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Cultural Blinders Lead to Nintendo Fallacy
obchrisj writes "A week long, unscientific poll on FileFront found 61% agreeing with the notion that Nintendo will soon be "going the way of Sega." In an editorial on their website, they ask Nintendo reps and industry analysts what the future of Nintendo really is, taking a glance at the DS, GameCube, and Revolution consoles. Slashdot recently reported on poor sales performance for Nintendo's GameCube. From the editorial: 'According to O'Rourke, Nintendo's U.S. market position has conditioned North American gamers to believe the company's global fortunes are equally down. Such "Nintendo is dying!" hysteria is largely a product of this cultural tunnel vision.'"
*Nintendo is dying.
Nintendo has made some really great games, the only thing lacking in their console as far as I'm concerned is internet multiplayer, but that's why I have my PC anyway.
Abroad, I think people are much more concerned with a good core single plater experience or in-the-same-room multiplayer. With titles like Mario Party, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, and Metroid Prime 2, I still can't think of a console I'd rather use to play against 3 of my friends.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
The same could theoretically be said of most gaming consoles (in my tiny little opinion) As a consumer, which do I choose? There are far too many! Which is good, which is crap?
I end up sticking with the PC simply because I can't answer the above question - besides that, the games are stupidly overpriced where I live - Piracy is rampant, PC games are priced not too far above their illegal counterparts. 1000 peso (About 15 us Dollars) will get pretty much most originals (minus the oversized empty box and manuals) - though they are original.
I dont believe any analyst as a rule of tomb some kinda make sense but most of them are innacurate and a big number of them are cluless and they are banking on the popularity of the product Nintendo is putting out to make some money talking about it, otherwise they would have no jobs.
,I dont play mario tennis or Mario smash , Because Mario for me is a hero not some normal fun playing guy.
The console wich is dying and on life support are Xbox , Game cubes may not outsale the Playstations , but its still a box wich come with many games people whant to play.
The Nintendo system of yester year whas great because it whas a great bundle , a good console with a great game or two , now and days they are a bit pricier and the game arent as fun , personnaly an Upgraded Pokemon game where you could build a 3000 level high Pokemeon wich could play online in some ladder game where people and yourself could play for money would be great.
A good game will always replace a game wich is more advanced , I still play marios brother 1-2-3 because they are fun to play
Basically Nintendo is aiming to please everyone , when they should concnetrate in giving the best consol with a Game people whant to play and they should stop diluting or trying and failing to bank on there former best Game.
I am a REAL American from Canada , not a wanna-be from the country , self called "last remaining superpower" "of America
Is it "beleaguered" already?
I am really glad that I invested in the shares of a certain "beleaguered" company a few years ago, when their shares were around 18$ (now around 70).
Maybe I should buy Nintendo stock now.
I don't need a signature.
Nintendo got caught in the middle of two of the world's largest hype machines, Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo is big, but those companies are huge in comparison. They had the ability to come out and market their systems in ways not possible before. And if you still believe the cube is for kiddies, then you too fell for the hype.
That being said, I don't think Nintendo is going the way of Sega. They are still way to profitable, for that to happen.
the cosmos in 20 words or less: thumbuki.com
I would have thought the percentage of Xboxes sold just to play pirated games or use as media centres is pretty small. At a guess, I'd say less than one percent. The attachment rate on the Xbox is somewhere around 7-8 titles*, which is pretty good, so certainly it doesn't seem that the chippers and mediacentre folks have made a particularly big impact.
* http://www.silicon-fusion.com/news/2350/
Aside from a few games, namely Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime 2, and that last Zelda game (4 swords or whatever), you don't see too much mainstream marketing for GameCube games. And even then, I think sometimes they miss the mark. The ads for MP2 were pretty lame. They focused on the fact that Samus is female and then showed like 5 seconds of actual gameplay. It's one thing to try to sell Extreme Beach Volleyball by playing up the naked chicks, but Metroid? Yeah she's a female, but its not really obvious in the gameplay and you never really see her in the game since its in first person perspective.
