A Concise Guide to the Major Internet Bodies

alex simonelis submitted a good summary of the major internet bodies. If you hunger to know the difference between ICANN, IETF, ISOC and the rest of the alphabet soup of the governing bodies that make our beloved internet possible, this is a great place to look. It covers 10 major organizations.

Comments

I don't see Paris Hilton

[A nonymous Coward]

Or goatse.cx for that matter.

Who is this guy kidding? The major Internet bodies my eye!

Re:I don't see Paris Hilton

[MrAnnoyanceToYou]

Fear that. Who knew? The first two posts were about how pr0n and its sub-par affiliates aren't on the list.
Slashdot is becoming mainstream and I don't like it. People used to flame me for being an idiot, and that was good - I am.

boobies, just for good measure, mod points, karma, and depressive meaning.

Re:I don't see Paris Hilton

[smittyoneeach]

IHTFP didn't make it, either

Re:I don't see Paris Hilton

[bird603568]

forgot tubgirl

Re:I don't see Paris Hilton

[Anonymous Coward]

and the GNAA

Re:I don't see Paris Hilton

[pigpogm]

No. Once you've seen it, you'll never forget tubgirl.

Speaking of which, someone cuted it up nicely on B3ta recently...
http://www.b3ta.com/board/4332139

If you've never seen it, this gives you a chance to get the idea without burning the full horror of it into your brain forever.

Re:I don't see Paris Hilton

[theTerribleRobbo]

But is it work-safe? :P

Re:I don't see Paris Hilton

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on your job. If you're "owner of the company", then maybe, otherwise it's a trap!

Re:I don't see Paris Hilton

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Goatse goes under the acronym of IANAL.

ahh

[nomadic]

Favorite internet bodies? Oh, so many jokes coming...

Re:ahh

[Seculus]

Standard reply to your sig: If you're so rich, why aren't you smart ?

Major Internet Bodies?

[American AC in Paris]

I guess it's a start, but there are some pretty major omissions to this list. For example, they managed to overlook both Paris Hilton and Jenna Jameson.

I don't think they can call this guide "concise" until they address these gaping holes...

Re:Major Internet Bodies?

[Inkieminstrel]

I don't think they can call this guide "concise" until they address these gaping holes...

Speaking of gaping holes, I think you're missing another major internet body yourself

Re:Major Internet Bodies?

[fembots]

Not anymore. Paris Hilton has escaped paparazzi and Pamela Anderson is now too shy

Re:Major Internet Bodies?

[nate nice]

You usually have to pay to see Jenna so I wouldn't call her a favorite. Hilton on the other hand! Are those *real*?

"I don't think they can call this guide "concise" until they address these gaping holes..." ...yeah...*whistles*...

Re:Major Internet Bodies?

[Phat_Tony]

Yeah, they don't even mention the most popular internet body.

Re:Major Internet Bodies?

[pLnCrZy]

Doesn't Cindy Margolis still claim the be the most downloaded woman?

Re:Major Internet Bodies?

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate bad grammar.

Speaking of gaping holes, I think you're missing another major international body on yourself.

What vs How

[fembots]

It's nice to know what each organistion does, but is there an article about how they actually do it?

For instance, how (pardon my ignorance) ICANN actually controls numbers and names, technically. Is there a mainframe of some sort that stores them? How does ICANN make changes?

Re:What vs How

[Anonymous Coward]

For instance, how (pardon my ignorance) ICANN actually controls numbers and names, technically. Is there a mainframe of some sort that stores them? How does ICANN make changes?

Well, it's all stored in DNS servers. You request a server and your browser does a DNS lookup at your primary DNS server, which is probably run by your ISP. If your primary DNS server doesn't know the correct IP, it asks a server higher up the chain (or gets your browser to ask, I can't remember which). If that server doesn't know, it goes one level higher. At the very top are the 13 root servers, run by people like VeriSign. If you want to make the Internet pretty useless, take out those servers (someone tried a couple of years ago).

Re:What vs How

[Metapsyborg]

"At the very top are the 13 root servers, run by people like VeriSign"

The 13 Root Servers Buwahahahahaha

I welcome our 13 Demonic Server Overlords

Re:What vs How

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you want to make the Internet pretty useless..."

That's not much of a challenge, look at the headstart you've got.

Re:What vs How

[sjb21043]

DNS is part of it, it's the closest thing to the "mainframe" hypothesized by the grandparent, but the actual vehicle for the control is that they publish documents.

The DNS really only holds the mappings betweens IP addresses and host names. There are a few other things in there, but not all of the assigned numbers, by any means.

The IANA has responsibility for a lot of other things. Basically they get tasked in documents published by the IETF, called RFC's, to maintain registries of various assignments. For instance, the thing before the colon in a URL, called a "scheme" (http:, ftp:, mailto:, etc.) are registered with IANA, that maintains a registry pointing to protocol details. The fact that TCP's port 80 is where HTTP servers are normally listening is assigned by IANA.

Used to be that every couple of hundred RFC's IANA would publish one called "Assigned Numbers", that pretty much listed all of the well known ports, protocol numbers, URL schemas, and so on. Way back in the beginning, that even included IP address block assignments, but (obviously) it got to where that data changed too frequently, and the publication was out of date before it even came out. So, to solve the problem, the IETF came up with the DNS, and the IAB identified it as a necessary part of the Internet's architecture, so it got widespread adoption.

Now, the rest of the information from the Assigned Numbers documents is starting to get too unweildy, too, so they've set up a web site that has the information (http://www.iana.org/).

