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Preparing for the Broadcast Flag?
Couch Potato asks: "I'm worried that, come next July, the FCC mandated broadcast flag will soon take away all sorts of fair use rights I have long enjoyed. Given that there are only a few months left to make purchasing decisions, how best can one prepare for the advent of the broadcast flag?"
"I'm somewhat aware of projects like Myth TV, but it's not all that I want. Specifically, I want to make sure that I can record DVDs or similar files of any program I want off of cable, sattelite or broadcast TV, flag or not and without any other encumbering restrictions (such as the Macrovision DRM for DVDs) and without worry that someday they'll change something so that my old drivers and hardware are suddenly obsolete and useless when faced with updates to the formats. Note that this makes closed-source-only drivers an issue, because assuming the hardware can still be adapted to whatever they change on us, open-sources drivers can be modified and closed-source ones probably won't be, whether for legal or practical considerations. So then, what can someone with a modest budget do to make sure that their constitutional fair use rights don't succumb to planned obsolecense, like the VCR has?"
While on the topic, does anyone know if I buy a HD tunner card now, before they become extinct in July, if it will even work after the flag is issued?
I am using an AMD 1700+ CPU with 1 GB memory, an nVidia GeForce FX 5700 128MB board. I only have 80+GB space on the system right now (enough for around 5 hrs recording time ) but I will probably upgrade it later this year.
I bought this card because it does not have the broadcast bit and since it was made before July it will not be encumbered with all those restrictions.
I do not, however, plan on abusing that flexibility by sharing my recordings and thus ripping off the content owners. It is the thieves that feel it is thier right to steal from people just because they can that have brought this onerrous situation upon us.
Can't you just by cards made offshore that will not honor the broadcast flag? If there is a market someone will build them.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
Just buy an ATI TV tuner card before its too late.
Move to Canada!
/ducks
.. buy from Canada? :)
link from Ars Technica
Unfortunately they're fighting it on a technicality - that Congress did not give the FCC explicit power to create the broadcast flag, and thusly they have no authority themselves to create it.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
like any other type of restrictive technology, 95% of the people won't care, the other 5% of us folks will find cheap and easy ways around it. Yeah it won't be legal, but the cops only care if you are selling them or distributing them in large quantities (on the internets).
Nothing different anti-CD copying measures, anti VHS copying measures, anti video-game copying measures, and so on.
Nothing new here, move along
The DC Circuit Court isn't so sure the FCC has the right to make that rule.
I have no idea what you can do to try to sway the judicial system, as it's only 2 of 3 so far.
I guess you could contribute to the folks trying to take the FCC to court over this.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
I found myself asking this same question, too. So I put the question to the makers of the EyeTV 500. This is their response:
"EyeTV 500 does not support the broadcast flag. Units bought before July 2005 will never support the broadcast flag. We will not update EyeTV 500 units bought before then to support the flag.
Thus, your EyeTV 500 will never support the broadcast flag. It will ignore flags, and not use DRM for any content. That means you'll have the maximum freedom possible with its recordings."
It's a little pricey, but it does the compression on the box. I don't have digital cable yet, but I may buy this come May/June just for the fuck of it since pre-July box prices will probably go up dramatically come July 2 (on the black market, of course, since the law bans all inter-state trade of these devices).
The IRS is the one organization that you don't want to fuck with. Remember, these are the guys who took down Al Capone.
My plans involve an underground bunker, stocked with old books and DVD's that will be stored in perfectly dark conditions to preserve them for as long as possible. Upon these DVD's are recordings of the great television shows and movies.
Upon the day of the broadcast flag, I will be taking my family into the bunker along with a supply of food, air, and other needs to last 100 years.
