18 Live Linux CDs -- In A Row

Lacking a Major Player? by SpottedKuh · 2005-02-01 16:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

Interestingly, they have two versions of Suse reviewed, yet no Gentoo?

Re:Lacking a Major Player? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

Having a "gentoo-based livecd" is kind of an oxymoron - gentoo, whose claim is that its a targeted install for the specific machine, now has to boot everywhere, and lock people in to using only the apps on the cd, which is not part of the Gentoo Philosophy - which is (in one word,) flexibility.

OTOH, It would provide a nice base to create a livecd, however, given that only necessities can be added in and it can be stripped down a whole lot (like compiling the system with dietlibc or even uclibc.)

Gentoo... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:27 · Score: 5, Informative

Lemme fire up catalyst real quick and give you a few more to play with...

Seriously, for those who'd like to play with creating their very own custom Live CD, Gentoo's catalyst makes it really easy. It takes a bit of time, and could use some better docs, though.

So which one... by skids · 2005-02-01 16:28 · Score: 5, Funny

Has the scariest startup screen to go along with the words "Hey, you'll loves this, I just wiped your system and installed Linux!"?

--
Someone had to do it.

Re:So which one... by stephenisu · 2005-02-01 16:53 · Score: 4, Funny

Well it's not technically Linux...

But have you seen the GNU logo? Scary looking thing it is.

--
Sigs? We don't need no stinking sigs!

Article Text by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:30 · Score: 2, Informative

Why use a Linux Live CD?

Well, there are four main reasons.

* You want to test drive Linux (or that particular distribution). You want to give it a look, and see what programs it offers.

* You want to test your hardware. Will it work with Linux?

* You want to install Linux to your hardware. If you like it, you might want to make the leap right then.

* You want to do real work.

What does real work consist of? Usually, it means:

* Surf the web, meaning "look at html pages." On occasion, it's also handy to have built-in plugins: flash, pdf, shockwave, and the codecs necessary to run a movie trailer.

* Email. You might want a dedicated email client. More often, using a CD means that you're fetching your mail via a browser.

* Chat.

* Open or create an office document. It could be that you're just trying to read a document, spreadsheet, or Power Point that someone emailed you. Or you're trying to create one.

* Print. So you view or create a document. Maybe emailing is good enough. Sometimes, you want a copy.

* Read/write to a floppy or USB pen drive. Either of these might store your configuration files, or documents you're working on as you travel.

Here's my home collection to date (and while it isn't complete, it's a good look at today's offerings).

* Basilisk (based on Fedora)
* BeatrIX (based on Debian/Knoppix/Ubuntu)
* Berry Linux (based on Fedora)
* Damn Small Linux (based on Debian)
* FreeSBIE (based on Free BSD)
* Gnoppix (Knoppix/Debian plus Gnome, now merged with Ubuntu)
* Kanotix (modified Knoppix/Debian)
* Knoppix (the first big live CD, based on Debian)
* Luit (Debian/Xfce, rox filing system)
* Mandrake Move (based on Mandrake)
* Mepis (Debian)
* Morphix (modular Debian)
* PCLinuxOS Preview (a Mandrake fork)
* Sam (Mandrake/Xfce)
* SLAX (Slackware)
* Suse 9.1 and 9.2 (rpm-based)
* Ubuntu Live (Debian)
* Xfld (Debian/Damn Small Linux and Xfce)

The most significant way to categorize them is their software management systems. Most of the Live CD's fall into one of two camps: Debian apt-based (Damn Small, Gnoppix, Kanotix, Knoppix, Luit, Mepis, Morphix, Ubuntu, Xfld), or rpm-based (Basilisk, Berry, or SUSE).

As I hope is obvious from the above, Debian is winning. The apt-get program allows the user -- at least one who isn't afraid of the command line -- to easily add and remove programs, even to upgrade to a newer distribution with a single command.

In general, all of the Live CD's booted, found the Internet through an ethernet port, and launched their bundled programs.

Few of them managed to print. Often, it wasn't even possible to figure out how you were supposed to set this up. (I freely admit that the problem may be me. CUPS has proved slippery for me.) Many of the distros also had trouble locating a wireless connection.

Some, of course, were faster than others. A few were so slow (taking over 5 minutes to load a program, for instance) that they weren't even worth trying to use on an old Gateway, 128 megabyte machine (see test machines, below).

Some were easier or more pleasurable to use. This, of course, is subjective, a matter (aside from speed and function) of taste. I'll try to declare my biases as I go along. But in general, "pleasure" means that I found a sense of integral design, a consistent look and feel, a focus on not just lots of choices, but the right choices.

I tested the Linux Live CDs on three machines:

* a Gateway E-3200, PII, with 128 megs of memory, 3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X, 10 gig hard drive.

* an HP Pavilion A520n,with 512 megs of memory, nVidia video and sound. The Internet connection for this one is via wireless: an Intersil Corp, PRISMII.5 Wireless LAN card.

* Dell Precision with 256 megs of memory, nVidia video and sound drivers.

_My favorites and why_

On machines with 256 megs or more:

PCLinuxOS (www.pclinuxonline.com) is an offsh

Re:no gentoo? by nuclear305 · 2005-02-01 16:30 · Score: 5, Funny

They were probably still waiting on the bootstrap to compile the livecd image :)

What we need by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:31 · Score: 5, Funny

Is a really, really big bittorrent of all 18. Somebody get cracking on that.

