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iPod Most Popular Music Player on Microsoft Campus

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the along-with-everywhere-else dept.

bblazer writes "Wired is running an article about how despite the displeasure of management, the iPod is the most popular music player on the Microsoft campus. The article states that 80% of those who have digital music players have an iPod. Employees have even started using different headphones to be a bit more stealthy about it."

69 of 1,017 comments (clear)

  1. I wonder... by BigDogCH · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder if Microsoft employees use a disproportionately large number of MACs, or are more likely to be Firefox users. I mean, fast food workers never want to eat where they have worked, and people who work at many factories refuse to buy products from that factory. Maybe they feel hatred towards their employer.

    1. Re:I wonder... by SpottedKuh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      [F]ast food workers never want to eat where they have worked.

      I have never worked in fast food, but I have worked in the food-preparation industry. And I can say that I am leery about eating anything from my former employer; and, it has nothing to do with hatred toward my employer. While it was only a summer job to get me through my first year of university, I had an excellent employer and the pay was good. Unfortunately, I saw the kind of sanitation practices that took place during the preparation of food (including, for example, people touching food with licked fingers).

      [P]eople who work at many factories refuse to buy products from that factory.

      This time I speak not from my own experience, but from that of a good friend of mine who worked at a pipe-fitting factory. While the factory and its management had strict safety protocols (regarding both its employees and its finished products), most employees blatently disregarded those protocols. Many close calls (including falling pipes barely missing people and chemical spills being sealed just in time) resulted from the lax attitude of most employees toward those protocols. More important for the consumer, though, many employees tried to slack off as much as possible, resulting in many pipes that were cracked or otherwise unusable, but were only discovered during the final phase of product quality checks. Arguably, with such an attitude prevalent, some faulty products must make it out of the factory. Hence, I would understand anyone's unease at buying from such a factory after seeing first hand (or, in my case, hearing second-hand) about the safety violations.

      Of course, one could argue that such issues would exist at almost any factory or any fast food restaurant (or, almost anywhere, quite frankly), but I suppose something about our perception of a particular location changes after having experienced the issues up close.

    2. Re:I wonder... by Quasar1999 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No... Fast food workers refuse to eat where they work for 2 reasons, first they know what goes in the food (scary stuff), and second they are sick of the taste and smell of it.

      Factory workers on the other hand... well, let's break that up, those who work in factories that produce foods, they once again see what goes into it... (that's very scary stuff, I've seen what goes into most cookies and crackers... most of the ingredients are also found in windex...) Now as for the other group, they simply know the flaws in the products their factory produces...

      In the case of Microsoft, their employees tried their product, found it inferior, and moved on. Don't forget, MS is a huge company, and you'll note the article specifically mentions that the media group is all using MS based players... that's probably due to fear of losing your job, rather than thinking your product is superior... but anyways...

      What I'm trying to get at, is that the don't feel hatred to their employeers as the parent tried to imply, they simply know a little too much about the product produced...

      --

      ---
      Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
    3. Re:I wonder... by soft_guy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I wonder if Microsoft employees use a disproportionately large number of MACs, or are more likely to be Firefox users.

      No, they are not disproportionately Macintosh users compared to the rest of the software industry (unless they work for MacBU). No, they do not hate their employer. No, they are not more likely to use Firefox compared to other software professionals at other companies.

      I base this on having worked there in the past.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    4. Re:I wonder... by NaruVonWilkins · · Score: 5, Informative

      Excuse me - I'm in the media group, and the only people I know of on my team who have a portable media player have an iPod. In fact, some of the people who work on portable devices have an iPod. I can't speculate as to the reason, but I will point out that Apple is still ahead of the curve in releases. Sure, you can find a little Samsung device that has the same features as the Mini, but it's hard to find. Apple has their own store, and they're a much more recognized brand.

    5. Re:I wonder... by JudgeFurious · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In high school I spent about a three years working in fast food and it made a distinct impression on me. I worked at Popeye's, then McDonalds, and finally Chick-Fil-A and the only one of the three I'll go anywhere near now is Chick-Fil-A.

      The one I worked in was fanatically spotless. I don't know if it's all of them but a great many are owned by Uber-Christian franchise owners who are crazy about the clean and the lord. I didn't fit in with the majority of the crew there being a godless heathen and all but I'll give them points for being obsessively clean.

