Slashdot Mirror


Scientific American on Quantum Encryption

prostoalex writes "Scientific American claims that advances in commercially available quantum encryption might obsolete the existing factorization-based solutions: "The National Security Agency or one of the Federal Reserve banks can now buy a quantum-cryptographic system from two small companies - and more products are on the way. This new method of encryption represents the first major commercial implementation for what has become known as quantum information science, which blends quantum mechanics and information theory. The ultimate technology to emerge from the field may be a quantum computer so powerful that the only way to protect against its prodigious code-breaking capability may be to deploy quantum-cryptographic techniques.""

374 comments

  1. Unbreakable Encryption... by Jace+of+Fuse! · · Score: 5, Funny

    Someone needs to write a Encryption routine that uses the source text as the key. THAT will really show 'em!

    --

    "Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"

    Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
    1. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well thats really not ay use, why would you encypt something if who had to use the encypted part tyo unencypt it?

    2. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thats why it's funny..

    3. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by Paul+Crowley · · Score: 5, Funny

      Already done - XORing the source text with itself is a provably perfectly secure form of encryption!

    4. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by N+Monkey · · Score: 2, Funny

      Already done - XORing the source text with itself is a provably perfectly secure form of encryption!

      The only problem with this is that when you send your cipher text, the big bad corrupt government agency can easily show that your clear text was "I planted the bomb" :-)

      A pity, as it looked as though the cipher text would compress really well.

    5. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by hkroger · · Score: 1

      Umm, not perfectly. The length of original message can still be determined.

    6. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by mikael · · Score: 5, Funny

      Already done - XORing the source text with itself is a provably perfectly secure form of encryption!


      But you still need to apply for an export licence if you use a encryption key greater than 128 bits in size.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    7. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, so you throw in a random number of predetermined junk bits into your message. Easily solved.

    8. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by PhilipOfOregon · · Score: 2, Funny
      You'd think an "all zeros" message would hide your message perfectly. You can still figure out the size of the message.

      This can matter if you're looking for any change in the information channel at all.

      For example, just knowing that most messages are likely "nothing to report", but there's ONE message on December 6, 1941 -- which is quite large -- may be an interesting hint that something's up.

      Come to think of it, didn't the Japanes send an "All Zeros" message to Hawaii about then?

    9. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is done. It's how your password is encrypted. The only way to decrypt it and see what it is is with the proper password.

    10. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's not...

    11. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by OzRoy · · Score: 1

      padding all messages so they are the same size is a pretty common technique, and not that difficult to do.

    12. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by storm916 · · Score: 1

      Not Secure! I would not use it; it's just a cipher algorithem. Not Really encryption at all.

    13. Re:Unbreakable Encryption... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Old News. This was written about by Bruce Schneier "Applied Cryptography '...the best introduction to cryptograpy I've ever seen... The book the National Security Agency wanted never to be published --Wired magazine'" pp554-557 published in 1996 (only 9 years ago). Charles Bennett, Gilles Brassard, Claude Crepeau and others did work on this in '95 (ten years ago). I know it sounds like 'new and amazing', but it's kinda old already. Prior to '96 Bennett and Brassard had built a working model on a laser table, and British Telecom were sending secure bits over a 10km fiber optic link. Gee, do ya think any progress has been made in the last 9 years???

  2. Don't verb adjectives by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 0

    And who's to say that the NSA hasn't had this technology available to them for a while?

    And if they have quantum encryption, their quantum decryption (code breaking) devices are probably a little more advanced than what those two companies *cough*flybynight*cough* are selling.

    1. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I personally believe IBM has made more headway in the Quantum front than either both of those companies OR the NSA, and IBM still claims Quantum Computers are still some time off.

      In short, I believe IBM to be more competent than the NSA, though that isn't saying much.

      Posting AC so they don't bump me off.

    2. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      God, I love when slashdot covers advanced scientific stuff... then people like you who have no idea what they are talking about get to be mod'ed Insightful!

      OK, there's two very different uses of quantum technology when applied to crypto problems:

      1. If you had a quantum computer some problems like factorization become easy; therefore things like RSA would be instantly decryptable. The gotcha is that the current "state of the art" for quantum computers are still absolutely tiny and there are HUGE engineering challenges towards building one large enough to factor a real key (I think they're at the point now where they can factor numbers like "12"... so they have a bit of scaling before they can start attacking 300-digit numbers)

      Of course there could be a massive breakthrough in quantum computer design tomorrow which would throw the whole crypto world on its head. That makes this area really interesting for crypto people.

      Does NSA secretly have a quantum computer that can do that? I'd say its extremely unlikely... I'm sure they have people looking into it but they would have to be AMAZINGLY far ahead of the public research community to have actually built a full-size one.

      2. What this article is talking about is "quantum encryption" what's really "quantum" about it is making an untappable fiber line by signalling using the characteristics of single photons. By using Heisenberg's uncertainty principal you can make it impossible for anyone to tap the line (and thus observe the photon states) without also randomizing the bits. It's really hard to get your head around but it actually works.

      Note that nowhere here did we use a "quantum computer"... this is all using technology that exists today (obviously, since you can buy it)

      So basically even if your adversary has a trillion dollar budget to attack you with they CANNOT tap that fiber line without destroying the communication in the process. It's physically not possible with any technology.

      So unless the NSA has a whole undiscovered field of physics that the world doesn't know about they don't have "quantum decyption" As we understand physics today it's literally impossible to build such a device.

    3. Re:Don't verb adjectives by krymsin01 · · Score: 1

      Uh, don't you know about Area 51? You didn't get the memo, eh?

      --
      stuff
    4. Re:Don't verb adjectives by dragons_flight · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't think that the NSA has substantially better quantum encryption / computing than the rest of us. My main line of evidence is that they are still throwing enormous gobs of money at unclassified research into quantum computing.

      One such example is the innocuously named "Laboratory for Physical Sciences". Please note the rather conspicuous key-shaped logo. I toured their facility a few years back while looking for a job. At the time the NSA was buying them just about anything they wanted provided it might have applications in quantum computing. This included a rather sophisticated chip fabrication lab and clean room.

      I don't know if we will ever really have quantum computers, but the NSA sure doesn't want to be late to the party if we do.

    5. Re:Don't verb adjectives by OzRoy · · Score: 1

      It is impossible to crack quantum encryption.

      It's a bit of a misleading name, but the actual encryption part of these techniques is the one time pad which has been a known technique for a long time now. It is mathmatically proven to be impossible to break a one time pad as long as you use a truely random key.

      The quantum part of this new technique is just the method of transmitting the key to the other person. With it you can guarantee that no one else has listened in and knows what the key is.

    6. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, you can't guarantee that no one else listened. But you can make the probability of detecting a listener as close to 1 as you wish.

    7. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It is impossible to crack quantum encryption.

      Not exactly. What's impossible at the time is to catch the message without altering it, that is, the expected receiver will see that there is a man in the middle.

      > The quantum part of this new technique is just the method of transmitting the key to the other person. With it you can guarantee that no one else has listened in and knows what the key is.

      Yeah. But you need a really random key : if not, one might observe flow of qbits, forcing alice to choose another key, and deduce after some time what will be the next pseudo-random key.

    8. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How?? The act of "observing" any infomation tranfered between two parties in this manner would disrupt it. You would have to figure out how to get around the uncertianty principal; and that to my knowlege has not been done.

    9. Re:Don't verb adjectives by go$$amer · · Score: 1

      So there, mr. big britches!

      --
      STOP. You're being farmed.
    10. Re:Don't verb adjectives by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you have the quantum equipment anyway, it's no problem to generate true random numbers. Just produce vertically polarized photons and then measure them in diagonal direction. This guarantees complete independence of the resulting bits from each other (i.e. no correlation), and for perfect vertical and diagonal arrangement also equal probability of 0 and 1. But it's the independence which is really crucial; it's simple to create an unbiased random bit stream from a biased one if the individual bits are independent: Just split the original bit stream into pairs of bits, then throw away all pairs where both bits are the same, and for the remaining pairs always take the first bit. For a stream of independent bits, this guarantees a stream of equally probable independent bits. The bias of the original stream just affects the data rate.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    11. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Does NSA secretly have a quantum computer that can do that? I'd say its extremely unlikely...

      Actually, they do! And the infinite improbability field that it generated is the true reason behind the November election results.

    12. Re:Don't verb adjectives by weighn · · Score: 2, Funny

      So what you're saying, basically, is that you can't tap into quantum encryption without destroying the communication/ randomizing the bits in the process and that the nsa isn't THAT far ahead of current public research and that , oh hang on

      --
      Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
    13. Re:Don't verb adjectives by m50d · · Score: 1

      What you say is true, but WRT 1. I don't think you're paranoid enough. When DES was first set up, the NSA not only knew about differential cryptanalysis, but had had it for long enough that they were worried other people would discover it. They have more conventional computing power *and* more mathematicians than any other institution in the world. There is no theoretical barrier to having a big working QC, it's all engineering. The NSA has one, count on it.

      --
      I am trolling
    14. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It'd be UNBELIEVABLY ahead of the private sector if the NSA had quantum computers capable of factoring current keys now. Shor's algorithm requires a large number of qubits to factor an n-bit number (Shor registers + QFT + exponentiation), plus however many qubits are necessary for error-correcting codes to prevent your entanglements from breaking down.

      Furthermore, even though Shor's algorithm can factor in roughly linear time, it still has a work factor present. You may have to run the quantum Fourier transform multiple times before you get an acceptable discrete log to finish the equation with, thanks to the joys of trying to extract a single value from a superposition.

      And yes, IBM made a 7-qubit NMR-based QC a while ago and tested Shor's algorithm on it, factoring 15 into 3 and 5. NMR QCs are not currently scalable though, which prompted some scientists to prematurely declare quantum computing as a dead end.

    15. Re:Don't verb adjectives by lachlan76 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even if it is untappable, wouldn't it be vulnerable to a man-in-the-middle attack?

    16. Re:Don't verb adjectives by jez99 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is the point. We're not talking about 'engineering'. This is physics. Well they may had discovered the 'yellow holes' in universe, and nobody knows that, or whatever. Anyway, even in the atomic bomb project, which was really a huge and secret one, the physics of it was universally known before they started building paloa lto. The can be as far as you want in 'engineering', but what is needed here is physics, and is much more profitable for them to keep their ears open till some discover shows up in the public scientisc community, and use it, and put zillios of engineers on it.

    17. Re:Don't verb adjectives by essreenim · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Even if it is untappable, wouldn't it be vulnerable to a man-in-the-middle attack?

      No, what he's attempting to do is describe entanglement - the presently baffling feature of quantum mechanices. As Heisenberg would tell you, any attempt to measure the state of a photon (an entangled pair of a photon in this case) will in fact alter the state of the photon itself and consequently sound an alarm bell if the data (many photons!) is corrupt at the other end. However, a sub-atomic group in Paris - ENS- have made progress in findinf ways to not measure the magnitude of a photon, but rather measure the phase shift of tiny rubidium rods as they pass through a photon. This still makes a change of course but a change that is even more difficult to detect! It's fascinating stuff and arguably the future of communication and computing, and who knows even replication...

    18. Re:Don't verb adjectives by octaene · · Score: 1

      Dancin_Santa has it exactly right -- the NSA isn't gonna buy this technology from some company, shit -- they probably pioneered the first system capable of producing a quantum algorithm in the first place!

    19. Re:Don't verb adjectives by lachlan76 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What I meant was, what's the point if I can just cut the fibre and put a transmitter/receiver pair in the middle?

    20. Re:Don't verb adjectives by essreenim · · Score: 1

      But thats not hacking, thats manual labour ; ) ..

    21. Re:Don't verb adjectives by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I needen't bother, especially since ~90% of the time there is a windows machine on the end ;)

    22. Re:Don't verb adjectives by dustmite · · Score: 1

      No amount of educating people on the world of physics and mankind's knowledge thereof is going to help here, because people just plain want to believe the junk-science-tinfoil-hat notions that the 'US gubmint is waaaay ahead'. For some that's more entertaining than the truth, and I guess people have a hard time 'disentangling' truth and entertainment. Still, one should never stop trying to educate, I suppose.

    23. Re:Don't verb adjectives by essreenim · · Score: 1
      ..~90% of the time there is a windows machine on the end.. using Internet Explorer ; )

    24. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Phurd+Phlegm · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What I meant was, what's the point if I can just cut the fibre and put a transmitter/receiver pair in the middle?
      The reason you can't do that is that unless you send each photon using the same orientation the guy on the other end won't get the right measurements on some of them. You only get a correct measurement on those photons that you measured in the same orientation the sender used. For the ones you measured in the wrong orientation, you get a random result (if the orientation is off by 90 degrees, I believe there is no correlation at all--if off by 45 degrees there is some correlation but there's still a random component). So for those cases (which essentially amount to 1/2 the bit string) you're sending random values. This means that the key as received will be wrong.

      So, you could send a key to the other end, but it wouldn't be the same key that you received, because the key is created during the exchange based on which photons were encoded in the same orientation they were measured. So, any protocol that uses this has to be designed to take advantage of this property to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks. Apparently the crypto boys and girls feel this is enough of an advantage to be done--I haven't inspected any protocols that do this, so I can't explain how it's achieved. But simply sending a long key and XORing the message with it isn't enough--the man in the middle could foil that by just generating a new key and reencrypting.

      I'm sure someone has a good discussion of this up on the web. The question is if there's one that's accessible to the non-cryptographer.

    25. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, contrary to what most people think, IT IS NOT CLEAR that a man-in-the-middle attack is impossible in Quantum Cryptograhy.

      The only thing exchanged "quantically" is the key. After that, the data is cyphered using symmetric keys.

      When Alice sends an entangled photon with the key to Bob, someone snooping in the middle would destroy the entanglement and both Alice and Bob would realize.

      BUT, if you can make Alice believe that you are Bob (i.e. sending her a spoofed address) and Bob that you are Alice, you can comunicate with them using a perfectly secure channel, but you are reading their communication.

      You know, the security of a system is that of the weakest link, and this only passes the problem to another layer (routing).

    26. Re:Don't verb adjectives by fatphil · · Score: 1

      No, the bits have a property that is shared between their endpoints. If you insert 2 more endpoints in the middle, then
      the original enpoints no longer have the shared property.
      The first thing that Alice and Bob do is to check that they
      have the shared property on a small set of the bits, and thus an evesdropper will be detected immediately.

      It's a bit more complicated than that, but the essential thing is to note that it's impossible to duplicate a quantum state. Once you've read it, you've extracted one bit of information from it, but the original contained more than one bit of information. Therefore the MITM can't reproduce what he was sent, merely what he read, which is different 50% of the time.

      I wrote a obfuscated self-modifying perl script which would let you play with such a scheme. Alas it requires some knowledge of how the scheme works in order to use it.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    27. Re:Don't verb adjectives by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 1

      Didn't you listen to Narim? He said to Carter that quantum physics is tough to them as a disproved theory!

      Geez...and i thought there are more enlightened people watching stargate here.

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
    28. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude you lost get over it.

    29. Re:Don't verb adjectives by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 1
      So basically even if your adversary has a trillion dollar budget to attack you with they CANNOT tap that fiber line without destroying the communication in the process.
      With a trillion-dollar budget, my adversary could mount a man-in-the-middle attack.
      Part of the process necessary for quantum encryption to work is a second communications channel, which the parties use to communicate which bits in the quantum stream to use for encryption.
      The parties then use that channel (or possibly a third channel) to transmit the encrypted data.
      If an evesdropper can mount a man-in-the-middle attack against both (all three) channels, then he/she can compromise the encryption.
      With a trillion-dollar budget, this should be doable in many cases.
      --
      Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
    30. Re:Don't verb adjectives by fatphil · · Score: 1

      Re random bits - they're only as perfect as your measurement of a right angle. However, it's pretty easy to unbias nearly random independent bits, so that's not a show stopper.
      FP.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    31. Re:Don't verb adjectives by fatphil · · Score: 1

      Holey moley, oops. I just said what you said.
      I should get some sleep...

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    32. Re:Don't verb adjectives by fbartho · · Score: 1

      Whoa, what are you talking about? Would you mind linking us to this mathematical proof of the impossibility to crack a one-time pad? Because the fact of the matter is that someone could try every possible one-time pad of a set size... and they could try all the sizes between 1 and kingdom come, and with infinite time they are garunteed to find the right pad... so please elaborate what you mean there...

      --
      Gravity Sucks
    33. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's funny how I can factorize 15 mentally. Does this mean I could kick NSA's ass with their girly quantum computers?

    34. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With a trillion-dollar budget, your adversary would ask you "would you let me know your secret for a trillion-dollar?". Your anwser would be something along the line of... "yes".

    35. Re:Don't verb adjectives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "the NSA isn't gonna buy this technology from some company, shit -- they probably pioneered the first system capable of producing a quantum algorithm in the first place!"

      And Bush won the war in Iraq, USA is a democratic country, and Americans are all good looking, they are not fat. Get it?

    36. Re:Don't verb adjectives by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      A fast search on google reveale no protocols immune to man-in-the-middle attacks.
      I foud 3 different kinds of protoclos, the entangled fottonws are one of them, but all of them rely on the original message going till Bob.

  3. n.b does not hurt cats unless you observe them by Engineer+Andy · · Score: 5, Funny

    As far as I can tell, no cats were harmed in the making of these quantum cryptographic devices, although if you look inside the box, the act of looking at the cat inside may (or may not) kill it

    --
    "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World" 1 John 4:14
    1. Re:n.b does not hurt cats unless you observe them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      As far as I can tell, no cats were harmed in the making of these quantum cryptographic devices

      Yeah well...

      cat /dev/null >/bin/cat

      hmmm, would that even work?
    2. Re:n.b does not hurt cats unless you observe them by Z4rd0Z · · Score: 1

      Sure it would work, why not? As long as you had the right permissions, I reckon.

      --
      You had me at "dicks fuck assholes".
    3. Re:n.b does not hurt cats unless you observe them by NeuralAbyss · · Score: 1

      If you look inside the box, you'll find that it may have been vandalised.

      "Schrödinger may have been here"

      You see, only pussies don't look in the box. And if there was a pussy in the box, it would look at it. If the cat was dead, it would no longer be a pussy, and therefore, not look at it!

  4. Uhh... by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

    Why does quantum computing threaten present encryption?

    --

    Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    1. Re:Uhh... by k98sven · · Score: 4, Informative

      Because you could implement Shor's factorization algorithm.

    2. Re:Uhh... by Jace+of+Fuse! · · Score: 1

      Why does quantum computing threaten present encryption?

      Because the potential to try every possible key at once could exist in a sufficiently advanced Quantum Computer.

      --

      "Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"

      Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
    3. Re:Uhh... by Harry+Balls · · Score: 1

      Because a Qbit (quantum bit) is both 0 and 1 at the same time, until observation forces it to a known state.
      Hence, a register built out of 512 Qbits represents 2^512 states at once and you can brute-force RSA or DSA encryption algorithms.
      However, right now it is not yet feasible to build a quantum computer with 512 Qbits.

    4. Re:Uhh... by monkease · · Score: 4, Funny

      Quantum computing doesn't make threats.

      It makes promises.

      I'm not just gunna break yo' face, i'm going to quantum break yo' face, foo'!

    5. Re:Uhh... by Dr.+Weird · · Score: 5, Informative
      Encryption, as it stands now (the classical kind), relies on an asymmetric computational task. For example, it is much easier to check that the a list of numbers are the factors of another number than it is to factorize the number. In fact, the latter is, to the best of current computer science knowledge, exponentially slower than the first.

      Quantum computing provides an algorithm (Shor's), utilizing quantum mechanical manipulations, which factors numbers exponentially faster. Thus, factoring and checking factors takes the same amount of time.

      This leads to the undesirable conclusion that encryption and decryption (by an intercepting 3rd party) of a signal take the same amount of time (up to a polynomial equivalence). In other words, the encryption is breakable, since the interceptor need only invest roughly the same amount of computational effort as the sender in order to crack the message.

      That is why the creation of a quantum computer would "obsolete" present encryption. The point of quantum encryption is that it is not vulnerable to such attacks.