Re:no gentoo? by notthe9 · 2005-02-01 16:32 · Score: 2, Funny

Yeah, what about us 5up3r-1337 mofos who want to do it right? Lazy idiots with their binary versions of live CDs...

more than 18 by frovingslosh · 2005-02-01 16:33 · Score: 4, Informative

Not a review (either), but this website http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php?sort= &showonly= list a lot more than 18 live CD's (and even it is not complete).

--
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.

FreeSBIE? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

If calling it a review is a stretch, what is calling FreeSBIE a Linux Live CD?

chart, please! by js7a · 2005-02-01 16:33 · Score: 5, Insightful

Who would take the trouble to try so many distros and not bother to summarize their findings in tabular format? Someone with the sorely lacking proce capability of Mr. LaRue, evidently.

Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Propagandhi · 2005-02-01 16:34 · Score: 5, Insightful

Does anyone stop to think that there may be too many flavors of Linux for the average user? Consider this, if you will: Joe User, sick of cleaning the spyware and virii off his Windows box for the bazillionth time reads about "Linux" in the Times/on Cnet/wherever. Naturally, he googles it, and ends up with all 18 of these live distros, a ton of kernel related stuff that he doesn't understand, and a gazillion news articles reviewing things he knows nothing about.

I have RTFA, btw, and it was pretty approachable, but it still didn't make it much easier for the user to pick out something to replace his E-Mail checking/Web Surfing/Occasional Media playing (pr0n) computer. Perhaps the Linux community should get together and make a serious effort at a unified "desktop" launch. Personally, I think it'd go a long way towards getting more people off XP and involved in Open Source, all these fractured distros aren't really helping.. /2 cents

Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by JanneM · 2005-02-01 16:48 · Score: 5, Insightful

Perhaps the Linux community should get together and make a serious effort at a unified "desktop" launch. Personally, I think it'd go a long way towards getting more people off XP and involved in Open Source, all these fractured distros aren't really helping.

This seems to pop every once and again, in different varieties: "there's too many distros/desktop projects/widget sets/web browsers/Hello Kitty squid cookies to choose from. Why can't we have just one?"

A few questions:

* Who, exactly, would do the picking? Based on what criteria? And who would decide that person/organization actually was a good choice to pick an alternative?

* What did you have in mind for enforcement? Selective assassinations of developers and users that refuse to go along?

Users pick different distros/desktops and so on because they have different needs and different preferences. And developers develop a particular option for all kinds of reasons - becoming popular may not even be on the list at all.

So, let's say "we" decide on Redhat with XFCe as the new standard for Linux. Will that mean that Debian will close their mailing lists, Novell immediately liquidates itself and all gnome and kde developers quietly rm their development directories and take up the torch of XFCe? Nope. If anything, an attempt to mandate one option out of many will antagonize a lot of people and make that option less popular then before.

--
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by dmaxwell · 2005-02-01 16:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

Just how do you propose to cut down on the proliferation? These pieces are all laying around for anyone to scratch his itch with. Try your "Google criteria" with Windows. You will get an equally confusing raft of crap that pops up. The only reason there isn't a decision on which Windows for most people is that Dell or Gateway decided for them.

I suppose a would-be Windows refugee could ask the geek that lives across the street or see if there is a LUG in town. The only way Linux can be what you want is if order is imposed on it. If order is imposed, Linux would cease to have what attracts so much development. Fast and competing development is how this has to work or it won't work at all.

I even maintain my own Knoppix builds (not for DL unfortunately...they have Captive drivers and MS fonts installed). The reason I can make a Knoppix that the stock one doesn't provide is because anyone can roll their own. Nothing has been done to make this difficult for the sake of having a unified market. A chaotic ever evolving Linux may never be able to unseat the likes of MS. A staid controlled Linux never will because very few will want to develop for it.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by kfg · 2005-02-01 16:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

Does anyone stop to think that there may be too many flavors of Linux for the average user?

Yes, and decided the point has validity.

"Perhaps the Linux community should get together and make a serious effort at a unified "desktop" launch."

No, they shouldn't.

KFG
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by randallpowell · 2005-02-01 17:05 · Score: 2

That is why Linus should help make a distro as the "unofficial" distro of Linus and promote that to newbies. The others can compete with more advanced option or tech-support.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by kfg · 2005-02-01 18:02 · Score: 2, Insightful

"Distributions matched: 344"

Number of things you can build with a Meccano set (or Lego, for you youngsters): Limited only by your imagination.

Of course if all you really want is a model of a '57 Corvette you should just go buy one of those. Or is it an '84 Ferrari GTO you're after, well go buy one of those. Not into cars, huh? How about this lovely Mosquito nightfighter kit? Or a Charles W. Morgan in full running rigging? It can be built with just standing rigging too, if you want to do a diarama of it in dock at New Bedford.

Oh, wait, I'm sorry, the model manufacturing community has decided that framentation is a bad thing and that every model having different parts and assembly instructions was just confusing the average model builder.

They only supply prebuilt, Lime Green, Tatra T57s now.

I hope you like prewar Tatras. . .and Lime Green.

KFG
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by DarkMantle · 2005-02-01 18:08 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yes, but as the grandparent post states.

It's too confusing for Joe 6-Pack to be able to decide on a linux distrobution to use. Lets Look at Joe's thoughts.

"I've had to remove even more Viruses and spywares off my computer. I thought that Anti-Norton-Virus was supposed to protect me." (Note, as someone who helps Joe 6pack too often, yes, they call it the anti-norton-virus, instead of NAV)

"What's this Linux thing I read about?" (Followed by a search from one of his pay-per-click toolbars. See's ads to increase his *nix by 3 inches)

"Wow, there's a fedora linux, mandrake linux, debian linux, slackware linux. I don't like the sound of that last one, I think it's made by slackers"

Now deciding to find out what linux is and why there's so many, Joe types "what is linux" into his spyware toolbar and finds...

