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The State of the Open Source Union, 2004

Mark Stone writes with a thoughtful look back at the year 2004 in open source, pointing out both major gains and inevitable uncertainties. He writes "2004 stands out as a year in which open source consolidated its position as a valuable and accepted approach to business and technology policy. A less obvious but significant trend underlies all of this: even as open source business models join the mainstream, the open source development model remains a mysterious process on which large technology companies struggle to capitalize. Key issues and developments have played out in four areas: legal, policy, business, and technology." Read on for the rest. Legal

The biggest non-story of the year was SCO's legal efforts. So far SCO has not been able to make substantial headway with a single one of its legal claims, and indeed has suffered a number of significant setbacks in court.

This is certainly good news for Linux and open source. Going back five or six years, clearly one of the major obstacles to widespread adoption of open source software was the uncertain legal status of both the software and the licenses. While this aspect of open source is still an unfinished saga -- more on that shortly -- the inability of SCO, through either legal or PR channels, to undermine Linux gives reason for confidence about the future.

The real story about SCO in 2004 has in fact been the telling of that story. While mainstream media coverage of SCO has varied widely -- sometimes accurate, sometimes resembling coverage of the OJ Simpson trial -- Groklaw has emerged as a steady voice of reason and objectivity adeptly defusing all attempts at "FUD" PR around the case.

2004 has been, especially as an election year, a controversial year for the phenomenon of blogging. Whether blogging will provide a sustainable alternate voice in journalism is very much an open question. A few blog sites, however, have shown what a handful of dedicated individuals can do in the face of much larger, and better funded PR machines. Groklaw is an outstanding example of the positive journalism effect that blogging can have.

The legal front brought other good news for the open source community. Norway's Supreme Court acquitted Jon Johansen, and the Norwegian Economic Crime Unit opted not to appeal the decision. In the United States the Digital Millenium Copyright Act still remains the law of the land, but the Recording Industry Association of America has made little progress in forcing ISPs to disclose the identities of alleged file swappers.

A more troubling legal trend is the shift in debate about the intellectual property status of open source software. The principles behind the "copyleft" approach have gained continued acceptance, and have even been leveraged as an integral part of some business models. The debate now, however, centers more around patents that copyright.

IBM has been out in front of the patent issue. Their open source license was the first to explicitly address patent licensing as an issue above and beyond copyright, and they've taken steps, even recent steps, to see that open source development is unencumbered by patent concerns. IBM is not the only company putting patents in the open source domain. Sun Microsystems recently announced they will make patents available under their recently approved Common Development and Distribution open source license (CDDL).

All of this would seem to be good news for the open source community, especially given that Poland's objections have put a temporary halt to the Europan Union software patent initiative. Appearances can be deceiving, however. IBM is a supporter of software patents. Sun's gesture is in fact intended to create a competitive advantage for OpenSolaris over Linux, since the patent protection Sun offers applies only to work licensed under the CDDL -- in other words, not Linux. In a recent News.com commentary, Bruce Parens said, "So while claiming to make the patents available to open-source developers, Sun can sue folks who work on Linux rather than Solaris."

The biggest patent concern comes from Microsoft. In a speech in Australia, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer claimed that Linux violated more than 200 patents. While this may be more hype -- or hope -- than fact, it does tip Microsoft's hand in terms of what tactics they are willing to use to meet the Linux competitive threat.

Policy

All other things being equal, customers prefer an open system to a closed one, and vendor choice over vendor lock-in. In the IT world in general, and between Windows and Linux in particular, all other things are not equal, which makes platform choice complicated. More and more, however, organizations are seeing Linux as a viable platform choice that

  • Lowers up-front licensing fees
  • Has the support and backing of significant technology vendors, whether small, medium (Red Hat), or large (IBM, Novell)
  • Avoids vendor lock-in at both the platform and application level

These claims are independent of the more controversial claims about improving security and lowering total cost of ownership. 2004 has added an interesting additional element to the mix: the desire of government organizations outside the United States to not be dependent on a large, American technology company whose revenues exceed the gross national product of most nations.

This software declaration of independence has taken several forms. Sometimes it seems simply to be a negotiating tactic to force Microsoft to lower prices. India may be an example.

Sometimes, however, price is not the issue. Munich, for example, committed to making the switch to Linux despite direct lobbying efforts by Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer. In the case of a high tech country like Germany, this decision is probably influenced by the reluctance to be dependent on an American company guilty of monopoly practices.

The situation in the developing world is somewhat different. Unshackled by significant requirements of backward compatibility, emerging economies like Venezuela's have a chance to make a clean start and avoid what they perceive as the pitfalls and inefficiencies in older IT infrastructures.

The policy approach in China is even more alarming to traditional technology vendors. China clearly does not want to build an economy dependent on outside production or services, whether it's factories or satellite launches. In the software world China has made it clear that it can and will build its own platform and application stack leveraging open source components, if that is what it has to do to maintain control of its software destiny.

Business

The North American market for computer technology has, in many ways, reached the saturation point. A Pentium 4, to say nothing of a 64-bit processor, is already overkill for most office desktop applications. Older versions of the Microsoft Office suite, and older versions of Microsoft Windows, are often quite adequate for business productivity needs. The problem for traditional technology vendors is aggravated by the fact that Linux, Open Office, and other open source software may now be good enough.

On the one hand this accounts for why policy issues and the international technology market have become so important: this is where technology vendors see the biggest opportunity to grow new business. On the other hand, open source is forcing some significant changes in the software market domestically.

The most visible effect of open source has been the commoditization effect. Microsoft, as we've seen, has been forced to acknowledge the competitive impact Linux is having, and to cut prices overseas in response to this competition. Yet even companies like BEA acknowledge that open source will have an increasing commoditizing effect, meaning that they will cede lower levels of the application stack to freely available open source software and seek to add value further up the stack.

The most dramatic concession to commoditization in 2004 has been the announcement that Sun is open sourcing Solaris. Said one Sun executive who asked to remain anonymous, "Do you think we'd be open sourcing Solaris if we had any other way to compete with Linux on price? Of course not."

If anything, the opening of Solaris reinforces that Sun has been unable to find a business model built around Linux. Given that competitors like IBM and HP have, with varying degrees of success, been able to integrate Linux into their business models, one suspects that there are deeper problems at Sun than the opening of Solaris can solve.

The bottom line is that Sun is still trying to compete with, rather than embrace Linux. The CDDL doesn't extend patent protection to anyone working under a different open source License, and the CDDL is incompatible with the GPL, meaning none of the Solaris code can be used to benefit Linux.

This move, of using a license as a competitive tool, is one of the more subtle but more important business trends to emerge from open source in 2004.

The most common approach is a dual-licensing scheme, utilized by Trolltech (for Qt), Sleepycat (for Berkeley DB), MySQL, and newcomer db4objects, among others.

In each case the company makes its core product available under the GPL, or else under a similar viral-type license. Since each of these software products is intended to be embedded within or combined with other software to create a derivative product, companies are forced to make their own product available as open source, or to approach the originating company about separate licensing under proprietary terms.

The result is a very low-cost distribution mechanism for the open source companies, as well as a cheap in-bound sales channel of pre-qualified leads.

Of course, to be able to dual-license, you must have created all the code in question, or have full rights granted to you for all the code in question. Thus this very successful open source business model is incompatible with the open source development model; each of the companies using the dual-license approach does all, or nearly all of their software development in-house.

Technology

What then of the open source development model? Has it enjoyed the growth and widespread acceptance that open source business models have?

Certainly 2004 saw a number of significant releases for open source projects. GIMP 2.0 was finally released, as was Gnome 2.6. Large companies as well as individual projects made strides. IBM announced the release of its Java database, Cloudscape, as open source. Novell released SUSE Enterprise Server 9.

The year's most significant releases were the 2.6 series of Linux kernels, and the 1.0 release of Mono. With 2.6, Linux now has many of the features needed to compete as an enterprise-class server: better multiprocessor support, failover and hot-swap support, better journaling file system support.

Mono is absolutely critical if the open source community is to compete in the application development market. C# and .Net will be important application building blocks for the forseeable future, and Linux and open source need to be viable approaches.

The Debian Project has undergone an interesting evolution in the last year. Long-time Debian users have often complained about the slow pace at which Debian moves, favoring security and stability over feature growth. The result is a very solid server system, but one that, for the end user, often lacks support for advanced hardware.

The solution, which seems so obvious now, is independent distributions that leverage Debian as a base but target the end user with ease-of-use features and hardware-support features that have yet to make it into Debian. Two successful projects heading down this path are Ubuntu, which follows the Gnome approach to usability, and Mepis, which follows the KDE approach to usability. Either distribution will give you an easy install, access to Debian packages and apt-based network updates, but with more advanced hardware support and an improved UI over stock Debian.

By far the biggest development story of the year, however, has been Firefox, the browser component of the Mozilla project.

Timing is everything. Security, privacy, and spyware have become major concerns in 2004. Microsoft has refused to significantly update Internet Explorer (IE) until Longhorn is released, which could be in 2006 (as in "Santa Claus could be real"). The Mozilla Foundation capitalized on this opportunity with a major fundraising blitz for the foundation and PR blitz around Firefox; this included a full-page New York Times ad.

In November, Firefox 1.0 was released, and to date downloads exceed 10 million. Mozilla has raised over $250,000 in its fundraising campaign. While IE's market share still hovers around 90%, Firefox has rapidly grown to 5% market share, and put a dent in IE's market share for the first time in years. Industry analyst Gartner Group has looked at the results of 2004 and declared the browser war open again.

Looking ahead to 2005, it's interesting to ponder the tech sector's differing response to open source business and open source development models. The business models are reasonably well understood and generally accepted now. Not everyone is leveraging open source as a business play, but everyone understands it is one viable strategy to pursue.

On the development side, however, the results of open source continue to confound the establishment. Why did no one see the Firefox phenomenon coming? Equally important, why isn't anyone (AOL) attempting to leverage Firefox's market success and technology advantages?

With Solaris, it's interesting to note that even supporters of OpenSolaris admit it sees no real development savings to opening Solaris; the benefits are all on the marketing side. Ben Rockwood blogs "It's going to take Sun more work to maintain it open source than it will to just leave it closed."

Yes, open source has become mainstream. But that mainstream presence needs to be more than a commodity benefit to companies willing to leverage the results of open source. Will mainstream technology companies figure out how to anticipate and collaborate with open source development as a deep part of their technology strategy? That's a big question that 2005 may answer.

Mark Stone is an open source consultant and freelance writer living in the Sierra Nevada region of Northern California. He can be reached at mark.stone@gmail.com.

211 comments

  1. No link by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 0, Troll

    It would have been nice to include a link to the material, so us non-subscribers could have perused the material while waiting for the 'please move along' dialog to go away...

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    1. Re:No link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the material.

    2. Re:No link by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 1

      You're missing the point....the material was inaccessable while the 'nothing to see here' dialog was up.

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      ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

  2. OSS for voting ! by ThomasFlip · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hope Hillary Clintons bill does go through. Although Diebold and the GOP will stonewall it, I think that this would be the PERFECT environment for OSS. Get a university to write it.

    --
    If the dollar is an "I owe you nothing", then the Euro is a "Who owes you nothing." - Doug Casey
    1. Re:OSS for voting ! by jeffehobbs · · Score: 4, Interesting


      After that, it would be nice if our government funded an open-source "TurboTax" replacement. I find it annoying that expensive commercial software is required to make sense of our tax laws and forms.

      ~jeff

    2. Re:OSS for voting ! by size1one · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't limit it to just 1 government application. There are numerous applications that all levels of government need. Opensource is the perfect fit for government entities because they arent there to make money, they are there to serve the people in the most efficient manner possible.

    3. Re:OSS for voting ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If some people can't even figure out basic paper ballots, computer assisted voting will blow their minds!

      Seriously.

      The voting system isn't being hampered by "butterfly" ballots (which only requires simple line following skills) or problems getting to voting locations (solved by planning ahead of time). Voting is being screwed up by idiots and those that over-amplify/distort the few problems for selfish political gain. And, of course, everyone wants their side to win so it's only to easy to drum up hysterics if it hurts the opposition.

      And who the hell would trust universities, the largest institutions of political bias and suppression, to create a honest voting system?

      Joe Sheep (and slashdotters), that's who.

    4. Re:OSS for voting ! by jmacleod9975 · · Score: 1

      You do what? Simplify tax codes?

    5. Re:OSS for voting ! by SpongeBobLinuxPants · · Score: 0

      You can efile federal taxes for free online (www.irs.gov) from several companies, TurboTax included.

    6. Re:OSS for voting ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's spelt 'Idiot'.

    7. Re:OSS for voting ! by rbanffy · · Score: 1

      Brazilian Govt. offers a free (as in beer) program to do your taxes. It has a Windows and a Java version, but it is not, for now, open sorce.

      It's a step in the right direction tough. Currently more that 90% of the tax forms are submitted electronically.

      As for voting, there are other issues. Brazilian government discloses the source code to all political parties, but not to the population in general. The license under which it was developed, AFAIK (I worked on the 2002 release) does not allow it.

    8. Re:OSS for voting ! by mikefe · · Score: 1

      I was surprised to find it myself last night, but there are already projects like the Open Tax Solver which are already useful and are heading in that direction.

      Also check out a search for "tax" on freshmeat for other projects. (I usually reverse-sort by vitality to see the most active projects).

      Mike

      --
      There: Something at a specific location.
      Their: Owned by someone.
      Please make sure your english compiles.
    9. Re:OSS for voting ! by downwa · · Score: 1

      It's not OSS, but there are many inexpensive (or free) websites which provide tax services, and work on open source browsers. I personally use Tax ACT, which is free for paper-based taxes and $8-$10 for e-filing.

