Posted by
michael
on from the amalgamated-and-homogenized dept.
An anonymous reader sends in a link to Businessweek talking about the business of Linux, and the increasing threat to Microsoft's operating system monopoly.
Wonder why they left out....
by
GillBates0
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
The software is making its way into everything from Motorola (MOT ) cell phones and Mitsubishi robots to eBay (EBAY ) servers and the NASA supercomputers that run space-shuttle simulations.
Google. That would've helped to shake up the PHBs a little more effectively, given this is BusinessWeek.
-- An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
You know something must be up if BillG himself is shuffling off to South America to persuade the government to lose interest in open software...
Re:It's not the business model...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Buying decisions are made by suits, though. Most CIO's are former CFO's working towards becoming COO's. They don't give two shits about what "hackers" like.
If it were not from grown-ups (in suits) working for Red Hat and IBM driving the Market, Linux would still be a nifty project on University campuses, instead of the multi-billion-dollar industry that it is.
Re:"threat" to MS?
by
Dillusionary
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Don't be so foolish to beleive MS is letting anything.... It's not up to them, it's up to the product. If MS was even remotely able to let anything be done about it, it would have been done a long time ago, and Linux wouldn't be known. Linux is a solid product. They would serious need to convince companies like Cisco,IBM,HP to drop Linux. BUt that will never happen.
Yeah Right.....
by
big-giant-head
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Not even M$ has the change to buy IBM and they are the biggest 'Linux' company out there.....
--
So Long and Thanks for all the Fish.
wake me up
by
beforewisdom
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
I have seen headlines about the linux revolution for a few years now.
I use linux at home and love it.
Wake me up when linux breaks double digit market share in the desktop world and then we can call it a revolution
Linux Desktop Thoughts...
by
Jace+of+Fuse!
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
I've been really thinking about the whole Linux gaining footing thing, and as much as everyone around here just LOVES XWindows and loves to say it's as usable as OS X or Windows, let's face it, in the eyes of most users it simply isn't.
Apple has taken FreeBSD/Darwin and built their own desktop environment around it. OS X is very usable according to most people. And even though there are many camps of people who will argue that Windows is more usable than OS X or vice versa, the one point most people will agree on is that OS X and Windows are both more usable than XWindows and the various window managers. I perosnally hate both KDE and Gnome, and thus use a mostly text BSD box, but I know I'm in the minority there, as well.
Here's what I've been thinking.
What's stopping someone from writing an entire environment like OS X from the ground up, around and on top of Linux, and creating an OS X like environment that is as complete and modern as either OS X or Windows?
I know everybody shudders at the thought of obsoleting their beloved X, but even some OS X users install and use X when they still feel they need it, but I think I'm just being realistic when I think hanging onto X is just overall the wrong strategy for putting Linux on the desktop. (Counter arguments exist, and will likely be in the many replies, and I don't entirely disagree with them, but...)
I really think this is an effort worth pursuing. A new desktop environment built to be the primary way that Linux is used. A Linux based graphical environment designed from the ground up to be a Desktop GUI, following in the footsteps of OSX/Aqua.
To make things easier (here's where many will disagree with me) one could work on such a program primarily focusing on modern hardware and esspecially modern video cards. Let's face it, ATI and NVidia run the show now days anyway.
These are just my thoughts, and I hope people will constructively discuss this possibility instead of throwing around a bunch of "No way, not possible, why bother, go to hell Apple/Microsoft lover" comments.
I like BSD, and I like OS X. I would like to see something similar done with Linux.
--
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
Re:Linux Desktop Thoughts...
by
stratjakt
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
What's stopping someone from writing an entire environment like OS X from the ground up, around and on top of Linux, and creating an OS X like environment that is as complete and modern as either OS X or Windows?
Nothing at all. Get started, I wish you luck on that.
IMO, something as polished as OSX or Windows can only be created in a corporate setting. There are too many egos wanting different things, it'd be impossible to get a team of 100 coders to all agree to work towards the same set of goals. One guy wants X, another wants Y.
There comes a point when you need someone to say "we're going with X, like it or find another job."
There's more than enough talent to get the job done, but not nearly enough leadership, or talented people who are willing to volunteer their time to take orders to create something - even if it's not exactly what they want to create.