Linux is a kernel that developers can create the rest of a computer operating system on top of.

Joe now wonders why there's an army officer in his computer, or worse yet, a piece of popcorn. So in confusion he searchis for pr0n from his pr0n only toolbar and forgets about it.

The moral of the story, All these branches of linux are confusing to Joe, and without Joe's support linux can't wipe out M$. So if we can't decide on one, lets reduce it to the big players, then keep a few around for elitist (Such as gentoo) and call it a day.

--
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by JanneM · 2005-02-01 18:26 · Score: 4, Insightful

So, again, who is going to do the ellimination?

Who is going to say to, for example, the Mepis developers that they are not welcome to develop their distro anymore? And what do you suggest when they say "f**k you" and redouble their efforts, and most everybody else sees you as a posterior opening for trying to dictate what other people do with their time?

As for Joe:

Joe will get whatever flavour his geeky friend Billy recommends him - the same friend that in practice will work as support and mentor until Joe is up to speed on his new system. It really doesn't matter which distro Billy hands over; all the modern ones are good, and the informal support network is a much more important factor than any details of the particular distro anyway. Or, he will buy a desktop with Linux preinstalled and will run whatever came with the machine.

By the time Joe really discovers the wealth of alternatives out there, he does so because he's been delving deeply enough into the Linux world that he is perfectly capable of choosing himself.

People who aren't interested in computers aren't stupid, or dense, or uneducated. They just aren't interested in computers.

--
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by blanks · 2005-02-01 18:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

" I think it'd go a long way towards getting more people off XP and involved in Open Source" I agree on some of the things you are saying, but do you honestly think that the general public really gives two shits about open source? Will they save money? Its it easier to use? Can they do everything they need to do for fun and for work? These are the things people care about, not open source.

--
TruePunk | Games
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by lachlan76 · 2005-02-01 18:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

So what are you saying? We should forcefully shut down any developers who make their own distro?

I don't care what Joe does, I want my computer to do what I want it to do. I don't care what MS does, as long as they don't stop me from doing what I want to.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Vo0k · 2005-02-01 19:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

So your suggestion is actually to... create yet another distro?
Because I don't see the current ones going away that easily...

--
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Total_Wimp · 2005-02-01 20:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's actually a little easier than all that. Joe six-pack picks up Red-Hat Linux at the CompUSA because he heard "it's the most popular" or "it's the best" or some other such thing. He loads it up (terrifically easy install) and starts to work.

Is Red Hat Linux "the best"? Who knows, but it is one of the most talked about in the media and it is on the shelf at CompUSA so why not give it a whirl?

OR...

Same reasoning, but he ends up downloading Fedora for free from one of the mirrors after going to the Red Hat web site.

THEN...

After he's wet his whistle, he'll start looking at some other distros (or not) and settle on something he likes.

Yes, this is how Joe Six-Pack really thinks. He goes with the distro he's heard about and gives it a try. It's probably going to be Red Hat/Fedora (but might not, depending on what kind of people he hangs out with).

Put another way: How on Earth is Joe Six-Pack going to figure out what brand of beer to buy? What car to buy? What brand of PC to buy? Which video game to buy? He might be a little confused, but he'll probably end up with the market leader with a reasonable chance that he'll try something else later on. He'll do this because the market leader is the one he's heard more stuff about. From this perspective, picking a Linux distro is probably not much more stresful than picking a candy bar brand. We don't really evaluate candy bars _that_ thouroughly... we buy a Snickers.

TW
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Apathetic1 · 2005-02-01 20:44 · Score: 2, Informative

Well, I checked on this - a Google search for Linux points to http://www.linux.org as the first hit. Searching on MSN for Linux returns http://www.linux.com and http://www.linux.org in that order.

If you go to linux.org and click "Download", it brings you to a page that mentions a) that you don't have to install Linux to the hard drive and b) that Knoppix is the most popular Live CD.

I'm not saying it's not a valid point - people are easily confused by "this Linux thing" if they haven't done any research but ultimately I think choice is better than no choice and the answers are within easy reach.

--
My username does not make me Apathetic. It's irony, get it?
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Mornelithe · 2005-02-01 22:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

MS and Apple didn't 'get it right' by making the interface shinier first and worrying about the core second. That doesn't alleviate the fact that installing an operating system is hard (which you cite as a problem).

The only reason people can use Windows and MacOS, but they "can't" use Linux is that Linux doesn't come pre-installed on a desktop system from any of the major players. People never have to install OSX or Windows, and that's a major advantage.

Ordinary people are perfectly capable of using a modern Linux desktop once it's installed. There are plenty of people here giving testimonials like, "my mom uses Linux, now that I set her up with it." The problem is that 99% of PCs are sold with Windows installed, and 100% of Macs have MacOS (assuming you want Linux to take over there, though I don't know why you would).

If Linux had 95% of the PC marketshare and came preinstalled on all PCs, and Windows were struggling, and nothing else were changed from how it currently is,* I doubt you'd see people having terrible problems, and people would be talking about how 'Joe Sixpack' can't handle Windows because it's too hard to install it separately and it's 'non-standard' so it's hard for people to use. "It doesn't look like Linux, so no one will ever switch."

KDE and Gnome aren't unusable by any reasonable standard. They're not even that different from Windows and OSX. At least, they're not any more different than the differences between cars or beers. We don't have radically different paradigms for web browsing and word processing on Linux. They just look a little different and shuffle the menus around, and that's not anything you can't get used to quickly.

Linux doesn't deliver. What it delivers is an ugly conglomeration of strange actions and odd command lines.

