Slashdot Mirror
Chinese Force Mass Closure Of Net Cafes
Chien Andalusia writes "According to this article from the BBC, the Chinese authorities closed 12,575 net cafes towards the end of 2004. Due to the expense of computer hardware, net cafés have become very popular in China in recent years. The laws governing such cafés are very strict, especially in relation to minimising the amount of exposure children can get to the internet. For example, no net café is allowed to open within 200 metres of a middle or elementary school. The article also briefly discusses other restrictions imposed on Chinese net cafés."
Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.
Probably what the Chinese gov't had to say, too...
Serve alcohol at the Inertnet cafe and the problem is solved. No controversy either
My Linux - (L)ove (I)s (N)ever (U)tterly eXPensive
I suppose it's only a matter of time til the chinese government learns what most people already know. If more than a few people know a piece of information, then it's pretty hopeless to try to contain it.
Now if only the RIAA/MPAA would learn this lesson.
Because it's important that we limit, as much as is possible, our children's exposure to information, education, technology, or anything else that might shape them into better, more productive members of society.
China: The Biggest Red State.
By expanding "free trade agreements" and raising the H1-B quota !!!
That's what happens when you put up a national firewall that lets port 25 thorugh.
Someone had to do it.
Chinese government restrictive, controlling bastards. But given the Great Leap Forwards, assorted purges on intellectuals, the show trials, the widespread censorship, the repression of Tibet and the Tiananmen Square Massacre, did we not know this already?
So, why is this news?
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
If we don't like our government, we can vote them out. If Chinese don't like their goverment, they go to jail.
There is a big difference.
I really doubt that a lot of that spam is being relayed through internet cafes. China only cares about stopping people from looking at new ideas, they hate stopping anything that makes money.
Monstar L
In other news, the Chinese goverment are a bunch of commie bastards, SCO are liars, and Microsoft has a monopoly on the desktop market. Seriously though, this kind of reporting is good. People tend to forget about this kind of stuff unless they're frequently reminded.
It does because china isn't immune to war crimes...nor do they threaten 3rd world countries to remove aid if they don't vote to keep americans immunity
China, for all the hype about markets opening up their society, is still a totalitarian communist country. I'm not surprised that they've cracked down on the cafes; I'm surprised they exist at all.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
During history big emprires have allways done what they think is best for themselves. The voice of the people and definitely other countries have no bearing on those, thus I do not see anything special from historical perspective with the american empire.
You'll be eating your words and drinking George Dubbas H2Oil in 15-20 years when china becomes a super power to rival that of former russia
We will impose our elitist totolitarian regime on you because of the Children! Won't you think of the children? (Thud) How about now? (Whap) Now? Good!
~D
This sig has been enciphered with a one-time pad. It could say almost anything.
Its just a shame that no other countries news channel have such far reaching audiences as the yanks. the only one to come close is the bbc, but they are fairly neutral, and don't contest what the murdoch/turner stations broadcast.
We all hate what the Chinese government are doing to their population, but all you admins out there, think about it. Their censorship technology is the best in the world, and it would improve production if it was implemented in USA companies. How would it improve production you ask? It will, for example, keep people from reading Slashdot all day.
In most countries of the world the local news channels have much more power than any international channel. if for no other reason, then for language issues.
At least the ban for inet cafe close to elementary school. In Argentina we have a similar situation, there are a lot of inet cafes because hardware is very expensive since peso devaluation and Internet conection is also expensive. Most inet cafes are used to chat using MSN and IRC and playing FPSMPG (like Counter Strike), so boys hang around for hours there instead of studying. It is very cheap, because there are a lot of inet cafes, it cost about 0.35$/hour, that is cheap even for us. Boys mostly plays and some MSN, and girls go just to chat via MSN.
I am giving a basic computer course in an elementary school (9 to 12 years old) and they are asking me to teach them just to chat, even before learning how to type!
