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iPod Most Popular Music Player on Microsoft Campus

bblazer writes "Wired is running an article about how despite the displeasure of management, the iPod is the most popular music player on the Microsoft campus. The article states that 80% of those who have digital music players have an iPod. Employees have even started using different headphones to be a bit more stealthy about it."

158 of 1,017 comments (clear)

  1. Bill buys Apple? by turtled · · Score: 2, Funny

    I wonder if he'll make an attempt to buy Apple, and say it's his idea... It's like Coke employees drinking Pepsi.

    --
    "I cannot think of any need in childhood as strong as the need for a father's protection." -- Sigmund Freud
    1. Re:Bill buys Apple? by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not a bit like Coke employees drinking Pepsi (which they'd be pretty dumb to do as they'd probably have access to all the free Coke they wanted). iPod is a neo-Walkman, the only way it threatens MS is in the fact that it totally ignores their pointless, me-too, proprietary .wma crapmat.

      --
      That was classic intercourse!
    2. Re:Bill buys Apple? by Leo+McGarry · · Score: 2, Funny

      It would have been a good investment if they'd held on to it. They sold it off years ago.

    3. Re:Bill buys Apple? by Golias · · Score: 5, Informative

      They did. They also paid an "undisclosed" ammount of money under the table to settle any remaining possibility of litigation over stolen technologies, and agreed on a plan which would allow MS to make future purchases of Apple's OS breakthroughs.

      However, in their haste to hype a "Microsoft buys Apple" story, the press often ignores three important facts about the purchase:

      1. They were non-voting shares.

      2. $150 Million is a very tiny percentage of Apple's publicly-traded shares.

      3. Microsoft has already sold them off, and made a huge profit doing so.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    4. Re:Bill buys Apple? by the+unbeliever · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Coke employees who drink Pepsi get fired.

      No questions asked, no fighting for your job. You get fired. This includes if your boss sees you at Pizza Hut, Taco Bell or KFC, since those entities are owned by TriCon, who also owns Pepsi.

      Coke's employee base is very nearly fanatical in their loyalty to their product, and use of "the blue" is not accepted. I worked in a building *owned* by Coke, and we were not even allowed to have a Pepsi machine on our floor.

    5. Re:Bill buys Apple? by AstroDrabb · · Score: 5, Informative
      the only way it threatens MS is in the fact that it totally ignores their pointless, me-too, proprietary .wma crapmat.
      Huh? How is that not significant? Do you have any idea how much money MS spent on their WMA format and DRM? Tons of development cash and marketing cash went into their media format/platform? MS is hoping to get a bunch of royalties off of their media/DRM platform. If their platform is not widely adopted or replaced by AAC/FairPlay, it puts a big dent in potential revenues for MS from multimedia.

      There is also the other factor of exposure to Apple products. The more consumers that buy Apple iPods, the more that may just buy a Mac Mini, eMac, iMac, iBook or PowerBook. That means less revenue to MS for their OS cash-cow.

      I personally hope Apple kicks their butt with the iPod and become the defacto digital music format. The latest home DVD player I bought can play MP3's and WMA files. Maybe the next-gen of DVD players will drop WMA and pick up AAC w/FairPlay.

      MS has a lot to lose if they don't control the major digital music format.

      --
      If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
      it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
    6. Re:Bill buys Apple? by iamacat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How many iPods do you figure Apple gives to it's administrative assistants?

      I would be shocked if the answer is smaller than the number of administrative assistants with satisfactory performance. It's cheaper than giving a cash bonus for the price of iPod and you get free viral marketing both to visitors and to general population of Bay Area.

    7. Re:Bill buys Apple? by malfunct · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes but maybe Microsoft understands that one of the tools to competion is understanding why your opponents are ahead. I mean I've heard that MS employees use linux from time to time as well and it makes good sense to me. How do you understand what is really good about a product if you don't experience the good and bad things for yourself?

      --

      "You can now flame me, I am full of love,"

    8. Re:Bill buys Apple? by sg3000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > in their haste to hype a "Microsoft buys Apple" story, the press
      > often ignores three important facts

      No kidding. That was some of the worst tech reporting I had seen at the time.

      They also ignored that as part of the deal, Apple dropped their lawsuit against Microsoft for stealing QuickTime software code, Microsoft agreed to develop Office for the Mac for five years, and Apple agreed to not develop any new text-to-speech capabilities for the Mac (this one wasn't allowed to leak for a while).

      I don't know how this information was kept secret -- both companies are publically owned (and I own shares of both, so I get their annual reports), so they should have had to disclose it.

      --
      Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
    9. Re:Bill buys Apple? by the+unbeliever · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My iPod mounts as a removable disk in Windows XP, no proprietary drivers required.

    10. Re:Bill buys Apple? by anonicon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      FWIW, if your Archos ever bites the dust (God forbid - it is a nice player), consider checking out the Xclef 500 - I'm getting one instead of an iPod because it's just a portable hard drive that doesn't use any drivers, and has a really good battery life without being $100 to replace like an iPod.

      http://www.digmind.com/store/index_500.html

      Don't mean to sound like a marketing droid, but it looks nice.

    11. Re:Bill buys Apple? by SilentChris · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "it totally ignores their pointless, me-too, proprietary .wma crapmat"

      Unlike, say, Apple's pointless, me-too, proprietary FairPlay crapmat?

    12. Re:Bill buys Apple? by timster · · Score: 2, Funny

      That sounds brilliant. I need to start a company so I can use those titles.

      Want to come work for me as a Peasant I? Minimum wage and no benefits and you can't work more than 20 hours a week until you're promoted to a Peasant II.

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    13. Re:Bill buys Apple? by hunterx11 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The iPod "locks out" the music by putting it in an invisible folder. The directory structure is pretty unintelligble, though, and it relies on an XML database for locating the songs and information. There are third party programs to transfer files, and even a Perl script could probably do the trick.

      --
      English is easier said than done.
    14. Re:Bill buys Apple? by over_exposed · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My roommate interned with Pfizer and they sold (and likely still sell) their products to their employees for a very small fraction of retail. Granted, it was all gums, mints and off the shelf medications (no prescriptions, sorry). I remember one day he came home witha shopping back full of packs of gum, cough drops, allergy and pain meds, mints, candies and the like and the whole bag cost him about $5.

      --
      "The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
    15. Re:Bill buys Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm getting one instead of an iPod because it's just a portable hard drive that doesn't use any drivers

      To use the ipod as USB storage you don't need any drivers (it's just a normal usb disk). To copy songs from/to the ipod, you do need an application that handles the ipod's music database (a few simple files on the ipod's usb-mounted disk), but there are several which you can put on the ipod itself and therefore have available to you where ever you go. Even if you really can't get any sort of program to run (e.g., a solaris box mounting it as a usb volume), you can still copy the music files normally, though you'll have a slightly harder time finding them, because the ipod renames/moves them to speed up the UI.

      Honestly, if your player doesn't have a centralized database, it will have a slow UI. The only way to quickly display meta-information (song title, and so on) is to have it in a central database. Otherwise you spend several seconds waiting for a menu to show up each time you make a selection.

      Ofcourse, if you're looking at the DMC offerings, likely you just want something to tinker with, and the ipod is definitely not good for tinkerers.

    16. Re:Bill buys Apple? by mfago · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How many iPods do you figure Apple gives to it's administrative assistants?

      Actually, Apple supposedly is going to give an iPod Shuffle to every single employee. Apple Store employees get them first -- good advertising.

    17. Re:Bill buys Apple? by mr100percent · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Apple to reward employees with free iPod Shuffles. "Seeing as last year we all received additional vacation time, an iPod shuffle is a small investment for a company to reward its employees for the best quarter in our history," remarked one employee.

    18. Re:Bill buys Apple? by BasilBrush · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You're right. Apple has no desire to support the Linux platform. Why should they, Linux is a very small miche on the desktop, and Apple has a small niche of their own to support. The Windows client was a necessity to reach 95% of the market. The Linux client isn't.

      But the linux community is used to writing it's own software. Write your own iPod client for Linux. If all you are wanting to do is transfer MP3s, it's not that hard.

      Or use your old Archaos Jukebox or buy another. No one really cares what you do.

    19. Re:Bill buys Apple? by jsebrech · · Score: 4, Insightful

      WMA is entirely ms-owned and not standardized, fairplay is a layer over MPEG4/AAC, which is standardized and not under apple's control.

    20. Re:Bill buys Apple? by AJWM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...Windows XP, no proprietary drivers required.

      Uh, what is Windows XP but one big proprietary driver?

      --
      -- Alastair
    21. Re:Bill buys Apple? by ThousandStars · · Score: 4, Insightful
      There is also the other factor of exposure to Apple products. The more consumers that buy Apple iPods, the more that may just buy a Mac Mini, eMac, iMac, iBook or PowerBook. That means less revenue to MS for their OS cash-cow.

      I seriously doubt MS is even remotely worried about this, since Apple would have to have five or ten times its present sales to even make a small dent. More importantly, I doubt any corporate clients are going to go Apple just because of the iPod and mini. Besides, they probably make as much if not more money from Apple users than they do from Windows users because of the price of MSO:Mac and VPC -- both of which I bought.