When my great-grandchildren emerge into the world after society collapses, all the old books (which were deemed illegal during the Copyright Stealing Prevention act of 2050) are burned and all eyeballs gouged out during the Copyright Memory Prevention Act of 2075, when humanity has children born without R/M/AA approved Eyeball Extractors coming to remove their ocular sockets to be installed with DCMA III approved cybereyes (which shut down if it appears the looker is attempitng to actually remember what they see to replay it in their mind later, which of course is a copyright violation), then my great-grandchildren will be able to use these books and DVD's as barter.
Hm - I wonder how much food they'll be able to buy with a copy of "Cryptonomicon". Maybe I should get another copy....
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
I was going to write a letter, but decided to watch last night's "Must See TV" for 8 hours instead. I just hope my brain is broadcast flag enabled so I can remember all this fine programming later!
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
As with all laws, the authority comes from elected officials. So i recommend that you purchase an elected official. You can probably get one cheaper than you think.
DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
Step 1: Understand that 99.9% of shows on TV are crap anyway.
Step 2: Cease to care whether or not you can legally record them.
Step 3: Cancel your cable/satellite service.
Step 4: Download the 2 or 3 shows you really enjoy watching.
0 1 - just my two bits
the OP is trying to stay within the law.
Your assesment is kinda wrong.
You've never experienced things like a state tax filing amnesty? librariers that have fine amnesty?
never heard of realtors trying to close deals before laws change so they can be grandfathered in and legal?
the Question is,
"HOW BEST CAN I PREPARE MYSELF FOR SOMETHING THAT IS LEGAL"
not, how can I circumvent the law.
the advice being sought is in fact, ON THE SIDE OF LAW and wholly valid, I'm glad to see the topic, I was thinking about snapping up some hardware myself.
As I understand it- and I'd LOVE to be courteously corrected, the law only applies to products moved across state lines (or into the country) so a product manufactured, marketed and sold in the same US state, is actually still a possibility.
(fabrication facilitys then needing to be built in each state of course)
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Sure, you can stock up on pre-broadcast flag HDTV cards, and you can do all sorts of other tricks, but to do what you talk of for long-term goals, you're gonna need to work from the inside of the "system". Like others have said, big companies can spend all they want on re-election campaigns, but they still get elected by those who vote.
What most people forget about American democracy is that it is designed to work well in facilitating peaceful revolutions- when people care and vote. The blame for the sorry state the American government is in lies with nobody save every last American citizen who is currently enfranchised (older than 18, etc.). And I write this as an American citizen.
I wish I could write clever and witty sigs.
Once the broadcast flag becomes standard, can't the FCC be sued for violating the Supreme Court order mandating fair use in the Sony Betamax case? It would seem to be a slam-dunk of this argument is used.
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
Problem being, too many americans are too busy watching their spoon-fed share of culture on TV to care what happens, as long as the crap keeps showing up on their bigscreen they're fat and happy.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
To excerpt from an article posted on BetaNews:
Two of the three federal appeals court judges from the District of Columbia scolded the Federal Communications Commission Tuesday over what they saw as an overstep of the agency's authority given by Congress. The reprimand came in response to the FCC's ruling on the "broadcast flag."
Inconceivable!
Obviously you're not from the US... when is the last time the public actually stood up for their rights? How about when people were able to come to an intelligent decision? I'd say it only happens every hundred years or so... hell - it even took a massive fight between two large groups of people to decide something as simple as the idea of equality between two separate groups of people. Good luck convincing soccer mom's that freedom of speech has a purpose. Why not take away their SUVs while we're at it?
I'm amazed at how many people think that simply not watching TV is any sort of solution.
Broadcast flags are utterly evil for two reasons.
First, they are contrary to our fair use rights to record programming via Universal v. Sony.
Second, they create perpetual copyrights. Under the current rules, broadcasters will even be able to stop recording of public domain programming. Why do broadcasters get greater rights than the creator?! That makes no sense. And what's so hard to understand about the phrase "for a limited time"?!
Merely sitting on the sidelines and ignoring the problem will NOT help! If and when broadcast flags succeed, similar systems will become even more commonplace.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Buy an HD tuner that doesn't respect the flag before 1 July 2005, or purchase any such preexisting device after 1 July 2005 (all non flag compliant devices can be resold after that date).