      --
      Life's a lot like money-- you spend it, then it's gone. Spend wisely.
  3. Need a Constitution too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We the People of the United Open Sourcers, in Order to form a more perfect Code Base, abolish FUD, insure programmatic Tranquility, provide for the common security, promote the general technological Welfare, and secure Blessings of Library to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the United Open Sourcers of the World.

    1. Re:Need a Constitution too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      The only question is, who is Mark Stone, and why do I give a crap about what he thinks the state of this non-existant "union" is?

      Oh, he's Yet Another Software Consultant? And I don't give one? Okay, thanks.

    2. Re:Need a Constitution too... by Ruie · · Score: 1
      We'll need a Bill of Rights as well, post corrections below.

      • There shall be no law to prohibit sharing of knowledge, or the right of people to communicate or post messages on Slashdot.
      • A well-educated populace being essential to the progress of Open Source, the right of people to keep and use the instruments of science shall not be infringed.
      • No software shall be installed forceably on personal possessions, be it brain or computing device, or required to participate in protected communication.
    3. Re:Need a Constitution too... by bonch · · Score: 0, Troll

      2004 stands out as a year in which open source consolidated its position as a valuable and accepted approach to business and technology policy.

      It was a great article, but I've seen this said for every year since 1998.

    4. Re:Need a Constitution too... by palpatine · · Score: 1

      Mark Stone has been an active member of the Linux and open source community for a long time. He's been using Linux for over 10 years and has been active from early on with the Bay Area LUG, Executive Editor for Open Source at O'Reilly, and has been one of the most important figures in VA Linux and now OSDN.

      I've had the honor to work with him on Linux.com in '99 and 2000. This guy knows what he's talking about.

    5. Re:Need a Constitution too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Thus the pro-Linux slant in the article, as if OSS _is_ Linux, which it most certainly is not. Open up your eyes a little!

    6. Re:Need a Constitution too... by hey! · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's kind of more like the tide coming in than a rushing flood. You'd have to go away from the beach for a while then come back to be able to see the change.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  4. From the article: by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer claimed that Linux violated more than 200 patents.

    Honestly, how do you take such a claim seriously??? If M$ wasn't such a financial juggernaut, this would be hilarious. As it stands, it's depressingly sobering...M$ has the financial clout to do a lot of damage in court, event if the cases are ultimately thrown out.

    --
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    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    1. Re:From the article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ballmer didn't make the original claim: PJ's little insurance sugar daddy did. It came from the Linux faithful.

    2. Re:From the article: by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 1

      Just quoting the article as posted...I work with what I'm given.

      --
      ____

      ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    3. Re:From the article: by delire · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As it stands, it's depressingly sobering...M$ has the financial clout to do a lot of damage in court


      .. thankfully not here in the EU - given that software patents are generally considered destructive right up to a parliamentary level. we'll see what the new swpatent draft looks like however. see http://nosoftwarepatents.com/

      also consider that the new GPL is looking closely at patents toward the end of greater resilience in court. meanwhile IBM, Redhat and Novell now provide indemnity to their enterprise linux customers where swpats are concerned, the market battlefield on which M$ would fight first.

      as it stands it isn't quite as depressing as it was this time last year. anyway, it's not the court cases i worry about, it's the fact that the mere existance of software patents discourages innovation amongst many small development houses (where it all happens first).
    4. Re:From the article: by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 1

      Neato....looks like I have a foe...

      Now only if he had a name...

      --
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      ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

  5. Firefox is good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    But it leaks quite a bit of memory. If you want corporations like AOL to pay attention to a product like Firefox, more attention needs to paid to minor details like this.

  6. regarding MEPIS by Mantorp · · Score: 2, Informative
    As a newbie it's great, but when you need to install new things it gets trickier.

    Been attempting apt-get install plone to work with no success.

    1. Re:regarding MEPIS by Anubis350 · · Score: 1

      have you tried running it as root? is it an privilege problem or dependancy. If you're going to make a statement like above, please provide more information. You might receive some help then.

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    2. Re:regarding MEPIS by Mantorp · · Score: 1

      Well, I know this isn't the right forum for it so I was just venting. Spent hours on it yesterday. It actually tells you NOT to run the install as root. Problem is the dependencies, some of the paths refer to outdated names. E.g. for the Zope part of it looks for a folder called zope while the install puts it in a folder called zope2.7 (can't remember exactly, but that's close)

    3. Re:regarding MEPIS by Anubis350 · · Score: 1

      hmmm.... my (debian) machine shows all the dependencies just fine, and apt-get install plone installs fine, along with all the zope dependents. I would suggest changing your apt sources file to use debians repositories, but I don't know enough about mepis to advise well. You should try the mepis' mailing lists (something which I'm sure, based on your reply, you're all ready doing). The fact that debian's sources install fine though does make good your comment about installation in mepis. GL with the problem.

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    4. Re:regarding MEPIS by Mantorp · · Score: 1

      The weakest link in all this is without a doubt me. But, I'm hanging in there. It'll work one of these days. (nb it took me roughly 5 minutes for it to work in Win 98, not that I'm bitter)

    5. Re:regarding MEPIS by KwKSilver · · Score: 1

      If you have a version of Mepis with Synaptic you may wish to try that as it does a good job of resolving dependencies etc. Hmmh ... you'll want to update the source too, if not already doene--which can also be done with apt-get.. I dis apt-get update folloed by apt-get dist-upgrade to my Mepis 2005.rc3 install Saturday & have had no probleems yet. Not familiar with zope ... Good luck!

      --
      If you want your life to be different, live it differently.
  7. WTF? by LordHunter317 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So some freelance writer makes a store for /. and all of the sudden it's the offical F/OSS "State of the Union".

    CmdrTaco, guys, nice try, but you need to quit stroking your egos now.

    This is probably the worst article ever.

    1. Re:WTF? by northcat · · Score: 1

      Also, the article should be titled "The State of the Open Source Union in USA, 2004" since most of the article only discusses things related to USA. Not to mention, naming it "The state of the ... Union" which refers to USA.

    2. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus, man, take a chill pill. This article was just supposed to be a sum up of the past years events in OSS. WTF would you call it?

      And feel free here to interject anything that wasn't mentioned that applies to open source world wide and somehow doesn't involve the US. Thanks.

  8. 2.6 was in 2003, not 2004 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is just a technicality, but it should be noted that the 2.6 branch of the Linux kernel started with 2.6.0, which was officially released December of 2003, _not_ in 2004 as mentioned in the article.

    1. Re:2.6 was in 2003, not 2004 by Dan+Ost · · Score: 1

      I think the idea is that the impact of the 2.6 kernel was felt in 2004, even
      though it was officially released in 2003.

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
    2. Re:2.6 was in 2003, not 2004 by Surt · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm pretty sure this publication used the marketing calendar, not the gregorian one.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    3. Re:2.6 was in 2003, not 2004 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 Intersightfunny

  9. State of the American union. by dj245 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well at least there weren't 68 clapping breaks and 22 uses of the word "Freedom".

    --
    Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    1. Re:State of the American union. by temojen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The 22 uses of "Freedom" would have been more appropriate than in the US State of the Union address.

    2. Re:State of the American union. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Yes, because "freedom" is obviously a bad word and we should revile anybody who suggests that we should promote it. ...if you're rich.

      Damn! that does work!

    3. Re:State of the American union. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we should revile anyone who suggests we promote Freedom, who also pushes through the PATRIOT Act, imprisons people without trial, and promotes people who advocate torture.

  10. COMPLETE MILITARY HISTORY OF AMERICA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    1775-1783: The British crown presents a bill to American settlers who must now pay for their protection. Ungrateful settlers who are already allergic to taxes go on a rampage and attack tea boxes on a ship; several Americans are wounded in explosions. Americans win their sole victory in Saratoga when general Burgoyne realizes that Canadian merchants sold him ragweed instead of tea before his departure. Facing a mutiny he decides to surrender. In the following years Americans will lose most of their battles due to their lack of discipline and massive desertions. In 1781, 30,000 French soldiers & sailors accept to integrate 11,000 American mascots who will play music from afar while the French win the Battle of Yorktown.

    1812: The American army is crushed by an army of spear hurling natives and drunken Scotsmen trying to invade Canada, and abandons annexation plans. During the 19 the century, several raids are led against Indian women and babies with the US troops achieving some victories, but fail in their effort to ethnically cleanse the Indians. Nevertheless, some successful slaughters will lead them to believe that they are mighty and courageous warriors.

    1861-1865: Americans win an impressive victory against themselves but it took a while. The Civil War as it comes to be called, will turn out to be the only war Americans ever win. Mind you they beat themselves, but why digress.

    1898: The Spanish succeed a master coup and get rid of Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines at the expense of the Americans, leaving them the impression that they won the war. Soon the US discovers that there is no oil there, and that their new possessions are a wastebasket, more than anything else.

    1900-1950: A series of military interventions against banana republics in South America and the Caribbean against people armed with slingshots and spears has a beneficial effect on the American ego.

    1918: The Americans arrive just on time to see the victory of the French and the British against the Germans. They then turn around, and try to claim the high ground by sabotaging the peace treaty and stabbing France in the back when it tries to enforce reparations and prevent Germany from rearming, thus setting the stage for WWII.

    1941-1945: While as many as 20 million Russians die bleeding the Wermacht to death, the US wait until the Germans are left with the Hitler Youth, a children's' force comprised of 14 year old soldiers to launch their assault. They are still saying today that they suffered heavy loses at their hands. In the whole Normandy Campaign they suffer less casualties than the French did in the first six months of 1940, and inflict less damage on the Germans, yet this is enough for them to claim they liberated Europe. That claim alone is the biggest piece of historical myth in history.

    1950-1953: The US fails to beat North Korea, in 1953 the borders are still roughly what they were three years earlier.

    1963-1973: Americans suffer cruelly from the lack of AC and marijuana of a poor quality in Vietnam. When they realize that their soldiers can be killed in a war, they retreat.

    1983: The combined aviation, navy and ground troops apply an audacious plan and succeed to beat a bunch of Cuban workers armed with shovels in Granada. The celebrations go on for weeks with parades and chants of USA, USA.

    1991: Americans align more soldiers than the French or the British combined and succeed in crushing an army of barefoot shiite drafted against their will who are armed with empty rifles and have barely had a thing to eat in months. But even this so-called victory is hollow as it is actually led by the Daguet division from France which leads the charge while American soldiers console themselves by rounding up prisoners for TV crews.

    2003: Iraq. Unable to totally defeat resistance elements on its own...America is now shamelessly begging Third World Nations to pull its fat out of the fire.

    1. Re:COMPLETE MILITARY HISTORY OF AMERICA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is really a sad attempt at copying the hilarious and true military history of France text going around.

      Nice try, but it doesn't even come close.

    2. Re:COMPLETE MILITARY HISTORY OF AMERICA by Deusy · · Score: 1

      As much as this is a parody, it is a travesty that there is no mention of the British in the WWII description. I know this is trying to mock the yanks, but it's a bit harsh to overlook the Brits who didn't capitulate like the French (whose south sided with the Nazis).

      Although to be fair, there's more mention of the Brits in the piece than there is in Saving Private Ryan.

      --

      Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary

  11. It's hard work by GillBates0 · · Score: 1
    Yeah....reading that lengthy article is certainly "hard work".

    But it's good to see Open Source is on the march...

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  12. Political, rather then merit-based alignment by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's interesting that the writer would describe Munich's adoption of more OSS-ish stuff as due to an urge not to be dependent on big bad Redmond (a political decision) where as he credits Venezuela (described as an "emerging economy") with embracing a clean start without being weighed down by the "pitfalls and inefficiencies" of traditional systems (implying policy making by technologists, something that doesn't really resonate with current events in that country).

    Venezuela, of course, is suffering more from self-inflicted wounds than anything else, and certainly the companies doing business there (or trying to, without getting nationalized) are likely to be making their own IT decisions based on low-friction extensions of how they already do things. It seems more likely that to the extent Chavez' government is making any thoughtful IT policy decisions, it's going to be driven by simple cash, or the lack of it.

    The writer's comments on China are also somewhat puzzling. He indicates that China clearly doesn't want to be dependent on outside entities - but that doesn't lead directly to open participation in the OSS-sphere. They (as a matter of government policy, anyway) seem more inclined to establish their own proprietary standards, aimed at making more people dependent on their own industry players' wares and standards. Whether China leverages OSS and plays along, or simply uses that low-cost foothold to build their own stuff and then become MicroChina - we shall see! I think the writer is looking back (and forwards) through a rose-colored monitor on some of this stuff.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    1. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by killawatt5k · · Score: 2, Funny

      MicroChina, damn I wish I would have thought of that. too bad www.microchina.com is already taken

    2. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Venezuela, of course, is suffering more from self-inflicted wounds than anything else, and certainly the companies doing business there (or trying to, without getting nationalized)

      You have no idea what's going on in Venezuela, do you?. I'm surprised Fox News even covered Venezuela long enough for you to pick up this snippet of right-wing fear mongering.

    3. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Well, I was thinking about MicroAsia, too, but that's a lot like Micronesia... all the good stuff is taken! And Macromedia's probably already working on MacroChina.

      Of course, there's always RedSoft, a distribution for the masses. Get it? Heh.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    4. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You have no idea what's going on in Venezuela, do you?

      Um, actually, yes, I do pay attention to actual facts and everything! I'm more impressed by your completely vague (and cowardly anonymous) implication that my take on things is wrong without actually saying in what way it's wrong.

