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All Emulation is Illegal

jvalenzu writes "Matt Matthews is at it again! The venerable owner of curmudgeongamer.com has posted his latest missive, All Emulation is Illegal." From the article: "Now, if this is how we interpret the law, then practically every use of a videogame system emulator is illegal. Even a user who dumps the contents of a videogame cartridge for an Atari 2600 game he owns to a ROM file cannot use that ROM file with an emulator unless the original's loss requires resorting to the archival copy. If true, then even my attempt to stay legal by buying games and only then using an emulator to play them is way out of bounds."

111 comments

  1. His argument in a nutshell by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, that seems rather straightforward and restrictive. That [rom] file is for archival purposes only. Unless the definition is more flexible than it appears, that means the owner of an original may make a a copy and that copy cannot be used unless the original is destroyed or damaged. (Perhaps even that is reading too much into it?) So as long as you have an original, that copy should be sitting somewhere safe until needed to replace the original, should that event ever arise.

    The law in question:

    ...that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only

    Basically, if you interpret "archival purposes" as "keeping it unused until your original breaks down and dies," then all emulation is legal.

    However, that's a bunch of crap. I have a giant archive of files on my computer--it's called a filesystem. Anyone ever go to a library and check out their periodical archives? You don't have to wait untel every copy of a given newspaper is destroyed to use it.

    --
    Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
    1. Re:His argument in a nutshell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. This same interpretation would also make it illegal to copy music from your legally-owned CDs to play on your computer or a portable device.

    2. Re:His argument in a nutshell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're asking why the section of copyright law regarding computer programs doesn't apply to newspaper. Think about it.

      Also libraries have their own rights under copyright law separate from individuals. So they're not bound by the same rules.

    3. Re:His argument in a nutshell by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 1

      I'm talking about the definition of "archive."

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
  2. Re:Who's this guy anyway? by MilenCent · · Score: 1

    I think he'll be interested to hear that he's "at it again."

  3. Yeah, except... by Seehund · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article author hypothesises around an example where he owns a copy of a C-64 game, and whether or not it's legal to run said copy under emulation. He thinks this is illegal, due to the following US (I presume) legislation:

    " (a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.-- Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

    (1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
    (2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.


    The bold text is his emphasis.

    He seems to have missed provision (1) entirely!
    If you live under DMCA rule, just claim your C-64, your Datassette, or your 1541 floppydisk drive are broken...

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    Help savingAmigaOS and a free PowerPC market
    1. Re:Yeah, except... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Read the comments. He says that provision refers to loading a copy into RAM, like loading a program into RAM on a Windows computer. In short, two copies can be made from the original: one in RAM (from original to run program on computer) and one archive (replacement in case of failure), neither made from the other.

    2. Re:Yeah, except... by SoCalEd · · Score: 1

      "Just claim your C-64, your Datassette, or your 1541 floppydisk drive are broken..."

      Probably not in the case of the C-64 itself.

      Provision (1) says that the software must be used in conjunction with a machine. If the computer was broken then perhaps you could use backed up bios, etc. but the machine that uses the archived software is the C-64 itself.

      --
      Insert witty comment *here*. I'm fresh out of wit...
    3. Re:Yeah, except... by barawn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Read the comments. He says that provision refers to loading a copy into RAM, like loading a program into RAM on a Windows computer. In short, two copies can be made from the original: one in RAM (from original to run program on computer) and one archive (replacement in case of failure), neither made from the other.

      He didn't look too closely, then.

      It never says that you're restricted to using the program on one machine. Since copying the game in a ROM is a prerequisite to playing the game in an emulator, it falls under provision 1.

      It's exactly akin to making a copy in RAM, because it's required to make a copy to use it on the computer. Incidentally, it never says that only 1 copy can be made, as well. You can make as many as you want.

    4. Re:Yeah, except... by Seehund · · Score: 1

      Yes, and read e.g. akawaka's reply to his comment:
      "I can't help but feel that you are attaching your own personal meaning to the first clause to
      satisfy your argument."


      That law regulates "Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy".

      If a program is loaded into RAM in order to be executed, it is not the Owner of Copy who is doing this, but the computer (and/or the "copied" software).

      Just look at the USC definition of "copy":
      "''Copies'' are material objects, other than phonorecords, in which a work is fixed by any method now known or later developed, and from which the work can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. The term ''copies'' includes the material object, other than a phonorecord, in which the work is first fixed."

      Where "fixed" is defined as:
      A work is ''fixed'' in a tangible medium of expression when its embodiment in a copy or phonorecord, by or under the authority of the author, is sufficiently permanent or stable to permit it to be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated for a period of more than transitory duration. A work consisting of sounds, images, or both, that are being transmitted, is ''fixed'' for purposes of this title if a fixation of the work is being made simultaneously with its transmission."

      Seriously, if temporary "internal" processing by a computer or a program in order to run a program is considered "copying", then there's not much legal software around, whether the hardware is emulated or not. This is all sensationalism based on one person's hairsplitting IMO.

      --
      Help savingAmigaOS and a free PowerPC market
    5. Re:Yeah, except... by Seehund · · Score: 1

      ... whether the hardware is emulated or not.

      Oops. Insert a missing "regardless of" in front of that.

      --
      Help savingAmigaOS and a free PowerPC market
    6. Re:Yeah, except... by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that it is also illegal to use software on a newer machine that happens to be backward compatable?

      Don't assume that "machine" implys a physical object. The "machine" could be a virtual device running on some other hardware (AKA an emulator).

    7. Re:Yeah, except... by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 1
      It never says that you're restricted to using the program on one machine. Since copying the game in a ROM is a prerequisite to playing the game in an emulator, it falls under provision 1. It's exactly akin to making a copy in RAM, because it's required to make a copy to use it on the computer.
      Aw, you beat me to it! That's exactly what I was going to say.

      Now, to use his example, if his PC could read a C64 formatted 5 1/4" floppy disk, then he wouldn't need the D64 file, he could just play the game via the emulator by putting his legal copy of the disk into his PC. But since he can't do that, he has to use the D64 file. Nothing illegal about that! (IANAL) It becomes illegal in the case where you don't own the orginal disk, which is how everyone but Matt Matthews will continue to opperate until a court tells us otherwise.

      --
      If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
    8. Re:Yeah, except... by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      "...conjunction with a machine."

      Not ...conjunction with teh machine originally intended to run the program.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    9. Re:Yeah, except... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is Slashdot. Why not go all out and stick an "irregardless" in there?

    10. Re:Yeah, except... by p7 · · Score: 1

      And that is where his whole argument falls apart. IANAL, but the first clause is to allow you to take measures to ensure that you can use your legally licensed software when you can't use the original. For example this clause allows you to copy the program from 5.25 inch diskettes to 3.5 inch disks so you can run the program on a machine without a 5.25 Inch disk drive.

      His interpretation, brings into question the legality of installing software on a hard drive. He seems to be of the opinion that the physical media is the copyrighted material and that just isn't so.

