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Saturn V Preservation Efforts
PizzaFace writes "Saturn V: The rocket that took man to the moon remains a totem of its time and a magnificent memento of youthful superpower. Yet Slashdot reported a year ago on the neglect suffered by the Saturn V rockets that were not launched into space. Some progress is being made toward preserving these awesome vehicles. The Kennedy Space Center has already brought its Saturn in from the rain; Houston and Huntsville are putting shelters up this year and working on funding for restoration and more permanent indoor exhibits. These gigantic masterpieces of 20th century engineering deserve a visit - maybe a pilgrimage."
The Saturns are absolutely incredible. Currently they are (have been) out in the open along with several other rockets, including Redstone and others from the early days of NASA. Several engines are also outside where one can walk around them. It was after a pilgrimage there that my now 13 year old announced that he wanted to become an aerospace engineer.
To those making the pilgrimage, a trip to Space Center, adjacent to the Johnson Space Center complex is also an absolute must do, especially if you have offspring.
We visited a few years ago and it's great to see it inside. An awesome display. If you are inspired by things mechanical and have never visited - go!
What strikes most people who stand next to it is how *big* it is. Yes it is big on the scale of a human. Maybe I'm weird, but what struck me was how *small* it is. It can go to the Moon and come back, yet it's smaller than a freight train.
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Admittedly, preserving the Saturn is worthwhile, but how about you keep the general public excited about space by doing something new, instead of putting the past into prettier showcases?
I think the Tang Saturn V Storage Facility would be much more appropriate!
NASA had several designs that were larger than the Saturn V that never made it into production. Most of them were called Nova something or other. One of them used 8 F1 motors in the first stage (compared to 5 for the Saturn V).
Re the account, I didn't need to get one, not sure how that worked...
Re the funding, they're floating a loan, NASA's kicking in part of the gate from the Canaveral visitor's center, they're selling vanity license plates and some other stuff.
I'm sure I missed something, but that's the caffeine deprivation talking.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
As one of the many thousand people who work at Johnson Space Center, I have watched them enclose our Saturn V over the past few months. All of us are quite appalled.
Where I once came to work next to a giant reminder of NASA's past accomplishments (or rather, left for lunch by it, as I usually come in via the back gate), now I only see a big, white, ugly building. Where once tourists could stand back in awe as they took in the rocket's size, now they have to peer through windows at it.
A permanent building housing our Saturn V will surely protect it better from the elements... but it wrecks the whole reason for having it there in the first place.
A better preservation program would have three steps:
1. Commit the money needed to re-paint it once every 10 years.
2. Inspect it once a year for structural problems; repair those as they arise.
3. Do something worth doing and go someplace worth going, so that our most impressive accomplishment is not a 30 year old rocket.
... will they also include in the exhibit the Hollywood studio where they shot the lunar landing?
Just
Sure the rocket is impressive, the most powerful machine every created.
But standing still its just a great big tube. Having seen the one at Kennedy, its just not that impressive as a static thing. When it was running then sure, what a beast.
But what about the tech that REALLY got man to the moon. Saturn V is just a big WWII rocket, the thing that made the difference was the IBM computing "power" that directed the thing.
I'd love to see the old mission control re-built with the original style technology, and simulate the information going into it. Imagine a school trip where you had to solve the same problem as for Apollo 13, or making the error over-ride decision of Apollo 11.
It wouldn't even really matter if it was just running on one PC behind the scene as long as you got the experience of how limited the power was.
Firing a rocket is grease monkey impressive. Getting it to hit the moon is the achievement.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
The Kennedy Space Flight Center museum is up and running. I visited it two weeks ago. The museum is supported by admission fees; no tax dollars are involved. The Saturn is in a complex that includes the original Apollo launch control center, and part of the tour is a recreation of the Apollo 8 launch, which was the first Saturn V lanuch. I took lots of pictures; this was the most powerful engine built, after all, though I think the Delta 4 Heavy might be more powerful.