But it's not that simple, after all. Because the problem is TUNING the content you want to record, e.g., from a satellite provider or cable operator. And since more and more of the digital content is encrypted, and is only able to be tuned by devices sanctioned by the provider, and all such devices will respect the Broadcast Flag, the answer is to "What can I do to prepare for the Broadcast Flag?" is "Not much."
Unless, of course, you don't mind recording from an analog connection, such as composite video, S-video, or component video. But the FireWire ports that are, for example, also mandated on all HD/digital cable set top boxes after 1 July 2005 will be mostly encrypted. One might ask the question, if they're encrypted, then what the hell good are they? Indeed. But what can you do in the face of a cable provider whose call centers don't even know what FireWire is, or who argues that "technically" the FireWire ports are "functional" (as required by the FCC), even though their output is encrypted.
The real answer, of course, is that these ports will interact with OTHER 5C-compliant FireWire devices that also respect the Broadcast Flag. There's no way around it unless you go analog. And that INCLUDES all the nice things on the EFF's page. Sure, you can tune over-the-air HD channels and record them. And that's great. In some markets, that may account for a lot of content. But you won't be able to digitally record content that is flagged as Record Never that you're paying for from a cable or satellite operator, because you need THEIR EQUIPMENT to tune to those channels. (Or, something like a CableCard in - guess what - another device that respects the flag.)
All in all, we'll be able to do less with our current (i.e., digital) equipment than we could do with equivalent equipment (i.e., the VCR) 30 years ago. And most of the operators won't shoulder any of the blame. They'll just point the finger at laws or at the content providers. And then what is a customer to do? The only thing you really *can* do is write your elected officials, and provide feedback to the FCC. Or, not buy any flag compliant devices, which might ultimately prove to be a very hard thing to do.
In sum: anything you buy now won't guarantee you recording of ALL content you might legitimately have access to, unless you're ONLY concerned about OTA recording.
Writing letters accomplishes nothing, because they still get their re-election campaign money from (for example) Time-Warner or whomever. If they spend enough money to get re-elected, they get re-elected. Period.
There is no, repeat, NO hope of galvanizing a significant enough fraction of a Congressman's demographic to make a difference in an election when it comes to issues like intellectual property.
The only thing you can do is move out of the country or just continue to civilly disobey.
+++ATH0
Knowing a number of close friends that have worked in congressmen/senators' offices, I can tell you that writing/calling your congressmen will do.....NOTHING. They get ridiculous numbers of emails/calls a day (in addition to the normal spam and telemarketing no doubt), and just end up feeding it off on some intern who sends out cookie-cutter replies. No one in Washington or the state capitol wants to listen to you.
But then we had a kid. When your wife it stuck at home, it only takes a few weeks for her to realize that there is only so much going on on the net in a given day.
Now, we did get satellite, and with it a DVR package. Fast forwarding through commercials, and being able to stockpile shows for days when I'm sick at home have eliminated my 2 major complaints about the tube.
The stockpiling is important. Most of my favorite cable channels... ok who am I kidding... the only 2 channels I watch tend to run the interesting stuff in marathons, with a long dry season in between. While I only average a few hours of TV a week, having 8 episodes of Star Trek, and another 6 "Tales of the Gun" are really handy for being home with the flu.
And having 5 or 6 hours of "Sesame Street" and "Jay Jay the Jet Plane" canned and ready to play is a life saver when you have a toddler. It means you can play their favorite video without it drilling your mind to the point you can recite the dialog by heart.
And to be fair, she is evenly split between wanting TV, mom and dad time, and bringing a book over demanding we read it to her. If anything, she prefers the books.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
First, you need to know what the 19.3 megabit DTV "Transport Stream" looks like. The "Broadcast Flag" is a small collection of bits embedded in "Transport Stream." DTV equipment will be required to watch (or listen) for those bits and take the appropriate action.
