Slashdot Mirror
Firefox Lead Now Working For Google
zmarties writes "In a very
low key announcement on his blog, Ben Goodger, lead developer for
Firefox, has announce that effective from a couple of weeks ago, he has become a Google employee. In practice his day to day job won't change that much, in that he will still lead Firefox through its forthcoming releases, but with Google paying his wages, we can be sure that new and interesting overlap between the Mozilla Foundation's browsers and Google's services are sure to develop."
About all the press coverage Blake Ross has been getting for Firefox... ABC, Wired, the Playgirl spread, etc.
... that Firefox was due for another name change.
(yes, I know it's just the lead - laugh.)
cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
really does pay off!
I'm not sure how to think about this. To be fair, I use both quite extensively, and I love the Google search toolbar in Firefox, but I can't help wonder about any conflicts of interest that may arise...
I trust both companies...but have learned that in computer technology, trust can only be trusted so far...
Look what happened to Transmeta after they "sponsored" Linus.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
With the string of announcements of smart moves over the last few days why is the share price not soaring?
UK Laptops
I'm sure this story will generate a slew of positive responses about Google supporting the Open Source Community, and how Linux is one of the technologies they rely upon. there will be some concern, but not much.
What I'm wondering, is how would the Slashdot community respond if it were Microsoft doing the hiring, and THEY were promising Ben's day to day tasks wouldn't change much.
How would people react?
What would be the theories of WHY Microsoft would be supporting a Firefox developer?
Let's set aside the arguments about why this is an implausible scenario and the obvious Microsoft bashing and ask, aside from the exceptions above, what would be the reaction to such an announcement?
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Yes, there are numerous articles and such in the past that have mentioned that most Google engineers get 10% of free time to devote to their own projects.
Orkut was born this way, as well as Google Sets and likely numerous other projects.
Google toolbar like... https://addons.update.mozilla.org/extensions/morei nfo.php?application=firefox&version=0.9&os=Windows &category=Search%20Tools&numpg=10&id=33
So the more FireFox users there are, the more Google users there are. I don't see anything mysterious about this move by Google. It's really in their financial interest, and not just because of the PR.
Firefox has always (since 0.1) had a Google Toolbar extension--not that find you need it as its built-in search functionality is so good.
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
Alcohol and Calculus don't mix. Don't drink and derive.
How about interesting XUL based interfaes for GMail, Froogle, Orkut etc. A simple browser detect determines if you have Firefox/Mozilla, and if you do it gives you the XUL version... if not you get the same ordinary version you get now.
Entirely possible, and could be very cool if done well, but to be honest I see it as unlikely.
Jedidiah.
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
So this means the Google will get the features it wants and to hell with everyone else, including standards compliance which seems to be taken a back seat these days.
I've never done so before, but this comment prompted me to run the basic main Google page through the w3c validator; the results were suprising. It's such a simple page; why not take the (minimal!) time necessary to code proper HTML?! Yikes. I didn't expect that level of sloppiness.
(Yes, my personal page validates just fine, thanks (though some subpages may not, given the age of a lot of the code, and the multiple generations of sites the content pages have churned through... After I graduate and pass the Bar, maybe I'll have time to go back and fix them...)
geek. lawyer.
I think you have an overly pessimistic view of human nature. I only do what I desire to do, but does my desire make it selfish? If I desire to help the poor, is that selfish? If it is, then calling something "selfish" is empty.
Even allowing that Google may have a monetary incentive to hire a chief Mozilla developer, I don't see what the problem is. At this point, Google needs an alternative browser to keep Microsoft in check. Supporters of Free Software also desire that IE marketshare should drop, and that more open alternatives (such as FireFox) should take the slack. The interests of a "selfish" corporation and Free Software hippies are aligned.
There's no guarantee that Google won't turn "evil" in the future. But let's judge them on things they have done, rather than what they might do.
Please note that I am not totally pro-Google. I have issues with their acquiescence to censorship of totalitarian regimes. But this action doesn't bother me, and I don't see why it should.
If this isn't a conflict of interest I don't know what is..
I REALLY hope they stick to the "Do no Evil", because with this sort of move, they have the oppertunity to be either very very _good_ or just as easily be very very _evil_.
Then again.. its Open Sourced... so if google try anything even slightly askew, the code will be forked or better yet just plain rejected.
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
I guess Dave Hyatt never did pay the $50 to Ben. So he had to leave for Google.
Mozilla Bug #52094 "Hyatt should give ben $50"Two Roommates and a Boyfriend, updates Monday, Wednesday, and Friday
Well let's hope that Microsoft will first sponsor someone to work on internet explorer...
Why are you scared? This is free software. If Google tries to subvert the aim of FireFox, users can just fork it and take the development in a different direction. Open software is held together by the community behind it. If you try to act counter to that community, the community, and thus the software, will leave you behind. The worst that happens is that a developer is lost to the interests of a particular corporation and no longer works on the main branch of FireFox. But that seems unlikely to me, as Google knows trying to subvert FireFox to be GoogleFox or whatever would be counterproductive. All they really want, I imagine, is an alternative to IE so that users can choose Google without it being integrated like MSN Search is in IE.
You are very right to ask "What does Google get out of this relationship?" The answer, in this case, is much more simple and benign. It is a benefit to Google to have a healthy competitor for IE. Especially since MSN's search utility is their primary competitor. MS could just as easily make some IE only enhancements to MSN (i.e., ActiveX controls for context-based searching or something). This is more difficult for Google to do since they remain forced to support IE. They can't add features to Firefox and lock out IE since the vast majority of their market base still uses IE. If and when that changes, a closer look at the Google/Firefox relationship will be warranted. As of right now it's just a way for google to try to maintain a level playing field with MS.