      I don't even want to think about, much less mention what I saw at Popeye's and McDonalds. I've tried hard to black those months out of my mind.

      --
      Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
    6. Re:I wonder... by danielsfca2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > we couldn't afford the food.

      When I was 17-18, I worked at Jack In The Box. It was my first job. I ate there all the time, and so did most of my coworkers. Everyone was very good about food handling there, so we weren't to. We got a 50% discount if we were working that day, and 20% discount on our day off. So on days I worked, I usually ate during work on my lunchbreak, and after or before work. If I was feeling broke, I just bought a 99-cent item like a Jumbo Jack or two tacos, so it was only 54 cents. Since I made $6.75/hour, a buck a day wasn't an unaffordable price.

      In 2003, though, I worked at a McDonald's in Massachusetts. I never once ate there, because of the "OMG the way they handle food here is so disgusting" factor.

      And as a final note, Disney doesn't give any of its theme-park employees any break on its ridiculously-priced, low-quality theme-park fast food. So considering the slave wages they pay, their employees literally can't afford the food. One meal would cost about two hours' pay. (this also from experience.)

  2. Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by Gob+Blesh+It · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Microsoft employee's open letter to Bill Gates almost made me choke. In case you haven't read it, let me paraphrase: "How do we make an iPod killer?" he asks rhetorically. "First we must harness the blogosphere!" he answers. "Then we'll design the interface by committee. Synergize, baby."

    Anyway, I found it interesting how clearly the note reveals (what seems to be) Microsoft's general thought process. Never lead, always follow. I mean, how pathetic is this sort of blatant, shameless me-tooism? While innovators like Apple are trying to build the future, Microsoft employees like this guy are trying desperately to catch up... and they still can't figure out how.

    Just my two cents from an Apple fanboy. Flame on...

    1. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by eln · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, while your characterization of Apple as a ceaseless innovator may be a little over the top, you do have a point about Microsoft, one that demonstrates the dangers inherent in a monopoly or oligopoly controlled industry.

      Microsoft doesn't innovate because they don't NEED to innovate. They know that they can be late to the party on a particular feature or product, and they will still be able to capture the majority of the market, because they can offer two things that no one else can possibly provide:
      1.) the strength of the Microsoft name, and
      2.) Seamless integration with Windows, a family of operating systems that over 90% of the public uses, and which only one company has full access to the internals of: Microsoft.

      If the innovation does not fit into a category that can be exploited in this way, Microsoft can either purchase and rebrand the technology, or develop their own clones and bury the competition in predatory pricing and overwhelming marketing.

      Why bother to innovate when it's so much easier not to?

    2. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by Geekenstein · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being a copycat has always been a strategic business move. Let some other company develop a product, spend countless revisions figuring out what doesn't work, have lots of expensive bombs and R&D costs. Then you simply make a cheaper version of the sucessful product without comitting your own resources to forging the path.

      That, my friend, is known as smart business.

      Need an example? Here's a quick one. Tivo and the satellite/cable PVRs. The content providers can do it cheaper, because they don't have those large R&D bills. Tivo, on the other hand, has to produce the product, pay the expenses incurred, and still somehow make a profit.

      The innovator is usually the one who ends up going out of business. Apple is (currently) the exception.

    3. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 3, Funny

      So apple invented the hard drive based mp3 player? Holy crap, that's amazing.

      You got served.

      --
      Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
    4. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by Leo+McGarry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So apple invented the hard drive based mp3 player?

      Basically, yeah.

      You know who invented the automobile? Depending on how you define the term, there are as many as half a dozen possible answers, none of them later than 1893.

      But do you know who really invented the automobile, for all practical purposes? That's right. Henry Ford, in 1908.

      Apple is to the iPod as Henry Ford is to the car.

    5. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by HeghmoH · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Seamless integration with Windows, a family of operating systems that over 90% of the public uses, and which only one company has full access to the internals of: Microsoft.

      Hah! Windows doesn't even seamlessly integrate with itself, much less external products. Microsoft wouldn't know seamless integration if it hit them over the head while crying out, "Hello! I am seamless integration!"

      Of course, they can pretend, which convinces most people.

      --
      Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
    6. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by berchca · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you're being a little hard on Microsoft (whom I am not a big fan of and generally don't use their products.) While MS always seems to be holding the gun as the one coming up with the knock-off, it is a fact of life that in every industry a new product is either covered in patents (which have their own evils) or quickly reproduced.