DNA in your Linux: DNALinux
I was in Beijing last summer, and the one thing that struck me was how our American media promotes an image of an evil tyranny in China. (While it is true that most freedoms - as we know them here - don't exist, it isn't the spawn of evil its made out to be.)
;)
I had no problems accessing the Net from my hotel - albeit an intl. dialup connection - and even visited a few Net cafes. Most people I spoke to said the Internet was great but that we Americans don't realize that what we may want or consider a "great freedom" here in the US is not considered as important in the rest of the world. (Alright before you start going berserk and start spewing off about basic human rights, consider that we have made many, many mistakes in the past and it took us time as well to reach a state where we consider these freedoms as our rights; give 'em time!)
Anyway, my point being, Internet was completely accessible except for a few sites that seemed to be proxied out at the Net cafes - Slashdot being one of them!
This has nothing to do with "Freedom of speech", or should I say, the intention of it is to prevent kids from spending too much of their spare time on those cafes playing game. If anyone has been to such cafe in China would know there are almost NO adults in these cafe except young kids. And as a matter of fact, they are playing games instead of "Freedom of speech".
If there would be "speech" during the course, its just someone looking for ONS, instead of the "POLITICAL FREEDOM OF SPEECH". Most adult will use their own computers at home instead of the dirty, ugly public "internet cafe".
This action helps to keep the kids a little bit away the computers and do some real physical pratices.
Secondly, this also helps to crack down the pirate softwares across those so called "internet cafe".
Just to clarify, in term of internet connection, there is no difference from home or from "internet cafe". They all go to the same gateway which prevents anyone from accessing "unauthorised contents".
BTW, 99% of the "Internet cafe" in China has no cafe!
Your workforce is not cattle. Don't treat them as such ( note: I'm not happy with how we treat cattle either ). I give my employees their taskes, they finish them to the best of their ability. I don't care how, as long as it's done by the deadline, everyone is happy. They can fuck around on slashdot for the entire week, as long as that report is on my desk by friday 5pm, they are gold.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Wow, the people in power don't like something and want to see it censored or banned.
So, to try and convince the public, they announce that the thing that THEY don't like is dangerous for children...
THEN, once you've established that it is bad for children, you can get rid of it altogether in the name of protecting children!
I'm glad that would never happen here!
For example, no net café is allowed to open within 200 metres of a middle or elementary school.
That's kinda like in Indiana how there is a law that says you can't sell alcohol within 150 feet of a church.
I worked at a grocery store once that couldn't sell it because of that silly law.
Its a good thing those cafes are 200m away. This is sure to be too far a walk for the chinese computer CHUDs the internet will surely spawn:)
Because we love freedom!
You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
We think it's so easy to change a culture just by handing them the tools to do it. Sure, something will happen, and it might even be roughly what we expect, but I submit that the majority of people here sitting at their computers cheerful advocating the overturning of an entire governmental system and associated culture have . . . really no clue what they're dealing with.
I truly believe that education is the silver bullet, that information and communication are what will lift the human race to heights undreamed of. I just think there's something a little deserving of pause about saying "culture of compliance, family, and subservience? Pssh, here, let's give them SSH and proxies and do our best to overturn all controls and make their internet develop like ours, and with a mouse-click, throw down a government we think isn't handling stuff right. It's not that we shouldn't change things we feel are wrong, it's that we should be aware we're dealing with a whole different culture than what most of us are used to, and that culture isn't necessarially just going to morph into the 'standard' one if handed the tools.
I'm not an expert on China; I don't even have a strong opinion on what anyone should do about this kind of thing. I just think it's good to pause now and then and think about what we're doing.
xkcd.com - a webcomic of mathematics, love, and language.
China: The Biggest Red State
If China ever was truly communist (which I doubt), it sure as hell ain't now.
As someone said, when they embraced capitalism, China went from being one of the last major left-wing dictatorships to being one of the last major right-wing dictatorships.
Which doesn't necessarily make them any more free.
