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National PC Recycling Plan Proposed, Again
ThinSkin writes "Two U.S. Representatives have proposed a bill to resuscitate a national recycling program for electronic waste, following the successful launch of two state-run programs. The bill would create the National Computer Recycling Act, and if approved by Congress and signed into law, would tack on a $10 administrative fee to the sale price of computers and monitors to fund recycling efforts."
Where (and how) do they draw the line? Desktop computer > laptop > palmtop > wristwatch > implant ... maybe it would be better to charge by mass or percentage value (a laptop != a Cray).
I'm not criticising goal of this law, just curious how an arbitrary line is drawn. Arbitrarily is my guess.
I guess I'm in support, I don't see $10 as being that bad. It's for a good cause, right? ;-)
What constitutes a "computer"? And do parts count?
That the government is going to pocket the $10 per system, while people continue to throw the computers in the trash because it's not worth their time/effort? I know that's not how it's supposed to work, but that's likely what is going to happen here. Leave it to representatives to find more ways to tax us.
BTW, I have two old monitors that I plan on paying to recycle pretty soon instead of irresponsibly throwing them in the dump. But I don't expect the government to tell me I need to pay a fee upfront to do this.
And really how toxic are the components that are in printed circuit boards anyway? Yes they use lead in the solder (for the next yew years), but there really isn't that much used all together. Most of the toxic stuff is the chemicals that go into production of these boards.
The organizations have the right to recycle and/or resell the used PCs, which must be performed in accordance with in accordance with environmental health laws.
1. Tax 10 bucks on each computer purchase
2. Use that money to resell old PCs
3. ??
4. Profit!
If computers are made more expensive it only means that everyone with any given bugdet will have to buy a less efficient one, which in turns means longer computations, ergo more power usage. More power means more oil and its associated problems like the greenhouse effect, wars, polution, poverty, etc. Isn't it just counterproductive to use more oil and produce more toxic waste that escapes to the atmosphere forever in order to solve a problem of a "waste" in the form of self-contained expensive hardware which can always find a second-hand market in the developing areas? Computers are not like cars. A CPU that has been working for ten years is unlikely to stop working any time soon and what's more important is that until it breaks it works just as well as when it was new. What exactly is the point of this new legislation if not a new way to add another hidden tax?
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
This should be a state-by-state decision and a state run program. We do not need the federal government adding one more program to the laundry list of programs that they already don't run efficiently. For interstate purchases just settle on a standard where the state of the seller or the state of the buyer collects the fee. Heck, set it up like a deposit system. You pay $10 when you buy the computer and get $5 back when you turn the computer in.
Smaller goverments run programs better - more efficiency, less impact due to corruption (on a smaller scale corruption is easier to detect), and more people are able to keep watch and keep the program in check. The insight for a program might start on the federal level, but it's insane having 1/2 the programs that we have running at the federal level.
Wouldn't it be more efficiant to come up with a nationwide recycling program for as many products as possible? Or at least extend this to all electronics such as TVs, Radios, etc.
It's $6 recycling fee to buy a computer starting this year in California. I wonder if the US fee will be added to this, or California will just follow US fee.
Doesn't everyone know some strange fellow that collects old computers and parts? If you did then you could get money for your old computer instead of paying extra for it. That's how recycling used to work, ie: you collected cans, recycled them, and counted your dimes. But now we have to pay to recycle things...what is this country coming to?
I wouldn't have a problem with each computer including a $10 "deposit" built into it that you received upon dropping it off at a recycling center, but a fee? Get real.
While you're at it, put deposit on recycleable containers (juice, beer, milk) for god's sake.. it pains me to go to a party in washington (and other states), and see case after case of empty beer cans thrown in the garbage. I understand that unintelligent people can't figure out the difference between deposit and another tax, but thems the breaks. http://www.container-recycling.org/glassfact/decli ne.htm
Archimede's principle dictates that an object will displace its weight in water
I hate to be nitpicky, but not exactly. If an object cannot displace its own weight in water, then it will sink to the bottom. But for floating objects, your statement is correct.
The rest of your post is well reasoned and yes, there are people doing this (mostly in the second and third world). However, computer parts often contain very toxic substances. Unfortunately, heating these parts to the temperatures needed to melt metal results in the release of gases, some of which are very toxic. So, doing what you are describing can be hazardous to your health. People in Mexico and China and similar places that are recycling PC parts under improper conditions to get precious (or sometimes just valuable) metals are in fact getting ill from doing this.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Gas tax, property tax, federal income tax, state income tax, social security tax, sales tax, tarrifs on goods we purchase, capital gains tax, federal telephone fees, vehicle registration (buy a nice car and now I can't even afford the plates on it) and the thousand other taxes that I cannot afford to pay.
