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Anatomy of the Linux Boot Process

Donna writes "This article discusses detailed similarities and differences involved in booting Linux on an x86-based platform (typically a PC-compatible SBC) and a custom embedded platform based around PowerPC, ARM, and others. It discusses suggested hardware and software designs and highlights the tradeoffs of each. It also describes important design pitfalls and best practices."

170 comments

  1. The good thing about Linux by X43B · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What I like about Linux is never having to reboot except when it is time for a kernal upgrade. :)

    1. Re:The good thing about Linux by Claire-plus-plus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What I like about Linux is never having to reboot except when it is time for a kernal upgrade. :)

      Or hardware installation :)

      --
      99 bottles of beer in 175 characte
    2. Re:The good thing about Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Someone in my networking class in High School hotplugged a NIC once. Neither the nics, or the mainboard supported it. It also had windows 98.

      It did't die. It actually detected it, installed the drivers, and the link went up. The old drivers simply threw up an "im not working" error in the device manager.

    3. Re:The good thing about Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are such a liar. Most if not all network setting changes require a reboot in windows 98. I'm not just talking about drivers, i'm talking ip addresses and network masks.

    4. Re:The good thing about Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or lowmem fragmentation/exhaustion. :)

      Or a process stuck in I/O wait. :)

      Or NFS gets confused. :)

      Humility and knowledge of one's own weaknesses please!

    5. Re:The good thing about Linux by Quasar1999 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Or hardware installation :)

      About that... I've unsuccessfully tried hotswapping an AGP video card once... I spent the rest of the day looking up motherboard, ram, and video card prices online... using another computer... I'll let you figure out why...

      --

      ---
      Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
    6. Re:The good thing about Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is not. If you use DHCP, then this works. If you don't, it doesn't.

    7. Re:The good thing about Linux by MikeCapone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is a good point, but it doesn't mean that the boot process can't be sped up quite a bit.

      It would especially be useful on laptops, or for people who like to save electricity by shutting down their computers when not in use.

    8. Re:The good thing about Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apart from when it reboots itself arbitrarily and for no reason

    9. Re:The good thing about Linux by Taladar · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...and then he had to reboot to change the description of his PC in the Network Neighbourhood...

    10. Re:The good thing about Linux by Aadain2001 · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Well, you should have checked BEFORE the experiment that your equipment actually supported it. The software may have no issues, but if the mobo and/or card didn't support it, there is nothing the OS can do to keep the magic smoke it :)

      --
      Space for rent, inquire within
    11. Re:The good thing about Linux by ArbitraryConstant · · Score: 1

      I had a dying NIC that did pretty much the same thing with XP...

      I don't use that NIC or Windows anymore, but credit where credit is due.

      --
      I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
    12. Re:The good thing about Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      unsuccessfully tried hotswapping an AGP video card once... I spent the rest of the day looking up motherboard, ram, and video card prices online

      Ah, it's not for softies, but hot-swapping a peripheral card has been done.

    13. Re:The good thing about Linux by vasqzr · · Score: 1

      I've done the same thing with modems, but never a NIC card. Interesting.

    14. Re:The good thing about Linux by bloo9298 · · Score: 1
      Or a process stuck in I/O wait. :)

      Real men just use a hex editor on /proc/kcore to remove the process. :-)

    15. Re:The good thing about Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What I like about Linux is never having to reboot except when it is time for a kernal upgrade. :)

      Or minor kernel configuration change, like enabling or disabling some feature.

    16. Re:The good thing about Linux by atsabig10fo · · Score: 1

      you da man!! a true pioneer!! :)

    17. Re:The good thing about Linux by KermitJunior · · Score: 1

      um, winipcfg.
      duh.

      --
      There is a Universal Life Value Check it
    18. Re:The good thing about Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just put my laptop to sleep. I haven't had it power down before I could plug it back in to juice it up again, and the odd thing is, the battery pack died long ago, too (it's an ancient 486DX100 that only maintains a charge when it's not running--I swear it's just persisting on the charge in the capacitors). :)

    19. Re:The good thing about Linux by m50d · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. Turn on PCI hotplugging and use a mobo which supports it.

      --
      I am trolling
    20. Re:The good thing about Linux by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Considering that Linux runs on some heavy hardware, I thought the OS side (linux) supported hotswapping quite well. The fact that consumer equipment doesn't (and why should it) is another story. I wonder when we'll see the hotswappable SATA disks though, I'd really like to have those in a slot-like loading mechanism (cheap bay, cheap cartridges) instead of external enclosures (expensive with power/ata->usb/fireware chips).

      Kjella

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    21. Re:The good thing about Linux by Crazy+Eight · · Score: 1

      No doubt. I see no reason to limit the argument to practicality though. How about streamlining the (post-lilo/grub/yaboot) boot process just because it's the right thing to do? The pre-bootloader BIOS crap is really the hang up here, but once vmlinuz is unpacking itself do we have an excuse for not making it elegant? I was looking at the scripts supplied with Debian's dhcp3-client earlier tonight and noticed that they include conditionals for 2.2.x kernels. This sort of blunt robustness is strewn throughout the (SysV) init system (for admirable motivations), but at what point does making everything work unfailably become makinging everything work like spaghetti?

    22. Re:The good thing about Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or when you have a process with status "D" (uninterruptable IO) you need to kill. No "kill -9 here, reboot is your friend. Or wait and pray. Greeting from your tapedrive, while we're at it.

    23. Re:The good thing about Linux by WinterpegCanuck · · Score: 3, Funny
      I've always been partial to pulling out running CPU's. . . The system just kind of stops. No errors. Just peace. Like a portrait in time.

      I think I need to write a poem.

      PS. be careful what web page you were viewing at the time, as it isn't so easy to close.

    24. Re:The good thing about Linux by God!+Awful+2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is a good point, but it doesn't mean that the boot process can't be sped up quite a bit. It would especially be useful on laptops, or for people who like to save electricity by shutting down their computers when not in use.

      It would probably be most useful for the Linux kernel developers themselves.

      -a

    25. Re:The good thing about Linux by Datamonstar · · Score: 1

      I have seen similar things done, but never intentionally. I did get a good gasp! of air when I saw my friend rip a ISA winmodem out of a slot and stick the new one in. Surprisingly enough, after I mad dashed to rip the plug out the wall it still worked. Ahhhh.. they don't make 'em like they used to..

      --
      The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
  2. What a Debian system looks like when booting by El+Cubano · · Score: 5, Interesting
    1. Re:What a Debian system looks like when booting by burns210 · · Score: 3, Informative
      Or, you could post to the article that inspired yours(and was cited in it), regarding the Fedora boot process. here.

      Basically, they found that rhgb (which is often turned off by Redhat Engineers) is wasting a lot of time and doesn't accomplish anything. Removing it would increase bootspeed.