I don't know where you got this idea, but it's bullshit. If you're doing what everyday people are doing, you can do it in one, consistent environment (pick KDE or Gnome, I don't care which), and without a command line. Hell, I could do most of my 'power user' stuff without a command line if I wanted.

* Well, maybe change the fact that most hardware manufacturers would rather shove bamboo under their fingernails than release specifications for their hardware so that open source people can support it, rather than spending their time reverse-engineering the interfaces. I bet people could swing that if Linux had 95% marketshare.**

** Anal-retentive hardware companies are probably the #1 reason Linux users want other people to use Linux (other than altruism or something). I know that if hardware companies wouldn't be such bastards about releasing specs (they don't even need to write drivers), I wouldn't even consider caring what other people use (not that I care a lot now).

--

I've come for the woman, and your head.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by swv3752 · 2005-02-02 02:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

At out Linux meetup last night we had a new guy show up. One of the members was showing off his new Linspire notebook. The new guy fiddles about with the notebook for a few minutes and exclaims that Linux is easy to use. He figured it wouldn't take him very long acclimize to the slight differences with Linux.

Linspire uses KDE, but GNOME is essentially the same to a beginning Linux user.

--
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Firehawke · 2005-02-02 02:57 · Score: 2, Informative

Windows doesn't work "out of the box" with semimodern hardware any better than Linux does-- I still have to grab drivers for my soundcard and videocard to make them work with Windows (Radeon 9700 Pro and Audigy). Oh, and my network adaptor as well-- I'm using an NForce2 motherboard and there aren't drivers on the Windows CD itself. I have to install those from an additional CD. Admittedly getting drivers installed is a little easier on Windows, but it's still far beyond what the 'average' user is comfortable with.

This is where Dell makes it easier-- by standardizing on a single configuration on the machine and including the necessary drivers from the start, there's no hassle or headache to getting the hardware working. If Dell were to distribute similarly with a Linux-based config using a standard pre-set hardware config, you'd find it goes pretty much as well.

As for ease of use, I'd put Gentoo at the bottom of the list-- it's definitely a distro for an experienced user, though that's not really a mark against it such that it's designed for people who want additional control and are willing to learn the additional steps to handle it.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by grumbel · 2005-02-02 03:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

### The only reason people can use Windows and MacOS, but they "can't" use Linux is that Linux doesn't come pre-installed on a desktop system from any of the major players. People never have to install OSX or Windows, and that's a major advantage.

That and because its trivial to install other software under Windows and MacOS, while its almost impossible for the normal user to install something under Linux when it doesn't come with the distro. Moving from 'I have seen some software on some webpage' to 'I can use the software' doesn't take much more then a few minutes under Windows/MacOSX, most of which is just download time and install time, both of which fully automatic, under Linux such a issue can turn into a day long job, full of manual work, webpage browsing, groups.google browsing for tips&tricks and workaround, dependency resolution and other stuff which is impossible todo for the average user and still a pain for the experienced one.

Re:no gentoo? by c01100011 · 2005-02-01 16:34 · Score: 4, Funny

live gentoo would be great . especially because the user would get to eat popcorn for 5 hours while watching it compile every time they boot.

Error by CypherXero · 2005-02-01 16:34 · Score: 4, Interesting

Why is FreeBSD listed? It's not Linux.

Re:Error by SaidinUnleashed · 2005-02-01 16:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

Because it /is/ a live CD, and it's actually pretty nice, if your hardware is supported.

But it barfs on new and cutting edge hardware.

i.e. no netcard detection, improper clock speed detection, etc. It still works, just not as well as it could.

on a personal note- woo! DSL! ...but not a very flattering review of our distro.

It's really not that confusing. Most people get the hang of it quickly.

--
Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

FreeBSD? by Justin205 · 2005-02-01 16:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

OSNews carries "a quick roundup" of 18 (they are not kidding, eighteen) live Linux distributions.
...FreeSBIE (based on Free BSD)...

Since when is FreeBSD a Linux distro?

--
"Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."

Re:Can a .22 rifle shoot though 18 Live Linux CDs? by flynns · 2005-02-01 16:36 · Score: 5, Funny

Of course it can, you fool! They've all got holes in the middle!!

--
'If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit.'

FreeSBIE is not Linux by SirCyn · 2005-02-01 16:37 · Score: 3, Insightful

FreeSBIE is based on FreeBSD and should not have been included in a Live Linux CD Roundup without special mention.

I suspect that the author is not familiar with FreeBSD, and assumed it would be the same as Linux. In many ways FreeBSD is similar to Linux, but the fact that he could not get Printing or Wireless running tells me he really didn't know what he was doing. Both of these tasks would take me 15 minutes.

On a last note, this is only the second release of FreeSBIE, and it's based on the somewhat criticized 5.x line. Problems of one kind or another should be expected. Give them a few more releases and I'm sure they'll have the bugs worked out.

--
FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!

Re:FreeSBIE is not Linux by HanB · 2005-02-01 19:10 · Score: 2, Insightful

FreeSBIE is based on FreeBSD and should not have been included in a Live Linux CD Roundup without special mention.
Well it's not GNU/Linux, but somehow ``Linux,'' for starters, got mixed up with ``all OSS os'es which run on i386,'' and I have no problem with that. I can explain a more accurate version of the truth later on when the audience is interested.
I'm very glad there are alternatives for Linux. Since I would hate it if we would step from one monopoly into another.
Personally I use OpenBSD on the firewall, and Linux on the desktop, and I'd wish there were less rock/suckers. You know: MY OS ROCKS!!!1 YOUR OS SUCKS!!!!
There's only one guy profiting from these silly flamewars: Bill Gates.