      Most importantly, however, MS can pull the plug on Apple anytime they want by eliminating MSO:Mac. Fact is, a whole lot of people, myself included, exist in a world dominated by MSO and need to interact with it; if Office:Mac didn't exist, I wouldn't own a PowerBook. Hell, if VPC didn't exist I probably wouldn't, because I also need Access.

      Any time MS wants to, they can effectively kill, or at least really marginalize, Apple with their MSO weapon.

    22. Re:Bill buys Apple? by Dav3K · · Score: 2, Informative

      Interesting. 'cause I have heard quite the opposite. MS employees are often forbidden to touch linux or anything GPL'ed so that there is no possibility of their code being influenced by it.

    23. Re:Bill buys Apple? by rjung2k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think there's a difference in Bill Gates' mind.

    24. Re:Bill buys Apple? by clarkcox3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      You read wrong. The iPod shows up as a standard USB or FireWire hard-drive.

      --
      There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
    25. Re:Bill buys Apple? by bahamat · · Score: 2, Funny
      Maybe the next-gen of DVD players will drop WMA and pick up AAC w/FairPlay.


      They can. Check out the next-gen of DVD players here. It's so advanced though it will only hook up to TV's with DVI input. You can get a composite video adapter though, for about $20.
    26. Re:Bill buys Apple? by kmudrick · · Score: 2, Informative

      The reason that would be important to me is because Apple does not have a Linux iTune client so I would have no way to get music onto an iPod from Linux.

      gtkpod is a GPL'd program that does just that. Works quite well with my 4th generation ipod and linux.

    27. Re:Bill buys Apple? by jacobcaz · · Score: 3, Interesting
      • Coke's employee base is very nearly fanatical in their loyalty to their product
      It's not just Coke/Pepsi. The husband of a lady I work with is employed by DPSUBG (Dr. Pepper, Seven-up Bottling group). One of their key products is Royal Crown cola (RC).

      When RC big-wigs are in town for a visit, the local account reps get a detailed agenda built, including all dining stops while said big-wig is in town.

      The local reps then work with the restaruants to make sure that RC and only RC is served in the presence of said Royal Crown big-wig.

      There is just about no place I know of in town that serves RC products. So this is a highly choreographed ritual they go through about twice a year. They even coach the hostesses and wait staff to offer an "RC" cola, not just a "soda" or even worse a "Coke".

    28. Re:Bill buys Apple? by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Insightful
      No questions asked, no fighting for your job. You get fired. This includes if your boss sees you at Pizza Hut, Taco Bell or KFC, since those entities are owned by TriCon, who also owns Pepsi.


      I'm not disputing you, because it sounds like something that could happen ....

      But how legal is this?? Surely to god eating at a Pizza Hut can't be considered valid grounds for termination.

      Can a company actually try to have sway on the stuff that you do outside of work to this extent? I know they try all the time, but this one just sounds obscene.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    29. Re:Bill buys Apple? by sg3000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > Hmm. I'd wondered why OS X still includes the same speech
      > synthesis engine as Mac OS 8. Do you know if there was a
      > time limitation on this agreement? It sounds really bad, and
      > Apple would do well to either drop it or replace it with
      > something a bit less dated (you can barely understand what
      > it's saying).

      I think you nailed this on the head; apparently that's why the speech capabilities haven't been improved since 8.

      I read the time limit was five years, which is why Apple is introducing the new spoken word interface for Tiger (due later this year).

      --
      Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
    30. Re:Bill buys Apple? by Bun · · Score: 2, Interesting

      At the end of the day Apple would act just like MS if it was in their position (and I'm not saying you would necessarily prefer Apple to be giving the 'DRM crap'). But all companies will be evil. Just the way of things.

      One documentary went so far as to compare corporations to psychopaths.

      --
      "Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack
    31. Re:Bill buys Apple? by BasilBrush · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lose face.
      Lose the game.
      Lose the money invested in R&D.
      Lose the money invested in Marketing.
      Lose the money investing in MSN music store.
      Lose market share in the desktop PC market because of the iPod halo effect.
      Lose still more of that reputation that they used to have that they never lose.
      Microsoft can certainly lose.

    32. Re:Bill buys Apple? by The+Infamous+Grimace · · Score: 2, Informative

      I thought the iPod locks out the music section and only allows you to use iTunes to transfer files to/from the iPod.

      Yes, it does, although I believe that with Windows you can still see the 'hidden' folders. To get around this with OS X, you can:
      Launch Terminal
      Type 'ln -s /Volumes/your_iPod_name_here/iPod_Control/Music/F* /* ~/Desktop/My_Temp_Files/'

      You now have shortcuts to all the music on your iPod via the 'My_Temp_Files' folder, which is located on your desktop, for convenience.

      To copy, again from the Terminal:
      cp -R /Volumes/your_iPod_name_here/iPod_Control/Music/ /full_path_to_destination_here

      (tig)
      --
      Ignorance and prejudice and fear
      Walk hand in hand
    33. Re:Bill buys Apple? by danielsfca2 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Besides, they probably make as much if not more money from Apple users than they do from Windows users because of the price of MSO:Mac and VPC
      Do you know how to count?
      From context, it appears the GP was indicating that Microsoft makes more on each Mac OS X user than on each Windows user. I base this on the fact that the conversation was on Apple stealing marketshare from Windows. Think about this: if the GP's thesis is true and each Mac OS X user gives MS more money than each Windows user, then increasing Apple marketshare, while surely still an ego problem, would result in greater revenue at MS. Now, is that thesis true? Perhaps. Assuming 0% piracy (and I would say piracy is far lower on the Mac platform than on Windows, so this is not a slanted assumption):

      Home machines:
      XP home OEM: $65 (average Internet price, and you know HP/Dell/GW2k get a serious break on it)
      MS Works, or similar, software for each home machine: $10 (assuming the OEM even buys the MS offering rather than a cheaper one.)
      Total revenue per Windows user: $75

      "Pro" machines:
      XP pro OEM: $100 (same disclaimer applies for real OEM pricing).
      Office OEM: $218
      (this is the SBE, the cheapest that has Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, and the extraneous Publisher. Basic, which excludes PowerPoint and Pub, can be had for $100 less.)
      Total revenue per Windows user: $318

      Mac users that buy MSO, or MSO+VPC:
      Office for Mac OS X: $399
      Virtual PC with Win2k: $249
      (2k is more usable on emulation than $30-cheaper XP Home)
      Total revenue per Mac user: $400 with MSO; $650 with VPC

      Well, you be the judge. It depends on piracy and on MSO's popularity on Mac OS X.
  2. I wonder... by BigDogCH · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder if Microsoft employees use a disproportionately large number of MACs, or are more likely to be Firefox users. I mean, fast food workers never want to eat where they have worked, and people who work at many factories refuse to buy products from that factory. Maybe they feel hatred towards their employer.

    1. Re:I wonder... by AddressException · · Score: 2, Funny
      • large number of MACs
      • The slashdot technique to debate: You misspeelled a word, so your arguement is dumber then me.

      No comment!
    2. Re:I wonder... by SpottedKuh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      [F]ast food workers never want to eat where they have worked.

      I have never worked in fast food, but I have worked in the food-preparation industry. And I can say that I am leery about eating anything from my former employer; and, it has nothing to do with hatred toward my employer. While it was only a summer job to get me through my first year of university, I had an excellent employer and the pay was good. Unfortunately, I saw the kind of sanitation practices that took place during the preparation of food (including, for example, people touching food with licked fingers).

      [P]eople who work at many factories refuse to buy products from that factory.

      This time I speak not from my own experience, but from that of a good friend of mine who worked at a pipe-fitting factory. While the factory and its management had strict safety protocols (regarding both its employees and its finished products), most employees blatently disregarded those protocols. Many close calls (including falling pipes barely missing people and chemical spills being sealed just in time) resulted from the lax attitude of most employees toward those protocols. More important for the consumer, though, many employees tried to slack off as much as possible, resulting in many pipes that were cracked or otherwise unusable, but were only discovered during the final phase of product quality checks. Arguably, with such an attitude prevalent, some faulty products must make it out of the factory. Hence, I would understand anyone's unease at buying from such a factory after seeing first hand (or, in my case, hearing second-hand) about the safety violations.

      Of course, one could argue that such issues would exist at almost any factory or any fast food restaurant (or, almost anywhere, quite frankly), but I suppose something about our perception of a particular location changes after having experienced the issues up close.

    3. Re:I wonder... by Quasar1999 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No... Fast food workers refuse to eat where they work for 2 reasons, first they know what goes in the food (scary stuff), and second they are sick of the taste and smell of it.

      Factory workers on the other hand... well, let's break that up, those who work in factories that produce foods, they once again see what goes into it... (that's very scary stuff, I've seen what goes into most cookies and crackers... most of the ingredients are also found in windex...) Now as for the other group, they simply know the flaws in the products their factory produces...

      In the case of Microsoft, their employees tried their product, found it inferior, and moved on. Don't forget, MS is a huge company, and you'll note the article specifically mentions that the media group is all using MS based players... that's probably due to fear of losing your job, rather than thinking your product is superior... but anyways...

      What I'm trying to get at, is that the don't feel hatred to their employeers as the parent tried to imply, they simply know a little too much about the product produced...