      When I refer to self inflicted wounds in that country, I'm talking about the long term strikers, the thuggish election tactics, the pretension that they (unlike the foolish rest of the world that just can't quite get it right) have discovered a brand new, properly-tuned form of Socialism that will magically bring prosperity to the people there. Please. Running a nationalized semi-economy that tries to sell things to the rest of the world for hard currency while simultaneously condemning the very economic mechanisms that allow international trade to happen in the first place... its all so... Cuban. Of course, we know what a paradise that is. Imagine Cuba with huge oil reserves, and you'll know where Chavez (out of expediency, not love of freedom) is headed. He's trapped in a 40-year old view of the world, and has enough control over what happens in that country to make a lot of his people think that's simply the way it has to be.

      In the meantime, he's borrowing money from China to build housing and win local popularity contests. China, of course, will take the money back in the form of cheap oil.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    5. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by ScentCone · · Score: 0

      Ah! Mod it a Troll without bothering to even read the news! Love it.

      Just take about 30 seconds on Google, looking for keywords like "loan", "Venezuela", "China", "Oil", etc., and you'll get a real sense of how things are shaping up there. Venezuela will become an oil-producing client state of China's, plain and simple. I'm not trolling, I'm just reading the damn news!

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    6. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -1 BLIND FOX NEWS BASHING

      Seriously, liberals, its getting old. If you were debating specific stories or facts that you believe Fox News misrepresented, it would be one thing. Instead we just see constant non-specific discounting of Fox News. Try to graduate past your 4th grade argument and debate things like an adult. People can disagree with you without being ignorant, you know.

    7. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, considering the crowd that hangs out here, reading the news is trolling. Most of the people here couldn't base an argument on fact to save their lives. The funny part is that this is exactly what they accuse other people of doing. Silly liberals, er, I mean, progressives.

    8. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by killawatt5k · · Score: 1

      I agree. google:"panama canal" china venezuela. (it really took 5 seconds)

    9. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by Rei · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Cuba - under a strict embargo and with a superpower in direct opposition, has been doing far better than many other Carribian states - look at Haiti, for example. Heck, Cuba's lifespan is almost as long as that of the US. What a horrible example. There are plenty of examples of socialist collapse out there, but Cuba's a rather poor example.

      the long term strikers

      You mean the ones that opposed Chavez and supported Carmona - the replacement for Chavez after the coup whose first act was to dissolve the judiciary?

      the thuggish election tactics

      Please elaborate - this should be good. :) Be sure to only cover things that were only being done by one side, not both. And remember that those trying to destroy the economy and using a media monopoly that made Pravda look free and independent were the *anti-Chavez* side, not the pro-Chavez side.

      the pretension ... brand new, properly tuned form of Socialism that will magically bring prosperity ...

      Please quote Chavez talking about such a thing. He supports socialism - but, heck, even Spain is under a socialist government. What's the big deal?

      He won 58% of the votes in a recall election monitored by *international monitors* (both the OAS and the Carter Center, both widely respected as election monitors in central and south America - both of which said the election was clean) despite the fact that the opposition owned essentially all media (apart from the Venezuelan equivalent of "PBS") and were viscious about using it against him, as well as attempting to sabotage the country's economy (in order to get him kicked out) via strikes.

      Fox should really get over it. For better or worse, his "bricks and milk" plan - basically a modern day Robin Hood style appeal - has captured the hearts and minds of much of the urban and rural poor who historically have had little voice in the country. It's exactly the result of what you'd expect from his policies: high taxes on the wealthy that fund food kitchens and urban reconstruction. Seizure of unused land from wealthy landowners to give to the poor who were squatting on it. Etc.

      It's kind of funny.... I read this one article of a reporter covering a protest around the time of the election. A huge crowd - tens of thousands of mostly blonde, light-skin anti-Chavez protestors clashed with roughly twice as many brown-haired dark-skinned pro-Chavez protestors, almost like some bizarre overbudget shampoo commercial. The smaller numbers of those with more Spanish ancestry have historically been the middle and upper classes and have typically held power, while the people with more native blood have typically been the poor and unempowered.

      Save your "Socialism doesn't work, I told you so"s for when/if Venezuela's economy falters. Until then, it's not our responsibility - if we want to support democracy, we need to accept that Venezuela's poor are sticking up for this guy. That's one thing that seems hard for many people to accept: Democracy != Pro America. Democracy != Capitalism. Democracy != American ideals. Etc. Democracy equals the will of the people, for better or worse.

      --
      Don't take a knife to a gunfight, or even a knife to a knife fight. Take a gun to a knife fight.
    10. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Ok then.

      The Iron Fist of Hugo Chavez

      First off, from its very title, as well as continuous similar references in the article ("moving toward totalitarian rule", "prepared to do terrible things", "the path to dictatorship", etc), it tries to present him as some sort of brutal, authoritarian dictator, and reads like Pravda with it's extreme one-sidedness.

      The concept is laughable. Can you imagine a case where the United States was *overthrown* by a group of conspirators, the US government regained control, and the very *leader* of the conspirator's punishment was merely house arrest in his mansion? He was elected through democracy, was *overthrown by a coup* whose first action was to *dissolve the judiciary*, and came back and gave them little more than a slap on the wrist. Then, in an election supervized by both the OAS and the Carter Center, both of which certified it as clean, *democratically* won 58% of the vote despite the opposition's media monopoly working full time against him and organizing strikes to try and destroy their own country's economy.

    11. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... and?

      China is the world's second-largest oil consumer and importer. Southeast Asian production and Russian production won't hold them forever, so they either need to get it from Canada, South America, or the Middle East.

    12. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Cuba - under a strict embargo and with a superpower in direct opposition, has been doing far better than many other Carribian states - look at Haiti, for example. Heck, Cuba's lifespan is almost as long as that of the US. What a horrible example. There are plenty of examples of socialist collapse out there, but Cuba's a rather poor example

      The current regime would never have survived its initial forray into communism without Soviet patronage and brutal repression (which continues to this day.. that's "better"?). And they're "thriving" now because of other countries (in Europe and elsewhere) that enjoy having Cuba as a tropical destination, and are willing to overlook the attrocious human rights situation there. Hard to imagine a better example than a place that's willing to imprison and even execute people for trying to leave. "Strong-man" run socialism sure is wonderful! Just like Chavez says it is!

      the long term strikers / the thuggish election tactics

      I'm blaming all sides involved on this sort of thing. That general level of chaos, protest, violence, and industry-wrecking-to-make-a-point is exactly the sort of self-inflicted wounds I mentioned earlier.

      [the pretension ... brand new, properly tuned form of Socialism that will magically bring prosperity ...]

      Please quote Chavez talking about such a thing. He supports socialism - but, heck, even Spain is under a socialist government. What's the big deal?


      Let's see... from a progressive blogger's coverage of a recent Chavez appearance in Brazil: "Everyday I become more convinced, there is no doubt in my mind, and as many intellectuals have said, that it is necessary to transcend capitalism. But capitalism can't be transcended from within capitalism itself, but through socialism, true socialism..."

      Or, from no less of a socialist voice than the UK's Socialist Worker Online, "Chavez gets more radical every year ... He was always sympathetic to the left, but in the last couple of years he's started to make references to Marx and Trotsky ... One of the reasons that Chavez did so well in the referendum is that he gave citizenship to two million people in Venezuela. These people were economic migrants from across Latin America..."

      Or, take a second to read a well-known German liberal's complaints about Chavez essentially giving socialism a bad name.

      Or, maybe another article quoting him on his contention that only socialism (vs. a market economy) can improve his country's circumstances.

      Until then, it's not our responsibility - if we want to support democracy, we need to accept that Venezuela's poor are sticking up for this guy.

      But we (and every open, democratic, non-corrupt culture) have a very, very strong interest in this. They're the #5 oil exporter in the world, they're striking deals with China, Iran, etc., and that truly matters if you care about the nature of totalitarian regimes and those that make money off of them.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    13. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by Rei · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The current regime would never have survived its initial forray into communism without Soviet patronage and brutal repression (which continues to this day.. that's "better"?). And they're "thriving" now because of other countries (in Europe and elsewhere) that enjoy having Cuba as a tropical destination, and are willing to overlook the attrocious human rights situation there. Hard to imagine a better example than a place that's willing to imprison and even execute people for trying to leave. "Strong-man" run socialism sure is wonderful! Just like Chavez says it is!

      I'll note that you dodged and completely refused to compare it to other Carribean countries under the American sphere of influence without an embargo, such as Haiti, or to address it's average lifespan, or anything of the sort. And if you think that Cuba is out of the ordinary in terms of political repression, you've clearly never read a human rights report on half of the countries in Africa, Asia, Oceana, and about a quarter of South and Central America.

      [the pretension ... brand new, properly tuned form of Socialism that will magically bring prosperity ...]

      Please quote Chavez talking about such a thing. He supports socialism - but, heck, even Spain is under a socialist government. What's the big deal?


      You then go on to quote lots of stuff about Chavez endorsing socialism (something that I already mentioned that he supports, and something a good portion of Europe supports as well), but quoted not a thing about him claiming that old concepts of socialism is broken and that he's going to do some sort of New Socialism. Again, another dodge.

      But we (and every open, democratic, non-corrupt culture) have a very, very strong interest in this. They're the #5 oil exporter in the world, they're striking deals with China, Iran, etc., and that truly matters if you care about the nature of totalitarian regimes and those that make money off of them.

      Then pick pro-American over democratic. But in the case of Venezuela, Democratic and Pro-American are conflicting concepts. Carmona, the pro-American leader, was about as undemocratic as they get. Chavez, the anti-American leader, got elected through two clean elections despite a media monopoly and economic-sabotage against him, and hardly even punished the conspirators for it. You can't have both of them.

      BTW - the US sells more to China than Venezuela could ever hope to. I hate this sort of hypocrisy. Sort of like when we condemned the French for doing business with Iraq when we were the world's largest purchaser of Iraqi oil. China needs to get their oil from somewhere; God forbid that an oil producer sell to where there is demand for oil. I thought you liked free trade?

      --
      Don't take a knife to a gunfight, or even a knife to a knife fight. Take a gun to a knife fight.
    14. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      I'll note that you dodged and completely refused to compare it to other Carribean countries under the American sphere of influence without an embargo, such as Haiti, or to address it's average lifespan, or anything of the sort

      Sigh. It's been a long evening, so I'm not hitting every point, but... how does "sphere of influence" relate to Haiti? If the US were to spend any more time peacekeeping, we'd never hear the end of the complaints about how our actual military troops were "occupying" the place. As it is, the US is the single largest source of financial, material, medical, and related aid to that place. It's being kept in Chaos because: 1) there are too many people and too few, too poorly managed resources 2) disease and both petty and no-so-petty corruption run rampant, 3) the local culture is in a tailspin of ignorance and poverty exactly as the French left it when they pulled out of their former slave colony. You want to read up on the complexity of the situation? This is a good start. But I sense that you're thinking that since we don't simply dump trainloads of cash into the country to somehow fix it, that thus we must be a cause of the problem - which is nonsense. Of course, when I mentioned Cuba, I did so because it is a classic example of socialism run amok, and it's a place that Chavez expressly praises (and of course, he and Castro have enjoyed their photo ops and mutual admiration club), so it was appropriate to focus there, as opposed to equally bleak situations in Africa. You didn't hear me mention Africa because that's not what we're talking about.

      You then go on to quote lots of stuff about Chavez endorsing socialism (something that I already mentioned that he supports, and something a good portion of Europe supports as well), but quoted not a thing about him claiming that old concepts of socialism is broken and that he's going to do some sort of New Socialism. Again, another dodge.

      Oh, please. Take five minutes and do a little reading. Try here, for example, where you can read comments from one of his often-quoted speeches where he says, "So, if capitalism (won't work), what will? I have no doubt: socialism. Now, which socialism of many? We should be thinking even about types that haven't existed. We have to invent 21st century socialism..." and so on. He speaks frequently in these terms: socialism as the solution, but only if he gets to make it finally work in his own way.

      On your other subjects: don't put words in my mouth. I have not put pro/anti-Americanism into some formula with democracy/capitalism/communism or any other ism. I'm simply observing (please refer to the original post, sheesh!) that talking about the "state of Linux" in glowing terms, and refering to Venezuela as an example of a place with no need for legacy IT support suggests really missing the point about where that country's money comes from.

      Sort of like when we condemned the French for doing business with Iraq when we were the world's largest purchaser of Iraqi oil.

      Yeah, until Saddam, heavily in debt and running out of economic options (given his spending on Kurd-killing, Iran-attacking, and palace building) decided to invade Kuwait... and subsequently renegged on every agreement he uttered (including the terms of his oil sales through the UN... though I'm sure you can follow the trail on that one, including the huge objections from the French, now for very obvious reasons). But do we sell things to China? Sure! Not nearly as much as we buy from China with cash (a trade defecit in the billions of dollars annually - part of how China can afford to pump money into Venezuelan real estate and oil). I generally don't care who sells what where, but I find it truly telling that Chavez will preach socialism eve

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    15. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by Rei · · Score: 1

      how does "sphere of influence" relate to Haiti?

      Capitalist, unembargoed, and enjoys a much better relationship with the US than Cuba.

      As it is, the US is the single largest source of financial, material, medical, and related aid to that place.

      Compared to embargoing and attempting to destabilize Cuba. And Cuba is doing proportionally quite well. Hence my statement that Cuba was a bad example to pick.

