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AirPort Express Streaming Audio From Any Program

Foobaz writes "Until now, the only application that can play audio on Apple's AirPort Express has been Apple's own iTunes. But Rogue Amoeba, makers of Audio Hijack, just released Airfoil, a program that lets you redirect anything to your AirPort Express, like streaming audio from mplayer, RealPlayer, or VLC."

50 of 261 comments (clear)

  1. Tinfoil hats by boingyzain · · Score: 3, Funny

    Do I need an airfoil hat to use this?

  2. Sync issues by KoopaTroopa · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Has anyone used this? Are there any sync issues if running audio from (as an example) VLC from a video file?

    --
    Sharpies don't just sniff themselves.
    1. Re:Sync issues by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 5, Informative

      They answer that question in the FAQ. Yes, the audio will be out of sync. This can be solved with VLC or MPlayer by manually synchronizing the video and audio. This cannot be solved with DVD Player.app, RealPlayer, or anything else that won't let you decouple audio from video. There's probably nothing they can really do about this.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    2. Re:Sync issues by KoopaTroopa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I figure hopefully there's a kind of standard delay in the Airport Express decoding so, even if you have to manually sync, maybe it's not a trial-and-error process.

      Thanks for reading the FAQ for me (page didn't load for me, apparently it wasn't /.'d yet though.

      --
      Sharpies don't just sniff themselves.
    3. Re:Sync issues by JonGretar · · Score: 5, Informative

      There is a sync issue with this. It's got to do with the APEX standard and nothing the DEV's can do about it.

      However. This is not a problem since VLC and MPlayer can move the sound all around. So just watch your torrents with VLC(which I guess you do anyway) and make the sound be a few seconds early. Easy peasy.

      More info at http://www.rogueamoeba.com/forum/ubb/Forum7/HTML/0 00010.html

    4. Re:Sync issues by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 3, Interesting
      There's probably nothing they can really do about this.
      I said that, but it's not true. They could write software that would buffer everything coming out of the compositing engine, or perhaps just one window, and play it back a second or two later. Obviously this would be resource intensive and prone to annoyances, but it could work on big, burly machines.
      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    5. Re:Sync issues by pancakegeels · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Easy peasy? I can't get this to work from any command line app. Any ideas?

  3. Crippleware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    It emits noise after using for ten minutes, unless you purchase the "pro" version

    1. Re:Crippleware by amichalo · · Score: 5, Funny

      It emits noise after using for ten minutes, unless you purchase the "pro" version

      That's just your music. Try this site and see if it helps.

      --
      I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
    2. Re:Crippleware by SlamMan · · Score: 2, Informative

      So? Its a demo. It it was fully functional, few people would buy it.

      --
      Mod point free since 2001
    3. Re:Crippleware by nacturation · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, after ten minutes it turns into steaming audio.

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    4. Re:Crippleware by nacturation · · Score: 3, Funny

      what, does that mean that it plays raunchy pron over the wireless connection

      No, not origasmi. I was thinking more the kind your neighbor's dog carefully arranges on your lawn. Dogs certainly know their feng shuit.

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    5. Re:Crippleware by SkipRosebaugh · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sure there is. It's called JustePort

  4. Still not the only feature I want by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I want to be able to use my computer as an AirTunes sink, not a source. I'm not about to buy an Airport Express, but I'd like to be able to pipe audio from my girlfriend's iBook to my desktop's speakers.

    Then yeah, I'd like to be able to do it with DVD Player.app as well as iTunes.

    --

    There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    1. Re:Still not the only feature I want by humuhumunukunukuapu' · · Score: 4, Informative

      why not turn on sharing in both of your itunes? then you can access one another's libraries.

      --
      i saw the baby, and the baby looked at me
    2. Re:Still not the only feature I want by jacksonj04 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Shared Library actually works better than AirTunes in this regard - a shared library works irrespective of what each person is doing, unlike AirTunes where iTunes needs to do the work on one machine.

      So, with shared library you can both listen to different things!

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
  5. Will the foil fly? by erick99 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Airfoil looks like a great product,however, I can't quite tell if it is something that Apple will dislike given how proprietary Apple can be.

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
    1. Re:Will the foil fly? by isa-kuruption · · Score: 5, Informative

      If Apple didn't like it and wanted to be proprietary, they wouldn't have used Real Time Streaming Protocol (RTSP), which is a well documented and supported protocol, as the transport method.