I don't pay enough taxes. 50% of my income just isn't enough. Add it up folks. The government has $150 hammers to buy. Don't try and pawn the blame off on one political party, either. They're both guilty.
Most people have no clue what they're paying in taxes. The pump thier gas and wonder why it's so expensive but don't even see the 50 cent a gallon tax. They pay their mortgage and don't see the thousands of dollars they're paying in property tax because it's rolled into the payment. Their taxes are deducted right out of thier paycheck. I'm self employed, wait until you have to write out all these checks, it works. Are they going to tax motherboards when I build computers? This will be really good for the struggling IT economy.
Joking aside, this sounds simple, but enforcing this would be more trouble than most people anticipate.
* $10 a machine is arbitrary. For PC it is so little money that it won't affect behavior. For smaller stuff (like a cellphone or GameBoy) it is a larger portion of the price, and will encourage people to attempt to dodge the fee. (like buying overseas) This is countrproductive, since it's the PC's are much larger and heavier, and are the obviously the targets of this.
* Not just WHAT is a computer, but WHEN is it a computer? If I buy a barebones system (motherboard and case), is that going to incur the $10? What about when I add a harddrive and memory? CD player? Speakers? What about a monitor? If I build one at home, do I have to fill out a form and tell the gov't I've created one, and mail them $10? What about small-time mom-and-pop computer companies? New paperwork for them too?
* $10 a person isn't much, but it adds up for schools buying in bulk, particularly if every PC, monitor, printer and router incurs a seperate $10 fee. Think of the children!
* If I take two broken computers and RECYCLE some of the parts by building one decent computer, how do I get my $10 back? What if I sell this refurbished system? Do I need to add YET ANOTHER $10 onto the price? What forms will I need to fill out to make sure I don't become a criminal when I do this?
* As with all taxes: collecting it, keeping track of who has paid, tracking down tax evaders, and prosecuting them costs a lot of money. Chump change taxes like this probably cost more than they bring in if you bother to enforce them. What is wrong with all of the hundreds of little nickle-and-dime piranna taxes we already have? Can't you just raise one of them and save us the paperwork?
* "... tack on a $10 administrative fee to the sale price of computers and monitors to fund recycling efforts" Are you kidding me? Fund recycling efforts? This money will go into the big cannibal pot of cash (like all taxes do), and be spent the same way all the rest of the money is spent, so please don't pretend I'm helping to save the world by giving you $10.
* Why are we worrying about computers in landfills? Have you SEEN how big and heavy cars are?
* Dear lawmakers: Not all problems can be solved via the levying of taxes. I know that when you're a hammer, every problem looks like a nail, but don't you have anything better to do?
--This sig is in beta. Please let us know abut any errors you find.
Why are do-gooders always trying to get their hands in our pockets?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
That's not necessarily the way I read the bill. It says that typewriters and handheld calculators are exempted, but the terminology is so archaic there, that just about anything sold today could be deemed to fall outside that exemption! If we got a money-hungry administrator in office, we could be paying $10 on a $10 electronic addressbook, etc. I doubt very much if it would get that bad, but certainly $10 on a CRT monitor is pretty steep, since the the smaller ones are starting at $49 or so (a 20% tax!)
A lot of times, places will just throw out very usable systems. I know the article said that reselling these systems has raised red flags (bullshit, IMHO), but what about the family that can't afford a computer to help their kid with research projects for school?
Hardware is just a small part of the problem causing the "digital divide", and nobody seems to really care. Having come from a low-income home, I DO care.
I tried a while back to get people together to start a non-profit organization to help out the underprivileged, but when it came down to the wire and the "how much will I get paid" questions, everyone seemed to be uninterested in it.
Just like these "tree-huggers" trying to avoid the resale of perfectly usable hardware, everyone is greedy and doesn't want to see the poverty-stricken children grow up with at least SOME exposure to computing unless it means something for them.
All I can say is that I hope the people that are pushing this bill with no elbow room on either side of it don't sleep tonight. I'm sick and tired of seeing this crap.
If you want to take my idea and run with it, have some background on it: http://digivisions.skudd.com/
probably it ends up like this
(And for a larger perspective I came up with while in a obviously fevered state, check out my horrible hyperlink haiku)
Someone had to do it.
