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World's First BTX Mini-PC

Posted by Hemos on from the getting-smaller-like-the-reverse-of-spam dept.

CTZ writes "We have direct information from CES 2005 show floor that covers Shuttle's first BTX Mini-PC. It's also the world's first BTX system ever displayed. "Shuttle also had a rather sizable booth with an entire line of their products displayed, as it can be seen from the images throughout this article. Perhaps the most important interesting product they had on the show floor was the world's first XPC based on Intel's BTX standard. Shuttle is looking to make the system affordable, so they have decided to use steel for the chassis instead of aluminum. According to Shuttle, this will bring the cost of the XPC system down by $130.00. The only downside, as some may perceive it, is that the BTX XPC system will be 1" wider than regular XPCs, but regardless, you can expect the same quality from Shuttle."

87 of 135 comments (clear)

  1. Thanks editors for doing your job! by garcia · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Throughout the article? Either you are exaggerating beyond the normal limits of exaggeration or I am missing something here... I see exactly TWO images. One of a LCD panel and one of a square box that has some sort of tray (DVDRW/CDRW?). Woohoo!

    Let's not forget that the "article" is little more than a press release about a product that saves you $130! Saves me $130 from what? $1000? $2000? $more? Let's make sure that the editors do some weeding out of blatant advertising of crap next time.

    This "article" didn't tell me much about the product, really didn't like anywhere but to other advertisements, and left me guessing.

    Thanks for posting this to the main page. I really appreciate it.

    1. Re:Thanks editors for doing your job! by LoadStar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Agreed. I went back to the article twice because I thought I might have missed some hidden "read more" or "more pictures here" link. Nope. Just about as much info in the summary as in the article itself, and two lousy pictures. Wa-hoo.

    2. Re:Thanks editors for doing your job! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I agree, I've submitted much better articles in the past week, only to have them rejected. Sometimes it's really bad: 1 article was rejected within 60 seconds of submission, yet 24 hours later someone else gets a similar article with less information accepted.

    3. Re:Thanks editors for doing your job! by slaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Since most XPCs run between $250 and $400, $130 is a very substantial savings. I like the XPC form factor for some things (not as HTPCs - I want components that match my AV equipment, but as office machines), but I've found the cost off-putting compared to traditional case, PSU and motherboard arrangements.

      --
      -- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
    4. Re:Thanks editors for doing your job! by grazzy · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's posted to slashdot by the same guy who runs the website. What do you expect? :)

    5. Re:Thanks editors for doing your job! by Squatchman · · Score: 1

      The trick is to spin your article with an Anti-microsoft(M$ if you prefer) shtick. Should that not necessarily be your thing, then a simple pro-linux/OSS agenda will usually suffice.

    6. Re:Thanks editors for doing your job! by dj245 · · Score: 1

      What do expect when the submitter of the story "CTZ" is obviously behind the site "http://www.cooltechzone.com". I mean, with all this blatant advertising for http://www.cooltechzone.com, you'd think someone would have spotted the link between "CTZ" and http://www.cooltechzone.com. Or maybe not.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    7. Re:Thanks editors for doing your job! by mogalpha · · Score: 1

      Is parent really that insightful? Granted, this was not the greatest article ever posted, and the link's title was fairly misleading, but taken holistically, this article was very correct in pointing out:

      Perhaps the most important interesting product they had on the show floor was the world's first XPC based on Intel's BTX standard.

      IMO, this was informative enough, and well worth the read, as I am both a shuttle owner and interested in the future of BTX.

    8. Re:Thanks editors for doing your job! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      Your information is obsolete.

      Just mention iPod in your submission and it will be accepted.

    9. Re:Thanks editors for doing your job! by garcia · · Score: 1

      IMO, this was informative enough, and well worth the read, as I am both a shuttle owner and interested in the future of BTX.

      Then you know what a BTX is, how much a system based on it should cost, what it normall looks like, what it normally includes, probably know links to external information on the product, etc.