Re:Live CDs by desplesda · 2005-02-01 16:42 · Score: 2, Funny

Imagine a beowulf cluster of these....

I can't fit more than three discs in my drive.

Please find me a liveCD by mrpuffypants · 2005-02-01 16:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

Here's what I want:

- A linux liveCD without any X server installed whatsoever
- DSL doesn't count, since it has to hack a bunch of things up to work within 50MB
- If possible, i'd like it to be debian-based

Any ideas?

I've tried re-mastering Knoppix over and over but it seems like the minute I uninstall KDE/X the whole system craps out.

Re:Please find me a liveCD by bfree · 2005-02-01 17:10 · Score: 4, Interesting

Perhaps Debian From Scratch is what you are looking for?

--
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
Re:Please find me a liveCD by jrcamp · 2005-02-01 17:26 · Score: 3, Informative

Use http://www.morphix.org/ and make your own main module? It's basically a chroot Debian install.

You bootstrap Debian (stable, testing, unstable), pack it up into a compressed file, and plop it into your Morphix directory and generate the ISO. It can be as bare-bones as you want it to be.

You do all your work within a Debian chroot, so you get to use all the wonderful Debian tools.
Re:Please find me a liveCD by avrincianu · 2005-02-01 23:33 · Score: 2, Informative

Why don't you try System Rescue CD ?
http://www.sysresccd.org/

It is gentoo-based, fits very nicely on a mini-cd (I carry one around all the time) and you can "roll your own". Good documentation, great features. And no X.

Quote from their website:
SystemRescueCd is a linux system on a bootable cdrom for repairing your system and your data after a crash. It also aims to provide an easy way to carry out admin tasks on your computer, such as creating and editing the partitions of the hard disk. It contains a lot of system utilities (parted, partimage, fstools, ...) and basic ones (editors, midnight commander, network tools).

Re:18? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:51 · Score: 3, Informative

There are 200 odd liveCDs on this link
http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php

Hope they're not running their server... by nxtr · 2005-02-01 16:51 · Score: 2, Funny

...using one of the live cds...

In a row? by IntelliTubbie · 2005-02-01 16:51 · Score: 4, Funny

Try not to run any Linux distributions on the way to the parking lot! Hey, you ... get back here!

I'm not even supposed to be here today.

Cheers,
IT

--

Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.

Re:In a row? by LGagnon · 2005-02-01 17:21 · Score: 2, Funny

My Linux distro is like a truck. Berzerker!
Would you like some making fsck? Berzerker!
My Linux distro is ticking clock. Berzerker!
Would you like to fsck my /dev/cock? Berzerker!
Re:In a row? by madmancarman · 2005-02-01 18:15 · Score: 5, Funny

Imagine instead of Dante and Veronica, a conversation between Klaus Knopper and Pamela Jones of Groklaw:
PAMELA: That was Gentoo. KLAUS: Why do you call him that? PAMELA: Linus made it up. It's a live linux CD thing. KLAUS: What do you mean? PAMELA: After he boots a live CD, he likes to download and compile new binaries from source. It's called gentooing. KLAUS: He requested this? PAMELA: He gets off on it. KLAUS: Linus can be talked into anything. PAMELA: Why do you say that? KLAUS: Like you said - he gentooed him. PAMELA: Linus? No; I gentooed him. KLAUS: Yeah, right. PAMELA: I'm serious... KLAUS: You booted that guy's live CD? PAMELA: Yeah. How do you think I know he liked... KLAUS: But...but you said you only installed three distros! You never mentioned his! PAMELA: That's because I never installed his! KLAUS: You booted his live CD! PAMELA: We went out a few times. We didn't install, but we fooled around. KLAUS: Oh my God! Why did you tell me you only installed three distros? PAMELA: Because I did only install three distros! That doesn't mean I didn't just live-boot with people. KLAUS: Oh my God-I feel so nauseous... PAMELA: I'm sorry, Klaus. I thought you understood. KLAUS: I did understand! I understand that you installed three different distros, and that's all you said. PAMELA: Please calm down. KLAUS: How many? PAMELA: Klaus... KLAUS: How many live CDs have you booted?! PAMELA: Let it go... KLAUS: HOW MANY? PAMELA: All right! Shut up a second and I'll tell you! Jesus! I didn't freak like this when you told me how many distros you installed. KLAUS: This is different. This is important. How many?! PAMELA: Something like seventeen. KLAUS: WHAT? SOMETHING LIKE SEVENTEEN? PAMELA: Lower your voice! KLAUS: What the hell is that anyway, "something like seventeen?" Does that include mine? PAMELA: Um. Eighteen. KLAUS: I'M EIGHTEEN? PAMELA: I'm going to class. KLAUS: Eighteen?! My girlfriend booted eighteen live CDs! RMS: In a row?

--
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi

Where is d y n e : b o l i c ? by Artemis3 · 2005-02-01 16:54 · Score: 5, Informative

dynebolic is not debian based, its not knoppix based, its an original project! Meant for multimedia 64mb ram machines, and the xbox.

While knoppix each day has less and less apps, this one is getting more and more. And the machines which typically hang with knoppix (or knoppix based), even using all the "no" options, dynebolic loads happily. Not to mention 64mb ram machines, thankfully window maker based desktop for us in poor countries where these kind of machines abund.

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Artix
Your Linux, your init.

So how many of these can... by smartsaga · 2005-02-01 16:54 · Score: 3, Insightful

replace a windows server that does file sharing, web server, ACLs, backup, that also can partition a hard drive, can authenticate using active directory, network configuration, email server with a minimal graphical desktop, that fits on a miniCD that if it is ever hacked all you do is restart the computer and the server is back to it's "clean" read only state.