--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:Linux Desktop Thoughts...
by
Brandybuck
·
· Score: 4, Informative
one point most people will agree on is that OS X and Windows are both more usable than XWindows...
XWindows, or more properly "the X Windows System", is not the desktop. It's a low level GUI API, not much different in purpose than Windows' own Win32 and GDI libraries. Except for one difference. I've programmed in both bare Xlib and bare Win32, and Xlib is by far the better library. It may take a bit more "scaffolding", but it's much more sensible and easier to use for the moderately experienced developer. (Ditto comparing Motif to MFC, the latter being completely unusable without the help of Visual Studio's wizards.)
Let's move up a step. You next mentioned window managers and desktops, so let's talk about them. The Windows desktop is perceived to be user friendly *ONLY* because it is familiar to people. The window manager portion of it is actually quite rudimentary and difficult to use. Usability features like snap-to and rollups are simply missing in Windows, yet standard offerings for even the most humble X11 window manager. Similar problems exist for on "desktop" side of things. Consider the "show desktop" button in Windows, which will minimize all windows, but tells usability to smeg off when it won't subsequently restore them. And where are the multiple desktops?
I haven't really used OSX that much, so I can't comment on it. But in comparison to Windows, Unix/X11 + [KDE|GNOME|XFCE] is far more usable and friendly. But people don't know it because they haven't been steeped in it like they have been for Windows.
I spent a couple of years using FreeBSD/KDE at work (until they forced me to stop). The phrase "wow, how did you do that" in reference to my desktop was often uttered in my cubicle. This wasn't in response to the "cool" stuff of KDE, but in response to the ordinary everyday things I take for granted. Such as multiple desktops, "show desktop" that also restores, snap-to windows, rollups, z-ordering, etc, etc.
As long as Linux/Unix has newbies from Windows-land, we will continue to hear whines of X11 being difficult and obtuse. But that's only because they refuse to learn the new culture. In many ways the X11 desktops certainly are difficult and obtuse, but they are a lot less so than Windows.
-- Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Unfortunately true....
by
GillBates0
·
· Score: 5, Funny
but with his wild long hair and odd behavior, he doesn't fit in with the suit-and-tie crowd. During speaking engagements, Stallman often adopts the persona of "St. IGNUcius," donning a robe and a halo made of a computer disk.
Having RMS walk in in his St. Ignucius getup is enough to make anybody lose their lunch...not just the suit and tie crowd.
-- An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Threat?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
I just had a knee-jerk thought. How is Linux a threat to anyone? Linux is freely available to almost anyone... individuals or businesses.
The "playing field" is even because of this universal availability. Those that don't take advantage of this MAY find themselves at a disadvantage to those that do.
Linux isn't a threat because YOU choose NOT to use it in your business model. The real threat is a poor plan that doesn't use the tools and technologies FREELY available today.
Did that make any sense?:-)
An observation
by
Danathar
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
I read somewhere an interesting theory that companies (and organizations) that don't try to compete directly with Microsoft (plan their buisness around beating Billy) and just concentrate on making a good product end up succeeding. (Imagine that!).
One of Microsoft's tactics over the years is to bait companies into direct competition with them. Usually companies that take the bait lose.
As long as LINUX continues to improve NOT because of MS but because people are interested in making better software, then I think success will continue.
I'd imagine it's as if you were playing some game like raquetball or tennis and some dude is at the fence trying to get you to "compete" when you are perfectly content to play whatever you are playing, and get better.
Re:It's not the business model...
by
KiltedKnight
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Buying decisions are made by suits, though. Most CIO's are former CFO's working towards becoming COO's. They don't give two shits about what "hackers" like.
Unfortunately, they tend to do this on the golf course with their other CEO, CIO, CFO, and CTO buddies, instead of asking the people who have to actually support the applications and systems. They want all the stuff that looks flashy, etc. The techies, unfortunately, then have to figure out ways to make the stuff work.
