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American Airlines Information Gathering
matt-fu writes "Cory Doctorow posted a story on boingboing.net this morning describing a recent hassle while flying American Airlines. It seems that since he was traveling from the UK to the US with a Canadian passport, he was actually asked to give out the names and addresses of everyone he would be staying with in the US! He has written an open letter to AA in response. Has anyone else had something like this happen to them?"
Trying being a diabetic with an insulin pump. The security people aren't big fans of people with tubes coming out of them strapped to little computers.
This is probably an automated check on anyone with a 3rd country passport.
As a US citizen traveling to the UK I've had that happen on both trips. One with Delta, and one on
British Air. I can't say this kind of information request is polite, but I have always thought it rather common.
This is absolutely routine - and gratingly unnecessary - when renting cars from all of the major rental car agencies. It makes slightly more sense in that case (or can be justified slightly better by someone so inclined), because you're actually holding onto the agency's property, but I can't imagine a reasonable justification for an airline doing this.
It should be noted that I've declined that request when renting cars in the past and haven't encountered any problems larger than the manager's irritation.
I went with my friend to pick up his german friend who was coming in from Germany and she didn't have his or anyone else's address in America. The custom's agent was apparently pissed and had to come out to find my friend to get an American address. This was all very weird to us and we had to wait for like 2 hours for her. So, I believe this is a US customs issue, not just AA.
Yeah, here's a Broadband Reports Security thread about the incident.
I can't wait to hear what AA's response to Doctorow is.
dmiessler.com -- grep understanding knowledge
Yes its standard for all non-US citizens coming into the US, even on a short vacation or business trip. It was that way even before 9/11 too.
At the very bottom of the article, there's a link called "Link" that takes you to the full text. That is the general format of articles on boing boing. In this case, it's also the same as the second link in the story submission.
Either I've been smoking too much crack or my memory is shot, because I'm pretty sure I've been required to do that every single time I've flown to America (to visit family, first time was in 1999). I have a Danish passport and usually fly via Iceland, with Icelandair, but have also flown via the UK.
There's the usual "I will not commit terrorist acts" but also a section where you list who you will be staying with.
In 2002, I didn't have my cousin's then NY address handy, so I made one up. Good thing they didn't check up on it.
Funny story: On one trip, I had a present with me for a wedding, and had to take a national connecting flight from Boston to Baltimore. They had these things where they check for various trace chemicals that would indicate explosives. It of course went off five times on my suitcase, so the guy had it opened and went through it, item by item.
Finally he got to the present, a bottle of Gammel Dansk (a bitter alcohol), which was wrapped. He asked me what was in it, I told him. He then asked me if I had spent time near or on a farm previous to my flight, all the questions that would explain why I had trace chemicals on my luggage, but there was no apparent reason. He eventually let me go, when I started commentingthat I had to catch the connecting flight.
During the carry-on check, I realized I had a box-cutter in my pencil-case. There were also a couple of blades that were just floating around in there along with the pencils & pens. As the guy was rummaging through literally everything, including the pencil-case, I gotta admit I got a bit nervous that he would cut himself. He didn't find it, though. So much for thoroughness, heh.
My aunt was less lucky. She had her knitting pins confiscated and they almost ruined the cake she was bringing for the wedding.
This probable isn't american airlines fault, but more due to government regulation.
Did you RTFA? The person in question was never asked those questions when flying on USAir, and when American Airlines discovered he was an AAdvantage Platinum member, they immediately changed their tune and told him they no longer needed to ask those questions.
If it's a government regulation, then why didn't he have to comply with it when he flew USAir? Why didn't he have to comply with it because he had Platinum status in American's frequent flyer program?
Oh, and when an airline loses your luggage, you generally have a good idea they've done that before you leave the baggage claim at your destination airport. You have to file a claim for your missing bag (description, etc.) and they collect contact information at that time. There's no need to collect that up front.