If you have a "live" CD then updates take as little as burning the updated CD and rebooting the server with it. Configuration files can reside on a floppy to avoid unwanted changes, facilitate backups, etc. Processes can run on sandboxes to avoid total system compromise in case of a hack attack.

I mean, how many out there? Domainix sounds good but still needs a lot of typing. Not easy enough to brag about infront of windows only people. Slax has an add-on for samba and it is small enough... But how many out there??

If there would be one that does all that.. I would even pay for it!!!

Have a good one.

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===== "Every head is a different world so don't invade mine you FREAK!" smartSAGA said

Re:So how many of these can... by HermanAB · 2005-02-01 18:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

Make one yourself! All you need is a 10GB partition and 2GB swap (Google cache of howto): http://tinyurl.com/4chb9

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Oh well, what the hell...
Re:So how many of these can... by mrchaotica · 2005-02-01 18:35 · Score: 3, Interesting

You don't want a liveCD; you want a tool to create a customized liveCD. Something like Catalyst, for instance.

That way you could have all (and only) the features you want, and you could go ahead and put your configuration files and served websites and whatnot on the CD itself instead of a floppy.

--
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

repeat after me.. by naelurec · 2005-02-01 16:54 · Score: 5, Funny

FreeBSD is NOT Linux!!

Seems like ever since Distrowatch started tracking FreeBSD, everyone seems to think that FreeBSD is just another Linux distro.

The Linux community should tar and feather those who mix up ye unholy non-GPL software with the almight GNU/Linux distros!! Down with Distrowatch! Down with OSNews and James LaRue!! hehe..

Gentoo Live CD by colonslashslash · 2005-02-01 16:59 · Score: 3, Interesting

NavyNOS is actually a pretty good Live CD based on Gentoo. I've not used it a great deal, but enough to tell you that the default WM is fluxbox with a sleek theme and background, and it comes with an installer script to make a Gentoo HD install alot quicker for those who are concerned about it.

GUI frontends for partition editing, portage (Porthole IIRC) and the Gentoo file browser are there by default on top of the usual suspects and a few extra net/security apps.

We have a torrent up for it here if anyone is interested:
The Linux Mirror Project - NavyNos 2005.01 torrent

Homepage here:
http://navynos.linux.pl/

This is the only Gentoo based Live CD that I'm aware of, if anyone knows of another, please enlighten me.

--
She's built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro....

Linux? by NEOtaku17 · 2005-02-01 17:02 · Score: 2, Informative

If anyone is looking for a Unix alternative to Linux I definitely recommend trying FreeSBIE. You can learn the way of the BSD without messing with your current install.

Surf on over here for the torrent file.

--
Creative Demolition

What i would love to have on a linux live cd by marty_one · 2005-02-01 17:09 · Score: 2, Interesting

The ability to have an entire operating system work fairly well off a cd without having to load anything on the hard drive is an impressive feat. I have had a look at a couple of live distro's that i though would of met my needs but there are still one thing lacking that would be really nice to have especially on the ones that are designed specifically for a graphical work station. The thing that I would love to see is the inclusion of KPovModeller plus povray rendering engine. If this was included then I would be set. Is there any live distro's around that have KPovModeller installed in them? I have looked around and tried a few not had this particular program.

minimalistic w/ firefox for shopping? by failedlogic · 2005-02-01 17:13 · Score: 2, Informative

I'm looking for a minimalist distro w/ a faster boot time. I don't need 99% of the apps on many distros ... I would just like one w/ firefox to do on-line banking and shopping.

I've been usin Slax and a few others 250 MB but often it takes over 5 minutes to load. This is, virtually the same result on a P3 800 w 640 MB RAM to a 3 GHz A64 w/ 1 GIG RAM. The CD drive is a Lite-on combo @ 40 x or higher read speed.

Ideas?

A strawman! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:39 · Score: 3, Insightful

"A new user moving from Windows shouldn't have to know (or care) if they use KDE/Gnome/Fluxbox/etc or 2.4.x/2.6.x. They should just be able to use a machine and be done with it."

Don't you see, new users don't need to care! Pick any good, general distro and install it for them. Don't talk about KDE vs. GNOME. Don't talk about 2.4 vs. 2.6. They will use the one that is installed and be happy!

You (and many Linux advocates) create an issue that does not matter to the new user, and then claim that it hampers Linux acceptance. The only reason in hampers is because WE (Linux advocates and attackers) WON'T SHUTUP about it.

My brother wanted to try Linux. I gave him a Knoppix CD. He was impressed and happy. KDE vs. GNOME did not come up even once! He'll learn about all the choice after he has some experience with what he thinks is the only choice.

Oh, I dunno by jd · 2005-02-01 17:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

When you consider that different people want different things out of their computer, it makes perfect sense to have many flavours. That's the same reason there are so many car manufacturers, and indeed why many of those produce multiple models at the same time.

A given car manufacturer may easily produce a subcompact, a compact or mini, a regular car, a hatchback, a saloon and/or an SUV, with anywhere from zero to infinite customizations and extras, in budget, standard and luxury price ranges.

True, it would be a little unusual for a single company to produce ALL of the above, and release new, updated models every few weeks, but it would not be outside the range of variation that exists.

However, when you consider a car, there aren't many things you really want such a device for. You might want to go from A to B, carry cargo, look flashy, win races at the local club circuit or get laid (unless you're a geek, in which case this doesn't happen anywhere, whether you have a car or not).