      1) there are too many people and too few, too poorly managed resources

      Cuba has a lot of people, too. So, is the communist dictatorship (communist, not socialist! And dictatorship, not democracy!) simply managing resources better?

      2) disease and both petty and no-so-petty corruption run rampant,

      So, with a medical supplies embargo, Cuba is keeping disease down better, eh? And it's keeping corruption down too, eh?

      3) the local culture is in a tailspin of ignorance and poverty exactly as the French left it when they pulled out of their former slave colony.

      As if Cuba wasn't equally poor under the Batista regime.

      Of course, when I mentioned Cuba, I did so because it is a classic example of socialism run amok,

      And yet, it is doing *better* than some of its neighbors, *despite* an embargo. Hence, it's a *bad example*. Get my point?

      "We have to invent 21st century socialism..."

      Finally, a well-defended point. :)

      Yeah, until Saddam, heavily in debt and running out of economic options (given his spending on Kurd-killing, Iran-attacking, and palace building) decided to invade Kuwait...

      No. Right up to the 2003 invasion, we were the largest importer of Iraqi oil. 44.5% in 2001 (the last year I have numbers for on-hand), compared to, say, 8% for France.

      And just to address a few of the new things you've newly raised: PUK had openly sided with Iran in the Iran-Iraq war (the problem should be with the indiscriminate nature of the campaign, not that Kurds were targetted); Saddam's palace spending was less per-GDP than the royal families in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (both US allies); and the invasion of Kuwait was a much more complicated geopolitical issue than is normally presented (if you want to get into it, it will take a bit - just let me know; if not, simply skip over this)

      and subsequently renegged on every agreement he uttered

      Oh, like the whole getting out of Kuwait thing? The whole getting rid of WMDs thing? Etc? Come on, you know that was a false generality.

      including the terms of his oil sales through the UN... though I'm sure you can follow the trail on that one, including the huge objections from the French, now for very obvious reasons

      Ah, yes, the French were interested in their annual 1.5b$ with Iraq more than their ~50b$ annual trade with the US. Sure, that passes a basic logic test there ;) France's not wanting a war with Iraq, etc, couldn't have anything to do with 3/4 of their people holding the same view - certainly not. I mean, it's not like it's a democracy or anything.(/sarcasm)

      And what exactly does France, specifically, have to do with OFF? The list of companies that paid kickbacks spans the globe, including the both France AND the US. And if we were so concerned, why didn't we block contracts? Contrary to popular belief, the 661 committee that was in charge of contract approval was, by its charter, only allowed to deny contracts on the grounds of attempt to import banned goods. The SC had the authority to block contracts on any grounds; however, we rarely did. The 661 committee actually raised concerns about possible kickbacks on two separate occasions to the SC. Of course, the kickbacks only covered 2-3B$; oil smuggling was a much larger portion, which wasn't covered at all by the 661 committee, and was tacitly accepted by many countries, including the US (references available on request) in order to pl

      --
      Don't take a knife to a gunfight, or even a knife to a knife fight. Take a gun to a knife fight.
    16. Re:Political, rather then merit-based alignment by Singletoned · · Score: 1
      Very beautifully and intelligently put.

      "Democracy != Pro America. Democracy != Capitalism. Democracy != American"

      I think people keep forgetting that America is not a democracy but a republic. IIRC the constitution specifically mentions that it is not a democracy but a republic. They are not really the best people to be 'spreading democracy' throughout the world, which I think is the main reason the British goverment support them in their various invasions. To make sure they have someone along who knows what they're doing.

  13. Why shouldn't Microsoft pursue a patent strategy? by lpp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft exists as a business entity. They offer an OS with arguably the most exposure of any OS, one many folks associated directly with general computer use. They offer a number of other products which tie in to, add to and build upon that OS and it's market share.

    Why then shouldn't they go ahead and pursue a patent attack strategy in order to crush what they see as the competition? They are bound only to act within the confines of the law. There is no legal reason why they should play nice.

    I'm not saying this because I like the possibility, but rather because if Linux supporters can come up with a cogent response to the question and present it to Microsoft in a manner likely to be received without substantial hostility (i.e. something different from "Don't use patents you m!@#$!@# a$$hatz"), then perhaps Microsoft would avoid this approach.

  14. Oxymoron buzzword of the year by suso · · Score: 4, Funny

    inevitable uncertainties

    1. Re:Oxymoron buzzword of the year by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      Not really an oxymoron so much as a statement of the obvious. Or just an attempt to enbiggen the word future.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  15. Release date for desktop Linux revealed! by Nine+Tenths+of+The+W · · Score: 3, Funny

    They've finally set a date - it's going to coincide with the release of Duke Nukem Forever.

    --
    Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
    1. Re:Release date for desktop Linux revealed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  16. Troll??? by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 1

    Isn't this typical...

    I point out (correctly) that non-subscribers couldn't even see the material until they were cleared to post to it, and suddenly I'm a 'troll'.

    Last time I try to be helpful.

    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    1. Re:Troll??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Last time I try to be helpful.
      Oh gee whatever are we to do without your sagely advice. You've been here for, hmm.. must be 2 weeks or so given your UID?

      Do us all a favor and go read http://www.cnn.com/TECH/ which is more your pace.

      And oh, yeah... STFU :p
    2. Re:Troll??? by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 1

      You've been here for, hmm.. must be 2 weeks or so given your UID?

      While this UID has been here about that long, I've been part of the Slashdot community (in various guises), since 1998.

      You've got some nerve pointing out my UID, however...considering you don't seem to have one.

      Either you don't have one, which means you don't matter,
      or you have one, but are afraid to reveal it to me, which means you don't matter.

      Either way do us all a favor and go read http://timecube.com/ which is undoubtedly more your pace.

      TMonk out.

      --
      ____

      ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    3. Re:Troll??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      While this UID has been here about that long, I've been part of the Slashdot community (in various guises), since 1998.
      I don't doubt that you've had to change identities...

      ...MANY times.

      I'd be embarassed to be you, really I would. I'm AC for a reason, please think about it a little and make the common sense choice: fade into obscurity... again.
    4. Re:Troll??? by Steve+Embalmer · · Score: 0

      Part of the Slashdot community? Hmmm, smells funny to me.

    5. Re:Troll??? by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 1

      I don't doubt that you've had to change identities... ...MANY times.

      Yes, I admit it...I have a habit of forgetting my username or password (oh, the shame).

      I'm AC for a reason

      A reason which you continually make apparent.
      Thanks for playing.

      Gee, having a foe is ever so much fun...I only wish he/she actually had an identity here so I could point and say 'hey look...that's the person who doesn't like me for some reason'...but apparently you're more comfortable behind the shroud of anonymity. A shame, really.

      --
      ____

      ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

  17. Article text by Nine+Tenths+of+The+W · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Oh, wait, never mind.

    --
    Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
  18. Groklaw by zeitgeist_chaser · · Score: 3, Insightful
    While mainstream media coverage of SCO has varied widely -- sometimes accurate, sometimes resembling coverage of the OJ Simpson trial -- Groklaw has emerged as a steady voice of reason and objectivity adeptly defusing all attempts at "FUD" PR around the case.
    While Groklaw's coverage of the SCO case has been the most thorough and detailed, it has hardly been objective. There has been virulent anti-SCO sentiment on that site from the very beginning of the case. That may be a reasonable attitude, but it is hardly objective.
    --
    While thinking philosophically, we see problems in places where there are none. -Wittgenstein
    1. Re:Groklaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, no, no, you've got it all wrong. In the past, "objective" meant, roughly, "without bias or opinion." But today, every issue is black and white. Everything is politicized. You are with us or without us. Just look at the recent rebuttal to the Brittanica ex-editor regarding Wikipedia; the ex-editor argued against some of the merits of Wikipedia, so automatically he was AGAINST the community and THEREFORE he DIRECTLY SUPPORTS Bill Gates, George Bush, and Darl McBride. There is no room for debate anymore; all issues have been decided conclusively. Linux is perfect, Liberals aren't corrupt too, and SCO has committed the world's most ultimate injustice in at least the last 200 years.

      Today, "reason and objectivity" means "agrees with me", or more accurately, "agrees with whatever is fashionable." In this case, what is fashionable in this community is probably what is correct, but don't you dare offer a dissenting opinion lest you be cast from society, forever to be associated with "them."

    2. Re:Groklaw by jbolden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Can you give one example where Groklaw has:

      a) lied
      b) misled
      c) refused to reveal uncomfortable facts for IBM (like when a ruling goes against it).

      I guess if objectivity is defined as complete neutrality with no concern for truth at all then Groklaw has failed. I, along with most other people, was shocked when this case started at how weak SCO's case was. As time has gone on its gotten even weaker. The judge himself indicated that SCO has not managed in this time to create a single disputed fact; how can Groklaw be detailed and still take SCO seriously?

    3. Re:Groklaw by omb · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      Frankly, Sir, You are a shill

      I for one, am getting increasingly impatient of non-insigntful nay idiot posts here.

      Grocklaw has been very careful to be impartial and objective, and deserves much credit for simplyfing the legal smoke

      As one who views the gross mal-practise which happens daily in the US courts, at all levels, and which serves, uniformly to deny the people justice as a disgrace

      The US Constitution, the US legal institutions, all the laws enacted by the Congress are a model to the entire world; the way the bar and the courts have beaurocratized and administer justice is a public disgrace.

      You need a good Attorney General and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, at the same time, and sadly the health of the distinguished Chief Justice Renquist. is, in this case, a block to reform.

      It is famously said that "Justice delayed is Justice denied."

      SCO should have been in and out of court, dismissed, within a month.

      The plaintiff produced NO EVIDENCE, 0, nada; still hasn't: this is normally prima facie evidence of a frivolous, vexatious or abuse of process compliant and will normally have the action struck out at first hearing before a Master (atin the UK).

    4. Re:Groklaw by omb · · Score: 1
      May be this post is insightful!

      The poster uses the word 'objective' which is a weasle word of the main-stream-media as an alernative to 'balanced'. That is a cowardly refusal to take a side

      One of the successes of modern educators in the US has been to blur the difference between 'objective', these are the reason I believe this, here are the sources, data, references, evidence... and 'subjective' ie I believ this and feel this way...

      Objective judgement is vital in a scientific, rational and well-run society.

    5. Re:Groklaw by zeitgeist_chaser · · Score: 1

      You don't have to be misleading or a liar to lack objectivity. There seems to be an assumption that I believe that Groklaw has failed in their attempts to cover the SCO case. As I stated earlier, PJ's coverage of the case is the most detailed, informative, and thorough on the net, IMHO. In order for her coverage to be objective, however, she would need to stick to just the facts of the case and her legal interpretations thereof. Groklaw's coverage is filled with plenty of nasty language directed at SCO, conjectures on the motives of it's executives, and flat-out anti-SCO sentiment. I, and most of the IT community, agree with the Groklaw articles, but to call them "objective" is disingenuous.

      --
      While thinking philosophically, we see problems in places where there are none. -Wittgenstein
    6. Re:Groklaw by FunWithHeadlines · · Score: 1
      And that's what makes Groklaw so great. You can get the facts anywhere, but PJ is able to translate law (and some tech) into language that is accessible to anyone. That allows the lightbulbs to go off for a lot more people than would be possible if people were just reading the court briefs.

      And if ever there was a company and its actions that deserved "nasty language," it's SCO. And if ever a company inspired "conjectures on the motives of its executives," it's SCO. If ever there was a company that deserved "flat-out anti-" sentiment, it's SCO. I am so very grateful that PJ is not "objective." This was a case that called out for facts and interpretation of the law, not blind objectivity.

    7. Re:Groklaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Mod parent up! This is basically the state of affairs in the software industry, and it is sickening.

    8. Re:Groklaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Groklaw provides lots of opinions without really backing them all up. There is speculation and even subtle FUD at times. Groklaw is a good resource, but it needs to be read with an open mind.

    9. Re:Groklaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Groklaw has been factually correct, but that doesn't mean they're objective.

      SCO is so obviously wrong that the speculation of motivation, colorful comparisons and other emotional commentaries are entirely unnecessary.

      An objective source would have to be dispassionate in the style of commentary. PJs style is very much conversational and emotional, which I don't particularly like, even though I agree with her.

  19. We really are in a beautiful place. by PHAEDRU5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm going to JBoss World tomorrow and Wednesday.

    Four yearas ago, if I'd said you could generate enterprise-level solutions with open source code, I'd have been laughed at.

    Now, with JBoss, and all that goes into it, I can deploy an all-singing, all-dancing J2EE application, for only the cost of the hardware.

    Drop in OpenReports, and you've got the complete package: Servlets/JSP/etc..., for the webby bits, JNLP and Swing for the interactive bits, and OpenReports for the bar-chart crowd.

    Add in Eclipse as your IDE, and you're good to go.

    The next challenge, will be to place this all in a neat little iconified environment so more-naive users can do really powerful things.

    --
    668: Neighbour of the Beast
    1. Re:We really are in a beautiful place. by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      Yeah rewind 5 more years before that. I used to tell people I run Linux. People say "run to where?"

    2. Re:We really are in a beautiful place. by avalys · · Score: 1

      Except when you realize that Eclipse is a disaster and Java is not open-source.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    3. Re:We really are in a beautiful place. by RhadamanthosIsChaos · · Score: 1

      IOh, I'm just wild about Mary, and Mary's just wild about me...

      --
      +++OUT OF CHEESE ERROR+++ REDO FROM START +++
    4. Re:We really are in a beautiful place. by RhadamanthosIsChaos · · Score: 1
      Stupid submit button, being right next to the preview button. Comment should read:

      I want all-singing all dancing software. It'd make a great screensaver.