      I did not see any mention in the copyright code detailing restrictions on how you access the copyrighted material. Take a record for instance. The mainstream way to access the sound encoded on the disk is by using a record player. Does that make it illegal to scan your records to play them?
      http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~springer/

      In other words, Emulation is in no way restricted by the law he quotes, since we could use the original Cartridge if we had an appropriate reader. This only leaves a question of what the legality of backing up the program.

    11. Re:Yeah, except... by Sparr0 · · Score: 1

      Where "fixed" is defined as:
      A work is ''fixed'' in a tangible medium of expression when its embodiment in a copy or phonorecord, by or under the authority of the author, is sufficiently permanent or stable to permit it to be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated for a period of more than transitory duration. A work consisting of sounds, images, or both, that are being transmitted, is ''fixed'' for purposes of this title if a fixation of the work is being made simultaneously with its transmission."


      bold added. this is the provision that makes "copies" in RAM while running the program legal.
    12. Re:Yeah, except... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=machine says "# A system or device, such as a computer, that performs or assists in the performance of a human task: The machine is down. "

      If playing the game is a human task (using the software), then a machine is any system which facilitates this!

    13. Re:Yeah, except... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He says that provision refers to loading a copy into RAM, like loading a program into RAM on a Windows computer.

      So it's fine to run software, but if the memory the software is running in is swapped out to disk, suddenly I'm violating the law? Nope, sounds to me like it has to be okay to have your "essential copy" resident on the hard disk...

    14. Re:Yeah, except... by ikkonoishi · · Score: 3, Insightful
      He also neglects.

      http://www.copyright.gov/1201/


      On October 28, 2003, the Librarian of Congress, on the recommendation of the Register of Copyrights, announced the classes of works subject to the exemption from the prohibition against circumvention of technological measures that control access to copyrighted works. The four classes of works exempted are:

      (1) Compilations consisting of lists of Internet locations blocked by commercially marketed filtering software applications that are intended to prevent access to domains, websites or portions of websites, but not including lists of Internet locations blocked by software applications that operate exclusively to protect against damage to a computer or computer network or lists of Internet locations blocked by software applications that operate exclusively to prevent receipt of email.

      (2) Computer programs protected by dongles that prevent access due to malfunction or damage and which are obsolete.


      (3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.


      (4) Literary works distributed in ebook format when all existing ebook editions of the work (including digital text editions made available by authorized entities) contain access controls that prevent the enabling of the ebook's read-aloud function and that prevent the enabling of screen readers to render the text into a specialized format.
    15. Re:Yeah, except... by ikkonoishi · · Score: 1

      The DMCA exemptions explicitly allow emulation of video game systems that are no longer manufactured or widely availible.

    16. Re:Yeah, except... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One problem is he is looking only at the law. Laws are kinda open to intrepetation. Such intrepetation is called case law. And no where do I see any case cites that prove his point. Essentially we have what appears to be a non lawyer throwing out his 2 cents about the law. Its about worth as much as my own intrepetation of the law.

      First of all, I would like to see someone prove damages. Secondly Id like to see like cases on this. From my understanding the DMCA has few case cites, and what exists is largely contradictory.

      *IF* it is contradictory, then the previous law/treaty would apply, and under fair use provisions, the act he describes would be legal(There's ample case law pertaining to libraries and student use that would be solid)

    17. Re:Yeah, except... by bedessen · · Score: 1

      But that is about copy protection schemes, not about making copies. Basic copyright law determines how you can make copies, and the DMCA expands on that to make it a crime to circumvent measures meant to protect copyright. The above clarification relaxes the prohibition on circumventing copy-protection measures but it says nothing about basic copyright law, which is at the heart of the story author's premise.

    18. Re:Yeah, except... by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1


      If a program is loaded into RAM in order to be executed, it is not the Owner of Copy who is doing this, but the computer


      That's an insane interpretation. For legal purposes, machines and computers have no willpower, and are instead just tools of people who actually do things. That claim makes almost as much sense as a murderer excusing himself with: "I didn't kill anyone! Only my rifle did, so I didn't break any laws!"

      Seriously, if temporary "internal" processing by a computer or a program in order to run a program is considered "copying", then there's not much legal software around

      Note that in the UK, that interpretation is correct. Britons cannot legally execute software without the copyright holder explicitly granting license to load it into RAM and CPU registers.

  4. He missed the first part by spectral · · Score: 3, Interesting

    (a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.-- Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:
    (1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
    (2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.
    (emphasis from the article)

    Ok, so why can't it be under section 1? Making the copy of the game is essential since I no longer own a Commodore 64, NES, SNES or whatever, even though the games are all sitting on the shelf behind me.

    1. Re:He missed the first part by spectral · · Score: 1

      Notice the timestamps are only one minute apart to the post above mine. Not intentionally redundant here, just ignore this post and go to the one above.. :)

    2. Re:He missed the first part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Ok, so why can't it be under section 1?"

      Perhaps the author doesn't understand the difference between "and" and "or"

  5. Uh oh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been screwed since I learned how to download roms 9 years ago....

  6. virtual pc by i621148 · · Score: 1

    so what about vm ware and also the new breed of IBM-Apple chips for blade servers?

  7. It's allowed... by dutt · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's allowed to emulate games under Swedish law and therefore I'll continue to do it until I'm proven wrong.

    Remember there isn't any world law, therefore only the country you reside in makes the rules for you. No one else.

    1. Re:It's allowed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're working on that. Give us a while, we're still bogged down in Iraq and likely will wind up in Iran soon.

      But don't worry, you're on the list - somewhere.

    2. Re:It's allowed... by Nerd+Cooties · · Score: 1

      I think they are right after those damn Canadians.

      --
      I support the 2nd Amendment, the right to keep and arm bears!
    3. Re:It's allowed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so shortsighted....

    4. Re:It's allowed... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      We'll come liberate Sweden next. Your corporations are horribly repressed by these copyright laws, this must stop.

      - The United States of America, making the world safe for Corporate interests since 1776.

  8. Destroy the original by luciofm · · Score: 0

    Well, buy a game, create a copy then destroy de original, or just scratch the cd to make it unusable...

    Finally you are using a legal copy...

    1. Re:Destroy the original by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or just don't give a shit. Who the fuck is going to arrest you for playing a game that you own, even if it is a backup copy emulated on a PC. Please people, there are much bigger fish to fry.

  9. same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by orion41us · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You do not own the movie/music/game you buy. You pay for the right to use. Essentially a limited non-transferable (is some cases) license. Which are most cases is specific to individual package.... i.e. if I own the star wars dvd's that does not give me the right to download the xvid versions.

    It's bs, but that's how you can get the best-bang-for the buck if your a media company.

    1. Re:same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by barawn · · Score: 2, Informative

      You do not own the movie/music/game you buy. You pay for the right to use. Essentially a limited non-transferable (is some cases) license. Which are most cases is specific to individual package.... i.e. if I own the star wars dvd's that does not give me the right to download the xvid versions.

      Except that the only right that a copyright holder has is the right of first sale, and no others. That is, once they give that copy to you, they can't prevent you from doing whatever you want with it - other than making a copy.