The range of applications for a computer is considerably greater. As such, the need for special customization is also greater. Unlike car dealers, distribution dealers tend to work with entirely pre-packaged goods. (One of these days, I intend to release a distro which is much closer to the car dealership / personalization model, without getting into the extreme of Gentoo, which is like customization by buying your own autoparts store.)

Because customization is much harder, using the pre-packaged model, you end up having to get this degree of flexibility by having more distributions.

(Even with that said, there are probably still far more car manufacturers, especially if you include all the motor racing teams, than there are Linux, *BSD, AT&T Unix, Plan9/Inferno, MIT Exokernel, Mach, HURD and *DOS distributions out there, combined. On that basis, I'd say there's actually lots of room for expansion. The only absolute rule I think should be applied is that distros should be clear about what they do and don't do, the same way you don't buy a Jeep in the hope of winning a NASCAR or Formula 1 event.)

P.S. I managed to write the whole of this post AND read the first couple of chapters of the latest revision of the Linux Kernel book by R. Love, all before the next pre-release came out. Either I'm speeding up, or the kernel developers are slowing down.

--
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)

Re:Linux on grandma's desktop? by adler187 · 2005-02-01 18:02 · Score: 3, Informative

There is no way to find the right Linux distro for you unless you try some out and that is the beauty of these Live cd's. When looking for a new car do you get overwhelmed because there are about 5 bajillion different make/model/options when looking for a car? A computer is the same, you must do some research and do some test driving first. First of all writeups like these should be of some help to you though you might also want to find a friend or someone you know that uses Linux and get their opinion. Obviously since you are a "power user" you should be able to handle it just fine.

For some recomendations I would check out SLAX and Ubunutu (Live cd download is here

I personally use SUSE, but their Live-CD sucks. If you decide to go with a KDE based distro that is what I would choose. If you like GNOME more I would go with Ubuntu. Also, although a lot of people seem to like Knoppix, I have never really liked it too much (mostly because of the messy menu structure). So there you go, try them out. What have you got to lose (besides some time downloading, bandwidth, and a couple blank cd's)?

Re:Linux on grandma's desktop? by cwg_at_opc · 2005-02-01 18:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

what we need is a quickie questionaire that helps you decide which distro suits your needs, then burns the ISO for you, sort of like the weird quizes on bbspot.com only serious.

--
"...that's as white as it gets; all the bits are on..."

[tt] Re:Lacking a Major Player? by nocomment · 2005-02-01 18:24 · Score: 2, Funny

Also, wouldn't FreeSBIE be considered a "dead" cd?

--
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
/* http://allyourbasearebelongto.us */

History of industry by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:29 · Score: 2, Insightful

When automobiles (you know, cars) were first invented and becoming popular, there were, literally, hundreds of automobile manufacturers in the US alone. Hundreds. How is the average (rich) Joe to choose?

Fast forward to now. Auto manufacturing is a mature industry with only a few US manufacturers and a few more world wide.

Linux has been around, as a viable desktop OS for, oh, let's be generous, 5 years. Because it is not created and controlled by a monopoly, it is still a vibrant, changing market place with no clear leaders that can completely dominate. On top of that, FS/OSS principles make it hard to dominate!

Yet, you want, somehow, magically, some "higher power" to declare what a Linux distro should be and look like. You'd remove the natural shakeout provided by the market place as it matures and the freedom built into the FS licenses just to force a "one (or 3 or 4) size fits all"?

You people that argue for this "one and only" Linux have no answer as to how to bring it about. It's ironic because the freedom loving Linux people who want choice are called communists or socialists and the "give me only one" crowd want to eliminate choice. The only way to eliminate choice is to surrender it to an authoritarian power.

Go surrender. I'll stay here with my vibrant, exciting, amazingly creative choices!

Too many brands. by Vo0k · 2005-02-01 19:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

On the other hand, there's way too many brands of coffee. I go to a supermarket and I stand in front of a shelf with coffee for 7 hours, unable to decide. In the morning I go to a resturant to have my morning coffee, they hand me a menu, and I see 15 different brands. Before I choose one, they excuse me, they are closing and it's evening. I even planned switching to tea because of that problem, but once I entered a chineese tea shop and nearly died from dehydration.

My friend says "Why don't you just pick one at random, or try a bit of each to decide on your favourite, or read some reviews to pick one that appeals to you best?" but if I did, what kind of moron clueless coffee drinker would they take me for?

--
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"

Re:ms livecd by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 19:42 · Score: 2, Informative

Microsoft doesn't make a commercial livecd BUT there is a boot cd that runs a custom Windows PE environment called Bart's PE http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ With the addition of the XPE plugin http://sourceforge.net/projects/winpe/ and some tweaking you can have an almost fully fuctional Windows XP desktop from a live cd.

SimpleLinux by WinterpegCanuck · 2005-02-01 20:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

[Insert image of penguin riding bicycle with training wheels]

While I agree that an imposed linux distro would spoil the flavour of the movement, I think there is a solution for "Joe Six Pack." One of the reasons that windows works so well is that there is simple choices; one calculator, one text editor, one RTF editor, one paint program, etc. All simple programs, by no means that strong, but if someone wants to type a quick letter, write.exe is the choice (we are talking default programs, so winword.exe doesn't count ;-)

A simple distro, with one program for each task (and limit the tasks, not everyone needs to calculate the astronomical position of the earth on April 4, 2063), just sort of a starter version. Gets people used to the GUI (doesn't matter which one, just the fact that it is non-windows gets them thinking outside the microbox) file structure, etc. Base it off a standard distro so when they get used to it and braver, they can easilly add all the other choices and options and spread their wings a bit.