      In fashion, it goes like this:
      1) Armani/Gucci/whomever releases new jeans that are actually worn to the point of looking stained.
      2) Next year, Levi's adds this to their lineup as their most expensive sort of jeans.
      3) A year after that, you buy them at Wal-Mart from brands you've never heard of in sizes Gucci wouldn't be caught dead making.

      In food it goes like this:
      A few months ago I was turned onto a food called the Portugeuse Muffin. No idea how it relates to Portugal, but it's become very popular. Made by a company out of Boston and hard to find. Not a few weeks ago I noticed Trader Joes was carrying their own version. And if it sells, I have not doubt that the Thomas Corperation, long established monopoly of the muffin business, will release their own, squashing the small Boston bakery under their unkind heel.

      Innovation only lasts so long. MS wants an iPod killer? Maybe. What about Creative? They want one pretty bad themselves.

    7. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by shut_up_man · · Score: 4, Funny

      This reminds me of an analogy that I read somewhere, perhaps from Robert X Cringely... it said there are three types of tech companies:

      1) The Commandos
      These guys are doing crazy new stuff in wacky situations, inventing and improvising and breaking new ground. They are happiest going where no-one has gone before, creating new products and whole new markets. If they aren't doing wild new stuff, they get bored and go somewhere else. In many ways, this is Apple.

      2) The Soldiers
      Soldiers go in once markets and products have been established by the commandos. They take these original ideas and solidify them, securing the area with polish and marketing glitz. In many ways, this is Microsoft.

      3) The Police
      Once the war is won, the Police maintain the status quo. They aren't interested in creating markets or inventing new products, they just want things to say the same and keep making cash for their organization. In many ways, this is Dell.

      Now I can see holes in these descriptions already, but I do get the feeling that Microsoft isn't in the insanely great new product business. It's risky, requires rare and volatile skills, and it doesn't end up making that much money in the long run. And that last point is the key, because Microsoft really isn't a tech company. They are a money company. They make tonnes and tonnes of money, and they don't care about the other stuff.

    8. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by eclectic4 · · Score: 4, Funny

      "The innovator is usually the one who ends up going out of business. Apple is (currently) the exception."

      Yes, that beleaguered company should be going out of business any decade now, I can feel it...

      --

      "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
    9. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful
      So apple invented the hard drive based mp3 player?

      Basically, yeah.


      Apple had the first widespread success with one, but I seem to remember things like the Creative Nomad predating it by a matter of years, so completely untrue.

      You know who invented the automobile? Depending on how you define the term, there are as many as half a dozen possible answers, none of them later than 1893.

      But do you know who really invented the automobile, for all practical purposes? That's right. Henry Ford, in 1908.
      nobody. Ford was the first to mass produce 'em. There's a huge difference.

      Apple is to the iPod as Henry Ford is to the car.


      Well, "Apple is to the portable MP3 player what Henry Ford was to the car" might be closer to accurate. You've rather overmixed your metaphors and created a bit of a mish-mash.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    10. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by jsebrech · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple invented the hard drive based consumer mp3 player. Before that the only people with HD-based mp3 players were geeks or early adopters, with players that catered to that crowd (advanced recording features, large physical dimensions to afford large disk sizes, extra geek stuff like ethernet interfaces, ...). The ipod made it possible to give your mom an mp3 player and have her make use of it with minimal guidance. This is because the entire "ipod experience" (and I know that's a laden term) fits together smoothly, from the first time you turn it on, over how you use itunes to put music on there, to actually putting on an album during daily use. There are no "tricks" you need to figure out. It all just works. This is incidentally why the windows ipod market didn't really take off until itunes became available on windows. The software before that was so horrible my mind has blanked out its name. Ah, yes, now I remember, musicmatch, which was anything but. *shivers*

      I have yet to see another HD-based mp3 player that has the entire package: a good player UI, good PC music management software, and an easy way to get almost any sort of music legally from the internet.

  3. Huh? by JamesD_UK · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Why is this particularly interesting? Should they should be using a digital portable music player made by Microsoft instead of Apple?

    The iPod is the most popular digital music player. It's fairly like that if you take any subset of the population that the iPod will also be their most popular player.