      The additional provisions for computer programs were added because the object copyrighted is not physical - so copying is necessary in several instances. It would be nice to extend the fair use rights to media files as well, so then you could convert your Star Wars DVDs into XviD versions, and then I seriously doubt any court would bother if you downloaded it instead of converting it yourself.

      But right now, you can, for instance, copy a computer program from a disk to a hard drive to use it. You can therefore copy a ROM from a game cart to use it. He completely misread the first provision.

    2. Re:same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by GigsVT · · Score: 2, Informative

      Since when?

      Copyright law makes no such claims. When you buy something copyrighted, you own that copy of it. You may not make further copies of it, except as provided for in the laws, but other than that, there's no restriction on how you use it.

      There is no "license". It's sold under "All rights reserved".

      The first sale doctrine says you can do whatever the hell you want with your copy, including selling it to someone else. No company can take that away from you, except in some cases with software under the UCITA, in the states where that has passed.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    3. Re:same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      I seriously doubt any court would bother if you downloaded it instead of converting it yourself.

      This was the heart of the mp3.com case. Mp3.com had encoded thousands of CDs and if you proved you owned it by putting the CD in your CDROM, you could then download the MP3 version of it.

      Mp3.com lost, because they used really silly defenses that didn't have a snowball's chance in hell. Unfortunatly their bumbling does somewhat set a precedent.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    4. Re:same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're right. That is bullshit.

      When you buy, for example, the Star Wars movies on DVD, you own the copy, i.e. the DVDs. No one owns the creative works; they're unownable. Lucasfilm (or someone) owns the copyright that pertains to the works.

      Barring some actual contract (which doesn't appear to exist with regards to these movies) you own the copy absolutely as personal property.

      This is inclusive of a right to use, but it is equally as unlimited and transferable a right as your right to use any piece of personal property.

      The law may limit your use of it, but that doesn't diminish your ownership or alter the nature of the transaction by which you bought it. The law says I can't drive 100mph in a school zone, but I own my car. The law says I can't murder people with my kitchen knives, but I am the only person in the world with a property interest in them.

      The law does say that you can't download the Star Wars movies, but that has nothing to do with your owning copies of them. Once the copyright expires on them, the law will not care any longer. Likewise, it will not care any longer as to what you do with the copies you bought.

      If you were right -- you're not -- then it would continue to care, since you didn't magically get more rights.

      I swear, I cannot figure out why the hell so many apparently intelligent people manage to overcomplicate and fuck up the very simple idea that when you buy stuff you own it.

      I blame whatever asshole came up with EULAs. They're amazingly rare and totally at odds with how things operate by default. They're of dubious enforcibility and appear to have no real merit given copyright law as it stands. We really ought to ban them with only minor exceptions.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    5. Re:same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that the only right that a copyright holder has is the right of first sale, and no others. That is, once they give that copy to you, they can't prevent you from doing whatever you want with it - other than making a copy.

      Not only are you wrong, you contradict yourself. Go read 17 USC 106 for the core rights of copyright holders. Remember that they're negative -- they are rights to exclude others, not rights to actually do.

      The additional provisions for computer programs were added because the object copyrighted is not physical

      Copyrightable works are never tangible. It is copies that are tangible, but a mere copy isn't copyrightable; just the work within.

      It would be nice to extend the fair use rights to media files as well

      Any kind of use can be a fair use. But no use is necessarily a fair use. The fair use factors are at 17 USC 107. If, based on an analysis of those factors, ripping movies on DVD to xvids is fair, then it's fair. The right implicated there is reproduction, btw. But each set of circumstances has to be considered anew. So the mere fact that it might be fair to rip things yourself does not mean that distributing rips to others, and downloading rips from others, would be fair. In fact, they probably aren't, though of course, it depends.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    6. Re:same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      > The law does say that you can't download the Star Wars movies, but that has
      > nothing to do with your owning copies of them.

      Note that nobody has EVER been prosecuted for downloading content (kiddie porn not withstanding). It is ONLY the offering for download or otherwise distributing content that people have been prosecuted for.

      In fact, the way I have read the law, and seen it described, is that once you have a copy, you have it. Regardless of how you aquired it (legal copy, bootleg, download etc... ), you have the same legal rights to use it.

      Unless someone else is familiar with a provision in the law that I havn't seen. Still there is absolutly no precident or statue which I am aware of that would lead me to believe there is anything against the law to posessing media which contains copyrighted works depenant upon how they came to be on said media.

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    7. Re:same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Note that nobody has EVER been prosecuted for downloading content

      So? That doesn't mean that no one can be. Many suits have established that people who download copyrighted works without authorization are infringers. It is not subject to doubt at this point. Napster was taken down largely because downloading was found illegal. It's not alone.

      And n.b. that criminal copyright prosecutions are comparatively rare. Civil suits (which are simply brought, not prosecuted) are quite common, however.

      once you have a copy, you have it

      Not really. Unlawfully made copies are often not eligible for exceptions (e.g. you cannot sell an unlawfully made copy because the first sale doctrine doesn't apply to it). And the regular exclusive rights still apply.

      Downloading, meanwhile, is to make a new copy unlawfully. This makes you an infringer, and one of the panoply of remedies against infringers is confiscation and destruction of the unlawfully made copies. So you don't really get to keep it if you're caught.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    8. Re:same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by nine-times · · Score: 1
      Note that nobody has EVER been prosecuted for downloading content (kiddie porn not withstanding). It is ONLY the offering for download or otherwise distributing content that people have been prosecuted for.

      That's because, regardless of what the RIAA/MPAA would have you believe, the idea of a "copyright" was not intended to force you to pay for your entertainment. The idea of a "copyright" was meant to control *distribution*.

      In other words, it was a move to keep publishers from reprinting and *selling* the works of other publishers and authors without compensation. In no way was it intended to make it "illegal" to read a book without a license.

    9. Re:same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      In no way was it intended to make it "illegal" to read a book without a license.

      Funny, because back in 1602 when copyright was invented, that was EXACTLY what is was meant for...

    10. Re:same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by barawn · · Score: 1

      Not only are you wrong, you contradict yourself. Go read 17 USC 106 for the core rights of copyright holders. Remember that they're negative -- they are rights to exclude others, not rights to actually do.

      All of the provisions in that section apply to making copies, not to other uses of it. Specifically, they say that you can make a copy if it's required to use it (which, if you want to play a game on a computer, it is) and for archival purposes if the archives are destroyed when the program is lost.

      Nothing in that section applies to other uses of the copyrighted object. So long as you're not copying it beyond the reasons stated above, you're fine.

    11. Re:same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by barawn · · Score: 1

      Mp3.com lost, because they used really silly defenses that didn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

      Yah, but that sets a precedent for a ROM site, not for people that download them. The point was that if someone tries to sue you for downloading ROMs of games that you own, I think most courts would laugh and toss the case.

      Now, sueing the website that holds them is different.