    6. Re:Uhh... by gl4ss · · Score: 4, Funny

      *I'm not just gunna break yo' face, i'm going to quantum break yo' face, foo'!*

      so you gonna break his face and slam a cardboard box over his head? "no officer, his face is not smashed. however, if you take the box off it might cause it to be smashed or not"

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    7. Re:Uhh... by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      Because the potential to try every possible key at once could exist in a sufficiently advanced Quantum Computer.

      Great, so you can get quadrillions of improperly decoded versions and one good one, hidden in there somewhere. For any good encryption, I don't see how that helps much.

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    8. Re:Uhh... by monkease · · Score: 2, Funny

      And then I'll quantum-borrow the cop's glock and quantum-unload a clip into the box.

      I quantum-love science!

    9. Re:Uhh... by Omniscientist · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well with current encryption methods you usually have a public key and a secure key. Let's say I give everyone here my public key. Well then everyone can encrypt me messages, but only I can decode it with my secure key. However within that public keys lies the secrets of the secure key, but it would take an extremely long time to break the public key cipher. With quantum computing, which can perform really hard factorizations quickly, it would make the whole many current cryptographic schemes obsolete, because it would be so easy to crack the public key. Therefore the only solution to this is the introduction of quantum cryptography, which would theoretically be able to avoid being cracked easily, RTFA for more.

    10. Re:Uhh... by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      Public keys didn't strike me as invincible to begin with...

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    11. Re:Uhh... by tftp · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If you have a ton of sand with some gold nuggets mixed in, it's kinda tedious to manually inspect every grain of sand and throw it away if it doesn't look like gold.

      However, it is perfectly reasonable to borrow a large sieve with a water tray - which both work on all the grains simultaneously - and then the job becomes doable in hours.

    12. Re:Uhh... by glenkim · · Score: 1

      The grandparent's explanation was a little lacking on details. What he meant was with a quantum computer, encryption which relies on the computational infeasibility of the factorization of large prime numbers multiplied together can be easily cracked. You can attempt every possible number in one iteration, thus finding the prime numbers that comprise the key and rendering the encryption useless.

    13. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      But, as usual, the media hypes this too much. Presently only two useful algorithms for quantum computers are known. A search in an unordered set, which runs as sqrt(N) (as compared to N for traditional computers), and Shor's algorithm for factoring numbers. The most widely used public key cryptography (RSA) is based on the difficulty of factoring numbers, but it would not be technically difficult to replace it with another asymmetric scheme, e.g. based on elliptic functions. No quantum algorithms are known which obsoletes this.

    14. Re:Uhh... by ageitgey · · Score: 1

      Great, so you can get quadrillions of improperly decoded versions and one good one, hidden in there somewhere. For any good encryption, I don't see how that helps much.

      The machine knows that it found the plaintext because it looks like plaintext.

      Basically, the longer the message is the less chance you have of finding a key that produces a reasonable but incorrect plaintext.

      --
      Uninnovate - Only the finest in engineering.
    15. Re:Uhh... by drgonzo59 · · Score: 1

      That is one of the best analogies I've heard about the idea behind quantum superposition and how it would work with factorization.

    16. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not known that you can use a QC for brute-forcing RSA or DSA. However, you can crack RSA by factoring the public key with Shor's algorithm, which is one of only two algorithms known to run on quantum computers.

    17. Re:Uhh... by ciroknight · · Score: 1

      So.. I really don't understand quantum computing. Why doesn't someone build a emulator that would allow a large grid of existing computers to run a "quantum computer"? Wouldn't it be just as easyto delegate a processor to six or seven bits at a time?

      *puzzled*.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    18. Re:Uhh... by vagabond_gr · · Score: 2, Funny

      VERY rough explanation.

      Encryption algorithms rely on the fact that some problems need an exponential number of 'calculations' to be solved. If b is the number of bits in a key, breaking the encryption needs 2^b steps.

      On the other hand in traditional computers, if you have p processors and each can perform n calculations per time unit, then you can perform p.n calculation in total. Increasing p or n gives only a *linear* improvement in performance. This is not enough to match 2^b if b is big enough.

      On the other hand with q Qbits you can perform 2^q calculations simultaneously (nature's miracle). Take b Qbits and you're done (I said rough explanation, remember). The only problem is that its VERY dificult to tie QBits together.

    19. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it relies on the unique properties of a quantum computer. Sure, you could write an emulator, but that would be slower than brute-forcing it (because it would brute-force it, only now you'd have an emulation layer).

    20. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
      The point with a quantum computer is as follows. Overly simplified.

      If you have a quantum byte, i.e. 8 quantum bits, you can load it with 256 different integers simultaneously. You can do a single computation on the byte, and this computation is done simultaneously on all the 256 integers. This can easily be emulated, with 256 computers, as you suggest.

      But, if you have a quantum computer with 256 quantum bits, you can do computations simultaneously on 2**256 integers. That's not easy to emulate with classical computers because we don't have enough of them.

      The main problem with constructing algorithms for quantum computers is to read the result. When you read the 256-bits you only get a single number among the 2**256 which are stored there. Each of 2**256 integers has a probability associated with it, what you read is governed by this probability. Once you read, the state of the computer collapses to what you read, all the other information is lost.

      Shor's algorithm solves this by ensuring that the result is periodic, the period being the solution to the problem. It then performs a Fourier transform on the state. Then reads it and gets the period with high probability.

    21. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      From your link: "The unicity distance grows as the redundancy of the plaintext shrinks. For compressed files, the redundancy might be 2.5, or three blocks of DES ciphertext. For a 256-bit-key cipher, that would be 105 plaintext bytes. If the plaintext is a random key, the redundancy is zero and the unicity distance reaches infinity: it is impossible to recognize the correct plaintext from an incorrect plaintext."

      So it seems encrypting your message with even a really weak encryption algorithm before encrypting it with a strong one would help a lot. Is that true?

      Or, as an extention on that technique, I always wondered why people don't simply chain _all_ the candidates for AES instead of just picking the one algorithm that won. Seems if they did that, then if any algorithm was sound, you'd win.

    22. Re:Uhh... by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      Key to cryptfile ratio, makes some sense.

      Still have to run that test some ridiculous number of times, and pity whoever has to crack encrypted text with a slight sprinkling of 8-bit-ness in the beginning. :-)

      It still won't handle high entropy binary formats very well either, seems.

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    23. Re:Uhh... by HuguesT · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because it is extremely inefficient to simulate the quantum world, as everything happens in parallel.

      In effect you go back to square one. To simulate N qbits roughly your quantum computer simulator must have the capacity to completely explore 2^N states. It quickly becomes unmanageable, and you revert to the original problem.

      Equivalently you can say that if you have the traditional computing power to solve the problems that a given quantum computer would be able to solve easily, then you approximately have the capacity to simulate this quantum computer (give or take an order of magnitude perhaps).

      Your approach wouldn't work. Perhaps a given fast computer would, say, be able to simulate 7 qbits. Then 2 such computers would only be able to simulate 8 qbits, not 14 ; a thousand such computers would only be able to simulate 17 qbits, and so on.

      BTW, some people say that the reason why we haven't been able to produce a strong AI yet is that some quantum effects happen in the brain. Roger Penrose in particular is a big proponent of this idea.

      On the other hand some AI people say that the only reasons why we haven't got strong AI yet is (a) we don't really know how the brain works yet, and (b) we need more computing capacity. More research is needed for (a), and Penrose would agree with this, but eventually we'll have all the computing capacity we need.

      However if thought is based on quantum processes then we might require quantum computers to simulate it, who knows. This could mean that strong AI is some years away.

    24. Re:Uhh... by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2, Informative

      An n qubit computer is a general 2^n state quantum system. Now emulating an N state quantum system means manipulating vectors of N complex numbers.

      Let's try an example: Let's assume that we need only as much precision that we can use a fixed point numer format with a size of one byte. Then a complex number will need 2 bytes, and the vector to just store the quantum state of an n-bit quantum computer will therefore need 2^(n+1) bytes.

      According to Wikipedia, there are 6*10^79 atoms in the universe (taking the upper limit of the range given there). That's about 2^265. Now assume we would build a classical computer which stores one (classical) bit in every atom of the whole universe, then our universe-sized classical computer would have 2^262 Bytes of memory. This would be just enough to emulate a quantum computer with only 261 qubits. Now, take a key length of more than 261 bits, and you are completely safe from that universe-sized classical computer.

      But not only the memory requirements scale exponentially, also the calculation time does. Given that the simple brute-force algorithm for factorization also has exponential time, I guess that bute-force would probably consistently beat an emulated quantum computer.

      However, if someone built a real quantum computer with 261 qubits, he'd just need 261 atoms for storing the state (assuming 1 qubit/atom), and the calculation time would be far from exponential.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    25. Re:Uhh... by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      IANAC, but as I understand it in some cases this might actually make it easier to crack. Or at least I remeber reading where one cipher with a limited keysize was chained with itself such that the first part of a longer key was used the first time through, the second part on the second time through, ect. And there was some speculation that this could actually make the cipher weaker for some subset of keys. This is all kinda vauge memory so if I'm missrembering or someone has better explanation please step up.
      The other problem is some ciphers use a fair amount of cpu power, the more that are chained together the longer it takes to encypt the plaintext. Indeed IIRC public key crypto like we're used to hearing about is most often used to just encrypt the key for a faster symetric cypher (same key encodes and decodes) that is harder to break for a given keysize because public key (asymetric) is too cpu intensive for many tasks, especially on embeded systems and older computers with weaker processors.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    26. Re:Uhh... by essreenim · · Score: 1
      This would be just enough to emulate a quantum computer with only 261 qubits. Now, take a key length of more than 261 bits, and you are completely safe from that universe-sized classical computer.

      You are hitting on a good point. By appending more bits to the ciphertext you can repel brute force attacks, but attacks will inevitable be far more sophisticated than that. Remember, as this technolgy is available to security experts, so too will it be available to crackers. The real 'key' selling point of this is that is sensitive to mig-in-the-middle attacks.

    27. Re:Uhh... by essreenim · · Score: 1

      Exactly, though I don't thnik elliptic curve encryptiopn is the best example, I do believe that classical computers will continue to have a part to play in cryptography long after any Q computer revolution.

    28. Re:Uhh... by verus+vorago · · Score: 1

      You don't try every key at once - you use an algorithm to derive the private key from the public key.

      The algorithms to do this for current processors are very expensive (i.e. take a very long time). See http://www.rsasecurity.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=219 0 for some examples.

      An algorithm (as linked to in another post) that could be run on a quantum computer can do this in about the same amount of time as it took to generate the key in the first place (i.e. very, very quickly).

      Bottom line: When someone says "only the person with the private key can decrypt it" you can automatically add "or someone with lots of computing power". A quantum computer just makes a much more efficient solution possible.

    29. Re:Uhh... by fatphil · · Score: 1

      Shor himself doesn't believe his eponymous algorithm will ever be practical. See his usenet posts from the last decade.
      IIRC, he's said that he doesn't believe QC will be practical, and thus his algorithm will never have a platform to run on.

      FP.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    30. Re:Uhh... by Dr.+Weird · · Score: 1
      I don't personally about elliptic function-based cryptography, so I will trust you. I do take issue with your statement, however, that "Presently only two useful algorithms for quantum computers are known."

      There are a number of algorithms for simulating model quantum systems, which I think will ultimately be among the most useful algorithms. They will allow unprecedented accuracy for studying the dynamics of quantum systems, allowing materials design and who-knows-what. Also, there is a quantum algorithm for diagonalizing matrices exponentially faster that could be extremely useful (but still need to be careful about measurement -- you have to measure exponentially fewer items than you put in to get the speed-up; fortunately, this is often all you desire anyway).

      But I agree with the conclusion that other asymmetric schemes are presently unbreakable on a quantum computer.

    31. Re:Uhh... by Sri+Lumpa · · Score: 1


      It depends on the ciphers and their mathematical properties but for some ciphers it would weaken them (like rot13) and for others it can strenghten them (like triple-DES).

      --
      "The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
    32. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AFAIK, it actually only threatens current public-key encryotion, which is almost entirely based upon the apparent difficulty of factoring large prime numbers. No one can do this right now, but a quantum computer could do it quite quickly. This would very, very quickly void just about all e-commerce, digital signatures, monetary transfers (?) etc.

      Symmetric key encryption is not based on products of large primes and so it is not threatened (in this way) by quantum machines.

    33. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry but I don't understand gold nuggets, and grain of sand, and large sieve with a water tray. Do you have an analogy for that?

    34. Re:Uhh... by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      Actually 3des is the broken one I was refering to but couldn't recall the name of. In some circumstances it winds up no more secure than normal des.
      DES uses 56bit keys, 3des uses 3 passes with different keys for each pass. The problem apparently lies in the fact that des has several 'modes' that can be used to encrypt. One of these modes renders 3des's 168 bit key actually no stronger than 56 bits in regular des.
      The concept that simply stacking encryption methods will result in stronger encryption is not always right as the kinds of math operation used might have cummulative properties that expose risks not otherwise present in any single encryption scheme.
      I would imagine that it's neigther a common happening, nor necessarily easy to find or take advantage of. But then again solid encryption isn't so trivial itself. However all it takes for one person to figure out how to break it and post a howto.
      This is in part why 3des is being as a crypto standard for many institutions that MUST have secure crypto.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    35. Re:Uhh... by Nebu · · Score: 1

      One of these modes renders 3des's 168 bit key actually no stronger than 56 bits in regular des.

      That's the "backwards compatibility mode". Triple DES works by taking 3 keys, performing a "forward transformation" with the first key, a "backward transformation" with the second key, and a "forward transformation" with the third key. If all 3 keys are different 56 bit keys, then this is equivalent to using a 168 bit key (56 X 3). However, if the 3 keys are the same, then this is equivalent to encrypting the plaintext, decrypting the resulting cyphertext back into plaintext, and the encrypting that plaintext back to cyphertext, with a 56 bit key.

      This mode as provided so that hardware encryption devices could be sold, that would both be backwards compatible with DES (by simply having the user use the same 56 bit key 3 times) to ease the transition to a 168 bit key system.

    36. Re:Uhh... by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1
      That is not it. The articles I read were specifically discussing a DES mode, that when used in 3-des, with different sub-keys, had a potential weakness that rendered the resulting ciphertext no more protected than simple des.
      What your talking about is a deliberate drop to DES levels, this is flaw in trying to do 3passes with des in a certain mode that renders the results no more secure than with a single 56key.
      Though most of the articles indicate the theoretical attack isn't very pratical (large volume attacks with known plaintext to extract the key), the total actuall time is on par with single des. The fear is that this shows a fundemental weakness that could have a more practical exploit.
      Try a google on 3des weakness. here's a snippet from one of the links.

      "The time requirements for the attacks are not much more than for
      breaking single DES, but the chosen ciphertext and chosen key
      requirements are the show stoppers. To pull these off, you really must
      have access to the encryption process, as it is unlikely your adversary
      will be a willing accomplice. But if you can get that kind of access,
      you can probably get plaintext and keys by much simpler methods. Folks
      like Eric Thompson at AccessData Corp. do this all the time.

      Cryptographers worry about these flaws, however, as they might be
      signs of weaknesses that could be exploited by more practical
      means. So codes are designed to withstand even theoretical attacks
      like this. The version of Triple-DES that Biham and Knudsen attacked
      had already undergone several rounds of revisions to patch up
      other weaknesses. One has to wonder, however, whether the quest
      for a method that withstands all theoretical attacks is worth the
      effort or even has an end."

      That's from :http://lists.jammed.com/IWAR/1998/03/0033.html
      While I don't know how reliable/trustworthy/knowledgeable that source is, but all the others I've seen say simular things. Of course it's possible I'm missing something here not being a cryptographer, but it shure looks like 3des has, at least theoreticly, issues.
      My real point though was that blindly chaining ciphers has potential pitfalls that may be non-obvious as well as adding cpu-time consumeing complexity.

      Mycroft
      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
  5. fp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Too bad that once the connection channel is completely secure (with quantum cryptography), people who *really* want to read the information will find otehr ways around it, i.e. infiltration, burglary, etc.

    1. Re:fp by OzRoy · · Score: 1
      If you actually read the article you would see that they acknowledge that problem. But that is a problem that will always exist, and has always existed.

      And an inside job will always prove unstoppable. "Treachery is the primary way," observes Seth Lloyd, an expert in quantum computation at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "There's nothing quantum mechanics can do about that."

    2. Re:fp by paulkoan · · Score: 1


      Or just asking. Like they do right now.

      --
      This signature intentionally left blank
  6. Arm's Race by Walker2323 · · Score: 1

    The arm's race continues. Then they'll have to invent Super Turbo Quantum Mofo Encryption to stay one step ahead.

    1. Re:Arm's Race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was it the left arm, or the right arm's race.

      OH, you mean ARMS race.

      The incorrect usage of the apostrophe threw me.

    2. Re:Arm's Race by databyss · · Score: 1

      This will surely be outpaced by Time-Travel-Plus-Teleport Encryption, where you beam yourself to the time and place you need the information and hand it off.

      --
      Hmmm witty sig or funny sig? Maybe elitest techy sig!
    3. Re:Arm's Race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish it threw you a bit harder. Ohh snap!

    4. Re:Arm's Race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Come on. The inability to distinguish between the possessive and the plural in written word is sad. In the same way that amphibians serve as biological indicator species for the health of an ecosystem, so too does poor grammar serve as an indicator of the intelligence of the author. I am left wondering if their opinions on the subject at hand are as well studied as their grammar.

    5. Re:Arm's Race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, oops...
      The quantum encryption is physically unbreakable. End of story.

    6. Re:Arm's Race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've never heard of the super-villian named "The Arm"?
      You've never heard that he sponsored an "X-Prize"-like contest to develop quantum encryption?
      That's what the OP meant by "The Arm's race continues."
      What probably threw you is that he failed to capitalize "Arm".

  7. i once read.. by KingPunk · · Score: 0

    a book on encryption and all the good stuff associated with it
    and the book's main point was that, while encryption is generally great,
    given time, no encryption has ever stood..

    its just a matter of time, until "Quantum Encryption" takes its place among these facts too.

    1. Re:i once read.. by OzRoy · · Score: 1
      There is one encryption that has always stood and that is the one time pad.

      A properly implimented one time pad using a truly random key is impossible to crack.

      Quantum encryption is based on the one time pad, and it overcomes the weakness of how you guarantee your key has been transmitted to the other person without anyone else knowing it.

    2. Re:i once read.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One time pads can - and have - been cracked. Knowledge of some of the cleartext gives a huge mathematical advantage to working out what the key might be - in WWII, one side or the other would cause 'something' to happen, and assume somewhere in the cyphertext would be that location. Or listening for a known preamble. Or the weather details... just took a bit more 'human intuition'.

      But this relies on having a copy of the cyphertext. With QE, there's no way to know what bits of the cyphertext mean anything, and which are noise Alice sends because she knows Bob will ignore it. And you'll lose 50% of the message, anyway.

      But this DoS's Bob nicely... Especially if they get the air transmission working, I can see lots of equipment being built to cause outages...

    3. Re:i once read.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      this is such a troll... why am i biting?

      one time pads have never been creacked, and cannot be cracked. the "one time" piece means that you cannot look for patterns! cmon.

    4. Re:i once read.. by Sipos · · Score: 1
      Quantum encryption may not be as hard to crack as people think. Firstly there is the problem that it relies on only one photon ever being transmitted at a time. You can easily reduce the power such that so few photons are transmitted that the probability of this happening is small but you can not ever eliminate the chance. Also the less power you have the more times no photon is transmitted at all and so the slower the connection. So in practice people will use enough power that there will be a small chance of obtaining the key (although this chance will be really really small if security is really important).

      Assuming that it is unbreakable is dangerous. Quantum Theory while a very good theory is not the end of the story. The quantum systems people study to understand what is happening when a photon is emitted and transmitted through a optical fibber are also a simplification of what really happens and although the assumptions made are good ones there may be some subtle effect present that is only apparent when you solve a much more detailed (currently unsolvable) problem that more closely models reality. There may turn out to be away to crack it. No one can say for sure.