      Me? I had no idea what it was and I expected an "article" to at least give me some background on that.

      The title and the summary were misleading and included ONLY information already included in the advertisement itself. Perhaps the submitter should have done some background legwork and posted that along with this summary of the summary?

      If the submitter doesn't and the editorial staff really thinks that a short blurb with two pictures is important enough to post to the main page of Slashdot they should have done the background legwork for him.

      They didn't really add ANYTHING to the summary (if anything at all) because they couldn't find a place to interject their political commentary on an completely unrelated topic.

      Next time ignore submissions that are vague, worthless, and blatant advertisements. If you are being paid for the posting of the submission let us know so we can ignore the bullshit completely.

    10. Re:Thanks editors for doing your job! by SassyDave · · Score: 1

      Good points by parent. Here's another gem from TFA:

      The pioneer of the industry has plans to become the top most leaders, which they already are, this year.

      What?

    11. Re:Thanks editors for doing your job! by CrkHead · · Score: 1

      Or you could spend less time and do a quick search. Link

    12. Re:Thanks editors for doing your job! by hawk · · Score: 1


      Let's not forget that the "article" is little more than a press release

      Nah. Folks rarely refer to their product as "tainted" in a press release . . .

      hawk

  2. Weight? by eln · · Score: 3, Informative

    Won't steel add weight to the thing?

    Also, the one and only experience I've had with Shuttles was when the one we had had its power supply fail. Hardly a good statistical sampling, but it was fairly new, so I personally have a negative view of Shuttle quality, but I may be in the minority on that one.

    1. Re:Weight? by anakin876 · · Score: 1

      What sort of warranty did they offer? Did they replace it right away? How helpful were they? Those would be my questions especially considering the fact that this may be an insolated incident. On the other hand, this may be quite frequent. If so, then the quality of their service would be meaningless.

    2. Re:Weight? by Squatchman · · Score: 4, Funny

      It isn't heavy enough until I can kill my cat with it.

    3. Re:Weight? by Jarlsberg · · Score: 1

      I've had my Shuttle for well over a year, without problems. Well, last week the 80GB SATA Maxtor disk in it crashed and burned, but while I suspect heat buildup inside the Shuttle to be part of the cause, it might just have been a bad HD. ;)

    4. Re:Weight? by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2, Funny

      So it would have to be at least as heavy as a collapsing wave form?

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    5. Re:Weight? by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      If you lock your cat inside a Shuttle XPC, is the cat alive or dead?

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    6. Re:Weight? by zrail · · Score: 1

      Not until it stops thrashing.

    7. Re:Weight? by mr_z_beeblebrox · · Score: 1

      It isn't heavy enough until I can kill my cat with it.

      you might be young so I will cut you some slack. Experience shows that it is not weight but rather ballistics that is most important. Therefore a properly launched PDA will indeed kill your cat, while a poorly dropped server may only maim her.
      Good luck with your cat!

    8. Re:Weight? by MaynardJanKeymeulen · · Score: 1

      If it's Erwin's cat, you can't know!

      --
      "The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck is the day they make a vacuum cleaner."
    9. Re:Weight? by Jarlsberg · · Score: 1
      I've only had problems with excess heat in the Shuttle computers I've put together when a beefy video card has been added. It seems that a Radeon 9800 Pro tends to overwork the puny power supply, which adds to the heat that the video card itself is putting out. I've never had any of the components fail, but it's warmer than I'm comfortable with. God forbid you stick one of Intel's Prescott processors in too.
      I'm actually really impressed by the cooling system in the Shuttle. I've got a P4 in it, and while it does get hot in there, it doesn't seem to get too hot for comfort. However, I haven't tried putting in a gamer's video card in it, just a Matrox Millennium P650 (for the dual screen, 2d quality it delivers). As you observed, a high powered gfx card would tax the PSU too much and generate too much heat. I looked at getting a new PSU for it, but it was far too expensive last time I checked.
  3. At least the article was honest... by RandoX · · Score: 1, Funny

    Please stay tuned for more interesting coverage of the show floor...