For the PS2 and Xbox, though, I see ads for even the most obscure games. That probably has a lot to do with the fact that those consoles have more third-party support. But as far as public perception goes, it just makes it seem like the GameCube isn't as good. Not to me, but I know a lot of people who just assume because they hardly see any commercials that there aren't any good games.
Everyone I know has a PS2. I know 2 people that have Xbox and (now) 2 people that have GameCube. After 2+ years or raving about Metroid Prime, Eternal Darkness, Zelda, and the Resident Evil games, I finally convinced one other person to get a GameCube. I think Resident Evil 4 was the one that did it. And deservedly so... It's an amazing game. But I can't blame Capcom for probably regretting the decision to go exclusive with the GameCube. You can safely assume that RE4 would sell twice as many copies on the PS2... which is why it's eventually coming out on Sony's console.
Even the game publishers/developers don't seem to have faith in the GameCube. And I'm not sure I do either. I have complete faith in Nintendos ability to make great games. I've consistently had all around better experiences with more GameCube games than anything else in the past couple years. But I'm really starting to agree that they're heading in the wrong direction and if they go too far, won't be able to come back.
Sinch
When I mention Resident Evil 4, and that it's Gamecube exclusive, most Xbox and PS2 owners become very surprised.
You're right. I am surprised. I'm surprised you haven't heard that Resident Evil 4 isn't a Gamecube exclusive any longer. It will also be coming out for the PS2.
Nintendo, with their boatloads of money from their new and old games (and enforcing their copyrights) is probably like their own Mario.
If they die, I'm sure they'll just drop offscreen and go down to 2 lives from 3.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Yeah, it will be coming out for the playstation, but only a year after it came out for cube. The release date according to gamefaqs.com is Q4, 2005. So I guess GTA: San Andreas isn't a PS2 exclusive, since it will eventually come out for X-Box?
If you had super powers, would you use them for good, or for awesome?
Purple console needs food badly! Gauntlet references aside, I think it's not all Nintendo's fault. It has plenty of good games available for the Gamecube, it's just that with the XBox and PS2 out there people aren't going to want to buy 3, and the purple box just doesn't look so appealing at first. It's got some great games, but it's going to be tough buying a silly little cube from Fry's while your friend walks out with a green and black console that looks like it devours worlds.
Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain.
It will also be coming out for the PS2.
In a year or so (so theoretically still an exclusive until then) but with crappier graphics and shittier load times.
The biggest problem that Nintendo has it this. In order to compete on Nintendo's system, you have to beat Nintendo itself. And that's hard. You have to beat Metriod Prime 1 and 2, you have to beat Smash Brothers, you have to beat Wind Waker, and so on. It's hard. So either you do a multi-platform series, just to make it a must-play, a big title.
But what the Gamecube is lacking is the big 3rd-party exclusives. But the ones that are there..well..they tend to be either big or small. Big games, like Resident Evil 4, or little games like Ikaragua seem to get the best return.
incidentally, i for one am tired of games involving overweight italian plumbers.
We have been hearing this for what...5 years or so. Nintendo is going the way of Sega the same way that Apple is going to way of Sega. Get over it people.
Yet they are as strong as they ever were.
I noticed that you misspelled the word "center" in your post. Twice, in fact.
... you insensitive clod! :)
The Tlog - a technology blog
Why would they trade in that part of the market share? They're making money off each console being sold. That's more than you can say about Sony and Microsoft.
It's so bright around here. -- Rest of the world
Guess it depends on your point of view. I knew RE4 for the PS2 was released later than GC, but when it is announced that a game is going to be on different systems it no longer seems exclusive to me. Personally, I am waiting for the X-Box version of San Andreas because I knew it was coming out for it as well. If that wasn't announced I would have bought it for the PS2 like I did the previous ones.
In a year or so (so theoretically still an exclusive until then) but with crappier graphics and shittier load times. The only reason games like this are still being ported on the PS2 is because of the martket share the console holds. The graphics just are not there on the PS2 never has been and I doubt they will be for the PS3.
If you're worried about Nintendo being #3 in the console race and possibly going the way of Sega, there is a way that you can help.
It's very simple: buy Nintendo games. Buy lots of them. Tell your friends how good they are and get them to try buying one, too. They're sure to be hooked after the first try.