It's all bullcrap anyway; the supposedly left-wing North Korea is run in a pseudo-monarchistic manner by Kim Jong-Il, who took over from his father. This is about as un-left wing as you can get; not that it makes any difference. Whatever their *claimed* alleigance, dictatorships are dictatorships are dictatorships, run for the benefit of the ruling party; in that sense, they are *all* right-wing, but not in a remotely "freedom-loving" way.
The more I think about this, the more the left/right wing labels seem like a joke; they only really have relevance when it comes to free societies.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
The main causes given for the closures is locating a Cybercafé right next to a school and allowing minors free access to pornography. What chance do you think a Cybercafé would have to continue trading in the EU, US etc. if it was found to be a magnet for truants and/or providing unfettered access to pornography to minors? They also restrict violent games to certain age groups, which is different to the age requirements we have on our computer game boxes, how exactly? Doom 3 is rated "18" in the UK for example, and companies can be prosecuted for breaking that restriction and selling the game to a minor. The same goes for logging all outbound access - you'd be insane not to log everything if you were running a Cybercafé in the event someone launched a cracking attempt from your premises.
OK, I do have concerns that these logs are going to be "auditted" by the Chinese government for what they might see as subversive elements, disloyal behaviour or whatever. The censorship of free access to information, even if it *is* pornography, should not be blocked - immoral and illegal should not automatically be the same thing. Still, at least the Chinese appear to understand that restricting Internet content is an internal matter and are making an effort to deal with it themselves instead of trying to ram their legislation down the throats of other nations. Now if only they would let their people have a larger say in what was and was not permitted...
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
Wish I worked for an employer like you. I'm getting grief about coming in at 11am. The fact that I a) work about 20 hours per week longer than most and b) actually achieve things (unlike a large minority) seems to be completely beside the point.
...
If your butt's not warming the seat at 7.30am then you've "got a bad attitude". One of the guys on my team has had several "attitude reassignment meetings" I'm still waiting for my first... any day now
Becuase of the difference in cultural, you American sometimes cannot understand Chinese people. Something we think normal you think crazy. The reason to restrict build net cafe 200m away from school is that too many kids go to net cafes after school and spend too much time on computer games or internet surfing. Many parents complain about this. Another reason for closure is the porngraphy information. Viewing and keeping these pictures on pulic machines is prohibited in China. This is the same in pulic libraries in US.
You seriously have no idea what you are talking about.
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
Its their country, their rules..
...
Let's take that idea to a logical conclusion:
Sudan...it iss their country, their rules.
Serbia...it is their country, their rules.
We can go back in history and include Cambodia, Nazi Germany,
I guess hatred of America is so strong these days that the Slashbots feel compelled to defend every other government, even some of the most despotic and totalitarian.
A lot of these net cafe are poorly constructed without proper safety facilities. A fire swept through an illegal net bar killing 24 and sending another 13 to hospital in 2002.
http://www.edu.cn/20020618/3059163.shtml
Not many businesses in China respect the safety standards that the western world take for granted. There are many ways, including bridery, to get around the safety inspections. So occasionally the government has to do some massive crack down. For one, to try to control the internet to please the critics in the communist party. Also, nobody would bride the safety inspectors if the government does not show that they are serious about the safety standards. A few weeks later these net cafe would be re-opened. And everything goes back to business as usual.
Content censoring is always there. But that's not the only reason they close down these net cafe. Money is the reason.
A sig is redundant.
China-philes...
The word actually is Sinophiles
Well, if you know that almost 100% computers in these cafes are pirated software and teens are doing nothing all day but visiting porn sites and play games, you know China government is doing the right thing.
Don't prototype, not every move is political motivated.
Spam, porn, viruses, marketing, etc. And I can assure you that few children will go searching for MIT OpenCourseWare philosophy notes, Confician ethics, Maoist doctrine, etc. on their own. They will look for their favorite new music artists, information on the latest cartoon series, get on IM with their friends, or will just sit there and play flash games for the whole time.