There's a simpler term for this. It's called a "Tax". It will never be used to pay for recycling. Instead it will be used to pay for pork projects and other forms of government waste. The moment anybody points this out they will be accused of attempting to "starve children and keep old people from getting their medicine". What a crock.
The Silcon Valley Toxics Coalition http://www.svtc.org/has some very interesting links to articles related to computer and enviroment. I am not worried about the space issue of throwing away the computers, I am worried about the issue of putting all the lead (and other materials) into our eviroment. The World needs to realize just how costly computers are going to be to our eviroment in both creation and disposal. The $10 per computer will not be enough to even think about covering the true cost of getting any computer disposed of safely. I can't say live without computers, but people need to think about buying less of them, and using them longer. Hopefully Linux will have a role in this.
mnewberg.com
Why don't they call this what it is.....it's a TAX. They aren't going to recycle your computers. They just want more of OUR money. Writer your congressman. REJECT this bill.
Gorkman
make much more sense.
you already pay an 'administrative fee' in most states when you purchase a computer. It's called a TAX you morons.
As we all know, additional TAX has a way of getting spent in ways far removed from the original goal. Recycling studies and reports, increasing the numbers of women and minorities in recycling, TV advertisements on the 'goodness' of recycling, etc.
It also does nothing to promote recycling on the part of the person who has paid the fee. Whereas a deposit makes it attractive for people who might enjoy driving around and picking from trash to handle the recycling for those who couldn't be bothered.
And here is the best thing about deposits. They can be applied immediately to older stuff that was no part of the 'program'. This works because the deposit is always being redeemed in the future. Kind of like social security.
There's a simpler term for this. It's called a "Tax". It will never be used to pay for recycling. Instead it will be used to pay for pork projects and other forms of government waste. The moment anybody points this out they will be accused of attempting to "starve children and keep old people from getting their medicine".
Exactly. I highly doubt any of this is going to increase recycling, but it is going to inflict $20-40 cost on every new computer system sold. It will be just like the environmental tax on tires in my state. Add $3 when they are sold, and add another $1 per item when you dispose of it. But the garage still has to pay someone to haul it away as the fee goes to the state and is spent on other things.
It's simply resulted in massive amounts of tires being thrown away in alleys rather than disposed of properly.
I highly doubt ant front end fee at the federal level is going to generate even a single recycling center on the ground. It may generate a ton of new rules for your garbage man, that he might have to sort it and pay someone else to haul it away, but this will just be tacked on to your garbage bill, the $10-40 you paid up front wont go to that at all. That is the way these things work out in the real world.
This is a ripoff.
Freedom is merely privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all.
Oh yeah. I forgot about that part in the Constitution that says the government should be involved in recycling PRINTING PRESSES. So, you know, it stands to reason that this should be extended to COMPUTERS. Congress ought to be disbanded for about 10 or 20 years. We have all the laws we could possibly use right now, thank you very much.
The gap is already being filled in the private sector, as is always the case. In my small town, there's a United Way agency that takes outdated computers from local businesses (with two Fortune 250 companies, they get some "decent" stuff), refurbishes them, and gives them away to grade-school children. The school system picks up the tab, and they've even partnered with a local ISP for internet access. I've personally given a lot of stuff to the program, and, of course, it's all tax deductable. Everybody wins in this scenario, and there's no need for the government to be involved.
Acts 17:28, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being."
It's bad enough lawmakers are sticking fees and surcharges in everything from cell phone bills to cigarettes. Now they want to add $10 to the cost of computers under the guise of environmentalism? WE DO NOT HAVE A LANDFILL PROBLEM! We do NOT need to recycle computers unless that means giving them to the poor.
In fact many states do 'tax' bottles in the form of a return deposit; it's worked incredibly well at getting them recycled.
It's about the least intrusive and lowest overhead way to get the job done, as anyone but the most dogmatic libertarian would recognize.
signed,
former dogmatic libertarian
I'm all for people disposing of their computers in a responsible manner, but do we really need the government involved? It's going to wind up costing people more money and even then, most people won't bother with their program anyway-their old computers will still sit, unused and gathering dust in basements, garages and bedroom closets until someone gets tired of them and puts them out with the garbage.
Or are we going to make it a federal offence to do that?
Do we NEED this, or is it just a fine sounding idea designed to make us feel better but which won't wind up helping much (if at all)?
The real question is: how much government intereference in our daily lives is too much?
Congress doesn't have unlimited authority, despite what it believes.