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Windows Longhorn Beta for June Release

Posted by Zonk on from the newer-shinier-and-with-horns dept.

An Anonymous Reader writes "According to CNET, the Windows Longhorn Beta 1 is supposedly set for release this June. The Register has commentary on the delays the new OS has faced." From the article: "Longhorn was originally supposed to ship in 2004. In May, this year release was pushed back to 2005. This week Longhorn's availability has been delayed even further, with Microsoft execs declining to say when exactly the operating system might ship, eWeek reports."

42 of 460 comments (clear)

  1. Credibility by fembots · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So what makes this June Release by one Microsoft executive more believable than other announcements?

    --
    Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
    1. Re:Credibility by Swamii · · Score: 4, Informative

      So what makes this June Release by one Microsoft executive more believable than other announcements?

      The 4 month beta deadline, maybe? All previous announcements have been almost a year ahead of time.

      --
      Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit
    2. Re:Credibility by Gr8Apes · · Score: 5, Funny
      I believe they'll probably release something - the time line's too short to miss it by 4 years as they've done previously. Besides, they don't want the actual release of Tiger to have the limelight by itself, now, do they?

      Heck, Cairo was announced, what? 14 years ago? Longhorn was the new Cairo, now delayed to Blackcomb, as "Cairo" wasn't getting any more press. After all, "we're writing about Cairo again?

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    3. Re:Credibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Considering the rate Longhorn is shedding features, I don't see why it can't ship on time.

      Simply put, the shipping date approaches zero as the number of new features approaches zero.

    4. Re:Credibility by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Insightful
      > Heck, Cairo was announced, what? 14 years ago? Longhorn was the new Cairo, now delayed to Blackcomb, as "Cairo" wasn't getting any more press. After all, "we're writing about Cairo again?

      Database-driven filesystems are sorta like nuclear fusion.

      Marketing time to release is a constant in the range of 10-15 units of time. Actual time to release is the same -- but you use the next higher unit.

      That is, WinFS has been 6-12 months away for about 15 years, and fusion power has been about 5-10 years away for at least the past 5 decades.

    5. Re:Credibility by Monkelectric · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Cairo never existed... it was a scare tactic to get people to skip upgrading to novels new netware product. I believe they have pretty much admitted this?

      --

      Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

    6. Re:Credibility by cortana · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hey, that also works for Debian! Sarge has been ~1 month away for... 12 months. :(

  2. The future of Windows by __aaitqo8496 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia."
    "Longhorn will be released next year. It has always been planned to be released next year."

    Much like the war in Orwell's 1984, Windows will never be complete. It's been a long time since the last major overhaul. Maybe they need to just make Windows a perpetual upgrade. Each release will have a major component update.

    Windows XP: Unified Home/Pro editions
    Longhorn: Avalon & Indigo
    Blackcomb: WinFS

    Now that Windows is `for the most part` on a standardized framework (.NET), they should be able to just release updates based on this framework, whether it be for current major release or retroactively. If you need some component installed, just make sure it's prereq's are there. Oh wait - this sounds a lot like Linux.

    Yes? No? Who the hell cares?

    1. Re:The future of Windows by Swamii · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you need some component installed, just make sure it's prereq's are there. Oh wait - this sounds a lot like Linux.

      We tried that. It was called DLL Hell.

      --
      Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit
    2. Re:The future of Windows by irokitt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Your thought was the same as mine. Windows machines get a lot of diverse, funky software thrown on them.

      I'll withhold judgement on Longhorn until I get to play with it. Maybe the changes will be worth the money to upgrade, maybe not. Maybe the graphics will look cheesy (a la XP) and maybe not. Either way, my Slackware box will fill the balance. I think an open mind is a good thing here.

      That said, I can foresee (via the Slashdot palantir) a lot of people looking at their screens and wonering if all years of hype and buildup really just produced this. Think Doom 3 here: Yeah, it was entertaining, but it wasn't worth all the years of salivating and my $50.

      --
      If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
    3. Re:The future of Windows by Leo+McGarry · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oh, for Pete's ...dude, seriously. Can't we get through one damn story without somebody making an Orwell analogy? Especially one as lame-ass as this one?