  8. Eve? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    If someone tries to intercept this stream of photons--call her Eve--she cannot measure both modes, thanks to Heisenberg.
    What happened to Trudy?
    1. Re:Eve? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  9. Whole Article, One page by chadw17 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The printer-friendly version puts it all on one nice and image free page.
    Article here

  10. Heisenburg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The ultimate technology to emerge from the field may be a quantum computer so powerful that the only way to protect against its prodigious code-breaking capability may be to deploy quantum-cryptographic techniques.

    It's already available in some universes. Which is why R&D for quantum computers is one of the best jobs you could possibly get; you just hang around until one pops up.

    1. Re:Heisenburg by djupedal · · Score: 1

      you just hang around until one pops up

      Actually, following Heisenburg dictum (using analog methods, of course), it's more along the lines of you popping up where it is - make sure to wear clean underware at all times while you wait.

      Anyone seen John? He was right here a minute ago...

    2. Re:Heisenburg by brunos · · Score: 1

      Well, it is much more difficult to make a quantum computer than it is to make a quantum cryptography system: the only difficult thing of a quantum cryptographic system is having a single photon source: if I remember right the heisemberg uncertianty principle for phase and number states that if you know exactly how many photons you emit, you will never know when you actually emit them; and viceversa, if you know when you emit them, you really don't know how many you emitted. Also, as emitted photons will follow a poissonian distribution, the most likely time for another photon to be emitted is right after the other one; so you can eavesdrop by catching one photon and not the other. But I very much doubt that a quantum computer will be made before 10-20 years: there is a process called decoherence that basically "damages" your quantum states as you try to scale them up to macroscopic objects. That is the reason you do not see a really big "shrodinger's cat": the time for which the cat is dead or alife would be so short that it has absolutely no meaning. We manage to scale up the quantum states only to a "few" atoms.

  11. Quantum Encryption by Ziwcam · · Score: 1

    I think this is only another example in a long line of encryption that was quite secure when envisioned, but then as computers became more and more powerful, became less and less secure. Eventually, we will have quantum computers capable of brute-forcing even quantum encryption...

    1. Re:Quantum Encryption by k98sven · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think [..] Eventually, we will have quantum computers capable of brute-forcing even quantum encryption...

      Well, you think wrong. Quantum encryption cannot be 'brute-forced'. Because it's not 'encryption' in the conventional sense but rather 'secure transmission'. The data is not encoded, but rather transmitted in a way which makes eavesdropping impossible. Since you can't intercept any 'coded message', there is nothing for you to brute-force.

      And this holds as long as what we know of quantum mechanics holds.
      (More specifically, the Bell inequality. Which was verified in the famous Aspect experiment.)

      So no, nothing in quantum physics is going to invalidate quantum encryption. And I wouldn't get my hopes up for future theories, either, because this 'wierdness' of quantum mechanics so well-verified experimentally that it'd be unlikely that any future theory would change it. (But hopefully explain it)

    2. Re:Quantum Encryption by menscher · · Score: 1
      Eventually, we will have quantum computers capable of brute-forcing even quantum encryption...

      No, we won't. It's an interesting thought, but it doesn't work that way. According to the laws of physics (as we currently understand them) quantum encryption, if done properly, is provably secure. That is, there is no way to break the encryption, unless quantum mechanics itself is flawed.

      Of course, there are other attacks. For example, QC (quantum cryptography) requires you to pick the polarization basis randomly. If you don't pick it randomly enough then there's a bias that could potentially be exploited by an attacker. And it's difficult to be random at high speeds, so QC will probably be limited to slow speeds, at least at first.

      The real problem with QC is that it requires a point-to-point transaction, with no repeaters. So it doesn't really work with the internet. Still, it could be useful for Whitehouse-to-Pentagon communications, or other similar setups.

    3. Re:Quantum Encryption by l0b0 · · Score: 1
      Eventually, we will have quantum computers capable of brute-forcing even quantum encryption...

      IIRC from The Code Book, you can have basically unbreakable crypto-algorithms. The clue is to make the key as long as the message (thereby wasting 50% bandwidth, but what the heck). Then, if the key is properly randomized, any attempt to decrypt it will result in _all_ messages of that size, which basically means that for most purposes, decryption will not result in any useful information.

    4. Re:Quantum Encryption by arose · · Score: 1
      The real problem with QC is that it requires a point-to-point transaction, with no repeaters.
      And that's where the "axe in the middle" attack comes in.
      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    5. Re:Quantum Encryption by fodderb0y · · Score: 0

      The point that these two guys are alleging, btw, is Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle which states that observation of a particle changes the probability of it's existence to virtually zero.

      So, if one were to attempt to 'brute force' attack a quantum crypto-stream, one would have to have had to receive a copy of that stream before it hit the 'quantum wire', ie before it reached the point where quantum mechanics superceded the laws of the seeable, knowable universe.

      Not impossible, but not likely either.

      Once again, Slashdot and it's readers manages to fuck up a fantastic article written months in print.

      Looks like you assholes need to learn how to read.

    6. Re:Quantum Encryption by OzRoy · · Score: 1

      No that is not quite right.

      You still encrypt the final message. All the quantum part does is tell you when a third party has intercepted your data stream. It does not prevent a person from reading it.

      So what you do is you generate a random key and transmit that to the other person. The key is random junk that will be used to encrypt the final message. If a person reads this you can detect it and all you do is recreate the key and try again.

      You just keep trying to send a new random key until it is sent without anyone reading it. Once it is sent successfully you encrypt your message using it, and transmit the newly encrypted message to the other person using traditional methods.

      A person is free to intercept this message because it's not possible to brute force a message using a truly random key.

    7. Re:Quantum Encryption by mark99 · · Score: 1

      Can't believe I missed this...

      So you can't actually transmit info with QE? (that makes sense when I think about it. All you can do really is look at cats).

      The best you can do is exchange a one-time key.

      Which does make brute force impossible of course, if your encrpytion technique is any good.

      Too bad, that makes the quantum channels in Singularity Sky non-sense.

    8. Re:Quantum Encryption by k98sven · · Score: 1

      All the quantum part does is tell you when a third party has intercepted your data stream. It does not prevent a person from reading it.


      That is not quite right either. Because by intercepting the data, you alter it. I didn't say it physically prevented anyone from reading it - I said it prevented eavesdropping. And if you're changing the data, (and it's detectable too) then that's hardly 'eavesdropping' is it? Communication is not possible at all if someone is listening in, since the data is being destroyed by the eavesdropper. Because the way the scheme works, is that if a message from A to B is not recived correctly by B (which it is not if someone is 'listening in'), then neither B nor the eavesdropper will gain any information.

      You just keep trying to send a new random key until it is sent without anyone reading it. Once it is sent successfully you encrypt your message using it, and transmit the newly encrypted message to the other person using traditional methods.

      This is quantum key exchange. It's an application of quantum cryptography, practical since you can send a nearly uncrackable conventional crytographic key which is still smaller than the data you want to send, and use a conventional (and faster) method of communication.

      But if you're going to use a random one-time-pad, where the key is the same size as the data you want to send, you might as well send the message instead.

    9. Re:Quantum Encryption by OzRoy · · Score: 1
      But if you're going to use a random one-time-pad, where the key is the same size as the data you want to send, you might as well send the message instead.

      No that doesn't work. Using the quantum technique does not prevent a third party from reading the information. So if I send a message to you using the quantum method you may recieve garbage, but the third party will have read the information fine and will know what I just sent. That kind of defeats the purpose of wanting to encrypt something.

      Quantum encryption is a misleading name. You are not using quantum mechanics to encrypt anything, all you are doing is using quantum mechanics to send a key to the other person that you Know to be secure.

      If you read the article it is right there on the first page:
      The direction in which the photons oscillated, their polarization, represented the 0s or 1s of a series of quantum bits, or qubits. The qubits constituted a cryptographic "key" that could be used to encrypt or decipher a message. What kept the key from prying eavesdroppers was Heisenberg's uncertainty principle--a foundation of quantum physics that dictates that the measurement of one property in a quantum state will perturb another. In a quantum cryptographic system, any interloper tapping into the stream of photons will alter them in a way that is detectable to the sender and the receiver. In principle, the technique provides the makings of an unbreakable cryptographic key.

    10. Re:Quantum Encryption by OzRoy · · Score: 1
      I would like to correct myself.

      I was wrong about being able to send any information using quantum mechanics. The probability of being able to read any individual bit is 50%. So you can only ever read 50% of any message.

      However, you can then contact the other person and tell them which photons you were able to read, and use those photons as the key.

    11. Re:Quantum Encryption by Molt · · Score: 1

      That's a One Time Pad, the message is XOR'ed with the key to produce the encrypted content, and then the encrypted content is XOR'ed with the key to decode back to the original message.

      The problem is anyone with the key and the encrypted content can decrypt your messages, so the key needs to be sent over secure channels. A side issue here is if you have any provably secure channels, why're you not just sending the message over it in the first place?

      The one way this is actually used at all in practice is when people can do the key transfer face-to-face, or via similar trusted but slow method, and then use it to encrypt a message at a later date.

      Provably secure, but highly impractical.

      --
      404 Not Found: No such file or resource as '.sig'
    12. Re:Quantum Encryption by k98sven · · Score: 1

      I was wrong about being able to send any information using quantum mechanics. The probability of being able to read any individual bit is 50%. So you can only ever read 50% of any message.

      Including eavesdroppers, which, if they are intercepting the signal, lower the probability to zero for the intended recipient.

      However, you can then contact the other person and tell them which photons you were able to read, and use those photons as the key.

      Yes, and this can be done using a series of parity checks and other techniques which reveal no useful information. That way, noise-affected (or intercepted) bits can be discarded, and the probability of a match between the sent and recived information can be lowered to an arbitrarily low number. This information can then be used as an encryption key (as you wrote).

      But as I said, if your message is the same size as the number of bits transferred, you can still send the message directly (not encrypted). You can publicly state "Bit 5 is the first bit of the message, Bit 7 is the second.." and so on. Since these are bits you know that the eavesdropper does not have, you provide no information.

    13. Re:Quantum Encryption by tgibbs · · Score: 1

      I think this is only another example in a long line of encryption that was quite secure when envisioned, but then as computers became more and more powerful, became less and less secure. Eventually, we will have quantum computers capable of brute-forcing even quantum encryption...

      Barring the discovery of fundamental new physics, there is no brute-force attack on quantum encryption. In principle, it is a version of the one-time pad, the only encryption scheme that is immune to any kind of brute force attack. What quantum encryption solves is the secure key delivery problem, which is what has always limited the practicality of one-time-pads.

    14. Re:Quantum Encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      probability of it's existence

      "its".

      Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle which states that observation of a particle changes the probability of it's existence to virtually zero.

      That is just so wrong. I observe trillions of particles every second, but very few of them cease to exist. The HUP posits that observing a particle changes its state. In other words, if I measure some property of a particle, other properties of that particle change. In no way does that change the probability of the particle's existence to virtually zero.

    15. Re:Quantum Encryption by menscher · · Score: 1
      The point that these two guys are alleging, btw, is Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle which states that observation of a particle changes the probability of it's existence to virtually zero.

      What two guys? And the uncertainty principle doesn't say that at all.

      So, if one were to attempt to 'brute force' attack a quantum crypto-stream, one would have to have had to receive a copy of that stream before it hit the 'quantum wire', ie before it reached the point where quantum mechanics superceded the laws of the seeable, knowable universe.

      There is no "before". The photons are entangled at the moment of their creation.

      Not impossible, but not likely either.

      Actually, it is impossible. Unless quantum mechanics is a flawed theory, of course.

      Once again, Slashdot and it's readers manages to fuck up a fantastic article written months in print.

      Looks like you assholes need to learn how to read.

      Actually, to be honest, I didn't read the article before responding. But that's probably because I was doing research in quantum computers back in 1996-97, and didn't feel that there were any major changes in the foundations since then. And I've known the details of quantum cryptography since about 2001, when I had an interesting chat with a researcher in that field.

      But, just to humor you, I read the article. And now I know that there are two companies selling products. Which is rather amusing, because I would guess those products to be snake oil. As I'd mentioned in the grandparent post, it's very difficult to randomly select a polarization basis randomly at a high bitrate. I don't believe this issue has been resolved yet, so I would be wary of any products claiming perfect security.

      Nice troll, BTW.

    16. Re:Quantum Encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      (More specifically, the Bell inequality. Which was verified in the famous Aspect experiment.)

      Not quite true, there are speculations on if his experiment did actually do this. A guy named Fransons was the one to point out a possible fault in his experiment (since were talking about Q.M. nothing is certain so the fault is only "possible" :-) ).

      See for instance http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Quantum/bell s_inequality.html/

    17. Re:Quantum Encryption by OzRoy · · Score: 1
      But as I said, if your message is the same size as the number of bits transferred, you can still send the message directly (not encrypted). You can publicly state "Bit 5 is the first bit of the message, Bit 7 is the second.." and so on. Since these are bits you know that the eavesdropper does not have, you provide no information.

      But you don't know if another person has read the data until After you send the data, at which point it's too late. They have everything and they will be able to work out what the message says even if they don't know which are the correct bits because it's not encrypted, or more accuratly encrypted in such a basic way any machine can get the correct message in no time.

      Read this guys post. It's very well written, and explains it perfectly. http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=136672&cid= 11417588

    18. Re:Quantum Encryption by Walkingshark · · Score: 1

      Want to know how to break quantum encryption? Its easy. Put a gun to the head of the dude who has the key and say, "Decrypt it or I put a fucking bullet in your skull." I call it Scorsese algorythm decryption. Its exponentially faster than all that other crap.

      --
      The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
    19. Re:Quantum Encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      If you are a believer in Quantum Theories, and knowledgable of the advances in Physics, then I would think that you would be optimistic of a throery to come around that makes Quantum Encryption obsolete.

      Look at it this way: For years, Newtonian Theories were believed to be principles of the universe. Then Einstein came along and added theories that expanded on Newton. Then Quantum Physics expanded on Einstein. Each principle invalidates a portion of the previous theories.

      In fact, the theories are coming more rapidly.

      Call it A/C's law (sort of like Moore's Law): Each theory will only hold up half as long as the previous theory.

      That means that Quantum Encryption is actually more likely to be brute-force cracked sooner, rather than later. In fact, I give it 30 years.

      Although this new law is credited to Anonymous Coward, call me Seinfeld's Cat.... remember you heard it here first.

    20. Re:Quantum Encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, not quite. Quantum encryption depends on Heisenbergs uncertainty principle. If you read the message, the message is destroyed. If you eavesdrop the message, the message is destroyed. The act of tapping a line caused the message to be changed. If the sender sends, and the reciever does not recieve (when they expect to), the sender can quickly inform the sender, and the sender quits. It can happen in the space of 1 bit. 1 bit contains no information. Even a byte can contain only 1 letter, which cannot be considered information (there is a lot of information that uses letters), so messages are secure from end to end.

    21. Re:Quantum Encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems that quantum teleportation ( referred to in the article as the means by which repeaters will be created ) could also serve as a means of eaves dropping. Quantum teleportation would allow the eavesdropper to create two copies of the photon, one which would continue on its way to bob, the other to eve.

      -drntesla

  12. LOP's? by ackthpt · · Score: 1
    The ultimate technology to emerge from the field may be a quantum computer so powerful that the only way to protect against its prodigious code-breaking capability may be to deploy quantum-cryptographic techniques

    How about they just issue LOP's on silk?

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:LOP's? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOP?

      Loss of pointer?
      Line of path?
      Logical operation plan?
      Low on power?
      Least objectionable program?
      Language oriented programming?
      Letter of permission?
      Local Office Policy?

    2. Re:LOP's? by igb · · Score: 1

      Letter One Time Pad. One Time Pads, used
      correctly, are unbreakable by any technology
      including `quantum computers', and using Letters
      rather than Numbers increases the physical density
      of the material by a factor of 2.6.

      ian

  13. Pretty gooder privacy by liangzai · · Score: 1

    I for one welcome our new quantum-cryptographical overlords.

  14. Bah... by JohnPerkins · · Score: 2, Funny

    tshtuatpptenaynrirragagcuoyomq

    1. Re:Bah... by AmericaHater · · Score: 1
      tshtuatpptenaynrirragagcuoyomq

      Pah!
      fh@f h0ool =fdw- g/21f

  15. sweet upgrade by g0dsp33d · · Score: 2, Funny

    so long bits, hello tits.

    Trinary digITs here we come!

    --
    lol: You see no door there!
  16. Good for telco's? by afidel · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Will the need for an unbroken end-to-end light pipe finally lead to enough demand to light up some of that dark fibre that is sitting on the telco's books?

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    1. Re:Good for telco's? by timbos · · Score: 1

      No, because that fibre is wired up collinearly with currently lit fibre. It will pass through the same amplifers etc. that the current networks use.
      IOW just because it's dark doesn't make it an end to end single piece of glass.

    2. Re:Good for telco's? by Eraser_ · · Score: 1

      No (to add on to the other response here). The dark fibre that everyone is sitting on right now is mainly only trunk fibre, and does not run last mile. I imagine any kind of splice would be NotGoodEnough for quantum appliations. Amplifiers are right out as well I bet, or else you would have to keep them in the loop as far as keys go.

  17. Baloney. by Pendersempai · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Quantum cryptography is a solution in search of a problem. It cannot implement public key/private key cryptography, and it can transmit only through a single uninterrupted fiber-optic cable, not over the internet at large. Given those limitations (which I don't think can be surmounted), one might as well use tremendous, digital one-time pads. Transmission of the pads to the relevant parties should be strictly easier than the quantum cryptographic solution: if nothing else, generate terabytes of noise, store it on a RAID, and put it in a car with ten intensely loyal guys. After you've done that, you can send up to that amount of data securely over the internet at large, and no amount of quantum hocus-pocus will be able to decode it.

    1. Re:Baloney. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Oh my God, you're right. We will stop our work immediately, I can't believe we didn't think of this before.

      -- Charles Bennett

    2. Re:Baloney. by Dr.+Photo · · Score: 1

      Transmission of the pads to the relevant parties should be strictly easier than the quantum cryptographic solution: if nothing else, generate terabytes of noise, store it on a RAID, and put it in a car with ten intensely loyal guys.

      I like this proposal. Companies who can't find ten intensely loyal employees probably don't deserve to have secrets. ;-)

    3. Re:Baloney. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No Public key Crypto. Less distance than the internet. Lame.

    4. Re:Baloney. by OzRoy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I quote the apropriate part from the article for the lazy parent who has not RTFA.

      Ultimately cryptographers want some form of quantum repeater--in essence, an elementary form of quantum computer that would overcome distance limitations. A repeater would work through what Albert Einstein famously called "spukhafte Fernwirkungen," spooky action at a distance. Anton Zeilinger and his colleagues at the Institute of Experimental Physics in Vienna, Austria, took an early step toward a repeater when they reported in the August 19, 2004, issue of Nature that their group had strung an optical-fiber cable in a sewer tunnel under the Danube River and stationed an "entangled" photon at each end. The measurement of the state of polarization in one photon (horizontal, vertical, and so on) establishes immediately an identical polarization that can be measured in the other.

      And it continues on this page http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&arti cleID=000479CD-F58C-11BE-AD0683414B7F0000&pageNumb er=3&catID=2

    5. Re:Baloney. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, what do you then need the key for? If you have a method for transmitting the key securely, why not transmit the message instead?

    6. Re:Baloney. by wwest4 · · Score: 1

      > It cannot implement public key/private key cryptography

      In terms of cryptography only, quantum is next-gen. It obsoletes assymetric key crypto.

      > one might as well use tremendous, digital one-time pads.

      Except that OTPs are insecure without a quantum key exchange.

      > generate terabytes of noise, store it on a RAID

      Storing the key to a one-time pad would just be stupid.

      > no amount of quantum hocus-pocus will be able to decode it.

      An attacker won't need quantum hocus-pocus if you generate the key insecurely and then store it.

    7. Re:Baloney. by tftp · · Score: 1
      Given those limitations (which I don't think can be surmounted)

      Think outside of the box. Bounce the laser light off of a satellite. Directly communicate with planets and spaceships. That's where most of the communication will be occurring within 100 years.