      DC++! Hash my filelist!
      Oh, I'm just wild about Mary, and Mary's just wild about me...

      --
      +++OUT OF CHEESE ERROR+++ REDO FROM START +++
  20. WHAT? by Erwos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Groklaw was objective about SCO? You're joking, right?

    Of course, this follows with the stereotypical /. thinking that for news to be objective, it has to follow your opinions...

    -DMZ

    --
    Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
    1. Re:WHAT? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      Umm, that seems to be pretty much everyone's opinion. Very few people will read something against their opinion and say wow they're right but I'm not going to change my thoughts on the matter. You either agreed with it, start agreeing with it, or think it is biased in the other sides favor.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    2. Re:WHAT? by swillden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Groklaw was objective about SCO?

      Absolutely.

      You're joking, right?

      Not in the slightest.

      First, keep in mind that although contemporary journalism seems to have forgotten it, "objective" doesn't mean "balanced", it means "fact-based". "Balance" is the lazy reporter's poor substitute for research.

      PJ and most of the folks that post at Groklaw have a clear bias, but that doesn't change the fact that what they do is to acquire, publish and analyze objectively the facts of the cases. While there's no doubt which side the Groklawers want to win, they work hard at punching holes in both sides' arguments. They shoot down SCO's arguments because they want SCO to lose, and they poke holes in SCO's opponents' arguments because they want to strengthen them. But they definitely look hard at both sides, and no one can fault the quality or depth of their research. Court documents show that both SCO and its opponents follow Groklaw, and for good reason -- very little goes unnoticed there.

      Objectivity doesn't really have anything to do with lack of bias, because if a complete lack of bias were necessary, objectivity would be impossible. Objectivity is about looking past your biases to base your conclusions squarely on the facts available.

      Groklaw does a stellar job at objective reporting and analysis. If it seems that they demolish nearly all of SCO's arguments and claims while doing no more than knocking the rough edges off of SCO's opponents' arguments and claims, that's because SCO's arguments are weak and its attorneys poor (in skill -- they're doing fine financially).

      PJ does editorialize a bit, and that part of Groklaw is decidedly not objective, but that just keeps the site entertaining. Some Groklawers occasionally ask her to tone it down specifically to reduce these charges of non-objectivity, but anyone who seriously reads her articles can see the clear distinctions between fact, analysis, speculation and whimsy.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:WHAT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To me, objective implies dispassionate and unbiased in style (no mocking), not just factually correct.

      Like I wrote in another post, while I agree with her about SCO, I dislike PJs conversational, emotional style. If she'd separate those parts from the factual parts (perhaps writing comments as a follow-up to her own articles), I'd be willing to call Groklaw objective.

    4. Re:WHAT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.britannica.com/dictionary?book=Dictiona ry&va=objective&query=objective

      3 a : expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations

      And, of course, Groklaw doesn't distort the news.
      And that last remark, well, I don't recognize that in Slashdot.

  21. The Statue Of The Union: +1, Patriotic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    has been subjugated to the world's most dangerous and inarticulate leader

    Thanks for nothing,
    Kilgore Trout, CEO

  22. Re:Why shouldn't Microsoft pursue a patent strateg by kebes · · Score: 1

    You are right. As is often the case, seemingly "mean" or even "unethical" business practices should highlight not that companies are 'evil,' but rather that the laws should be reconsidered.

    MS has the ability (in terms of money and laws) to pursue these kinds of strategies. But if we the people do not like these strategies, we should strongly consider pushing for laws that force companies to act ethically.

  23. His brush is too wide by Ih8sG8s · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think many people (including me) would take offense to this guy packaging Opensource in with Free Software. He also takes the libery to call witness to the greatness of the opensouce development model.

    I realize that to many people, OSS and Free Software are synonymous. To those who fall squarely within either camp, the differences are meaningful enough to warrant the existence of two separate groups. This guy seems to fall into the OSS camp, which is fine and well, but one can't have their cake and eat someone else's.

    There are fundamental differences.

    1. Re:His brush is too wide by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 1

      There are fundamental differences.

      Is aqua blue?
      -russ

      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    2. Re:His brush is too wide by ptlis · · Score: 1

      I'd say aqua is a colour & blue is a category under which many colours fall - Free Software & Open Source Software are two categorys under which software can fall; all Free Software is Open Source but not all Open Source Software is Free.

      --
      There's mischief and malarkies but no queers or yids or darkies within this bastard's carnival, this vicious cabaret.
    3. Re:His brush is too wide by 2short · · Score: 1

      How can he be "packaging Opensource in with Free Software", when all "Free Software" is open source? Looks to me like he's just talking about open source in general (and a few related topics). The only evidence I see that he falls into the OSS camp is that he doesn't feel compelled to mention "Free Software" when discussing open source.

      Some, like myself, fall so squarely into the open source camp, that we don't consider "Free Software" a seperate group, but simply a sub-group with a political dimension that doesn't particularly interest me. Not that I hve any problem with others pursuing those politics if they like. (Except I do get a bit irked by the insistance on redefining "Free" to mean "only non-free in the ways we like").

    4. Re:His brush is too wide by Ih8sG8s · · Score: 1

      I don't disagree with your comments. I just personally felt that he was using the term "opensource" liberally, and to mean all software which may be considered opensource. He may think he is in a position to speak for opensource, and that's fine. The author though sppears to attempt to speak for free software as well, all though he fails to mention it specifically.

      Some in the free software camp will take offense to the fact that this author attempts to speak for all, when he is in no position to do so. I don;t mean to nitpick, but the title of the article is in reference to OSS specifically, but the commentary includes things which are specifically free software. He has overstepped his bounds.

  24. Re:Why shouldn't Microsoft pursue a patent strateg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    guess you never heard of being nice.

    i guess its okay to shove old ladies out of the way as long as you dont break the law.

  25. No. by temojen · · Score: 1

    Given a particle of which you have perfect knowlege of it's position, you can have no knowlege of it's velocity. This uncertainty is inevitable.

  26. Re:Why shouldn't Microsoft pursue a patent strateg by ArsonSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Why then shouldn't they go ahead and pursue a patent attack strategy in order to crush what they see as the competition? They are bound only to act within the confines of the law. There is no legal reason why they should play nice."

    I think they would be afraid of the fall out that could possibly occur. Linux has gained enough support that an all out attack on it would very possibly bring about an all out attack on software patents and copyright law, as well as more antitrust suits. Their empire would slowly crumble if either of these two things were pushed very hard.

    --
    Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  27. 2005 is the year and the goverment might help by moofdaddy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I predict that Open Source will come into its own in 2005. While it has hit some bumps and trouble along the way this year and in recent years, especially with microsoft's flagerant abuse of a number of linux patents, there is no question that the whole concept in general is gaining mass acceptance.

    I work in Washinton for one of the senators from Virginia and its interesting to see how even the legislature is starting to look at open source seriously. My boss, who sits on Ways and Means (the committe which is in charge of the budget) and a few of his friends have been talking amongst themselves and they are planning a number of hearings this year to discuss open source in general and more specifically as a way to save goverement money from going to huge software companies like M$ as a way to help cut some goverement spending.

    2005 will indeed be an interesting year to watch.

    --
    Be better in bed. Wikiafterdark!
    1. Re:2005 is the year and the goverment might help by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 1

      Wasn't VA the first state to pass the CBITA?

      Given that history of love for proprietary software companies, it is hard to imagine that there would not be sufficient campaign donor resistence to any consideration of free software.

    2. Re:2005 is the year and the goverment might help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS will go nuts offering goodies and discounts to keep gubmit contracts. No way they will ever let Linux get a foothold in USA government IT.

    3. Re:2005 is the year and the goverment might help by qbwiz · · Score: 1

      If you mean the UCITA, then yes.

      --
      Ewige Blumenkraft.
    4. Re:2005 is the year and the goverment might help by sgtrock · · Score: 1

      Too late. :)

    5. Re:2005 is the year and the goverment might help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The United States Senate does not have a Ways and Means Committee. Only the House of Representatives does.

  28. Yes. by suso · · Score: 1

    from m-w.com:

    inevitable: incapable of being avoided or evaded

    uncertain: not certain to occur

    1. Re:Yes. by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      uncertainties - more than one uncertainty, Plural of uncertainty.

      inevitable uncertainties - of these 20 uncertian items, some are inevitable to occure while some are not. There is no way to tell which are which.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    2. Re:Yes. by suso · · Score: 1

      oxymoron: a combination of contradictory or incongruous words (as cruel kindness); broadly : something (as a concept) that is made up of contradictory or incongruous elements.

      Duh! I get what Mark Stone was trying to say, but it was still an oxymoron. My calling it an oxymoron doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense, but just that its an oxymoron.

  29. Re:Why shouldn't Microsoft pursue a patent strateg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yup, and citizens^H^H^H^H^H^H^Honsumers only exist to make the good people richer. They could have made Civics Class 5 minutes long and still been 100% truthful.

  30. Re:Why shouldn't Microsoft pursue a patent strateg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MS has the ability (in terms of money and laws) to pursue these kinds of strategies. But if we the people do not like these strategies, we should strongly consider pushing for laws that force companies to act ethically.

    We can't even push for laws that keep companies from buying the legislators they need in order to do whatever they want, and you want us to write to our congresscritter to ask them kindly to not vote in favor of the big business interests that put them in power? Most of the letters probably wouldn't even make it past the staff without liberal amounts of cash in the envelope, and even then the letter will still wind up in the shredder.

  31. Re:OSX killed Linux about 3 years ago by TuringTest · · Score: 1

    So do you think that OpenUsability will NEVER achieve success?

    Always is such a long time...

    --
    Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
  32. GPL et al are not viral by swillden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's viral is copyright law. Mixing anyone's code with yours "infects" your code because it creates a derivative work. The only way you can legally do that with any copyrighted material is if you have permission from the owner (or fall into a Fair Use category).

    Some open source licenses grant a blanket permission to do that without any strings attached. Many (like the GPL) do not. Few commercial licenses provide that permission, and many of those that do require some sort of royalty payments.

    The GPL isn't viral, it just doesn't allow you to ignore the viral nature of copyright.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    1. Re:GPL et al are not viral by Joe+Enduser · · Score: 1

      I would like to propose a more correct qualification, which would be "vertile". Especially because copyright by default does not allow the proliferation of derivated works, while the GPL does.
      Speaking of the GPL as viral is fine, but then mankind is viral, too.

    2. Re:GPL et al are not viral by jbolden · · Score: 1

      I'm a fan of the GPL but lets be fair here. Most commercial software that is designed to be linked to other software has very generous terms for the derived works. The GPL's rules are unusual strict for software.

    3. Re:GPL et al are not viral by zerblat · · Score: 1
      Most commercial software that is designed to be linked to other software has very generous terms for the derived works.
      Generous as in can be modified and distributed freely? (I'm assuming that by "commercial software" you mean proprietary software.)
      --
      Please alter my pants as fashion dictates.
    4. Re:GPL et al are not viral by swillden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most commercial software that is designed to be linked to other software has very generous terms for the derived works.

      There are lots of development tools and libraries whose licenses do provide very generous terms for derived works, but there are lots that do not, as well, particularly libraries for niche applications. I've seen libraries that require you to pay the company you're licensing them from a percentage of any revenue you make off of anything you do with their product, for example, and some that even require you to clear any use with them to make sure that you're not going to be competing with them.

      And even though many commercial libraries don't place a lot of restrictions on what you can do with the derivative works, nearly all of them place some fairly severe constraints on how you can create those derivative works -- specifically, that you must purchase one license for each and every developer who will use it. The GPL is very liberal about that side of it.

      The GPL's rules are unusual strict for software.

      Most GPL software is not "designed to be linked to other software". Most GPL software is application software, intended to run on its own. Within that space, applications, OS kernels, etc., the GPL is extremely generous compared to commercial offerings (most of whom not only don't give you permission to create derived works, but don't give you the source and require you to agree not to reverse engineer it!).

      Many (maybe most) open source libraries are not GPL, but LGPL or another less-restrictive variant.

      I suppose that among GUI toolkits, Qt is probably fairly unique in its use of a derivative-restricting license (GPL). Clearly, Trolltech has good reasons for choosing that path.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    5. Re:GPL et al are not viral by corblix · · Score: 1
      What's viral is copyright law. ... The GPL isn't viral, it just doesn't allow you to ignore the viral nature of copyright.

      Nope. I quote from the GPL, v. 2, section 6:

      Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to these terms and conditions.
      That's viral. "Viral" means that licensing terms are applied to derivative or collective works as well as the original.

      Thus, a traditional license in which the licensor claims ownership of derivative works, would be a viral license (yes this would be legal; as licensee, you would not have to agree to these terms, but if you did, then you did). And the GPL is viral. The LGPL is not viral. Neither is the BSD license, the Boost license, etc. And neither are most traditional non-transferable licenses, since they explicitly disallow derivative works.

      Copyright law on the other hand, covers all works, including those with viral licenses, like the GPL, and those with non-viral licenses, like the LGPL. Thus, copyright law is neither "viral" nor "non-viral".

    6. Re:GPL et al are not viral by spitzak · · Score: 1

      "Viral" is usually taken to mean it "infects" other work". This is not true of the GPL. If you use some GPL code to implement part of your program, you can still seperate it by removing that part, and your program is NOT "infected". The only true "viral" license would be NDA's that require you to not work on competitive products. These require signing contracts to be enforcable, so no GPL or EULA or anything else anybody would normally encouter counts.