      We could solve all the world's energy problems if we could just hook Orwell's corpse up to a generator to capture all the rotational energy that's currently being wasted on postmortem outrage.

    4. Re:The future of Windows by Leo+McGarry · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's the frequency with which it's being quoted, and the inappropriateness of the quotes. Think. What did the aforementioned comment have to do with Orwell or with 1984? Nothing at all. It was just a drive-by allusion.

      No, 1984 is not "one of the most important books ever written," unless you expand your list to include tens of thousands of books. It's just that it's a book that's widely assigned to high-school students. It's pop-culture wisdom, a mile wide and an inch deep. It's the beginning of insight, not the end. C.f. Rand, Ayn, for another example of the same phenomenon.

      Too many people point to 1984 as an illustration of the insidiousness of totalitarianism, when what they completely miss is the fact that 1984 is a book about the insidious of totalitarianism. It takes the insidiousness of totalitarianism as a given. The book doesn't contain a discussion about whether the slope is slippery or not; it just assumes that the slope is slippery and tells a story based on that premise.

      To put a point on it, 1984 begs the whole question. Which is fine for a novel. Problem comes when people think of it as more than a novel.

      Somebody who reads 1984 and thinks that he then has something insightful to say about language or society is like somebody who reads Beat to Quarters and thinks that he then can sail a tall ship around Cape Horn.

    5. Re:The future of Windows by ajs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You seem to be making several orthoganal points. Some of them I even agree with, but to tie them together I think you'll need a bit more glue.

      First off the correct (IMHO) bits:

      Somebody who reads 1984 and thinks that he then has something insightful to say about language or society is like somebody who reads Beat to Quarters and thinks that he then can sail a tall ship around Cape Horn.

      Well, of course. I'm not sure that you're making a non-obvious point here, but ok. Of course, someone might read 1984 and then have something insightful to say about language or society... but that's no more or less likely than reading it and having something insightful to say about 20th century authors.

      No, 1984 is not "one of the most important books ever written," unless you expand your list to include tens of thousands of books

      Obviously you are just as correct as the grandparent who claimed the opposite. This is purely a matter of opinion, unless you're going to assign a quantitative definition to "most important books".

      Too many people point to 1984 as an illustration of the insidiousness of totalitarianism

      Here you lose me. It's not that this might not be a valid statement, but you place it in the center of a response to a post which makes no such claim. Thus, this can only be catagorized as a strawman.

      However, to take up the challenge, I'll argue that 1984 is not an illustration of the insidiousness of totalitarianism, but rather a illustration of the abstract nature of totalitarianism and the ability for the average member of such a society to lie to themselves about the choices they are making.

      Of course, we see this sort of book all the time, just not always about politics. Books about women who persist in abusive relationships, criminals who look in the mirror and see a hero, and any number of other common themes are all expressions of this. 1984 simply happens to be one example of this sub-genre where the average reader tends to "get it".

      Does 1984 beg the question of the insidiousness of totalitarianism? I don't think so. It shows us what the author thinks people are capable of, lets the readers own sense of the human condition demonstrate its truth. Most of us on reading 1984 come away a bit frightened. Not all of us realize why, but years after reading it, I realized that it was because nothing in the book was terribly difficult to imagine. People DO behave this way, and it's important for us to come to terms with that.

      Now, you can say that 1984 isn't important, but here's why I think it was: it opened up a dialog that we had with each other. Many other books have been written since -- some scholarly, some novels like 1984 -- but all further exploring this theme. Certainly philosophers had beat the idea of man's inhumanity to man around for a long time, but Orwell brought a language in which to frame the discussion to the common man, and in this I think we can rightly say that he was an important and influential author.

      By way of exmample, Asimov and Feynman didn't write the General and Specifc theories of relativity, but each of them produced clear, understandable and engaging information for people outside of the field that gave us the tools to intelligently disucss these complicated matters. This, in many ways, is just as important a step as introducing the concept to the scientific community.

      So, I'll put 1984 somewhere on that list of yours, but I suspect that I'm placing it quite a lot higher than you are.

