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Dell Enters HDTV Market with Plasma Display

Posted by timothy on from the pushing-pixels dept.

ThinSkin writes "It was only a matter of time before PC giant Dell would jump headlong into the HDTV market. But what does a company built around making inexpensive PCs know about HDTVs? ExtremeTech has done a full review with benchmarks on Dell's offering, the Dell W4200HD 42" Plasma HDTV."

42 of 285 comments (clear)

  1. Oh no, the tuner scare again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    having the ATSC tuner built in is a big plus, since a standalone ATSC tuner will set you back another $200-300

    Blah! I have to say that the cost of a tuner is either in or out of the price. I mean that if a TV sells for $3000 with a tuner than I bet a bargain based TV will sell for $2700-$2800 without a tuner. The cost doesn't magically go away. Besides I like the tuner to be outside the TV so I can upgrade one component for a little money verses buying a whole new TV when (I-Z)DTV comes out or when I want new features that haven't been invented yet. Read tuner not tuna, so no dolphins were injured in the making of this post.

    1. Re:Oh no, the tuner scare again by mzwaterski · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Having a built in tuner is a feature added component. It doesn't lock you into using that tuner as long as the TV has the same inputs as the tunerless model (DVI, HDMI, Components, etc...) If you are going to have to buy external tuner 1 for the same price as the increase for the internal tuner you might as well reduce the number of cables/remotes and just get the included tuner.

      If your cable company provides a tuner for a cheap rental fee, that is when you may want to save the money on no internal tuna.

    2. Re:Oh no, the tuner scare again by Kevin+Stevens · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, I have experienced four different providers in the past year (time warner in upstate ny, cablevision on LI, comcast in NJ, and RCN in NJ) and to get cable HDTV, each service needed you to use one of their boxes which have the tuner built in. This is not to say that you can't get it over the air, but presumably if youre buying a high end tv, you are going to be getting digital cable. For the low end market I agree with including tuners, but on high end HDTV's 40" and over, I would rather save the space, weight, and price and have the speakers and tuners left out. Its just a completely different market.

  2. They do it well by erick99 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Dell is a smart company that runs a lean & mean R&D machine. They seemingly put a lot of thought into new product introduction as well as price point. These folks are going to be hellish successful for a long time. It doesn't really matter much what product they are putting out, they seem to do it well. Hate 'em or love 'em, you gotta admire them.

    They are particularly good about not reinventing the wheel, rather, working with other vendors or manufacturers who have already figured it out (so to speak) and then putting the Dell spin on it if needed. Once again, a pretty cool business process from my point of view.

    As an aside, I don't work for Dell and I don't buy their products (I like Sony Vaio's and HP printers for some reason) but I do admire their business acumen and their business models. (I do, however, have extreme HDTV Plasma Display envy).

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
    1. Re:They do it well by Mantorp · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Dell is a smart company that runs a lean & mean R&D machine

      If that means "Dell doesn't really invent anything they just take already good ideas and commoditize them", then I agree.

    2. Re:They do it well by Mordaximus · · Score: 2, Informative
      Dell is a smart company that runs a lean & mean R&D machine.

      Unless you consider that many other companies are getting right out of plasma production. At any rate neither of their displays are HDTV devices. They lack the resolution to even display 720p at 16:9. Suprised no one sues for false advertising.

    3. Re:They do it well by CodeBuster · · Score: 2, Informative

      That is not necessarily true. The pieces that Dell brings to the table are, as you mention, comparative advantages in their supply chain, superior marketing and brand awareness, and a hyper efficient delivery and distribution system. One company does the R&D and licenses the design/specifications, another company does the actual fabrication/manufacturing, and the third company, Dell in this case, does the marketing, branding, and distribution. Each of these companies is specialized in their particular area of expertise delivering maximum efficiency through comparative advantages wrought by their specialization. The end result is generally reasonable quality products delivered to consumers at reasonable prices. In previous decades large, vertically integrated firms controlled all aspects of design, manufacturing, distribution, marketing, and branding and the result was a few large firms delivering products of comparative quality but at much higher prices than consumers pay today in inflation adjusted dollars. The good news is that there many levels of markets from mass to niche and everything in between which serve all types of customer from custom projects to mass produced goods and services. Dell is just another link in the chain.