      --

      ---
      Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
    4. Re:I wonder... by BigDogCH · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On a side note, a friend of mine works at a factory that had a terrible rate of accidents and injuries. Two years ago, they instituted a new injury policy. If nobody gets hurt in a department for 1 year, then everyone there gets an extra days pay. If 2 years, then 2 days pay each. If 3...... Since then, not one single injury has happened. This is not entirely true, but people now don't report minor scratches (which before let them leave work early). Also, if you don't miss a day of work all year, you get $100 the first year, $200 the 2nd, etc.... It has worked great! My friends department has not had an injury in 2 years, and the average days missed went from 10/year down to 1.5/year. And it only cost the company a few hundred bucks, which they quickly make up for in not sending anyone to the hospital. Now if someone is doing something dumb, everyone complains to them, and shows them the better way. Maybe this wouldn't work anywhere, and it has it's flaws, but so far it seems great.

    5. Re:I wonder... by soft_guy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I wonder if Microsoft employees use a disproportionately large number of MACs, or are more likely to be Firefox users.

      No, they are not disproportionately Macintosh users compared to the rest of the software industry (unless they work for MacBU). No, they do not hate their employer. No, they are not more likely to use Firefox compared to other software professionals at other companies.

      I base this on having worked there in the past.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    6. Re:I wonder... by Rudeboy777 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      His sig is decrying the spelling/grammar naziism of Slashdot. He's basically excusing his own potential spelling mistakes and saying you should concentrate on the meat of a comment. No hypocrisy here.

      --

      From hell's heart I fstab at /dev/hdc

    7. Re:I wonder... by EpsCylonB · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your saying that working at Miscrosoft is a bit like working at MacDonalds ?

    8. Re:I wonder... by NaruVonWilkins · · Score: 5, Informative

      Excuse me - I'm in the media group, and the only people I know of on my team who have a portable media player have an iPod. In fact, some of the people who work on portable devices have an iPod. I can't speculate as to the reason, but I will point out that Apple is still ahead of the curve in releases. Sure, you can find a little Samsung device that has the same features as the Mini, but it's hard to find. Apple has their own store, and they're a much more recognized brand.

    9. Re:I wonder... by JudgeFurious · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In high school I spent about a three years working in fast food and it made a distinct impression on me. I worked at Popeye's, then McDonalds, and finally Chick-Fil-A and the only one of the three I'll go anywhere near now is Chick-Fil-A.

      The one I worked in was fanatically spotless. I don't know if it's all of them but a great many are owned by Uber-Christian franchise owners who are crazy about the clean and the lord. I didn't fit in with the majority of the crew there being a godless heathen and all but I'll give them points for being obsessively clean.

      I don't even want to think about, much less mention what I saw at Popeye's and McDonalds. I've tried hard to black those months out of my mind.

      --
      Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
    10. Re:I wonder... by danielsfca2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > we couldn't afford the food.

      When I was 17-18, I worked at Jack In The Box. It was my first job. I ate there all the time, and so did most of my coworkers. Everyone was very good about food handling there, so we weren't to. We got a 50% discount if we were working that day, and 20% discount on our day off. So on days I worked, I usually ate during work on my lunchbreak, and after or before work. If I was feeling broke, I just bought a 99-cent item like a Jumbo Jack or two tacos, so it was only 54 cents. Since I made $6.75/hour, a buck a day wasn't an unaffordable price.

      In 2003, though, I worked at a McDonald's in Massachusetts. I never once ate there, because of the "OMG the way they handle food here is so disgusting" factor.

      And as a final note, Disney doesn't give any of its theme-park employees any break on its ridiculously-priced, low-quality theme-park fast food. So considering the slave wages they pay, their employees literally can't afford the food. One meal would cost about two hours' pay. (this also from experience.)

  3. Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by Gob+Blesh+It · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Microsoft employee's open letter to Bill Gates almost made me choke. In case you haven't read it, let me paraphrase: "How do we make an iPod killer?" he asks rhetorically. "First we must harness the blogosphere!" he answers. "Then we'll design the interface by committee. Synergize, baby."

    Anyway, I found it interesting how clearly the note reveals (what seems to be) Microsoft's general thought process. Never lead, always follow. I mean, how pathetic is this sort of blatant, shameless me-tooism? While innovators like Apple are trying to build the future, Microsoft employees like this guy are trying desperately to catch up... and they still can't figure out how.

    Just my two cents from an Apple fanboy. Flame on...

    1. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by eln · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, while your characterization of Apple as a ceaseless innovator may be a little over the top, you do have a point about Microsoft, one that demonstrates the dangers inherent in a monopoly or oligopoly controlled industry.

      Microsoft doesn't innovate because they don't NEED to innovate. They know that they can be late to the party on a particular feature or product, and they will still be able to capture the majority of the market, because they can offer two things that no one else can possibly provide:
      1.) the strength of the Microsoft name, and
      2.) Seamless integration with Windows, a family of operating systems that over 90% of the public uses, and which only one company has full access to the internals of: Microsoft.

      If the innovation does not fit into a category that can be exploited in this way, Microsoft can either purchase and rebrand the technology, or develop their own clones and bury the competition in predatory pricing and overwhelming marketing.

      Why bother to innovate when it's so much easier not to?

    2. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by Geekenstein · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being a copycat has always been a strategic business move. Let some other company develop a product, spend countless revisions figuring out what doesn't work, have lots of expensive bombs and R&D costs. Then you simply make a cheaper version of the sucessful product without comitting your own resources to forging the path.

      That, my friend, is known as smart business.

      Need an example? Here's a quick one. Tivo and the satellite/cable PVRs. The content providers can do it cheaper, because they don't have those large R&D bills. Tivo, on the other hand, has to produce the product, pay the expenses incurred, and still somehow make a profit.

      The innovator is usually the one who ends up going out of business. Apple is (currently) the exception.

    3. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 3, Funny

      So apple invented the hard drive based mp3 player? Holy crap, that's amazing.

      You got served.

      --
      Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
    4. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by Leo+McGarry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So apple invented the hard drive based mp3 player?

      Basically, yeah.

      You know who invented the automobile? Depending on how you define the term, there are as many as half a dozen possible answers, none of them later than 1893.

      But do you know who really invented the automobile, for all practical purposes? That's right. Henry Ford, in 1908.

      Apple is to the iPod as Henry Ford is to the car.

    5. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by martian265 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, Apple invented a chic looking hard drive mp3 player that everybody assumed that you must be cool if you own one. And then they marketed with a series of bizarre and silly commercials that 90% of the people hated, but figured that the commercial must be so cool that they couldn't understand it and therefore they must buy an iPod to regain some of their coolness.

    6. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by HeghmoH · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Seamless integration with Windows, a family of operating systems that over 90% of the public uses, and which only one company has full access to the internals of: Microsoft.

      Hah! Windows doesn't even seamlessly integrate with itself, much less external products. Microsoft wouldn't know seamless integration if it hit them over the head while crying out, "Hello! I am seamless integration!"

      Of course, they can pretend, which convinces most people.

      --
      Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
    7. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by bwcarty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your iPod/car analogy is a bit off, but overall, you're right.

      The Wright Brothers are given credit for inventing the first heavier than air aircraft, but how often do you see their names attached to a brand?

      Mocking Apple because they didn't invent the mp3 based music player (or the online music store) is like discrediting Burt Rutan's work because he didn't invent the airplane.

    8. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by berchca · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you're being a little hard on Microsoft (whom I am not a big fan of and generally don't use their products.) While MS always seems to be holding the gun as the one coming up with the knock-off, it is a fact of life that in every industry a new product is either covered in patents (which have their own evils) or quickly reproduced.

      In fashion, it goes like this:
      1) Armani/Gucci/whomever releases new jeans that are actually worn to the point of looking stained.
      2) Next year, Levi's adds this to their lineup as their most expensive sort of jeans.
      3) A year after that, you buy them at Wal-Mart from brands you've never heard of in sizes Gucci wouldn't be caught dead making.

      In food it goes like this:
      A few months ago I was turned onto a food called the Portugeuse Muffin. No idea how it relates to Portugal, but it's become very popular. Made by a company out of Boston and hard to find. Not a few weeks ago I noticed Trader Joes was carrying their own version. And if it sells, I have not doubt that the Thomas Corperation, long established monopoly of the muffin business, will release their own, squashing the small Boston bakery under their unkind heel.

      Innovation only lasts so long. MS wants an iPod killer? Maybe. What about Creative? They want one pretty bad themselves.

    9. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by shut_up_man · · Score: 4, Funny

      This reminds me of an analogy that I read somewhere, perhaps from Robert X Cringely... it said there are three types of tech companies:

      1) The Commandos
      These guys are doing crazy new stuff in wacky situations, inventing and improvising and breaking new ground. They are happiest going where no-one has gone before, creating new products and whole new markets. If they aren't doing wild new stuff, they get bored and go somewhere else. In many ways, this is Apple.

      2) The Soldiers
      Soldiers go in once markets and products have been established by the commandos. They take these original ideas and solidify them, securing the area with polish and marketing glitz. In many ways, this is Microsoft.

      3) The Police
      Once the war is won, the Police maintain the status quo. They aren't interested in creating markets or inventing new products, they just want things to say the same and keep making cash for their organization. In many ways, this is Dell.