      If "the rules apply to the copy" is what you mean by "viral" than all traditionally-copyrighted work is "viral". If I make a copy of a book under some sort of fair-use rule and give it to you, that does not mean you are free to make unlimited copies from that. The copyright has "infected" the copy.

    7. Re:GPL et al are not viral by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Yes generous in that sense... You create an executable parts of the libraries are linked in and the derived work can be distributed under whatever terms you like. For example the evil empire makes it pretty easy to get the .Net frameworks onto any client computer how to distribute .NET.

    8. Re:GPL et al are not viral by jbolden · · Score: 1

      (most of whom not only don't give you permission to create derived works

      I agree with most everything you wrote. However I should point the courts have held again and again and again you don't permission to create a derivied work. You simply need to purchase one license per... for example clean flicks buys one copy of the movie for each copy they create. Hollywood tried to shut them down but they won the lawsuits easily.

      Also a minor quibble
      And even though many commercial libraries don't place a lot of restrictions on what you can do with the derivative works, nearly all of them place some fairly severe constraints on how you can create those derivative works -- specifically, that you must purchase one license for each and every developer who will use it. The GPL is very liberal about that side of it.

      Technically with a GPLed work you have one license for each developer (actually for each copy of the library) as well. It just so happens that these licenses are free and you can self issue them.

    9. Re:GPL et al are not viral by corblix · · Score: 1
      "Viral" is usually taken to mean it "infects" other work". This is not true of the GPL.

      Note that you're not really arguing about facts here, but about the definition of the word "viral".

      If "viral" is taken to mean that the same licensing conditions apply to derivative works, then the GPL is viral. On the other hand, if "viral" is taken to mean you are somehow forced to apply the same licensing conditions to whatever else you create, then obviously the GPL is not viral.

      Which is the "usual" sense? Depends on whom you hang out with. I did a quick Google for GPL Viral, tossing out dup's, broken links, and non-English pages. In the first two pages of hits, I found 7 that are making essentially my argument, 4 that are making essentially yours, and 3 that seem to be trying to weigh things impartially.

      So I win on that basis. :-) Of course, one can argue that a big chunk of the people using the word in my sense are either journalists who don't know a software license from a dump truck, or else microsoft PR people. That's probably true, so maybe you win.

      Perhaps the real problems here are (1) "viral" is a rather pejorative term, often used by people who are fighting the Free Software movement, and (2) Free Software people are notoriously touchy and dogmatic, many of them having zero tolerance for any criticism (even implied criticism) of his holiness RMS, forever blessed, and his perfect revelation, the GPL.

      Well, fine, but the property of the GPL that extends identical licensing terms to derivative works is interesting and noteworthy. We need a word to use to talk about that. If not "viral", then what?

    10. Re:GPL et al are not viral by spitzak · · Score: 1

      You are certainly right that "viral" is often used to mean "what differs the GPL from other copyright exceptions".

      The problem is that it is impossible to define "viral" as any actual part of the GPL and still make it something that uniquely describes it and does not cover all meaningful copyrights. A copyright exception that allowed you more rights if you are using a copy than if you are using the original is just silly, but that is the only way to make it not be "viral".

    11. Re:GPL et al are not viral by corblix · · Score: 1
      A copyright exception that allowed you more rights if you are using a copy than if you are using the original is just silly, but that is the only way to make it not be "viral".

      Replace "copy" by "derived work". Isn't that what the LGPL does?

  33. What's wrong with Americans? by northcat · · Score: 1

    Can't they write even one sentence without bashing China? Even in an article meant for an international audience?

  34. Re:Why shouldn't Microsoft pursue a patent strateg by lpp · · Score: 1

    To respond to folks who seem to think I'm in favor of Microsoft "not playing nice" and basically crucifying any and all competition, I personally think it's not nice to compete on other than the merits. I can't say it's immoral or unethical, but it certainly doesn't pass muster as nice, and I think in the long run, maintaining such a posture will hurt their image enough to be a bad strategy.

    The point of my original post, however, was not to outline what I thought they should do, but instead to point out that a) Microsoft acts as a corporate entity out to protect its interests and b) anyone wishing to change their behavior has to provide Microsoft a reason to want to change.

    Most folks discuss how it's wrong of them to do what they do, they heckle and deride them for their actions, but in the end Microsoft doesn't care what Linux users have said about them. They care about what affects their bottom line. They might even care about long term factors or unquantifiable factors. But until they are convinced that they want to act differently from how they currently act, they will continue to act as they have always acted.

  35. Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Informative

    And Monodevelop is not, at it's current point, usable.

    It works fine for little "Hello World" apps, but once my project got to a small-mid size (6 or 7 files, about 1000 lines each), it slowed to a crawl. It took minutes to register each keystroke. I turned off the command-completion engine, thinking it was to blame - it wasn't. It seems to be whatever code that constantly rebuilds the class tree?

    Whatever it is, it's unusable. I had to migrate my project back to Windows-land and do my work in SharpDevelop. Now, for whatever reason, Monodevelop won't even open my SharpDevelop cmbx file.

    This is a big, BIG deal. My company, like so many others, has tons of old VB/Delphi and other Windows-RAD based code, all powered by SQL Server backends.

    It's time to migrate most of this stuff to .NET. I actually managed to convince the brass that we avoid WinForms, and use GTK# to build our GUIs. I actually convinced them that we can support Sybase as well as SQL Server, being as the T-SQL is similar enough it won't involve any rewriting for us.

    Did TFA mention FREE (beer) Sybase ASE for linux? A SQL Server killer - heck it is SQL Server - is HUGE. I've worked with MySQL, PostgreSQL, firebird, and they are all toy databases.

    Sybase+Mono= a whole hell of a lot of people, and a whole lot of source code that was once very MS-specific, that can now be opened up to other platforms.

    Anyhow, the brass were impressed when I showed them how the same executable runs under Windows, Linux, Solaris, etc, etc - and unlike Java, it looks and feels like our old application, not a kludgy pile of crap (Java evangelists need not reply, I've yet to be convinced. AWT sucks just like Swing. We simply have no use for the platform, get over it.)

    The brass were blown away when I mocked up a little box, with Sybase built in, to run as a terminal server via NX - NX is cool as hell. Blows MS Terminal Services and Citrix right out of the water. When I told them the machine they were using was sitting at my home, and they were working over my home connections measly 128k upstream, hell - you just can't help but be impressed.

    So now I'm at the point where they're actually considering linux. All of our apps on a linux-based self-contained blade server, complete turnkey for clients. It's about giving the client what they want, after all, and that's what they want. A box they plug in and does its job. (With a quarter mil per annum support agreement, and as we all know, once properly set up, there ain't shit to support).

    So now I'm tasked with putting together an environment with which to work with the stuff/crosstest under linux. And I'm short one IDE.

    It'll get there eventually, I'm sure. Just get your ass back to work Miguel. Actually, scratch that, finish your GTK# documentation first - or at least fix the goddamned hyperlink to it. There's plenty of great stuff in those namespaces (gtk, pango, etc), but to someone like me with no real prior experience with GTK, figuring it out can be a real bitch - though not impossible, but so far the process has been for me to read some C documentation, figure out the C# binding by way of autocompletion, and guess at the parameters.

    This year was big, but IMO, Mono and Sybase were the two biggest things to hit the scene. I don't know if NX counts as this year or not, but if it does, it's a big thing too.

    Note to any Gentoo users fighting to get Sybase to work: Nothing I found on google helped, installing Red Hat 7.2 under UML and installing sybase on that didn't work. ASE did nothing but segfault until I switched to NPTL, now it runs like a champ. (emerge unmerge linux-headers; emerge --oneshot linux26-headers; emerge glibc; reboot). This is probably applicable to other uncertified distros too.

    Also, anyone know of any good free as in I'm-broke SQL Server->Sybase ASE migration tools? For years the flow has been 100% the other way, people ditching their big proprietary uni

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by ratboy666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Isn't the promise of C# to allow you to develop using Windows and deploy on Linux?

      And, if that's the case, why bother with a "Mono IDE"?

      Honestly curious here -- I am more in the Java camp - develop on Linux, Windows, or Solaris, and deploy J2ME on Cell Phones.
      Also, develop on Linux, and deploy on Windows.

      I have been thinking about the whole C# and Mono thing; and am almost ready to give it a whirl.

      Ratboy.

      --
      Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
    2. Re:Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by fdrebin · · Score: 1

      Toy databases?

      Oh crap, are all those thousands of people whose lives depend on those toy databases in our application gonna die now?
      Of course, I always thought *SQL Server* was the toy database, but what do I know? - but at least I'll admit to what I don't know.
      Imagine writing all that otherwise apparently useful and informative commentary then blowing your credibility right out the door. Ouch.

      Realistically, our perceptions are often colored by our current environment, which is very easy to forget. Seems to be the case here...

      --
      Stupidity... has a habit of getting its way.
    3. Re:Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by tcopeland · · Score: 2, Informative

      > I've worked with [..] PostgreSQL, and they are
      > all toy databases.

      Fujitsu disagrees with that.

    4. Re:Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      Well, just like java, it's develop once, test everywhere.

      If something goes wrong when it's on linux, it's nice to have an IDE with a nice integrated debugger to figure out what the problem is.

      It's not Java though, and franky a "one executable for everyone" solution really isn't practical. Eventually the project will fork out of necessity (ie; some users absolutely demand Visio support and MS Office integration, whereas linux users might demand OO.o and [drawing package] instead.)

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    5. Re:Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      Kid, wake me when mysql supports true ACID transactions in the stable branch, and uses something that at least resembles standard SQL.

      It is not an enterprise solution. It is a toy. The fact that it works has nothing to do with it. You have to be able to guarantee it will work.

      I've yet to see mysql anywhere in any cities' comm center that I've been in. I don't know whos life depends on it, but it's not American citizens. (I do 911 dispatch and police records systems for a living, there's a whole level of reliability that none of the free solutions are anywhere close to)

      Realistically, our perceptions are often colored by our current environment, which is very easy to forget. Seems to be the case here...

      Couldn't agree more. When will slashbots get the "if its free it must be better" crap out of their heads? Do you even know that SQL Server has a unix legacy much much MUCH longer than mysql? Did you know that SQL Server is no more than a Windows port of Sybase ASE?

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    6. Re:Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wake me when mysql supports true ACID transactions in the stable branchIt does right now. Read up on the InnoDB storage engine.

    7. Re:Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      Fujitsu can wake me when Postgre can scale to the same levels that SybaseASE/SQL Server or Oracle can.

      I'm talking about terabytes spread across multiple machines, that needs to be accessed in real time (or as close to it as possible), and not some trivial contact list or customer database.

      Postgre and mysql simply aren't replacements for Sybase/Oracle in many situations. They aren't even meant to be.

      I like postgre, and I like it's object-relational features. But it just doesn't cut it in the work I do. People need to get over themselves. Some kids Pokemon fan-forum or some companies inventory system are lightyears away from, say, the dispatching system for the NYPD.

      And as much as anectodal data doesn't mean anything, I see more mysql errors than 404 errors when browsing the web. If it's such a great package, is it just that every linux DBA sucks? (I know, you're defending postgre, but what's the difference).

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    8. Re:Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      If you got that kind of time on your hands, I suppose that's acceptable. InnoDB is slow in my experience. Maybe it's not now.

      At any rate, it's still new and not really "battle tested", and it'll be years before any of my clients are willing to risk their cities' 911 systems (and their own personal asses) on it.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    9. Re:Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by tcopeland · · Score: 1

      > Postgre [..] simply aren't replacements for
      > Sybase/Oracle in many situations

      Actually, having worked on many government projects, I'd say the opposite - there are _many_ situations for which PostgreSQL is a perfect replacement for Sybase or Oracle. I've seen govt project leads buy Oracle and a 4X Sun server to run a couple thousand queries a day on a few hundred MB of data. PostgreSQL could handle much more than that without breaking a sweat.

      > I see more mysql errors than 404 errors

      Sure, because there's a low barrier of entry to setting up a MySQL server behind Apache. That's like criticizing empty projects on Sourceforge... fish in a barrel.

    10. Re:Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by Aldric · · Score: 1
      MySQL powers a fairly large chunk of the internet so of course you're going to see some MySQL errors.

      I was unable to access part of a site due to MS SQL deadlock errors a few weeks. Why is this relevent? It was part of microsoft.com*! Surely they know how to use their own database server.

      * The order system that lets you download the beta of Windows XP 64-bit.
    11. Re:Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by LarsWestergren · · Score: 1

      Java evangelists need not reply, I've yet to be convinced.

      Oh, aren't you a tease. On one hand you say we can't reply, and on the other you say "I've YET to be convinced". :-)

      You should have been honest and said "I will NEVER be convinced", since that is what you mean, right? Nice to see you keep an open mind though.

      So consider this not directed at you, but at all the other readers:
      You can use SWT, gcc, or one of the many bindings from java to native widgets that exist.

      --

      Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die

    12. Re:Mono is dead until theres a usable IDE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's gotten faster...Slashdot runs on InnoDB now. And I'm pretty sure Microsoft has a disclaimer saying it's not for use when lives are at stake.

      Don't get me wrong, I use MS SQL at work and like it. I do really wish it had Oracle-style row versioning...we had major headaches due to locking issues. Big transactional database, needing access to big lookup tables to build transactions (medical referrals), and those tables needing to be frequently mass-updated...row versioning would have helped a lot. InnoDB has it. I haven't tried MySQL in production yet, just bought the manuals recently and looking forward to trying it out.

  36. No. by Skater · · Score: 1

    He was using it in the sense of "risks". Inevitable risks.