    12. Re:same for dvd/vhs/[name it media] by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      A defense against civil suit for ROM sites is that it would be hard to prove that you were damaging them in any monetary way. At least that's true of things like C64 or NES images.

      Yeah, they own the copyrights, but without damages they don't have much to stand on in court. I think this would be the same way that you could defend against a suit for downloading ROMs too.

      Your argument about the downloaders applies equally well to people that merely download mp3s too. Haven't all the cases thus far been against people sharing files?

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  10. By that logic... by MMaestro · · Score: 2, Interesting
    (2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful

    Try this analogy : If all newspaper and printed documents were under this same law, you would not be allowed to use any back up copy unless all original copies were destroyed. By that logic, we should be passing the original copy of the Declaration of Independence since we would not be allowed to use any copy of it as long as the original existed. Not very logical is it?

    1. Re:By that logic... by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      That analogy doesn't work:

      1) The Declaration of Independence is not copyrighted.
      2) The Declaration of Independence is a government document.
      3) The copyright on the Declaration of Independence would be expired by now.

    2. Re:By that logic... by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      That analogy doesn't work:

      Nope. Fact #2 is flat-out wrong: The Declaration of Ind was not written by any government- it was published by a group of rebel guerrilas.

      Facts #1 and #3 are true but inappropriate, because if today's copyright law had existed back then, the Declaration would've been implicitly copyrighted, and it would've never expired (since the USA doesn't allow copyright to expire anymore)

  11. Emulation is wrong. by Meagermanx · · Score: 4, Funny

    Emulation is wrong. It hurts the industry. I mean, if everyone is downloading Skate or Die! for the Commodore 64, how will the developers make any money??

  12. Backups by Ratbert42 · · Score: 1
    ...that means the owner of an original may make a a copy and that copy cannot be used unless the original is destroyed or damaged.

    So I can dump my carts to disk then have a big ole bonfire with them and play the copies legally. Or just throw them in the trash.

    1. Re:Backups by putch · · Score: 1

      or when the atari 2600 cops come knocking on your door just tell them that they burned up.

      --
      just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!
  13. No blood no foul... by briankoenig · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My personal belief is that if the respective game creator no longer makes money from my purchase of the game, I have no problem using an emulated version. Case in point: Let's say I want to play EVO, one of the only Super Nintendo RPG's I didn't buy when the system was new. Where do I get it? I can buy it used at Gamestop or GameCrazy, but Nintendo nor the publisher profits from that, just the huge corporate game company. I could buy it on eBay, but again, neither the developer nor publisher profits off of that, just the private seller and eBay. In cases such as this, it has no effect on the platform owner, the developer, or the publisher whether I download the emulated version or buy the copy used from someone else.

    1. Re:No blood no foul... by Dr.+Mortimer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What if the publisher plans to eventually re-release emulated versions of its older games for a newer system?

      This is exactly what they did with their old NES games for Gameboy.

      If there's enough demand for something "old" like EVO that a re-release is potentially marketable, then downloading without paying for it in some form may be regarded by some as questionable.

      However, it can be difficult to find out if a re-release is in the works to begin with....

    2. Re:No blood no foul... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But by buying it from someone else (beit corporate (Gamestop) or not (ebay)), you're creating a secondary market for the item, which by extension will inevitably increase the original market (through which Nintendo/the publisher got paid) because people know that if they buy it, they'll be able to resell it for some value. By simply downloading it, you take away that secondary market.

    3. Re:No blood no foul... by onlyoneshinobi · · Score: 1

      But what if they never WILL re-release it. It doesnt hurt the industry and it never will, collectors will still buy cartridges.

    4. Re:No blood no foul... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's say I want to play EVO, one of the only Super Nintendo RPG's I didn't buy when the system was new. Where do I get it? I can buy it used at Gamestop or GameCrazy, but Nintendo nor the publisher profits from that, just the huge corporate game company. I could buy it on eBay, but again, neither the developer nor publisher profits off of that, just the private seller and eBay. In cases such as this, it has no effect on the platform owner, the developer, or the publisher whether I download the emulated version or buy the copy used from someone else.

      By buying a used copy, and supporting the second-hand market in video games, you are directly supporting the new market. Those people who sell their old games will often use the money they get to buy new games. If you give $10 to someone for an old Nintendo game, and they go out and use that $10 to buy a new Nintendo game, Nintendo benefits. If you download the ROM, and as a result the other person does not receive $10 and does not buy a new game, Nintendo has lost a sale, arguably due to your downloading a ROM.

      It's a tenuous argument, I admit, but it makes a certain amount of sense.

    5. Re:No blood no foul... by thomkt · · Score: 0

      Does this mean if I find a copy of Halo 2 in the used game bin at EB, it's OK for me to download it, since the one profiting isn't the developer/publisher?

      - KT

    6. Re:No blood no foul... by himitsu · · Score: 1

      How exactly should game companies find out if there is interest in re-realeasing old games? Nintendo only re-released old nes games that sold well, and added some generic space shooters and side scrollers into the mix to make a larger collection of 'nintendo minis'.

      The best example of a fan community lobbying to get an old game released was the Starmen.net effort. Starmen.net (used to be earthbound.net) collected a huge number of sigs to get Nintendo to realize that there was a very real interest in seeing another Earthbound/Mother game in the USA. So far, nothing has been done by Nintendo to help out these fans. In fact, Nintendo released a GBA version of both Earthbound games bundled together in Japan only (Mother 1+2). There are no plans to release this in the US.

      Also, the SNES was 2 generations of hardware ago and there have been no re-releases of SNES games except for the Mario and Zelda games re-done for GBA. I don't think that I should have to wait until Nintendo decides if they want to realease one of the 1,000+ SNES games for whatever happens to be the current hardware generation to enjoy these great games using my own hardware.

      If you want to check it out and learn about a great SNES game that gets either a 1 or a 10 on gamefaqs go to: [Starmen.net]

    7. Re:No blood no foul... by RsG · · Score: 1

      Depends, can you get it new? If not then, yeah, the OP's point stands.

      Halo 2 in this context is a really bad example - it was released recently and thus is still available as a new game. You either missed the point or made a strawman argument - the emulator he's talking about is for a really old game that is long since out of production.

      --
      Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
    8. Re:No blood no foul... by thomkt · · Score: 1

      It was a strawman, I was feeling a little pissy when I was at work today.

      Oh well.

      - KT

    9. Re:No blood no foul... by Jagasian · · Score: 1

      EVO is a great game, but you have to ask yourself, is it an RPG, platformer, action adventure, or what? Maybe all of the above? I wish that game had a proper modern version made of it.

  14. So far off base it's silly... by IndiJ · · Score: 1

    Several others have pointed out that all you have to do is claim that your original system broke down and you're in the clear, but I'm going to take it to the next level.

    Emulator writers are also in no danger because the emulators themselves have a huge number of legitimate uses. The law already covered this issue many, many times with the Xerox ruling about photocopiers and the Betamax ruling about time-shifting.