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The Saturn V rockets deserved to be launched into space, not converted to lawn ornaments to become luxury housing for gnomes.
bkd
Germans, they were such bastards, but they made such bloody good rockets....
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
First, the things we build can barely last a few decades without being destroyed by something as simple as weather.
Second, we're so short sited that we cannot see the value protecting our own history.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Here's some inglorious snaps of the Kennedy Space Center preservation of the Saturn V that I did back in the "bad old days" of using only a 3MP digital.
To say the least, it is an awesome job that they did. In Huntsville, there are two Saturn V's, albeit one erect, the other on it's side. Both are outside. I have photos of those too, and will put them on my site tonight. Check back if you are interested.
All dominant civilizations do have a history of worshipping phalluses.
Just a note from a Huntsvillian: there are actually two Saturn V's on display in the Huntsville area. The one getting the big bucks for restoration is within Huntsville city limits on the grounds of the US Space and Rocket Center.
The other is actually at a state-owned rest stop on I-65, 20 or so miles north-west (as the crow flies) of Huntsville. It's at the welcome-center when crossing the Alabama/Tennessee border.
While the rocket on display at the USSRC may need restoration, the one at the rest-stop is in awful shape. Too bad the state is too cash-scrapped to even think about touching that one.
Oddly enough as I sit here and read this, I am in my Florida hotel. I just visited the KSC yesterday. I must say there facility for the Saturn V is impressive.
;)
After being treated to a movie and a simulated launch on the real (not mock) Launch Control hardware, you get to walk through the door and take in this enormous machine. I must say, the craft is pristine. Aside from a tiny bit of rust on the Escape Tower, the paint and metal body is perfect. A big piece of history preserved the way it should be.
I would assume that future plans for the other Saturn Vs would be similar though I don't know the difference in annual visitors between the other two centers and if it would be worth it to do such a grandiose thing for 2 more of them.
Perhaps they could just truck the other 2 to Florida and expand the exhibit?
Anyway, I just want to say, if you're a geek on vacation in Florida, Kennedy Space Center is pretty killer and a must-see.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
For all those people who are thinking or posted, "what's the big deal?" or "The rocket is just a big tube with chemical propellent." Think again. I used to be one of these people.
Since I have children, pilgrimages to the Orlando area once every couple of years has become requisite because of a certain multi-national entertainment conglomerate that happens to be very good at marketing to children. On a recent trip, I insisted that we all go to the Kennedy Space Center for a visit while we were there. Everybody was not too enthusastic about losing an entire day at the theme parks to drive an hour and a half to the coast just to see a "bigger airport".
Once we got there, it was amazing how people's opinions changed, but the biggest hit of the day was the multimedia presentation and tour of the indoor Saturn V rocket. I was skeptical myself as to how entertaining this portion of the visit would be, but it was by-far the best part of the KSC tour. The way they have this thing mounted allows you to walk under the rocket. Also, at each of the separation joints, they separated the components so you can see the machinery and technology that made the rocket work. It was like walking into the garage where they keep one of the baddest vehicles know to man and someone opens the hood for your inspection.
I highly recommend the bus tour of the Kennedy Space Center if you are remotely close to it. It is one of the best ways to gain insight of how those things actually flew. (Not to mention all the other cool things you'll see like the Shuttle Launch Facillity and the ISS Fabrication Facillity.) As far as preservation of the other Saturn Vs, if they are trying to build something similar to what is in KSC, then I'm all for it.
"Ahhhh, best laid plans of mice and men... and Cookie Monster." -- Cookie Monster, Sesame Street
The last documentary I saw mentioned that the designs for them were destroyed as part of some deal in building the shuttle. In other words, NASA currently has no launch vehicles powerful enough to even send people to the moon, forget all the talk about Mars. Shuttles: Just say no to vehicle recycling.
vi? Who's that?