    ...Because we know it couldn't be less interesting than this report.

  4. How big IS this thing? by fuzzy12345 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Given the relative prices of aluminum and steel, I'm picturing something the size of my desk! How can aluminum vs. steel construction represent a price difference of over $100?

    --

    Everybody's a libertarian 'till their neighbour's becomes a crack house.
    1. Re:How big IS this thing? by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      Basically, because they can charge that much. Its ludicrous, and aluminum is a cheaper substance overall. People think they need the added cooling that aluminum provides and the manufacturers are quick to trump that claim up (this 'thermal conductivity' theory is even promoted by ESR's guide on buying PC parts). The markup on these things is huge, because everyone's excited about smaller computers that fit nicely in your home theater. What they fail to mention, is that you certainly can't fit an ATi Radeon 9800 Pro inside that thing.

      Ironically, this thing is tiny. But if they made a plastic one, they wouldn't be able to sell it for more than 100 dollars. Where's competition when you need it? Or at least, a newegg category?

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    2. Re:How big IS this thing? by capsteve · · Score: 1

      actually, "new" aluminum is more expensive to process that steel. scrape aluminum, on the other hand, is very cheap in comparison, partly because of the cost involved in seperating the impurities prior to the smelting process.

      yeah, steel is heavier, but it does have some advantages that aluminum lacks. it's easier to weld, it has magnetic properties, and it's more pliable than aluminum...

      --
      three can keep a secret, if two are dead - benjamin franklin
    3. Re:How big IS this thing? by nine-times · · Score: 1
      yeah, steel is heavier, but it does have some advantages that aluminum lacks. it's easier to weld, it has magnetic properties, and it's more pliable than aluminum...

      So maybe that's where the savings to Shuttle come from? Not materials, but production costs?

    4. Re:How big IS this thing? by Moofie · · Score: 1

      I'll believe the savings when I see them, rather than when they're speculated on by a trade show hack.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    5. Re:How big IS this thing? by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      Well, the guy at microcenter indicated that he was considering an radeon but it wont fit into the shuttle case he wants to use. I was considering the shittle cases, but they're so damn expensive its hard to justify.

      The pictures of the sapphire look much shorter than the ATi Radeon; perhaps you've got a smaller radeon? (lucky!)

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    6. Re:How big IS this thing? by capsteve · · Score: 1

      a little of both, actually...
      i remember drinking pop from glass bottles. the returned bottles had to go thru some type of cleaning process before refilled. this had to cost labor+time=money for the manufacturer.

      welding aluminum products requires inert gas(argon). the out gassing of vaporized aluminum is poisonous, and aluminum does burn under the right circumstances. pressure molding steel (bent/rolled edges) is easier because it doesn't crack as easily as aluminum. in fact steel can be manipulated in turn of the 20th century process. aluminum requires a little more current(and pricier) processes.

      back to the xpc... i doubt that the change from aluminum to steel will affect the overall weight of the xpc. we're probably talking 3-6 oz. increase. i'll trade 6 oz. for a $100 any day.

      --
      three can keep a secret, if two are dead - benjamin franklin
    7. Re:How big IS this thing? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Steel needs shielding as well. Typically in the form of Ar/CO2 (75-25) for GMAW and GTAW process, and flux for SMAW process. That isn't really the issue. Like you say, the issue is that steel is easier to form with presses, brakes, etc.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  5. In other CES news... by Leomania · · Score: 2, Funny

    One class of products seen on the floor at CES that has generated a lot of interest is the SEX (Slashdot-Effect eXterminator) that promises to end the near instantaneous meltdown caused by the DDoS^H^H^H^H heavy loads placed upon sites linked to by that "News for Nerds" site.