    2. Re:What a Debian system looks like when booting by El+Cubano · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or, you could post to the article that inspired yours(and was cited in it), regarding the Fedora boot process.

      That was not my post. I just remember seeing it on debian-devel. Besides, the if you follow the links from the fedora-devel post you refer to, all you get is a couple of png images of the boot processes. The guy who did the Debian version explains how he did it and also provides links to the necessary tools.

    3. Re:What a Debian system looks like when booting by zigam · · Score: 2, Informative

      Besides, the if you follow the links from the fedora-devel post you refer to, all you get is a couple of png images of the boot processes.

      That's because the project just started then. Here's the project page now with documentation and more samples:
      www.bootchart.org

      --
      Ziga
  3. Proof reading? by FyRE666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They could have at least made sure the arrows on the diagrams were round the right way!

    1. Re:Proof reading? by BLAG-blast · · Score: 1
      They could have at least made sure the arrows on the diagrams were round the right way!

      Glad somebody else noticed that, atleast it was only in the x86 section. I figure the author was trying to research how many readers who click on the link look at the FA and are not part of some Cultural Denial Of Service attack.

      How many of you have clicked on a link just to hurt the server? How many have clicked refresh just to see how long the server stays up?

      Feel free to post anonymously if you're ashamed.

      --
      M0571y H@rml355.
    2. Re:Proof reading? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I assumed that I couldn't understand those diagrams because I didn't understand what I was looking at. If its just acase of the arrows actually being around the wrong way then that explains it, and I agree, they really should have proof "Read" those diagrams.

    3. Re:Proof reading? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The FA is hosted on an IBM webserver, it's probably one of the few places that can happily take a Slashdotting.

    4. Re:Proof reading? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and I can't for the life of me figure out that loop on the bottom, even ignoring the arrows.

    5. Re:Proof reading? by larwe · · Score: 4, Informative

      Hi, I'm the author of this article series, and I was steered here by my publication contact at IBM (I don't get much time to read /. - right now I'm working at a day job, this article series, my third book and some contract embedded systems engineering). Anyway, I swear to you (and can email you the original PNG!) that *I* got the arrows the right way around. Unfortunately, someone in IBM's graphics department was apparently DUI operating Adobe Illustrator. I don't always get a chance to proof the graphics before an article gets published; and that was the case for this one. I got a bite at the text, but didn't see the massaged graphics until the article hit the web. I've already poked my end of the chain to get that fixed. To people who find the article boring, I've got two comments: a) It's part of a series. I can't assume much about my readership, so I had to spend essentially the entire first three articles doing groundwork to explain what's happening in the system and why, and how to get a functional development environment working on the box. Article #4 starts giving some actual code, and article #5 will start giving some actual circuits. Unfortunately, IBM sets the release schedule, and that means you have to wait a month between episodes. They also set the article length limits, which means I can only put so much in each instalment. b) Not everything in those three articles is obvious to the lay person. Although I didn't have enough space to go into great detail, I tried to communicate some useful information I've learned in practical 32-bit systems implementation (for commercial purposes). Remember that the target audience is primarily people who are accustomed to building x86-based embedded Linux apps, and many of these people will not know or care about much of the infrastructure under their app.

  4. -1, Offtopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    What I like about Linux is never having to reboot except when it is time for a kernal upgrade. :)


    And when it crashes. Seriously tho, Linux requires too much rebooting compared to BSD. I'm talking years of uptime here.

    s/Linux/BSD/;


    1. Re:-1, Offtopic by MPHellwig · · Score: 1

      "' What I like about Linux is never having to reboot except when it is time for a kernal upgrade. :)'"

      "And when it crashes. Seriously tho, Linux requires too much rebooting compared to BSD. I'm talking years of uptime here.

      s/Linux/BSD/;"

      And netcraft confirms it ;-)

      http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html

  5. I have a computer science degree by Claire-plus-plus · · Score: 4, Funny

    But I still found that article as boring as hell!

    --
    99 bottles of beer in 175 characte
    1. Re:I have a computer science degree by j1bb3rj4bb3r · · Score: 3, Funny

      But I still found that article as boring as hell!

      If you had an EE degree, you might find it more interesting... but then likely everyone else would find *you* boring as hell.

      --
      *yawn*
  6. Arrows by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I really hate to nit-pick, but any editor should have caught that the arrows in the flow chart point the wrong way.

    Anyway, I've often wondered why the OS insists on redetecting hardware when BIOS does it for me already. I've heard that the LinuxBios actually does away with the hardware detect phase; leaving it solely to the kernel.

    If the most popular OSes out there are taking care of HW at the high level, why haven't BIOS makers taken advantage of this to reduce their workload?

    --
    I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
    1. Re:Arrows by X0563511 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Compatibility/fallback?

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    2. Re:Arrows by teknomage1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Tradition! Seriously though, BIOS code is very old and designed to provide for the least common denominator.

      --
      Stop intellectual property from infringing on me
    3. Re:Arrows by Apreche · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the most popular OSes out there are taking care of HW at the high level, why haven't BIOS makers taken advantage of this to reduce their workload?

      Because if you buy a motherboard and the BIOS on it makes it so that the computer will only work with Windows XP, server 2k3 and linux kernel 2.4+ people will be pissed. Some people might still want to run DOS, OS/2, Windows 95/98, kernel 2.2, or some other old busted operating system. It's there for that reason. With a linux bios your computer can pretty much only run Linux. Which is fine if that's all you want to run.

      Oh, and BIOS makers don't have more workload. They've pretty much mastered making that part of the BIOS. They just have to slightly modify their BIOSes for each motherboard that comes out and update them to deal with the newest chips.

      --
      The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
    4. Re:Arrows by 0racle · · Score: 3, Informative

      That the OS does it allows older systems to be much more useful. By ignoring whatever crap the BIOS says, my FreeBSD system can use a >8gb drive in a system with motherboard that does not support large drives. However, with a bios still there, the system can be used by a system that relies on it.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    5. Re:Arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On a PCI system, the OS doesn't really "detect" hardware -- at least not in the old Win95 sense of poking registers to figure out what's there.

      The OS just asks the BIOS for a list of PCI ID values, and loads the appropriate drivers for those IDs.

    6. Re:Arrows by tristanj · · Score: 1

      One of the reasons for the OS redetecting hardware is that relying on the BIOS is less portable, and sometimes BIOS has limitations which the OS doesn't.

    7. Re:Arrows by iabervon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Basically, the BIOS has to manage the hardware before the OS boots. You can't rely on the OS to find the boot hard drive to load the OS from, or to arrange RAM to run the BIOS, or to interact with the user to configure the BIOS settings to determine what to boot from. This means that the BIOS has to understand the video card somewhat, hard drives, keyboards, mice, USB for some of these, PCI for others, IDE, SCSI, and so forth.