  3. 24" 1920x1200/12msec LCD is pretty interesting too by xmas2003 · · Score: 4, Informative
    While the W4200HD is pretty cool but a bit pricy (nutshell summary of the article), a perhaps more interesting display coming from Dell is the 24" LCD offering 1920x1200 resolution and 12-16 msec response time - also reviewed by Extreme Tech with a sticker price of $1,199 ... although I have not see it for sale yet on Dell's websitee. This is going to put a lot of pressure on the large LCD makers, and with the occasional 25% off deal from Dell, could drop below $1,000.

    My christmas lights and BBQ Grill would look HULK'ing on that monitor! ;-)

    --
    Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
  4. One page version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.extremetech.com/print_article2/0,2533,a =146388,00.asp Far easier to read, IMHO.

  5. Please mod me down right now! by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "But what does a company built around making inexpensive PCs know about HDTVs?"

    Who cares? Do you honestly think manufacturers build their own parts? Evderybody is selling something to someone else. A SONY DVD player with Panasonic chips and a Matsushita mechanism with a taiwanese PCB designed with Japanese software... Sold in Europe to play American movies.

    Dell will probably re-brand someone else's design, or outsource the design. Remember the Casio products re-branded as Tandy in the 80s? Same idea.

    --
    Mostly random stuff.
    1. Re:Please mod me down right now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "But what does a company built around making inexpensive PCs know about HDTVs?"

      Not much, I'd wager...since said company doesn't know much about making inexpensive PCs to start with (see above post).

      What Dell does know a lot about is marketing inexpensive PCs...and I'll bet that knowledge can be made to apply to the HDTV market fairly easily.

  6. Dell probably hasn't much to do with it by kalpol · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Dell is really good at taking people's money and selling them someone else's product with their name on it (which is not a bad thing if the product is good-quality and well-supported). I doubt that they ever really own their inventory - they just transfer it from one place to another.

    --
    12:50 - press return.
  7. Dell by NerdConspiracy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    what does a company built around making inexpensive PCs know about HDTVs

    Do they really need to know much about HDTV? It's probably like with PCs, buy cheap components in large volumes, assemble them together. Sell online at a discount. Works with pretty much anything.

  8. Not everyone... by Avyakata · · Score: 2, Informative

    "But what does a company built around making inexpensive PCs know about HDTVs?"

    For a lot of people, it probably won't matter. Dell is a name that most people know, and a good amount trust, so it is expected that they can make fairly reliable/quality products. Some consumers need to go no further...

  9. Plasma/LCD vs DLP by Bruha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm sorry but there is no compelling reason for me to ever want a plasma tv. We've got plenty and they have all had burn in issues.

    I dont think image quality is better than a CRT

    And I dont need to mount it on the wall.

    I consider either a DLP big screen or projector as a more logical choice and the price helps also.

    1. Re:Plasma/LCD vs DLP by FirstTimeCaller · · Score: 2, Interesting

      there is no compelling reason for me to ever want a plasma tv.

      Amen. While I love the large screen, the cost and lifetime issues make it a non-starter for me. Personally, I'm holding out hope for OLED TV's. But it looks like we'll need to wait until 2007... hurry up already!

      --
      Wanted: witty unique signature. Must be willing to relocate.
  10. Re:Selling plasma HDTVs is not a rocket science... by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Informative

    I always find it funny. When a company finally beats there competitor they start taking on many of the competitors traits. There was a time where Dell wasn't considered Low Cost PC, But Reliable systems, The same with Gateway a decade earlier. If you let quality drop to far (from tring to be the most afordable) people start disliking your brand. I knew so many people back in early 2000 who got a Gateway because it was cheaper then the Dell and by 2001 They were going I should have put the extra money in and got a Dell. But now Dells quality is going down a bit and we are looking for a New Company to come up to the plate. Compaq/HP The Compaq name means it sucks, Gateway Sucks, Dell Starting to suck. IBM Getting better but they are selling their PC market. The other guys have trouble with making midrange Desktops.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  11. Plasma short lifespan... by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I dunno. Unless plasma TV have gotten a lot better...I don't want one. I guess I'm old school, but, when I lay out money for a nice, large TV, I expect to get more than 2-3 years use out of them. We have plasma tv's in the lobbies of the bldgs I work at...they're on during the day on the news channels. They have to be replace almost annually as you can see where the logos and talking heads of people are....the first ones were early ones at $25K each...cheaper now, but, still. My $2K 60' projection tv has a great picture on it in my living room...is on every hour I'm at home...and doesn't have the problem with display degradation over such a short period of time.