    Furhtermore the bit about emulators "[making] use of a copyrighted BIOS or kernal(sic)" smacks of technical and legal ignorance. Unless the emulator writer literally copies the bits or precise algorithms, it's not an issue at all - and that's highly unlikely since many changes have to be made in order to accomodate another platform. But assume that the emulator writer did package an exact bitwise copy of a copyrighted component - they're probably still covered under the derivative works section of fair use: it's a translation making the work accessible when it would otherwise not be.

    Emulation itself is logically not criminal - especially since there are so many valid uses for it - so twisting the law to make it illegal is idiotic. Even if it were the case that it is illegal under current law, that wouldn't last long under any half-assed challenge.

    --
    It's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.
    1. Re:So far off base it's silly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See kernal with reference to Commodore kernal. No "sic" required, since it appears to be correct.

      Sony sued Connectix for copying the bios to the playstation, even though they reverse engineered it. (Sony lost I think.) Most Playstation emulators tell you to download a copy of the bios by finding it online somewhere. Sure doesn't sound above board, does it? If it were legal, wouldn't the emulator authors just package it with their software? Apple 2 emulators also require you to find a file necessary to emulate an Apple 2 computer. Why not include it if it's so obviously legal?

    2. Re:So far off base it's silly... by IndiJ · · Score: 1
      See kernal with reference to Commodore kernal. No "sic" required, since it appears to be correct.

      A kernel is the core part of a computer's operating system that provides access to and from hardware (among other things). Kernal is a proper name - referring to the ROM-based operating system of Commodores. To paraphrase TFA: "Does an emulator make use of a copyrighted BIOS or ROM-based Commodore operating system?", which makes no sense in context.

      Sony sued Connectix for copying the bios to the playstation, even though they reverse engineered it. (Sony lost I think.)

      They did, and I'd forgotten all about that. That ruling alone makes the whole Matthews article uninformed rubbish.

      Most Playstation emulators tell you to download a copy of the bios by finding it online somewhere. Sure doesn't sound above board, does it? If it were legal, wouldn't the emulator authors just package it with their software?

      Why doesn't it sound above board? Don't you believe in presuming innocence until guilt is proven? As for your second question, here are two theories I came up with with just 30 seconds of thought (I don't know anything about PS emulation, so my facts may be wrong).

      1. To save space. The average size of the first 4 PS emulators I was able to find sizes for (EPSXE 1.6.0, FPSE 0.9, PCSX 1.5 and VSG 1.4) is 387kiB. The kernel is roughly 260-270kiB. That would mean almost a 70% increase in the size of an emulator distribution.
      2. To allow for trivial changing and upgrading of the kernel. This page alone lists 10 different kernels, with varying versions and localizations (ex. North America, Japan, Europe). Could be that you need a Japanese BIOS to play Japanese games properly.

      I imagine the same logic applies to the Apple 2 emulators. IANAL, so I'm honestly not sure whether copying the BIOS wholesale is legit (Sony v. Connectix was about reverse-engineering, not copying), but I suspect not. Of course, I never claimed that it was, just that it might be argued as fair use. On the other hand who fucking cares? If you want to emulate legally just do what Connectix did and reverse-engineer it instead of being lazy and copying it. That's most definitely legal. Sure distributing the BIOS may be illegal, but emulation is most certainly not.

      --
      It's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.
  15. Microsoft has nothing to worry about by AtariAmarok · · Score: 0, Troll

    Its attempts to emulate a complete, stable OS have not reached fruition yet. Nothing to worry about for now.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  16. Not Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    When you purchase a dvd, you don't purchase a license. You purchase and own THAT PARTICULAR COPY of the movie in THAT PARTICULAR FORMAT. Unfortunately, you don't also purchase the right to create a copy from your own copy (except for archival purposes). That right is reserved for the copyright holder.

  17. Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If emulation is illegal, then why did Nintendo release the Classic NES series, which is nothing more than an emulator running NES ROMs.

    1. Re:Nintendo by orion41us · · Score: 1

      emulation is not illegal, what's illegal is breaking the End User license agreement. All they do is just change the "Rights" section of the EULA.

  18. All you need is a broken ROM by Andy_R · · Score: 1

    Surely an archive copy is legally usable if the original is beyond repair - otherwise what's the point of having it (as the law allows you to do)?

    This would mean you can legally use emulation if you own the orginal rom (floppy/CD/etc.) and it's broken beyond reasonable repair.

    --
    A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    1. Re:All you need is a broken ROM by Methuseus · · Score: 1

      Since when does "archive copy" mean you can't use it until the original is dead? I always thought it was best to keep the least volatile copy (which is usually the original) as your archival copy.

      --
      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
  19. Reverse Engineer? by fdawg · · Score: 1

    What if the rom is a reverse engineer? Ive seen copies of Mario World for the ti89 that dont look to be complete rips of the original rom from the GameBoy cart. It looks like some geek sitting in the back of his CS class decided to recode the damn thing in assembly. I could be wrong about the geek, the class, and the language, but its definately a recode and not a straight copy. How would the law interpret this?

    1. Re:Reverse Engineer? by StonedRat · · Score: 1

      I'd guess that's legal until you release it, then it's copyright infringment.

      --
      "Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses." - Arthur C. Clarke.
  20. Even IBM does/did emulation by Dragonmaster+Lou · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Back in the early days of the computer market (the 50's, in this case), IBM had some serious problems. Basically, they would come out with new mainframe models every couple years or so -- but the architecture was so radically different from the previous generation that it couldn't run the previous generation's software (this was before they got the whole "backwards compatibility" concept). Recompiling also wasn't much of an option because most of the software written back then was done in assembly -- and even in the few cases where it was written in Fortran or something, the hardware, OSes (as primitive as they were back then), etc., were so radically different that a simple recompile wouldn't do either.

    Their solution? Emulation. When you bought a new IBM mainframe, you could also acquire an emulator for the previous generation's equipment so you can continue to run your old stuff. Given as how storage technologies, etc., were also changing as fast as the CPU architectures, you would also essentially be running the emulated software off of the equivilent of "ROM archives."

    There wasn't a problem with this back then, and I don't see why there should be a problem with this now.

  21. Is this really news? by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

    I mean, last I checked the process of reverse-engineering closed systems was illegal, therefore creating an emulator of a video game system is by definition illegal. I mean, I understand the article (which is focused on the games rather than the consoles themselves), but isn't it also illegal to have created the emulator in the first place?

    The only exception to this would be in a situation where the rights holder to the hardware/firmware releases said specifications and code into the public domain... to the best of my knowledge there aren't any console manufacturers that have done that. And no "abandonware" doesn't count since technically the rights of the originator still apply even if the originator does not still exist as a formal entity (for example Commodore; the rights to the C64 hardware and firmware still exist but reside in the hands of others).

    I didn't think this wasn't already common knowledge.

    1. Re:Is this really news? by arkanes · · Score: 1
      I mean, last I checked the process of reverse-engineering closed systems was illegal

      Does it hurt when you're so totally amazingly and in all ways completely wrong?