      But it doesn't have to be efficient at any of it, because you're not going to do very much with the system as handled by the BIOS. It doesn't matter if you don't use DMA to load the bootloader, because it's small and you do it once per boot.

    8. Re:Arrows by prockcore · · Score: 1

      Anyway, I've often wondered why the OS insists on redetecting hardware when BIOS does it for me already.

      I'm actually glad that it does. We did the TiVo hack, and our bios didn't see the tivo harddrive at all. Luckily, linux saw it just fine and was able to mount it without a problem.

    9. Re:Arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean MS-DOS 1.0 circa 1981? :-D

    10. Re:Arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      No. Very few modern systems use the PCI BIOS to gather information on the bus. Accessing the PCI controller directly and probing for devices is not difficult amd reliably allows the OS to detect devices such as PCI bridges which the BIOS may not report properly or even may not recognise.

    11. Re:Arrows by shish · · Score: 1
      I've often wondered why the OS insists on redetecting hardware when BIOS does it for me already

      My BIOS sees that I have one 1GB disk; linux sees that I have a 1GB disk to boot off and a 120GB disk for data -- software is much more flexible than firmware, to the point where I wonder quite why we have the latter...

      --
      I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
    12. Re:Arrows by pclminion · · Score: 1
      Anyway, I've often wondered why the OS insists on redetecting hardware when BIOS does it for me already.

      Because many BIOSes are crappy, and mis-initialize the hardware. Haven't you ever seen boot messages like "Broken BIOS screwed up ATA PIO mode, fixing..." or something along those lines?

      The BIOS is there so that boot code can print stuff on the screen and find the hard drive to boot the OS. Nothing else. It attempts to initialize hardware but it is not to be trusted.

      If the most popular OSes out there are taking care of HW at the high level, why haven't BIOS makers taken advantage of this to reduce their workload?

      Because then you wouldn't be able to boot MS-DOS. Seriously. A PC is still expected to run every piece of software out there since the 8086. A machine which can't do that isn't really a "PC." I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but the reality is there are still a lot of people using MS-DOS (why fix what isn't broke?)

    13. Re:Arrows by tmasssey · · Score: 1
      A nitpick on your signature:

      (0x2B | -0x2B) == 0xFFFFFFFF

      Wouldn't this be better:

      (Ox2B | !0x2B) == 0xFFFFFFFF

      It better gives the idea of not... At least, IMHO.

    14. Re:Arrows by shish · · Score: 1

      I did that already; someone pointed out that !0x2B = 0, because it's a logical rather than binary not.

      --
      I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
    15. Re:Arrows by tmasssey · · Score: 1
      You are indeed correct.

      Reference

      Oh well... The "!" is certainly more expressive, but not accurate.

    16. Re:Arrows by sjames · · Score: 1

      One of the reasons for the OS redetecting hardware is that relying on the BIOS is less portable,

      Very true, but very ironic considering that BIOS was supposed to be the magic compatability layer.

  7. acronymfinder.com didn't help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    what's SBC? Single Box Computer? Server? System? what?

    1. Re:acronymfinder.com didn't help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Single Board Computer - aka cheap-and-nasty thing with no cards. Add power and boot.

      -D

    2. Re:acronymfinder.com didn't help by Repugnant_Shit · · Score: 3, Informative

      Single Board Computer. A computer with almost everything (sometimes even storage by way of flash/nvram) on a single board.

    3. Re:acronymfinder.com didn't help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Small Block Chevy

    4. Re:acronymfinder.com didn't help by virtualone · · Score: 0

      Spam BroadCast

      --
      Only morons moderate based on a sig.
    5. Re:acronymfinder.com didn't help by Repugnant_Shit · · Score: 2, Informative

      They are not cheap-and-nasty. They are primarily for embedded development, and can be quite expensive. They usually have everything a modern computer needs: ethernet, multi-megabyte storage, RAM, graphics adapter, etc. Most of the time a low-power CPU (like ARM) or an older x86 (486 or early Pentium). Sometimes they even include a small LCD display.

    6. Re:acronymfinder.com didn't help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative


      It's Single Board Computer.

      The most common computers out there. Probably outnumber desktops 10 to 1.

    7. Re:acronymfinder.com didn't help by Trejkaz · · Score: 1

      I know. People who post slashdot stories really need to remember to use the tag.

      --
      Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
  8. describes important design pitfalls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting



    Like, you know, a monolithic kernel?

    1. Re:describes important design pitfalls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All hail HURD! ... don't hurt me?

    2. Re:describes important design pitfalls by psetzer · · Score: 3, Funny

      How the mighty have fallen! I'd never expect to see Andrew Tanenbaum trolling Slashdot as AC.

      --
      "Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is living in a state of sin." -- John von Neumann
    3. Re:describes important design pitfalls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The superiority of modular design hasn't been validated scientifically and never will be. It's purely a matter of personal preference.

  9. Linux Boot by jon855 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Now I understand the boot process much better, I always have started at the boot up process and wonder what the hell is Linux doing to my computer, eh, I guess I understand now better in how it boots, I want to see a comparsion between Linux and Windows... newb linux user here loves it but hates ATI support.

    --
    May /. rule the /.ing realm
    1. Re:Linux Boot by Taladar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You got it wrong. Not the Linux Support for ATI is bad but the ATI Support for Linux is.

    2. Re:Linux Boot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it'll never improve due to the fact that linux users will never standardize on a single desktop distribution.

    3. Re:Linux Boot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still don't understand why Linux takes 10 minutes to boot up. It is way too slow.

    4. Re:Linux Boot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because of all the scripts that l1nux c0d3rz like to execute before init tosses control to the login processes.

    5. Re:Linux Boot by grolschie · · Score: 1

      ATI drivers are not so bad. Performance is pretty good really (I dual boot with 98SE and play ET on both). So they're not as easy to install as NVidia's, but hey this is Linux and we don't mind getting our hands dirty. err... well I use Debian so I don't mind. :-)

    6. Re:Linux Boot by GROOFY · · Score: 0

      You forget the all-important possibility that they just don't work, as happened with my shiny new x800 xt. No more linux right now :(

    7. Re:Linux Boot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    8. Re:Linux Boot by GROOFY · · Score: 0

      I didn't say that ATI didn't support it. They do. But nonetheless it still didn't work. I tried installing them myself, had a friend (a linux guru) try it, and: nada. nothing. squat. It didn't work at all. Maybe I should give it another go, but why bother when the computer I'm building will have a 6800 ultra?

    9. Re:Linux Boot by grolschie · · Score: 1

      Do you know how to compile your own kernel?

    10. Re:Linux Boot by jon855 · · Score: 0

      No I don't, I'm fairly new to Linux.