    Are LCD tv's any better?

    If I'm gonna lay out over $3K...I expect a tv that will still be working well for at least 5-10 years. All my old ones did....

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    1. Re:Plasma short lifespan... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Are LCD tv's any better?

      Yes. They don't burn in images.

      You're 100% right, Plasma TVs are not worth buying unless you are the type of person who buys a new TV every year anyway.

    2. Re:Plasma short lifespan... by lowrydr310 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I'm asking myself these same questions. I'll soon be in the market for a big ass TV and I started doing a little research. As thin and light as plasma TVs are, their price doesn't exactly make them disposable.

      Are there any issues with burn-in on the HD projection TVs? Can you play video games on them without loss of picture quality?

      From what I understand, LCD TVs don't have these problems, however they're not exactly cheap.

    3. Re:Plasma short lifespan... by shawb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe you want to look into low profile CRT then. They aren't QUITE on the market yet, but neither are you, from what I understand. They are cabable of getting a bit larger viewing area than standard CRTs, and have less depth (physically, not colorwise.) They also have better color/contrast/brightness/viewing angle than LCD/Plasma. Of course they will cost a bit more than standard CRTs, but less than LCD/Plasma. I haven't heard anything about how well they hold up, though. Haven't been able to find much info online, just what I heard from a friend who sells TVs for a living, who heard it from a rep (I believe Toshiba, but don't quote me on that.)

      Or depending on your definition of big ass TV, you could go with a standard Sony CRT up to 36". True, those are some heavy SOBs, but the tubes will last through anything. If you're looking for a good clean picture, this is the way you probably want to go. If you're looking to impress people, just spend that extra couple thousand dollars you would have spent on flat panel to build up an impressive movie and video game collection, or spend it on a really good sound system.

      Seriously, If there is so little room in the house that you NEED flat panel, then you probably won't be able to sit far enough from the screen that you need anything larger than 36". Unless you just want to show people how much disposable cash you have. And if you're looking to impress, girls would probably be more impressed with you spending money on a good set of copper pans and learning how to cook well enough that you can actually use them.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  12. Not HDTV by mamer-retrogamer · · Score: 5, Informative

    At 1024X768 this "High Definition" television can not fully render neither of the two High-Def resolutions of 720p (1280x720) nor 1080i (1920x1080 interlaced).

    -Mike

    --
    Schrödinger's cat is not amused—maybe.
  13. Not a true HDTV by That's+Unpossible! · · Score: 4, Informative

    I quote:

    "The W4200HD has a native pixel resolution of 1024x768, and as such, isn't a true HD device, since it doesn't have enough pixels to draws [sic] a 1280x720 (720p) HDTV image."

    Which means it also can't do 1080i (which requires 1920x1080, almost twice the horizontal resolution this TV is capable of).

    --
    Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
  14. + in home service... by ShineyMcShine · · Score: 2, Funny

    Having the less than glamerous title as a dell onsite service provider I will find myself in the business of going to a site and un-packing and repacking to facilitate the replacement of the plasma on failure. Wow, I can't wait!!!!

  15. disposable $4000 appliances by SuperBanana · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I love how everything is disposable these days. Lithium Ion, for example...the wonder technology that lasts only a year or two. Hard drives that suddenly aren't designed for "continuous or heavy duty use". Capacitors in everything from stereos to motherboards that last a few years before leaking all their electrolyte out and maybe starting a fire.

    Plasma TVs are being pushed like crazy, but the things burn out, guaranteed. A friend of mine said a coworker dropped well over $4,000 on a top of the line plasma screen from Sony several years ago. One day, he pushed the power button, there was a fizz noise, and...that was that. He said sometimes they go dim, or parts stick on or off like a defective LCD, etc...sometimes it just doesn't turn on one day.

    Since when was that acceptable? We pay 4-8 times less for a dishwasher, refridgerator, washer, or drier...and they are considered "major appliances", and expected to last at least a decade!

    I know at least in Massachusetts there's an "implied merchantability"(implied warranty, to grossly simplify) on any product...and wouldn't you expect a TV, devices which traditionally last decades, to last more than 3-4 years?

    --
    Please help metamoderate.
    1. Re:disposable $4000 appliances by ad0gg · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Plasma TVs are being pushed like crazy, but the things burn out, guaranteed. A friend of mine said a coworker dropped well over $4,000 on a top of the line plasma screen from Sony several years ago. One day, he pushed the power button, there was a fizz noise, and...that was that. He said sometimes they go dim, or parts stick on or off like a defective LCD, etc...sometimes it just doesn't turn on one day.