    1. Re:Huh? by colanut · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It is interesting because (from the goddamn article):
      So popular is the iPod, executives are increasingly sending out memos frowning on its use.
      Microsoft doesn't currently make hardware, but the sure as hell make a competing media format. Balmer and co have made a lot of noise about the iPod as well. But the point is, how can you make an Apple killer if your own employees are using the competition.
  4. headphones by Darth_brooks · · Score: 3, Informative

    Employees have even started using different headphones to be a bit more stealthy about it.

    Could be, or maybe they just don't want to get mugged. White iPod headphone do a great job of saying "I've got an expensive, easy to steal piece of electronics on me."

    Also, iPod headphones suck. after half an hour my ears started hurting with the old ones.

    --
    There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
    1. Re:headphones by gotgenes · · Score: 4, Funny

      Could be, or maybe they just don't want to get mugged. White iPod headphone do a great job of saying "I've got an expensive, easy to steal piece of electronics on me."

      Exactly! 'Cause I know I certainly keep hearing about these muggings that happen to all these people wearing iPods in upper-middle class neighborhoods, schools, universities, and especially large, patrolled software giant campuses.

      ...

      --
      It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.
  5. Could it be by CDOS_CDOS+run · · Score: 4, Funny

    Can you imagine people using the most popular product of it's kind?? I bet many of them drive HONDAS too!!!! What will Bill do?? Micorsoft doesn't compete with Apples Ipod, why would anyone at Microsoft care?

  6. Best comment ever, from a M$ manager by dmuth · · Score: 4, Funny
    Straight from the article:
    But at the Windows Digital Media Group, which is charged with software for portable players and the WMA format, using an iPod is not a good career move.

    "In the media group they all smoke the company dope on that one," the manager said.


    So a Microsoft manager is comparing their own products to mind-altering substances? I won't dispute that!

  7. Here comes Bill! by Pirogoeth · · Score: 3, Funny

    Quick! Put that thing away!

    --
    Happiness is like peeing yourself. Everybody can see it but only you can feel its warmth.
  8. Re:What's the big deal? by jo_ham · · Score: 4, Informative

    Good god, this old chestnut again.

    Microsoft bought a small amount of non-voting stock in Apple some time ago as part of a deal that kept IE and Office on the Mac platform.

    Microsoft has long since sold those shares, at a fair profit I might add.

    Microsoft doesn't own any part of Apple at present.

  9. First Sign of Intelligent Life at Microsoft! by Zemplar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here you have it folks. Not everyone at Microsoft is hatching ill-conceived ideas; apparently it's only the Management.

  10. outside their firewall... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    MS has an unsecured network for test projects - a little bird told me that when launching iTunes on this unsecured network (from within the MS campus) you can see dozens, if not hundreds of shared iTunes libraries--all being shared by Rendezvous.

    1. Re:outside their firewall... by Queer+Boy · · Score: 3, Insightful
      when launching iTunes on this unsecured network (from within the MS campus) you can see dozens, if not hundreds of shared iTunes libraries--all being shared by Rendezvous.

      Microserfs have stated quite a few times that the Macintosh Business Unit (MacBU) is one of their most profitable divisions. They do little to no advertising for Microsoft Office on Macintosh and most of the innovations for the Windows version of Office are created by the MacBU, being implemented in the Mac version of Office first. Does the Windows version of Word have Notebook view yet?

      I'm not at all suprised that you would find a horde of iTunes shared libraries when they have a pretty healthy team working on a profitable product.

      --
      Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
  11. Insight into the campus here... by kneecarrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I actually work for Microsoft (gasp! and I also read Slashdot!). My cube-mate owns an iPod. I remember the week after MSN Music was launched, he took his iPod with him into the cafeteria. He was waiting in line to grab his lunch and noticed that people kept cutting in front of him in line. He couldn't figure out what the heck was going on until he realized the people cutting in front were all from the music division. They had seen the white earphones and were "punishing" him for going with the competitor.
    Sometimes people can be very petty here.

    --

    I always save my last mod point to mod up a good troll. You people are too serious.

    1. Re:Insight into the campus here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Microsoft is staffed entirely by cocks from what I can tell.

      No wonder their software is so full of holes.

    2. Re:Insight into the campus here... by Pendersempai · · Score: 4, Funny

      Holy cow. What an incisive summary of Microsoft's attitude, from the grandest corporate strategy all the way down to the microcosmic world of the individual employee.