    2. Re:Will the foil fly? by beej69 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      huh? do you have any URL's to back up your claim? afaik, apple purposefully used a proprietary algorithm. Jon Lech Johansen (yes... DVD Jon) was the one to reverse-engineer it:
      http://nanocrew.net/blog/apple/revairtunes.html

    3. Re:Will the foil fly? by isa-kuruption · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My claims? Considering Apple uses RTSP for it's Quicktime streaming it would only make sense for them to use the thing they know for their other products. Any more proof? Shall I telnet to port 554 on my Airport Express and show you the RTSP signature? How about a Apple Press Release in which they updated RTSP in the Airport firmware. I'm sure Apple always updates protocols not supported by their hardware!

    4. Re:Will the foil fly? by beej69 · · Score: 2, Informative

      ok... so if they are using RTSP to stream the bits, they're still using a proprietary method to encode those bits :) so we're both right? or both wrong? ;)

    5. Re:Will the foil fly? by isa-kuruption · · Score: 5, Informative

      As explained in this blog:

      RAOP protocol itself has already been analyzed by DVDJon and its implementation is availabe as an open source C# software called JustePort. RAOP protocol is based on RTSP wrapped with AES and RSA cryptography, on which Apple Lossless files are streamed.

      AES and RSA are also open methods in conjunction with RTSP. Seems pretty open to me.

  6. Okay... by Delta2.0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That will work nice for those who have airport express, but when will other hardware makers put the ability to stream music to a stereo on their routers so the price won't be such a factor?

    1. Re:Okay... by 3nuff · · Score: 2, Informative

      When they realize that everyone is buying an AirPort Express.

      Fortunately the AP Express is not a single purpose device, like other streaming audio solutions. The printing and network extending capabilities make it well worth the $125.

      A great addition to the AirPort would be a remote control with TV display. I'm visualizing being able to see my track info on my TV screen and control the tracks with a remote. I know that there is a TiVO solution (that I won't link to, use google) that works like this, but the cost of all the hardward puts you up there with the non-AirPort Express solution. Then again multitasker capabilties of TiVO also increase it's value over the single task streaming audio devices.

      --
      "Give me taste, give me funk, give me fury, gimme some more."
  7. Audio Hijack by mailman-zero · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How do they accomplish this? Is there any sort of conversion on the fly being done to the audio? Are they piping it through iTunes somehow or implementing this on their own? Does this involve encryption algorithms?

    --
    Let's play video games with mailmanZERO
    1. Re:Audio Hijack by nguyenhm · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes it involves encryption. The signal going to an Airport Express is encrypted Apple Lossless.

    2. Re:Audio Hijack by beej69 · · Score: 5, Informative

      they're the first high-profile implementation of the algorithm that Jon Lech Johansen reverse-engineered:
      (http://nanocrew.net/blog/apple/revairtunes.html)

      and yes... this is THAT Jon... the one that got yanked into court for reverse-engineering the DVD encryption. all hail Jon! :D

      what we need now is for mplayer and VLC and the others to implement airport express streaming directly in the media player...

  8. Apple's not going to like this. by jocknerd · · Score: 2, Informative

    They don't like to share their toys with outsiders.

    Don't flame me. I'm an Apple user. So I know what I speak of.

    1. Re:Apple's not going to like this. by SpamJunkie · · Score: 5, Informative

      It probably won't be a problem, for two reasons:

      1. It's been in beta for a while, Apple could have easily done something about it earlier.

      2. It still uses iTunes. The backend uses the iTunes API to add a local stream to the library and send it to the Airport Express.

      What would really make Apple upset is if someone had discovered the key being used to encrypt the audio, but that hasn't happened here.

    2. Re:Apple's not going to like this. by useosx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apple never had a problem with Audio Hijack. I really see no reason that they're going to think anything other than "Oh, now we'll sell more Airport Expresses."

      This is much different than, say, cracking their DRM. I really can't think of a single reason they would disapprove of Airfoil.

    3. Re:Apple's not going to like this. by fiji · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh, like what "DVD Jon" did last August: http://nanocrew.net/blog/apple/revairtunes.html

      -ben

    4. Re:Apple's not going to like this. by lpp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Er, no. Apple loves people to play with their toys but only in Apple approved ways.