      Now I can see holes in these descriptions already, but I do get the feeling that Microsoft isn't in the insanely great new product business. It's risky, requires rare and volatile skills, and it doesn't end up making that much money in the long run. And that last point is the key, because Microsoft really isn't a tech company. They are a money company. They make tonnes and tonnes of money, and they don't care about the other stuff.

    10. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by gellenburg · · Score: 2, Informative

      The automobile was invented by Mr. Daihmler in Germany.

      Henry Ford invented the assembly-line which made mass-production of automobiles possibles.

      That is, if you wanted one in black.

      Apple did not invent the MP3 player.

      Apple mass-marketed an MP3 player that looekd good, was easy to use, and had the features consumers were craving.

      And no, the iPod doesn't *just* work with the iTMS.

      I use mine regularly with sites such as eMusic, Magnatunes, and other MP3 sites. iTunes likes those files just fine.

    11. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by eclectic4 · · Score: 4, Funny

      "The innovator is usually the one who ends up going out of business. Apple is (currently) the exception."

      Yes, that beleaguered company should be going out of business any decade now, I can feel it...

      --

      "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
    12. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by VoiceOfRaisin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      huh? henry ford is not thought of by anyone as the inventor of the car. he is the pioneer of assembly line manufacturing. thats why he is famous. not a very good analogy at all.

    13. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful
      So apple invented the hard drive based mp3 player?

      Basically, yeah.


      Apple had the first widespread success with one, but I seem to remember things like the Creative Nomad predating it by a matter of years, so completely untrue.

      You know who invented the automobile? Depending on how you define the term, there are as many as half a dozen possible answers, none of them later than 1893.

      But do you know who really invented the automobile, for all practical purposes? That's right. Henry Ford, in 1908.
      nobody. Ford was the first to mass produce 'em. There's a huge difference.

      Apple is to the iPod as Henry Ford is to the car.


      Well, "Apple is to the portable MP3 player what Henry Ford was to the car" might be closer to accurate. You've rather overmixed your metaphors and created a bit of a mish-mash.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    14. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by rjung2k · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Any moron can invent an MP3 player. Just look at all the cheapjack no-name players from Asia.

      It takes an Apple to invent a better MP3 player -- one that's so easy to use, all you have to do is plug it into your computer and it essentially does everything else.

      That is why the iPod is a raging success.

    15. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by jsebrech · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple invented the hard drive based consumer mp3 player. Before that the only people with HD-based mp3 players were geeks or early adopters, with players that catered to that crowd (advanced recording features, large physical dimensions to afford large disk sizes, extra geek stuff like ethernet interfaces, ...). The ipod made it possible to give your mom an mp3 player and have her make use of it with minimal guidance. This is because the entire "ipod experience" (and I know that's a laden term) fits together smoothly, from the first time you turn it on, over how you use itunes to put music on there, to actually putting on an album during daily use. There are no "tricks" you need to figure out. It all just works. This is incidentally why the windows ipod market didn't really take off until itunes became available on windows. The software before that was so horrible my mind has blanked out its name. Ah, yes, now I remember, musicmatch, which was anything but. *shivers*

      I have yet to see another HD-based mp3 player that has the entire package: a good player UI, good PC music management software, and an easy way to get almost any sort of music legally from the internet.

    16. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by Leo+McGarry · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All Ford did was introduce mass production methods to the automaking process

      All Ford did was turn the car from an experiment into a product that was soon owned by millions and that changed literally every aspect of life in the developed world. That's all. Nothing important there. Right?

      Apple really didn't invent the hard drive based MP3 player.

      For practical purposes, they did. They invented the music player that people actually bought.

      Your blah-blah about the "Hango PJB-100" is just about the funniest thing I've read all day. Because, you know, when you say "portable music player," the first thing to pop into everybody's mind is "Hango PJB-100."

      How different is this new-for-2005 device in concept than the original portable MP3 players of 1998?

      It's incredibly easy to use, and it's $99.

    17. Re:Representative of Microsoft's "vision" by orichter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And for the record, claiming that Henry Ford "practically invented the automobile" is still a false assertion. It would be no more true to assert Bill Gates invented computers and Al Gore invented the internet.


      Your statement is utter nonsense. What you say might be true if he claimed that Ford invented the automobile. What he said, however is that Ford practically invented the automobile after he explicitly stated that Ford did not actually technically invent the automobile. Read literally, his statement could be interpreted as, "Ford invented the practical form of the automobile," which is precisely true, though a little less wieldy. In the same way you could say correctly that Bill Gates practically invented the personal computer (i.e. he invented the form in which most people experience personal computers). Saying that Al Gore practically invented the internet, however, is not a proper comparison, and is simply untrue. Saying Tim Burners-Lee practically invented the internet, however, would make a reasonable comparison even though Burners-Lee didn't actually invent it. To deny this is to imply that the phrase "practically invented" has no meaning in the same way as the phrase "practically got pregnant" has no meaning. If that is what you are arguing, then we'll just have to disagree, but otherwise, you're being overly pedantic about a statement which clearly and consisely expressed what he was trying to express, which is after all the purpose of language. Are you honestly telling me that you couldn't figure out what the great-grandparent post was trying to say. If so, you really must have flunked that reading comprehension test.

  4. Why iPod anyway? by schestowitz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With SD Cards reaching 1GB in size, why don't people just use PDA's for music? A mystery or just an impending trend?

    --
    My Linux - (L)ove (I)s (N)ever (U)tterly eXPensive
    1. Re:Why iPod anyway? by dknight · · Score: 4, Insightful

      while PDAs have decent general-purpose use battery life these days, mp3s kill them pretty quick. besides that, they're still generally bigger than an ipod... pdas also tend to be more expensive and you still wind up with less space than an ipod.

    2. Re:Why iPod anyway? by yetdog · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One word: style. It's chic to have one of these, and it extends to the interface. A pretty looking piece of dung is still a piece of dung, but Apple has managed to take something that looks amazing and make it work just as it looks.

    3. Re:Why iPod anyway? by Jheaden · · Score: 3, Informative

      Two words... Battery Life

      Most PDAs I've used just don't have the battery life that a dedicated device has. I know mine doesn't (HP iPAQ 1945), although that is the low end of PDAs anymore.

    4. Re:Why iPod anyway? by astebbin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well.... considering the fact that my iPod has 40gb, and my Palm only has two, I'll go with the iPod. Plus, the iPod mini is smaller and fits easier in the pocket than a Microsoft PocketPC.

    5. Re:Why iPod anyway? by pdbogen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Interestingly enough: The lack of a good player, no worthwhile eyes-off interface, and battery life. My iPod lasts a lot longer than my PDA would, if my PDA were playing music (empirical evidence)

      That, and a 1GB SD card comes up on Froogle for $54. This is a third the price of the 1GB iPod shuffle, but does not include the cost of the playing device, which is almost certainly at least $100.

      So, you've got a comparably priced solution, with a worse interface, and shorter battery life. Of course, a PDA is still a PDA, in the end.. So it really depends on what feature set you are most interested in.

      Anyway, I have a 40GB iPod, which would be about $2,200 in SD cards, and it cost me less than $200 (thanks, freeipods.com)

    6. Re:Why iPod anyway? by foo12 · · Score: 2, Informative

      To match the capacity of an iPod, you'd need to buy 20, 1GB cards. That's about $1500 for media alone.

    7. Re:Why iPod anyway? by mingot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For me the attraction to the iPod (or at least hard drive MP3 players) is being able to put my entire music collection on it. I have about 19 gigs of music files and it's hard to get a decent subset of that because I'll inevitably want to hear a song I didn't put on the 1 gig sized playlist over the course of a day. Add that to the fact that I'm LAZY and don't want to waste time building a playlist every night and the "fire and forget" nature of the hard drive players become must have.

  5. Huh? by JamesD_UK · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Why is this particularly interesting? Should they should be using a digital portable music player made by Microsoft instead of Apple?

    The iPod is the most popular digital music player. It's fairly like that if you take any subset of the population that the iPod will also be their most popular player.

    1. Re:Huh? by colanut · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It is interesting because (from the goddamn article):
      So popular is the iPod, executives are increasingly sending out memos frowning on its use.
      Microsoft doesn't currently make hardware, but the sure as hell make a competing media format. Balmer and co have made a lot of noise about the iPod as well. But the point is, how can you make an Apple killer if your own employees are using the competition.
    2. Re:Huh? by Naikrovek · · Score: 2

      windows HAS competing products. that's why MS management appears to be getting a little chafed by the idea that their minions use a competing product.

      drop the wiseassery and RTFA next time.

    3. Re:Huh? by moonbender · · Score: 2

      No, they are clearly supposed to go out and get one of the players that supports PlaysForSure, Microsoft's DRM FUD scheme. Motto: "Look for the PlaysForSure logo on Windowsbased Media Connect devices. Match it to the PlaysForSure logo on the hottest online music stores and you'll know the music will play for sure."

      Note that the PlaysForSure site apparently is down, "An application error occurred on the server." Way to go, Microsoft!

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  6. headphones by Darth_brooks · · Score: 3, Informative

    Employees have even started using different headphones to be a bit more stealthy about it.

    Could be, or maybe they just don't want to get mugged. White iPod headphone do a great job of saying "I've got an expensive, easy to steal piece of electronics on me."

    Also, iPod headphones suck. after half an hour my ears started hurting with the old ones.