    8. Re:Baloney. by imagin8or · · Score: 2, Informative

      In the world of cryptography, there is no greater problem than key distribution. If I have a bank, and I want a secure connection to the head office, I need a big enough one-time pad to cover all the transactions for, say, a month. This is nigh-on impossible, as the amount of data is too huge. It also creates a huge weak point in the whole operation in allowing someone to infiltrate the courier, block deliveries, copy the data, etc. Public key cryptography (mainly via RSA) was the answer to that problem. A public server can hold people's public keys, and only the intended recipient can read messages encrypted with them. So now, RSA is used to encrypt the key for a symmetric cryptosystem which is subsequently used. Quantum computing, however, breaks that security by making the private key available from knowing only the public key. Sure, the devices are not that big yet, but people like those I work for are working on scaleable technology that will put large devices within reach. Sure, for most people, it's not an issue. Only people with million-dollar quantum computers could break their encryption and steal their credit card data. But governments still need secure communication, and banks still need to secure their transactions. So for those with a serious need, there is Quantum Key Distribution, as outlined in the article. QKD is not 'breakable' in any sense. You cannot only intercept the classical communication channel and somehow obtain the original data. The only possible attacks are based on good access to the fibre used for the quantum key. Some of us can see methods of intercepting the key with various degrees of success if you can get to the fibre. The easier ones rely on non-ideal implementation of the method - multi-photon bursts, polarisation dependent fibre, insensitivity to mode biasing. Oh, and the traditional piggy-in-the-middle trick is (and always will be) entirely undetectable.

    9. Re:Baloney. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um, isn't the piggy in the middle attack entirely detectable if you use signed keys?

    10. Re:Baloney. by bgeiger · · Score: 1

      > generate terabytes of noise, store it on a RAID

      Storing the key to a one-time pad would just be stupid.


      Well, you need to store the one-time pad until it's used, right? That's what the OP is saying, I think. You need two copies of an OTP to use it (one for each end).

      --
      o/~ All God's children shall be free in Pirates of the Caribbean, when we reach that Magic Kingdom in the sky... o/~
    11. Re:Baloney. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please don't post anymore, nobody wants your clueless drivel

    12. Re:Baloney. by m50d · · Score: 1

      We've got working photon transmission through 2km of air. I think that's only going to increase. Besides, there are plenty of people for whom a single absolutely secure fiber-optic cable is worthwhile. Banks, for example, could probably use a guaranteed secure link to their national headquaters.

      --
      I am trolling
    13. Re:Baloney. by Twylite · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hmm, I don't know who you work for, but I suggest hiring someone with a Clue.

      Banks, by and large, do not use asymmetric cryptography like RSA to secure their transactions. The standard for retail and wholesale banking environments is Triple DES, and it's not likely to change for some time, since they've only just finished moving there.

      Keys are distributed by loading them into secure, tamper-responsive devices in a trusted environment where no sniffing can occur; then the devices are sent to where they are needed. Key derivation and exchange protocols ensure that these initial keys are minimally used and difficult to compromise, and that limited amounts of data are protected by each session key.

      The whole point of quantum key distribution is that you can transfer a key in a manner that is impossible to compromise without the sender and/or intended recipient knowing. From the article: "any interloper tapping into the stream of photons will alter them in a way that is detectable to the sender and the receiver".

      So A randomly generates a key K using normal cryptographic techniques, and sends it to B over a "quantum channel". If E or M attempt to listen in or modify the channel, they will necessarily destroy the data and B will not receive what A sent (which is also why you cannot use amplifiers or repeaters). Moreover, since A and B also communicate via a regular electronic network, they are both aware of the attack, and will not use key K.

      The end result is that A can send a random key K to B, with perfect knowledge that B and only B is the recipient of K. No need for asymmetric crypto -- everything can proceed using symmetric key cryptography.

      Problem is, quantum computers will likely be able to break strong symmetric keys (128 bits plus) long before they can factor RSA keys; but that's still under debate.

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    14. Re:Baloney. by Karhgath · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but in QKD(Quantum Key Distribution) you generate OTP keys on the fly, so you actually don't need a "pad" to store keys, meaning someone cannot stole your keys.

    15. Re:Baloney. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah but it's still just an untappable line. It doesn't help for digital signatures, or the various other snazzy applications of public-key crypto detailed in Applied Cryptography.

    16. Re:Baloney. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your mom seems to like it.

    17. Re:Baloney. by zev1983 · · Score: 1

      The only problem is quantum entanglement is that the entangled state of the photon is inherently unpredictable (think cat in the box) and hence useless for communication.

      Also the quantum state of one entagled photon would be the opposite of the other one that was measured, not the same as the article states.

    18. Re:Baloney. by Nimey · · Score: 1
      Ultimately cryptographers want some form of quantum repeater
      A repeater sounds like a perfect medium for the man-in-the-middle attack that would be otherwise impossible with quantum systems. Just replace a repeater with your own doctored version that tees output to your receiver. OTOH, am I fundamentally misunderstanding the properties of quantum transmission?
      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    19. Re:Baloney. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, you DO need to store it somehow. The raw key you received are not immediately useful. In most QKD protocols, there needs to be some communication (can be done over public channel) between Alice and Bob to discuss which keys to keep or throw.

    20. Re:Baloney. by amorsen · · Score: 1
      OTOH, am I fundamentally misunderstanding the properties of quantum transmission?

      Yes. With a quantum repeater, you can forward or transform a quantum state without actually measuring it. If you try to put in a doctored version, you need to actually measure the state and pass on a newly created one. That will cause instant communication breakdown.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    21. Re:Baloney. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Think outside of the box.

      Yes, then let's run it up the flagpole and see if anybody salutes. Remember, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. There is no I in team. We've got to keep all our oars in the water. Give 110%.

    22. Re:Baloney. by Pendersempai · · Score: 1

      Because you can transmit the key before you know what the message will be. So, for example, at the beginning of the year you could transmit a 10 terabyte OTP key, and then throughout the year, gradually transmit and unbreakably encrypt up to ten terabytes of data. A bank would therefore not need to send a car with ten intensely loyal guys every single time someone made a transaction; instead, they could do it only once in January.

    23. Re:Baloney. by Pendersempai · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter if you get working photon transmission through infinity kilometers of air. The earth curves. I admit that an international infrastructure of quantum repeaters (which we can't yet make) put on satellites and coupled with a carefully routed ground-based network might provide everyone with workable quantum cryptography. But I really wonder and seriously doubt whether the expense involved with this would provide unbreakable bandwidth sufficient to overcome the already-available technology of large digital one-time pads. Once you've distributed the one-time pads, you HAVE a "guaranteed secure link to their national headquarters": the internet. That's with today's technology and minimal expense.

  18. Wait till DVD Jon hears about this by julie-h · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Jon, we have a situation. We need your to do your stuff."

    1. Re:Wait till DVD Jon hears about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Seriously, if you're reading this Jon, please write a decoder for Bink/Smacker videos, so I can play NWN with movies on my cheapo consumer sound card, and so I can play Homeworld with movies.

      Thanks

  19. TFA is quite ..umm.. cryptic by Gopal.V · · Score: 2, Informative
    Eventhough it looks as if it has been written for a layman , the article is quite cryptic (and IMHO nothing new).
    If someone tries to intercept this stream of photons--call her Eve--she cannot measure both modes, thanks to Heisenberg. If she makes the measurements in the wrong mode, even if she resends the bits to Bob in the same way she measured them, she will inevitably introduce errors. Alice and Bob can detect the presence of the eavesdropper by comparing selected bits and checking for errors.
    Ok, if you use a single photon to send the information , it cannot be eavesdropped. But in the current networks it'll only go around a couple of meteres at Max and you can't use an amplifier/repeater with this. So really, how are we going to use this in real life ?. The concept has been there for decades now - ie an OTP created with entropy drawn from the quantum uncertainity rather than just psuedo random codes.

    The real advantage of using entangled photons would be in sending information faster than light. Entangled Photons in Computers actually might solve all the copper issues in speed we're having in chip DIE size vs clock speed (as in how to get a signal from one end of the chip to the other in a single clock signal).

    1. Re:TFA is quite ..umm.. cryptic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But in the current networks it'll only go around a couple of meteres at Max and you can't use an amplifier/repeater with this. So really, how are we going to use this in real life ?

      Who said using it on current networks? In real life, custom networks are used, of course.

      Sending information faster than light is likely not possible. The FAQ you linked to says that too. Currently, theory says no, and experiment can't tell. Some have chosen to interpret their experiments as supporting FTL transmission of information. But the majority do not agree with that interpretation.

      Using photons in computers in any form is so far off that suggesting it as a solution to current day problems like die size vs clock speed is ridiculous.

    2. Re:TFA is quite ..umm.. cryptic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The reply above this should really be modded up.

      The parent gives the impression that FTL communication is possible while the FAQ and the reply both say that isn't true.

    3. Re:TFA is quite ..umm.. cryptic by timbos · · Score: 2, Informative
      Ok, if you use a single photon to send the information , it cannot be eavesdropped. But in the current networks it'll only go around a couple of meteres at Max and you can't use an amplifier/repeater with this.

      Not so. My girlfriend is working on this. They have managed to send keys at large data-rates over conventional networks up to a distance of several tens of kilometers. In fibre networks, this distance approaches the pitch of the amplifiers.

      You are right about not being able to amplify the signal though.

    4. Re:TFA is quite ..umm.. cryptic by OzRoy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Quantum entanglment cannot be used to send information faster than light, as explained here

    5. Re:TFA is quite ..umm.. cryptic by enbody · · Score: 1
      Unfortunately, systems based on entanglement appear to have a theoretical exploitable weakness which the quantum key exchange based on BB84 protocol does not have. See this article from EE Times.

      [BB84]C.H. Bennett and G. Brassard "Quantum Cryptography: Public Key Distribution and Coin Tossing", Proceedings of IEEE International Conference on Computers Systems and Signal Processing, Bangalore India, December 1984, pp 175-179.

    6. Re:TFA is quite ..umm.. cryptic by Dusabre · · Score: 1

      You're mistaking generation of one-time codes with an encryption system than cannot be eavesdropped. RTFA carefully.

    7. Re:TFA is quite ..umm.. cryptic by spottedkangaroo · · Score: 1
      Your linked article does state that you can't transmit information faster than light because you cannot affect the state of the particle...

      However, a quantum repeater is different. And it is something that they'll create at some point. No new information is created, it's just transmitted... I guess...

      Though, I'm getting all my information from the sciam article I read a month ago, which was in layman's terms and I don't remember it very clearly anyway.

      However, I'm quite certian that if people smarter than me think they can make it... then they can.

      --
      Imagine if you weren't allowed to use roads because a bus company complained about your driving 3 times. --skunkpussy
    8. Re:TFA is quite ..umm.. cryptic by djfray · · Score: 1

      .... However, I'm quite certian that if people smarter than me think they can make it... then they can...... A bunch of corporate executives thought that same thing during the cybernetic age when a bunch of smart computer scientists were convinced that thinking machines were just around the corner.

      --
      This sig is o Unfunny o Funny
    9. Re:TFA is quite ..umm.. cryptic by timbos · · Score: 1

      is NOT doing this. She is not using a single photon to send the information, since there are no reliable single-photon sources. These quantum cryptography systems are a scam, since they really send some number of photons > 1.
      If Eve intercepts just one photon in the burst, the other photons get through and the eavesdropping can't be detected.

      This assumes that there are >1 photons in the pulse. The pulses are highly attenuated so that there are (on average) 0.1 photons in a pulse.
      Of course, some pulses may contain >1 photons, but the probability of that is small enough that it's not enough to worry about.

      i.e. Even if 1 in 2 pulses contain >1 photon, Eve still only has half of the key. Coupled with this fact, the other (single photon) pulses will most likely have been intercepted and allow alice and bob to know that they are being watched.

  20. what, me worry? by LiquidMind · · Score: 2, Funny

    "...a quantum computer so powerful that the only way to protect against its prodigious code-breaking capability may be to deploy quantum-cryptographic techniques."

    scary stuff....however, a simpsons quote comes to mind:

    Alien 1: It seems the earthlings won.
    Alien 2: Did they? That board with a nail in it may have defeated us. But the humans won't stop there. They'll make bigger boards and bigger nails, and soon, they will make a board with a nail so big, it will destroy them all!
    [both aliens laugh evilly, for quite some time]

    --
    This sig contains repetition and redundancy.
    1. Re:what, me worry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's amazing... with no concept whatsoever of the point of the article, you can simply make a shitty simpsons reference and get modded up. What a useful moderation system you have here...

    2. Re:what, me worry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > [both aliens laugh evilly, for quite some time]

      The reason that they did that was because the writers ran out of ideas. I've noticed that in many Simpson's episodes.

  21. It's all a game by pele_smk · · Score: 1

    Is this new? A proof of concept for any encryption cracking should be a video game patch. So it stands on top for a couple hours, only to be knocked down by crackers a short time later. Is this really something new? Every time a new patch comes out it's like the world expects it to stop everything.

    Lets be realistic, if we didn't leave our trash on the table at the mall where would the guy that gets paid to clean it up go? Same with security. If we didn't have people to break into stuff, where would all the security professionals go? There's no stopping it, might as well enjoy it. Keep quantum costly and that will be its firewall, keep quantum available to only the elite and that will be the encryption, put it on newegg and watch me buy one, meaning the technology is no longer useful and has been hacked.

    I truly don't see how anything that travels outside of ones' self could ever be secure. As soon as your password reaches your fingertips and is typed, data is no longer secure.

    1. Re:It's all a game by whataboutMike · · Score: 1

      Please, no generic rants. However unneeded "Quantum encryption" may be. It can serve a purpose. Proving that a stream of bits HAS NOT BEEN intercepted. Physicaly there is no way to intercept a "quantumly encrypted stream" without altering it.

  22. heard that before, somewhere... by djupedal · · Score: 0

    'a quantum computer so powerful'

    See those fjords? Those are mine!

  23. Ridiculously overblown by eddeye · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Quantum "encryption" is for the most part useless. It's just another way to exchange symmetric keys. The advantages are purely information-theoretic; in the real world, classical methods are just as good and a whole lot cheaper.

    It's like replacing a steel deadbolt with titanium, meanwhile the door is wooden, the hinges are brass, and there's a large window right next to it.

    The only possible uses are extremely high-value applications like banking and the military. Even then I'd spend my money elsewhere.

    The breaking RSA stuff is unrelated (quantum computers, not quantum key exchange) and pure speculation. RSA isn't going away for a loooong time.

    --
    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
    1. Re:Ridiculously overblown by adamruck · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If my understand is correct, which I think it might be, then you are completely wrong.

      Quantum encryption is not about exchanging keys, its not even encryption in its normal sense. What it really is, is secure trasmission.

      Secure meaning, nobody can read this data during transmission other than the reciever without it being physically impossible to notice.

      --
      Selling software wont make you money, selling a service will.
    2. Re:Ridiculously overblown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quantum encryption is most definatly not about secure transmission.

      With this setup, you don't even get to choose which data you send. But both parties get the same data.

      That data is used as a key, with which the information is encrypted, and then the encrypted information is transferred in a more traditional way.

      OK?

    3. Re:Ridiculously overblown by OzRoy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Classical methods are not just as good.

      Any public-private key encryption can be broken through brute force. What keeps them secure is that most of the time it takes a long time to break them.

      With the development of quantum computers (which some people believe can be done within the next 20 years) it will only take a few seconds to break ANY public/private key encrypted message.

      A message sent using quantum encryption cannot be broken by brute force.

    4. Re:Ridiculously overblown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Quantum encryption is not about exchanging keys, its not even encryption in its normal sense. What it really is, is secure trasmission.

      There is somewhat a contradiction in that statement : I agree, quantum encryption is about secure transmission.
      But it is also about exchanging keys : with it you can exchange keys securely. When you're certain your keys were not intercepted, you can then send the message encrypted with these keys, maybe with a more classical mean of communication

    5. Re:Ridiculously overblown by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1
      Communication (and so, key exchange) via quantum particles does have the advantage that by the laws of physics, it is impossible for an eavesdropper to listen and remain undetected.

      Quantum computation is a whole other matter. Complexity Theory sorts problems into classes such as the famous P and NP classes ($1 million to anyone who can prove P=NP or P!=NP). Determining whether a number is prime is in P. Factoring a number is in NP. Actually, factoring is in QP, the set of problems solvable in polynomial time by a quantum computer. P is a subset of QP is a subset of NP. Whether QP=NP is not known. Whether it is possible to make a big enough quantum computer is not known. (I entertain the thought that quantum computers might have the same problem as warp drive-- they would work except that they take far more power than it will ever be possible to supply.)

      Since NP might be bigger than QP (which would mean P!=NP), there may be problems that can still be used for public key encryption even if a big enough functional quantum computer can be made. The only ones I know of are the factorization problem for RSA encryption, and the discrete logarithm problem for the older Diffie Hellman method. Both are in QP. Each of the attempts to make public key encryption from some other NP problem such as bin packing, 3-sat, or traveling salesman, has so far turned out to have some flaw.

      Would be a real shame not to have any way to do public key encryption. Quantum computation breaks RSA and DH. No one knows whether it breaks the idea of public key encryption, However that turns out, the old symmetric key methods will still be safe. So yeah, the possibilities are exciting, just not quite what people think.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    6. Re:Ridiculously overblown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nope, the grandparent post is correct. Most of the encryption proposals for quantum encryption so far have involved only sending a key to be used with a symmetric cypher. The reason is similar to why the same thing is done with PKI: throughput. In PKI it's governed by the high computational costs of PK en/decryption. I'm not sure what the governing factor is in QCrypto, maybe it's due to the device physics needing to limit the density of entangled photon pairs to avoid unwanted interactions, or maybe it's because the key transmission is done by interspersing the key bit photon pairs with others carrying random data and identifying the relevant bits/pairs on a secondary classical channel.

      Currently QC
      a) is only good for point-to-point links. (Photonic switches would likely break the entanglement)
      b) is just exchanging symmetric keys for use on a secondary channel

      Now, even if we develop repeaters that decode and re-encode the symmetric key and perform routing, unless you're willing to trust the phone company's repeaters (the Chinese factory where they will likely be built, the code they are running, the administrators managing them, the physical integrity where the repeaters are located, and the ethics of the company directors preventing industrial espionage on competitors), you're still back to square one. If you need to run point to point lines, then you might as well ship a 200GB drive full of symmetric keys or a striped multi-Terabyte one-time pad. It will be a lot cheaper than running new fiber without the distance limitation and by the time this is necessary, 200GB will probably fit on a USBv4 key).

      On the other hand, the grandparent is incorrect that breaking RSA via Quantum Computing is unrelated. The only reason why you would bother going to this is because you expect that factoring could be done in O(f(n bits)) - where f(n) is less than exponential - with Quantum Computers. I haven't heard any indication that quantum computers could be used to break symmetric cyphers.

    7. Re:Ridiculously overblown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if my understanding is correct, yours isn't!
      From the article:
      One way of sending a quantum-cryptographic key between sender and receiver requires that a laser transmit single photons that are polarized in one of two modes. In the first, photons are positioned vertically or horizontally (rectilinear mode); in the second, they are oriented 45 degrees to the left or right of vertical (diagonal mode). In either mode, the opposing positions of the photons represent either a digital 0 or a 1. The sender, whom cryptographers by convention call Alice, sends a string of bits, choosing randomly to send photons in either the rectilinear or the diagonal modes. The receiver, known as Bob in crypto-speak, makes a similarly random decision about which mode to measure the incoming bits. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle dictates that he can measure the bits in only one mode, not both. Only the bits that Bob measured in the same mode as sent by Alice are guaranteed to be in the correct orientation, thus retaining the proper value. After transmission, Bob then communicates with Alice, an exchange that need not remain secret, to tell her which of the two modes he used to receive each photon. He does not, however, reveal the 0- or 1-bit value represented by each photon. Alice then tells Bob which of the modes were measured correctly. They both ignore photons that were not observed in the right mode. The modes measured correctly constitute the key that serves as an input for an algorithm used to encrypt or decipher a message.
      (I'm simplifying the quote here)
      What this is saying is that the quantum links allow the sending of random bits 'encoded' onto photons between A and B in two modes. Both modes cannot be measured simultaneously (heisenberg uncertainty), and any tampering is also detectable. A chooses the mode in which he sends his bit randomly and B chooses the mode in which he measures the transmitted photon randomly. A and B then communicate to tell each other which modes they used during the transmission, and the bit value of the ones they have in common is used to generate their key.
      So you can see that "quantum cryptography" is not exactly a secure transmission in that you cannot guarantee that the receiver will receive everything that the sender transmits. It is useful as a means of exchanging and agreeing a secret key, which can be used for encryption. (Hence the original poster was correct)

    8. Re:Ridiculously overblown by Karhgath · · Score: 1

      Quantum Key Distribution(stop calling it quantum encryption) is a way to generate a one-time pad on the fly, on a totally secure communication line. Except for a man-in-the-middle attack(which renders ANY computational solutions useless, it's not something that can be solved with computer), you cannot eavesdrop the key exchange. This means you have a OTP without the potential problem of losing your pad or having a pad for every friend you want to talk to(well, you need a quantum link between each of them tho, but "wireless" quantum lines are in the work).