    "See that big hole in the side there?" asks Ned Farblestrom of BlackHole Technologies, pointing to a 3/4 inch hole in the side of the case. "That's where we hook up a big fat pipe to handle the load. Those Slashdotters won't be able to fill that up!"

    --
    You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
    1. Re:In other CES news... by dunng808 · · Score: 1

      I hate to break it to you, but this is a product you will never see around here, because everyone knows that /. geeks never have any. Oddly enough, I never swore an oath to celibacy, I never sought such a state, yet here I am, in the land of nothing down under. Maybe it IS the electromagnetic fields ...

      --

      Gary Dunn
      Open Slate Project

  6. For want of better information by asliarun · · Score: 3, Informative

    here's an Anandtech article on BTX:-
    http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=187 6

    1. Re:For want of better information by albn · · Score: 2, Informative

      The specs look pretty nice, but Shuttle does not list a price on the web site. So, I looked on Google and found a price on ZipZoomFly's web site. For $449, I have to say that is not a bad price at all although I would think other places will have nicer designs for a better price. As for the article, it is not available at the moment, but oh well, it does not seem it is worth looking at anyway judging from the posts here.

      Also, I have to agree about the steel case... yikes. I suppose if you add some brackets you can bolt it on your desk to make sure nobody walks away with your new BTX form factor box. :D

      Thanks for the other article... it is much better.
      --
      Some call me Howie Feltersnatch
    2. Re:For want of better information by delta_avi_delta · · Score: 1

      ...until you get to: Integrated graphics...

    3. Re:For want of better information by spectre_240sx · · Score: 1

      Looks like it has a PCI Express slot though, so you can change that pretty quickly.

  7. A Much Better Article by Hack+Jandy · · Score: 5, Informative

    Again, AnandTech saves the day

    BTX: http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i =2317&p=15
    Shuttle: http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i =2317&p=6

    More Shuttle: http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i =2317&p=5

    God forbid CTX actually covered the show instead of just rewriting press releases...

    1. Re:A Much Better Article by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Looking at the "More Shuttle" link you gave, I have one thing to say...

      *drool*

      Shuttle DID say they would do a P-M XPC, after all, didn't they?

  8. Steel saves $130? WTF? by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Shuttle is looking to make the system affordable, so they have decided to use steel for the chassis instead of aluminum. According to Shuttle, this will bring the cost of the XPC system down by $130.00.

    Can someone explain to me how in the hell this can be so? Even with a 3x markup, that's $43. There is absolutely no way that a switch to steel can save that much money. $10 maybe, but not $130. Someone is pissing on our backs and telling us it's raining.

    --
    "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
  9. "You can expect the same quality from Shuttle..." by dpbsmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's Slashvertising plain and simple.

    --

    "How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!

  10. Image mirrors (and some more pics from shuttle) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ok, the article is hardly loading for me.. so here are some mirrors of the 2 images from this article and some other images from some other article about the Shuttle stand (I forget where that was, thanks to the original site whoever it was).

    Link
    Link

    and from the other article...

    Link
    Link
    Link
    Link
    Link

  11. Steel? by phyruxus · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I'm surprised that using steel instead of aluminum would cut $130 off the price. Aluminum only costs about $0.83/lb. Does it cost a lot to shape or something? I'd expect the harder steel to cost more to work.

    Steel is stronger so maybe they could use less, and not add too much weight. Of course every ounce they add will cost someone in shipping.

    Anyone know why switching to steel saves so much $?

    --
    "A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
    "d'Oh!" ~Homer
    1. Re:Steel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Geeks pay much more for aluminum because their 1337-masters tell them it affects performance.

    2. Re:Steel? by LiENUS · · Score: 1

      Steel is stronger so maybe they could use less, and not add too much weight. Of course every ounce they add will cost someone in shipping.

