. The company finally bought back some non-convertible stock, but only after it had fallen to less than $40/share. The thing is, the employees weren't told that the stock was going to be non-convertible when the options were given. Bottom line, check the options agreement closely.

    Personally, I work as an independent contractor, and I never have to worry about bogus 'compensation' like stock options and "health benefits."

    Going back to the Google example, if three years from now Google traded at or below $50 / share, your option would be worthless and you would have nothing. That is why you might want to consider getting paid in cash VS. getting paid in options.


    BTW, my friend in the above example was held liable by the IRS for the value of the stock at exercise time for all unsold stock, even though the stock by the time she could sell it was worth far less than the value when she exercised it.

    Cap.
    --
    By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
  69. high option expense = poor operating performance by Tropic+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Greetings. I am new here, but not at all new to the subject at hand. Having read many of your posts concerning employee stock option (ESO) expensing, I can only say most of you are at least partially wrong in how you interpret the impact and significance of this looming change. There are many companies out there, whose truly pathetic operating performance will be laid bare. In particular, I am amazed at how some of you think options grants have no impact on the books. They have an enormous impact. In fact, I could rattle off several companies that, without their ESOs, would not even be cash-flow positive. The combination of exercise cash (paid by optionees) and tax deduction (equal to the delta between exercise and market prices at time of exercise) is the only way many companies could even stay in business. Yahoo is one that we all know. Sounds like a good trick, but is this the kind of company you want to invest in? Of course not. If a company, years after going public, still cannot generate a postive operating cash flow without selling more and more dillutive stock to boardmembers, executives and employees -- at below market value -- who then promptly dump these dillutive shares on sharholders, perhaps the company shouldn't be in business. There is no doubt in my mind that, as this issue gains broader understanding, the market at large will find it has grossly misallocated capital, and there will be an efficient reallocation. June 15 is the effective date, but I doubt big money will wait for everyone to gain understanding. I expect they are already "reallocatiing" and that may even be part of the markets decline of the last few weeks. Some big-name companies we all know are going to be punished severely. And they deserve it for the heretofore legal ponzi scheme they've been perpetrating. If any of you are familiar with Broadcom (BRCM), they are the worst ESO-abuser our research has uncovered so far. It would not surpise me to see their stock in single digits within nine months. I welcome comments and questions.