      --
      May /. rule the /.ing realm
    11. Re:Linux Boot by grolschie · · Score: 1

      The ATI drivers require a little knowledge about compiling kernels and modules. You need the kernel source installed at /usr/src/linux and ideally the same libraries and compiler versions installed that compiled your running kernel to compile the new FGLRX module. If you have just compiled and installed a new kernel, then you should have no problems there, unless you have updated your system immediately since then.

      For Debian users, there is a slightly easier way, but still involves the commandline stuff and some manual editing of the XF86Config-4 file.

    12. Re:Linux Boot by GROOFY · · Score: 0

      Yes, I do, but that's not the point. I have tried it several different ways, even going to the length of installing Mandrake (shudder) which does the drivers for you. Any way you cut, it doesn't work. :/

  10. More discussion? by mistersooreams · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The article makes an interesting read (although the server is getting slow already), but it seems a bit short on commentary. I'm no expert on the low-level systems of Linux, so the bare facts are quite interesting, but I would have been more interested to read a comparison of the merits of the different systems.

    My impression, from the article, is that x86 versions of Linux are carrying quite a lot of legacy (from DOS et al). Does this mean that Linux on other architectures is "better" in any sense? I don't know, but I'd be interested if someone can inform.

    1. Re:More discussion? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      "My impression, from the article, is that x86 versions of Linux are carrying quite a lot of legacy (from DOS et al). Does this mean that Linux on other architectures is "better" in any sense? I don't know, but I'd be interested if someone can inform."

      Once Linux has booted, it should not matter much.

      It is more the overall architecture that is better in the sense that it is "cleaner".

      For example, you don't need an extended/logical partition hack, you can have 32-64 equivalent partitions on a PowerPC with OpenFirmware (~BIOS~).

      If you take a Mac for example. To boot, the OpenFirmware can read directly the HFS (MacOS) and load the kernel. Actually, you could put your Linux kernel on OS X partition to boot it... But most people install a boot loader on a bootstrap partition (minimum is 800KB, compare that with a max of less than 512 bytes on x86 for first stage...). The boostrap is actually a HFS filesystem.

      So the boot for Linux on Mac hardware is:
      OpenFirmware ---> boot loader (in one stage) ---> load Linux kernel on ext2, reiserfs or other. With 800KB you have enough space to put code to read on several file system type.

      In the IBM article, they are talking about embedded system, the firmware loads directly the kernel in mem no need to load "intermediate software" called the boot loader.

      What is really stupid is the lengthy/complex process for x86-embedded. Windows for embedded stuff (Win CE?) is flexible and does not need the BIOS... neither does Linux...

    2. Re:More discussion? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Linux isn't carrying anything from DOS other than optional FAT filesystem support.

      BIOS loads boot loader, boot loader loads kernel, kernel loads init, init runs a bunch of scripts which in turn load the TTY/login processes. It's really not that complicated.

  11. Speaking of linux booting... by saskboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've always found it disconcerting that a verbose boot is given by default. Before Linux goes main stream on the home desktop, the distros ought to slap a plain progress bar with a pretty picture [ie. Windows clouds or logos] and not show verbose details unless something is wrong with the boot, or unusual.

    --
    Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    1. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by Claire-plus-plus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Mandrake 10.1 doesn't have verbose as default. It has a boring little progress bar. However, I prefer verbose mode gives me something to read while my computer is booting.

      --
      99 bottles of beer in 175 characte
    2. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by dmhoward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Most mainstream distributions already do this. For example: Fedora Core, Suse, and many others.

      Danial Howard

    3. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by yamcha666 · · Score: 4, Informative
      The distributions of Linux that are aimed for the main stream home desktop do use some type of a bootsplash.

      The most notable example I can give is Xandros. The booting process shows an animated Xandros logo with very general boot details such as detecting hardware... done, and Loading Kernel ... done.

      The distros that usually don't offer a type of bootsplash by default are aimed for us power users because we want to know what's going on.

    4. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by mattyrobinson69 · · Score: 1

      suse does this by default, not sure about other home distro's as i use gentoo myself.

    5. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by arkhan_jg · · Score: 4, Informative

      most modern distros do now, especially the livecd's and home-user orientated distros, the software that does it is called bootsplash. It relies on you having a graphic card/monitor supported by the frame buffer drivers though, so don't expect it to work on a 486. It comes in two flavours; a high res virtual terminal with a background image, or silent mode which just has a pretty screen and a progress bar until it launches gdm/kdm etc.

      If it's a server/professional workstation, the services boot loader is probably more useful. I'd sure like to have one on windows when I'm trying to troubleshoot a boot problem, without having to use safe mode - especially if the problem doesn't show up in safe mode...

      --
      Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
    6. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by SEE · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Bruce Tognazzini, founder the Apple Human Interface Group and fomer Apple Human Interface Evangelist, disagrees.

      Some might be surprised to learn, however, that not only do I accept the idea of having flashing updates, such as "loading the kernel," I actually embrace it. First, it keeps the user engaged, and an engaged user is a happy user. Second, it informs. Yes, I'm aware that the only kernel most people are aware off is armed with eleven herbs and spices, but that's because no one has ever introduced them to the UNIX/LINUX kernel.

      In ancient times, before there was disk, we all used tape cassettes to store our applications. We could literally hear them as they loaded into the computer over a period of one to three minutes. (Thank heavens today's hard disks are a million times faster so that, for example, Excel can load in only a few microseconds.) One might assume the sound of a loading program would be indistinguishable from random noise, but that proved not the case. Every application and every image had a unique signature. After a while, we could tell if we'd started the wrong program just by the sound of its code.

      Today, few modem users understand handshaking protocols, but they do become used to a familiar pattern of clicks and screeches indicating normal vs. abnormal connections.

      If regular folk can come to "understand" on some level the sound of high-speed binary code, do you think they cannot absorb some lessons from being subjected to new terminology like "kernel," etc.? Such terms so often come to be useful, as when some system software programmer spits out some horrifying message like, "fatal execution of kernel." At least they won't fear their supply of fried chicken is about to be cut off.

      Entertain them. Teach them a little something, even if it seems "way over their heads." At the very least, it will keep them awake and alert.
    7. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by supercowpowers · · Score: 3, Insightful
      After struggling with making my grandparents computer work with the Windows ME "recovery cd" that came with the computer (they didn't tell me I was going to be working on it, and didn't have the best of resources at hand...), I finally decided to just bite the bullet and install Debian and Gnome on it.

      I know, I know, Debian isn't exactly your "grandmother's distribution", but the distro in question is pretty irrelevant once I get to the point.

      Anyway, I set it up so they basically couldn't screw it up. They don't know the root password, GDM is set to automatically log in their user (yes, their, hilarity would ensue trying to get them to understand the concept of users) on boot, and the desktop has I think 5 icons, "user's home", "Computer", "Pogo Games" (they love this for some reason), "E-Mail" (evolution), "Internet" (loads google in firefox), and "Trash".