    2. Re:Is this really news? by KronusOverlord · · Score: 1

      but isn't it also illegal to have created the emulator in the first place? There is no law prohibiting you from programming something--so long as it doesn't do something harmful to someone else's computer. (as far as I know) I mean, I can code viruses all day and night, but as long as I don't begin sending them, its not illegal.

  22. How do you prove you own a copy? by happyhippy · · Score: 1

    Ive owned a crap load of Amstrad CPC, SNES, and PS1 games but 99% of them were broke/dumped/lost.
    DO I have the right to get the ROM? I did own the games afterall.

    1. Re:How do you prove you own a copy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to have a really nice car, but I crashed it. Do I have a right to get another one free?

      Nope.

      If you didn't look after your property, and it broke or you lost it, then guess what? You don't have it any more and you don't have any right to. If it was of value to you, you should have insured it.

  23. Utterly wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hypothesise a single game released for, say, the C64, that has been released into the public domain. Run that. There you go, an example that shows all emulation is not illegal.

  24. No it isn't; this guy is screwing up his analysis. by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Informative
    It all has to do with Title 17, Chapter 1, 117...

    Warning sign one: No one gives a rat's ass about chapters in title 17. Sometimes people do (e.g. Chapter 11 bankruptcy) but not here. Likewise, people usually don't say 'title' unless they mean the entire thing (e.g. federal copyright law is chiefly codified in title 17).

    The cite anyone familiar with copyright law would provide would be 17 U.S.C. 117. Getting basic stuff like this wrong is a bad sign.

    Moving on, he has skipped -- though he took the trouble to quote -- an important clause in the section.

    Taking this into account, we can say that:

    Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner.

    So the checklist is pretty simple:
    * Do you own a copy of the program? (EULAs may interfere with this, which is one of the reasons they're really intolerable) N.b. that some people misread owning a copy as owning a copyright. But that would be asinine as a copyright holder cannot infringe on his own copyright at all. It's as impossible as stealing something from yourself.

    * Is the computer program being utilized in conjunction with a machine? Yes, if we're going to run it in an emulator.

    * Are any reproductions or adaptations of the program you make only made as an essential step in running it in the emulator? Yes. Essential here doesn't really mean that there is no alternative, but rather that it's not utterly superfluous. I.e. merely because you might be able to run a program without reproducing it to the hard drive, but rather reproducing from CD straight to RAM, you aren't obligated to.

    So what's the upshot for emulator writers? Well, I would worry about contributory copyright infringement, the type of legal challenge that all the Peer-to-Peer applications have had to deal with

    I would generally not worry about that. To escape contributory infringement on the basis of a capability of a technology, one need only demonstrate potential, significant, noninfringing uses. Since there are plenty of programs that can be run in emulation which are authorized to be so run, in the public domain, or run by copyright holders themselves, that's likely sufficient. And even that presupposes that the guy is right, and he's not.

    The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.

    This is roughly correct. First, note that Nintendo's statement applies to the backup provision of 117 -- 117(a)(2). We've been looking at 117(a)(1), which concerns itself with running software, not backing it up.

    Second, I would disagree that backups lawfully made pursuant to 117(a)(2) can only be used when the original cannot be used.

    The exclusive rights of the copyright holder are in 106. The relevant one is reproduction (i.e. making a new copy, given the special definition of 'copy' in 101). Use -- as distinguished from reproduction -- is not covered, and therefore not infringing. A caveat, however, in that a use that involves a reproduction is infringing on the basis of the reproduction; this is why we need 117, since moving things into hard drives or RAM is reproduction.

    The statute allows archival copies to be made if they are only for archival purposes, but this only makes sense if they can at some point be acti

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  25. So, Sense is ruled out, eh? by VernonNemitz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    According to the guy's logic, then this should be illegal too:
    Buy an original copy.
    Make a copy.
    Archive the original
    Use the copy until it wears out.
    Make another copy from the archived original.
    Use that until it wears out.
    Etc.

    After all, it is pretty well known that the average person cannot make a copy that is as high-quality as the original. (CD-rot seldom happens to originals, just to CDRs, see?). So, if I use the original, and it suffers wear and tear, then how can I be sure that my archived copy is really going to save my bacon when needed? While archiving the original practically guarantees it!

    Anyway, if the preceding is illegal, then we need a new law!!!

    1. Re:So, Sense is ruled out, eh? by Tobias.Davis · · Score: 1

      I prefer to keep my legal backups on my hard drive, in images that alcohol 120% can mount.

  26. obligatory by FlashBuster3000 · · Score: 1

    what about wine then?
    Ah, i forgot, wine is not an emulator :)

  27. "Licensed" versus "Sold" by jgoemat · · Score: 1
    Further doesn't that mean that the only legal way for the owner of an Atari Asteroids stand-up machine to play the game in an emulator is to obtain a license for the ROM for that purpose (which, incidentally, StarROMs does).
    I guess that could depend on whether the games you are playing on an emulator were licensed or sold to you. If you licensed the originals only for playing on the original machines, then you would need a separate license for running them on an emulator. If you bought the originals (not sure if shrink-wrap licensing would be valid), then you can pretty much use them in any way you see fit.

    There was a case where Company A had a software product and also provided support for it for a fee. Company B started providing support for Company A's software product as well. One year, let's say 1987, Company A stopped "selling" the software to their customers and started "licensing" it instead. The court found that Company B was violating Company A's copyright just by loading the programs into memory to provide support for their customers, but only for the customers that purchased a license after 1987. Company B could still provide support for customers that had originally "bought" the software prior to 1987.

  28. Forgive me if it has been said already, by Odocoileus · · Score: 1
    but he seems to be mistaken:

    (a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.-- Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided: (1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or (2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued

    Clearly, the copy is able to be modified to play on an emulator or it can be archived, nothing else. In fact if the original gets destroyed, it could be argued that you no longer have a right to use the copy, because you may not have a legal right to owning the original anymore. There is something to be said about critical thinknig courses.

    --
    ...
  29. No. Some emulators (e.g., Vectrex) are allowed. by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 2, Informative

    The copyright holder for the Vectrex arcade game hardware and the various games which were released on cartridges has explicitly allowed its user community to create emulators for that hardware and run copied images of that software as long as the emulation is not done for profit.

    Because of this, Vectrex emulators are perfectly legal, and it is legal to copy the ROM images and play them in a Vectrex emulator on a PC.

    --
    Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
  30. Maybe it's a troll, or maybe... by djdanlib · · Score: 1

    This is pretty much the news-article equivalent of a troll, right?

    Okay. Real content. We all know when we break the law. Some choose to do so, and some choose not to break the law. It's not like these anti-copying notices and end user license agreements (EULAs) are written in some foreign language. They're written in English, and distributed with each copy of the game, and even the system. If you want to copy a game, you know whether it's legal. "Desired by the manufacturer" and "Legal" are NOT THE SAME. If you do something that makes the manufacturer frown, boo hoo. If you do something illegal, shame on you. Illegal things are illegal whether you get caught or not, and copying some software you don't own and distributing it *against its EULA* is in fact illegal.