Many years ago, I went to a company where they wanted to have several applications talk to each other. Two of them ran on Solaris, two of them ran on Windows. One used Oracle as the back-end, another used DBASE. How did they come up with the combination of COTS stuff? They asked the users to pick which software package they wanted for which particular function. The problem is, nobody ever really evaluated what could be done with each of them. It turned out that one of the Windows apps couldn't be made to talk with anything else because of the memory control module. The database stuff it used wanted to do its own memory allocation, and it interfered with the TCP/IP sockets library's ability to do its necessary memory allocation. I didn't last long there, because I basically made my opinions known and they didn't want to hear that they made some really bad decisions.
When going for my RHCE, the instructor was telling us that RedHat basically came into existence because for Linux to be a viable business solution, companies wanted to be able to point fingers at someone to say, "You... FIX THIS!" They didn't want to file bug reports and wait for someone to get around to it. They wanted someone to be there at their beck-and-call, providing the necessary support. This kind of thinking is what actually helped Linux become a viable business solution.
-- OCO is Loco
Re:Nothing new
by
FatherOfONe
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
1998: First Joe user goes online and most of the servers he hits are running Linux. He doesn't care.
~2000: Then Joe user goes out and buys a Tivo (or Tivo like) product. It runs Linux, again he doesn't care because it offers the apps he wants.
~2001: Then Joe user buys a new cell phone and it runs Linux. He doesn't care because it is cheap and gives him the functionality he needs.
1999-2004: Now over that time device drivers start to appear more frequently for Linux because of all the servers and appliances that need them....
2002-2004: Major players (Oracle, BEA, Novell, IBM, HP, Sun, heck all but Microsoft start to support their software on Linux servers.... Even Crystal reports now runs on Linux.
2004: Point of sale devices start to standardize on Linux....
2000-2005: Standard desktop applications start to become common on Linux. Apps like DVD burning, MP3 playing, Office, P2P, Web Browsing and some games become part of a standard Linux install.
2005-2006: Linux desktop market share grows to surpass that of new Apple Macintosh sales. This forces companies like Macromedia (Dreamweaver) to start seriously looking at offering a Linux version of their products.
2007-2008: New devices will start to ship Linux drivers and software with their products. These drivers and software will be more common than drivers and software offered for the Macintosh. Companies like Macromedia and Filemaker will reluctantly start to offer Linux versions of their software, but they will be downloadable only. They will go to great concerns to "protect" their software from being copied.
2010: The Linux desktop market share in the U.S. will be around 15 to 20%. Microsoft Longhorn will be released. At a 20% desktop marketshare OEM's will now start to offer Linux on every model of computer and have the quantity of scale needed to lower the cost of a new computer pre-loaded with Linux.
2011: Joe user will go to purchase a new machine. Machines will now cost almost nothing, and software cost will be the lions share of the total cost. The machine with Windows will cost more than the machine with Linux. Joe user will ask if both will do the job, and they will. Both will run his legacy apps. Joe user doesn't care, and buys the cheaper box. Microsoft will be forced to SIGNIFICANTLY lower their price of Windows and Office thus killing their profits.
2015-2016: Linux market share now soars to 50% and video game makers now target Linux first. Microsoft will start to lay people off.
2017: Duke Nukem Forever for Linux is released ahead of the Windows version by a year.
My point is this.... "IF" Linux gets a 10-15% marketshare of the desktops, the game is over for Windows. At that point they have a large enough marketshare that it will be very hard for any software vendor to ignor them. That is what scares Microsoft to death. A free competitor that is "good enough" cannot get that large for them to survive.
My second point is that this isn't going to happen overnight. Heck it isn't going to happen in the next 5 years. But look at how far Linux has come in just the last 5 years. It use to be that Joe user couldn't even use a nicely configured Linux box, now he can. He can probably even install SuSe or RedHat. If you installed Linux back in 1996, then you realize how far they have come. Think about that. In less than 10 years Linux has come from impossible for a noob to use - to an almost complete replacement to Windows. Now factor in that a lot more people are working on Linux than Windows and you begin to see what Microsoft is worried about. Yes they have 60+Billion in the bank. Now you know why they are doing that. They will need that money.
Their ONLY hope is to go after patents, and perhaps the "living room". If they loose this battle then they are in for a long and hard road ahead and they will need a HUGE amount of money to "get them by" until their next great idea comes along. I also expect them to dum
-- The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
Google. That would've helped to shake up the PHBs a little more effectively, given this is BusinessWeek.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
You know something must be up if BillG himself is shuffling off to South America to persuade the government to lose interest in open software...