Have you been in a high school computer lab? All kids do on the Internet is waste time and expose themselves to information that they are generally not morally equipped to interpret. When they need to do research for a school assignment, they will probably find that the restrictions will allow them to get the info they need fairly conveniently. So perhaps the totalitarian government is doing the children a service by keeping them focused.
On the other hand, I do not agree with the restrictions on adult consumption of the Internet. Clearly, at that point the government is perpetuating ignorence.
Also notice how loose the copyright philosophies are in China. IIRC piracy is allowed, even encouraged in there. We have the RIAA, the MPAA, the DMCA, and media corporations with the nearly full backing of the U.S. government. Perhaps one should consider whether the lawsuits going around would count as oppression/repression to a communist.
Right, because we know *everyone* who gets a record contract gets rich beyond their wildest dreams. *rolls eyes*
Their censorship technology is the best in the world, and it would improve production if it was implemented in USA companies. How would it improve production you ask? It will, for example, keep people from reading Slashdot all day.
There is a psychological phenomenon in humans that control-freaks consistenly forget. Anything that you deny to a human appears more desirable to that human. If you say, "You can't do that," then the person being addressed will tend to want to do it *more*, not *less*.
For example, two children are playing. They may be playing in an ocean of toys, but the most attactive toy in the room to Child A will be the toy that Child B is playing with.
For example, the USA has some of the most repressive laws against drug use in the world, yet the USA is also the world's largest consumer of these "forbidden" drugs.
Also consider that "rooting for the underdog" and "fighting against the man" is seen as cool and hip in American culture. The "rebel" and "outlaw" are seen as positive, not negative, figures in American culture. Didn't all us Americans feel some righteous indignation when the Imperial officer seethes, "You rebel scum!" to Han Solo?
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
In communist China you have to ask permission for your basic rights... (and have them refused of course...)
In capitalist US you have to pay for your rights... (again and again and again...)
Yam, yam, uga booga, yam, yam, yade, yade, uga booga, yam, yam, yade, yade
Now I can see why some might argue that you can't have internet access within 150 feet of where children congregate (I'm not saying it's logic, but I can see where the argument comes from).
But for some reason, I keep thinking there is a more insidious reason for this rule. The internet, by and large, is the ultimate expression of free speech and thought. It's the best place to get info of different ways of thinking. You wouldn't want to expose the mass populous to alternate ways of thinking until you've made sure that you've properly indoctrinated them.
Right, and what I'm saying, is that once the info's out there, and as long as it's got a important enough value to the people, it's likely to get to them one way or another.
I used to believe that.
Now I no longer do.
There is all kinds of information on the Bush administration that people, including those that served in his first administration, were desperate to get out to the American public, including specifics on his incompetence with respect to guarding against terror, the war on terror, the misinformation on Iraq, etc.
Yet we reelected him, and over half the people in the country believe Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks, despite proof to the contrary that hasn't only been bandied about on the internet, but has been reported in "mainstream" media news outlets as well.
The information may get out, but misinformation from "official" sources is clearly more potent in the perceptions of the mindless masses. The evidence of that is nowhere as clear (or discouraging) as here in America.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
China cannot embrace a completely 'open' western style of democracy as trumpeted by the United States, it's an impossibility with their current population numbers and the land predicament that they're in.
China has around 70% the arable land that the United States does yet it has around 4 times the population (give or take). With numbers of people like that and the sheer logistics of feeding them all, a more heavy handed form of 'population control' is needed above and beyond lightly recommending how people do things. This is why you've seen policies such as the 1 child rule and a general aversion to completely opening up internet access to the public. Some would say that this keeps them in a state of ignorance, but honestly we as Americans have absolutely no idea what it would be like to have that many Americans running around.
