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Linspire Five-0 First Look
Eugenia writes "OSNews posted an exclusive first look for the upcoming Linspire 5.0: 'Linspire Five-0 is definitely a good base from which to build. The lack of well rounded applications when compared to other OSes in its class leave me wanting more, however, a slick look, some powerful Linspire specific apps, and a non-crippled undercarriage remain appealing' says the author." The bigger question will be how it stacks up against other commericial offerings in the long run. (ITMJ is also owned by OSTG).
Linspire Five-0?
Boot 'em, Danno.
I don't know, but the name Linspire just doesn't sound good to me. They should've called this operating system somethinig much more descriptive of what it does... The only thing that jumps out to me is Lindows. I wonder why they didn't think of that name?
I'm a big tall mofo.
The question is, do they still reccomend users to log in as root for everday use? The thing that put me off Linspire the most was that they have the full power of the Unix security model but they don't bother using it.
One good turn - gets all the covers.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I don't really see why distributions should mimic windows. Those who bother to install any os install like windows or some linuxes can probably adept to gnome or kde easily. And the windows interface definately aint the best around. The real problem is microsoft's hold of the big OEMs. To me that's the clearest abuse of their monopoly, yet they aren't really attacked for it...
a) it's "Ubuntu", not "unbunto".
b) buying a distro is often a good choice.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Nothing.
Unless, of course, you are in that 90% of the population that would rather gouge their eyes out with spoons than use the command line :)
Don't forget the target audience for CNR is probably not the sort of people who hang around here or OSNews. For that, it does what it does pretty well.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
Above is a dupe comment, which strangely enough got modded +5 funny the first time around and is now considered a troll. Such a lovely perfect analysis tool, this mod-system.
from the article:
"Dropshadowing in Linux is still pretty rare, and is not always very effective."
pretty rare?
I thought that anybody who used KDE,
and had a fast computer, would have those turned on by default, (that kde wizard that makes thing look shinnnyyy...)
or through the control panel.
drop shadowing (IMHO) has been around since 3.1
I wonder with Linspire the same thing I wonder about Paint Shop Pro. If they actually increased the price of Linspire to something only just lower (about five dollars) than Windows XP Home Ed., bundling the extras in, putting it in a pretty box in as many stores as they can (department stores, gaming stores, supermarkets even if they can), and releasing a discounted OEM version, then it might be even more successful. Right now it looks like a cheap Windows knockoff (cause basically that's what it is). If they started to project the same or similar image as Windows, projecting an image of superiority at a better price then people may consider it side by side with Windows very seriously indeed.
People automatically assume you get what you pay for, even when a lot of the time that's completely false. An OS is a big important tool, and people are probably going to be careful. If they raise the price, I think people would take it more seriously, Linspire will make huge amounts of money and hopefully give back to linux, and linux would gain popularity as a result.
Just me wondering...
"How can this be that a commercial OS doesn't include DVD playback?"
Erm... I'd like to add another commercial OS that doesn't play DVD's right out of the box to this shocking list: Windows XP.
At least with WMP9 I get a "Windows Media Player cannot play this DVD because a compatible DVD decoder is not installed on your computer".
I've been using Mdklinux 10.1 for several months and it's incredibly powerful and stable, with thousands applications available from a simple click or a urpmi. Really worth a try.
Disclaimer: Newsforge is part of OSTG.
I think click-and-run fits very well with plug-and-pray ...
The only person who is capable of killing my karma, is me, do not even try to help me.
Like in Linspire 4.0, you have to prep a partition ahead of time or take over the entire disk at install
Is it only me or this should not happen in a new distro installer?
More so considering it is oriented to windows users.
Fairly funny, but you might want to try spelling "Mandela" right from here on out. :)
The real first mistake was failing to cover up the fact they've made an illegal copy of Napoleon Dynamite.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
I forgot to mention the newly released Mandrakelinux Corporate Desktop which looks very promising as a client OS for businesses. It's also very affordable ($109 with one-year 24x7 support).
Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? I mean here we have a desktop that requires more or less the same horsepower as Windows to run. Is slightly less functional than Windows to use strictly as a desktop and costs slightly less than windows to own? It doesn't seem like a wonderful bargain. Perhaps something like ELX or Vectorlinux which can be had for free and install on cheap hardware is the way to go instead of trying to reverse engineer the functionality of windows.
I think the Linux folks need to accept that Windows really is a better choice for some functions at least from a simple "I just need to do what I do PoV" and if you go the Linux route it's not to replicate Windows functionality but instead to do someother thing, introduce some other function. Of course in a corporate environment the support costs of maintaining a Linux desktop evironment appear less in light of fewer security problems and an inherent ability to push updates to desktops but that has to be weighed against the skills of the user base and the questions and problems they will have. On the other hand unless your own time is free and you don't like managing the innumerable security patches, personal firewall, AV update, spyware circus that is home LAN administration for Windows then why not get a bunch of Macs? It's BSD based, pretty tough, industrial strength Unix under the covers and the price point of a MiniMac or an iMac make it pretty attractive.
For the most part, that is. If you like bittwiddling and really want to build a something and that's your hobby then fine, have at it. But it really doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to struggle with a Linux desktop that isn't designed specifically around ease of installation and ease of use AND lower cost. If you need the same brand new high powered PC hardware to run it AND installation is still problematic AND configuration is still a chore AND you still have to struggle with NTFS volume mounts, Wine and Windows applications then what have you solved?
Creds go to TapeCutter. Soon you shall actually find out who or what VMS is...
I'm not worried about Napoleon Dynamite. I was worried about the Windows-like look and feel. Everything seems to look the same and is named the same...
:P
More lawsuits? Only against the people who miss the joke here.
Surely if you were proud you wouldn't post anonymously...
Hmm, my previous post appears to have attracted one of the harmful mod-points you so gallantly were trying to lead away from the serious posts.
I had no idea my innocent observations had trolling-qualities hiding in them.
I must be underestimating the power of my words.
Gaaaahh ... Idiots !!!! ..
I think linspire will change their business profile
from selling Linux systems to selling "Bust Must+"
And plastic tupperware...
ala "Onkel Rico"
Thanks.
Am I the only person who read the headline as a five-nil score for Linspire against First Look? So it's actually a version number, then?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I don't really see why distributions should mimic windows. Those who bother to install any os install like windows or some linuxes can probably adept to gnome or kde easily.
/.ers. Unfortunately, Joe Users(TM) are still the great majority among computer users.
Emphasis on "those who bother". Linspire are aiming for Joe User. THE Joe User(TM), not even Joe Advanced User who might be able to do a format c: on his Windows PC every now and then or have the skills and curiosity to try out other apps than those which come with their OS.
Joe User(TM) can't do this. He's the kind of guy who can only write email by clicking 'reply' in Outlook Express and who gets lost immediately if the IE logo on his Windows desktop is replaced by, say, Firefox. Joe Users are extremely conservative when it comes to computers, apps and their GUIs. If anything is changed, they panic and think they have to start all over with learning even that little stuff they've managed to learn with their computerphobia.
This is the crowd Linspire are aiming for, and that's why they are making their Linux distro as redmondised as possible. They don't care about Joe Advanced Users or
In my opinion, Linspire are right in doing so. Many other Linux distros overwhelm the n00bie with their abudance of software. Only advanced users long for a wealth of apps to begin with.
I think the Linux folks will keep up the hard work of development until they don't have to make any concessions to anybody.
But to the extent that Joe Average has to make concessions to the Losedows monopoly, even a Mac can be a stretch. Anything Wintel boxen can do, Macs can do better (or could, if you judge the platform by what game titles get released for it) in a single-platform environment. But when my Dad asked me if he should buy a Mac, I had to realize I wasn't dealing with a YMMV kinda guy. He would flip out the first time a Macro or bullet point didn't make it from an Office 97 document into Office for Mac OS X. Even if the same thing happened between two Windoze-based titles, it wouldn't have the stigma of resulting from a departure from the mainstream. And yes, with Dad that's a major stigma.