    3. Re:Insight into the campus here... by mapmaker · · Score: 4, Funny
      My cube-mate owns an iPod.

      Are you saying that Microsoft employees have to share cubicles? You don't even get your own grey box to sit in?

  12. Re:Why iPod anyway? by dknight · · Score: 4, Insightful

    while PDAs have decent general-purpose use battery life these days, mp3s kill them pretty quick. besides that, they're still generally bigger than an ipod... pdas also tend to be more expensive and you still wind up with less space than an ipod.

  13. Amazing that corp security allows them by winkydink · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A 40Gb writable device that easily attaches to one's computer.

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

  14. Re:This makes no sense... by slimak · · Score: 5, Funny

    At my work, we are not allowed to use company resources for personal use. This includes playing audio CDs on our computers, playing digital audio on our workstations, etc. So a portable player is a good solution. I should probably not be posting to slashdot either...hmmm.

  15. Re:Why iPod anyway? by Jheaden · · Score: 3, Informative

    Two words... Battery Life

    Most PDAs I've used just don't have the battery life that a dedicated device has. I know mine doesn't (HP iPAQ 1945), although that is the low end of PDAs anymore.

  16. Re:Why iPod anyway? by pdbogen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Interestingly enough: The lack of a good player, no worthwhile eyes-off interface, and battery life. My iPod lasts a lot longer than my PDA would, if my PDA were playing music (empirical evidence)

    That, and a 1GB SD card comes up on Froogle for $54. This is a third the price of the 1GB iPod shuffle, but does not include the cost of the playing device, which is almost certainly at least $100.

    So, you've got a comparably priced solution, with a worse interface, and shorter battery life. Of course, a PDA is still a PDA, in the end.. So it really depends on what feature set you are most interested in.

    Anyway, I have a 40GB iPod, which would be about $2,200 in SD cards, and it cost me less than $200 (thanks, freeipods.com)

  17. Re:Bill buys Apple? by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not a bit like Coke employees drinking Pepsi (which they'd be pretty dumb to do as they'd probably have access to all the free Coke they wanted). iPod is a neo-Walkman, the only way it threatens MS is in the fact that it totally ignores their pointless, me-too, proprietary .wma crapmat.

    --
    That was classic intercourse!
  18. as usual, take wired with a grain of salt by sootman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Robert Scoble--one of the people mentioned in the article--has already written about it. "Personally there's no way that 80% of our employees own an MP3 player. I don't know what world that source is living in, but it's not the one I live in... the story is a non-starter. I know a lot of Apple employees who play Halo 2 too. Is that a story?"

    Ed Bott has some good comments too: "Now read the story. Read it carefully.... Note that the entire thingis based on an interview with one "high-level [Microsoft] manager who asked to remain anonymous." From this one source, we are able to calculate with confidence that 16,000 employees at Microsoft's Redmond campus own iPods... taking an offhand remark from an unknown source (who may or may not have a hidden agenda and who may or may not know what he's talking about) and extrapolating it to the entire campus is just silly...
    One thing they teach you in Journalism 101 is that when you have a single anonymous source, you don't have a story. That's still true."

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  19. Re:What's the big deal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Microsoft bought a small amount of non-voting stock in Apple some time ago as part of a deal that kept IE and Office on the Mac platform.

    Microsoft has long since sold those shares, at a fair profit I might add."

    Actually, Microsoft 'bought' the nonvoting stock to prevent Steve Jobs from suing their ass over blatent rips of Quicktime that was brought to his attention while Owner / CEO of NeXT. It meant nothing to him at the time because he was a scorned man, having been fired by the company he started several years earlier. Once NeXT was bought up and he was brought on as a 'consultant', he was once again in a position to care about Apple's goings-on and layed it on the line with Bill that Microsoft was going to be sued and even at their weakest, Apple had several billion in the bank (and to this day, in a much more liquid form than Microsoft).

    As such, it was deemed that Microsoft would save face by 'investing' almost a billion in nonvoting stock that should have by all means been worthless after a few years with Apple's then track record, but at the same time, no one expected SJ to make a return as he had (most expected at the time, he'd transition NeXT to Apple and go to the next little 'big thing' he had planned). This also helped in the rublings of the Antitrust suit in Microsoft's advantage.

    Microsoft was never supposed to make any money, but it nearly doubled their investment by the time they cashed out.

    I got this info from one of the higher ups at Apple at a conference about the time of the investment...but as I'm posting as an AC, you should take this with a grain of salt.