      They had to learn very few things to use this system, mainly what the icons do (which is easy because I made them visually huge and self explanatory), and how to shut down (Actions menu, not the Start menu)

      Some other measures I put into place, like making a backup of /home so I could log in remotely and fix it (I had to do this once, because one day the icon for pogo games magically disappeared, even though they "Didn't do anything, I swear!"), but this is really turning rambly really quick...just to give you an idea of how idiot-proof the thing is.

      They haven't had problems with it in about 2 months (since I installed it). Their usage is very basic, and this configuration serves them very well, since I can control the interface to be much less full of surprises than Windows.

      So the world is all well and rosy...well...not quite...

      I took no measures to clean up the default boot process, so it still outputs 'garbage' like
      APM Bios version 1.2 Flags 0x02 (Driver version 1.2)
      Entry f000:c64e cseg16f000 dseg f000 cseg len ffff, dseg len ffff
      Connection version 1.1
      AC off line, batter status high, battery life 82
      [and so on...]
      It fills the entire screen, and scrolls by so fast they couldn't comprehend it even if they knew what it all meant.

      So I've counted about 5 times so far where my grandmother asks something like, "Now, is all that writing going to come up for good now?" It really, deeply bothers them to see all that as opposed to a pretty Windows logo. Not that I blame them.

      So, that progress bar might be 'boring' to you, but it's blissful simplicity to somebody like my grandparents.

      (FWIW, I prefer to see it all on a 1024x768 framebuffer, because I want to know when something is configured wrongly but can still pass that stage failing silently)
      --
      Nyntändo-Schock!
    8. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by pkbarbiedoll · · Score: 2, Informative

      SuSE (at least 9.x) has this splash window you refer to.

    9. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      My experience with the Mandrake 10.1 progress bar is that it's really dumb. It will zip up to a point, then spend 95% of the time stuck there, and then zip to the end. They should just go with some simple animation like what Windows XP / OS X does.

      On a somewhat unrelated note, I have also not figured out why Mandrake 10.1 takes far longer to boot up on a much more powerful computer than my Mandrake 10.0 system.

    10. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd sure like to have one on windows when I'm trying to troubleshoot a boot problem

      If you're using Windows 2000/XP/2003 then add the switch /SOS to the appropriate line in boot.ini to see a verbose boot.

    11. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by mickwd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "It will zip up to a point, then spend 95% of the time stuck there, and then zip to the end."

      "On a somewhat unrelated note, I have also not figured out why Mandrake 10.1 takes far longer to boot up on a much more powerful computer than my Mandrake 10.0 system."

      Somewhat unrelated ???!!!

      Why don't you try pressing Escape just before the progress bar gets stuck, and find out which particular part of the boot process is causing all the delay. Mandrake may well be trying to set up some service or some piece of hardware that you don't actually use. If so, you can remove the item in question from you setup configuration. This probably explains why Mandrake 10.1 boots slower than 10.0 for you.

    12. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "Excel can load in only a few microseconds."

      Can't comment... absurdity overload...

    13. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by rpetre · · Score: 1

      I always get those delays when my dhcp or ntp client finds itself with no network, and I use Ctrl-C to cut the waiting time. So what this post and the parent mean to say is "find out what the heck gets stuck and take it out". Or use the boot-up time to do something useful ;-)

    14. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by pclminion · · Score: 1
      Progress bars suck. Inevitably, they jump from 0% to 90% within seconds and then take another 2 minutes to finish the remaining 10%.

      Progress bars are from hell, I can't believe you suggested that.

    15. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Somewhat unrelated ???!!!

      I wish that would work. With the old computer, I would make my choice in LILO, and it would instantly start booting. With the new one, I make my choice in LILO, and get this progress bar accross the bottom of the LILO screen, which inches accross while the computer appears to be doing absolutely nothing, gets stuck almost at the end, sits there a while, then launches into the graphical boot (where ESC does work). That part goes slow but no surprises there.

    16. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by mickwd · · Score: 2, Informative

      Maybe the kernel is freezing for a while, rather than the startup scripts.

      Just on the off-chance......got a motherboard that supports serial-ATA ? My kernel would hang for 30 seconds trying to detect a (non-existant) second ATA disk. Adding "hdg=noprobe" to the kernel boot line (/boot/grub/menu.lst in my case, maybe something like /etc/lilo.conf in yours) cures this for me.

    17. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like to be able to do that, like SuSE 9.2. But, in my Knoppix remaster, the /etc/init.d/knoppix-autoconfig is a great place to put messages concerning installation of certain home directory items that I have had to force in, via this file. Eventually, I streamlined the use of such messages, placing one at the end of a long line of items to show that all has been done.

    18. Re:Speaking of linux booting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gentoo is currently working on a framebuffer splash that can be set to silent or verbose. I personally leave mine on verbose.

  12. Fire safety and misdirected arrows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
    Lewin A.R.W. Edwards works for a Fortune 50 company as a wireless security/fire safety device design engineer.

    Time to stop trusting that the arrows if emergency exit signs are right now too?

    1. Re:Fire safety and misdirected arrows? by bigdavex · · Score: 1

      I had the pleasure of visiting Mont Saint Michel in France. Most of the signs are written in French, English, and German. One of my friends speaks some German, and he didn't recognize the German translation for exit. He probably just didn't recognize a synonym, but we got a kick out of the idea that the French had labeled the fire exit "Explosives" or some such for the benefit of their German visitors.

      --
      -Dave
    2. Re:Fire safety and misdirected arrows? by larwe · · Score: 1

      Chuckle (yes, I am Lewin A.R.W. Edwards). In fact I work in a small team in a very specialized corner of the aforementioned F50 company. I work almost exclusively on the firmware in radio receivers and short-range transceivers. Anyway, trust me: our QA people, regulatory agency testing and beta testers are a lot more diligent than IBM's graphics guys :)

  13. don't like the splash screens by LiquidMind · · Score: 3, Interesting

    i've noticed on SuSE that it now comes with a boot splash screen (a la Windows loading...). I know that's (somewhat) easily turned off, but really, I don't want my linux to be all fisher-price pretty. give me the rough and unadulterated command lines that are run when it boots up...make it look cool, make it intimidating, give it that matrix-esque feel...make it scare off all the n00bs that think they know everything.

    --
    This sig contains repetition and redundancy.
    1. Re:don't like the splash screens by rpozz · · Score: 1

      In that case, you probably want to use something like Gentoo. SuSE is designed to be a workstation for an average user.

    2. Re:don't like the splash screens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i just wrote a brainfuck REPL OS that fits in a 512-byte boot sector. want it? $699.