      I wouldn't count on that too much. Alluminum preassure tanks are much larger than steel preassure tanks, but with half the weight. A steel case half the size should weigh at least twice as much as the alluminum one and yet they are making these steel cases 1 inch wider, so it soundsl ike theres more mass, not less.

  12. "Small Form Factor"??? by jo42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is it me, or are not these so called "small form factor" machines getting bigger and bigger? To the point that they take up as much room, if not more, as compared to what we used to call a "medium tower case"? Hmmm??

    1. Re:"Small Form Factor"??? by Squatchman · · Score: 1

      The footprint is almost there, if not already the same. The height is what they're pushing now I imagine.

      As long as they keep the costs down they will continue to appeal to their market, but I personally like having the storage/device options that a large case affords. Nothing says "piece of mind" like knowing that you can slap another harddrive/Burner into a case instead of using an external enclosure.

  13. zmaxdp by pr0nbot · · Score: 1

    Also note, in other small form-factor PC news, that UK co Armari are now shipping the iwill zmaxdp dual-opteron SFF PC:

    overview
    customise

  14. Now worldwide? by mccalli · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From the article:

    In North America alone, Shuttle retails around 10,000 XPC systems per month and now they are getting a demand from consumers throughout the world. Because of the demand, Shuttle has decided to retail their XPC systems to the European and Brazilian markets.

    I've had a Shuttle system on my desk for the last two and a half years, and I'm in the UK.

    I always liked the idea and looks, but dislike the noise - I don't know how more recent models compare (I have an SB51G) and would be interested to, err, hear...

    Cheers,
    Ian

    1. Re:Now worldwide? by Moridineas · · Score: 3, Informative

      I had one of the very early shuttle models--FX25 or something that like, and it was loud as hell. Now we're using a bunch of SS51G's I think is the model, P4's, at work, and you can barely hear them, period. They're great.

    2. Re:Now worldwide? by Drathos · · Score: 1

      I've got a SN45G (v2 variant, not the v3 here which only seems to add SATA and change the sound chipset) and it's quite a bit quieter on normal load that my Antec 660AMG that it's sitting on. Occasionally, the fan will go full speed during some heavy compiling, but then it's only slightly louder than the Antec.

      --
      End of line..
    3. Re:Now worldwide? by AntEater · · Score: 1

      You did set the fan to automatically adjust it's speed based on the case/cpu temp? It's a setting in the BIOS. If not, I think it will run full speed which could be a little bit loud if it were sitting right on your desktop. I have eight XPC's at work (as a cluster) and a couple at home. They all run very quietly.

      --
      Alex, I'll take keybindings not used by Emacs for $400....
  15. Worthless by shamowfski · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hey Look! I'm playing Duke Nukem Forever on my BTX form factor PC. Thanks to 3DRealms and Intel for making this possible...

    1. Re:Worthless by BaldGhoti · · Score: 1

      Let me guess--you're running on a 4GHz processor and using Longhorn as your OS?

      --
      [insert witty sig here]
    2. Re:Worthless by shamowfski · · Score: 1

      Yep, and my case is made out of turbonium. It's t3h fastz0rz...

  16. you can expect the same quality from Shuttle. by commo1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Quality? From SHUTTLE? These are the guys who send wave after wave of CPU destroying VRMs on their boards. 6 months, dead CPU...

    1. Re: you can expect the same quality from Shuttle. by commo1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      For a simple home server, I'd recommend the following: AOpen (yes, AOpen, they use SPI power supplies, very tough) 340D cases, very nice and reasonably well made for a good price. or: Antec ARIA case, a bit more expensive, but quiet, and very cool looking, also cool temeperature wise because of the aluminum construction. Asus or Intel motherboard. Believe it or not, the Intel boards are reasonably priced (at least when compared to Tier I like Asus, Supermicro, etc....) Then, you can pick and choose other components such as HD, optical drives, etc.... and chances are you're not going got get stuck with a Realtek NIC on-board. For what it's worth, we build industrial servers and CPE PCs for companies deploying all across North America and the world. In their case, an extra $100 on a system for increased MTBF is worth it.... not sure what your case is. As far as the shuttle stuff, we've noticed a huge number of these coming back over the years. We stopped selling them long ago because of inital quality, but out-of-warranty claims from the competition on personal use has been staggering lately with regard to the voltage regulators in front of the CPU.... litteraly, they blow the CPUs because of bad regulation and introduction of off-frequency ripple.