  20. MSN Music employee here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    And I highly doubt anyone on this team would cut in line at the cafe because someone had an iPod. Many of us have iPods and other players. We don't discriminate.

  21. Re:No by SunFan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why the hell would they use Macs?

    Everyone needs a role model.

    --
    -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
  22. Re:Bill buys Apple? by Golias · · Score: 5, Informative

    They did. They also paid an "undisclosed" ammount of money under the table to settle any remaining possibility of litigation over stolen technologies, and agreed on a plan which would allow MS to make future purchases of Apple's OS breakthroughs.

    However, in their haste to hype a "Microsoft buys Apple" story, the press often ignores three important facts about the purchase:

    1. They were non-voting shares.

    2. $150 Million is a very tiny percentage of Apple's publicly-traded shares.

    3. Microsoft has already sold them off, and made a huge profit doing so.

    --

    Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  23. Re:BULLSHIT! by Warlock7 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wow, couldn't use your real name? What's the matter Ballmer? Were you afraid that somebody would castigate you for it? Eh, MonkeyBoy? :P

  24. Shocking! by Anita+Coney · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The most popular portable music player in the world is the most popular portable music player on Microsoft's campus?! How is that possible?!

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  25. apple doesn't "innovate" by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The innovator is usually the one who ends up going out of business. Apple is (currently) the exception.

    I don't think Apple does much innovation of that kind anymore. They seem to have taken another track to the typical "lead, follow, or..." paradigm: taking something that exists, and making it cool. Did they invent the portable music player? No, they made it cool and really usable.

    Also, just to nitpick: TiVo supplies DirecTV's PVRs. I think TiVo is here to stay. But I realize you could have picked 1000 other examples that supported your thesis.

    1. Re:apple doesn't "innovate" by OhPlz · · Score: 3, Informative

      TiVo may be a dead duck soon. DirecTV did not renew their contract with them. Their chairman and president just bolted. His example does support his thesis.

  26. bottom up versus top down by jhwang · · Score: 3, Insightful

    shows the power of demand-driven bottom-up interest in digital music players versus the top-down directives from a supplier (i.e., marketing initiatives from the corporate office). the most successful marketing campaigns mix top-down from the supplier and the bottom-up from the consumer of course. in this case, microsoft is out of that product loop with their own employees.

    And the posters above who claim that microsoft is not competing with Apple, you're wrong. In a narrow sense, it's true that Microsoft does not sell a portable music device. In a larger sense, Microsoft IS competing with Apple when it comes to digital consumer entertainment platforms.

    That is why Microsfot has spent more than a year denigrating the iPod and promoting its "open" audio format and associated MP3 players. This is why microsoft has been pushing "http://www.digitaljoy.com/" at CES.

    Just because Microsoft does not manufacture Intel hardware, are you going to say Microsoft doesn't compete with Apple b/c Apple sells computers? Sheesh!

  27. Shhhhh... don't say it...! by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Could it be ... could it be you've come up with a worthwhile reason why we have patents?

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  28. Re:Bill buys Apple? by the+unbeliever · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Coke employees who drink Pepsi get fired.

    No questions asked, no fighting for your job. You get fired. This includes if your boss sees you at Pizza Hut, Taco Bell or KFC, since those entities are owned by TriCon, who also owns Pepsi.

    Coke's employee base is very nearly fanatical in their loyalty to their product, and use of "the blue" is not accepted. I worked in a building *owned* by Coke, and we were not even allowed to have a Pepsi machine on our floor.

  29. Its called Group Policies by lysium · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Unlike you, Microsoft knows the full power of Group Policies, and how the entire network can be configured to deny installation of external devices. Resorting to imperfect physical security would only annoy employees while failing to protect against cursory concealment techniques.

    --
    Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
  30. Re:Bill buys Apple? by AstroDrabb · · Score: 5, Informative
    the only way it threatens MS is in the fact that it totally ignores their pointless, me-too, proprietary .wma crapmat.
    Huh? How is that not significant? Do you have any idea how much money MS spent on their WMA format and DRM? Tons of development cash and marketing cash went into their media format/platform? MS is hoping to get a bunch of royalties off of their media/DRM platform. If their platform is not widely adopted or replaced by AAC/FairPlay, it puts a big dent in potential revenues for MS from multimedia.