  3. June.... by 1010011010 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... to beat "Tiger" to the punch.

    --
    Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
  4. hmm by FinestLittleSpace · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I like the 'different ways of distributing throughout large corps' thing... in the way that it's basically code for "we're going to try another convoluted way of stopping corporate editions from being pirated. COUGH"

  5. Hello? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    What's Longhorn? Bill Gates name for his...?

    1. Re:Hello? by savagedome · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wrong. That's micro soft.

      --


      Free XBox, PS2
    2. Re:Hello? by Sophrosyne · · Score: 4, Informative

      ...favorite butt-plug.
      In actuality it is the name of a bar in British Columbia.
      XP, aka Whistler, is the name of a mountain, as is Blackcomb... the bar longhorn is in the middle of the two.
      Product Cycle:
      XP (Whistler)
      Longhorn
      Blackcomb

  6. Timed to steal Tiger's thunder? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Methinks Microsoft is out to keep the next version of OS X, which is believed to be shipping at around the same time, from getting too much press.

  7. ...please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    If someone makes a Duke Nukem joke, I'm going to shoot myself.

    1. Re:...please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
      If someone makes a Duke Nukem joke, I'm going to shoot myself.
      I hear Longhorn will be required for Duke Nukem Forever.

      Oh, you said that to DISCOURAGE DNF jokes? My bad.
  8. Rumor has it... by Tuxedo+Jack · · Score: 4, Funny

    That Longhorn will ship with the full retail version of Duke Nukem Forever.

    --

    Striking fear in the authors of godawful fanfiction, I am here, appearing in darkness, Tuxedo Jack!
  9. XP by mboverload · · Score: 4, Insightful

    XP seems fine to me. All my utilities, programs, and games are in working order and I have never had a problem with security. Why exactly should I udgrade? The only reason I stay on Windows is for the games, and unless Micosoft has some magic optimizations it pulls out of its ass, I dont see a new operation system on here anytime soon.

    1. Re:XP by ADRA · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I say the same thing, but for Windows 2000. I have yet to find a show stopper at home to upgrade to XP. I don't see myself leaving 2000 on my desktop unless its to Linux (Which is already on file server/laptop).

      --
      Bye!
  10. Re:Shorthorn? by nuclear305 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I do agree. I'm tired of seeing less-than-spectacular releases in the Windows line. WinME? That was pointless.

    How about Longhorn being the "browserless OS?" If they hold true to that it means we'll probably be even more vulnerable to IE exploits--like hijacking our desktop background instead of just our browser homepage.

    I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't redesign their product to focus on 3 things: the kernel, the GUI, and the rest of the apps they ship with Windows.

    The one thing I love about Linux is the fact that the kernel is almost always stable. It rarely crashes. (with the exception of the use of alpha-release drivers or bad system memory) Yes, X may sprout some problems eventually but it doesn't take the whole system down.

    The other thing they need to do is stop integrating software into the OS. I can't stress this enough. I don't want to have to worry about my entire OS being vulnerable because IE has been integrated into every possible aspect of my GUI. Keep it simple, keep it segmented in modules.

    If they could ship an OS that had a rock-solid kernel, with a nice GUI shipped with it, and a few apps (IE, OE, etc) shipped as extras on the cd/dvd then I think they would finally have a worthy product on their hands.

  11. It's pronounced "Longhaul" by QuantumG · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When the world wakes up and sees that Microsoft is asking them to upgrade yet-again they will either 1) jump at the chance or 2) ask what was wrong with XP. I think we need to be there to tell them.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:It's pronounced "Longhaul" by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Informative

      When XP came out, I dont recall any announcement from Microsoft about having to upgrade?! Infact, I recall that the vast majority of 'upgrading' to XP just happened during the normal course of buying a new system as and when required - Win2k or 98 didnt suddenly stop working (did 98 ever start working?). Longhorn will be the same, natural upgrade with new hardware for normal users, those that follow the 'cutting edge' will be buying OS upgrades, and everyone will get on with life.

  12. I wonder... by michaeldot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Does Microsoft actually care about Mac OS X at all, whether as a competitive threat or even a comparative yardstick?