    2. Re: you can expect the same quality from Shuttle. by coso · · Score: 1

      ^ I'd mod you up if I had the points. Shuttles have always been near the bottom of my components list. If price was the only consideration they beat buying them an e-machine in terms of quality. If you get a good shuttleboard you're fine, but when they're having a flakey bout you can easily go thru 2-3 in a row that mostly work for a while. It's the kind of time eater I can't deal with and make money.

    3. Re: you can expect the same quality from Shuttle. by chrome · · Score: 2, Informative

      Have to agree with you here.

      Got two dead shuttles littering my living room. I ended up ripping the CPU out of my A64 one and putting it into a normal mobo and its been working fine since then.

      I like the form factor, but none of the manufacturers are making very reliable kit. If you want reliable, try Asus or Gigabyte mobos in a standard case.

      The small form factor sure looks cute, but its not buying you anything in the way of reliability.

    4. Re: you can expect the same quality from Shuttle. by commo1 · · Score: 1

      Thanks, though watch my next comment to the reply to my first message......

    5. Re: you can expect the same quality from Shuttle. by commo1 · · Score: 1

      I did not RTFA!!!! Shuttle's not making the board, they've gotten out of the business. Now, that doesn't mean that the BTX system is OK, because their track record with their mini PCs isn't great, though the motherboard still seemed to be the weakest link. Definitively worth investigating further, in any case. (not pun intended)

  17. Re:"You can expect the same quality from Shuttle.. by Lxy · · Score: 1

    Actually, it's just copied and pasted from the article.

    Writing article summaries that read well is difficult. Even so, it'd be nice if people tried to get creative instead of just copying and pasting from the article verbatim.

    --

    There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
    :wq
  18. So? by gelfling · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is there a sudden crash in the worldwide availabilty of desk space? Especially given that most non slaves get flat screens now?

    First off I can see tremendous fragility problems with monkeying with the screen angle and flopping the screen and the entire computer onto the desk, or worse, off the desk.

    I guess you'll see these soon on every desk in every TV show soon but in terms of reality it doesn't really answer much of a need.

    1. Re:So? by limabone · · Score: 1

      Who says most non slaves get flat screens?

    2. Re:So? by gelfling · · Score: 1

      Well that's partially true. Most of our new machine installs where the person actually has the clout to get a new external monitor at all w/o resorting to stealing one out of a lab, gets one. The rest of us get older, odder, can't sell them to the public versions of our notebook machines.

  19. Re:BMX Mini PC? by Squatchman · · Score: 1

    You can use it to catch, like, totally mad air on wicked jumps.

  20. Cost of steel by sjbe · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm surprised that using steel instead of aluminum would cut $130 off the price. Aluminum only costs about $0.83/lb. Does it cost a lot to shape or something? I'd expect the harder steel to cost more to work.

    I'm an engineer specialized in manufacturing and I've done some work recently sourcing steel for stampings. Steel prices, along with other raw materials, have gone through the roof in the last year or so largely due to demand from China. (I was there recently and you cannot believe the amount of construction going on unless you see it. Absolutely amazing.) As of a month ago, I was getting quotes on steel that were generally in the range of $0.45-$0.57/lb depending on the alloy you wanted and where you needed it. (this is in North America) If you want forgings or something shaped, that will add to the cost. On a weight basis the steel can't cost more than $15-25 (and that's generous) given the amount of material in a typical case.