    There is also the other factor of exposure to Apple products. The more consumers that buy Apple iPods, the more that may just buy a Mac Mini, eMac, iMac, iBook or PowerBook. That means less revenue to MS for their OS cash-cow.

    I personally hope Apple kicks their butt with the iPod and become the defacto digital music format. The latest home DVD player I bought can play MP3's and WMA files. Maybe the next-gen of DVD players will drop WMA and pick up AAC w/FairPlay.

    MS has a lot to lose if they don't control the major digital music format.

    --
    If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
    it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
  31. Not like Coke employees drinking pepsi. by HockeyPuck · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a Coke employee, if I brought a pepsi product to work (say as part of my brown bag lunch), it's looked down on pretty harshly. It's almost to the point of being grounds for termination. It's not just a can of pepsi soda, but any of Pepsi's brands (chips, snacks, fruit juices etc...).

    MSFT doesn't fire people for wearing iPODs...

    1. Re:Not like Coke employees drinking pepsi. by richieb · · Score: 5, Funny
      As a Coke employee, if I brought a pepsi product to work ....

      It's much worse when a Pepsi employee tests positive for coke....

      --
      ...richie - It is a good day to code.
  32. Re:Bill buys Apple? by iamacat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How many iPods do you figure Apple gives to it's administrative assistants?

    I would be shocked if the answer is smaller than the number of administrative assistants with satisfactory performance. It's cheaper than giving a cash bonus for the price of iPod and you get free viral marketing both to visitors and to general population of Bay Area.

  33. Re:Changing headphones isn't so bad.... by michrech · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's a competing product becuase MS licenses the .wma stuff to third parties to put into their MP3 players.

    It's also a competing product becuase MS has the MSN Music Store -- and guess what. It doesn't work with Apple's iPod.

    --
    bork bork bork!
  34. Bill using iPod in Teen Beat by Sophrosyne · · Score: 5, Funny

    A little image I fixed up in photoshop :)
    Here

  35. Re:Bill buys Apple? by sg3000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    > in their haste to hype a "Microsoft buys Apple" story, the press
    > often ignores three important facts

    No kidding. That was some of the worst tech reporting I had seen at the time.

    They also ignored that as part of the deal, Apple dropped their lawsuit against Microsoft for stealing QuickTime software code, Microsoft agreed to develop Office for the Mac for five years, and Apple agreed to not develop any new text-to-speech capabilities for the Mac (this one wasn't allowed to leak for a while).

    I don't know how this information was kept secret -- both companies are publically owned (and I own shares of both, so I get their annual reports), so they should have had to disclose it.

    --
    Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
  36. GM by trailerparkcassanova · · Score: 3, Interesting

    GM encourages their employees to ask for non-GM cars when renting so as to check out the competition. You steal ideas where you can find them.

  37. The difference between a smart co and a dumb co... by otis+wildflower · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... Is that the smart co will see this and say 'how do we make our own dogfood better than this?', then go out and do it.

    The dumb co will see this and put out a memo telling folks it's a CLM.

    Gosh, I wonder which way this will go?

    (And yes, I know M$ doesn't build the player hardware, but they _could_.. I mean, they build good HW (xbox, kynds, mice, joysticks)...)

  38. Re:Why would you care? by Trespass · · Score: 3, Funny

    That was you!?

  39. Not the same thing. by TiggertheMad · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Coke and Pepsi compete. Microsoft and Apple don't really compete. Microsoft makes software, Apple makes hardware. True, the PC is viewed as MS domain, but MS doesn't actually manufacture the hardware. On this specific topic, MS doesn't have a product to compete with the Ipod. Sure, .wma is the format that MS would like to see adopted as the standard format for media content, but they aren't actually selling content in that format.

    MS even makes software for Apple computers. This would be akin to Coke making drink holders for Pepsi products if the analogy held true.

    When I worked at MS, I used to get a kick out of wearing an imac shirt I got from an apple vendor a couple of years ago. Most people wouldn't give it second notice, but every now and then, a clueless drone would make a comment. Now if I showed up with wearing a 'Linux Roxorz MS Boxorz!' shirt, I'm sure that would raise a few eyebrows....

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  40. Re:Bill buys Apple? by jsebrech · · Score: 4, Insightful

    WMA is entirely ms-owned and not standardized, fairplay is a layer over MPEG4/AAC, which is standardized and not under apple's control.