    --
    There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
    1. Re:headphones by profet · · Score: 2, Funny

      Could be, or maybe they just don't want to get mugged. White iPod headphone do a great job of saying "I've got an expensive, easy to steal piece of electronics on me."

      So thats why the iPod shuffle was released... Its all coming together now...

    2. Re:headphones by gotgenes · · Score: 4, Funny

      Could be, or maybe they just don't want to get mugged. White iPod headphone do a great job of saying "I've got an expensive, easy to steal piece of electronics on me."

      Exactly! 'Cause I know I certainly keep hearing about these muggings that happen to all these people wearing iPods in upper-middle class neighborhoods, schools, universities, and especially large, patrolled software giant campuses.

      ...

      --
      It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.
    3. Re:headphones by zieroh · · Score: 2, Funny

      Could be, or maybe they just don't want to get mugged

      Yeah, I hear that crime is a real problem on the Microsoft campus.

      Besides, employees mugging each other is just an outward symptom of working for a company that's mugging everyone else.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
  7. Could it be by CDOS_CDOS+run · · Score: 4, Funny

    Can you imagine people using the most popular product of it's kind?? I bet many of them drive HONDAS too!!!! What will Bill do?? Micorsoft doesn't compete with Apples Ipod, why would anyone at Microsoft care?

  8. Best comment ever, from a M$ manager by dmuth · · Score: 4, Funny
    Straight from the article:
    But at the Windows Digital Media Group, which is charged with software for portable players and the WMA format, using an iPod is not a good career move.

    "In the media group they all smoke the company dope on that one," the manager said.


    So a Microsoft manager is comparing their own products to mind-altering substances? I won't dispute that!

  9. Here comes Bill! by Pirogoeth · · Score: 3, Funny

    Quick! Put that thing away!

    --
    Happiness is like peeing yourself. Everybody can see it but only you can feel its warmth.
  10. RTFA by GillBates0 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Most of the competitors to the iPod use Microsoft software:

    Of course, Microsoft's software is used by dozens of competing music players from manufacturers like Creative Technology, Rio and Sony. Its Windows Media Audio, or WMA, format is supported by several online music stores, including Napster, Musicmatch and Wal-Mart.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  11. Re:What's the big deal? by jo_ham · · Score: 4, Informative

    Good god, this old chestnut again.

    Microsoft bought a small amount of non-voting stock in Apple some time ago as part of a deal that kept IE and Office on the Mac platform.

    Microsoft has long since sold those shares, at a fair profit I might add.

    Microsoft doesn't own any part of Apple at present.

  12. First Sign of Intelligent Life at Microsoft! by Zemplar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here you have it folks. Not everyone at Microsoft is hatching ill-conceived ideas; apparently it's only the Management.

  13. outside their firewall... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    MS has an unsecured network for test projects - a little bird told me that when launching iTunes on this unsecured network (from within the MS campus) you can see dozens, if not hundreds of shared iTunes libraries--all being shared by Rendezvous.

    1. Re:outside their firewall... by Queer+Boy · · Score: 3, Insightful
      when launching iTunes on this unsecured network (from within the MS campus) you can see dozens, if not hundreds of shared iTunes libraries--all being shared by Rendezvous.

      Microserfs have stated quite a few times that the Macintosh Business Unit (MacBU) is one of their most profitable divisions. They do little to no advertising for Microsoft Office on Macintosh and most of the innovations for the Windows version of Office are created by the MacBU, being implemented in the Mac version of Office first. Does the Windows version of Word have Notebook view yet?

      I'm not at all suprised that you would find a horde of iTunes shared libraries when they have a pretty healthy team working on a profitable product.

      --
      Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
  14. Insight into the campus here... by kneecarrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I actually work for Microsoft (gasp! and I also read Slashdot!). My cube-mate owns an iPod. I remember the week after MSN Music was launched, he took his iPod with him into the cafeteria. He was waiting in line to grab his lunch and noticed that people kept cutting in front of him in line. He couldn't figure out what the heck was going on until he realized the people cutting in front were all from the music division. They had seen the white earphones and were "punishing" him for going with the competitor.
    Sometimes people can be very petty here.

    --

    I always save my last mod point to mod up a good troll. You people are too serious.

    1. Re:Insight into the campus here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Microsoft is staffed entirely by cocks from what I can tell.

      No wonder their software is so full of holes.

    2. Re:Insight into the campus here... by Pendersempai · · Score: 4, Funny

      Holy cow. What an incisive summary of Microsoft's attitude, from the grandest corporate strategy all the way down to the microcosmic world of the individual employee.

    3. Re:Insight into the campus here... by mapmaker · · Score: 4, Funny
      My cube-mate owns an iPod.

      Are you saying that Microsoft employees have to share cubicles? You don't even get your own grey box to sit in?

    4. Re:Insight into the campus here... by spywarearcata.com · · Score: 2, Funny

      You mean you were a Microsoft employee...

  15. Amazing that corp security allows them by winkydink · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A 40Gb writable device that easily attaches to one's computer.

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

  16. What else is smuggled in? by CTO1 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Perhaps there are a few employees that are sneaking in Knoppix CDs disguised as AOL disks.

  17. Re:This makes no sense... by slimak · · Score: 5, Funny

    At my work, we are not allowed to use company resources for personal use. This includes playing audio CDs on our computers, playing digital audio on our workstations, etc. So a portable player is a good solution. I should probably not be posting to slashdot either...hmmm.

  18. Pulp fiction time by savagedome · · Score: 2, Funny

    The way Steve looked at it, this iPod was your birthright. He'd be damned if any of the slopes were gonna get their greasy yellow hands on his boy's birthright. So he hid it in the one place he knew he could hide something: his ass. Five long months, he wore this iPod up his ass and disguised himself on the Microsoft campus. Then when he left because of dysentery, he gave me the iPod. I hid this uncomfortable piece of metal up my ass for two more months. Then, after seven months, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the iPod to you.

    Make sure the wire coming out of the headphone jack is not too thick. Sometimes it hurts but I can tell you that once you use iPod, you will never go back.

    With apologies to Mr.Tarantino

  19. as usual, take wired with a grain of salt by sootman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Robert Scoble--one of the people mentioned in the article--has already written about it. "Personally there's no way that 80% of our employees own an MP3 player. I don't know what world that source is living in, but it's not the one I live in... the story is a non-starter. I know a lot of Apple employees who play Halo 2 too. Is that a story?"

    Ed Bott has some good comments too: "Now read the story. Read it carefully.... Note that the entire thingis based on an interview with one "high-level [Microsoft] manager who asked to remain anonymous." From this one source, we are able to calculate with confidence that 16,000 employees at Microsoft's Redmond campus own iPods... taking an offhand remark from an unknown source (who may or may not have a hidden agenda and who may or may not know what he's talking about) and extrapolating it to the entire campus is just silly...
    One thing they teach you in Journalism 101 is that when you have a single anonymous source, you don't have a story. That's still true."

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    1. Re:as usual, take wired with a grain of salt by gunnk · · Score: 2, Informative

      No --

      80% of MS employees have a player.
      80% of those employees have an iPod.
      Total number of employees on campus is 25,000.

      (0.8)(0.8)(25,000)=16,000

      The original article is correct.

      --
      Life is short: void the warranty.
    2. Re:as usual, take wired with a grain of salt by amichalo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I know a lot of Apple employees who play Halo 2 too. Is that a story?

      No, Apple employees playing Halo 2 is not a story, since Apple doesn't make anything to remotely compete with Halo 2, a video game only available on Microsoft's Xbox platform.

      If however, Apple employees were buying Windows PCs in order to play Halo (the original) which has been ported to OS X then that _would_ be a story.

      --
      I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
    3. Re:as usual, take wired with a grain of salt by sootman · · Score: 2, Informative

      >Well, it also asumes that 100% of all Microsoft employees have a music player, which I seriously doubt.

      No, it doesn't. God, how many times do we have to do this? The article may not be perfectly written, but here's what it says.

      "The source estimated 80 percent of Microsoft employees have a music player."

      and

      " 'About 80 percent of Microsoft employees who have a portable music player have an iPod,' said one source, a high-level manager who asked to remain anonymous. 'It's pretty staggering.' "

      Got it?

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  20. Re:What's the big deal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Microsoft bought a small amount of non-voting stock in Apple some time ago as part of a deal that kept IE and Office on the Mac platform.

    Microsoft has long since sold those shares, at a fair profit I might add."

    Actually, Microsoft 'bought' the nonvoting stock to prevent Steve Jobs from suing their ass over blatent rips of Quicktime that was brought to his attention while Owner / CEO of NeXT. It meant nothing to him at the time because he was a scorned man, having been fired by the company he started several years earlier. Once NeXT was bought up and he was brought on as a 'consultant', he was once again in a position to care about Apple's goings-on and layed it on the line with Bill that Microsoft was going to be sued and even at their weakest, Apple had several billion in the bank (and to this day, in a much more liquid form than Microsoft).

    As such, it was deemed that Microsoft would save face by 'investing' almost a billion in nonvoting stock that should have by all means been worthless after a few years with Apple's then track record, but at the same time, no one expected SJ to make a return as he had (most expected at the time, he'd transition NeXT to Apple and go to the next little 'big thing' he had planned). This also helped in the rublings of the Antitrust suit in Microsoft's advantage.