However, having installed cable modems and having watched pop-up windows with links to fake Windoze-update sites appear within a second of the plug hitting the ethernet port (when the user still has to open the provider's web page through their "garden wall" and submit a registration to get the modem set to keep giving out a DHCP lease), if Dad goes broadband I'm going to tell him to call me so I can schedule to be there.
When you can tell the people who don't have one of us to come over, "You got hacked. You can either reinstall Windows and hope it doesn't happen again before you can download Zone Alarm, or slap in this Linux disc, let the auto-install do its thing, watch the help video, and not have a care in the world." Linux will absolutely explode in the consumer market. (Obviously they will and should have a care, but it can get a lot closer to true than it is for everyone else who makes that claim.)
Linspire although often put down by geeks as unsophisticated compared to its debian/geentoo/redhat/ madrake.
Note that if you poke around the homepage, no mention of if KDE/Gnome is the desktop of choice. The users he's targeting don't care, they just want a machine that works, without popups and spyware.. They "click and run" subscription seems like apt-get but for money and easier.
Linspire however represents linux's best attempt to make a Linux OS that anyone including your grandmother can use. Its not great yet, but its pretty ok. And comming pre-installed on machines from walmart\ and microcenter and it seems pretty affordable, so it seems to have some traction.
They want to be the mac os-x of linux world. Just look at their homepage . Look like this? Its not coincidence.
Heck they even have a itunes "clone" they sell. called lsongs. (l for linux/ songs = tunes, get it ).
Software is a funny business. Volume means alot.
So if linspire is making money, expect it to improve. Hopefully all improvements they make come back and make all linux's better.
Actually, the first mistake was using a screenshot of windows for a Linspire review.
Linux for cops?
I agree... here is a great sentence:
Now, burning a DVD was fairly easy using K3b. While burning a DVD, however, the system was fairly slow.
Edited:
Burning a DVD was fairly easy using K3b, but the system was fairly slow.
These fairly elementary mistakes-- Someone really should rewrite this article.
You're probably right and I understand this is the motivation to make linspire. But as you say yourself, Joe Average is unable to install a new OS. Which means that they won't ever come to try linspire unless it comes pre-installed with the computer, which doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.
You are SOOOO clueless!
Linspire is 100% open source WITH TWO EXCEPTIONS:
1. Their CNR (click n run) which is actually more a service anyway, not software. This is how they make their money.
2. They DO include licensed 3rd party codecs, such as Flash, Java, Quick Time, Windows Media, MP3, DVD Playback, etc. This, however, is exactly what I like about Linspire. Sure, they work with Ogg, and open formats just like any distro, but the world is full of flash, java, quick time, etc. as well, so I'm glad they play these formats. What good is a web browser if you can't use half the web sites???
Linspire has done A LOT for open source and GIVEN ALL THE CODE BACK. Lsongs, Nvu, Lphoto, Mozilla, etc.
http://linspire.com/opensource
Your comments only show your ignorance.
I've learned to ONLY post on Slashdot when I know of something FIRST HAND. Others here just have to chime in on EVERY topic, even if they don't have any first-hand knowledge or insight into the topic.
Hans
As far as I know, Linspire is complying with the GPL and other licenses. Their process might deviate from traditional Unix norms but it's their product. The beautiful thing about open source (and freedom in general) is that it allows people to do things that you might not agree with.
i meant to say there's no market because joe avarage cant install it, and it will not be available preinstalled in the foreseable future....
1. Too Windowsy, No linux geek is his right mind would espouse to using it, at least not the ones I know.
.02$.
2. Its a Debian clone, if you turn around and try to change sources.list , then update it. Youll break a number of things. This happens similiarly with Xandros, but most of Xandros's own repositories arent bad.
3. It costs money. If im going to buy a distribution, Im going to buy an industry level solution (Suse and/or NLD). Robertson has a good idea, but not enough umph behind it.
my
"God of Rock, thank you for this chance to kick ass. "
How to make money off something others give away for free?