Buying decisions are made by suits, though. Most CIO's are former CFO's working towards becoming COO's. They don't give two shits about what "hackers" like.
If it were not from grown-ups (in suits) working for Red Hat and IBM driving the Market, Linux would still be a nifty project on University campuses, instead of the multi-billion-dollar industry that it is.
Don't be so foolish to beleive MS is letting anything.... It's not up to them, it's up to the product. If MS was even remotely able to let anything be done about it, it would have been done a long time ago, and Linux wouldn't be known. Linux is a solid product. They would serious need to convince companies like Cisco,IBM,HP to drop Linux. BUt that will never happen.
Not even M$ has the change to buy IBM and they are the biggest 'Linux' company out there.....
So Long and Thanks for all the Fish.
I have seen headlines about the linux revolution for a few years now.
I use linux at home and love it.
Wake me up when linux breaks double digit market share in the desktop world and then we can call it a revolution
I've been really thinking about the whole Linux gaining footing thing, and as much as everyone around here just LOVES XWindows and loves to say it's as usable as OS X or Windows, let's face it, in the eyes of most users it simply isn't.
Apple has taken FreeBSD/Darwin and built their own desktop environment around it. OS X is very usable according to most people. And even though there are many camps of people who will argue that Windows is more usable than OS X or vice versa, the one point most people will agree on is that OS X and Windows are both more usable than XWindows and the various window managers. I perosnally hate both KDE and Gnome, and thus use a mostly text BSD box, but I know I'm in the minority there, as well.
Here's what I've been thinking.
What's stopping someone from writing an entire environment like OS X from the ground up, around and on top of Linux, and creating an OS X like environment that is as complete and modern as either OS X or Windows?
I know everybody shudders at the thought of obsoleting their beloved X, but even some OS X users install and use X when they still feel they need it, but I think I'm just being realistic when I think hanging onto X is just overall the wrong strategy for putting Linux on the desktop. (Counter arguments exist, and will likely be in the many replies, and I don't entirely disagree with them, but...)
I really think this is an effort worth pursuing. A new desktop environment built to be the primary way that Linux is used. A Linux based graphical environment designed from the ground up to be a Desktop GUI, following in the footsteps of OSX/Aqua.
To make things easier (here's where many will disagree with me) one could work on such a program primarily focusing on modern hardware and esspecially modern video cards. Let's face it, ATI and NVidia run the show now days anyway.
These are just my thoughts, and I hope people will constructively discuss this possibility instead of throwing around a bunch of "No way, not possible, why bother, go to hell Apple/Microsoft lover" comments.
I like BSD, and I like OS X. I would like to see something similar done with Linux.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
Having RMS walk in in his St. Ignucius getup is enough to make anybody lose their lunch...not just the suit and tie crowd.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
I just had a knee-jerk thought. How is Linux a threat to anyone? Linux is freely available to almost anyone ... individuals or businesses.
:-)
The "playing field" is even because of this universal availability. Those that don't take advantage of this MAY find themselves at a disadvantage to those that do.
Linux isn't a threat because YOU choose NOT to use it in your business model. The real threat is a poor plan that doesn't use the tools and technologies FREELY available today.
Did that make any sense?
I read somewhere an interesting theory that companies (and organizations) that don't try to compete directly with Microsoft (plan their buisness around beating Billy) and just concentrate on making a good product end up succeeding. (Imagine that!).
One of Microsoft's tactics over the years is to bait companies into direct competition with them. Usually companies that take the bait lose.
As long as LINUX continues to improve NOT because of MS but because people are interested in making better software, then I think success will continue.
I'd imagine it's as if you were playing some game like raquetball or tennis and some dude is at the fence trying to get you to "compete" when you are perfectly content to play whatever you are playing, and get better.
Unfortunately, they tend to do this on the golf course with their other CEO, CIO, CFO, and CTO buddies, instead of asking the people who have to actually support the applications and systems. They want all the stuff that looks flashy, etc. The techies, unfortunately, then have to figure out ways to make the stuff work.