      You pay the price for being an early adopter. New plasma screens have a 60,000 half life(Half brightness on screen). Thats 6 years of it being on constantly on. As for price, plasma tvs are relatively new. Hence they are expensive. They used to be $10k a piece. I have feeling they'll drop to below $1000 in a couple years. There's many choices for the consumer, you could get an lcd rear project, tube(42" tube would way a few hundred pounds), dlp.

      --

      Have you ever been to a turkish prison?

    2. Re:disposable $4000 appliances by MonMotha · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Now be fair. The bad capacitors that you're referring to were caused by some shoddy manufacturer cutting corners (and a fair bit of industrial espionage gone wrong too, I've heard). In general, that was considered a product *failure*. True, there were some motherboard makers who refused to provide replacements (whom I, for one, will never buy from again), but on the whole, leaking electrolytic capactitors (at least over any reasonable term) is considered to be component failure. Capacitors are not considered user replacable, and certainly aren't considered disposable.

      Also, I don't know about you, but my Li-Ions don't "last for a year or two". Sure, after a couple years they're not like they were at first, but neither is a Ni-Cd or Ni-MH, and you're forgetting that most battery types aren't rechargable at all. The world of batteries hasn't caught up with the uses of batteries yet. It's not like there's some other product on the market that's not "disposable" or that similar products in the past were more reliable. The only battery I can think of that handles recharge/discharge cycling better is good ol' Lead-Acid (like in your car), and I'm doubting you want to lug one of those around to power your PDA (they don't scale down to that size very well).

      I agree, though, that Plasma TVs are silly. I personally like a good DLP for larger sizes or a direct view LCD or CRT in smaller sizes (depending on the use). Even projection CRT is still viable up at larger screen sizes (and, while they require continuous twiddling to keep a good picture, they generally don't fail completely in any reasonable term). Plasmas just don't cut it in my opinion. They're expensive and subject to burn-in. There's no real reason to buy a plasma unless you absolutely need to hang a large screen (bigger than a feasable direct view LCD) on your wall, in which case, like the batteries I mentioned before, there's no feasable alternative, so you have to accept the state of technology.

      Now, hard drives that aren't rated for "continuous or *heavy duty* use" (emphasis mine) is silly. What exactly constitutes "heavy duty" use? I would say that basically any use of a hard drive is normal use. Continuous I could understand if the normal failure mode for hard drives wasn't the stress of power-on...

    3. Re:disposable $4000 appliances by AsimovBesterClarke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Since when was that acceptable?

      Oh, I don't know. Perhaps about the time rebooting or flat out reinstalling became the accepted means to fix a computer problem?

      --
      Ads are broken.
    4. Re:disposable $4000 appliances by asylum · · Score: 2, Informative

      "My friend's TV burned out, so all Plasma TV's are guaranteed to burn out!"

      Nice logic.

      There is a lot of FUD out there concerning the longevity of plasma displays. Check out this article for a sensible analysis of the problem.

      (If you're too lazy to read the article, it basically says that you can reasonably expect to be watching your plasma tv 10 years from now)

  16. What do they know? by Shkuey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But what does a company built around making inexpensive PCs know about HDTVs?

    Apparently not much, because at a native resolution of 1024x768, that panel is NOT HD.

  17. Rectangular pixels by doormat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The pixels on this display are wider than they are tall. Which is what'll end up happening if you watch too much TV.

    Yea, I agree, it is dishonest to say this is a HDTV since it isnt 1280 wide.

    --
    The Doormat

    If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
  18. Maybe just wait for SED display. by zymano · · Score: 4, Interesting


    Flat panel SED

    Photos of SED

  19. Re:I would like to enter Michael Dell by voorko02 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ah, the bitter words of someone with both a small penis and small TV.

    How tired and cliched is this arguement. At least you didn't say it was bought by men going through a mid life crisis.

    Hell this overcompensating logic could apply to just about everything posted on slashdot. Why do people buy iPods? Small penis. Why do people overclock a mac mini? Inadequate in bed.

    Sorry its just this combined with another comment using the term "Jump the Shark" was a little too much for me. Lets just Skip the Monkeys and stop spouting tired cliches to give meaning to our opinions.