But suppose you know where those bits are, and what they mean, too. Why couldn't you simply flip the ones you don't like and then record or whatever? All you would need is a serial to parallel converter to turn the serial stream into a 16 bit parallel bus (for example) and them suck those bits into a DSP, where you do a little bit bashing. Then run them into a parallel to serial conervter to reconstruct the transport stream as seen by your digital disk recorder? If you have a commercially made unit, it will be looking for the flag bits, so it will know what it can or cannot do, but your freshly set bits tell it that this program is OK to record and play as long as you like.
I think such a device is likely to appear as a small plastic box with 2 firewire ports and a wall-wart, selling for $20 in a year or two.
Remember Macrovision on VHS? Do you know how easy that was to defeat? All you had to do was to make your VCR run with fixed video gain instead of AGC all the time. A little hardware hacking was all that was needed. This shouldn't be much worse. But don't try bit bashing after the compressed video is expanded. The data rate there is likely to be upwards of a gigabit, and most folks don't know how to make PCBs to handle stuff going that fast. This is precisely why the DRM folks want the interconnects to be 1 gigabit or faster. But remember, the "broadcast flag" must be readable in the 19.3 megabit transport stream.
An analog gray hair frantically clinging to the trailing edge of technology.
You say the people are free to do what they want? The poster's issue is that in the U.S. that doesn't seem to hold true any longer. The poster did not vote to fuck himself over, regardless of what others voted for.
With that said, I agree with the rest of your point. The problem here is that majority rule does not work when the majority doesn't care. People need to wake up.
Intro to HD PVRs
Broadcast flag info and list of HDTV cards
And BTW, the Elgato eyetv 500 is the answer to your question.
I am concerned about any program, any piece of hardware, any treaty, any law that treats me as a consumer, not a citizen
...all of the Broadcast Flag plans were in motion up long before Bush became president, during Clinton's presidency. Clinton appointed Michael Powell to the FCC [when he became Chairman, he didn't get any more votes], Clinton signed the DMCA into law, and Fritz Hollings (D) (along with four other Democratic senators) is the sponsor of the CBDTPA (née SSSCA or "DMCA 2").
I'm not saying the parent is speaking to this specifically, but this is just a point of information for others who will no doubt ignorantly vomit out the opposite in this thread.
you mean like Silvio Berlusconi winning in Italy had nothing to do with him owning most TV stations?
A number of groups like the EFF, American Library Association, etc. are all challenging the broadcast flag in court. With a bit of luck it's implementation will be delayed or even stopped.
"when is the last time the public actually stood up for their rights?"
How would we know? The corporate media would never tell us even if it actually happened.
They will never stop until somebody makes the
The broadcast flag is designed to control content due to the success of TV shows on DVD sales. Also factor in the nice high resolution broadcast quality versions you could be saving/recording instead of buying on HD DVD... :) They just dont want you to record what you've already paid for. And yes sitting through commercials during a tv show is paying for a tv show. Afterall, they dont get advertising money for tv shows if they didnt have our ratings numbers. Hey according to the FCC, Them's is our airwaves! ;) HAHAHAHAHA. As if fucking over the entire public wasnt enough for the FCC, spitting that bullshit back in our faces should have resulted in riots ;)
:)
I think the real shame is that as a result of this broadcast flag, Hollywood will simply fuel an entire underground HD-TV show swaping network on the internet.
There will be 10x the amount of traded HD-TV shows being swapped online. There will be a huge demand for those who can provide recorded versions of your favorite tv show.
Dont these companies realize that the more they squeeze the people, the more willing the people are to fuck them back?
We're a country of rebelling bastards, its what we do best
So let the corperations continue to own and control our government. It's nothing new. We've already lost that war years ago.