Google are the new MS, forming links with good technology and talent, then manipulating it for their own selfish needs.
Trust me Google are the new evil.
Really? Which proprietary formats are they attempting to lock people in to at the expense of open and freely-exchangable standards? Which competitors are they attempting to destroy through anti-competitive contract chicanery which keeps them from getting a toe-hold in the market? What long winded EULAs are they using to deny fundamental consumer rights like resale to the consumers who purchase their products? What DRM platforms are the pushing with the ill-concealed intention of locking all competitors out of the x86 hardware platform? What annoying validation systems are they integrating that limit the purchaser to a certain number of hardware upgrades before they get locked out of their own software?
I'm waiting.
Firefox's lead developer is now a paid employee of Google. Mostly what they want is a better Firefox that can compete with Explorer, and make the web as a whole more standards compliant. This will decrease people's reliance on Windows, and make the web more of a platform. Google is, so far, the best developer on the web platform.
And honestly, if the project starts to suck, either Goodger will leave Google and find another sponsor, or the project will fork, and Google's version won't be the one known as Firefox. That would be bad for Google, and render the whole exercise pointless.
It may be a "conflict of interest," but that doesn't mean it will be bad. Google is an arrogant corporation (not in a bad way), and they think that with a level playing field, they will kick the a** of MS and everybody else. They want Firefox to level the playing field so they can win. The worst possible outcome would be for Firefox to become Google-optimized at the expense of how it works on thee rest of the web; that will hurt Firefox & Google.
Don't worry who's paying the bills; worry about the code he generates, and be happy that he's being paid to work on Firefox, which simply ensures that he'll continue to work on it.
Ben Goodger is "just" the lead developer, not to take anything from his contributions to the Firefox project, but the project will go on even when he work for another employer or "turn evil" as some seems to think.
The open source model is not a dictatorship, especially on a large project like mozilla/firefox, not one single person has complete control over everything.
The news of Mr Goodger change of employer is no more shocking than programmers from different countries/companies contribute code to various open source projects. There is no "hidden agenda" or "conflict of interest".
Anyone that has concern about this, become a developer: http://www.mozilla.org/developer/
Codeala - Just another mindless drone
Yeah, but just think of how hard it will be to find a name that's not taken already! ;)
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Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
This is an example of an interesting trend.
Companies are starting to hire people who make a name for themselves while working on open source projects. This makes sense on several levels.
The developer has proven themselves in an environment where capability is obvious, transparent, and peer reviewed. Try getting that out of a resume. They are hiring a known.
The company gets to use that person's *fame*/name as a marketing tool.
The developer is probably more willing to put in the extra hours because they must enjoy coding to spend so much spare time doing it.
This helps the open source movement a well. If new developers get out and try to earn a name, they'll probably start putting more effort if they think their code might get them a good job. They might take the peer review more seriously.
as well, I'll keep dreaming...
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
Google is known for trying to attract the best people, not the best products. I suspect they were hiring the brain, not the browser.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
This is only good news.
Firefox is already too intertwined with Google.
To remove Google as the default search engine in the search bar you have to manually delete the files, whereas adding engines is integrated.
And to remove Google as the engine that is used when you use the "Search Web for" context menu option you have change some config file that is not easy to find. I've searched through the Firefox directories(install and profiles) for occurences of "google," and there are many occurences, but I could not find something that looked like it would be it. I can not find information on how to do this from the "Mozilla KnowledgeBase," although I don't deny that it may exist. The help files are of course totally useless.
Why this assumption that no one would use anything but Google for searching? I my opinion Alltheweb is a far superior search engine.
I'm not suggesting this has anything to do with Google pushing for these features. Saying merely what I said.
Not to be naive, but... Just because the guy is working for Google doesn't necessarily mean that Google is now in charge of Firefox. There are plenty of examples of software projects that are not company owned, but in which companies support development, since said companies benefit from both a good product and the karma that comes with supporting good software, especially that they don't own. Furthermore, I doubt too many of us are paid to cruise slashdot, or write the programs we write -- we should wish him the best of luck, and congratulate him on finding somebody to pay him for what he's already doing well!
Open source, free, community projects and gigantic, multinational corporations do not mix.
IBM, anyone? There is a good way and a bad way to mix open source and a big corporation. IBM does it right, Apple does it right. I don't know what you're so worried about.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
Because the UI to google is a web browser, so it might be slightly useful to them to have anither person on staff who knows browsers really well.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
- Google's already somewhat integrated into Firefox (search bar, Firefox Start). As long as that stays the same, it's in their best interest to keep Firefox going.
- Google runs all of its services over the Web. They don't want Microsoft to run the Web, because then Microsoft will destroy them. Hence, it's in their best interest to keep Firefox going.
- They really are planning a browser based on Firefox, and they want the Firefox lead around to make sure they don't fuck it up.
- They're going to rename Firefox to Gbrowser, add twenty links to Google properties, and sell your grandmother into slavery.
Personally, my money's on 1 and 2, and maybe 3.Hey, you try to find an open nick these days!
Type about:config in the url to bring up the config then in the filter field type search. That will list the relevant config settings I think. I had trouble finding any good explaination for all the settings in the config. I wish they had made an little info button or alt hover text text for each setting.
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