    At a recent university talk, Gates claimed that the only OSes that would be around in 10 years would be Windows and Linux. Now that could simply be a snub to Jobs, or it could indicate that he doesn't even consider Mac to be on the radar anymore. With less than 2% marketshare, Mac OS X is pretty much inconsequential in both the predominantly Windows consumer market, or Windows/Linux enterprise market.

    The ironic thing is, that if Mac OS X *were* to be around in 10 years, Microsoft would likely to be making far more money off it than if it disappeared. Why? The high gross margins (80+%) from Office mean that Microsoft often makes more money from a Mac bought with Office than Apple does (the gross margin on a Mac is 20+%).

    With only Linux as an alternative OS, Microsoft would likely make nothing, unless Microsoft plans to start selling software for Linux...

    Personally I think Microsoft does actually pay attention to Apple and uses them as a sort of free R&D lab. However, publicly, Gates seems to deny they're relevant now, and not at all in the future.

    Interesting...

    1. Re:I wonder... by Leo+McGarry · · Score: 4, Interesting

      With less than 2% marketshare, Mac OS X is pretty much inconsequential

      Check your figures again, please. There's no definition of "market share," either percent-of-sales-per-unit-time or percent-of-total-installed-base, for which that statement could be true. IDC consistently puts Apple around 4%, with an installed base set to exceed 40 million units during the first half of this year. (There are rumors that IDC's next projection is going to uptick sharply on the strength of the Mac mini.)

      When you're talking about a market valued in the tens of billions, the difference between "less than 2%" and the actual figure of four percent is huge.

  13. the register story is old by uujjj · · Score: 3, Funny

    Did anyone notice that the Register story is dated September 2003? Explains how it is talking about "May this year"

  14. Yippee!!!!!! by zmollusc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am as poor as a church mouse whose wife has run off with another mouse, taking all the cheese with her. I am looking forward to Longhorn because then lots of people will upgrade their kit and i get to inherit some newer stuff.
    My most recent hand-me-downs were from guys updating graphics cards for doom3 and HL2.

    --
    They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
  15. Tiger's punch was last year... by timealterer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A June beta release from Microsoft may or may not beat Apple's June final release, but Tiger's punch was the beta DVDs that went to all Worldwide Developers' Conference attendees LAST summer.

    --
    - Allen Pike
    Altering time, one time at a time.
  16. Uh? by modifried · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Did anyone look at the date of the article? Even in the /. snippet it shows that 2005 is not written in present tense.

    Microsoft delays Longhorn. Again
    By John Leyden
    Published Tuesday 2nd September 2003 10:55 GMT

  17. Hello.jpg? Try Giver. by Seoulstriker · · Score: 4, Funny

    Not so micro. Or soft. He might be the new "giver".

    * shudder *

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  18. Misleading Summary by Morgahastu · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article linked to, and quoted, was published in September of 2003. There is no new delay to speak of.

  19. Can't wait. :-) by AlgUSF · · Score: 4, Funny

    I bet this will be the most open and secure operating system ever.

    --


    I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
  20. Re:The next two years, will be the last chance to by maztuhblastah · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Once Longhorn comes out, Microsoft will again be so far ahead, it won't be easy, or even possible, for enthusiasts to catch up.

    Hi Mr. Troll...have some food:


    1. The entire OS will be accessible through a set of managed APIs. This makes coding 10 times easier and faster, and raises productivity to unprecedented levels. This also makes buffer overflows and some other security issues a thing of the past.

    Good idea...let's call them shared libraries. They can handle all the functions that a modern program will need. We'll put them in a central location, like a "lib" folder, and then release their header files in a "devel" (short for developer) package. This means that any program writer will be able to see exactly what functions he needs to use. We'll also put all our trust in the security of one developer, and forget security as our responsibility.

    2. New, resolution independent, vector based, GPU-enabled UI engine.... What's KDE/Gnome users gonna do? That's right, try to discern tiny non-scalable icons on these displays.

    That's right...those damn communists will have to develop SVG Icons to compete.

    3. Completely new UI, including some significant paradigm changes.

    Because we all know that a new UI is far more important than stability, performance, security, ease of use, scalability, compatibility, ease of development, and speed of patch releases...right? Then again, maybe changing to a 3d environment will make it easier for new users, after all, computers haven't been using 2d interfaces for the last 20-some years, right?