Hollywood, say hello to the larger than ever, more elite than ever, more unstoppable than ever, and more right than ever... underground HD-TV show scene that you have created. Way to learn from the past, you fucking morons (hollywood).
pcHDTV 3000 from here
Air2PC from here or here
2. When you're ready, build a computer for MythTV. Use this guide, look here for HDTV tips, and ask questions on this mailing list. You can also search for answers on the mailing list archive.
3. You say that Myth isn't all you want. I think you're wrong. Here's what it can do:
It can record analog content from cable, satellite, and over-the-air broadcasts.
It can record digital content from over-the-air broadcasts, including HDTV.
It can record unencrypted digital content over firewire from some digital cable boxes.
Using free tools that come with MythTV, you can cut commercials and export any recording from MythTV to a number of different formats, including Divx, Xvid, VCD, SVCD, and DVD.
4. Here's what it can't do:
Myth can't record encrypted digital content from digital cable or digital satellite. Keep in mind that no PC-based solution can do this. The only possible ways to do record content from these sources in digital format are to use a black-box solution (usually) provided by the cable or satellite company or to put on your black hacker hat and crack the encryption. If you choose the former, odds are slim and none that you will be able to export the recordings.
I am concerned about any program, any piece of hardware, any treaty, any law that treats me as a consumer, not a citizen
The problem is that scumbags keep retroactively increasing the length of protection, and that is cheating
Why is it cheating? Because the people that BUY your IP do so at a set price with the assumption that after they wait x # of years the stuff they bought today will be theres to do with what they want. That is one of the decisions they made when they bought it.
Example: Lets say that in 1968 I purchased one of the original film reals of star trek, for say $5,000. I get to watch it myself, but I can't charge cash to others to see it... YET. For just myself, it would only be worth $4,500. But I know that in 20 years, it will be a rare commodity and I will be free to charge people to see the film. My $5,000 is an INVESTMENT.
now 10 years later, some scumbag lier has convinced congress to change it from 20 years to 50 years. I just lost my investment.
The real problem is HOW MUCH DO WE WANT TO PAY INVENTORS/CREATORS for their work.
And while they are certainly entilted to a fair price, we - as the PURCHASERS of that work are entitled to negotiate a fair price - and that price includes a limit on how long you hold the rights to it. May be it should be shorter, maybe it should be longer, but once our society sets a reasonable time limit and you "accept that condition" and create the IP, there is NO POSSIBLE, FAIR REASON to change it. That is just thievery by cheating, greedy scumbags. It is no better than if Ford suddenly decides to extend the 5 year rental agreement with an option to buy after 5 years to a 10 years rental agreement, after you already signed the papers.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
It's being heard in court today.
6 35 .html
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050221-4
JON
Writing letters accomplishes nothing, because they still get their re-election campaign money from (for example) Time-Warner or whomever. If they spend enough money to get re-elected, they get re-elected. Period.
It comes back to the fact that americans are apathetic towards politics. If spending more money gets you elected, that's a reflection on the mindless drone voting public who will choose one candidate over another because they saw him on TV more.
There is no, repeat, NO hope of galvanizing a significant enough fraction of a Congressman's demographic to make a difference in an election when it comes to issues like intellectual property.
Yes there is, just nobody has organized a large enough group of people nor been vocal enough to make them care. This isn't just a technology situation, you can also include small businesses who are either have to pay large amounts for single licenses, or who are "locked out" of innovating new products due to the cost of complying with the wishes of the FCC. Also teach average people about how to maximize the use of their technology fairly, then watch them scream as their rights too are taken away.
Alternatively, politics isn't necessarily about the majority, it's about who screams the loudest. The FCC bows down to a group not because it's the will of the majority of people, but because the group represents the majority of communications between the FCC and the people (90% of complaints come from 1 group).
D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
Or, sit on your ass and suck it up...
As a Libertarian, my vote never gets anyone elected, even in local elections. So I am used to that. I have a comfortable chair.