  20. Re:I would like to enter Michael Dell by dustinbarbour · · Score: 2, Funny

    I second this.. only my penis is decidedly HUGE!

    --
    What is your penile percentile?
  21. There is a bigger fish to be had... better n cheap by zioncity · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A friend of mine recently got a Pioneer Plasma at Best Buy recently. The size is like 42 or 43 inches... After all rebates, 500 from Pioneer, 100 from Comcast and also with buying the 4 year warranty for like 400 clams.. and taxes... I believe the set was costing about 3500-3550. Now he also got a 300 dollar best buy gift check and 200 in bonus bucks... for 500 in extra spending cash.

    This set also comes with their PureDrive video processor which handles processing, filtering of all HD, SD and ED signals... for those rednecks out there... Standard TV or SD, ED or 480progressive signals and of course, HD or 720p. This processing unit on his tv.. a 43 inch now confirmed, fuckin rocked serious ass. Cartoon Network and Dexters Laboratory or Toonami never made Standard TV look so good and for us size queens,.. bigger is better... LOL.

    But seriously.. even with the PixelWorks chip... the Pioneer is not only superior quality in terms of longevity, but that PureVision Box rocks and is an excellent video processor for the buck. Another comparison is my 30 inch Syntax Olevia HDTV lcd has the same PixelWorks chip and contrary to popular belief... it is freaking awesome for the buck... especially after you fine tune each input via the setup on the remote, each input has it's own settings...

    So unless Dell can come up with a better trick,.. I say go Pioneer for Plasma... Syntax Olevia or other for a better deal and and better quality LCDs. By the way... I got mine for $999 at MicroCenter in Boston and with my Denon 1910, with DVI and 720p upscaling... Finding Nemo, Sky Captain and LOTR 3, Return of the King with very good night fight scenes on the Syntax... gave me a good ole woo... er uh... you know what I mean.

    Nuff said.

    Zion

  22. Re:(I-Z)DTV and floppy drives. by grumpygrodyguy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    HDTV has been a long problematic transition, which won't be replaced in the foreseeable future.

    Yes, but many of us have been waiting for years to play PC games on a widescreen. Some of us are already doing it, but the majority of us would like to be doing it very soon. Some companies like these guys are recognizing the demand.

    So I guess my point is that the 'killer app' that starts widespread adaptation of HDTV may have nothing to do with television at all, but rather with the PS2, Xbox, Gamecube, and PC.

    --
    The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
  23. why would you blow your money on one of these? by utexaspunk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    when you can get the 30" apple cinema display for less? Sure, it's 12" less in the diagonal dimension, but is TV really any better that much bigger? And at 2560x1600 (as opposed to the Dell's measly 1024x768) it can actually display HDTV, and will be much more usable for computing. ...not to mention that it looks way cooler...

  24. Advertorial Alert by SethJohnson · · Score: 4, Interesting



    This fellow, ThinSkin, is a schill for ExtremeTech.com. Check his user info. In February, ThinSkin has submitted four articles that were accepted for Slashdot publication and all of them were links to ExtremeTech.com content.

    Clearly this is paid placement to increase traffic to ExtremeTech.

    --
    $5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
    1. Re:Advertorial Alert by null+etc. · · Score: 3, Insightful
      This fellow, ThinSkin, is a schill for ExtremeTech.com. Check his user info. In February, ThinSkin has submitted four articles that were accepted for Slashdot publication and all of them were links to ExtremeTech.com content.

      Or, these are the only two websites he ever reads.

      Still, I have to admire his ability to get submissions accepted. In my six years here, I've never done so, even though my submissions usually cover topics of substance.

      Hmmm, I'm clearly going about this all wrong!

      I'll set up a script that automatically checks for new articles on ExtremeTech, and then submits them to /.!

  25. If and only if R&D == by drjzzz · · Score: 3, Funny

    Repeat & Duplicate!

    --
    to err is human, to forgive is divine, to forget is... umm...
  26. Re:Selling plasma HDTVs is not a rocket science... by klubar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What does a company known for making expensive computers know about portable music players?

  27. Don't lump LCD in with Plasma! by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sheesh! LCD doesn't have burn-in and makes an excellent PC monitor. I've getting a Sharp 45" AQUOS primary for use with my HTPC.

    Sure, it's pricey, but everything with better than 720p resolution is pricey, especially the coming 1080p DLP sets. Then again, if 1280 X 720 is good enough for you, then price becomes a compelling factor as you say.

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