      I am the developer for QTConvert, an app that just exposes the QuickTime API for format exporting, a feature normally only available for folks who've upgraded to QuickTime Pro. When iTMS first came out, the QuickTime API still supported exporting from Protected AAC to whatever formats were valid targets. However QuickTime Pro had disabled this, by doing a simple check. Since I didn't really care to have my tunes in an encumbered format, and was only using the API Apple had exposed, I slapped together the app and let it loose.

      Within a few months, Apple had released an updated to several of their iApps and to the QuickTime API essentially removing the Protected AAC format as an import format for conversion.

      So while I wasn't doing anything illegal and was making simple use of their API, it wasn't something Apple liked. Now I'm sure my little app wasn't the main reason, or even a big reason, for the API change, but the timing is certainly intriguing enough.

      So the OP was quite on topic about this point, if a bit paranoid.

  9. RealPlayer!? by Tibor+the+Hun · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think I speak for all of us when I say AWESOME!

    Kudos to the hackers though..

    --
    If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
  10. Funny? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    From the site, under "Buy" on the right:

    *Before purchase, noise is overlaid on all transmissions longer than 10 minutes.

  11. Re:Are Airports lossy? by suso · · Score: 4, Funny

    Only if you fly with TWA.

  12. Dishonest marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative
    Until now, the only application that can play audio on Apple's Airport Express has been Apple's own iTunes.

    That is dishonest marketing. JustePort has been doing that for quite some time. It's even more dishonest when Rogue Amoeba probably relied on JustePort to write the AirFoil.
    1. Re:Dishonest marketing by steve_bryan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Did you try to check your claim before making the accusation? If Rogue Amoeba uses an iTunes API to add the audio output as a stream to iTunes then iTunes may be doing all the heavy lifting of conversion to lossless audio, the RSA and AES cryptography, etc. It seems entirely possible that they are just doing audio capture as they always have with their main product and letting Apple do the rest of the work.

      Checking facts seems like it would be the right thing to do before casting aspersions. Now pardon me while I go off to see if Apple has added a convenient new API call to iTunes.

  13. Re:Are Airports lossy? by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's lossless, but there's lag.

    --

    There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  14. Re:CAN ANYTHING HELP ME WITH STREAMING VIDEO? by SlamMan · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sure. Look into the hardware from El Gato.

    --
    Mod point free since 2001
  15. Or.... by MattHaffner · · Score: 4, Funny

    mplayer, RealPlayer, or VLC...

    Or... Doom3. Wonder how long it will take for the neighbors to call the cops.

  16. Rogue Rawks by mushupork · · Score: 4, Informative

    I purchased Audio Hijack to rip AAR to my iPod (you know... before the election) It was crashing on my iBook however. Rogue's support was great, we went back and forth with emails of things to try for a few days. The conclusion was me getting a new build that cured the problem. YMMV of course, but I'd buy from them again.

    This is a completely unsolicited endorsement (a /. rarity)

    --
    Currently bidding on sig
  17. VLC streaming to AirPort Express by divinemac · · Score: 5, Informative
    There is an excellent article on (the excellent site) http://www.macosxhints.com/ regarding how to stream from VLC http://www.videolan.org/ to iTunes here without any additional 3rd parts apps:
    http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20041 023154910602&query=VLC

    I've been using this solution for playing DIVX files from my laptop (which is connected to my projector, while the audio is routed to AirPort Express) for some time, and works well, thanks to the author's knowledge, and the power of VLC !

  18. Re:I don't want to troll but: by inertia187 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...considering that only 3% of all computer users use a mac...

    When did we get that extra 1%?

    --
    A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
  19. This is totally wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is totally wrong. No one should EVER modify Apple products without express consent from Apple. We all know that Apple makes the best products out of the box and that no modifications could ever be necessary.

    You think you own the product, so you should be able to do what you want with it? Sorry, but no, it's an Apple product and such notions do not apply to Apple products. Unless Steve Jobs gives the go ahead and gives it his blessing.

    I would like to be the first to say that this is unethical, immoral, and wrong. Since when could another company profit off of hacking another companies product? Since when did you gain the 'right' to modify or change the operation of something you own, even if it isn't a physical modification?

    I, for one, say Apple should sue the crap out of this company like that sued that college kid.

  20. From any program?! by Anita+Coney · · Score: 3, Funny

    Exactly why would I want to stream audio from Notepad.exe?!