  37. Re:Why shouldn't Microsoft pursue a patent strateg by ashSlash · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With the number of government organisations, military, schools etc already using OSS, Microsoft would have a real shit-fight on their hands.

    They'd also go down in history as being Very Bad People and attract even more ill-will, from regular computer users in above organisations.

    Before they ever attempt a patent attack, they have to win over the hearts and minds of the public to their view of software patents. I guess Gates' stabs at 'Communism' among the OSS movement were an early step in this direction.

  38. Re:Why shouldn't Microsoft pursue a patent strateg by micromoog · · Score: 1
    Why then shouldn't they go ahead and pursue a patent attack strategy in order to crush what they see as the competition? They are bound only to act within the confines of the law. There is no legal reason why they should play nice.

    You're correct. This is exactly why business must be regulated and restricted by the government; corporations by design use law as a surrogate for ethics.

  39. Desktop Linux is still nowhere by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 1

    Hmm, status on Desktop Linux is conspicuously missing.

    So when are commercial app developers going to release Linux versions of their apps along with Windows versions?

    Until that question can be answered, Desktop Linux will continue to be a theoretical possibility with almost zero marketshare. No one cares about operating systems; the applications are everything.

    --
    Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    1. Re:Desktop Linux is still nowhere by SunFan · · Score: 1


      Desktop Linux is actually quite good. Good enough that Novell, Sun, Linspire, Xandros, etc. are selling, right now, products directed towards home users and regular business users.

      For a much much lower per-seat licensing cost than Microsoft can offer, a business can equip their employees with a good well-integrated GUI, StarOffice/OpenOffice.org, Evolution, Mozilla/Firefox, and tons of other stuff. Seriously, what do businesses really need beyond StarOffice/OO.org, Evolution, and Firefox, especially when they can save hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in expenses?

      Microsoft's strategic advantage is waning pretty quickly, IMO.

      --
      -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
    2. Re:Desktop Linux is still nowhere by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 1

      If no one uses anything beyond a browser, etc, who buys all the apps from these third parties? Does no one buy any of the enormous quantity of shrink-wrapped software at your local store?

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    3. Re:Desktop Linux is still nowhere by SunFan · · Score: 1

      Does no one buy any of the enormous quantity of shrink-wrapped software at your local store?

      The availability of third-party software for Linux desktops is increasing. There are a number of modern games released for Linux. Moneydance is a personal finance manager that is a Quicken replacement. Of course, there is little room for Norton and McAffee, but I'm sure they'll figure out a way to make money on Linux/UNIX. Anything written in Java should work in Linux, too.

      While those piles of $3 junkware at dollar stores are probably useless, the other domains of Windows-only software are slowly shrinking, I think. The ultimate verification of this trend will be when companies like Adobe cave in (beyond Acrobat Reader).

      --
      -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
  40. Wrong about Internet Explorer by JimDabell · · Score: 2, Informative

    Microsoft has refused to significantly update Internet Explorer (IE) until Longhorn is released

    Internet Explorer 7 will be available for Windows XP.

  41. I've gotten to used to Bush by focitrixilous+P · · Score: 0, Troll

    I was looking for "And may Stallman continue to bless Open Source" at the end. And it just didn't read the same without frequant, akward pauses.

    --
    SAILING MISHAP
  42. Eclipse is a disaster? How so? by PHAEDRU5 · · Score: 1

    I use it every day. Mostly it's fine with me.

    --
    668: Neighbour of the Beast
  43. Evil Idea: Reverse Class Action by wse7k · · Score: 1

    Is there such a thing as a reverse class action lawsuit(RCAL?)?

    Imagine this:
    RIAA files an RCAL against the class of people who "have traded copyrighted files on the internet without permission". RIAA wins, because they are legally correct. Then you run ads on TV like:

    "Have you traded songs on the internet? You may be entitled to compensate up to ONE MILLION DOLLARS! Call Schwarz & Lloyd! (374)867-5309. Call now and gets whats coming to you!"

    People call, RIAA laughs until it cries about how stupid people are.

    Who thinks people would call?

    --
    foon!
  44. Hey Balmer. by rbochan · · Score: 1

    Name them.

    --
    ...Rob
    The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
    1. Re:Hey Balmer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This FUD was served to Ballmer on a silver plate by Bruce Perens, PJ and their little bogo-insurance scam. So, if you grease Brucey's palms a little, he might tell you WTF he's talking about.

  45. You keep using that word... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Objective is the opposite of subjective. Subjective things are those that consist primarily of opinion, in which there are rarely any "right" or "wrong" answers, but things are primarily matters of taste. Objective things are those centered or focused on facts.

    So while you would be correct that PJ has long held a subjective opionion that SCO is talking nonsense about the courts, she primarily comes out with hard, objective facts (e.g. the court filings, quotes from SCO, interviews & transcripts) which makes the site, on the balance, objective.

    Bias is generally measured by a person relative to that person's own opinion. It is not unreasonable after hearing all the stories to favour one account over another. In that way, bias is not the same as prejudice. Prejudice, being when one forms an opinion before the facts are all in, is bad. Becoming biased against someone because they've constantly lied to you and you can prove it from their own words, can scarcely be considered unreasonable, illogical, or even in bad form.

    Therefore, I submit that Groklaw is objective in that its focus is upon providing the court documents whereby one can make up one's own mind, though the commentary is at times subjective, and many readers there (myself included) have become biased against SCO due to its inconsistant statements over the course of this litigation--a great many of which are conveniently documented on Groklaw in a thoroughly objective manner.

    At least, that's my opinion.

  46. Re:Why shouldn't Microsoft pursue a patent strateg by gr8_phk · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Why then shouldn't they go ahead and pursue a patent attack strategy in order to crush what they see as the competition?"

    Perhaps they should. However, a common theme on slashdot is how broken the patent system is. Trivial things are patented every day that demonstrate the system not working the way it was intended. Sometimes companies fight over silly patents and it can be fun to watch one big company screw with another one (which might have done the same if it could) and comment on the system. Free software (and OSS too) are usually not corporate developments, a full Linux distribution is the product of thousands of people working for over a decade to develop. FLOSS represents a lot of different things to a lot of people, so to see it crushed by MS utilizing the broken patent system would be a travesty on a global scale.

    My guess is that's one reason MS hasn't tried to actually play the patent card against linux. It wouldn't be money attacking money, it would be very big money attacking the people (really bad PR). This would be unprecedented, so there is great uncertainty with it. Also, with governments and business around the world considering OSS, this kind of attack would make legislators question the very patent system such an attack would rely upon. Imagine using patents to go after Linux, with the result that the rules change - or get repealed - so that you can't use them against other companies either. No one knows what would happen if MS attacked Linux with patents, but all effects other than defeating Linux would likely be negative.

    Either that, or they are waiting for legalization of software patents in Europe...

  47. of course they can't capitalize on it... by 42Penguins · · Score: 1

    "the open source development model remains a mysterious process on which large technology companies struggle to capitalize."

    how do you capitalize on free/open source?

    1. Re:of course they can't capitalize on it... by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      I don't know. Hell, you didn't capitalize anything in that entire post!

  48. Prior art by jbolden · · Score: 1

    Microsoft patents might be subjected to the same kind of scrutiny that SCO's claims were. To get a patent requires showing a lack of prior art. Microsoft might find all or almost all of their patents tossed based on prior art issues.

  49. Stumping for non-free software to lower costs. by jbn-o · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My boss, who sits on Ways and Means (the committe which is in charge of the budget) and a few of his friends have been talking amongst themselves and they are planning a number of hearings this year to discuss open source in general and more specifically as a way to save goverement money from going to huge software companies like M$ as a way to help cut some goverement spending.

    That's a real shame because it means that they have genuinely taken in the watered-down message the open source movement promotes--that we should weigh software issues not on ethics or freedom, but on cost of development, distribution, and even (ironically) settle for proprietary software when it is technically more functional than an "open source" competitor. The open source movement pitches this message because they're chiefly speaking to businesses and they believe any freedom talk will interfere with conveying their development methodology message to businesses.

    As such, if the US Government is doing what you describe, they're probably just using that talk to get Microsoft to drop its price on the software it licenses to the US Government. Other countries and US states have done this before, and it will be done again. Lowering the cost of Microsoft software is probably the reason why Massachusetts allowed Microsoft's proprietary Office formats to be included as an "open format". There's no part of the open source movement's message a proprietor can't cater to, so proprietors love to frame the issues at hand as the open source movement discusses them.

    Better to focus on software freedom, which the free software movement has been pitching for over a decade longer than the open source movement has been touting their message. Those who want software freedom for its own sake never have to settle for stumping for non-free software because the free software message doesn't focus on a development methodology to make development cheaper, faster, and produce less buggy software. The free software movement centers on giving computer users the freedom to run, inspect, share, and modify computer software. The open source movement's goals are fine as far as they go, but they don't go far enough. They say nothing about the most important question we can ask: how should we treat other people? This is an ethical question which demands an ethical response.

    1. Re:Stumping for non-free software to lower costs. by nmos · · Score: 1

      Err. These are some of the most morally bankrupt people on the planet and you actually WANT them taking ethics into account when making software acquisition decisions? You might as well ask your dog to do calculus.

    2. Re:Stumping for non-free software to lower costs. by jbn-o · · Score: 1

      Yes, I want them to improve how they make their decisions. Unlike teaching a dog calculus, I don't think it's beyond them to do so, I think that there needs to be someone opposing the round-the-clock lobbying corporations put into getting them to seeing things their way.

      I don't think it's a lot to ask of the public, even though (as you note) elected officials so often disappoint. If nobody asks, there is absolutely no pressure on them to do anything differently. So we shouldn't be surprised that they don't do what we want when we don't engage in the process. Merely asking isn't enough, of course, we really need organized people to tell them that they'll not vote for the incumbent if they make the wrong decision or base their decision on bad policy. Perhaps then we can combat the organized money opposing our efforts.

  50. Figures help put claims in context. by jbn-o · · Score: 1

    Do you have some figures to show us so we can get a better understanding of what you mean by real time access and how PostgreSQL and MySQL are inadequate to the task? It's information like this that can help us not dismiss your anecdote as you tell us to do ("anectodal data doesn't mean anything").

    As it stands, if you're writing a dispatching system for the New York Police Department (which I take you mean by NYPD), most people aren't doing that so I would find it hard to believe that they would be convinced away from choosing a free software or open source database program instead of the proprietary programs you're advocating.

  51. Debian "advanced hardware" by runderwo · · Score: 3, Informative
    Either distribution will give you an easy install, access to Debian packages and apt-based network updates, but with more advanced hardware support
    I think what they meant to say here instead of "more advanced hardware support" is "more liberal support of hardware whose intended operation requires non-free software". The implication in the former is that Debian is somehow behind in hardware support, which is demonstrably false - every unsupported device that could be supported is invariably due to one of the following:
    • a license issue that prohibits redistribution entirely
    • contradictory licensing in the Linux kernel (e.g. a GPL-incompatible license in a Linux driver) that causes a driver to be removed from the Debian kernel
    • DFSG issues such as binary-only firmware forcing the package into non-free, even if it was otherwise freely redistributable and had a compatible license with whatever it linked with (since Debian policy requires freely redistributable source code for all programs in the archive)
    Other distributions have more liberal policies with respect to software that supports hardware devices, but Debian's conservative stance attempts to guarantee that nobody further down the distribution chain can end up screwed by a license problem. In other words, it's a feature, not a bug.

    I have had a few problems with the interpretation of Debian policy in the past.

    The first was that the proposed firmware loader really sucked for certain applications. I'm not sure if this has changed. Because of this, I was originally really pissed off with the interpretation that the DFSG "program" applied to microcode and firmware because of the technical limitations of the loader interface. Eventually I came to the conclusion that this really was for the better though, but only after the following issue was also resolved:

    There was a huge push to eliminate non-free from the archive around the beginning of last year. This sounded like a great idea at first, because then the FSF would endorse Debian as the reference GNU/Linux distribution (aside from the GFDL conflict). Unfortunately, once everyone started moving firmwares and microcode to non-free, it was becoming increasingly clear that if Debian was going to continue to support modern hardware, non-free was here to stay. Certain zealots continued to push for the removal of non-free, even when it was apparent that doing so would not serve the interests of free software in the long term due to the reduced mindshare growth of people not being able to install Debian on their existing systems. Eventually a GR was made, and non-free was kept around. This political decision, coupled with my realization that the long-term benefits of free firmware outweighed any temporary technical difficulties with a crappy firmware loader interface.

    The final struggle for me is that certain zealots in the Debian community are still insisting that all strings of bits are to be interpreted as 'programs' under the DFSG, and thus the 'source' must be required. There are two gaping problems with this. The first is the level of abstraction (FA theory) at which one must view things in order to claim that, for example, a video file is a program - I think that's utterly impractical. The second follows from the first - what is the 'source code' for (for example) a video file? Raw DV? Raw uncompressed frames? Who determines whether a particular package is in compliance or not? What if the author deleted the raw source after processing it? What about the effect on the mirrors who suddenly have to host multi-GB raw video files?

    There is some practicality to having such high-quality source files for multimedia, because it encourages reuse of the content, so I think making such things available whenever possible should be encouraged. But the idea that a piece of software could be placed in non-free because it included an intro AVI without a raw video source files is ludicrous and counter-productive, IMO.

  52. Groklaw is Fair, not objective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At Groklaw, it's obvious when you're getting PJ's opinion and when you're getting facts. And Groklaw reports everything, the good and the bad. They don't try to put a bad spin on good news or vice versa. It just turns out that nearly all of the news about the case has been bad for SCO. If you don't like the apparent bias in PJ's commentary, all the source documents are available at Groklow. Download the court docs and read them yourself.