Nintendo's biggest enemy seems to be Nintendo. One of the things that Nintendo did very well was market to kids. The problem is, now they have a bunch of people trained to equate Nintendo with kid's games. PS2, on the other hand, went after the late teen and young adult market. So many people are stuck with the Nintendo=Kids, PS2=Adults mentality. While this isn't really true anymore, Nintendo is stuck trying to undo the marketing of the past. Plus, the Nintendo 64 was a dud. I was one of the people to get one early on, I liked Super Mario 64, and had seen some adds for some interesting 3rd party games. Nintendo was screwed by the third party developers in some cases, and the games just didn't materialize for the N64. In the end, I think I owned about 4 games for thr system, because I couldn't find anything on the system which appealed to me. I finally bought a Playstation used, and got more games for it than I did for my N64. When the time to choose between the PS2 and the GameCube came along, I wasn't willing to touch another new Nintendo product, I got a PS2, and have been very happy with it.
Funny aside to that. I went to the E3 where Nintendo and MS were announcing their respective systems. At the time the PS2 looked like it was in trouble. All it had were a bunch of remakes and sequals to show. Then we walked into the Nintendo area, which was a teaming mass of people. We got to see such wonderful titiles as Super Smash Brothers, Pikman, Star Fox Adventures, Rouge Squadron (whatever incarnation), and Luigi's Haunted Mansion. It looked pretty good, though mostly aimed at kids. Lastly we hit the Xbox area, and got to see very little. They had some sort of skiing game and a water based shooter. The graphics were pretty but I just didn't see a killer game on it. The GameCube looked poised to win the war. Now I own a PS2 (which I thought to be the worst in show), the Xbox still has zero interest from me, and the GameCube is only now a consideration since I've watched a friend play Metroid Prime.
Somehow I don't think Nintendo is going anywhere, they've got a ton of cash, lots of brand recognition, and they are finally starting to win the battle against their previous image. Sure, they may go through a few slow years/systems, but I'm expecting that they will end up beating Microsoft in the end.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
I tend to agree that people equate Nintendo with kids. Hell, I think that the perception is actually somewhat correct. True, Nintendo has its grown up games, but not many. GTA3 is the reason why I bought my PS2. I want a grown up game complete with violence and cursing. As cute as Mario and a cute little cartoon Zelda is, it simply isn't what I want.
Maybe I should look a little harder, but as far as I can tell, Nintendo promotes cartoons. The few exceptions to the rule are FPS - which I would never buy on consol because I have a perfectly good computer with superior controls and graphics. When I think Nintendo, I think Pokemon, Mario, Donkey Kong, Star Fox, and a whole host of other cartoon games. Hell, each one of those games DID have a cartoon follow up on TV.
Games used to be for kids, but I think what has been proven in this new centaury is that games were for kids because kids picked them up the faster then anyone else. Now those kids are adults, and unlike normal toys, they didn't throw them out. People who grew up with games still like them. Not only do they still like them, but now that have a paycheck each week and the ability to spend significantly more on video games. I am not saying that video game markers should abandon the kids market, just that you would be a fool ignore all of the adults with too much money in their pockets when you make your games. If you want to appeal to adults, you need to make games for them. If people think of your consol and could never imagine playing GTA or some violently and vulgar game, chances are you have been branded a kids consol.
. . .retail has shown a great deal of favortism to PS2 and XBox, long before Cube fell to a distant 3rd
I can't speak for Wal-Mart or Best Buy, but at EB Nintendo paid to be EB's "VOM," or Vender of the Month, at least as much as Microsoft and many more times than Sony. I managed an EB when all the systems came out, and if there really was favoritism towards any particular system it was because it was selling well. Come end of school in May-June, the Gameboy games would get the most wall space. But come Christmas, Sony would.
Despite this, when I worked at EB the Gamecube remained inidiginous to the ever shrinking diehard Nintendo fans and parents of small kids. I should also say that in terms of retail reps, Nintendo's was always - across the board - the most clueless. This was true in every other district I had communication with. We knew more about Nintendo than their own reps. Microsoft and Sony at least had some interesting information when they stopped by.