    Microsoft was never supposed to make any money, but it nearly doubled their investment by the time they cashed out.

    I got this info from one of the higher ups at Apple at a conference about the time of the investment...but as I'm posting as an AC, you should take this with a grain of salt.

  21. I can only imagine.... by astebbin · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Hey! You with the iPod, put it away right now!"

    "Yes sir, sorry sir."

    "Ok, just make sure it never happens again. Wait a minute... is that Knoppix running on your workstation?!? Bill, for the last time..."

  22. MSN Music employee here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    And I highly doubt anyone on this team would cut in line at the cafe because someone had an iPod. Many of us have iPods and other players. We don't discriminate.

    1. Re:MSN Music employee here... by mbbac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, why are you an Anonymous Coward if there is no stigma attached to using an Ipod at Microsoft?

      --

      mbbac

    2. Re:MSN Music employee here... by micromuncher · · Score: 2, Funny

      Note - We don't discriminate [we cut everyone off.]

      --
      /\/\icro/\/\uncher
  23. Re:This makes no sense... by jargoone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Because all my music is on my portable. I am not permitted to have my music collection on my work system. A DVD would work, but I would still need 4 of them, and I'm too lazy to switch. I have my iPod on me anyway, I just get here and drop it into the dock. Plus, I don't lose my music when I reboot with a newly-built kernel. :-)

  24. Re:No by SunFan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why the hell would they use Macs?

    Everyone needs a role model.

    --
    -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
  25. Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work for a small group in Sony. At least half the group has iPods. I'm the only non-iPod user that I know of. I have an iRiver.

    This is pretty sad as unlike Microsoft, we actually MAKE a player and get a substantial employee discount.

    (Posted anonymously for obvious reasons.)

  26. You've never been to MS, have you? by Bobdoer · · Score: 2, Interesting
    There are people other than programmers and testers out there. Some managers have to cross campus repeatedly to get to their meetings.



    And this may come as a surprise to you, but some people there even like to play sports and stay in shape! Not everyone there is a stereotypical /.er. ;)

  27. experiencemore must be an internal site... by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Informative

    The link in the article that the manager pointed employees to, http://experiencemore, doesn't seem to resolve to anything here - I wonder if that's an internal site, and what is on it? Or perhaps they just messed up the URL.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:experiencemore must be an internal site... by The+Hobo · · Score: 2, Informative

      If a website contains no TLD or main site name (for example microsoft.com) it assumes it's on a local intranet, so yes it is an internal site, for example here I can type http://ece/ and it will show me the page you would see at http://www.ece.uwaterloo.ca since I'm on the uwaterloo.ca domain's computers

      http://experiencemore is likely just an internal pointer to this site
      For your information, the same applies for mail servers, so if I send an email from this mail server using the local email service (not a webmail thing like hotmail) I can send an email to a person by sending it to user@engmail for example which, to a person outside the University network would have to user@engmail.uwaterloo.ca

      Hope this was helpful, if you already knew, I'm not trying to sound condenscending...

      --
      There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
  28. Re:No by geoffspear · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And I suppose the Mac version of Office is developed on Windows machines and never tested?

    --
    Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
  29. why its an issue by micromuncher · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anyone who's been on the campus knows what I'm talking about...

    On campus, you gotta eat the dog food. Its the only dog food in town. No one else makes dog food. If they did, its five years old.

    In the data visualization group, Java was a currio. One member has Java books on his shelf dating back to 1997. That's the last time it was interesting, because its not the company dog food.

    So... why is it an issue? Because the blinders are comming off. All that propaganda that the boys and girls are told about the company being the only company, and the only one that does cool things, is starting to look like its passed through a reality distortion filter.

    Is there a reason why the bungie guys play golf facing towards the main parking lot?

    I remember when Wang had the ad "Wang: the chink in IBM's armor."

    How about "Apple: in the ear on Microsoft's eve."

    --
    /\/\icro/\/\uncher
  30. Re:Corporate culture "trickles down" that way by garcia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At another "campus," seeing that would have provoked a positive ton of good-natured ribbing. The person with the iPod would have given some back, and in the end maybe the music division would have gotten a(nother) quick sense of why even an MS employee could have made that choice. Might have resulted in an actual competitive advantage for the eventual MS product.

    Oh barf. Who fucking cares? If the original scenario actually happened you know what I would have done? Walked away. You know why? Because I just don't get involved in the petty little bullshit that goes on with workplace drama.

    If Suzy is banging Mark after work who the fuck cares? If Amy is wearing the same clothes as Jenny but only less expensive versions I just don't care.

    Stupid, petty, childish, work-place drama exists everywhere. There's no need to whine about it online and there's certainly no need to bring it up on Slashdot just because it has MSFT, Apple, and iPod contained in the story.

    Use whatever fucking MP3 player you like. Drive whatever car you want. Fuck whoever you want to fuck. Keep your mouths shut about what other people do unless it has some direct impact on your fucking job.

  31. Re:BULLSHIT! by Warlock7 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wow, couldn't use your real name? What's the matter Ballmer? Were you afraid that somebody would castigate you for it? Eh, MonkeyBoy? :P

  32. Motorola CEO gave away free phones by mrm677 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Back when I used to work at Motorola in Schaumburg, the CEO sent out a company-wide email saying how he was displeased at the number of employees seen with Nokia and other non-Motorola phones. So he offered free Motorola phones to the first 1,000 employees that responded and urged the rest to buy a Motorola.

    He was especially pissed at the salesmen, trying to sign the big carriers to promote Motorola phones, who had Nokia's hanging from their belt! Makes sense for the visible people I guess.

  33. Shocking! by Anita+Coney · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The most popular portable music player in the world is the most popular portable music player on Microsoft's campus?! How is that possible?!

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  34. Whatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So, uh, speaking as a Microsoft employee who does own an iPod and does use different headphones... when I got my iPod Mini (back when they were downright impossible to acquire), coworkers were always stopping by saying "Oh, you got one of those, they're so cool" and asking to try it out and stuff. I started using different headphones because the ones they came with, while nice, didn't do a very good job blocking out external sound. I've never gotten crap for using one.

    I don't know where you people get the idea that everyone here drinks the Kool-Aid. We make Office for Mac, remember? People talk about their Macs at home all the time, make fun of MSN Search for sucking, listen to music on their iPods, run FireFox, and play Nintendo / Sony video games. It's not a cult

    As for the guy that was using his iPod in the cafeteria, what the hell? It's lunch. Go with some friends. Talk. Socialize. Maybe people were cutting in front of him because he looks like a freakin' dork listening to music while buying food.

  35. apple doesn't "innovate" by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The innovator is usually the one who ends up going out of business. Apple is (currently) the exception.

    I don't think Apple does much innovation of that kind anymore. They seem to have taken another track to the typical "lead, follow, or..." paradigm: taking something that exists, and making it cool. Did they invent the portable music player? No, they made it cool and really usable.

    Also, just to nitpick: TiVo supplies DirecTV's PVRs. I think TiVo is here to stay. But I realize you could have picked 1000 other examples that supported your thesis.

    1. Re:apple doesn't "innovate" by OhPlz · · Score: 3, Informative

      TiVo may be a dead duck soon. DirecTV did not renew their contract with them. Their chairman and president just bolted. His example does support his thesis.

    2. Re:apple doesn't "innovate" by Scudsucker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As I just said to an AC, you seemed to have confused innovation with invention, because hell yes they innovate.

      Did they invent the portable music player?

      See what I mean? No, they weren't the first to make one, they just made a player that had a capacity hundereds of times greater than the flash players of the time, at a fraction of the size of the desktop-hardrive based players such as the Arcos. That's innovation.

  36. bottom up versus top down by jhwang · · Score: 3, Insightful

    shows the power of demand-driven bottom-up interest in digital music players versus the top-down directives from a supplier (i.e., marketing initiatives from the corporate office). the most successful marketing campaigns mix top-down from the supplier and the bottom-up from the consumer of course. in this case, microsoft is out of that product loop with their own employees.

    And the posters above who claim that microsoft is not competing with Apple, you're wrong. In a narrow sense, it's true that Microsoft does not sell a portable music device. In a larger sense, Microsoft IS competing with Apple when it comes to digital consumer entertainment platforms.

    That is why Microsfot has spent more than a year denigrating the iPod and promoting its "open" audio format and associated MP3 players. This is why microsoft has been pushing "http://www.digitaljoy.com/" at CES.

    Just because Microsoft does not manufacture Intel hardware, are you going to say Microsoft doesn't compete with Apple b/c Apple sells computers? Sheesh!

  37. Consider your source by nick_davison · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Robert Scoble--one of the people mentioned in the article--has already written about it. "Personally there's no way that 80% of our employees own an MP3 player. I don't know what world that source is living in, but it's not the one I live in...

    He went on to state, "Personally there's no way that 80% of our employees use more than 640k of ram. I don't know what world that source is living in, but it's not the one I live in..."

    Because, after all, if someone at Microsoft doesn't recognise people's usage patterns and habits, it can't be true.

    Remember, this is the same guy who stated, "3) Pay whatever big money it'll take to get ... Elton John ...[and] Shania Twain to work on designing an entirely new player from the ground up." link

    I don't know what world he lives in. I don't think I want to. I do know they'd have fabulous, sequined and ruffled, faux 17th century french MP3 players with a disneyfied country theme. Kind of like Euro Disney, when you think about it. That's enough to tell me I don't want to live there.