    It is legal to make something that works like something else. Suppose you wanted to make your own blenders, and sell them. Go ahead. You can do that. However, you may need to work around existing patents when it comes to the gray areas where our patent system doesn't know how to deal properly with electronics and software. From what I've seen, all that's been patented is hardware that does this and that, not software algorithms to do the same thing. Making an emulator is not a crime, right? Well, if you make it for the purpose of stealing money from the emulatee, that's obviously wrong. But I don't think that's the idea behind most emulators. I think the crew made ZSNES (for example) for a fun project, and also so they could play their games on their computers instead of on the television.

    I think it's already been established that downloading copyrighted material without an agreement between yourself and the owner of the material is illegal.

    Why write more inflamatory articles about it? Just to have all the discussion massage the old ego? "Oh, look, I wrote and 100,000 people talked about it! I am the MAN!!!"

    Can we please not encourage these authors to write what's already been written?

    1. Re:Maybe it's a troll, or maybe... by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      Um, violating an EULA isn't illegal. It's possibly a contract violation, but contract violations aren't illegal.

      And it's only a contract violation if they can prove you signed something.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  31. Re:No it isn't; this guy is screwing up his analys by p7 · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the info. Also, might be worth it to mention that not all emulation requires a backup copy. For example my PC reads Playstation disks fine, so I never need to use a backup to run the game on an emulator. This completely removes the code he mentions from any consideration in the legality of all emulation.

  32. Re:No it isn't; this guy is screwing up his analys by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

    But since you have to create a new copy in RAM in order to play it, you are in fact relying on 17 USC 117(a)(1). So it's certainly a section worth discussion.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  33. Re:No it isn't; this guy is screwing up his analys by xgamer04 · · Score: 1

    I don't think most Playstation emulators cache the entire disc to RAM. This would be pretty unnecessary (and probably require something like 1+ GB of RAM), especially since most of the content on the discs that takes up any real amount of space is the audio and video stuff, which is usually streaming as the game plays.

    --
    When you look at the state of the world, how can you not become a radical, liberal anarchist?
  34. Re:No it isn't; this guy is screwing up his analys by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

    Doesn't have to be the entire thing, and it doesn't have to be there any longer than it takes to merely reproduce it further or let people directly or indirectly perceive it.

    The leading case on reproducing to RAM being potentially infringing is MAI v. Peak. You might want to google for it and give it a read. It's kind of bizarre, but it is widely followed.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  35. Re:No it isn't; this guy is screwing up his analys by DavidTC · · Score: 1
    Um, and Playstations copy it to RAM also. No computer use CD-ROMs as program memory. It would be incredibly slow, for one thing. (Not to mention it's impossible on all CPUs ever made, there's no CPU instruction that says 'retrieve this location from CD and pull it into the CPU and execute it'. You have to copy it into memory.) And even then you'd be copying it through the processor as you executed each instruction.

    If Playstations are legal to operate, than emulators are, in that regard.

    And he already mentioned the exception: Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner.

    Computer programs can be copied as much as needed to be used, as long as you don't use said copies in any other manner. (1) This has been law for over a decade now. I'm really tired of people still operating in 1972 or whenever. We don't need 'permission' to run computer programs.

    1) Okay, that is a bit weird. How would you use a computer program in a manner that is different from 'utilization of the computer program'? Someone got their wires crossed while writing that. Maybe you could use a computer program as an encryption key, and it would not be legal to use the aforementioned memory copies for that. ;)

    --
    If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  36. From most to all? by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

    Well, the curmudegon article does a bang up job introducing you to the legal theory of 2000. Fortunately, nothings changed. But he fails to make ANY argument as to how ALL emulation is Illegal. To do so would require a proof that Nintendo's own emu's offered to developers were themselves illegal (they arent) or a less pedantic argument that emulators themselves are illegal without the permission of the important parties (generally the court cases have shown this to not be true). I think the author would have been more correct in saying "all commercial ROMs are illegal (without explicit permission)". Writing and using emulators for the sake of writing software for the platforms (often done for cost or effiency) is a whole 'nother can and is also actively pursued by some emulation enthusiasts.

    --
    I Browse at +4 Flamebait

    Open Source Sysadmin

  37. small amendment/correction inquiry by way2trivial · · Score: 1
    The law does say that you can't download the Star Wars movies

    does it say you can't download? I thought it said you couldn't upload.....

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
    1. Re:small amendment/correction inquiry by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      does it say you can't download? I thought it said you couldn't upload.....

      The law doesn't use the word "upload" or "download" (those would be excessively specific). What it does say is that you can't "copy" or "distribute".

      Uploading is a form of distributing, and both downloading and uploading are a form of copying. Therefore, without permission, they're both illegal, uploading doubly so.

  38. Re:No it isn't; this guy is screwing up his analys by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

    Um, and Playstations copy it to RAM also.

    I know. It's one of those glaring problems with copyright law these days. Playing a Playstation game in a Playstation is infringing too unless one of several things apply: The game is in the public domain; permission is given (expressly or implicitly) to do so; 117 applies, or; 107 applies.

    As a rule you can expect that the latter three apply for playing a console game on the console it's made for.

    The permission angle is a little tougher with emulators, but we still have 117 and 107 and between them they basically cover it.

    We don't need 'permission' to run computer programs.

    I'm afraid you do. Unless you can run it without reproducing it, the reproduction is infringing unless any of the factors listed above apply. (or you hold the copyright of course, since you can't infringe against yourself) One of those is if the copyright holder has authorized you to reproduce it.

    You should really read MAI v. Peak. (finding that running a program was illegal) And then maybe Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry. (finding that looking at a web site was illegal)

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    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  39. Re:No it isn't; this guy is screwing up his analys by DavidTC · · Score: 1
    MAI v. Peak was a licensing issue. Section 117 of copyright laws says the owner of the copy has a right to make any copies they need to run it, and Peak was not the owner, but merely a contractor hired by the licensee. The license said that licensee was allowed to run the program only for data processing needs.

    I've never seen a console game that even pretends to be licensed. (And EULAs are pretend licenses that won't hold up in court.)

    And the other didn't involve a computer program, so no exception.

    --
    If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  40. Re:No it isn't; this guy is screwing up his analys by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

    Section 117 of copyright laws says the owner of the copy has a right to make any copies they need to run it, and Peak was not the owner, but merely a contractor hired by the licensee.

    Yes, and? MAI stands for the proposition that reproductions to RAM are infringing unless one of the previously mentioned factors applies.

    You're saying that MAI's licensee had a factor going for it (it was authorized) but that Peak didn't (it wasn't authorized, 117 didn't shield it, 107 either didn't shield it or wasn't alleged, and the work was copyrighted).

    If a console game is not licensed -- and I agree there -- then the owner of the game is EXACTLY the same boat as Peak was. One of these conditions needs to be satisfied, or running the game will result in infringement. Since all but the public domain condition seem to apply, the owner is all set. (the permission needn't be in a formal license, you know; it could be inferred from conduct, such as selling people the damn game)

    Why are you arguing over something we seem to agree on?