  41. Hold it right there, pre-iPod HD players? by Paradox · · Score: 3, Insightful
    And there were many MP3 players (both harddrive and otherwise) out before the iPod. Creative had at least half a dozen different models alone.
    Stop right there. If memory serves me correctly, the only notable entry in the world of large-capacity HD-based was the Nomad Jukebox. Rememebr that thing? Dumb as a brick and twice as heavy? The old, "Pray you get 3 hours of battery life" Nomad Jukebox?

    Haha. Very funny. Sorry, not a fair comparison.

    What Apple came up with was a high-capacity affordable music player with an interface that no one has betterted, to date, along with a weight/form/design factor that sits in an optimal tradeoff zone. They also championed a tight integration into a general music suite (as opposed to a separate tool that works on files).

    Oh yeah, and then Apple built the music store into the same client that plays the music, organizes the music, and syncs your iPod. So far only iTMS and MusicMatch even try to do this as more than a token gesture, and it's hard to argue for MusicMatch over iTMS.

    If that's not enough to make it an "innovation" then I don't know what is. Did carriage builders complain that the automobiel was really their invention, just without the engine and obedient steering?

    --
    Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
  42. Re:Shenanigans by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Insightful
    For me the significance of the article wasn't the "carrer limiting move" part. It was the point that even in a "technology saavy group", who have a built in bias to prefer Microsoft related products, all else being equal. Even there, 80% of users choose iPods of all the WMA playing devices that Bill's so keen on.

    It rather proves the point of which technology is best, and which is doomed to fail.

  43. Re:Bill buys Apple? by ThousandStars · · Score: 4, Insightful
    There is also the other factor of exposure to Apple products. The more consumers that buy Apple iPods, the more that may just buy a Mac Mini, eMac, iMac, iBook or PowerBook. That means less revenue to MS for their OS cash-cow.

    I seriously doubt MS is even remotely worried about this, since Apple would have to have five or ten times its present sales to even make a small dent. More importantly, I doubt any corporate clients are going to go Apple just because of the iPod and mini. Besides, they probably make as much if not more money from Apple users than they do from Windows users because of the price of MSO:Mac and VPC -- both of which I bought.

    Most importantly, however, MS can pull the plug on Apple anytime they want by eliminating MSO:Mac. Fact is, a whole lot of people, myself included, exist in a world dominated by MSO and need to interact with it; if Office:Mac didn't exist, I wouldn't own a PowerBook. Hell, if VPC didn't exist I probably wouldn't, because I also need Access.

    Any time MS wants to, they can effectively kill, or at least really marginalize, Apple with their MSO weapon.

  44. Re:Bill buys Apple? by jacobcaz · · Score: 3, Interesting
    • Coke's employee base is very nearly fanatical in their loyalty to their product
    It's not just Coke/Pepsi. The husband of a lady I work with is employed by DPSUBG (Dr. Pepper, Seven-up Bottling group). One of their key products is Royal Crown cola (RC).

    When RC big-wigs are in town for a visit, the local account reps get a detailed agenda built, including all dining stops while said big-wig is in town.

    The local reps then work with the restaruants to make sure that RC and only RC is served in the presence of said Royal Crown big-wig.

    There is just about no place I know of in town that serves RC products. So this is a highly choreographed ritual they go through about twice a year. They even coach the hostesses and wait staff to offer an "RC" cola, not just a "soda" or even worse a "Coke".

  45. Paul "I Love Microsoft FOR LIFE" Thurrott's reply by very · · Score: 4, Informative

    Paul "The Microsoft's Whipping Boy" Thurrott sez:
    "Hide The Truth, Here Comes Leander Kahney
    Leander Kahney is a reporter for Wired News. I've been doing a little research into him lately, after being hugely disappointed with his book "Cult of Mac," which is a collection of his Mac-oriented Wired articles. The problem? Kahney's not into facts. Instead, he likes to sprinkle his articles with anecdotal evidence and quotes from a single source, which he then sells as facts. No big deal, right? I mean, that's what most bloggers, tech new aggregator sites, and Mac news sites do too. Sure. But the problem is that Kahney writes for Wired. And thus, he is representing a respected source. That is, people believe this crap."

    Read more @: http://www.internet-nexus.com/

    Honestly, who in the right mind would want to believe Paul Thurrott?

    Has Paul Thurrott even realized that he is the Rush Limbaugh of Microsoft?