Imagine this country with say.. 2.4 billion people walking around. It'd be a nightmare and if you think that the government of the US, if faced with the task of controlling and moving society along with that many people around, wouldn't impelement hard core big brother control, you have another thing coming. Free is a great idea when you have sea to shining sea and amber waves of grain, things get a bit hairer when famines could potentially kill HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS people and cause unrest on a scale never seen before by man if the dinner plate isn't filled. Also keep in mind that people are generally stupid and impulsive when they get into large groups (regardless of beliefs). This fact about human behavior has the potential to produce some pretty disasterous results.
People like to point out that India is the world's largest democracy. What they fail to mention is that India also has one of the longest lived and highly adhered to caste structures ingrained into the very fabric of their society. So yeah, they're democratic but at the same time everyone is 'assigned' a place that they cannot move from, so you're back to rigid control of thoughts and ideas in one form or another. The benefit that India has is that their generally effective use of education still bolsters innovation.
China does what it has to do to get the job done. No more, no less. I don't like the fact that they're communist. I don't like that fact that they censor and propogandize everything, but looking at it objectively, I can understand the effectiveness of the method.
How do they manage to escape the scrutiny of the same freedom-minded people, who can not talk about Bush without foam forming on their mouthes?
You argument is flawed and simplistic (yet you get +4 insightful...) : disliking Bush has *nothing* to do with admiring China's leaders. I dislike both.
And childish/nonsensical terms such as "Evil" bring nothing to the table.
After all I consider Bush evil, but I guess you would disagree.
The quickest way to become an atheist is to study the Bible thoroughly.
I am from Ukraine, and in November, when it was Orange Revolution here in Ukraine, I've read various people comments on bbc.com on that topic (our revolution). While most comments were positive, I remember one comment from china's women; she was very negative and said that people should better care about other things as food, money and such.
May be for china people it's acceptable that your goverment are gangsters and thiefs as long as they give you enouth food. For me, it isn't.
PS. Sorry for my bad English.
I was in China not too long ago (2003 - beginning of 2004) and teaching English. One thing that was interesting was the stuff that I heard about Falun Gong. How supposedly people from Falun Gong had poisoned local beggars, it was a cult.
In the states, you never hear these rationales for the crackdowns against Falun Gong. They're not even brough up to be discredited, which makes me wonder if they're true or not?
More to the point, is the American gov't not explaining China's good reasons for cracking down on Falun Gong so that it keeps their citizens feeling superior to the Chineese? "Oh, we have religious freedom and they don't" etc. When the worst abuses against religion happened during the Cultural revolution, or currently against those religious groups with separatist ambitions (or who just don't want their land exploited by the influx of the ethnic Han majority) such as some Muslims in Xinjiang, Buddists in Tibet, etc.
A while ago, there was the whole issue of the Chinese embassy bombing in Belgrade by accident.
The Chinese line was that it was deliberate and pointless. The American line was that it was an accident. The London guardian at one point ran a piece on how the Chinese embassy had been quite likely rebroadcasting radio signals from Serb forces in violation of the laws governing embassies (neutrality) and how the bombing run that hit the embassy was the only one which didn't go through the NATO chain of command, but came directly from the CIA.
And how much did we in the states hear about this second, more likely explanation?
There were a few internet sites blocked in China. And it was hard to tell which ones were deliberate and which ones were accidental since there seemed to be very little set policy on the matter. China may censor, but it seems to lack the rigid efficiency and formality that one imagines when they think of the USSR or Nazi Germany. The place is anarchy and clannish with an authoritarian frosting. Things like the status and power of your family, and which powerful people you have pissed off and how respectfully you criticize power have a huge amount to do with what you can get away with.
The cultural revolution is over. The boys in power in China are mainly concerned with protecting their power and sometimes increasing it.
And despite the attempt at censorship, there was a lot of information about government corruption which managed to leak out anyways. (Chinese gov't billionaires, Political elite getting away with murder, etc. )
If there's one thing I learned in China, it was how deftly the US government manages to control the information which reaches the majority of its citizens, despite the existance of a 'free press.'
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
" Indeed; Communism is thoroughly dead in China."