    Of course they are biased against SCO. But let me tell you, I started reading about that case around April of 2003 and I kept an open mind for two full months. It took that long for me to fully accept that SCO had nothing--no evidence, no case, nothing but smoke and lies.

    It's hard to be "objective" when one side has all the law, facts and common sense on its side and the other is just putting on stock-pumping scams and unsubstantiated PR blitzes.

  53. Who cares? C# and .Net are as good as dead too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Developers have NOT been flocking towards .Net because everyone knows that it was just Microsoft's idea to make a proprietary Java. Since the effort in developing for Java and for .Net are about the same, the end results are pretty similar (slow programs) and since Java is available on multiple platforms from multiple vendors and Java has wider support, better libraries, better documentation, more examples and has been in the market for longer -- there is no incentive to move to .Net.

    1. Re:Who cares? C# and .Net are as good as dead too by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      Java is for people who want Sun to tell them how to program.

      Tell me when I can choose to create Qt, Gtk or WinForms based apps in Java. Tell me when Java lets me write "unsafe" code (that's a stupid misnomer, there's nothing inherently unsafe about pointer arithmetic or inlined assembler, or unmanaged resources).

      I hate Java because coding in Java means writing your programs one exact specific way that Sun has approved. It holds your hand, and chains your ankles even more than VB6 ever could.

      Once upon a time, MS exposed the GDI to Java, and Sun threw a fit and sued them. They tend to do that whenever anyone tries to "extend" their precious language.

      C#, and the .Net CLR are actual ECMA standards, are more open than Java, and are actually extensible. MSFT can lock down their APIs all they want, Mono gives you more than you need, and anyone can write libraries to import into the GAC.

      Developers are moving towards .Net a whole lot faster than they ever moved towards Java, which has been relegated to a niche server market. There aren't many end-user apps written in Java.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:Who cares? C# and .Net are as good as dead too by swillden · · Score: 1

      Tell me when I can choose to create Qt, Gtk or WinForms based apps in Java.

      There are GTK and Qt bindings for Java.

      I haven't used them and can't comment on how well they do or do not work, but they exist and claim to be stable and fully functional.

      WinForms I don't know about.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:Who cares? C# and .Net are as good as dead too by LarsWestergren · · Score: 2, Informative

      Once upon a time, MS exposed the GDI to Java, and Sun threw a fit and sued them. They tend to do that whenever anyone tries to "extend" their precious language.

      Look, back at the end of 1990s MS and Sun signed a contract which said MS could use Java on Windows, use the Java trademark etc, IF and only IF MS agreed to follow a few simple rules. For instance, was perfectly free to add functionality, if they, like everyone else, did this in their OWN library (com.microsoft.java.applet...) They were also free to do their own implementation, but then they could NOT call it Java.

      Microsoft did not do this. They continued to claim that they used Java, and at the same time deliberately attempted to break it by adding Microsoft specific behaviour to the core java classes. The goal was obvious - once enough people were programming to the Microsoft target, users on all other platforms would start to complain that Java was broken and only Microsoft did it right.

      A blatant breach of contract, and pretty dirty tactics to boot. Sun sued, they won, Microsoft cloned Java the language, called it C#, cloned Java the platform, called it .Net, and here we are.

      C#, and the .Net CLR are actual ECMA standards, are more open than Java, and are actually extensible.

      I can join the JCP and vote on how Java will develop in the future. Show me where I can do this with C# and .Net.

      --

      Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die

  54. So much for your credibility... by Jerk+City+Troll · · Score: 1

    You completely blew it when you called PostgreSQL a "toy database". Hate to burst your bubble, but PostgreSQL is only barely shy of the features Oracle (the database, not the complete suite) provides.

    1. Re:So much for your credibility... by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      Almost only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  55. Union? by b17bmbr · · Score: 1

    i thought you open source guys were a bunch of raving anarchists. now i find out you actaully have a union to give a state of address. damn.

    --
    My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
    1. Re:Union? by sirReal.83. · · Score: 1

      Open Source without government? Copyleft without copyright? And you're a teacher? I can see you're earning your twenty-four grand a year... ;P

    2. Re:Union? by b17bmbr · · Score: 1

      apparently you lack a sense of humor. and by the way, we got a raise. i get 25 grand a year. (that's humor too.)

      --
      My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
    3. Re:Union? by sirReal.83. · · Score: 1

      Apparently you lack a sense-of-humor-detector. Wait, was that humor? I can't even detect my own now. :(

      I guess I won't let you borrow mine, then...

  56. I agree by zeitgeist_chaser · · Score: 1

    I was merely quibbling over the use of the term 'objective' as used in the article. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that it managed to get me a +5 Insightful mod. Your comments are dead-on. I too enjoy PJ's site and hope that she keeps up the good work.

    --
    While thinking philosophically, we see problems in places where there are none. -Wittgenstein
    1. Re:I agree by FunWithHeadlines · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the word "objective" has been corrupted to mean you allow Side A to lie and then you allow Side B to lie, and then you don't correct either lie, but hey you let both sides have their say! That way lies ignorance, in my opinion. I wish more journalists and news organizations would follow PJ's lead. I might get annoyed at the editorial slant if it differed from my own, but boy wouldn't it be nice to have news organizations quote Side A and then point out that they lied, here's where they lied, and here's how you can check for yourself?

  57. Re:Groklaw -- Get the facts anywhere? by softcoder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am not at ALL sure you can 'get the facts anywhere'. I certainly can't. And even the 'public record' can be censored after the fact depending on the settlement of the case. If you could get the facts anywhere, there would be no such thing as FUD.
    I agree with another poster. Objective, and Balanced, and Neutral are not always the same thing. When it comes to facts, I think Groklaw is objective. They present what is there. This is NOT true of most media, especially mainstream media.
    When it comes to opinion, they are honest; they disclose their biases up front. This is also not true of most media, especially mainstream media.

  58. Re:Why shouldn't Microsoft pursue a patent strateg by screenrc · · Score: 1

    Oh, that is Microsoft we are talking about! It
    is well known (through court rulings) that
    they don't play within the confines of the
    law. I am afraid, this empire does not always
    care about legal boundaries.

  59. OSS for voting? Not good enough! by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 1
    OSS for voting machines would only give you the ILLUSION of an honest election. Let me explain:

    Where I live, voters would receive an invitation by mail, letting them know when an election is held, together with a list of candidates to study in advance. Voters would go to the voting location, present that invitation (and possibly ID themselves), then receive a paper ballot, with all candidates/parties printed on it. Mark a circle next to the desired candidate with a red pencil, drop the ballot in a box, and you're done. How much easier can you make it? But here's the important thing: ANYONE (maybe even non-voters) CAN VERIFY EVERY SINGLE STEP IN THE PROCESS.

    Before the election, there's plenty time to correct mistakes like voters not registered (that should have been), arrange to vote at another location, etc. At election day, anyone can verify that the box receiving the ballots, is empty at the start. You can hang around and see for yourself, that every voter drops only 1 ballot in the box, and that voters aren't excluded, harassed, or pressured into voting something other than their own choice. At the end of the day, you can watch the box being emptied, ballots (hand-)counted, re-counted if needed, and see that correct totals are recorded, and reported to city hall. And I'm pretty sure you could verify the totals being calculated at city hall, and verify that national results match the totals recorded for each city/village. In short: convince yourself, that there is not a SINGLE step in the process, where results could be compromised/f**ked up.

    AFAIK, using paper ballots and hand-counting, is still:

    • The most reliable: paper & ink don't fail, and when folks are watching, you need magic to make paper ballots change/appear/disappear.
    • The most accurate: you just may need to re-count a couple of times to be sure.
    • Cheap: election officials/count people are either volunteers or civil servants that were paid anyway. Paper & pencils cost nothing.
    • Fast. If organised properly, millions of votes can be counted in hours.

    Using OSS for voting machines doesn't assure you anything. Can you verify the compiler used to turn the source code into binary? Can you verify it is fed the same source code that is published? Can you verify that the machine it runs in, is built according to (published) schematics? Can you verify that IC's used, are what their markings say? Can you verify yourself, that eg. a Flash ROM contains the verified binary? Can you be sure of all that BEFORE elections begin, and be sure that machines will operate 100% reliable until elections are done? And that totals are added accurately, when results are transmitted over wires, and processed in an all-electronic manner? I don't think so, too many variables. For reliable results, ALL these things would have to work flawless, and verifiable.

    I never understood why voting machines were allowed to undermine this voter-verification, and IMHO machines do nothing to improve the process, or the results.

    If it were up to me, voting machines would never be used, or retired right now as a failed experiment. In fact, a Robert X. Cringely makes a strong case for just that: "Follow the Money: Why the Best Voting Technology May Be No Technology at All".

    Sadly, where I live, voting machines were introduced as well... ;-((

  60. Biased agains Sun by SunFan · · Score: 3, Insightful


    The article above is clearly biased against Sun. Sun has said openly they are not out to sue anyone, and that their intents with the CDDL and patent grant is to actually prevent lawsuits. Slashdot really needs to cool off over this.

    Also, Bruce Perens has numerous conflicts of interest in the matter, so his opinions should be read in context. For example, he works for OSRM, which is an insurance company who stands to make money from inflating the perceived risk regarding patents. He will say otherwise, but the timing and veracity of his comments surrounding the announcement of OpenSolaris are quite a coincidence. He also has vested interests in two or more Linux distributions, so of course he sides with the Linux fanboys on issues beyond patents.

    Groklaw has been more balanced, in that they at least posted articles following up their initial set of questions about the CDDL. Of course, people commenting on the articles at Groklaw generally sound like JFK conspiracy theorists, so don't take them too seriously, either.

    Let Sun prove themselves in their actions over the next year. OpenSolaris should be out around June or July, so they need a good year for people to get a feel for how all that will work. If Jonathan Schwartz were to ever pull off a mask revealing a big green patent ogre, then you can say I was wrong. But the likelihood of that is nil.

    --
    -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
  61. I'll go further ... by timothy · · Score: 1

    I find it annoying that *any* software is required to make sense of our tax laws and forms!

    Jack Kemp (whatever else you think of him, and I think about him something close to not at all) used to push the "post-card tax return," and a flat tax, or even a flat-tax-with-simple-deductable could be done that way.

    Now, I'd rather see all income taxes eliminated, and what taxes must be raised raised via sales taxes, but Hey, I'll take certain lesser goods over certain current evils.

    So, however nice and worthy are all employees such things support, I'd like to the need for tax software go away completely, and that's an approachable goal.

    (I noted with some disappointment that GWB tested the waters on this before the election, then quickly clammed up about it, while his circle of advisors paddled backwards to assure everyone that he'd never support such a nutty, fair, easy system. Nearly made me vote for him, that did.) The attack of common sense was too brief, though, and too narrow.

    timothy

    --
    jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
    1. Re:I'll go further ... by bhaskin · · Score: 1

      I agree with you a flat tax would be a step in the right direction, but a simple sales tax would be even better.

      http://fairtax.org/ is a group trying to get a national sales tax enacted.

      Brian

    2. Re:I'll go further ... by timothy · · Score: 1

      Much agreed; that's why I couched my mention of a flat/flatter income tax as one possible better-than-now possibility.

      Good book on the subject (I'm sick enough right now I'm not even going to google it) is titled something like "why we must abolish the Income tax and dissolve the IRS" and I *think* it's put out by the Cato folks, with whom I often / usually agree.

      timothy

      --
      jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
  62. What I have to have a Product? by ElDuderino44137 · · Score: 1

    Heh ...

    So I have to have a Product?
    I can't just sell an idea !!

    Blasphomy ;)

  63. Re:Why shouldn't Microsoft pursue a patent strateg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guys, guys, guys, have you forgotten who funded SCO???? Don't you think that Microsoft was just testing the waters to see if they could attack Linux via patents without actually putting themselves at risk should things backfire? Duh!

  64. Election? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "2004 has been, especially as an election year, a controversial year for the phenomenon of blogging."

    Every year is an election year, somewhere. Just depends where you live.

  65. Take a peek at "Look at the Numbers!" by dwheeler · · Score: 1

    You might want to take a peek at my paper Why Open Source Software / Free Software (OSS/FS)? Look at the Numbers!". Feel free to share it, or quote (attributed) information from it. The paper has lots of useful facts and figures on why people should consider OSS/FS.

    --
    - David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
  66. Debian Grizzle by petrus4 · · Score: 1

    >Slashdot really needs to cool off over this.

    >Also, Bruce Perens has numerous conflicts of
    >interest in the matter, so his opinions should
    >be read in context.

    I will admit that one thing that has come to bother me about Debian is the amount of "Debian IS Linux!" groupthink that seems to have sprung up. It is the persistent attitude I see online that Debian and Red Hat's offerings (and maybe SUSE) are the only Linux distributions in existence worth mentioning. To put it bluntly, they're not.

    Debian might have as many wonderful benefits as any other distribution in existence (and I don't doubt that it does) but to the lemmings guilty of the above attitude, (and I think you know who you are) you might want to consider the idea of downloading a recent Slackware or Gentoo release and seeing what other people are doing from time to time...if only to maintain your awareness of the fact that said other people are actually there.

  67. NO! Not the History Eraser button, you fool! by zooblethorpe · · Score: 1
    The next challenge, will be to place this all in a neat little iconified environment so more-naive users can do really powerful things.

    You know, I'm not so sure that'd be such a good idea....

    --
    "What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
    "A four-foot prune."