      Since OTP is provably unbreakable, this is not only better than RSA, IT IS the best way to do it.

    9. Re:Ridiculously overblown by eddeye · · Score: 1
      Quantum encryption is not about exchanging keys, its not even encryption in its normal sense. What it really is, is secure trasmission.

      Secure in the sense that eavesdropping is detectable but not (entirely) preventable. It's an authentic channel which detects privacy compromises after the fact. You never want to send real data down such a pipe. It's perfect for key distribution: if you detect eavesdropping, toss the key and send a new one.

      --
      Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
    10. Re:Ridiculously overblown by eddeye · · Score: 2, Insightful
      On the other hand, the grandparent is incorrect that breaking RSA via Quantum Computing is unrelated.

      There is no relation between quantum "encryption" and RSA. Quantum computers are a completely different technology than quantum key distribution. All you need for the latter is fiber optic cable, some photon counters, and polarizing filters. Quantum computers OTOH require quantum circuits, which are no more than lab toys ATM. It could be 50 years before we see sizable quantum computers, if ever.

      Even if QCs do arrive, that doesn't mean quantum key distribution will take off as well. As you said, it will be a whole lot cheaper and just as effective to ship a storage device full of symmetric keys to whoever you're communicating with. RSA and quantum encryption are independent technologies; the downfall of one will not necessarily lead to the rise of the other.

      --
      Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
  24. That's not what the Uncertainty Principle says by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    If someone tries to intercept this stream of photons--call her Eve--she cannot measure both modes, thanks to Heisenberg.

    That's wrong. The Uncertainty Principle merely states that an observer cannot measure both position and momentum with arbitrary precision.

    1. Re:That's not what the Uncertainty Principle says by jericho4.0 · · Score: 4, Informative
      Actually, it's more general than that, and applies to other mesurables (noncommuting observables) of a quantum mechanical system. In this case, spin.

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    2. Re:That's not what the Uncertainty Principle says by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point is that once you measure the photon, its state collapses to what you measured. Collapsed states can be detected by checking the Bell inequality.

    3. Re:That's not what the Uncertainty Principle says by Gil-galad55 · · Score: 1
      A more generalized uncertainty principle would be that, for two observables A and B, the product of the variances of A and B (variance -> uncertainty in general parlance) is greater than or equal to 1/4 of the magnitude squared of the commutator of the operators A and B.

      Thus, any two operators whose commutator does not vanish--position and momentum, e.g., or spin operators along different axes, or energy and time--will give a non-zero result for uncertainty in the measurement of both observables.

      It is true that "Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle" usually refers to position and momentum!

      --

      To follow knowledge like a sinking star, / Beyond the utmost bound of human thought. ("Ulysses", Tennyson)

  25. Slash site about Quantum Information Theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not strictly ontopic, but worth to mention: QubitNews, a slash site on quantum computers and quantum information, is getting some activity lately. Drop by once in a while, if you are interested. You might read some insightful comment from insiders of the field!

  26. Quantum Encryption is Not Encryption by Uhlek · · Score: 4, Informative

    Quantum encryption is a misnomer, it should be called (and is, in some circles) quantum key distribution. It's all about how the key is transmitted, not how the data is secured. The encryption method is independant of how the key is distributed. Contrary to popular belief, it typically cannot be a one-time pad, since the bandwidth on the "key" channel is very limited due to the exact nature of the transmission. It can be, though, a constantly shifting AES key, or other type of data, making the datastream as a whole effectively unbreakable.

    The problem lies in that you have to have a single, unbroken fiber optic connection between the two points, and this fiber optic connection is very limited in the amount of loss that it can withstand. That means you're geographically limited on how far the circuit might be able to travel. You're looking at a few hundred kilometers, at the absolute maximum.

    Considering the amount of money you'd spend on putting the circuit in place versus the amount of money you'd lose if the data was compromised, it's very unlikely that anyone, anywhere will have a practical use for QKD/QE. Government and defense, maybe, but then only in very limited applications.

    There is a chance that, should quantum computing become a reality and modern encryption algorithms can suddenly be cracked very, very easily that this method may see some use, and by no means is development a waste of time and effort. But, QC is still very much in the early stages, if a working system is ever developed at all.

    Thta being said, PKI and courier delivery of key material will continue to be the order of the day for quite some time.

    1. Re:Quantum Encryption is Not Encryption by tftp · · Score: 1
      PKI and courier delivery of key material will continue to be the order of the day for quite some time

      Unless you want to have a completely secure network of computers. Make a grid out of them and you cover the whole country. Every node will have to be as secure as the origin and destination, but likely these will be the nodes themselves, so no harm done. Also it may be possible to use layers of encryption, so that every node to node link carries message encrypted for some other node, and thus no single breach can reveal the message.

      No courier can be as efficient as a country-wide network with near-instantaneous transmission times. Any government, any military would want it.

    2. Re:Quantum Encryption is Not Encryption by m50d · · Score: 1

      We're making progress in QKD through the air though. It doesn't and probably won't have the range for global communications. But it could easily have the range for battlefield ones.

      --
      I am trolling
  27. I don't know if I can make this clear, but I'll by whimsy · · Score: 5, Informative

    give it a shot.

    Particles that are treated best by quantum theory (such as photons, here) exhibit quantum states. Just think of them as metainformation about the particle, which is accurate to a first approximation and appropriate for this explanation. In this case, the light is polarized, which dictates some of its quantum metainformation.

    The Heisenberg principle, which you've probably heard about, says that you cannot know the position and momentum of a particle exactly, simultaneously. You can know one or the other exactly, you can know both with noninfinitesimal error, but you can't know both. For big, heavy things, like macroscopic objects, the uncertainty is so small as to be irrelevant.

    The quantum weirdness which results is as follows: an unobserved object simultaneously exists in a linear combination of multiple quantum states. That is, it exists as

    (x*A+y*B+z*C)/(x+y+z)

    Where A,B,C are quantum states and x,y,z are relative probabilities. If they add to 1, the x+y+z term falls out.

    This is where schrodinger's cat. If you wait exactly long enough that the probability of the cat dying is 50%, the cat is exactly equal parts dead and alive. It's accurate, but I think it's confusing because it confuses the fact that quantum states really only apply to very small things, except in isolated cases like this.

    Where the unbreakability of quantum encryption comes in is the observer. If you open the box, the cat is no longer both, it's just dead or alive. If you look at the photon, it's A,B, or C. You have destroyed the metainformation contained in the photon, because up until when you observed it, it was x parts A, y parts B, and z parts C.

    This is unavoidable and fundamental to quantum mechanics.

    For quantum encryption/communication not to work this way, we have to be wrong about quantum mechanics, and the fact that it's just so WEIRD is part of the reason I suspect it will work. It's so counterintuitive people have verified this many times.

    1. Re:I don't know if I can make this clear, but I'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      An observer does not have to be a sentient being. Anything can be an observer, including, other quantum particles.

      At any given moment, a quantum particle is having its wave equation collapsed by an interaction with another particle. The key to understanding this is that even though the wave has collapsed, it is not really collapsed and will continue to transmit and collapse.

      It is a HUGE misconception that the cat is equally alive or dead, being as those are two fundamentally mutually exclusive properties. At any given point in time, there is a probability that the cat is either alive or dead. The cat interacts with itself (a single quantum particle would not interact with itself and so it cannot collapse its own wave equation) and with the air molecules, box molecules, etc. Whether or not YOU look at the cat or not is irrelevant. The cat interacts with its environment and other particles simply by the means of being.

      Once you stop trying to think that an observer must be a sentient being with intent to measure a particle, you can see that the particle itself is interacting with other particles, each acting as observers of the other.

    2. Re:I don't know if I can make this clear, but I'll by iamnotacrook · · Score: 0
      It is a HUGE misconception that the cat is equally alive or dead, being as those are two fundamentally mutually exclusive properties. At any given point in time, there is a probability that the cat is either alive or dead.

      You have misconceptions of your own. I dont know your background but you haven't grasped why Schrodingers cat says something very different about the quantum world. You are trying to fit it into a classical viewpoint. (or trolling).

    3. Re:I don't know if I can make this clear, but I'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Student of Murray Gell-Mann (sp? I always forget) quite a few years back. Never did finish my post doc in QCD, the money back in 96 to get into computers was way too good to pass up.

      The problem is that everyone wants to turn this cat into a magical cat that is 50% dead. The problem is that the cat is being observed ALL THE TIME. The particles of the cat are "observed" (what a terrible choice of words) by other particles interacting with it. This is why the cat exists at all.

      If you were to try to claim that the cat is 50% dead in the box, I could just as easily claim that it is 50% not even in the box. Until you open the box, you would not know whether or not it was in there.

      But particles are not cats. Cats are made up of particles. Particles interact with each other. When two particles interact, they "observe" each other (for the most part, there are exceptions that are too complicated to go into in such a small space ;-) . So because of this, there is no point at which a particle is in a nether state. It either exists or it doesn't exist. It either has some property or it doesn't have some property.

      The thing that is difficult to understand is that although the particle has been observed, it does not cease to exist until its energy has been transferred to another particle (entropy) and it retains its waveform despite having been "observed".

      When a particle "blinks out", its energy and momentum (and other properties like spin, etc) are preserved such that if the particle "blinks in" again it will retain those properties. However, from the time it blinked out until the time it blinked in, it ceased to exist in our observable universe. This gives rise to the theory that the particle entered another dimension which allows it to retain those properties without having to exist in this dimensional existence. Very heady stuff (or as we sometimes say here at /., "Very space opera")

      So either you can stick with your elementary physics and remain befuddled, by confusing the probability of an event happening with the actual event happening, or you can accept that just because a probability is given does not mean that something must fulfill the percentages of the probability in and of itself.

    4. Re:I don't know if I can make this clear, but I'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > At any given moment, a quantum particle is having its wave equation collapsed by an interaction with another particle.

      As I understand it, no, and that's why any macroscopic object isn't in a quantic (coherent) state. If there is an interaction, then you lose coherence.

    5. Re:I don't know if I can make this clear, but I'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you read on, I also try to make the point that the "observation" caused by the encounter between the particles does not in fact destroy the particle wave.

      You're right, if the particle suddenly ceases to exist because of an observation, i.e. the particle is destroyed in the process of observation, then any interaction among particles that resulted in "observation" (bad choice of words, IMO) would necessarily result in the sudden destruction of all matter instantaneously. However, considering that the wave itself is not necessarily destroyed in the process of observation (other things may happen to it, including energy transfer, destruction, nothing at all, etc) then matter can continue to be matter despite these "observations".

      The thought that it requires an active, sentient observer is akin to religion.

    6. Re:I don't know if I can make this clear, but I'll by iamnotacrook · · Score: 0
      confusing the probability of an event happening with the actual event happening

      Actually, thats where i think you are confused.

      Anyway, this isn't the place for it.

    7. Re:I don't know if I can make this clear, but I'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps 'having a property' is absurd notion (in QM) per se, because it inevitably implies communicating that property (or "measuring" it).

      But, if we consider "property" to be an, at least binary, relation (in some human languages, it is proper (though not obligatory to use that form) to say "You are somewhat tired (or any other property) to me today.", meaning "I perceive (measure?) that today you are tired.", while third person could add "To me, You are not."), we are getting closer to the truth, without confusing our minds with bogus concepts.

      In programming languages paradigm, QM is more LISP than FORTRAN, but nevertheless, we wish to keep using FORTRAN we used in classical and relativistic physics.

    8. Re:I don't know if I can make this clear, but I'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But there's no such thing as "particle wave". It's the wave/particle duality (might not be a goof translation for what I know as "dualité onde / corpuscule" in French).

      You can see it as a particle oscillating along it's path. if some other particle is close enough, you will perturb it's oscillation without "destroying" the particle. however if the particle is absobed (say it crashes into the wall) you have no more oscillation. Things like "energy transfer" are interactions modifying the oscillation, as the energy is the oscillation and conversely.

      I agree, observation might be misleading as observation is interaction.

    9. Re:I don't know if I can make this clear, but I'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      observation might be misleading as observation is interaction

      Bingo. And what I want to impress through my original posts is not that there isn't such a thing as particle/wave duality (what is colloquially termed a particle wave), but rather that the act of observation occurs all the time on particles, sometimes with destructive results (hitting a wall) or without (simple interaction). You covered those quite well with your post, which is much more eloquent than my own.

      I think too many people get hung up on the box and start to believe in some mysterious power that only "observers" (which they take to be sentient beings) hold. Then you end up with ridiculous theories like the moon only existing when someone is looking at it, or that there is some psychic power that is being transmitted that causes the observation to have a destructive effect.

    10. Re:I don't know if I can make this clear, but I'll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, we agree.

      I didn't catch the meaning of your original post.

      I thought you were assuming that Eve wouldn't change a lot in the communication because there were interactions everywhere in the channel.

      However it's quite the opposite, any interaction would alter the signal even it's not a sentient being.

  28. FUNNY not OT by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

    Even though the T in tits stands for Ternary, modding the parent OT displays a humourless soul.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  29. Test, please ignore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    test please ignore

  30. Could it break the "unbreakable" method? by Call+Me+Black+Cloud · · Score: 1


    In my job as a contractor for a government agency, I've had the opportunity to read a lot about the history of crytopgrahy and code breaking. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that one time pads are unbreakable (when properly created and handled). Does quantum computing affect this unbreakability?

    1. Re:Could it break the "unbreakable" method? by timbos · · Score: 1

      I don't think so. A quantum computer would, provided that I understand it all correctly, produce an (in)finite number of possible solutions.
      Of course, the correct solution is in there somewhere, but how do you find out what it is?

    2. Re:Could it break the "unbreakable" method? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No

      A quantum computer is still just a Turing machine, it can't do anything another Turing machine can't do. And a turing-machine can't crack OTPs.

    3. Re:Could it break the "unbreakable" method? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. One time pads, when used with true random data are unbreakable.

      By using a brute force attack on the otp, you simply cannot determine if the decryption is valid.

    4. Re:Could it break the "unbreakable" method? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A quantum computer is not a Turing machine.

    5. Re:Could it break the "unbreakable" method? by shadowmas · · Score: 1

      AFAIK the only way OTP can be broken is by finding the random data set. no amount of work on the cipher text can break the encryption. so there is only one kind of "technology" that can break OTP encryption. thats ESP ;-). but i dont think we have to worry about this much ;).

    6. Re:Could it break the "unbreakable" method? by m50d · · Score: 1

      No. But it can break anything based on the discrete logarithm problem or the factorisation of large numbers (which means RSA and most public-key stuff in use today), as well as any block cipher with a reasonably big bit of ciphertext (as it lets you check all possible keys very quickly).

      --
      I am trolling
    7. Re:Could it break the "unbreakable" method? by djfray · · Score: 1

      The problem with one time pads, and all similar encryption methods is key exchange. In keeping the key secret, you can only keep the data as secret or less secret. If you have perfect security by which you can exchange keys, then you have eliminated the need for encryption, and can just use this method with your plain message.

      --
      This sig is o Unfunny o Funny
    8. Re:Could it break the "unbreakable" method? by zzlevo · · Score: 1

      No. True one time pads are informational theoretically secure. If you don't know the key, any given ciphertext can "decrypt" into any plaintext of the same length and it's not possible to determine which is correct. For this to be true the OTP must have been generated from true randomness - not a PRNG or stream cipher which is sometimes advertised as OTP.

      Note that there are attacks against OTP such as bit-flipping attacks, traffic analysis, mounting a camera pointing to the screen, rubber hose cryptanalysis etc. An OTP is only provably secure if the adversary only has the ciphertext but nothing else.

      Quantum computing can theoretically be used to break stuff like RSA by implementing Shor's algorithm. It would require much more powerful quantum computers than we have today though. I doubt that we'll see powerful enough quantum computers this century if at all.
      It is of course theoretically possible to factor large numbers with conventional computers, it'd just take a long, long, long, long time or you'd have to be extremely lucky.

      I haven't kept up to date with this field lately, but I believe it's still not known whether it will be possible for a quantum computer to break symmetrical ciphers. It's theoretically possible to break them (with or without quantum computers) as long as the encrypted message is longer than the unicity distance; an often misunderstood concept that's defined in Claude E. Shannon's A Mathematical Theory of Communication from 1948.

      Quantum encryption - which is really quantum key exchange - can be used to exchange an OTP. This would create an unbreakable cipher if you define "unbreakable" to mean "cannot be deciphered." It may still be possible to mount bit-flipping attacks etc. Quantum encryption is not very practical today though, and it's only useful in very few situations. It's interesting research which perhaps may someday result in more practical applications.

  31. Why fix what isn't broken? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    rot26 encryption works just fine for me.

  32. basic principles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    simply, quantum computers dont work on the same principles as our relatively childish PC's. Only the most rudimentary Q/C's exist, or to be more specific, only the most rudimentary quantum processors exist, and thats only in cutting edge labs ala IBM and some very cashed up universities (under extreme temp/pressure/material conditions). so in other words, by the time theses things are available commercialy, 50+ years at best, the quantum entanglement solution to encyption, the infallible solution (excluding an 'insider') may well be viable to use in a Q/C network.

  33. So SMoking Gnu are ahead in optical cracking? by tod_miller · · Score: 1

    Referencing going postal, the semaphor towers would be the 'optical fibre' in discworld they erect a canvas sheeting to block the LOS between two towers, and:

    a) send a sequence of messages to jam the machanics (a 'woodpecker' ala a buffer overflow worm)
    b) send a creepy posthumous message

    I am sure after they spend loads on quantum cryptography, and tell all theit employees that QUANTUM is protecting them, it will be easier than ever to call up and ask for the email they just received over quantum to be faxed to your office, because your 'damned' quantum line is down again.

    Oh I forgot: ----spoiler warning----

    --
    #hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
    1. Re:So SMoking Gnu are ahead in optical cracking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry--your post was so shitty and incoherent that there's no way it could spoil anything for anybody, other than the 30 seconds I wasted trying to decipher it. Better fanboys please!

  34. Right On Time! by Vo0k · · Score: 1

    Finally we can start research stating that P=NP without worry that our discovery would empty our accounts.

    --
    Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
    1. Re:Right On Time! by BlaisorBlade · · Score: 1

      I'd think that if you discover that P=NP, you'd also see that actually the Polinomial algorithm can be slower than the Exponential one for the same problem...

      The fact that in real life P is better than NP is just an accident... When the order of the P algorithm will become 1000, we'll lose. And if P=NP, that will probably happen.

      I'm not talking abstractly, for a long time this was the situation for Linear Programming...

      The Simplex algorithm (an Exp. one) was faster than the existing Polinomial Algorithm in the average case...

      Actually a Polinomial algorithm faster than the Simplex Alg. has been discovered, after some years... though I think it was too complex and so, often, the Simplex is preferred.

  35. Q/C is a term (hopefully) 'coined' by distantbody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    remeber folks, 99% of ALL quantum computer talk you hear is THEORY and not fact, let alone proven. :(

  36. I Think It's Just Key Distribution Being Protected by wwind123 · · Score: 1

    Not the content of the actual encrypted message. Distributing the encryption keys in this way guarantees that whenever a bit in the key is intercepted by an eavesdropper, the sender/receiver would detect it so that could abandon this bit. Then the receiver uses the key to encrypt the actual message and sends it on an open chanel, which is still interceptable by an eavesdropper, but as long as the encryption is One-Time Pads encryption and the previous key generation uses a true random source, crypt-analysis againsted the ciphertext would be impossible.