    $130 seems like a lot just for materials savings unless they were using unusual alloys or really getting ripped off on the labor. Steel is actually pretty easy to work with, often easier than aluminum in my experience. Aluminum is so soft you often have to be careful with coolants and cutting speeds. There are structural considerations sometimes too. Aluminum requires different amounts of material for the same structural strength. But the difference isn't exactly night and day. Frankly I'm having a hard time figuring out where $130 in material savings would come from since the amount of material is so small.

    1. Re:Cost of steel by ISmokeRocks · · Score: 1

      There is absolutely no way to reduce the cost of a SFF by $130 dollars by switching from aluminum to steel.

    2. Re:Cost of steel by FRiC · · Score: 1

      Indeed, my company produces copper wire (for transformers, power supplies, etc.) and raw material prices were just crazy the past year. It's strange that prices of end products haven't gone through the roof yet.

    3. Re:Cost of steel by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      My bet is that they want to make it sound not as cool and they are dropping their margine signifigantly. If they can keep the consumer thinking that all prices are based on cost they can try to not undercut their high end systems and enter into a low end market.

      I have a G5 chasis and I with it was 1 inch thicker, I am currently running it with the lid off and will be cutting out one of the sides to acomodate a quite fan for my graphics card.

      if I cut it well it won't look bad, but it will be a pain to transport with thin heatsink fins sticking out.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  21. Aluminum just doesn't handle like steel does. by purduephotog · · Score: 1

    From this article:
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/m i_m3165/is _n9_v24/ai_6987079 ...
    One drawback--the inability to spotweld aluminum -- is near a solution. Alcan International Ltd. assures that it soon will release a sheet-aluminum bonding material, which company officials say has achieved "commercially acceptable levels of performance" for structures that are equal to steel in stiffness, strength and crashworthiness. ...
    But automakers don't shy away from the versatile material because of past failures. "With aluminum -- like anything else -- anytime you make changes you have some problems," says Richard V. Stumph, director of engineering for GM's Central Foundry Div. "We haven't shied away from it because of problems, but because of economic considerations. There's retooling, and aluminum has different mechanical properties than the materials it's displacing," all of which requires more engineering study, producing higher costs. ...

    1. Re:Aluminum just doesn't handle like steel does. by hotbutteredhtml · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      "for structures that are equal to steel in stiffness, strength and crashworthiness. ...

      Must....resist....M$....bashing.....urge.....

      --
      how 'bout I give you the finger....and you give me my phone call.
  22. Cost of the system... by FirstTimeCaller · · Score: 1

    At first I read the summary as: this will bring the cost of the XPC system down to $130.00.

    I was excited at first, but then I realized that I misread it... I still have hope that I'll be able to get a small form factor PC for a reasonable price. Not today, I guess.

    --
    Wanted: witty unique signature. Must be willing to relocate.
  23. Not really BTX? by Saberwind · · Score: 1

    I'm confused by the product http://de.shuttle.com/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid -72/170_read-10151/:

    Mainboard
    Shuttle FB86, Shuttle form factor, proprietary design for SB86i

    AFAIK, the term "BTX" applies just as much to the enclosure as to the motherboard. If either is not BTX-compliant, then the machine can't be marketed as such.

  24. fixed link by Saberwind · · Score: 1

    Specs

  25. Tainted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    The monitor will be tainted with a special coating

    I'm scared.

  26. Passing on cost of materials by sjbe · · Score: 1

    It's strange that prices of end products haven't gone through the roof yet.

    It shouldn't surprise you so much. A lot of firms have long term contracts to provide materials at a fixed price. In some cases the market is so competitive that they can't raise prices even if the firm was able to. Hence the firm you sell that copper wire to may be unable to pass on the cost increases to their customers. I've been working with some auto suppliers that are absolutely taking a bath because they can't pass on the increases in materials cost.

  27. Production costs? by dhakbar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe it has nothing to do with the material costs, and everything to do with the actual production of the case?