    Your webapps will actually run sandboxed .NET code on your machine.

    Just like, oh, I don't know...Java? Wait... Kind of like applets, but the entire webapp will be built out of them.... oh...I get it, just like a whole Java application. Got it. Silly me, I thought Java was only for applets...
    Just think about the possibilities there.Wait! I've heard this before... the possibility is ActiveX...seamless integration of pr0n toolbars^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H client and server, huh?

    web service protocol that's supported by the majority of computers in the world (when most people upgrade).
    Standard...oh yeah, like TCP/IP, SSL, SSH, Telnet, UDP, and all those other standards...(too many to list)

    The most important thing is, all of this will be available to Windows users out of the box, without any tweaking/recompiling/downloading dependencies
    Yeah...clicking the icon for Synaptic was getting to be a pain in the ass. I also got pretty tired of having several gigs worth of...well, all the programs I need...included on the installation disks.
    Developers will be able to rely on this stuff when building next-gen apps and be reasonably sure that if a user runs Longhorn, the app will run there.
    Yeah, let's see how many DLL's we can cram into the system32 folder, eh? Until DLL's are gone (ahem...notafuckingchanceinhell...ahem), there will still be DLL hell.


    It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks.
    Are you out of your fucking mind? MS copied Fisher-Price, not vice versa...
    It's time to start copying Longhorn.
    You know, you're right...let's copy a product that has to have a final specifications sheet, or even a concrete release date. Even better, let's copy our own innovations.

    Now that the troll's full, I may as well poke it a bit:

    That was by far one of the most uneducated, poorly cocnceived fanboy responses that I have ever read. Even people like Dvorak and Thurrot take more time to look at the status quo before proclaiming innovation.

    Cheers,

    -maztuh

    --
    The real litigious bastards...
  21. Preview of Longhorn by amichalo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A Preview of Longhorn is available here.

    A rather thorough documentation of the future featureset is available
    here.

    --
    I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
  22. Re:The next two years, will be the last chance to by I_redwolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1. The entire OS will be accessible through a set of managed APIs. This makes coding 10 times easier and faster, and raises productivity to unprecedented levels. This also makes buffer overflows and some other security issues a thing of the past.

    "Managed APIs". I can see where this is going already.

    2. New, resolution independent, vector based, GPU-enabled UI engine. Two years from Longhorn release people will be buying 200+ DPI displays because things look a lot better on them. What's KDE/Gnome users gonna do? That's right, try to discern tiny non-scalable icons on these displays.

    Gnome/KDE already support SVG. So gnome/kde have scalable fonts/icons.. right now, today. Not only that but work is already being done in this respect http://cairographics.org/introduction.

    3. Completely new UI, including some significant paradigm changes.

    PARA DIG EM! Yeah.. when I wanna be wowed by UI i'll use Enlightenement or OSX. Suprisingly nothing from Microsoft has ever impressed me in that department. I mean, the screenshots I've seen of gnome/kde/enlightenment/osx/xfce. Microsoft needs to hire new UI designers.. I mean, seriously.

    4. Seamless integration of client and server side (that's what XAML is all about, IMHO). Your webapps will actually run sandboxed .NET code on your machine. Kind of like applets, but the entire webapp will be built out of them. Just think about the possibilities there.

    Mozilla and XML. Thats what Mozilla is all about. Your webapps will actually run regular ole XML on your machine. Kind of like google mail, but the entire webapp will be built out of them. I'm living in the present by the way.. Just incase you were wondering.

    5. Reliable Web Services - Indigo, web services that don't suck. More importantly, web service protocol that's supported by the majority of computers in the world (when most people upgrade). And you can bet your ass they will upgrade, just like a couple of years after W95 was released almost everyone ran W95.

    Reliable Web Services? Web service protocol? So whats that called? HTMP? is that going to be ontop of HTTP? Making it more reliable and supported worldwide (after everyone switches from HTTP). Bet my ass i'll upgrade for a protocol, just like when I upgraded for ftp!

    It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks. It's time to start copying Longhorn. Gnome devs have already realised that.