I know at our store, we pushed Nintendo as much as we could. We would walk across the hall to the Barnie's Coffee to show how well the Wavebird worked. We held Smash Brother tournaments when it came out. Yet, it was obvious that people just weren't interested in the Gamecube.
Yes, everything is bought in retail as it is in grocery stores. Even ad space. If you think that Best Buy or EB give more ad or shelf space to MS and Sony because they have some sort of strange innate love for them, you're wrong. MS and Sony paid to have that full page ad, and Nintendo paid less to have that small corner. Even when they didn't buy shelf space in our store, shelf dedication followed store sales. If Nintendo had sold better, you can rest assured they would have had more shelf space.
You're overlaying a conspiratorial malevolent intention on retail when there is none, save perhaps a raw desire for profit.
Id say with the same graphics and only slightly larger load times. You're exaggerating.
frat house at gatech:
4 xboxes - 5 titles to each person
3 ps2's - 5 - 7 titles to each person
5 cubes - 10 - 15 titles to each person
1 person has an xbox live subscription.
60+ member frat, people on the rugby team to student govt leaders - lots of intramurals. this is also the target demographic. what does this tell you? various personal anecdotes mean jack shit when talking about console sales generally.
My Honors dorm (at another highly ranked engineering school) had: 6 GameCubes 2 XBoxes 1 PS2 1 PSone 1 N64 1 SNES 1 NES and GameCubes were by far the predominant social game system.
I, for one, doubt that any such "informal poll" ever took place anywhere but in the poster's mind.
Apparently you're blind.
Now - this is the definition of target deomgraphic. all age 18-25, Male
I'm sick of this target demographic bullshit. As if other people don't buy games. I have more games than probably anyone in your dorm, yet I don't fit your stupid demographic so I guess I don't count.
I'm also sick of this bullshit idea that girls don't play games. I asked my dad for a video game for christmas, and he gave it to my boyfriend. When I play my SP in public, people assume it a book. How the fuck does someone confuse an SP for a book? I don't fucking know. I just wish people would wake the fuck up and realize that not all gamers are "age 18-25, Male".
"What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
It's not called a target demographic because it's not true.
There are simply more people that are 18-25 and of the Male sex that are buying games and gaming systems. I'm always glad to see women gaming, and I have no doubt that women can be as involved in their gaming as men.
On the whole, however, there are more men that make up the console gaming market than women.
Karnal
Maybe instead of playing games, you should be paying more attention in your English classes.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
Id say with the same graphics and only slightly larger load times. You're exaggerating.
Apparently you've never played a gamecube.
Simple fact is that the marketing is targeted at that group. Companies dont need to sell to females - YET! - because the proportion is so small right now that it isnt worth the investment.
You want to change the demographics? Organize game nights, invite ppl who wouldn't normally play, and don't get angry if people are confused or dumbfounded.
All that means is there perception has changed, and they can't handle it at that moment.
Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
Not in any non-Japanese language (in North America, PAL territories, etc.), it won't. Please enjoy your wait for the PS2 version of Tales of Symphonia too, while you're at it.
Geez, guys, at least try to keep up with the news.
If I poll forums.nintendo.com and write an editorial how Xbox is teh d00med, can I get it posted?
SAILING MISHAP
3 GC's. All purchased for either Metroid, Zelda, Or Smashbros. No one with more than 5 games, all franchises. 2 Have gotten RE4 - 1 is waiting for the PS2 Version.
That right there throws your entire post into doubt. What kind of IDIOT would wait for the PS2 version of Resident Evil 4 when he already owns a Gamecube? If this is really a true story (which I doubt), you should go beat some sense into him.
The Playstation 2 is outselling the Gamecube by an order of magnitude.
For one thing, GameCube consoles are reported to have better MTBF than PlayStation 2 consoles, so a lot of PS2 hardware purchases are replacements for broken PS2 consoles. For another, Sony recently introduced a new thinner PS2 console nicknamed the PStwo.
Yeah I can see it now...
"Hey lemme play MGS-whatever." "Screw you I was here first playing/staring at FF10-2." "Up yours, I'm gonna get my own PS2." "Go play on that messed up PS2 system, Bill said it runs Linux so its probably as stupid as you." (Fistfight breaks out)
FileFront had a poll and produced a result and I am supposed to take it as gospel why exactly?