My alma mater, California State University, Fresno, had was was supposed to be a Saturn V motor out in front of one of it's buildings. By the time I was there in 1990-1994 it was hidden in the midst of some low-traffic buildings.
:)
Supposedly it was moved because it looked too much like a missile engine and missiles are for war, and that's bad.
I remember taking my girlfriend at the time who was a reporter for the campus newspaper to go see it. She had no idea it was even there. Yeah, she dug it -- shows that geeks really can attract girls
It was in pretty bad shape out in the elements at all, but it was impressive. I often wonder if it's still there a decade later, or if the weeds have clamed it.
But what about the tech that REALLY got man to the moon. Saturn V is just a big WWII rocket, the thing that made the difference was the IBM computing "power" that directed the thing.
You might say the the monster SIC stage was of WWII vintage, though the F1 engines were gigantic and employed innovative turbomachinery and cooling. It was designed by Von Braun's V2 team. The SII and SIVB H2/O2 stages were truly revolutionary. They are the main reason why the Saturn V had such a huge payload mass fraction (3.8%). As you say, the IBM instrument and guidance programming were also of tremendous importance. There were several instances of 'engine out' during Apollo and all events were smartly handled by the IU.
an ill wind that blows no good
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Most of us here on Slashdot weren't around back then. I wasn't, but I think it's amazing still.
Ahh, Tang... and Space Food Sticks. Those were the days!
Hmm...so you didn't take the time necessary to connect your children with history. Obviously, it's not your fault...they've got the darn Nintendo.
I'm glad you weren't my parent.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
If you want to get a better idea of what it takes to restore a mighty Saturn V, I have on my website an article from the December 1996/ January 1997 issue of Smithsonian Air & Space Magazine an article that details the efforts involved in restoring the one in Florida.
The same company is being tapped for the Huntsville Saturn V and I would imagine the one in Texas, also.
The Google cache of the first page (my poor little website can't afford a Slashdotting) can be found here and the second page will load from my site, but at least I've cut my load in half.
People should read this.
And after you do, feel free to make a donation to help save the Saturn V Werner von Braun left the U.S. Space & Rocket Center
I know that thing...I practically grew up in the shadows of the one at the Johnson Space Center. I've also seen the one that they put indoors at the Kennedy Space Center. Those things are impressive.
That said, I know the dilapadated state that the one in Clear Lake (man, I'm giving away my location: most people don't know that Johnson is in Clear Lake, not Houston) is in, and I can imagine that the one in Huntsville isn't in much better shape. It's rather sad to see this magnificent device that could take three people to the moon and return them safely in such a state.
I mean, I grew up imagining myself in the command module of that thing, on a revived moon mission (granted, they'd probably update some of the computer controls, but the general design philosophy would be exactly what one would need to make the return...wonder if the Chineese have thought about that). I'd love for my kids to be able to do the same thing, assuming that I make the decision to reproduce.
Now, if only they'd re-open most of Johnson Space Center to the public. After Disney took over tourist management, it's really not the same there. I remember the coolness that was Building 2 on that campus. It used to be the visitor's center. I also remember being able to eat in the same cafeteria with the engineers and astronauts training for their next missions, being able to walk into the gallery in building 31A at will except during an hour window during launch, during which it was filled with press (that's Mission Control for those not in the know), and just watching the ground control while they were doing their jobs. It was quite amazing, honestly. As a young child, it fueled my imagination more than what the current setup can do.
Haec merda tauri est. Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
When I worked for Intergraph in the 80's, they threw a big employee party and flew all of us into Huntsville. The party was at the Space and Rocket Center where Alan Shepard gave a keynote and we all got to meet him and Wally Schirra closeup. We had the run of the place and the most breathtaking exhibit was the Saturn V. They had the telemetry ring inside the building so you could get really close and see all the detail. It was amazing. Another lasting memory was taking the bus to see the Saturn V engine test stand. They said when they tested those engines, it rattled windows miles away!