    3. Re:don't like the splash screens by jrcamp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you don't want "your linux" to be "fisher-price pretty" then "go turn it the hell off in your grub menu.lst". How long does it take you to remove the splash kernel parameter? A lot less time than it does to bitch on slashdot.

      I mean isn't Linux all about choice and configurability?

    4. Re:don't like the splash screens by m50d · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It should be friendly by default, because people who don't want it to be friendly can easily turn it off, but people who want it friendlier wouldn't know how to make it so.

      --
      I am trolling
    5. Re:don't like the splash screens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      make it scare off all the n00bs that think they know everything.

      Obviously, it didn't work...

  14. The BSD boot process by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    And here i Present you the BSD boot process

    1) birth
    2) death (confirmed by netcraft)

  15. Speaking of Windows booting... by xtermin8 · · Score: 1

    I've always wished Windows would do verbose boot by default! I find nothing more disconcerting than having a Win system hang at boot with nothing but a damn logo to look at!

    1. Re:Speaking of Windows booting... by saskboy · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can press ESC when Windows it loading, at least for the Windows 98 series, and it gives your autoexec and config.sys anyway if you have them set to echo. Windows 2000 and XP booting into safemode have verbose boots.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    2. Re:Speaking of Windows booting... by Luigi30 · · Score: 1

      If you press ESC at the wrong time, however, it causes a protection fault and hangs the computer.

      --
      503 Sig Unavailable

      The Signature could not be accessed. Please try again later or contact the administrator
    3. Re:Speaking of Windows booting... by daveb · · Score: 1
      If you press ESC at the wrong time, however, it causes a protection fault and hangs the computer.

      you've got a problem with your install then. I routinly do that and have never ever had that happen

    4. Re:Speaking of Windows booting... by niteice · · Score: 1

      2000/XP don't really have a verbose boot, just a list of drivers and such being loaded and then an NT4-style info screen (Microsoft Windows Version 5.1 (Build 2600)) if you boot with the /sos switch.

      --
      ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
  16. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aren't you cool

  17. Tried a modern distro? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Give something like Mandrake or Fedora Core a try. The only times I see that it doesn't give a graphical boot with the text hidden is when frame buffers don't work with that video card.

  18. Damn right by SweetAndSourJesus · · Score: 2, Funny

    The last thing we want to see is more people using Linux.

    Frickin' noobs, eh?

    --

    --
    the strongest word is still the word "free"
  19. The article: by killa62 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Contents:
    The x86 Linux boot process
    The non-x86 Linux boot process
    A few alternatives
    Summary
    Resources
    About the author
    Rate this article
    Related content:
    Migrating from x86 to PowerPC, Part 1
    Standards and specs: Open Firmware -- the bridge between power-up and OS
    Subscriptions:
    dW newsletters
    Design notes for hardware and firmware involved in booting embedded Linux

    Level: Introductory

    Lewin Edwards (sysadm@zws.com)
    Design Engineer
    08 Feb 2005

    This installment of "Migrating from x86 to PowerPC" discusses detailed similarities and differences between booting Linux on an x86-based platform (typically a PC-compatible SBC) and a custom embedded platform based around PowerPC, ARM, and others. It discusses suggested hardware and software designs and highlights the tradeoffs of each. It also describes important design pitfalls and best practices.

    This article describes the most common traits of embedded Linux(TM) distributions that people employ on x86 hardware and contrasts some of the different options frequently seen on non-x86 embedded systems.

    By the time a system has booted itself to the point where it can run your application-level code, any one variant of Linux is, practically by definition, largely similar to another. However, there are several different methodologies that you can use to get the system from power-on reset to a running kernel, and beyond that point, you can construct the filesystem in which your application will run in different ways.

    Each approach has its own distinct advantages and disadvantages, and a definite, two-way relationship exists between the hardware you choose to implement and the way you will structure the power-up and Initial Program Load (IPL) process. Understanding the software options available to you is a critical part of the research you must do before designing or selecting hardware.

    The x86 Linux boot process
    The most fundamental and obvious difference between x86 boards and embedded systems based on PPC, ARM, and others is that the x86 board will ship with one or more layers of manufacturer-supplied "black box" firmware that helps you with power-on initialization and the task of loading the operating system out of secondary storage. This firmware takes the system from a cold start to a known, friendly software environment ready to run your operating system. Figure 1 is a diagram of the typical PC boot process, with considerably more detail than you tend to find in PC-centric literature:

    Figure 1. Typical start-up process for x86 Linux
    Typical start-up process for x86 Linux

    For cost reasons, modern PC mainboard BIOS code is always stored compressed in flash. The only directly executable code in that chip is a tiny boot stub. Therefore, the first task on power-up is to initialize the mainboard chipset enough to get the DRAM controller working so that the main BIOS code can be decompressed out of flash into a mirror area in RAM, referred to as shadow RAM. This area is then write-protected and control is passed to the RAM-resident code. Shadow RAM is permanently stolen by the mainboard chipset; it cannot later be reclaimed by the operating system. For legacy reasons, special hardware mappings are set up so that the shadow RAM areas appear in the CPU's real-mode memory map at the locations where old operating systems like MS-DOS would expect to find them.

    Keep in mind that the PC is an open architecture. This openness even extends down to firmware modules within the BIOS itself. Once the power-on initialization (POI) code has run, the next step it takes is to enumerate peripherals, and optionally install hooks provided by expansion ROMs in those peripherals. (Some of those expansion ROMs -- for instance, the video BIOS in a system that has onboard integrated video hardware -- will physically reside in the main BIOS image, but conceptually they are separate entities). The reasons the BIOS has to do this redundant initialization are:

    1. Th

    1. Re:The article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Because IBM is so easily slashdotted.

    2. Re:The article: by grozzie2 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I _think_ the ibm site can handle a /. swarm. No need to karma whore this one.

  20. Should be "BIOS" vs. "known hardware" by pchan- · · Score: 4, Informative

    This article glosses over one point that is very critical. That is, in an embedded system, the hardware is known at compile time, as well as all the details of initializing it. On a desktop PC, the hardware configuration is a mystery everytime you boot. Who knows, maybe the user decided to move their network card to a different PCI slot and now it has a different memory address, add a hard drive, remove a sound card, take out half the RAM. This makes the boot process far more complicated. The BIOS method of dealing with this situation is archaeic and painful to use, but it works. That is, you can boot even the dumbest OS (say, DOS, or that memtest86 iso) without having that PS know anything about the hardware.

    Having written a few embedded bootloaders (and modified some others), I will say that booting an embedded device is far far easier than booting a device who's hardware (that is critical to booting) can change between boots.

    1. Re:Should be "BIOS" vs. "known hardware" by renoX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While you're right about the difference, the truth is: when you boot a PC, 99.99% of the time the hardware is identical to what it was the last time.