    1. Re: Production costs? by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 1

      Nice guess, but no. I've designed sheetmetal enclosures in both steel and aluminum and there's no significant difference in production costs. If anything, aluminum is a little cheaper to work with because it can be anodized instead of painted.

      --
      "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
  28. ... shuttle ... by ninjagin · · Score: 2, Informative
    I have four shuttles (all are SS51Gs -- one for gaming, one is my media center PC, one is my Linux box and the fourth is a development machine) and they're all great machines. Reliable, durable, and the three that run the cool, power-sipping celerons are pretty quiet. My gaming shuttle, sporting a 2.8 P4 and a Radeon 9800 Pro AGP card, is a lot warmer and also noisier, but still less noisy than full-size ATX boxes I've built with five fans in them.

    So call me a shuttle fanboy -- I can take it. As soon as they offer a flex-ATX that takes the 64-bit AMD athlon AND has support for PCI-express, I'll upgrade the gaming box.

    Some points have been raised that BTX is a more bloated form factor than the traditional shuttle flex-ATX that we've been used to, and I'd agree. I think that the increase in size is due to a couple things:

    1. Instead of just being smaller, SFF systems are increasingly being judged on the features they incorporate. New features add heat and often need more space on-board when they're first introduced. The size of a flex-ATX board layout was probably becoming restrictive to the desire to add new features.
    2. Given that they needed the additional space, adding a half-inch on each side of a shuttle isn't that big of a bloat. These machines are very compact right from the start, and the lack of ample space for some of the wider AGP cards (or vid card heatpipes/other vid card cooling solutions) has been the subject of some shuttle SFF user grousing for awhile now.

    When I first started building PCs some 4 years ago, I became used to having to unravel driver and moboard firmware issues as part of the job. With each of my shuttles -- each sporting a different OS -- I've had zero issues. Linux support has been great (I've only tried Fedora Core, RedHat9 and Suse, so the sample size ain't all that large, admittedly).

    For me, the biggest plusses of XPCs are that they have fewer fans (and are, hence, more quiet), are very portable, and where I used to have one biga$$ tower I can have three shuttles. If I were putting together a cluster/server farm, they'd probably be a good choice, too, because I could cram lots of them into a small space.

    SFFs are getting a lot more exposure, and I think that's a good thing. That Shuttle is emerging into the BTX space is also a good thing, imho.

    --
    .. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
  29. BTX systems are out there.... well... at least one by TType85 · · Score: 1

    I picked up a Gateway 700GR system a few months back to replace another box and its a BTX based system. I wish more BTX stuff would hit as I'd like to replace this case with somthing nicer... http://support.gateway.com/s/PC/R/3726/3726nv.shtm l

  30. Some facts by jmichaelg · · Score: 1
    Sheet aluminum is much more expensive than sheet steel.

    For example, Mcmaster-Carr is quoting $215.13 for a 4'x 4' sheet of .019 1100 aluminum. A 4x4 sheet of .019 Galvanized carbon steel goes for $31.17. That's about 1/7th the cost of aluminum.

  31. BTX - already? by Nik13 · · Score: 1

    Aren't we waiting a long time for all this new technology to come out? I've been waiting to a BTX FF motherboard, socket 939 and with PCI-E on it. I'm starting to wonder if I won't be waiting 'till 2007 to be able to buy one. Is it just me, or all these nice and new things are just taking forever to show up?

    --
    ///<sig />
  32. Er..... by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    I have two Shuttles stacked where I used to have 1 ATX machine before.

    In all honestly I want some of what you are smoking.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  33. Re:Mirror by spectre_240sx · · Score: 1

    Ugh, don't just say AUGH MY EYES! Tell us what it is so that the unfortunate overcurious slashdotters don't need to follow you into optical oblivion.

  34. Dell UK Already Selling BTX by Majorachre · · Score: 1

    Dimension 5000 is already for sale as a BTX system. Check out the product views and look at the motherboard.