I've never heard of FileFront before and I'm quite the internet junkie so how in any way what so ever do they represent Nintendo's marketshare? Nintendo's target market isn't Slashdotters and the like and I'm sorry folks but we're in the minority, just think Pokemon.
In the drops - An Aussie's musings on all things cycling
Now for the next survey: look out at the parking lot and see how many of the cars you see are *ahem* "modified" Honda Civics.
So my console of choice isn't the console of choice for folks who don't practice personal hygene now that mommy and daddy aren't around to make them do it, drink until alcohol poisoning and think joining a fraternity is a good idea. Like with Acclaim, I think I can handle the loss.
Sony and Microsoft's fortunes may fluctuate as they fight each other, but Nintendo will always have that core group of gamers. They're like the Apple of the console world. (They even have their iPod-like success story, the Gameboy Advance.)
I do think that Nintendo's next console needs to be something special, and that they should diversify into new game series in addition to continuing the old ones. Animal Crossing and Pikmin/Pikmin 2 are their two major contributions to gaming this generation, both amazing but not blockbusters.
That doesn't change the fact that videogames (including consoles) still make several billion dollars more in the US every year. Japanese game sales peaked at an impressive $7 billion back in 1997, but have declined heavily and consistently since then ($4.1 billion back in 2003). Japan hasn't been #1 in videogame sales for at least four years now (essentially this whole console generation) - so what were you saying about "cultural blindness" again?
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
Now - this is the definition of target deomgraphic. all age 18-25, Male, Variety of Genres, online and single player, high speed, network play all available.
So you're saying that Nintendo are dying becaues they aren't targeting a demographic which Sony has already won over? Where's the market? Nintendo are targeting two markets, the 25 market with the nostalgic games.
But you're view of the games is correct, maybe that's what's killing Nintendo. It's hard to pirate a Nintendo game and even if it weren't (us) Nintendo fanboys respect Nintendo too much to rip them off. How many of those PS1/2 titles are legal copies?
Now, Unless the N figures out how to grow up and provide content to Mature...
By mature I'm going to assume you mean Mature in an immature sense and will point to Conkers Bad Fur Day (although that was N64 and Rare are no longer with Nintendo....).
It dosent matter how silly the online chats are - the fact is online exists for the interaction. WTF? You live in a dorm... Nintendo is king of local multiplayer gaming... why do you want to go online when you appear to have, what, at least 30 people? SSB:M online would suck, it's a game for mocking someone next to you. To quote Jim Merrick from Edge 143 'It's because I'm in the same room as you and I can sense your pain. I can taunt you and revel in my victory with you. And I lose a lot of that in an online environment'. Nintendo have different concepts of fun, just as different gamers do.
Hmmmm.... Let's do a quick wip around of my friends (modern) consoles. Most have PS2's, some have GCs and 2 have XBoxs (though one was bought purely to be modded). So on this basis Sony is clearly a winner, but they all have an original or colour Gameboy and an Advance or SP. Even my friend who doesn't own a TV has a Gameboy....
In any case I'm getting close to ranting. Just remember that because people you know aren't interested in something, doesn't mean that other people aren't. Nintendo have survived a lot of ups and downs... they won't go too easily.
According to them it was the next "Grand Theft Auto." At least that's what they told every single person who walked into the store when I was there.
Sounds like VOM to me. Certainly gag me, in the gag me of corporate culture kind of way - but the clerks are just people making sucky wages like everyone else. Watch come Spring Break and when school lets out for summer, and the gameboy game section will usually take the front of the store for about 2-4 weeks. In the meantime, here's how to tell VOM at an EB:
* first display gondola is filled with a certain game or publisher
* at least one of the windows (the "primary" window usually) is dedicated to that publisher or game
* there is a trade-in promotion dedicated to that game or publisher
* they try to push that game as the next "Grand Theft Auto." =)
Actually, if it's the end of the month and you go in wanting that VOM game, the clerks are probably much more likely to manipulate the trade in system to swing you credit if you get that game. You know, if you don't mind getting $5 trade in for a game you just paid $50 for.