You sure will and what's more you'll be sent back to where you came from unless you can show that you have the means to pay for a hotel or can name a friend with whom you are staying. Your travel agent should have told you of these requirements. They're not unusual. Many countries have the same requirements. For example, my country, Australia requires all passengers on international flights to fill in an arrival card on the plane before it lands. If you refuse to fill in the arrival card you won't even be allowed into the airport and chances are the next time you try to book a flight to Australia you will be denied entry and will have to apply for a review of your status.
How we know is more important than what we know.
I'm an American who once (and only once) used AA to visit Colombia. At the airport in Bogota, getting ready to return to the US, American Airlines had a couple of podiums set up before you got to the check-in desk. The woman at the podium started asking me all sorts of questions... where had I been in Colombia, who with, what did I do, where did I stay, is that your friend over there? (yes, and he works at the US embassy, thanks), who's your friend talking to?, what's your friend's blood type and penile girth? etc. etc. etc. for about 15 minutes.
I had the same question - why is American Airlines asking me all these retarded questions, and to what end - and all I got was the same stock 9/11 non-answer.
After several trips to Colombia, neither the US government or any other airline has ever asked me barely a single question about my trip. Hell, at US customs, the people usually don't even look at my form - I had one guy glance at my name, read it out loud in a bored voice, and say "buh-bye!" and wave me off.
It's only American Airlines that's this obnoxious. I'd like to know why, too.
The difference is that the questions you are talking about are usually asked by immigration officials at your destination, not by airline employees prior to departure. The question the Doctorow is raising is "why does the airline want this info?"
What is really insulting is when European hotels "hold" my passport for me. That really pisses me off...
There's an easy workaround to this: in most European countries it is mandatory to carry an ID _at all times_ (given you are 18 years or older). Simply explain that the passport is your only legally valid document, and leave a (library card|old badge|credit card) with the hotel.
Also, why did a casino in Monico need a copy of my passport?
For the same reason that elsewhere your ID can get scanned and stored.
I lied to immigration. It sucked. I advise aganist it.
:)
I was sent to Jamaica by my previous employer two years ago. Due to the fact that my former company claimed that it took seven months to get a work visa, I was to tell them that my colleagues and I were there on vacation. I wasn't happy about this, but went along with it.
When it turned out that we had to overstay our trip by several days, we went to the local immigration office in downtown Montego Bay to get our stays extended, they stated to ask my team leader who was with me (I was the head honcho on this trip - scary thought there!) and myself about our trip, where we stayed, etc. Something made them hinky (to this day I'm not sure what) and we got passed along from officer to officer, higher and higher up the chain, and in increasingly darker and more isolated rooms. Finally we had the head of the local office interrogating uys on every aspect of our trip - what we had done, who we knew in country, what our daily schedule was, etc. He finally said "What if I were to tell you that we have undeniable proof that you have been working illegally at location *****". Faced with this, we admitted our guilt and promptly flipped into panic mode. (Jamaica is a very friendly place, but imagine that you are a foreigner anywhere and admitting to a alien government offical that you are lying to them and are in their country under false pretenses wheee!)
Very fortunate for us, the people we were working with were very wealthy islanders who did a lot for the local Mo'Bay economy. As so often happens, money greases the skids of both business and government. Once they learned who we were working for, a quick phone call to that party got us the extension we sought and a swift kick out the door. Any other slob without this (unbeknownest to us) safety net would have found themselves in trouble quick.
My advice is threefold:
1) Make sure you pad your imigration form for extra time - you can always go back sooner.
2) Don't work for shithead companies who don't care if you are left to hang out to dry or not.
3) If an immigration offical asks you a question, don't lie and run the risk of pissing them off - it IS their country
"As the intrepid kobold companion continues his journey, he begins to wonder... if priests raises dead, why anybody die?
Passport Control at Heathrow routinely asked me why I was in the country and where I was staying when I flew in and out of there pre-911. That's fine; that's offical UK business.
Being asked by an airline to list the friends you'll be seeing is a different matter. If it this is, in fact, a TSA requirement, the TSA should acknowledge it.