      So it should be possible to store an HW description into a small flash and boot *fast*, without having to discover hardware, and if the user want to add new critical "cold-plug" hardware (such as boot disk), he would just have to hit Del at the boot, and then a HW discover would be made..

    2. Re:Should be "BIOS" vs. "known hardware" by Taladar · · Score: 1

      Perhaps there could be a BIOS Parameter to switch to "intelligent OS" to get the BIOS to skip Hardware Detection. Making the Boot Process of Linux faster does not yield much if the BIOS takes 10+ seconds to get to the Bootloader.

    3. Re:Should be "BIOS" vs. "known hardware" by claes · · Score: 1

      Let's be realistic. 99.99 % if the time means one in 10000 boots, if you boot every day, it would take you close to 30 years before you install new hardware.

    4. Re:Should be "BIOS" vs. "known hardware" by sjames · · Score: 1

      Perhaps there could be a BIOS Parameter to switch to "intelligent OS" to get the BIOS to skip Hardware Detection.

      Actually, it doesn't look like hardware detection is the cause of the big delays in BIOS. LinuxBIOS accomplishes that in a fraction of a second.

      The big delay seems to be truly horrible code, pointless self testing (I'll know the video is bad when I don't see a picture!) no reasonable standards for resource allocation between the many modular componants of BIOS requiring each module to duplicate work and be coded defensively (to an extreme, and they still stomp all over each other sometimes).

      As for the rest of the 1.5 minute BIOS process on a dual CPU board, I have no idea.

  21. Stop plagiarizing! by Osty · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the Slashdot submission:

    This article discusses detailed similarities and differences involved in booting Linux on an x86-based platform (typically a PC-compatible SBC) and a custom embedded platform based around PowerPC, ARM, and others. It discusses suggested hardware and software designs and highlights the tradeoffs of each. It also describes important design pitfalls and best practices.
    And from the actual article:
    This installment of "Migrating from x86 to PowerPC" discusses detailed similarities and differences between booting Linux on an x86-based platform (typically a PC-compatible SBC) and a custom embedded platform based around PowerPC, ARM, and others. It discusses suggested hardware and software designs and highlights the tradeoffs of each. It also describes important design pitfalls and best practices.
    Replacing the string "This installment of "Migrating from x86 to PowerPC"" with "This article" and replacing the word "between" with the phrase "involved in" is not sufficient to serve as summarization in the submitter's own words. Somehow I have a hard time believing that the submitter "Donna" and the article author Lewin Edwards are one and the same person. If I'm wrong, then fine. You can't plagiarize yourself. If I'm correct, then Slashdot's done it again. The article summary isn't an original work by Donna, but a minor modification of the article author's own summary, and should be properly attributed as such.
    1. Re:Stop plagiarizing! by T-Ranger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I dont even think that you could argue that the poster implicitly tried to pass of the summary as his own work. Slashdot summaries of single articles generally dont add anything new (and frequently get it wrong). It is an abstract of the article. Since a well written introduction should itself be an abstract of the rest of the article, what makes a better abstract then a polished intro?

    2. Re:Stop plagiarizing! by Osty · · Score: 1

      I dont even think that you could argue that the poster implicitly tried to pass of the summary as his own work. Slashdot summaries of single articles generally dont add anything new (and frequently get it wrong). It is an abstract of the article. Since a well written introduction should itself be an abstract of the rest of the article, what makes a better abstract then a polished intro?

      The problem is one of attribution. By using the phrase, "Donna writes," Slashdot is attributing the written summary to her. She obviously made some attempt at not copying the abstract verbatim, but it was half-assed and wouldn't stand up to scrutiny. Compare that with this article summary:

      Saint Aardvark writes "Here's a page on the fun you can have with a remote control Abrams tank and a wireless video camera. "I really wanted a way to look for under house leaks and stuff and, in the manner of a responsible home owner, get early warning so I could increase the effectiveness of... Ok, that's a lie. In reality, I wanted an excuse to put a camera on my R/C tank and drive it around scary tunnels, and this just happened to fit my purposes perfectly." Movies included!"
      The submitter Saint Aardvark wrote a one-sentence summary, and then properly quoted from the article (by enclosing the quoted bit in quotation marks, with citation provided by the article link). Here's a sample of what Donna could've written:
      The second article in a series on migrating Linux from x86 to PowerPC has been posted on IBM developerWorks. "This installment of "Migrating from x86 to PowerPC" discusses detailed similarities and differences between booting Linux on an x86-based platform (typically a PC-compatible SBC) and a custom embedded platform based around PowerPC, ARM, and others. It discusses suggested hardware and software designs and highlights the tradeoffs of each. It also describes important design pitfalls and best practices."
      That summarizes the story in a single sentence (it's the second article in a series on some topic), cites the article, and properly quotes the abstract for more information. Alternatively, she could've just prefaced the quoted abstract with "From the (linked article), "..."," and still been okay. Even then, had she not done that, the Slashdot editors could've easily written, "Donna quotes, "..."," rather than, "Donna writes," and still been okay. As it is, none of that was done, and the implication is that Donna wrote the abstract. She didn't.
  22. Stop posting these sucky IBM DevWorks articles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please!!

    1. Re:Stop posting these sucky IBM DevWorks articles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's right descriptions of computer boot processes could help terrorists to construct a time machine. They are un-American. If you support detailed IBM Dev articles about Linux boot processes you support acts of internationaal terrorism.

  23. My boot process by i.r.id10t · · Score: 5, Funny

    Open the office, turn on the computer, walk out of the office, walk across campus to the cafeteria while ogling the young college chicks, get a cup of coffee, walk back, log in, do work.

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    1. Re:My boot process by advocate_one · · Score: 1

      prep and start the coffee drip machine... turn the monitor back on... waggle the mouse... click the reload button on the browser window... that's it... fresh slashdot to read while the coffee's brewing...

      10:02:08 up 218 days, 21:51, 6 users, load average: 0.17, 0.08, 0.07

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  24. Or something based off rhgb... by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 2, Informative

    Some people don't use the framebuffer drivers because they have a "better" xorg driver and they might be incompatible. So bootsplash doesn't work. What you can use is rhgb. When entering runlevel 5 it loads X ASAP during the boot process and has a special progress screen. When it's time to load XDM/GDM the greeter script kills rhgb but keeps the X session for itself. (This is important because if X went down and then up again, you'd have to sit through two screen blank-outs while the monitor gets re-probed)

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  25. Splash screens when things go wrong by AnotherScratchMonkey · · Score: 1
    I like to tell people that Windows is nice when everything is working the way you expect, but terrible to debug when the unexpected happens, because it's so hard to dig useful information out of the system.

    The same applies to boot splash screens. The verbose screen lets you know exactly where a fault is occurring, so you have some hope of fixing it.