There is almost nothing worth the buy compared to another "desktop-oriented" distro. Slick look? You can have thousands of "looks" for your KDE or Gnome desktop for free. From the screenshots, Linspire obviously uses KDE. They could have at least developed a new desktop environment if they wanted to sell something "different". As for security and overall "up-to-date-ness", I'm pretty sure you're well better off with one of the major distros out there.
And last but not least, the very fact that they strive hard to get people to like them because they are trying to be close to Windows enough to interest them is a failure, in my opinion, right from the start. People who like Windows, well, they just want the real thing. Everyone knows, let's not deny it, that even the ones who can't afford Windows but like it - they will use pirated copies instead of using Linux or another OS.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against selling service around a Linux distro - but Linspire? Seems like you don't get much aside from marketing. Which is better for them than it is for you.
Unless the end-user (or average joe) has friends that know what Linux is, theres some good chances that they have no clue that something other than Windows exists.
That being said, regardless of how "bad" Linspire seems compared to other open distros, it's these kind of products that people see and hear about because they'll market it if they want to have "some" success.
Linux will never grow if it's never heard of outside the net.
Linspire is in my opinion a closed-world project that we must fight
Ask me again why Linux has remained stagnant for the past four years.
I moddes it Flaimbait the first time and got meta-modded Unfair. Life is not always fair..
but why not?
Stagnant? Linux has gained the ability to market itself as a desktop OS in the past four years. Enough said.
Oh crap, you were trolling and I took the bait...
that's just lovely
- put 2 links to ostg partners in blurb
- get submission accepted because of free adspace for patners
- end up slashdotting the site, so far for the free ads then, and i have no clue what other distro's you meant (suse, novell or redhat id guess)
Artists against online scams http://www.aa419.org/
I'm using Mandrakelinux 10.1 Official as my desktop OS, with a scanner, a printer, a Nikon D-70, a webcam, WiFi and so on. I'm burning DVD with music and DivX films (shame on me), I'm using Firefox, OpenOffice.org... and everything really works great.
I'm not using Windows anymore and these improvements have been performed during the past four years.
The entire idea of Linspire is flawed. You combine the worst aspects of Linux with the worst aspects of Windows. If people just keep on trying to copy Microsoft products and only see compatability as their main goal then nothing revolutionary is going to happen. Look at Linux. Most of Linux development recently has been trying to challenge M$ and get a simmilar look and feel. I am sorry but you are dooming yourself if your primary goal is to play catch up.
Since I never intended to offend anyone, I feel vindicated :-)
Or do you mean that you modded the fanboy-list as Flamebait?
7/8ths or something of all the distros out there are now debian clones it appears on a casual glance at distro watch. The bummer is, it's tedious as all get out to try them all out if you are stuck on dialup and your burner has a mind of it's own and only works hit or miss. That leaves sending away mailorder for CDs, which gets old after awhile. Every time I try a new one, something else is broken it appears, given that I am referring to this "me" guy and "me's" personal machine, not any generic other posters experience. Example, I have a semi recent knoppix, ubuntu and mepis. Knoppix and Mepis dialout and actually give me an internet connect, which is my personal "killer app" and deal breaker, because I primarily use a computer for web surfing and listening to net stream radio, and that's about it. Ubuntu just sat there, and after hitting several evenings in a row trying to find out how to fix it and getting nowhere fast, that was it, that deal was broken. All three are debian based though, so one has to wonder.... but for joe schmoo next door,another random example, he runs wireless in his house and is interested in primarily SOHO business type things to do with a computer, maybe, so for him that stuff better be on the distro and work adequately or it's a deal breaker for him. And so on and so forth. And how many people as a percentage of the computer using population are going to go down the list of HUNDREDS of various distros to see which one works the best? Really? Safe to say some number less than 1%. So what do you do then, read a review? Reviews are BROKEN. Let's just admit reality, reviews cannot adequately address the issues faced by most people, because performance is so very random and hit or miss. Nature of the beast and all.