  37. Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by tonywestonuk · · Score: 5, Informative

    Alice sends Bob a stream of photons. Each photon that is sent, Alice encodes a state of '1' or '0' on each photon.

    Unfortunately, Due to Quantum Mechanics, Bob only has a 50% chance of actually reading the state of the photon. 50% of the time he gets '0' or '1', and 50% of the time he gets 'Unknown', and the photon is destroyed..
    This is ok, because after receiving 1 million bits, Bob phones up Alice on an unsecured line and says I managed to read photon numbers 5,6,9,12,13,16....(+ approx 500,000 more), so I will use the state of these photons as a one time pad. Alice looks up the states she sent these photons, and now both parties have a one time pad to encrypt data.

    Now, lets say there was an intruder attempting to intercept the key exchange. The intruder is also constrained QM, and can only read 50% of the photons, with the other 50% Destroyed. Because, the 50% of photons the intruder would receive, would be different to the 50% bob had read, it is impossible for the hacker to use the information sent using by bob to Alice, via the unsecured phone call, to build an equivalent one time pad.

    Also, as the intruder is only able to forward a exact copy of just 50% of the photons to Bob, with the other 50%, now destroyed. He could replace this 50% of photons with his own set of random state photons, but this will be detected by Bob and Alice, as the one time pads would be different on this 50%, and the transmitted data using the pads would be corrupted.

    1. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by ysachlandil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that when Bob talks to Alice, Alice happens to be Eve. Oops! And since there isn't any quantum authentication yet, the quantum crypto adds precisely nothing! (since security is only as strong as it's weakest link).

      I've said it a million times, and I guess I have to say a million times more: Quantum crypto doesn't protect against an active Monkey-in-the-middle attack! And thus it is not the perfect uncrackable holy grail everybody is so hyped up about.

      Nothing to see here, move along...
      --Blerik

    2. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by zmollusc · · Score: 1

      Doh! Eve would have to impersonate both Alice and Bob for every data transaction on every channel. Any channel that Eve cannot sit in the middle of will reveal that eve is in the middle of the quantum channel. Bob encrypts a message and sends it to Alice. What does Eve do? She can't read the message because Bob hasn't sent the key yet. Either she forwards it to Alice or she 'loses' it. Later, Bob sends the key for the message, now she reads the message "here are my quantum settings, Alice, do they check out?". Does she forward the key and let Alice figure out the quantum channel is compromised? Or 'lose' this too? Lost messages mean there is someone tampering, so Eve must pretend to BE Alice rather than just tapping into Alice's comms. This is much easier to detect.

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
    3. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by ozbird · · Score: 1

      Alice sends Bob a stream of photons.

      Soon after, Alice gets arrested by the FBI.

    4. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by ysachlandil · · Score: 1

      >Doh! Eve would have to impersonate both Alice and Bob for every data transaction on every channel.

      That is a given for active MITM... And usually cryptographers analyze just the one channel, after that the rest is just more of the same.

      >Any channel that Eve cannot sit in the middle of will reveal that eve is in the middle of the quantum channel.

      Since there is no quantum authentication yet, how will anybody know who anybody else is? And if you use non-quantum authentication, you will weaken the protocol to non-quantum level, might as well drop the quantum crypto then!

      >Bob encrypts a message and sends it to Alice. What does Eve do? She can't read the message because Bob hasn't sent the key yet. Either she forwards it to Alice or she 'loses' it.

      Or she keeps it until she gets the key...

      >Later, Bob sends the key for the message, now she reads the message "here are my quantum settings, Alice, do they check out?". Does she forward the key and let Alice figure out the quantum channel is compromised?

      No, she makes a shiny new message for Alice, with her own 'quantum settings' and her own key, and Alice will be none the wiser because she cannot see the difference between Bob and Eve (no authentication, remember...)

      >Or 'lose' this too? Lost messages mean there is someone tampering, so Eve must pretend to BE Alice rather than just tapping into Alice's comms. This is much easier to detect.

      No messages lost, Bob and Alice are both fooled...
      And pretending to BE Alice is quite easy when there is no authentication, there is nothing to detect!

      --Blerik

    5. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by zmollusc · · Score: 1

      Okay, so Eve archives all encrypted stuff from either party until a key is received so that the contents can be acted upon. This means that the man in the middle has to create and support a convincing charade for each party while Bob and Alice have diverting 'realities'. The key might not be sent for weeks. Until the key is sent, Bob must be convinced that the message arrived because this is supposed to be a secure channel. Both parties must be reassured about any timing errors introduced by Eve's holding of messages.

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
    6. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by ysachlandil · · Score: 1

      The key might not be send for weeks... what protocol are we talking about here?

      And how is Bob going to be convinced the message arrived? Is Alice supposed to tell him that? All Alice can tell Bob is that a message arrived, from somebody, and she cannot tell Bob more, unless he sends the key. And then Bob knows that somebody claims to have received a message from somebody (she calls herself Alice, but it could be anyone). So both Bob and Alice don't know anything anyways. Eve can always make up a message from Alice saying "I recieved your message #MSGNUM#, the hash is ###". But it is meaningless without authentication.

      This is because crypto is meaningless without authentication. And until there is some form of quantum authentication, this means quantum crypto will always have to stoop to a lower level of security by using normal computationally protected authentication schemes like RSA. And then that will be the weak spot.

      --Blerik

    7. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by zmollusc · · Score: 1

      Look, Eve can neither forward nor forge encoded messages without causing a discrepancy between the messages Bob and Alice send each other. Hence Eve cannot TRANSPARENTLY sit in the middle of the quantum link. The authentication is a red herring since this is a point to point system. Bob can send instructions to Alice that depend upon timing of message receipt. Eve must generate what she thinks Alice would have responded if she had got the messages.
      Instead of the man in the middle reading the communications you have a man in the middle generating communications to two parties.

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
    8. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by jkleid · · Score: 1

      "Unfortunately, Due to Quantum Mechanics, Bob only has a 50% chance of actually reading the state of the photon. 50% of the time he gets '0' or '1', and 50% of the time he gets 'Unknown', and the photon is destroyed.."

      Not true. While there may be limitations in his measuring apparatus, there is no theoretical reason why he could not successfully read 100% of the photons.

      "This is ok, because after receiving 1 million bits, Bob phones up Alice on an unsecured line and says I managed to read photon numbers 5,6,9,12,13,16....(+ approx 500,000 more), so I will use the state of these photons as a one time pad. Alice looks up the states she sent these photons, and now both parties have a one time pad to encrypt data."

      Not quite. Both Alice and Bob, over an unsecured line, tell each other the computational basis they used to measure each photon. They will keep the bit values that occurred when they used the same basis, and throw out all the others.

      There are other variations of the scheme, but they all use the idea of changing basis states to evade eavesdroppers. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_cryptography )

    9. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by FryGuy1013 · · Score: 1

      It would only take a single phone call and reading off a subsequence of the bits over it to break the MITM attack. If Alice and Bob know each other's voice, then this would truly be "unbreakable" encryption. No more unbreakable than a one-time pad burned onto a dvd disk though.

      --
      bananas like monkeys.
    10. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by tonywestonuk · · Score: 1

      Not true. While there may be limitations in his measuring apparatus, there is no theoretical reason why he could not successfully read 100% of the photons.

      Check your Quantum Physics!... If bob could successfully read the polerizations of all photons, then So could 'Eve', and therfore create an identicle photon stream to bob, and bob would know none the wiser... Quantum encryption depends on the fact that only 50% of the polorizations can be read.

    11. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by jkleid · · Score: 1

      Check your Quantum Physics!... If bob could successfully read the polerizations of all photons, then So could 'Eve', and therfore create an identicle photon stream to bob, and bob would know none the wiser

      Again, not true. You're missing a huge point: it's a bit difficult to grasp for those new to the subject, but it's central to this whole scheme. And that is, what matters here is basis states. Bob can read every qubit, and come up with a 1 or 0 each time, but to do so, he must choose some basis for measurement. He might choose a different basis than Alice, but that's okay because they can compare basis states, and keep the measurements where their basis agrees. When Eve performed her measurements, she would have chosen a different basis much of the time, and would therefore corrupt the results for Bob. When Alice and Bob compare random bits for which their basis is the same, they would discover disagreements, which would expose the presence of Eve.

      Instead of blindly disagreeing with this again, read up on it first.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_cryptograph y

    12. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by tonywestonuk · · Score: 1

      I Have read up on it....

      The photon sent by Alice is 'Encoded' with a '0' by been polarized by either 0 or 45 Degrees (Alice would ensure that this choice is made at random), or a '1' by been polarized by 90 or 135 Degrees (Also, at random).

      When a photon arrives with Bob, Bob can either test for the polarization been 0 or 90 degrees, or 45 and 135 degrees..... But, (and this is the the crucial point), not both..Bob either tests for 0/90 or 45/135 degree at random. If the photon initially left Alice with 0 or 90 degree polarization, and Bob tested for 45/135 degree polarization then the photon would be 'forced' into adopting either a 45, or 135 degree polarization, and the initial polarization would be lost....- there can be no second chance at testing. When Alice and Bob negotiate later on, they can determine these are the bits to ignore.

      The point I'm trying to say, it is impossible to determine the polarization of a photon to be one of 0,45,90 or 135 degrees in one go..... If it was, then Eve could hack the communication. Only 0/90 degrees, OR 45/135 degrees.... Not both.

      I accept your correction for the other point - Alice and Bob would have to negotiate with each other to find out which bit's were 'Lost' rather than Bob would informing Alice of the photons he was able to read. Bob wouldn't be able to tell if the '0' or '1' received was an 'error' or not, without determining that Alice was transmitting in the same 'basis states' as he was receiving.

    13. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by tonywestonuk · · Score: 1

      By you're website link, I guess you're much better at QM then I am. So I presume I'm not thinking QM Enough..... So I shall ask you this.

      If it is how you say, then What is the Polerisation of the photon, if it leaves Alice with Polerisation of 0 Degrees. Is it 0 Degrees (ie, 100% certain it is 0 Degrees) or, does it become a qbit with a varying percentage probablility it could be polerized to anything other than 90%?....If the latter, what made the photon go from a 'certain' state, to a quantum state?

    14. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by ysachlandil · · Score: 1

      Only if the protocol is not transparent... like your protocol. Come on, who sends a message first, then maybe a week later the key? Why send the message so soon then, nobody can do anything with it. I remember 1 protocol like that and it's not even serious (very secure though...).

      And why is the authentication a red herring?
      What if the point to point link happens to be a fiber of 150km long (The longest experimental link up to now). Are you going to post sentries along the fiber to make sure nobody is tampering with it? Might as well put the message in a bottle and shoot it through the duct with air-pressure.

      Anyways, this is going nowhere... You are a believer in QC and I'm not. QED

      --Blerik

    15. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by zmollusc · · Score: 1

      I'm not a believer, I just don't agree with you :-) It is going nowhere, but thanks for the discussion bye

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
    16. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by jkleid · · Score: 1

      "I Have read up on it....[...] The point I'm trying to say, it is impossible to determine the polarization of a photon to be one of 0,45,90 or 135 degrees in one go"

      Yep, that all seems pretty accurate to me. The thing I was trying to get across was that Bob always gets some answer (1 or 0) after his measurement, although it could be wrong answer if he chose the wrong basis, as you just pointed out.

    17. Re:Easy explination of Quantum Encryption.... by jkleid · · Score: 1

      "If it is how you say, then What is the Polerisation of the photon, if it leaves Alice with Polerisation of 0 Degrees. Is it 0 Degrees (ie, 100% certain it is 0 Degrees) or, does it become a qbit with a varying percentage probablility it could be polerized to anything other than 90%?....If the latter, what made the photon go from a 'certain' state, to a quantum state?"

      A photon is always in a quantum state (i.e. can always be thought of as a qubit), since it's a quantum particle by definition.

      When manipulating a photon, it is possible to polarize it any way you choose...from 0 to 359.999 degrees and everything in between. But when it comes to measuring photons, you have to make a choice...you can only measure with respect to a certain basis, (A basis can be thought of as a pair of mutually exclusive polarizations)

      When Alice polarizes a photon at 0 degrees, for example, Bob could choose any basis he wants to measure the photon. With respect to the 0/90 basis, that photon would indeed be 0, 100% of the time. But if he chose the 1/91 basis, then he will measure 0 98.9% of the time. If he uses the 10/100 basis, he will measure a 0 88.8% of the time. If he use the 45/135 basis, he will get 0 50% of the time...in other words, complete ignorance of the original polarization, as intended by Alice.

      In quantum key exchange, it ends there...the photon will be destroyed by Bob's measurement. But it doesn't have to be, the photon could in principle live on. And after Bob uses the 45/135 basis to measure it, the photon will now be in one state of the new basis, i.e. it will acquire a polarization of 45 or 135. If someone measures it again but in the 0/90 basis, they will get 0 (or 1) 50% of the time...measuring always resets the photon with regard to the new basis (unless it destroys it).

      Where things really start to get weird is with superposition...something explored in Bell's Inequality.

  38. Fiberoptic communication by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...has always been notable as hard to tap on. I fail to see much sense in extending protection on network part that is not likely to be attacked and leaks zero emission to sniff. How do you apply quantum encription on any given communication channel? How do you QE commands over MW link to a satelite?

    1. Re:Fiberoptic communication by OzRoy · · Score: 0
      Actually it isn't that hard.

      A friend of mine from the army told me that all you had to do was shave off the plastic protected coating and very carefully bend the fiber slightly. Small amounts of the data will then "leak" out of the sides, like a reflection off the top of a pond.

    2. Re:Fiberoptic communication by fbartho · · Score: 1

      Its not that easy... the system described above is set up to send single photons (or nothing) through the fiberoptic cable... bleeding photons out would just intercept the signal, and those bits would be invalidated from being used in the key.

      --
      Gravity Sucks
    3. Re:Fiberoptic communication by TheLink · · Score: 1

      yeah, but if the sender doesn't realize it in time and/or doesn't have appropriate countermeasures, you might get enough of a message.

      --
    4. Re:Fiberoptic communication by fbartho · · Score: 1

      but see what you don't realize is that what passes in the fiberoptic cable is the encryption key... so the bits you would get would never be a part of the final key... the bleeding would just introduce some more zero's and as described in the article, the system is based off the bits that are recieved... the reciever of the signal (over fiberoptic) tells the sender which bits it recieved, they do some checking on some of those bits to make sure they recieved what they were supposed to, but if the recipient doesn't get certain bits (the ones that bled out), its not a big deal. They just don't use those as part of the key... You can capture all the message, if you hack the internet communication, but the point is that it will be encrypted using a big key that was sent via fiberoptic, and you would have no idea what the key was, other than the fact that whatever number bit you caught will NOT have been used in the making of the key.

      --
      Gravity Sucks
    5. Re:Fiberoptic communication by OzRoy · · Score: 1

      In this case I'm not talking about quantum encryption. The parent believed it was almost impossible to read a signal on a fibre optic cable so there is no point in having quantum encryption.

    6. Re:Fiberoptic communication by fbartho · · Score: 1

      mea culpa, My Apologies to you.:)

      --
      Gravity Sucks
  39. Re:Q/C is a term (hopefully) 'coined' by distantbo by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

    Actually, all of the quantum principles quantum computing is based on are actually experimentally proven. Indeed, quantum computers have been built, except that they are currently restricted to a few qubits. A factorization of 15 with Shor's algorithm has already succeeded.

    An unsolved problem, however, is how to build larger quantum computers. Maybe it's impossible in practice to get more than a few individually controllable qubits sufficiently protected from the environment. But that's quite a different statement than the one you made.

    Well, probably you just tried to troll anyway.

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  40. Lazy? by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

    Why do you assume the GP post is lazy. Perhaps they agree with Albert, I know I do. Mathematics can model reality extremely well. I think it breaks down when our Gravity Model says there can be an infinitely large mass in an infinitely small space. I also think QM breaks down with "spooky action".

    Because I think that, I also think research (particularly emprical reseach) into black holes and entanglement is a "good thing" regardless of it's potential value. Albert (who like slashdotters could not understand the US patent office) started his ponderings because someone else discovered that the speed of light is constant, so he plugged it into Issac's maths and thunk fer awhile. Issac is said to have gained insperation from an apple but it is more likley it was from Kepler, Galileo, Copernicus,(Issac despised giving credit),... It may just be that we need another Issac to discover a branch of mathematics that will resolve these issues. Perhaps if we resolve it we will be able to talk to all our other multiverse selves who already know we haven't worked it out yet.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    1. Re:Lazy? by OzRoy · · Score: 1
      I don't really understand your post. Albert Einstein made the "Spooky Action" thought experiment to show how ludicrous the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle is. He didn't believe it.

      However, the experiment has since been done, and the uncertainty principle still holds. The "Spooky Action" is an observable event.

      Now I don't understand exactly how, but they said that they can use this to create quantum relays in the transmission of the message.

    2. Re:Lazy? by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "He didn't believe it." - Neither do I.

      However I do belive that the H.U.P. is real in that you can not know all the properties of a particle for any one instant. Eg: You may measure it's speed but the act of measuring it's speed has interfered with the other properties thus destroying any attempt to measure all properties at once. The complicated maths comes in by assigning a probability distribution to the properties.

      What I don't (even theoretically) agree with is entaglement enabling instantaneous communication regadless of the distance between the entangled particles and I'm not impressed by live/dead cats either. They may be observing something but I don't belive the explanation via "entaglement" can be accepted as anything more than bleeding edge research at the moment.

      As QM stands now "quantum relays" are theoretically impossible since a relay must measure the signal. QM says that if you measure the signal it will collapse. You are then unable to recreate it so cannot possibly relay it to anywhere at anytime. TFA even explains this fact thereby making the other statement -"hope to develop quantum relays"- look kinda silly.

      The ancient Greeks had a mathematical model to predict the motion of the sun, moon and planets based on "wheels within wheels". It was very accurate and also completely wrong in it's physical description. Because it was so accurate it was used for over 1500yrs. I don't see why 20th Century physics should not be susceptible to the same problems even though they are at a much more fundemental level of nature.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    3. Re:Lazy? by OzRoy · · Score: 1

      It doesn't provide instantaneous communication. What it does is instantaneously change another particle. You cannot believe H.U.P is real, and not believe in the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Paradox. That is a contradiction.

      The maths and the observations made by the ancient greeks is not incorrect. It is all still perfectly valid and still perfectly observable. All we did was expand their theory and add a new expanation as to WHY it happens that way.

    4. Re:Lazy? by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "expand their theory and add a new expanation as to WHY (how) it happens that way" - Yep, we need another Kepler/Newton duet and some more emprical data on spookyness and infinities!

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  41. The big question.... by yo303 · · Score: 3, Funny
    The sender, Alice, sends a string of bits, choosing randomly to send photons in either the rectilinear or the diagonal modes. The receiver, Bob , makes a similarly random decision about which mode to measure the incoming bits. If Eve tries to intercept this stream of photons she cannot measure both modes, thanks to Heisenberg.

    So the big question is: Why does Alice have so many secrets? Why does she feel compelled to tell Bob everything? And what is up with Eve, always budding in?

    Personally I think there's something going on between Eve and Bob, that they're not telling us. But damned if I can't break their code.

    yo.

    1. Re:The big question.... by Ripley · · Score: 1
      So the big question is: Why does Alice have so many secrets? Why does she feel compelled to tell Bob everything?

      The "Alice and Bob after-dinner speech" (http://www.conceptlabs.co.uk/alicebob.html) asks the same question and goes into a great deal of analysis.

      <spoiler>
      The conclusion is: "Against all odds, over a noisy telephone line, tapped by the tax authorities and the secret police, Alice will happily attempt, with someone she doesn't trust, whom she cannot hear clearly, and who is probably someone else, to fiddle her tax returns and to organise a coup d'etat, while at the same time minimising the cost of the phone call.