    You also get a much better idea of how far you are from a useful desktop, by seeing the service names. A simple progress meter rarely updates consistently, so it doesn't really give a good estimate of how much time is left.

  26. Re:Speaking of linux booting... babble by saskboy · · Score: 1

    That's an interesting point about keeping the user informed, even if they don't realize it. I suppose it could be more useful for troubleshooting if the last thing to freeze onto the screen is the process that is failing to load completely, but from the computers of long ago, to the modern Windows computer, a boot screen is usually just one screen long, after the POST, and essentially just says [OS] loading ...

    From the Apple ][e, to the Radio Shack Tandys, to MS-DOS 3.3, to Windows 98, these highly sucessful home user systems had a simple boot screen that didn't scroll drivers and vxds unless told to do so.

    There's a difference between informing a user, and making them think they may be in over their head with technobabble about abbreviated system file names that only programmers have any idea as to their function. Perhaps if the driver's real world, translated name were used, such as keyboard driver loaded is displayed instead of loading kb.sys ...

    --
    Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
  27. funny.... by zogger · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...I alway find that is one of the funner things with linux from day one after my first install, even if I haven't a clue what the hell is going on. I just sit there hyp-mo-tized -> LOOKATHERGO! DANGTHASCOOL!

    kinda fun in an admittedly strange way, it's also cool to see how your leet speed reading is, if you can keep up.

  28. bootchart site moved. by Iamnoone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A couple of other posts refer to this indirectly.
    Bootchart is actually some of the coolest use of graphical display of data I have seen in a while:
    bootchart
    Some of the Solaris 10 guys even used it to improve the boot process on new releases of Solaris 10.
    The latest updates (as of a few days ago) continued to streamline the system.

  29. Login screen way to late. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Just between where the login screen appears and the end of boot system dies. A little bug. Found it on 2 ghz or faster machines due to the short time of boot.

    You can even do it after pressing ESC. It is simpler to do that way.

    1. Re:Login screen way to late. by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Just between where the login screen appears and the end of boot system dies. A little bug. Found it on 2 ghz or faster machines due to the short time of boot.

      You can even do it after pressing ESC. It is simpler to do that way.


      I seem to recall Microsoft released a patch to fix that very problem. Though I haven't worked with a "fast" Win9x system for a while now. (where fast is better than a 800Mhz Celeron)

      I always just disabled the splash screens in Win9x anyway, I think using TweakUI.

  30. Imposter!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Small Block Chevy

    You're not a nerd! I bet you even have a girlfriend and/or tattoo!

  31. Re:minigirls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it wasn't real kiddie porn, but if you want to see some, type "russian teens" into your google toolbar. russia's age of consent is 14.

  32. Re:Lacking CS Degree. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember the moment.
    Explaining LILO. Friends. Relatives are not impressed.
    " Is that all it is. A window with a few buttons. "
    Of. Technological proficiency. Knowing.
    Boot code articulated with " plain," intelligible language.
    Embedded. Operating Systems. Kernel Versions. RAM.
    ROM. Isn't this the boy reared by wolves?
    Frank Lloyd Wright. For what it's worth. Logic boards.
    Black-Box-Firmware-HelperCode. Good article.
    And. That Linux perspective. Linear.

  33. Worst Anatomy Lesson Ever! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wanted to learn about the private parts.

  34. How would it change booting in parallel by criquet · · Score: 1
  35. or ispell upgrade by TheLittleJetson · · Score: 1

    boooyaca.

  36. You know, by NewOrleansNed · · Score: 1

    Some people go mountain climbing, some people skydive, and some people even get into boxing and martial arts.

    But to me, nothing says manly man like booting into Linux without the splash screen. That, and I can get the same BO that they can by just not bathing for a few days. People don't tease me for my Super Mario tattoo anymore.... well, they seem to avoid me as a general rule so they probably couldn't determine what it is anyway... maybe a big mole or something... but hey, that's the studly vibe I wanted to portray anyway!

    Hoo-ah!

  37. Any way to log the entire boot process? by Sark666 · · Score: 1

    I know there are various logs, but I've some things I want to investigate in boot process and hell if i can find it, looking it dmesg, /var/log. I wish there was a way to store the ENTIRE boot process in one log. Is there?

  38. Hotswapping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    lol.. a reboot might have got you up and running again sooner, huh? ;)

    Seriously... for hot swapping PCI, you need a mobo that specifically supports it. It has something to do (or everything to do?) with extra grounding to handle shorting, I believe.

    Hot swapping would definitely be useful for cutting down on reboots. Not sure if it's possible with AGP though.

  39. Gentoo bootsplash by horza · · Score: 1

    I haven't tried it yet (am about to), but for Gentoo there is Gensplash

    Phillip.

  40. Where in the source is the screen getting cleared? by bundaegi · · Score: 1
    I am booting linux 2.4 via syslinux and a usb flash smartmedia (16 megs SMs and readers were incredibly cheap) I got a nice logo up using syslinux. The booting goes like:
    • displaying the logo
    • displaying loading linux.....
    • displaying loading init_rd.....
    • the screen is cleared and the words Uncompressing linux... Ok, booting the kernel.
    I found the relevent bit of code in linux/arch/i386/boot/compressed/misc.c
    I also found a reset_terminal() in linux/drivers/char/console.c but tweaking it doesn't seem to help.

    I could go for the bootsplash patch, but that adds nearly 200K to the (compressed) kernel.

    I don't really want to as I'd be happy to just have the Uncompressing linux... line under my syslinux logo (640x480x16 colours only adds 10K to the distribution). After that, all the kernel messages are sent to /dev/ttyS1 so they don't appear on the screen.

    So, anybody knows where in the kernel source (preferably 2.4) is the screen cleared? Any clues I could follow?

    --
    bundaegi is good for you
  41. Re:Where in the source is the screen getting clear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    So, anybody knows where in the kernel source (preferably 2.4) is the screen cleared? Any clues I could follow?

    I'm not sure if the boot code uses the BIOS to clear the screen or does it by itself. If it uses the BIOS, look for references to int 0x10 in the code.

    If it clears it itself, look for a memory address of 0xb8000, that is the address of the text-mode screen buffer.

  42. must be an english major by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That was rather poetic. Take a moment and absorb some culture.

  43. Re:Where in the source is the screen getting clear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Any clues I could follow?
    Just an idea, have a look at this document:

    Linux Kernel 2.4 Internals. Subsection 1.6 points to a initialise console step in init/main.c:start_kernel()

  44. Why isn't the PC BIOS fully 32-bit yet? by master_p · · Score: 1

    ...and why does the PC have to boot in the outdated 16-bit console environment? The PC's strange boot environment forces operating systems to jump through hoops in order to load the kernel. Isn't it time for all PCs to boot in 32-bit flat mode (unprotected, without paging)?

  45. Re:Did I... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thou'rt quite the hakker!