Some aspects of it are.
"The current ruling gang apparently doesn't even give it lip service any more."
They give it A LOT of lip service. It's still in all of the major speeches during national holidays.
"Thus, Communism died in the old USSR when Stalin took power and became in all but name a new tsar."
That's news to Nikita Kruschev, who was essentially replaced by commitee. No one even knew who the "one guy" in charge was for a couple of years after his removal. Eventually, it was discovered that the Central Commitee picked Leonid Breznhev as the General Secretary. The party regained control after the death of Stalin, and stayed in control until Gorbachev. The attempted coup was BY the major powers of the party. So please don't pretend that communism never existed after Stalin. For all of the evil of that system, the party did pick leadership in an orderly fashion after that.
"...the old Communist/Capitalist false dichotomy."
If you REALLY think there's no difference between capitalism and Soviet style communism, then no rational words are going to sway you.
"...not by describing them with foreign words that don't apply very well."
When they stop calling themselves communists, then maybe we will too. Again, the Chinese leadership still embraces the Marxist/Maoist imagery and speech, voluntarily. No one from the West forced it on them, so please stop acting like we are doing just that. THEY (the governement) identify themselves as communist.
BTW, there ARE still true believers in power in China, many in the military. They don't like the trappings of a market economy, but they do like the money it brings in to pay for planes, tanks, missles, ships, and now, the space program.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
I just returned from the supposedly closed China, and have much to say that contradicts the article. Most of the article plays on the ignorance of Westerners.
The internet cafes were cheap (around $1 for 4-8 hours) and usually a bit dirty. I was blocked from no site except the San Jose Mercury News, and the site was back online in China the next time I checked. It was not the "Great Fire Wall of China" in action. There have got to be more than 100,000 internet cafes. They're on many, many street corners. Some are built with sleeping quarters attached. Maybe there are 100,000 registered internet cafes, but who really registers anything in China?
I am sure many who live in English speaking countries read these things imagine laws might be followed and enfoced like they are in the UK and US. Strict laws require some enforcement. From what I saw and heard and contrary to what I read from the Chinese press, there was hardly a hint of control over the millions of teenagers online.
If Chinese people are kept in the dark, it seems only to be about their own country (about SARS, e.g.). They often know many details about the U.S., including sports scores, movies and news.
France is not the beacon of anyone. The left fails to hate France, simply refraining from jingoist sentiments spewed by neoconservatives. IF you wish to call that admiration, by all means do so, you are obviously a partisan ass to begin with.
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
Case in point. There are at least eight million people in New York City. Did most of them report to work? Did offices and stores close because everyone was going to be out protesting in the streets? No. You are making idiotic assumptions because thousands or tens of thousands of people expressed themselves democractically. That is still an insignificant fraction of the population, especially if you consider how many of those protestors were not from New York.
88% of the French (according to the latest poll) dislike our president.
Around half of the American population doesn't like him either. Perhaps this explains your "resentment" for "the Left"? You claim that your feelings are justified, after all.
Talking to a Left-leaning person, France will come up as one of the "successfull" alternative models of society.
Canada is quite similiar, i.e. a democracy with socialist leanings. But hey, Canada was not chosen as a target by the Right, so no complaint over their form of government or dislike of Bush. Just France, they who dared to stand in the way of American will.
Oh, and you must not have been in New York when the Chinese Premiere was in the Waldorf-Astoria for a few days. Probably did not see the massive protests on Park Avenue that ran day and night (I worked nearby, I saw it firsthand). He lived in luxury, meeting US officials for exquisite lunches. Our government drooled over the chance to rake in billions over increased trade with China.....but oh those evil French, looking to make money in a similar fashion! EVIL!
a much more evil (here we agree, I hope) Chinese leader.
If you are still paying attention, which leader in all of China's history would you consider good? Bet you can't come up with one, because you dont know a damn thing about the nature of their society. Prove me wrong, if you will.
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.