This country used to be known as a country of individualists and, yes, anarchists to an extent. 'Tis no longer true of course, but I stand by our proud tradition of thumbing our noses at our government, poking fun at our ratlike leaders and ignoring laws and any other rules that I don't agree with. This is what makes me an American.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Your numbers sound about right. But you are forgetting something...
100% of the people who pay for cable are the ones who pay for cable! This might sound odd, but let me explain. The broadcast flag does not HAVE to be enabled at the source. The broadcasters can turn it on and off. If HBO started using the broadcast flag, they might change their minds if 10% of the people both wrote letters AND canceled their service. Men, you can grab by the balls. Companies, you grab by the wallet. The problem is that consumers TOLERATE this stuff. If ABC doesn't let you TIVO, then don't watch. Networks live and die by Nielson ratings.
I dumped all cable and broadcast TV over a year ago. I get my movies from Blockbuster, and I get my news from news.yahoo.com. I am happy.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
What right do you have to claim it as "your" culture? Did you create it?
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Yeah, it's really awful that people can continue to benifit from thier creations for so long.
Wow, Walt Disney is still alive? What great news!
hell, if logic isn't enough for you the damn thing is enumerated in the constitution itself:
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
Those events were used to be called riots. Now they are called terrorism.
These days, it doesn't even matter if the issues are obscure or not; members of Congress don't get elected based on the issues at all. They get elected if they happen to live in a district that their party managed to gerrymander well enough to guarantee them a seat. The number of competitive congressional districts is just depressing. In most of the districts around here, only one party even bothers to run a candidate at all. Do you think my Democratic representative or the Republican in the next district over cares about what his constituents think, when he was elected with 99% of the vote? Especially when they can make the convincing argument in the primaries that replacing them with another member of the same party will just cut down on the amount of federal spending in the district because the new guy won't have seniority?
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
Most Disney movies are based on old legends, fairy tales, and historical events. Those are pieces of my culture as much as they are Disney's. Content producers have the constitutional right to a limited protection of their works, after which they are expected to revert to the public domain.
If you mistakenly believe otherwise, then I hope you demand that the publisher of your "collected works of William Shakespeare" track down his rightful, legal heir and fork over the appropriate royalties. Or that Disney pays Hans Christian Andersen's family for "The Little Mermaid". Or that Mel Gibson found someone to pay for the rights to Jesus's life story. Otherwise, you're a corporatist hypocrite who doesn't really understand the "intellectual property" rights you seem to be in love with.
Dang, writing that made me feel dirty. I'm a pretty staunch conservative, but this idea that recent works based on old public domain offerings have some natural right to be privatized for the rest of eternity is just plain bizarre.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
"The CTEA [Copyright Term Extension Act]extended the term of protection by 20 years for works copyrighted after January 1, 1923. Works copyrighted by individuals since 1978 got "life plus 70" rather than the existing "life plus 50". Works made by or for corporations (referred to as "works made for hire") got 95 years. Works copyrighted before 1978 were shielded for 95 years, regardless of how they were produced."
And thus, the reason why I cannot sell my bootleg Mickey shirts for another few decades. :)
--Teechur007
Obviously you don;t see the big pictue, allow me to explain why this quote came up.
The parent mentioned that (and I paraphrase) as long as the rest of the country sat around snd watched (because it had nothing to do with them...yet) nothing would change, this quote says much more than its obvious meaning, you do more to trivialize it by narrowing its application than I did by sharing it. Also do you think the DVD thing is the only thing this broadcast flag can handle? It can have applications, such as disabling the 'manual skip commercial' features of future tivo-like systems, how about a flag that won;t allow you to change the channel when a certain commercial comes on, (ok this might be exxageration, but it makes a point), also the phrase shows how thinking 'well this is only happening in the USA, so fuck the yanks', when in reality, it will proably be adopted (perhaps by financial force) by other countries as well.
The words of the phrase itself do not apply, but the meaning behind it applies very much so.
I detest when such great quotes are marginalized.
Someone asked me the difference between ignorance and apathy, I told them I don't know and I don't care.