    What you say?! Stop copying XP and start copying Longhorn?! Why my lad, you can't copy what doesn't exist.

    Seriously though, I hate Microsoft and if they had anything genuinely original coming out in Longhorn i'd probably be interested. Especially if it's good technology. To date, i'm hearing about stuff people have either already implemented or wrote about. Things that have been discussed by numerous people over the years. The innovation isn't happening at Microsoft, it's happening elsewhere. It's not even an attractive company to work for nowadays and i'd be hard pressed to say they've ever invented anything original.

    I mean, if I wanted to do original shit i'd have to go to work for anyone other than Microsoft.

  23. Re:The next two years, will be the last chance to by naden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. The entire OS will be accessible through a set of managed APIs. This makes coding 10 times easier and faster, and raises productivity to unprecedented levels. This also makes buffer overflows and some other security issues a thing of the past.

    I call bullshit. 10 times easier to develop/faster - I think not. And managed APIs whilst they may reduce the incidents of buffer overflows will not automagically solve your security problems. The fact is .Net is great, but not that great.

    2. New, resolution independent, vector based, GPU-enabled UI engine. Two years from Longhorn release people will be buying 200+ DPI displays because things look a lot better on them. What's KDE/Gnome users gonna do? That's right, try to discern tiny non-scalable icons on these displays.

    And who are going to be buying these new 200+ DPI machines ? I surely doubt the ordinary user is going to find a need to view their word documents in super high quality. So do explain what is going to be the driver of these displays ?

    3. Completely new UI, including some significant paradigm changes.

    Completely new ? And what lose the ability of their installed base to jump right in and use the system. What about the significant investments in training done by companies ? The fact is Longhorn will be 95% identical to Windows XP simply because it has to be. If it isn't and businesses have to invest serious money in retraining staff, then why not retrain them in how to use Linux/OpenOffice ?

    4. Seamless integration of client and server side (that's what XAML is all about, IMHO). Your webapps will actually run sandboxed .NET code on your machine. Kind of like applets, but the entire webapp will be built out of them. Just think about the possibilities there.

    Whilst your thinking about the possibilities, some of us are actually implementing it. Java/Flash are already heavily used and Google is only just showing that JS/DHTML can be used to do amazing stuff. And they all work cross-platform.

    The fact is developers can't target XAML so long as they have they have a significant number of end users that are running Windows 95/98/Linux/Mac/Firefox etc etc.

    5. Reliable Web Services - Indigo, web services that don't suck. More importantly, web service protocol that's supported by the majority of computers in the world (when most people upgrade). And you can bet your ass they will upgrade, just like a couple of years after W95 was released almost everyone ran W95.

    Web Services like CORBA is a developer's technology. Most end users won't know what web services is and why it is useful. You've been drinking the Microsoft kool-aid if you think end users are going to upgrade because of it. And Web Services works just as well on other platforms as well you know. Some even require little to no programming.

    The most important thing is, all of this will be available to Windows users out of the box, without any tweaking/recompiling/downloading dependencies. That's where the real strength of this all is. Developers will be able to rely on this stuff when building next-gen apps and be reasonably sure that if a user runs Longhorn, the app will run there.

    Bzzt. Except that when Longhorn comes out your going to have a even more fragmented Windows market (95/98/XP/Longhorn). Which means that as a developer you want to use the technology that will target the most number of platforms i.e. Win32. This is a huge problem for Microsoft and is why more Longhorn technologes are being backported to XP.

    It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks. It's time to start copying Longhorn. Gnome devs have already realised that.

    WRONG. It is time for Linux to start making itself more and more interoperable with Windows XP. To the point where businesses will sidegrad

    --
    Funtage Factor: Purple
  24. OS X makes Windows look bad by Nice2Cats · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Does Microsoft actually care about Mac OS X at all, whether as a competitive threat or even a comparative yardstick?

    I would certainly think so, because OS X shows people what can be done with computers -- it shows them that viruses, trojans, and other malware aren't acts of God, but a preventable result of bad technology; that computers don't have to crash; that drag'n drop can do so much more; that Plug and Play can be more than an empty marketing slogan; and finally that computers can actually look cool. In short, Apple makes Windows machines look bad by comparison, and with the iPod and Mac mini actually penetrating the mainstream, this can't be good for Microsoft.