Many years ago, I went to a company where they wanted to have several applications talk to each other. Two of them ran on Solaris, two of them ran on Windows. One used Oracle as the back-end, another used DBASE. How did they come up with the combination of COTS stuff? They asked the users to pick which software package they wanted for which particular function. The problem is, nobody ever really evaluated what could be done with each of them. It turned out that one of the Windows apps couldn't be made to talk with anything else because of the memory control module. The database stuff it used wanted to do its own memory allocation, and it interfered with the TCP/IP sockets library's ability to do its necessary memory allocation. I didn't last long there, because I basically made my opinions known and they didn't want to hear that they made some really bad decisions.
When going for my RHCE, the instructor was telling us that RedHat basically came into existence because for Linux to be a viable business solution, companies wanted to be able to point fingers at someone to say, "You... FIX THIS!" They didn't want to file bug reports and wait for someone to get around to it. They wanted someone to be there at their beck-and-call, providing the necessary support. This kind of thinking is what actually helped Linux become a viable business solution.
OCO is Loco
1998: First Joe user goes online and most of the servers he hits are running Linux. He doesn't care.
~2000: Then Joe user goes out and buys a Tivo (or Tivo like) product. It runs Linux, again he doesn't care because it offers the apps he wants.
~2001: Then Joe user buys a new cell phone and it runs Linux. He doesn't care because it is cheap and gives him the functionality he needs.
1999-2004: Now over that time device drivers start to appear more frequently for Linux because of all the servers and appliances that need them....
2002-2004: Major players (Oracle, BEA, Novell, IBM, HP, Sun, heck all but Microsoft start to support their software on Linux servers.... Even Crystal reports now runs on Linux.
2004: Point of sale devices start to standardize on Linux....
2000-2005: Standard desktop applications start to become common on Linux. Apps like DVD burning, MP3 playing, Office, P2P, Web Browsing and some games become part of a standard Linux install.
2005-2006: Linux desktop market share grows to surpass that of new Apple Macintosh sales. This forces companies like Macromedia (Dreamweaver) to start seriously looking at offering a Linux version of their products.
2007-2008: New devices will start to ship Linux drivers and software with their products. These drivers and software will be more common than drivers and software offered for the Macintosh. Companies like Macromedia and Filemaker will reluctantly start to offer Linux versions of their software, but they will be downloadable only. They will go to great concerns to "protect" their software from being copied.
2010: The Linux desktop market share in the U.S. will be around 15 to 20%. Microsoft Longhorn will be released. At a 20% desktop marketshare OEM's will now start to offer Linux on every model of computer and have the quantity of scale needed to lower the cost of a new computer pre-loaded with Linux.
2011: Joe user will go to purchase a new machine. Machines will now cost almost nothing, and software cost will be the lions share of the total cost. The machine with Windows will cost more than the machine with Linux. Joe user will ask if both will do the job, and they will. Both will run his legacy apps. Joe user doesn't care, and buys the cheaper box. Microsoft will be forced to SIGNIFICANTLY lower their price of Windows and Office thus killing their profits.
2015-2016: Linux market share now soars to 50% and video game makers now target Linux first. Microsoft will start to lay people off.
2017: Duke Nukem Forever for Linux is released ahead of the Windows version by a year.
My point is this.... "IF" Linux gets a 10-15% marketshare of the desktops, the game is over for Windows. At that point they have a large enough marketshare that it will be very hard for any software vendor to ignor them. That is what scares Microsoft to death. A free competitor that is "good enough" cannot get that large for them to survive.
My second point is that this isn't going to happen overnight. Heck it isn't going to happen in the next 5 years. But look at how far Linux has come in just the last 5 years. It use to be that Joe user couldn't even use a nicely configured Linux box, now he can. He can probably even install SuSe or RedHat. If you installed Linux back in 1996, then you realize how far they have come. Think about that. In less than 10 years Linux has come from impossible for a noob to use - to an almost complete replacement to Windows. Now factor in that a lot more people are working on Linux than Windows and you begin to see what Microsoft is worried about. Yes they have 60+Billion in the bank. Now you know why they are doing that. They will need that money.
Their ONLY hope is to go after patents, and perhaps the "living room". If they loose this battle then they are in for a long and hard road ahead and they will need a HUGE amount of money to "get them by" until their next great idea comes along. I also expect them to dum
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.