      A coding theorist is someone who doesn't think Alice is crazy."
      </spoiler>

  42. Pure Random Numbers by Wise+Dragon · · Score: 1

    I've known about id Quantique for a while, and have no relationship with them other than I think they rock. One of the more interesting things they sell is Quantum Random Number Generators. These babies work by sending a stream of photons at a half-silvered mirror. Each photon will be either transmitted or reflected, though it is impossible to tell which beforehand. A single photon detector on the other side of the mirror turns the reflection/transmission event into a bit. This bit is PURELY RANDOM. This is one of the *few* ways to get purely random numbers.

    If you encrypt a message with a purely random OTP, it is *impossible* to decipher without that pad. As opposed to mixing functions based on entrpic randomness which are merely insanely complicated to decipher. Freaking cool. Here's a url. http://www.idquantique.com/qrng.html

  43. Hello Slartibartfast by anandsr · · Score: 1

    Have been looking for you a long time.
    I have a new project for you.

    1. Re:Hello Slartibartfast by djupedal · · Score: 1

      Bah! No one appreciates my work! Those stupid planet builders...what do they know?

      New project you say... Can I bring my friends? Will I be famous? You seem friendly - come over here and let me show you my latest...quite nice, I think.

  44. Software emulation of quantum computing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What I want to know is why we can't just make a quantum computer in software, if we understand th e principle behind it.

    I mean, people seem to be suggesting that quantum computers can do new kinds of logic operations and things. So why can't we just code a virtual CPU that has the right registers, and acts the way a quantum computer would?

    Is it all about speed?

    1. Re:Software emulation of quantum computing? by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      Because you'd be simulating a process that would require more cpu power than simply brute forcing the problem would use.
      As poster above explained, it would take as long as doing it the hard way with a regular computer PLUS the overhead of the simulation.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    2. Re:Software emulation of quantum computing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I thought speed would be an issue. But the rest of it doesn't seem to make sense, unless the only advantage of quantum computing is speed. From what I've read people seem to be suggesting that quantum computers allow CPU instructions that aren't possible with traditional techniques?

    3. Re:Software emulation of quantum computing? by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      Yeah you could say it's a speed issue.
      one way to look at it is that you <I> could simulate a 16 processor computer on a 1 processor computer, but it would take 16 times as long plus the overhead. Assuming that the single processor computer is running the same processor as the 16 processor computer is using 16 of.
      A quantum computer is sorta running all possible keys at ONCE, to simulate this a transistor computer would have to simulate each quantum state iserially, effectively trying each key one after the other while maintaining the overhead of pretenting to be a quantum computer. Whereas normal brute forceing is just trying each key one after the other.
      You should always be able to brute force the key faster than simulating a quantum computer trying all of them.
      And modern ciphers such as des and aes rely on brute forcing the keys taking WAY to long to be pratical.
      Though what's practical depends on how long your willing to wait for an answer and how much $$ (hardware) your willing to throw at it. If some scientist had come up with a universal cure for cancer that also extended quality life-span to 200+ years and proved it, but fell off a cliff without explaining it and the only copy of how it worked was locked behind encryption I'm quite shure putting a few billion dollars of computer power on the task 24/7 for a decade would be considered quite pratical. The e-mail of joe blow admitting he stole a few hundreed dollars while working at McDonalds however is probably not practicle to do more than check if it's rot-13 'encrypted or not'.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
  45. Re:my 2 cents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    who are you talking about? and waht do you mean?

  46. Okay, so? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shor's factorization algorithm has a higher degree running time than legitimate encryption and decryption. So you might have to use 1,000,000 bit keys and spend a minute calculating, but the poor bastard of a quantum computer has to compute for a year to break your code.

    1. Re:Okay, so? by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Still, a quantum computer turns crypto back into an arms race again.

      Back in the days of enigma and such, when one side upped its computer technology, the other side added a wheel to its cipher machines. That would last a few years and then everybody is upgrading again.

      RSA has been around since the 70's, and has remained stable the whole time. It made crypto practical to use, and ended the arms race by making crypto hundreds of orders of magnitude harder to crack. Ditto for modern symmetric ciphers, which aren't prone to cracking by quantum computers, but which are less practical to use.

      If quantum computers come out, then RSA is basically dead. Sure, you'll be able to use 1 million bits, for a few years, until somebody adds a few more qbits to their machines and improves their implementation. It could potentially lower the utility of crypto in general unless you're protecting a secret for only a few years.

  47. Why? by The+Grey+Clone · · Score: 0

    Okay, so I didn't RTFA. But, even with something that can break a 50-Million Bit Key, what if I'm writing it in my own language? Are computer's able to handle that?

    I mean, assuming I'm recording something important enough to me that I wouldn't want anyone to ever see it and I'm encrypting it this much, why not just go the extra step and create Clonish, or Cowboy Bobish? I mean, I'm stuck using the characters provided to me on my keyboard, but I could make up my own fontset, and I'm no Grammar Nazi, as shown by this huge run-on sentence, so I don't need anything like semicolons, dollar signs, et cetera. Couldn't I just create, say, a 32 character alphabet and pretty much screw the NSA over?

    1. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      are you talking about adding a second layer of ecryption, such as a "secret code"?

    2. Re:Why? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Of course this is also just a form of encryption where you have to exchange codes first (both the sender and the receiver must know that language, that is, they must memorize the code. Or of course they could have a grammar book/dictionary (i.e. a written-down version of the code) for that. Which then has the disadvantage that an unauthorized third party may get it.

      And it's a code which is hard to change. Say one of the group changes sides, then your whole investment in that code (creating a complete language, and then both sender and receiver having learn it) is immediatly completely worthless.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    3. Re:Why? by OzRoy · · Score: 1
      Because these sorts of codes can be broken. They are almost always basis in a known language and can eventually be translated.

      This sort of encryption was used a lot in World War 1 where they would take words and phrases and replace them with other words. For example a single word "keyboard" may mean "Arial attack". These sorts of codes were broken. Usually by people good at crosswords.

      A more famous case of decrypting this sort of cypher is Egyptian Hyroglyphics. Sure they were never ment to be a code but since knowledge of how to read it was lost it became one.

    4. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An even better example would be the translation of Linear B; a dead languange with 89 characters that mostly represented phonetic values; and no rosseta stone to use as a reference. They eventually cracked it by guessing that certain repreated sequences were the names of major cities. This gave them some of the charater values, and from this they were able to determ that this language was related to an early form of greek. This gave them enough of a base to decypher the rest of Linear B.

      Plus, using your own language is essentially using the same key over and over again, a very bad practice if you want your messages to remain secure.

    5. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Arial attack? I guess those Swiss typefaces weren't as neutral as they pretended to be!

  48. Two things... by Kjella · · Score: 1

    1. Not all current public/private key schemes rely on factorization. RSA does though, as does DSA I think. But not ECC at least, I don't know so many other.

    2. To implement Shor's algorithm, quantum computers have to scale. I don't know how it works but it couldn't possibly check more than 2^n keys at once, where n is the number of qubits.

    Naturally if n is large, any key can be cracked. But I doubt that quantum effects scale well. So far it's been about a dozen qubits, and well... 2^12 at once is impressive. But compared to a 1024 bit RSA key (which has somewhere around 2^128 valid keys), you'd have to do 2^112 iterations.

    I've seen a couple theoretical suggestions about how you could build a lattice grid using nanotechnology to allow it to scale, but it is all extremely theoretical. With any of the current methods of quantum computers, the noise would drown any quantum effects long before they gor to encryption-cracking scales.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Two things... by fatphil · · Score: 1

      """
      But compared to a 1024 bit RSA key (which has somewhere around 2^128 valid keys), you'd have to do 2^112 iterations.
      """

      Erm. in 1024-bit RSA, then you may have as many as 2^1023 valid keys. (As if {p,q}~=2^512, then phi(pq)~=2^1024, and almost all {d,e}<phi(pq) are coprime to phi(pq) (so only even numbers are guaranteed to be excluded, hence the division by 2)

      FP.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    2. Re:Two things... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DSA does not. It has a known period, P-1, and as this is what shorr's algorithim tells you, it is useless. ELGammal does not. Diffie-Hellman does not. SRP does not. RSA is in a minority. And we are not even counting elliptic curves, or any unpopular methods.

  49. Unauthenticated key exchange by mattpalmer1086 · · Score: 1

    The problem with Quantum key exchange is that it's unauthenticated. Since you don't know who's on the other end, you're vulnerable to a man-in-the-middle attach. Someone could be tapping into the line.

    So you authenticate using standard public key techniques, making the whole shebang not much more secure than the (non-quantum) authentication mechanism you use. But vastly more expensive.

    1. Re:Unauthenticated key exchange by condensate · · Score: 1

      Actually, every code is screwed if you know nothing about the other side. That's what the article states. There is nothing to prevent you from betrayal. Deal with it. But once you agreed with an authenticated person (say you talk to her via a normal phone line), it is impossible for Eve to tap in without being noticed, because of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Once you agreed to a one-time pad cipher, every single photon you detect that is not measured correctly is sure to having been corrupted by someone else, again because of fundamental laws of quantum mechanics.

      --
      Black holes were created when god tried to divide by zero
    2. Re:Unauthenticated key exchange by mattpalmer1086 · · Score: 1

      Which is the whole point. All the key exchange does is to exchange a key securely with *someone*. So the scheme is only as secure as your tradititional authentication method.

      In any case, there are perfectly good ways of securely exchanging keys without Quantum cryptography right now, e.g. Diffie-Hellman. So the question is, why bother with all this stuff to exchange a key? In the absence of a working quantum computer to crack factorisations, the only thing it provides above other key exchange methods is a test to see if anyone is eavesdropping on the key exchange.

      While this is an interesting research area that may have applications if a huge quantum computer were built, what possible commercial use can this have now?

    3. Re:Unauthenticated key exchange by Karhgath · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but you exchange a key that can (and will) be broken when large integer factorization is going to be easier to compute.

      With quantum key distribution, you not only exchange a key securely, you generate a one-time pad algorithm on the fly, which is the most secure way of encrypting data, being provably unbreakable.

    4. Re:Unauthenticated key exchange by mattpalmer1086 · · Score: 1

      It's true that one time pads are provably unbreakable, with the slight disadvantage that you need as much high quality random key material as message, and you can only use this material once, or you blow the whole thing. It's also true that if you could securely generate and distribute enough random material fast enough, you could use it as a one-time-pad. And you'd better be sure with whom you're communicating.

      Unfortunately, the bandwidth available using current quantum key distribution techniques makes this difficult at present for most realistic applications, so no, current systems do not "generate a one-time pad on the fly". They still generate keys that are used to encrypt the data with traditional symmetric encryption which is then transmitted over a faster, normal communications channel. And why shouldn't they? With a large enough key, you can securely protect your data at far less cost.

      It's quite a nice idea to use a quantum system in this way. But if you can securely exchange one-time-pad key material fast enough to exchange your message, why not simply exchange the message itself? The system detects eavesdropping, after all.

    5. Re:Unauthenticated key exchange by Karhgath · · Score: 1

      i agree that the "on-the-fly" is misleading. it's not interactive, meaning you couldn't use it as a protocol for IM or a network game. But for emails and non-real-time communications, it is 'on-the-fly'. Bandiwth problems are a bottleneck now, but might not be tomorrow. You can't send data faster than light, but you can send more than one photon at a time, so broadbandiwth will alleviate more and more this problem.

      And yeah, I've heard people saying : whats the point? just send the message over.

      Well, logistically it would be a nightmare. Also, it **statistically** detects eavesdropping - like, 15% of the mesage was eavesdrop. It does NOT check every single bit, since the validation involves sending a subset of bits over a classical channel. If it tends to 0%, then it is secure. The higher it is, the higher the output will be garbage.

    6. Re:Unauthenticated key exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't Diffie-Hellman based on the discrete logarithm problem? Can discrete logarithms be quantum parallellized?

    7. Re:Unauthenticated key exchange by mattpalmer1086 · · Score: 1

      >>Well, logistically it would be a nightmare. Also, it **statistically** detects eavesdropping

      A good point :) Also, since you don't know which bits in advance will be detected correctly at the other end, I would imagine that you'd need some pretty heavy error correction if you chose to use that channel to send the message itself, rather than a usefully random one-time-pad.

    8. Re:Unauthenticated key exchange by mattpalmer1086 · · Score: 1

      Yes, Diffie-Hellman is based on discrete logs. I'm not an expert on quantum algorithms, but I believe that Shor had quantum algorithms for factoring *and* discrete logarithms.

      Here's a link to some papers on citeseer:

      http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/58960.html

  50. just use a one-time-pad to boot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if each time you send a new random key using quantum, this key is bigger than the random one-time-pad key you use to authenticate the new key, then you only need a small one-time-pad to boot an infinite private communication !

  51. Ummm... by Kjella · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ...unless there's a flaw in this analogy, I don't see how this protects again a man-in-the-middle attack.

    Alice is sending a key to Bob. Hacker intercepts the key exchange and sends his own key to Bob. Bob tries to report back, but is also intercepted. He reports back to hacker which bits he got of the hacker's key, hacker reports back to Alice which bits he got of Alice's key. Then the hacker sits in the middle reencrypting on-the-fly.

    Personally, I thought it was only good to transfer messages securely. For example, if the key was known to the sender, reciever and the hacker, the hacker could still not intercept it without destroying the message in the process.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Ummm... by Dusabre · · Score: 1

      The above requires a total domination of the network. By its very nature there is no way to stop a man-in-the-middle attack in which all communications can be intercepted and replaced.

    2. Re:Ummm... by ekc · · Score: 1

      No public key scheme can establish the absolute identity of the remote party in the absence of some prior relationship, even if it is through a shared acquaintence. That's why we need certificate authorities to vouch for secure web sites. What they can do is verify that later transmissions are coming from the same source as the original.

      Say Bob runs a rumor site. An anonymous tipster could establish a secure connection with him to leak some confidential data. Bob may choose to sit on it until he knows it checks out, but if it does and the tipster keeps throwing more his way, he would be more inclined to trust it because he can verify the sender.

      At this point, he still doesn't know that the tipster was Alice. Alice could reveal who she is, but Bob would still need a third party to verify that her signature is genuine. I can't see anything in quantum cryptography which would be any different as far as that's concerned.

    3. Re:Ummm... by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Yes, but with traditional assimetric criptography, A can know the key of a trusted database that stores B's public key. That is not entirely immune to a man-in-the-middle attack, but just on the time that A and B get the database key (one time oly, and they can get if fisically).
      The problem with the algoritm presented id that it can be broken with a man-in-the-middle attack any time that A and B exchange keys, what is far less secure.

    4. Re:Ummm... by ekc · · Score: 1

      Well, this is the way I envisioned it would work. Alice would register with a CA, securely submitting a random key which could be used for future authentication. Once the CA is satisfied that it has established Alice's identity, the key would go into its database. Bob would do likewise.

      When Alice wants to talk to Bob, she first sends a random sequence to the CA to be relayed to Bob. (The CA will assert to Bob that the message came from Alice.) She also sends the same sequence to Bob directly over a secure channel she has set up with him, and Bob simply compares the two copies he receives to see if they match.

      If it turns out that there are hash functions which are resistent to quantum cryptoanalysis, you could simplify the scheme further so that Alice just sends a signed message to Bob and Bob asks the CA to verify it.

      You're right that there is a weakness here, however, in that the CA would own a key with which they could impersonate Alice. The whole point is that you are supposed to trust your CA, but that certainly does raise the burden of trust.

    5. Re:Ummm... by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Yes, they have to trust too much the CA, and there are some other flaws.
      Fisrt A can't choose the key she send either to CA and B, she sent the fotons, her peer read them, and, based on the random data read, the key is stablished.
      Second, if C owns B's computer he can pretend he is both A and the CA. With classical assimetric keys, C cannot yet read the data A send to B to confirm her identeity, but with this algoritm, he can.
      So, there is no advantege in having the CA here.

  52. Damn Heizenberg! by rob_squared · · Score: 2, Funny

    Before you'll know it the will be another hot-or-not spinoff called "is my cat dead-or-not" and it will be a bunch of blank pictures.

    --
    I don't get it.
  53. OTP: you don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OTP means it's only used once
    so you won't get any new useful information by using a known plaintext to get the random bits that were used to encrypt it, since those bits won't be used again !

  54. Aharonov by Dr.+Hugh+Everett+III · · Score: 1
    1. Re:Aharonov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had the priviledge to meet Aharonov last year. Great physicist and a nice guy too!

  55. Technology VS. Laws by Lepaca+Kliffoth · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just a thought, maybe off-topic. I think articles like this one show the inherent flaw in anti-circumvention laws. While the american government says "if you put a lock on something it's unlawful to break it, develop something that breaks it, tell someone how to make something that breaks it etc. etc." we're all seeing where technology is going: quantum computing (sorry if this term is not the right one, have mercy, I'm italian, I mean the ability to compute using quantum mechanics principles) could very well break any kind of lock we know today. This is more proof that high-level, modern technology and copyright/anti-circumvention laws can't possibly coexist as long as copyright has the form and shape it has today. Either laws change or technology stops. Sorry if this comment was too much off-topic.

  56. Only theory stands in the way.... by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 1

    problem with making a quantum computer, you have to somehow isolate a bunch of particles so they have absolutely no interaction with each other or with anything else. Kinda hard to do. It's been done for very small numbers of particles, for very short times. And if the theory is correct, there are really steep limiting curves to how many and how long you can have particles in the proper state before they decohere. So I wouldnt expect to see a quantum computer at Wal-Mart for many many decades.

  57. Good to see you again! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm glad you're back, Santa!

    Btw, do you know what happened to Trollback? There was no new issue since September... What's wrong?

  58. Quantum Non Demolition Detection by essreenim · · Score: 1
    Obviously, u guys never heard of QND. If I wans a Q-h4x0r thats where I would be focussing my cracking.

    http://www.lkb.ens.fr/recherche/qedcav/english/eng lishframes.html

  59. PETA will be angry by iamatlas · · Score: 1, Funny

    I can't see PETA, or event myself for that matter, going along with a quantum encryption system when every time you unencrypt and open the box/vault/computer/etc. there is a 50/50 chance of killing a cat.

  60. too much trouble.. by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 1

    DNA encryption and carrier pigeons...

  61. TFA says by Sviams · · Score: 1

    TFA says that by doing so you will corrupt the qubits unalterably in a way that is detectable by the sender and receiver, which is also why it is impossible to use signal amplifying repeaters to extend the range of the transmission.

    1. Re:TFA says by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      But how is it different to using a full-blown reciever, which re-encodes the data and re-transmits it?

    2. Re:TFA says by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference is that you're a fucking idiot. RTFA and then maybe you won't have such fatuous questions.

    3. Re:TFA says by ptell · · Score: 1

      For a receiver (or ppl in the field would say detector), you convert quantum information to classical information and that's fine.

      Now for a repeater, you also convert quantum information to classical information. But then you want to recreate the original quantum state based on the classical information you've obtained. And that is impossible.

      If you want to find out more about the impossibility statement above, try to google "No Cloning Theorem"

  62. Verbing weirds language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Scientific American claims that advances in commercially available quantum encryption might obsolete the existing factorization-based solutions:...

    Verbing weirds language.

  63. Paradox Lost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it possible for the Quantum Computer to create an encryption mechanism that even it can't crack?

    Apparently, yes.

  64. A Thought by caveat · · Score: 1

    A lot of people here are (rightly so) pointing out that QCrypt is of limited use because it's only good for a straight run of fiber and is therefore useless for anything over ~100km at most. Well, wouldn't it be a relatively trivial matter to install trusted amplification stations that could verify the integrity of the transmission over the last link, and then bang it out over the next link? It'd be like a normal network, except your links would be shorter and your "routers" would have to be a whole hell of a lot more secure, but is there any fundamental reason why it wouldn't work?

    --

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
    1. Re:A Thought by Karhgath · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      All the nice properties of Quantum Mechanics that makes Quantum Key Distribution works implies that it is impossible to have amplifier for quantum data. To amplify a signal, you need to read it, but reading it changes the data, which acts as an eavesdropper and thus prevent the key exhcnage to take place.

      Down the road, someone bright enough might figure out a (probably weird) way to have 'routers' or 'amplifiers', but right now, it's not theorically feasible.