And, if it is, was every other passenger on that flight asked the same question?
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
????
This question is on the declaration form you fill out every time you fly to the USA from Canada.
you are treated like a king if you are Mexican [...] and the cops are not allowed to check if you are legal or not
Yes, in the US it's only royalty and illegal Mexican immgrants that are allowed police protection. [rolls eyes]
The poster might give you the impression that the state of California offers all sorts of special benefits that accrue to illegal aliens. As far as I know, that's not the case; it's just that many government programs help out all people rather than checking to see whether you're a citizen or not.
Personally, as a Cali taxpayer, I'm glad of that. Humanitarian considerations aside, society pays a heavy cost if illegal immigrants are afraid to report crime, or if their children are forced to be sick, malnourished, and ignorant. Whether we should let them come is one question, but as long as they are here to stay we might as well make sure they make it.
I'm a little late for this but it's an area I'm familiar with so I thought I'd contribute it.
The U.S. Customs Department is in the process of moving towards what they call "U.N. APIS" (Advanced Passenger Information System). Details can be found at here in the Word document US Passenger List; UN EDIFACT Message Set.
The U.S. APIS system which has been used for some time does not require destination address information. The U.N. format does. See the linked document pages 60-63 for more details. Eventually this will be required when flying any major airline coming into the U.S., not just American Airlines.
If this is a TSA reg, and if it is a requirement for entry
It is obviously neither, since the airline waived it and admitted him once it became known to them that he was an AAdvantage Platinum member, and other airlines have made no such requests to him under similar circumstances. Read the article?
If Doctorow refused to complete such a form, he would be reponsible for the consequences (e.g., being refused entry).
And given Doctorow's status as a civil rights crusader, it's plausible that he would balk TSA regs to make a point / test case / etc -- even if it were true, which it is apparently not, that this is genuinely required under TSA regs.
I had the exact same treatment this summer when I returned with my wife on our annual vacation to Turkey (she's Turkish). They literally held the plane while they interrogated us for about 10 minutes. Some of the questions we were asked were where my wife work, how many people work at her company, if she had a business card, how much we made. I was becoming quite irritated and beligerent when she asked how I paid for the tickets; then all but called me a liar when I showed her the credit card I used. At that point I had had enough. I told her I wouldn't stand being called a liar, and that we were done answering questions. She then asked us the standard "who packed your bags" etc and let us thru.
This was an AA employee we were dealing with, not the German police or US Customs. She was obviously trying to scare us into some sort of confession or mistake.
I had assumed we were singled out becase my wife is Turkish, but its obviously more widespread than that.
I have a US passport but don't live there. On one of my very infrequent visits (1999 or so) I left that blank. The guy asked my about it, I told him I hadn't memorised my friend's address, he was waiting for me in the carpark. Besides, I CAN STAY WHERE EVER I LIKE IN MY OWN COUNTRY. He let me go but threatened me with a cavity search next time. There hasn't been a next time, but I wish I'd reported him!
Another response to your post has some details of Clinton's problem going after bin Laden. That Sudan handover story is a fraud, designed to counter the memories of Clinton's actual attack on bin Laden in Sudan, more than Bush ever did until bin Laden was safely out of Afghanistan before invading there. Meanwhile, the Gingrich Republican Congress stopped Clinton from attacking bin Laden, claiming Clinton's attacks were "wagging the dog", when Gingrich wanted to impeach Clinton for a blowjob instead. When bin Laden bombed the USS Cole in Yemen in Clinton's final days, Clinton's investigation served up definitive proof to the incoming Bush that it was bin Laden - that was enough for Bush to go all out. But instead he did absolutely nothing, except to dismantle and deprioritize Clinton's counter bin Laden organizations.
Do a little more research beyond the Fox News Rovian talking points. Everything you're citing is the cliche coverup, exactly wrong to cover up the difference between common sense and the catastrophic actions taken instead by Bush. Snap out of it.
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