    Just because a source contradicts the original, it doesn't make it a good one.

  38. Shhhhh... don't say it...! by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Could it be ... could it be you've come up with a worthwhile reason why we have patents?

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  39. I wonder... by BigDogCH · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Rudeboy, you are my hero. I put that sig on a few days ago when the grammer nazis were driving me nuts. I thought it was simple, yet nobody grasps it. Do I need to reword it? I am sick of people worrying more about spelling than content. I do not have perfect spelling, and I make mistakes. I post here searching for someone to discuss/debate with, yet all I run into is idiots. Should I mention that I have a teaching degree (that always draws out the grammar psychos)?

  40. Its called Group Policies by lysium · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Unlike you, Microsoft knows the full power of Group Policies, and how the entire network can be configured to deny installation of external devices. Resorting to imperfect physical security would only annoy employees while failing to protect against cursory concealment techniques.

    --
    Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
    1. Re:Its called Group Policies by pmhudepo · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Resorting to imperfect physical security [...]

      As opposed to, say, perfect technological security?

  41. Re:This makes no sense... by nine-times · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It's not that unusual, really. Many companies have a policy on the books, at least, that says something along the lines of "employees have no right to use company assets for personal use". This means that you have no right to use your computer to play music, and no right to use the internet connection or e-mail service for anything not-work-related.

    There are some good reasons for this. First of all, it's the rationale that justifies things like web and e-mail filtering, restricting employees from installing spyware, etc. Basically, it's not your computer. It's the business's computer, and they can do with it as they please.

    Now, how severely enforced this policy is is a different matter. I've uninstalled spyware and deleted pirated software/music from computers. I've even deleted large portions of legal mp3 collections when a user complained that their computer was "broken", and it turned out their 40 GB hard drive was filled with 35 GB of music. I've filtered out inappropriate web sites and viewed user e-mail without explicit permission from that user. I would usually warn the user, but if it's not feasible, I don't feel that I've wronged them by doing these things.

    Why? Bottom line: it's not your computer. If you don't want your mp3 collection deleted, don't put it on the company's computer. If you don't want me to be able to read your e-mail, don't use the company's e-mail. If you don't want me to know what you look at online, don't use the company's internet connection. I tell everyone this upfront, too.

  42. "A single anonymous source" by Cr0w+T.+Trollbot · · Score: 2, Funny
    "One thing they teach you in Journalism 101 is that when you have a single anonymous source, you don't have a story."

    Well, you'll never get a job at CBS with THAT attitude, young man!

  43. Simple solution, it seems to me by Brent+Nordquist · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If they're really serious about "eating their own dog food," they should can the executive grumbling and hinting. They should just give every employee (outside the Mac group maybe) a free MP3/WMA/whatever player, one that reflects the corporate goals, and then ban the iPod on campus. Why go halfway? It only makes them appear unable to stem the tide of what's cool... far worse PR than if they'd said nothing.

    If they won't do that, then shut up and let the employees use what they want. And maybe try to actually innovate and create a product with an experience that will draw them back.

    --
    Brent J. Nordquist N0BJN
  44. Not like Coke employees drinking pepsi. by HockeyPuck · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a Coke employee, if I brought a pepsi product to work (say as part of my brown bag lunch), it's looked down on pretty harshly. It's almost to the point of being grounds for termination. It's not just a can of pepsi soda, but any of Pepsi's brands (chips, snacks, fruit juices etc...).

    MSFT doesn't fire people for wearing iPODs...

    1. Re:Not like Coke employees drinking pepsi. by richieb · · Score: 5, Funny
      As a Coke employee, if I brought a pepsi product to work ....

      It's much worse when a Pepsi employee tests positive for coke....

      --
      ...richie - It is a good day to code.
  45. Shenanigans by Smilin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think I'm obligated by fate to respond to your post. See I work at Coke and my last job was at Microsoft :D

    It is definately a career limiting move to use a Pepsi product at Coke as it should be. Everyone knows better so it's not an issue. It's a very cutthroat rivalry and just like you won't find an Eagles player wearing a Patriots jersey, you won't find a Coke employee holding a can of Pepsi.

    As for iPods at Microsoft.. I call bullshit on the whole article. MS doesn't give a crap if people use iPods. The guys there are the most technology saavy group you'll find anywhere. The iPod has a natural appeal to them. Employee happiness is a huge priority for MS and it helps them retain great talent. They won't jeopardize it over something silly like that.

    So Shenanigans on that article!

    1. Re:Shenanigans by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Insightful
      For me the significance of the article wasn't the "carrer limiting move" part. It was the point that even in a "technology saavy group", who have a built in bias to prefer Microsoft related products, all else being equal. Even there, 80% of users choose iPods of all the WMA playing devices that Bill's so keen on.

      It rather proves the point of which technology is best, and which is doomed to fail.

  46. Re:Changing headphones isn't so bad.... by michrech · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's a competing product becuase MS licenses the .wma stuff to third parties to put into their MP3 players.

    It's also a competing product becuase MS has the MSN Music Store -- and guess what. It doesn't work with Apple's iPod.

    --
    bork bork bork!
  47. Bill using iPod in Teen Beat by Sophrosyne · · Score: 5, Funny

    A little image I fixed up in photoshop :)
    Here

    1. Re:Bill using iPod in Teen Beat by Sophrosyne · · Score: 2, Funny

      Also did a blue screen pic for the other one:
      here

  48. Microsoft? Understand? by rjung2k · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes but maybe Microsoft understands that one of the tools to competion is understanding why your opponents are ahead.

    This is a joke, right? In Microsoft's entire history, their responses to a competitive threat are:

    1. Buy 'em out.
    2. Stomp 'em out.

    There's nothing in there about "understanding"; all problems are nails, and they've got a sledgehammer.

    What's really pissing off MS right now is that none of these tactics will work w/r/t Apple and the iPod.

  49. Re:What's the big deal? by naelurec · · Score: 2, Informative

    I was curious, so I looked up the 10-Q for Apple in summer of 1997..

    Even though they were struggling (year over year), they still had over $1 billion in cash assets, $212 in short term investments, $1.2 billion in A/R .. this compared to around $1.9 billion total current liabilities.

    Granted, compared to the latest 10-Q you can see they are definitely more financial secure right now.. but at the time, I don't think they necessarily needed the cash infusion to stay afloat -- they still had quite a bit of flex room.

  50. subject by McBeer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A microsoft recruiter came by my school a couple days ago showing off some new digital media player toy that that microsoft came up with. When students started comparing it to the iPod, he admitted that we should probably just get Ipods if we didnt' care about pictures or music.

    --
    Hikery.net - The best hiking site ever. Made by yours truly.
  51. Re:PC competition for I-Mini dotMAC? by Theaetetus · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I understand misspelling the name...but, what does the capitalization have to do with how you spell mac, Mac, or MAC? All the same to me? I just take it in context as to what they're talking about...

    Because, Cayenne- actually, can I just call you CAY? Because, CAY, a nickname for something, such as "Mac" for "Macintosh" is just a nickname, not an acronym, and with all capitals, readers think it actually is one; when people see me call you CAY, they'll thing it's something like "Computer-Adept Youth", rather than your name.

    Clarity really is important, particularly in text communications.

    -T

  52. GM by trailerparkcassanova · · Score: 3, Interesting

    GM encourages their employees to ask for non-GM cars when renting so as to check out the competition. You steal ideas where you can find them.

  53. Funny geography by javacrypto · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One part of the article mentions Bellingham, WA:

    "iPod shipments to Apple's nearby store in Bellingham."

    But another part mentions the Bell Square mall:

    "the gal at the Bellevue Square Apple Store"

    If you know your Washington geography, you know that the Bell Square mall is in Bellvue, right next to Redmond. However, Bellingham is 2 hours to the north, near the Canadian border.

    At first I could not figure out why all the Softies were driving all the way up to Bellingham to get their iPods, but this looks like a mistake in the article itself. This does not mean that the whole article is wrong, but just this part.

  54. Re:Changing headphones isn't so bad.... by yourexhalekiss · · Score: 2, Informative

    The iPod headphones scream yuppie. I know people who have been mugged for wearing them; if they've got an iPod, and don't mind showing the world how hip and tech-conscious they are, who knows what more expensive gadgetry they have on them?

    /Owns an iPod, loves it, is scared/too embarassed to wear the headphones.

  55. Brand loyalty by employees, or else... by jasenj1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That your desire for a tasty burrito is stronger than your concern over being Coke's bitch every moment of your life.

    - Jasen.

  56. The difference between a smart co and a dumb co... by otis+wildflower · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... Is that the smart co will see this and say 'how do we make our own dogfood better than this?', then go out and do it.

    The dumb co will see this and put out a memo telling folks it's a CLM.

    Gosh, I wonder which way this will go?

    (And yes, I know M$ doesn't build the player hardware, but they _could_.. I mean, they build good HW (xbox, kynds, mice, joysticks)...)

  57. Re:Why would you care? by Trespass · · Score: 3, Funny

    That was you!?