    Futhermore, I think your comment

    With less than 2% marketshare, Mac OS X is pretty much inconsequential in both the predominantly Windows consumer market, or Windows/Linux enterprise market.

    shows a widespread but flawed view of the computer world: Market share is all that matters. In fact, look at Porsche: Pissy market share, but great cars and -- more important -- great financial performance of the company. Apple's stock is doing just fine, thank you, while Microsoft's is starting to underperform to the point where they are now paying dividend. Comparing Microsoft to Apple makes just as little sense as comparing GM to Porsche and then saying that Porsche is hopeless because they don't have a large percentage of the mass-market.

    In fact, at least up to the Mac mini, that was exactly the point.

  25. Re:The next two years, will be the last chance to by ookaze · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Once Longhorn comes out, Microsoft will again be so far ahead, it won't be easy, or even possible, for enthusiasts to catch up. Right now they're essentially standing still. They've put all their efforts into LH, there's nothing going on with XP except for service packs/bugfixes. Now is the perfect time to release a really polished Linux desktop that would be simple to setup and use.

    I hope MS will be far ahead of WinXP with LH, because the polished Linux desktops were released in 2001 (the time I switched, as WinXP had become unusable when compared to a Gnome or KDE desktop), and are gradually improving ever since.

    When Longhorn comes out, Microsoft, and folks who develop for Windows, will surge ahead REALLY fast.
    Here's why:
    1. The entire OS will be accessible through a set of managed APIs. This makes coding 10 times easier and faster, and raises productivity to unprecedented levels. This also makes buffer overflows and some other security issues a thing of the past.

    No clue wishful thinking. I'm not impressed. The Windows architecture is flawed already. No amount of code can fix it. Redesigning Windows (for multiuser and for the internet) would be far better.

    2. New, resolution independent, vector based, GPU-enabled UI engine. Two years from Longhorn release people will be buying 200+ DPI displays because things look a lot better on them. What's KDE/Gnome users gonna do? That's right, try to discern tiny non-scalable icons on these displays.

    Actually, I started using beautiful scalable (SVG) icons and fonts at worst in 2002 on my Gnome desktop ... You and LongHorn are pretty late I must say.
    So, on my 100 dpi 22" monitor (in 1600x1200), the desktop is pretty sharp and the icons and fonts are like they should be, even if I change resolution. I bet it will be the same with 200+ dpi monitors.

    3. Completely new UI, including some significant paradigm changes.

    Do you mean MS actually invented something ? That will not be a ripoff of Mac OS X, Linux or other desktops ? Now I'm impressed.
    I've seen nothing of the kind till now, but I suppose it is secret.

    4. Seamless integration of client and server side (that's what XAML is all about, IMHO). Your webapps will actually run sandboxed .NET code on your machine. Kind of like applets, but the entire webapp will be built out of them. Just think about the possibilities there.

    I'm a user, I have no need for your webapps. And client and server should not be integrated either, that is nonsense. The server should run the app, not me, so I do not need anything sandboxed. I think of the possibilities for a lot of virus yes.

    5. Reliable Web Services - Indigo, web services that don't suck. More importantly, web service protocol that's supported by the majority of computers in the world (when most people upgrade). And you can bet your ass they will upgrade, just like a couple of years after W95 was released almost everyone ran W95.

    I fail to understand how you can talk about "web service protocol". What is that, isn't it HTTP ? It is an open protocol, like they all should be on the internet. The internet is not MSN you know, that is a world for everyone, not just for Windows users.

    The most important thing is, all of this will be available to Windows users out of the box, without any tweaking/recompiling/downloading dependencies. That's where the real strength of this all is. Developers will be able to rely on this stuff when building next-gen apps and be reasonably sure that if a user runs Longhorn, the app will run there.

    Your description looks like what is already present in Windows now : ActiveX, Direct X, ...
    I see no improvement. Will it all be open ? That would be an improvement.

    It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks. It's time to start copying Longhorn. Gnome devs have already realised that.

    Who is copying Windows XP or