And people have a habit of jumping back in forth on posting reviews from speaking in general terms to speaking in personal experience terms,completely mixing them up in implied appearance, because it's extremely hard to do both. See, I just had to do it myself up above. You can't do it otherwise, it's impossible. For some people,joe reviewer or commentator, distro x works well,or so claim subset x fanclub, but the same exact distro installed on someone elses machine will work radically different from hardware issues and might have several broken apps,so then distro Y fanclub chimes in with "neener neener you lame luser, use our stuff and..." really, after years of reading this sort of thing it has gotten beyond silly..
In that sense, OS reviews on the internet in general are broken themselves, the entire "review" concept is flawed,there is no patch available to fix it, they can't really be reviewed adequately consistently or even fairly, the variables are just too huge.
This is why Mac has always been more consistent than not (obvious hardware/software integration at vendor/developer level), Windows is closer but always still hit or miss, and Linux is even further into hit or miss. I think it's safe to say that is a valid postulate. That's been my experience so far anyway and from everything I have read over the years. For real the only consistent way is for the OS, whichever one it is, is to come pre installed on hardware that the vendors tweak for the user in advance, at least to a point of near perfect useability within currently available software and hardware design constraints, then also applying the IP laws to it. It's a rough row to hoe otherwise.
With that said, I read the list of improvements that this company offers and it seems most decent enough, and you have to admit there's not a lot of ways around those propietary apps and licensing short of paying the money or not including them if you want to distribute in the US officially as a company. They have taken the only rational way for them to take on this issue. It seems like they are doing the best they can, ease of use/features/price. What else could a company do?
I think it would be better as reviews go to do the "OS review" thing based on one of the vendo
See for yourself...
Maybe it's just me, but I didn't think it was possible to run MMC applications under Linux... and the fact that the WINDOWS LOGO is in the Start button kinda gives me the feeling that this is Windows. The Linspire folks wouldn't dare use that logo in an official release...
Also, notice:
Why would you put a Windows screenshot in a story about Linspire 5-0's first look? That's pretty deceptive.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
I have not found any place to download lsongs, or lphoto.
Apparently you can buy them for $20 though.
I couldn't find a download either. and apperently you can buy them for 20 dollars, but they *only* work with linspire. If I'm incorrect, please someone let me know, the only thing keeping my fiance on windows is her Mp3 player, if it would worth with linux she'd make the switch immediately!
If something I said can be interpreted two ways, and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, I meant the other one.
thanks for reading and replying. I hope some of the "me too" distro makers decide to bite the ego bullet and decide to combine forces and produce a single unified "linux" that is slower to release but a lot more of this "rock solid" and functional, and then take strength of product and strength of lobbying pressure and get the vendors to carry it and they will in turn get the governments to stop being dorks about things. that's how the world works.
There's too many new and shiny wheels being invented that are trying to masquerade as the entire car, if that makes any sense.
Even if some of the already established major linux vendors would combine forces it might help. I can't put my finger on it exactly but I think this is a critical juncture for "linux" and if it doesn't start to standardize soon with "the community" and get it's act together that it will be relegated to a small handful of big hardware vendors who will do it for them, and they will then step back and wonder where that ten ton truck came from and why did they get run over by it. And by this I mean the "more weird IP laws and even wierder hardware laws", because if you stand up and put your nose to the wind you can smell it coming now, and it's stench is foul.
Actually, if people would do their research before posting, you would find out that Linspire has done a lot for OSS. They have contributed to wine,kde,mozilla,kde-look.org,reiser just to name a few actually (5). As for as Lsongs and Lphoto, they are written in python so you can get it to work on any distro with python installed.
LSongs Source
LSongs Tarball
LPhoto Source
LPhoto Tarball
If Joe Advanced User formats his main system hard drive now and then, I'd have to say he's not that advanced. He may know the commands, but if he's always formatting his hard drive, he's going to have to reinstall Windows. The more advanced user would know how to maintain his system enough so he doesn't have to format/reinstall every now and then.
Having a smoking section in a public restaurant is like having a peeing section in a public swimming pool.
Yes, that is what I meant.
but why not?