    (And EULAs are pretend licenses that won't hold up in court.)

    Read the ProCD case?

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  41. Yeah, and clearly virtual memory is illegal too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems to me that if you interpret "for the purpose of execution only" in the very strictest sense, the copy in memory that you are allowed to make for execution cannot then be stored to another more permanent medium. You can only execute the copy, you can't store it.

    Alternately, you can make a backup copy, as long as it doesn't pass through memory on its way from one medium to the other...

    If you take this logic to its ultimate extreme, storing a program in virtual memory is illegal unless the size of the program is larger than the size of the physical memory in the machine.

    If any part of a program resident in memory is temporarily flushed to the hard drive, it would be an extra copy that wasn't just a static archival copy and also isn't strictly required to run the code.

    This also means that suspend to disk is illegal, since you aren't actually executing the copy of the software stored on in the suspend partition and your original copy of the software is still intact when you resume and start using the data from the suspend partition.

    Clearly this law is obsolete. You can't use a modern operating system without automatically violating it.

  42. Re:Yeah, and clearly virtual memory is illegal too by mo^ · · Score: 1
    For the purpose of execution only


    I took that to mean i had to sharpen the edges of my backup dvd's and throw them at people
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    bah!*@%!
  43. Wrong, wrong, wrong. by Jagasian · · Score: 1

    While I always prefer the real thing to emulation, we emulation of any game console that I have come across tends to be inaccurate, incomplete, and buggy compared to the real thing... emulation is in no way illegal or wrong. If there was something wrong with it, you can bet Nintendo would have sued more emulator authors, and Sony would have won all of their anti-emulator suits.

    If emulation was illegal, then your "IBM compatible" PC would also be illegal. Dell, Compaq, etc... would all never have existed and we would all be running expensive $5000 Macs.

  44. Emulation != ROMs by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but for example I play all my Playstation games in an emulator, right off the original CDs. There is _no_ ROM image involved, and there is _no_ copying the data off the CD involved.

    Furthermore, just for the sake of beating on the obvious fallacy some more: even for SNES or GBA games, it would be trivial to make a connector (or a gamepad with a connector) so you can run games directly off the original cartridge. Just plug it in, and run the game off it. No copying or ROMs involved. Dunno if it's been done, but it would be trivial to do it, if there was a market for it.

    So, no, emulation is _not_ a synonim for "ROMs downloaded off some warez site." They are completely different things, and completely different issues.

    What the law might or might not say, is that you're not allowed to play off a ROM image if your old console still works. It also _does_ say is that you can't rip your games and offer them for download over the Internet. Sorry, that's not _one_ copy, that's not for personal use, it is not for archival, and sure as heck leaves you with no way to erase all copies downloaded when you get rid of the cartridge. So anyway you want to interpret the law, hosting a site full of ROMs _is_ illegal.

    But does it say that "_emulation_ is illegal"? Gimme a break. That's the most brain dead interpretation I've ever heard. It just shows that the author has no clue what emulation even means.

    Or let me rephrase it: it shows that for them "emulation" just means "downloading pirated ROMs off the Internet". Sorry, no. It doesn't.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  45. Yes it is legal, this guy is a muppet by @madeus · · Score: 1

    I think this guy likes the sound of his own voice and that he doesn't know much relevent history (and that he hasn't been bothered to use Google either).

    As I get a bit sick of explaning to muppets like him who are arrogant enough to think they have uncovered some crucial legal precident or frame work that no-one else has noticed (including teams of lawyers working for firms like Sony), the issue of emulation has been delt with in court in the US many times, even specifically in the area of emulating video games consoles.

    A good example is the Connectix vs. Sony case. Connectix of course were responsible for the the leading quality PlayStation emulator 'Virtual Game Station' for Windows and Macintosh.

    Sony tried multiple legal angles to stop distribution of this program (and similar emulators), including 11 claims of patent violation. They lost, and in the end just bought the technology from Connectix to keep it from being avalible.

    The same issue had already come up years ago in case involving Sony and Accolade (and it had bearing on the Connectix vs. Sony case). That 'Emulation is illegal' was a bogus assertion then, a bogus assertion in the Connectix vs. Sony case, and a bogus assertion now.

    In the Connectix vs. Sony case, the court ruled that it was perfectly legal for developers to make dumps of the firmware for the purposes of building an emulator (even if it's a commercial competing product). You may not, however, distribute them or include patent code in your code (no surpise there).

    There is quite a good summary here.

    Of course this still doesn't mean it's okay to obtain ROM's from the internet (obviously) but some people inextricably link "emulation" with "OMGWTFBQQ free gamez0rs 11!!11" and get confused when you try to treat the issue of emulation as a seperate topic from software piracy.

  46. Re:No it isn't; this guy is screwing up his analys by DavidTC · · Score: 1
    No, I'm saying MAI doesn't matter because 117 gives the owner of the copy the right to copy it around in memory, and the company that hired Peak did not purchase a copy, they merely licensed it. (They actually did license it, too, it wasn't some backdoor EULA.)

    Copying into RAM is an infringement unless 117 applies, and 117 only applies to the owner of a copy. If you are the owner of the copy, you don't need permission. (BTW, there's a law being considered to fix this, changing 'owner' to 'lawful possessor'.)

    Now...

    As for ProCD, the logic there is absurd. And opens up absurd loopholes...all I have to do is claim that I myself did not purchase the software, but was given it as a gift, sans packaging. Or maybe the packaging was damaged right there. Or maybe I can't read. (Which is not only crazy, but somehow means that someone who didn't actually own their copy legally sold it to me, which is inane.)

    And the court was seriously confused about who was making the offer. Their logic only works if the software company was making the offer, and someone walked up and said 'sure', like tickets with rules on the back. But a package on a shelf is not an offer, and it's certainly not an offer from the software company.

    Walking up and handing it to the cashier is the offer, and the customer does that to the merchant, not the software manufacturer. Just because the product packaging claims to contain additional restrictive terms on behalf of the manufacturer (Which is legal), doesn't mean that when I make an offer to a third party that I expect them to apply. If I purchase a stereo in the orginal box at a yard sell with a two year warranty, I'm not expecting to get the warranty.

    It's even more absurd when you consider that, while most additional terms do contain restrictions on what the service was labeled as, they don't restrict you from doing something that you legally could do otherwise. If I purchase an 'open ended' plane ticket with blackout dates on the back, well, I didn't have any right at all to be on their plane anyway. It's a restriction on what they have to do in return for your cash, not a restriction on something you could do anyway. Whereas I did have a legal right to copy any software I am legally owner of, which (Pretending EULAs are valid here), I would have been had they not stuck the terms there.

    I.e., most 'small print' slightly changes things, and it's understandable to allow customers to agree without seeing. (Although absurd to not let them see, like with most software. Some software companies just lost a suit over that, IIRC.) It's not understandable to change the entire terms of a sale, especially when that sale was with a third party!

    --
    If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?