  58. Not the same thing. by TiggertheMad · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Coke and Pepsi compete. Microsoft and Apple don't really compete. Microsoft makes software, Apple makes hardware. True, the PC is viewed as MS domain, but MS doesn't actually manufacture the hardware. On this specific topic, MS doesn't have a product to compete with the Ipod. Sure, .wma is the format that MS would like to see adopted as the standard format for media content, but they aren't actually selling content in that format.

    MS even makes software for Apple computers. This would be akin to Coke making drink holders for Pepsi products if the analogy held true.

    When I worked at MS, I used to get a kick out of wearing an imac shirt I got from an apple vendor a couple of years ago. Most people wouldn't give it second notice, but every now and then, a clueless drone would make a comment. Now if I showed up with wearing a 'Linux Roxorz MS Boxorz!' shirt, I'm sure that would raise a few eyebrows....

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  59. Re:What's the big deal? by Reverberant · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sigh... we've been through this before

    Apple demanded $1.2 billion from Microsoft for alleged patent infringements...

    The negotiations that resulted led to a strategic agreement between the two companies in August 1997, one part of which called for Microsoft to invest $150 million in Apple and for Apple to install Microsoft's Internet Explorer as the default Web browser for its customers... As part of his videotaped deposition, however, Microsoft Chairman and CEO Bill Gates testified repeatedly that his primary goal was to resolve the patent issues with Apple and obtain a patent cross license.

    Straight from the horse's mouth.

  60. Re:This makes no sense... by nine-times · · Score: 2, Informative
    I agree that I don't see the purpose of restricting users ability to listen to music CDs, except for two things. First, in the abstract, it's their property and they have the right to do it. That doesn't mean it makes sense, but you have the right to do nonsensical things with your own property. Second, it's possible that there is a good reason for this restriction you and I aren't thinking of.

    I've disabled and even removed CD drives from machines. Usually, it's because I was making a kiosk that would sit in a public place. However, I can remember one instance where the employee kept loading games onto his machine (ones that could be run after copying, without an install, so locking down permissions didn't help).

    The guy complained his computer was slow and getting errors, and it turned out to be a bunch of games running in the background. When we told him to close his games, he complained to his supervisor that we wouldn't "fix" his computer, and we explained to the supervisor that he was playing games. Rather than fire the guy outright, the supervisor asked us if we could keep him from playing games. I disabled his CD drive.

    So all I'm saying is, having worked in IT but not knowing the specifics of this situation, I can't completely rule out the possibility that there's a reasonable (non-draconian) explanation as to why they wouldn't allow employees to use their computers for playing music.

  61. Hold it right there, pre-iPod HD players? by Paradox · · Score: 3, Insightful
    And there were many MP3 players (both harddrive and otherwise) out before the iPod. Creative had at least half a dozen different models alone.
    Stop right there. If memory serves me correctly, the only notable entry in the world of large-capacity HD-based was the Nomad Jukebox. Rememebr that thing? Dumb as a brick and twice as heavy? The old, "Pray you get 3 hours of battery life" Nomad Jukebox?

    Haha. Very funny. Sorry, not a fair comparison.

    What Apple came up with was a high-capacity affordable music player with an interface that no one has betterted, to date, along with a weight/form/design factor that sits in an optimal tradeoff zone. They also championed a tight integration into a general music suite (as opposed to a separate tool that works on files).

    Oh yeah, and then Apple built the music store into the same client that plays the music, organizes the music, and syncs your iPod. So far only iTMS and MusicMatch even try to do this as more than a token gesture, and it's hard to argue for MusicMatch over iTMS.

    If that's not enough to make it an "innovation" then I don't know what is. Did carriage builders complain that the automobiel was really their invention, just without the engine and obedient steering?

    --
    Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
    1. Re:Hold it right there, pre-iPod HD players? by Have+Blue · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh yeah, and then Apple built the music store into the same client that plays the music, organizes the music, and syncs your iPod. So far only iTMS and MusicMatch even try to do this as more than a token gesture, and it's hard to argue for MusicMatch over iTMS.

      This is really the most brilliant thing Apple did, and it's obviously a strategy they had been working on for years as iTunes predated the iPod by quite a long time. The one-two combination of the leading playback hardware and the leading music store have raised a tremendous barrier to entry across the entire digital music market. No other music store stands a chance when their songs can't play on the most popular hardware, and other hardware is at a huge disadvantage when they can't play existing collections of ITMS music and can't be used to buy from the ITMS in the future (don't forget that you don't need to have an iPod to start buying from the music store). It's going to take simultaneous revolutions on the order of the original iPod and iTunes combined to break this kind of lock, and it's unlikely that will happen anytime soon.

    2. Re:Hold it right there, pre-iPod HD players? by Leo+McGarry · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also, the silly wheel metaphor is OK I suppose, but at least on the 4g is way too sensitive on some menus and not sensative enough in others. Tuning is required here.

      Or, possibly, reading the fucking manual.

      The scroll wheel is shaped like a doughnut, right, with an inner edge and an outer edge. If you run your finger around the inside edge of the wheel, the cursor moves quickly. If you run your finger around the outside edge it moves more slowly. If you run it in the middle, it moves at a speed between the two extremes.

      Back when the Mac was first introduced, it came with a fairly lengthy tutorial on how to use the mouse. It taught people things like "if you reach the edge of your desk, pick the mouse up and move it back to the center." If you didn't have this instruction, you'd be just as frustrated with a mouse as you are with a scroll wheel.

      (As for the rest of your blather ...in your opinion, everything that's good about the iPod and iTunes is really bad, and everything that's bad about the competition is really good. I'm starting to suspect that you're just trolling.)

  62. M$ paid for my iPod by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I was intern at Microsoft in Summer 2003. At the end of the summer, my group bought me a 15GB iPod, and it was paid for with the group's morale budget.

    I don't think this is a big deal on campus, and I suspect most people replace their headphones because the ones that come with the iPod aren't all that great.

  63. Paul "I Love Microsoft FOR LIFE" Thurrott's reply by very · · Score: 4, Informative

    Paul "The Microsoft's Whipping Boy" Thurrott sez:
    "Hide The Truth, Here Comes Leander Kahney
    Leander Kahney is a reporter for Wired News. I've been doing a little research into him lately, after being hugely disappointed with his book "Cult of Mac," which is a collection of his Mac-oriented Wired articles. The problem? Kahney's not into facts. Instead, he likes to sprinkle his articles with anecdotal evidence and quotes from a single source, which he then sells as facts. No big deal, right? I mean, that's what most bloggers, tech new aggregator sites, and Mac news sites do too. Sure. But the problem is that Kahney writes for Wired. And thus, he is representing a respected source. That is, people believe this crap."


    Read more @: http://www.internet-nexus.com/

    Honestly, who in the right mind would want to believe Paul Thurrott?

    Has Paul Thurrott even realized that he is the Rush Limbaugh of Microsoft?

  64. Slashdot History: Apple releases iPod by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Posted by CmdrTaco on Tuesday October 23, @11:20AM
    from the well-thats-not-very-exciting dept.


    The BrownFury writes "At an invitation only event Apple has released their new MP3 player called the iPod. iPod is the size of a deck of cards. 2.4" wide by 4" tall by .78" thick 6.5 ounces. 5 GB HDD, 10 hr battery life, charged via FireWire. Works as a firewire drive as well. Works in conjunctions with iTunes 2. Here are Live updates". No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

    First iPod article on slashdot.

  65. Headphones for stealth? by Thaelon · · Score: 2, Informative

    Bullshit. Those crappy white headphones that come with it suck balls and you should only use them if you think the iPod is a status symbol rather than a solid device. People aren't using other headphones to hide the fact that they're using an iPod. They're using other headphones because the white ones suck ass.

    They hurt and if you have to take them out - which, being a portable device you probably will frequently - they have to be held onto or something so they don't flop to the ground. Get a set of headphones that have some sort of connection between the two earpieces so they can be quickly hung around your neck and then replaced just easily.

    Newsflash Apple, people's ear canals aren't round.

    I prefer Sony MDR-A44L's over anything but currently it costs half as much to have another pair shipped (mine finally broke after 5 years of abuse) as it does for the headphones themselves. Like $15 headphones with $7 shipping. grrrrr

    My second favorite pair is are these Yamaha studio-like ones that are remarkably light and comfortable enough to wear for 8+ hours (as are the MDRs), but with a 6' cord. However they are basically like a pair of ear muffs they can make your head too hot in a hot room (my office is).

    I miss my MDRs.

    --

    Question everything

  66. Re:need competition ... that they can control by suckmysav · · Score: 2, Interesting

    " Microsoft needs pretend competition. Rather than let the "alternative types" go off the the uncontrollable Linux, Bill Gates can contain them in the Apple world."

    It's true. It's like when I used to play Civilisation a lot, I used to play it with the goal of making the highest population (number of citizens) I could possibly make, which basically meant wiping out all the other nations and planting cities on every possible square of land.

    But here's the thing, if you wiped out all your competitors completely then it was game over, much like it would be for Microsoft and their tenuous anti-trust situation. So what I would do would be to leave one enemy city alive (usually on a tiny single square sized island and stick a few battleships next to it to keep it totally isolated. That way you can keep playing the game and build up your massive mono-culture and the competition doesn't bother you much but is just enough to stop the game from continuing.

    --
    "You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"