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  21. Re:Is there an equivalent for windows? by badasscat · · Score: 2, Informative

    And also routers that can do this? Its a cool feature that i'd like to have but dont want to switch to macs

    I don't know about routers, but you can do what I and a lot of others do and have a media server hooked up to your home theater setup through either wireless or (preferably) wired ethernet (still better than wireless for speed and stability). I'm sure there are probably some NAS devices that can act similarly at a lower cost than a full-fledged PC. I admit that I don't quite "get" what's so special about AirPort Express because it seems to actually do quite a bit less than what I'm used to, but maybe it's just the convenience of having this thing that's "always on", I don't know. And of course it's sort of cheap (though not that cheap).

    But if you're bent on using Windows and/or Linux and you don't mind paying a little more for actually greater functionality, then get a cheap little server box, stick a good sound card in there and hook it up to your stereo. I've got mine running iTunes, which I can then pipe either to my laptops around the house or through my main stereo speakers. (It'll obviously work in reverse too, pulling any music I've got on my laptops and playing it through the stereo speakers.) Of course, it also streams video and whatever else I want to throw at it, and displays it all on my TV.

    I can control it through Windows Remote Desktop Connection, so I have no need for a separate monitor. If you're running Linux, you can do the same with a VNC client (though VNC is a lot slower and is harder to deal with as a real remote desktop).

  22. Yeah, that iTunes program is wicked expensive by reptilicus · · Score: 4, Informative

    ---But it requires iTunes, so there's one more thing that I'm not going to buy from apple.---

    You do realize that iTunes is free, and works just fine with all sorts of file formats you can rip from your own cd's or buy elsewhere right? It'll even convert your WMA files to AAC.

    ---If I buy a Chevy vehicle, I want it to work with any gasoline that's been refined properly. I don't want to buy Chevy gasoline, or gasoline from an "approved Chevy distributor". Same goes for my music... If I buy something that plays music, I just want it to play my goddamned music... Not music from store A, or through service B.----

    Sounds pretty much like iTunes fits the bill for you then, as long as you avoid buying music downloads from any seller with proprietary DRM (pretty much everyone selling major label songs for download, Apple included).

    --- Until things change, Apple ain't seeing a dime from me.---

    You should really stick it to them by downloading it and using it for free then.

    1. Re:Yeah, that iTunes program is wicked expensive by Theaetetus · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The problem is that I ~have~ downloaded iTunes in the past, and I didn't like it. Apple's software, like their hardware, has many design decisions that are for the benefit of Apple, not me as an end consumer. Even Quicktime is invasive (why the hell do they have that load on startup???).

      Why does Windows load IE's render engine on startup?
      Also, what's invasive about iTunes?

      Audio players are free these days... Winamp, musicmatch, microsoft, apple... Hell, I've even written my own. The fact that they've locked out their hardware so that only ~their~ free music player will work with it is incentive enough for me to steer clear.

      Yes... except for XPlay for Windows, gtkpod for Linux, etc. Those free music players work just fine with the iPod.

      Plus, you know something - you don't even need a player, period. Mount an iPod and view the hidden files on there: there's a "Music" hidden folder, and all of your MP3s are inside there as hidden files. Simply copy in your MP3s and set their flags to be hidden too, and they'll show up as if you sync'd with iTunes, XPlay, gtkpod, etc.

      -T

  23. Re:Gaaah! by derubergeek · · Score: 2, Funny
    Yeah, when I buy a Chevy vehicle, I want to be able to put a Ford hood on it. And a Lexus navigation system in it. And BMW wheels on it.

    What's that you say? I can't? Proprietary bastards!

    --
    Trust me. This is an inactive account. Regardless of what the /. bean counters might report.
  24. No need for VNC by aclarke · · Score: 2, Informative

    Hey. In case anybody cares, there really isn't a need for VNC, as long as you're not using Windows 98 on your media server. Or maybe XP Home too. Windows NT-based operating systems (i.e. 2000 & XP Pro) allow you to use Terminal Services as you're doing to get into them. There's a Remote Desktop client available for both Linux and Mac OS X (www.rdesktop.org).

    If you're using Linux as your media server, just connect to it using a remote X-Server. It might be a little less intuitive for a Windows user to understand, but you can locally display your programs on your client that are actually running on your server. The client can be Windows, Mac OS X or Linux. On free windows X server can be obtained at www.cygwin.com.

    I'm sure you know all this, but this is just in case anyone else is reading your post looking for options.