With less programs, bootable from a cd, maybe save files/settings in a simple file on thier windoze partition without installing, the eventual plung to fully reinstall won't be so hard. Good intro (think for dummies style) documentation and tours would be easier to write with less programs, just adding some subnotes to those interested that hte programs presented are not the only ones able to do the job.

While it is true this linux with training wheels would probably not remain on their desktop as their permanent Linux OS, it would be that link between win32 and the current linux world.

But then that's just my opinion, I may be wrong. . . .

coLinux sorely overlooked by jago25_98 · 2005-02-01 20:22 · Score: 2, Interesting

coLinux runs inside a Window in Windows. When people are trying Knoppix they could be running coLinux.

http://www.colinux.org/

I use it to serve my ext3 & reiserfs partitions.

Cavats I know of at the moment:

- TAP virtual interface very slow
- not quite a double-click install but close
- virtual filesystem doesn't shrink and grow automatically

--
A blog I run for the wealth

Knoppix by Siener · 2005-02-01 20:52 · Score: 2, Informative

The original, and in my opinion still the best. They seem to get better with every release.

Old versions of Knoppix didn't work properly on my laptop. Recently I tried it on my laptop again, and I was amazed. I basically tested how quickly I could get everything working.

About 15 minutes later I had succesfully set up my local network, internet via ADSL, printer, Samba, and Cd-Writer. As an encore I connected to the internet through GPRS via my cellphone, via the ir port - something that I have never been able to do in Windows.

Best of all: I saved the configuration to a USB key, so now everything is set up correctly as soon as I boot.

--
siener's youtube channel

Re:no gentoo? by EightMillion · 2005-02-01 21:04 · Score: 2, Informative

Apparently there is a gentoo linux live CD. It's available here... http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=01550#0

Follow the link at the bottom. With Gentoo Linux, download options vary greatly depending on your architecture and installation method, so we will only provide a link to the Gentoo Universal LiveCD here: install-x86-universal-2004.1.iso (674MB).

plan9 boots from CD by DrSkwid · 2005-02-01 21:54 · Score: 2, Informative

If you feel like trying it out, it boots from CD anyway, no need for a special LiveCD

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter

Re:plan9 boots from CD by DrSkwid · 2005-02-01 23:51 · Score: 2, Informative

You almost have a point, and indeed the wording was previously different but with enough pressure from users and developers enough changes have occured that the now OSI Certified Lucent Public License Version 1.02 clearly states :

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7. EXPORT CONTROL

Recipient agrees that Recipient alone is responsible for compliance with the United States export administration regulations (and the export control laws and regulation of any other countries).

----

On 9th Jan the GNU foundation and in particular RMS. changed their stance and agreed that :

The current license of Plan 9 does qualify as free software (and also as open source).

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter

Aurox!! by ri0t · 2005-02-01 23:38 · Score: 2, Informative

Aurox is missing, too!
And this, in contrast to Gentoo, IS a Live-CD.
(Not a bad one either)

This fine piece of OS is distributed regularly (including interesting updates & tutorials) with the polish Magazine "Hakin9"

Greetings from Euregio!

Re:no gentoo? by Tolleman · 2005-02-02 01:03 · Score: 2, Insightful

Isn't it? You still have to customize all the applications that goes on the disc to save space and loading time. Its alot easier to do with just a few global USE and CFLAGS then to fiddle around with all the source debs and rpms. But what do I know, I'm no expert on source debs and rpms. It's not like every user would have to make their own liveCD. BTW, Gentoo Games made LiveCD's running Enemy Territories and Americas Army.

Re:no gentoo? by joeljkp · 2005-02-02 01:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

Yes, that's true, but having to compile everything can be annoying, and the benefit is often indistinguishable.

--
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy

Re:no gentoo? by cayenne8 · 2005-02-02 03:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

"I notice ppl often bitch about gentoo having to compile everything. But shouldn't that ensure that the system is always tuned to your hardware? I've never tried gentoo(I use xp/debian), but it's not that uncommon that I've had to compile something to get it running anyways."

Well, unless you have a machine that is very, very old and weak, you really never notice it. The install (if you compile everything from scratch, stage1) does take a bit of time....and you don't have to do that. You can start off quickly with stage2 or stage3....you do have a choice.

I find that once the system is installed and working....emerging new packages or updating old ones runs in the background, and really doesn't impact on my work while it is going.

Now...one caveat...the older, slower systems that will most likely benefit the most from custom compiled and tuned apps...take the longest to compile...but, if it is that freakin' slow for you, I think it is time for you to come out of the dark ages, junk that 486....and pony up some cash for a real computer...

Heck, at the very least...get on eBay, get an old Sun box...prices are dirt cheap...and if you get a dual processor box...they run pretty quickly. A brand new athlon can be put together for near nothing from new egg....the last one I did for my media box, screams...I'm often using it as a pvr while compiling new packages in the background...no problem.

--
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........

Re:no gentoo? by Mitchell+Mebane · 2005-02-02 06:01 · Score: 2, Informative

There is one; it's called VidaLinux.

--

The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
--Aristotle

Re:emerge GnoppixUbuntu? by AlXtreme · 2005-02-02 06:14 · Score: 2, Informative

Beats me. Seems like they will merge (or only be different in branding) once Andreas releases a stable version based on Hoary. He now works for Ubuntu/Canonical, but his current stable version still is Warty/Morphix-based.

I got the same offer from Mark, to more-or-less merge Morphix and Ubuntu, but decided not to do it. Oh well, free world et al. And it means one liveCD less to try out (either one or the other :)

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This sig is intentionally left blank

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