    2. Re:A Thought by caveat · · Score: 1

      Oh, I know all about the properties of QM that make QCrypt possible *pats PhysChem book*; when i say "router" or "amplifier" i mean a trusted computer system that recieves the message, destroyng the QCrypt, and then rebroadcasts it with fresh QCryption along to the next system in the net. Like I said, more a daisy-chained system of single-links.

      --

      Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
  65. Man in the Middle (Mallory) by njyoder · · Score: 0

    Maybe I'm missing something here, but what prevents a MITM attack? Mallory pretends to be Bob, gets the bits from Alice and sends back which bits he read using which method. Alice tells him and *boom* he has the entire message. Mallory then starts a completely NEW quantum connection with Bob and repeats the message (possibly altered) sent to Mallory. With public key crypto, you have the advantage of having a public key you know belongs to a certain p erson. With this, you just know that it's some person on the other end, but you don't know who it is. How are we doing unique identification? I don't see how it's possible without relying on something crackable (password/key/etc...)

  66. OTPs don't play well with QCrypt by caveat · · Score: 1

    There's just not enough bandwidth available on existing QCrypt links to send an OTP - AFAIK the plan is to use a strong conventional aystem like AES and send the key, just a few dozen bytes, over the QCrypt network, then send the multi-megabyte encrypted message in a more conventional way.

    --

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
    1. Re:OTPs don't play well with QCrypt by Karhgath · · Score: 1

      What? QKD (quantum Key Distribution) generates a OTP key on the fly using the quantum link. AFAIK, there is no bandwith problem.

      It is currently working and some companies are selling those system (idQuantique comes to mind). It doesn't use AES, as it would be pointless.

  67. Question by Woogiemonger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is it possible to detect whether or not something quantum-encrypted is being transmitted? There's plenty of information you can garner from a transmission based on the start and stop time, frequency, source and destination, duration, etc. - Scott

    1. Re:Question by BlaisorBlade · · Score: 1

      With Quantum Key Exchange (like somebody correctly called quantum Encryption) you have an unbreakable way, not vulnerable to MITM attacks, to send a random stream of bits, i.e. the key.

      Then, you use One Time Pad (OTP) cryptography, which is well-known as unbreakable, once you have sent the key: you xor the key with the message, and send it... since you xor the plaintext with random data, you get random data. If (for instance) plaintext is all '0' or all '1', i.e. no entropy at all, you get the key or its complement.

      Now, what can be analyzed in a max-entropy stream?

  68. /.ers unite against quantum computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the mysterious future, moms all over the world will upgrade to Quantum computers and stumble upon and decrypt /.ers pr0n stash hidden in c:\school-project.dat back in 2005.

  69. Why Quantum Cryptography isn't popular by CTachyon · · Score: 1

    (The following is a post I wrote a month ago to a different forum.)

    I don't really see Quantum Cryptography being wildly popular. The big downer is that you need a continuous, clear point-to-point transmission between the two people talking. If Alice is in Los Angeles and Bob is in Tokyo, then you need a trans-Pacific undersea QC fiber-optic channel temporarily dedicated to just Alice and Bob (no packet switching) AND you can't have any classic repeaters to boost signal strength. That second requirement pretty much kills it for distances greater than 50 miles or so.

    You could add repeaters, and have each repeater decrypt/re-encrypt, but then an attacker can tap into a repeater undetected and the biggest benefit of QC is lost.

    There's a technique for building a quantum repeater. Basically, the gist is something like this:

    A # x _ y # B
    (INSERT QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT HERE)
    ___ x # y ___
    A ######### B

    A = Alice
    B = Bob
    x = Randy's incoming interface
    y = Randy's outgoing interface
    (Randy is the quantum repeater.)

    That is, you can entangle entangled particles to "transmit" the entanglement. If I'm getting this correctly, Alice would transmit half a pair to Randy, Randy would transmit half a different pair to Bob, then Randy would entangle his two halves so that Alice and Bob would have a direct pair. However, since you can't tell if two particles are still entangled without measuring them (and thus losing entanglement), the odds of an A:B pair staying coherent would be (A:R)*(R:B), or (A:R)^2 if all things are equal. Each repeater would add its own factor, so n hops (n-1 repeaters plus final delivery) means p^n chance of a good end-to-end entanglement. Since p<1, the channel bandwidth drops VERY rapidly with an increase in the number of hops. If you have 2Mparticle/s optic links (after accounting for the fact that you throw away every other photon), and 50% decohere on each link, that means 1Mbit/s bandwidth for a direct link, 500kbit/s bandwidth if you add one repeater, and continuing to drop in half for each extra repeater. My gut says there's a tradeoff between inter-repeater distance (big distance = less coherence) and hops (more repeaters = faster drop), and that you have to optimize for the local maxima depending on the exact link parameters. Ugh. That means if you upgrade to better link cables, you potentially need to re-locate all the repeaters in the world.

    This might be bearable if you just use the QC link as a key exchange medium, then switch to classic secret-key crypto (e.g. AES) over the Internet once you've agreed on a key. Sending even a huge 512-bit AES key over 20 hops (same link parameters as above) would take just under 5 minutes, which is a pretty decent re-keying interval. 20 hops would get you 1000 miles with near-future tech. (Although 20 DS1-size links would be dedicated just to your re-keying channel, so it'd be hideously expensive. A single non-Internet-connected DS1 runs about $500/month in my area. But I could see it happening between e.g. universities or military bases.)

    So, with all those problems in mind, don't expect QC to take over anytime in the next half-century or so. Until a working quantum computer is built (and quantum computers are actually harder than quantum crypto), public-key crypto like RSA and DSA (the stuff that SSL runs on) is still safe and doesn't have as much hassle. And, thankfully, quantum computers don't do jack shit against secret-key crypto. (They can shave 1 bit off your secret key, but that's trivial. They aren't magic wands.)

    --
    Range Voting: preference intensity matters
  70. Quantum System Administration by gCGBD · · Score: 1

    I've created all possible user accounts on the system, each with all possible passwords.

    I can't tell you who is logged on, you may or may not be, if I looked, then we'd know, but it would defeat the point.

    I think your disk is full and empty at the same time.

    We reached a CPU resource bottleneck, or then again, maybe we haven't.

    I'd like to say I got a good backup, what do you think?

    --

    O=='=++
  71. "just" engineering by hopeless+case · · Score: 1

    How much you want to bet that the practical difficulty of building an n-bit quantum computer turns out to be exponential in n?

    So building a 1024 qubit computer would be 2**1022 times harder than building a 2 qubit computer, in other words.

  72. Uhhh... the math is still against QE cracking by grikdog · · Score: 1

    Even if these hypothetical systems crack at the rate of megaflops per nanosecond, it's still possible to scale conventional crypto to the point where brute force takes longer than universal proton decay. This looks like NSA fudd to me, analogous to those flying saucer reports in Iran.

    --
    ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
    1. Re:Uhhh... the math is still against QE cracking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if these hypothetical systems crack at the rate of megaflops per nanosecond

      millions of floating-point operations per second per nanosecond? hmm... accelerating computers?

    2. Re:Uhhh... the math is still against QE cracking by BlaisorBlade · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the more you increase the key size, the more your conventional computer gets slower, too.

      But quantum computers are not at all faster computer - they scale better for some kind of computation.

      For breaking a key of N bits, your computer needs about time 2^N, while a quantum computer needs time B.

    3. Re:Uhhh... the math is still against QE cracking by grikdog · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. You can scale your cipher by, e.g., using two or three copies of Mersenne Twister (each initialised using the "strong cipher" internal table -- a different secret for each instance), then taking the product of output streams to generate tokens for AES running in CTC mode. This method is preferred, because the assumption is that ALL asymmetric ciphers can be reduced to degenerate cases, and because mixing in another token builder as needed scales security without compromising performance.

      --
      ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
  73. Crackable OTP? by underworld · · Score: 1

    Everyone is saying a one time pad is "impossible" to break... I would like to respectfully disagree. I think it's amazingly improbable that you could break it. The reason? There is the remotest chance that you could guess the OTP correctly. Not very likely that you could luck into that... but still a mathematical physical real possibility. And I suppose the same would be true of the quantum encryption.

    1. Re:Crackable OTP? by tenaciousdRules · · Score: 1

      I totally agree. Then again, I belive it is possible that Lyndsy Lohan's breasts are real.

      --
      --Always, I mean never..., No I mean always check your references.--
    2. Re:Crackable OTP? by ekc · · Score: 1

      The problem is that random noise superimposed on data is still random noise as far as the eavesdropper is concerned. You might as well just take a stab at the message itself rather than bother trying to guess the OTP. Given the length of the message and its source and destination, you might be able to make a reasonable stab at it, though even those things can be obfuscated.

    3. Re:Crackable OTP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Additionally, *any* plaintext generated from the ciphertext is just as likely to be the original message. There is no way for Eve to determine whether the message said "Must kill Eve" or "Eves my lover", as both solutions are just as plausible based on the ciphertext.

    4. Re:Crackable OTP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, it's possible to guess the key; but you could never be certain that you guessed correctly. Even if your "decrypted" text makes sense, you can not be sure that "often" wasn't supposed to be "never", or "Seattle" wasn't supposed to be "Houston".

    5. Re:Crackable OTP? by grikdog · · Score: 1

      The security of OTP depends on the length of the encrypted plaintext, so if you encrypt 4k of data, the number of possible plaintexts is 2^4192 - 1 (or is that plus?). Heat death of the universe. Even if you get three or four potential Million Monkey Manuscripts out of the process, there's no way to know if that's "the" message. The only practical way to crack OTP is with a rubber hose (see Doonesbury this week.)

      --
      ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
  74. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I haven't seen any. In fact, I'd have to call 90% of what Scientific American, Omni, Popular Science (since when was science a matter of popular opinion), and all the other newsstand science rag/mags say is... well... as reliable as what you expect to find in any of the other tabloids.

  75. Hacking Possibilities? by tenaciousdRules · · Score: 1

    Well, I guess the vulnerability could be found in the repeaters. They move the state of one photon to another for longer distance transmissions. In the article: Ultimately cryptographers want some form of quantum repeater--in essence, an elementary form of quantum computer that would overcome distance limitations. Now, I understand that tapping a fiber line to grab photons would changer their state and allow for detection, but I can't believe it is impossible to grab the state of the photons somehow. My small brain has an idea, someone shoot it down please. Here goes. If a quantum repeater allows can 'mimic' a photons state, why can't a repeater be hacked to make copies? That is a repeater repeater. All of this is too Star Trek for me, going back to VB coding now... Brain hurts...

    --
    --Always, I mean never..., No I mean always check your references.--
    1. Re:Hacking Possibilities? by fbartho · · Score: 1

      ideally a quantum repeater would not personally know the state of a particle... I would recieve a qubit, and preserve its state of indeterminancy when passing it on... The measurment of a state off the qubit collapses its indeterminancy SO... it wouldn't really be possible for some hacker to get data off of a repeater without changing the results for the participants involved...

      --
      Gravity Sucks
  76. Confusing two different things by Exp315 · · Score: 1

    Quantum cryptography is the encoding of communications using a quantum technique which allows the guaranteed detection of any intrusion or interception of the communication. Prototype systems now available. Not to be confused with quantum computers, a technology which could theoretically allow successful code-cracking computations which are beyond the power of current computers. Quantum computers are theoretically possible, but only the most basic building blocks of the technology have been demonstrated to date. And it should be noted that cryptographic engineers have already documented half a dozen techniques for intercepting quantum cryptographic communications without violating any laws of physics by simply outsmarting the builders and operators of such systems. For example, by taking advantage of the error correction built into the sender's hardware to make it repeat data blocks without notifying the human operator. Or overloading the receiver's detector by shining a laser down the optical fibre, causing it to read all zeroes.

    1. Re:Confusing two different things by tenaciousdRules · · Score: 1

      Nice post. If I was moderating, you get a big 5 (not much different than a 'regular' 5, but a 5 nonetheless). Informative. Good work!

      --
      --Always, I mean never..., No I mean always check your references.--
  77. I hate all these encryption articles... by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

    None of them answer the most basic questions facing geeks today:

    Screw public keys and I don't care how long a password I have to type: What's the best way to encrypt my network drive dedicated to porn?

    How long before some big bad TLA gubmint agency will be able to break that encryption?

    When one of these scholarly journals simply and directly answers those two questions, crypto-challenged geeks everywhere will rejoice.

    1. Re:I hate all these encryption articles... by fbartho · · Score: 1

      Currently they already can break it... not to sound like a conspiracy theorist... but seriously, the current classic encrypition schemes can all be broken given enough time and enough resources, and with intelligent people working on them, there are many optimizations that can be implemented to prune the possible codes that need to be tried brute force... Current schemes could take XXXXXX years to crack, but it doesn't have to... It could be the first code they try...

      --
      Gravity Sucks
    2. Re:I hate all these encryption articles... by TTK+Ciar · · Score: 1

      Screw public keys and I don't care how long a password I have to type: What's the best way to encrypt my network drive dedicated to porn?

      IMO? You can "stretch" a relatively short OTP into the equivalent of a really long OTP by filtering it through a nonlinear feedback shift register algorithm, effectively turning an N-bit OTP into a slightly less than N**2 OTP. Keep this OTP in a thumb USB drive around your neck or on your keyring. The trivial perl script you use to apply it to data could also be on there, or you can keep it on the net. It doesn't matter too much if the adversary can find it, as long as they don't get their hands on your OTP. You can then safely encrypt TB's of pr0n or nookleear weppens schematics or whatever, using just a few MB's of OTP (which will stretch to TB's long via your NLFSR). You then need a process by which you can decrypt select data, make use of it, and then wipe the plaintext without leaving any of it behind to be recovered later when they kick down your door and drag all your equipment away.

      How long before some big bad TLA gubmint agency will be able to break that encryption?

      Until they either pull the USB drive from the chain on your neck, or flood the market with common hardware which spies on you (eg, USB controllers with radio transmitters or very large buffers for later retrieval) if they haven't already, or until they point the appropriate TEMPEST gear at your computer while you're accessing your sooper sekrit information.

      I cannot recommend Bruce Schneier's Applied Cryptography enough. Buy it and read it and understand it, and you should have a pretty good idea of how to make your pr0n collection pretty safe.

      -- TTK

  78. Cryptanalysis in principle by porpnorber · · Score: 1

    The threat of quantum computing to conventional cryptography is twofold. First, it provides novel factoring algorithms that attack specific contemporary cryptosystems that rely on certain mathematical problems used for key exchange being 'hard'; in the future we defend against this by moving to new core problems that are hard int he new computational domain. The second (to simplify rather) is the potential to 'brute force' the key space of cryptosystems in general by trying exponentially many keys in parallel. One time pads remain secure, because they consume enough key bits to keep all decrypts equiprobable (up to length). Although for key distribution this property of equiprobable decrypts is essential (because the task is one of maintaining the size of the keyspace for an attack on subsequent stages in a protocol), for many tasks it suffices just to provide enough sufficiently probable alternatives that the correct candidate decryption cannot be recognised. For example, if I have as a front end to my cryptosystem a codebook that says '0 = sell the stock, 1 = meet me for lunch, 2 = I am having an affair with your wife, 3 = I think it may rain', then even a one-bit key should keep me safe from the SEC (though it now matters whether the recipient is, in the real world, married).

    The point is this: the absolute mathematical defense against bruteforcing is a key space the size of the message space. But it also suffices to compress the message before encryption with sufficient competence that the full key space generates many plausible decrypts (where 'many' means specifically that the cost of verifying them exceeds the value of the message).

    I suspect that since quantum computation is in principle limited by readout, increasing the difficulty of recognising a decrypt becomes the key defense to this attack.

    This makes data compression very important to future security (and patents in the field a significant threat).

  79. An example by bigberk · · Score: 1

    There are actually commercial products (MagiQ) that do quantum encrypted links over fiber. If this product is properly made, I could well see it obsoleting any classical crypto tunnels (like VPN etc). Hell, you just layer the classical crypto over the quantum secured link anyway. I have recently been talking with professors at a major North American university who will in fact be dissecting this equipment; but yeah, classical crypto simply can't compete with equipment like this. You put up the quantum crypto link on fiber, then any classical crypto underneath.

  80. MOD PARENT UP! by sbowles · · Score: 1
    Despite this being an AC post, at least this person has read and understood the article.

    This implementation of quantum cryptography is, in essense, a secure negotiation of a one-time-pad that can be used in any symetric key algorithm.

    --
    You sly dog: you got me monologuing! - Syndrome
  81. star-star means just one thing... by LandruBek · · Score: 1
    computations simultaneously on 2**256 integers

    Look! Someone writing something new in FORTRAN! It's hardly ever seen outside of zoos now.
    [aussie] This stuff is REALLY DANGEROUS! [/aussie]
    --
    $META_SIG_JOKE
    1. Re:star-star means just one thing... by znu · · Score: 1
      Maybe it's Python.
      Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11)
      [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
      Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
      >>> 2**256
      115792089237316195423570985008687907853269 984665640564039457584007913129639936L
      >>>
      That's a freaking big number.
      --
      This space unintentionally left unblank.
  82. Collecting scattered photons by chiph · · Score: 1

    Because light soft of "bounces" down a fiber optic, being reflected from the walls, could you (very carefully) strip off the insulation, and put a bend in the fiber, and collect the stray photons whose angle of incidence wasn't shallow enough to be reflected?

    Chip H.

  83. I call bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I happen to know a bit about the research going on in the area and it so happens that SciAm is just being sensationalistic as usual. They're nowhere near having useable Quantum Encryption devices. The experiments are starting to catch up to the theory, but aren't there yet.

  84. Truly random bits by 5n3ak3rp1mp · · Score: 1

    That's amazing (re: distilling truly random bits from a biased bitstream). I had no idea that was possible, or even that simple, but of course it makes sense in 20/20 hindsight. Do you know if all methodologies to generate computed randomness via something like environmental sampling (e.g., /dev/random) take advantage of this to purify the random bitstream?

    1. Re:Truly random bits by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 1

      Many methods use something called hash saturation to distill randomness. This isn't as provably strong, but in practice it tends to be better (more efficient with the entropy in your stream) than the von Neumann whitener (which is what GP described).

      --
      I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
  85. Eliptic curve encryption by rbarreira · · Score: 1
    --

    The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
  86. Just Remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every time you use quantum encryption God kills a kitten.

  87. ECE: long term solution, or short? by TTK+Ciar · · Score: 1

    An alternative to using RSA, DSA, or other encryption methods which rely on the difficulty of factoring is Elliptic Curve Encryption. As far as I know, nobody has come up with a theory for how quantum computing might be used to crack ECE. What I do not know is how hard it might be to come up with such a thing, or how long it might take to become available once the theory is mapped out.

    RSA-oriented solutions are going to get the lion's share of the attention and development for a while, because it is so popular. Unless ECE catches on in a big way, and/or RSA is widely viewed as useless, there won't be much market incentive to develop an ECE-oriented solution. At least, that's my opinion. So in the meantime, ECE-encrypted data might be safer than RSA/DSA-encrypted data.

    -- TTK

  88. Elitzur, Vaidman, Vedral, Dolev, Zeilinger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... there are a few exceptions to this rule - e.g. Aharanov

    1. Re:Elitzur, Vaidman, Vedral, Dolev, Zeilinger by essreenim · · Score: 1

      I read it. It's very interesting. It sould have potiential but they still have yet to carry out a real lab test. So far it has all ben thought experiments. But, given the right minds, a thought experiment is as good as the real thing. I think they may be on to something big ..

  89. Your girlfriend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is NOT doing this. She is not using a single photon to send the information, since there are no reliable single-photon sources. These quantum cryptography systems are a scam, since they really send some number of photons > 1. If Eve intercepts just one photon in the burst, the other photons get through and the eavesdropping can't be detected.

    When reliable single-photon turnstiles are available, that problem may be fixed.

  90. Readable version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  91. Tapping Fiber... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...doesn't need a trillion dollar budget. In fact, it's almost as easy as splicing cables and putting in a "three way" connector.

  92. Stimulated Emission of Radiation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that an effect that allows the eavesdropper to "clone" photons is already known: Stimulated Emission of Radiation, the same thing as used in lasers. Why doesn't this break QCrypt?

  93. Pfft.. by StikyPad · · Score: 1

    Quantum links have been around since the 80s.

    http://www.qlinklives.org/