Re:What vs How

[Zeinfeld]

At the very top are the 13 root servers, run by people like VeriSign. If you want to make the Internet pretty useless, take out those servers (someone tried a couple of years ago).

Someone tries every day, to be more precise there are over 1000 attacks against core DNS each day. Most of the roots are run on a basis that I regard as far too casual given the critical nature of the infrastructure.

There are not 13 root DNS servers, there are 13 root IP addresses which is not the same thing at all. Several of the roots are anycast so there are actually multiple data centers serving them. The number of root servers is much larger than 13.

Another pretty major omission from the list is OASIS which has roughly the same degree of influence as W3C and considerably more than the IETF.

The premise of the list is somewhat misguided. The standards bodies themselves don't have any influence on the Internet, its the members and the software providers who have influence. The point of the standards work is to get buy in from the necessary stakeholders, not to solve problems by committee.

Giving the choice between having my spec rejected by the IESG and having it rejected by Microsoft or the Apache group I'll choose the first. One of the big problems with the IETF is that many folk think that they are somehow 'in control'. Not on this Internet you ain't, if I don't get a chance to vote on who holds an office I don't see why I have to respect the decisions made by the office holder. I certainly don't see why I should wait two years or more for them to come to a decision.

I helped set up W3C when the IETF web standards effort collapsed. HTML was originally proposed in the IETF and turned into a disaster. When W3C was not interested in doing the work I do I played a leading role in one of the early OASIS Web Security standards. I am currently sitting in a W3C working group where the discussion has got into some particularly arcane details of XML.

Standards organizations are a vehicle, they are neither the driver, nor the road.

Re:What vs How

[rs79]

" How does ICANN make changes?"

It doesn't. That's the problem. It's into "stability" which means "no innovation, nothing changes".

Whenever a dictator takes over a country they say it's for reasons of "stability". Check it out, that really is what they say.

The reason in ICANN's case is trademarks and nothing more.

Re:What vs How

[crunk]

If the root servers were taken out temporarely I don't see that as being a major crisis. Most businesses have their own "caching" DNS servers that would work just fine. However, during the time the root servers are down you would not be able to view any new websites that just registered their domain name/IP, and who's DNS information has not propagated to the caching servers.

Cowboy Neil Option?

[LiquidCoooled]

He's a major body if ever I saw one ;)

Re:Cowboy Neil Option?

[narcc]

He's a major body if ever I saw one ;)

Especially covered in hot grits.

Re:Cowboy Neil Option?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell, that fat-ass is a PLANETARY body.

Re:Cowboy Neil Option?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fag

Re:Cowboy Neil Option?

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is why he's not on the list... It specifically excludes bodies which possess their own gravity and orbiting satellites.

Re:Cowboy Neil Option?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought he ate the satellites.

Lawyers for the IANA

[Macrobat]

I wonder if the lawyers for the IANA ever abbreviate their titles to IANAL. And I wonder if that ever confuses the heck out of people.

What about the other internets?

[thedogcow]

The article only discussed the major bodies for just the one internet. What about the other internets? Is there an ICANN2, IETF2, and ISOC2?

Re:What about the other internets?

[Anonymous Coward]

George Bush, is that you? Have you been hearing rumors again?

Re:What about the other internets?

[Minwee]

And don't forget about Poland.

Re:What about the other internets?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, join my secret internet. It's completely anonymous except for the servers^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^ H^H. You have to connect using a special spyware^H^H^H^H^H^H^H program.

Re:What about the other internets?

[Anonymous Coward]

$ stty -a
<snip>
werase = ^W;
</snip>

Finally...

[funny-jack]

Ah, finally a story where a post about Natalie Portman will actually be on topic...

Wait, they don't mean that kind of internet body?

Drat.

<shameless plug>

Re:Finally...

[Anonymous Coward]

I was hoping this article would reference my favorite piece of chicken.. =(

Re:Finally...

[Scrameustache]

Natalie Portman will actually be on topic...
Wait, they don't mean that kind of internet body?

From the pictures I've seen, bodies is right ;-)

Re:Finally...

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one welcome our Hot-grit pouring overlords!

ha

[Turn-X Alphonse]

We all know Google is the whole internet. It's like the libary index and filing system all in one, without it we're lost in a sea of knowledge without anything to sort it so we can find it.

Re:ha

[TuringTest]

del.icio.us seems to be doing a good work on its own, though. Pretty impresive, according to the little time it has been working. Without Google, I could use del.icio.us any day.

Re:ha

[i.r.id10t]

True, but there are other indexes, and of course the whole concept behind hyperlinking.

I guess the hard part is getting to a decent page to start from.

Re:ha

[Turn-X Alphonse]

I should point out that I'm not insulting the other searchs before someone says it. All I'm saying is google did it best and didn't fuck us over with pop ups, larger dicks and the other crap we don't want.

Google took the technology and advanced it, then they worked out what we wanted and added it. Now they have our support they don't suddenly pull shit on us. This is why google is "the internet" as I said. It's exactly what the internet should be, not what marketers want it to be.

Re:ha

[Anonymous Coward]

Who said I didn't want a larger dick?

Re:ha

[Drakonian]

Really? How do you use it? I've been using it more as a novelty/check-out-what-I-think-is-interesting thing. Please elaborate.

Re:ha

[TuringTest]

Yes, i use it that way too (not a bad thing at all). But check out the possibilities as a search engine.

Re:ha

[Anonymous Coward]

I did. You do not want a larger dick.

I'm a regular contributor to

[ackthpt]

I'm a regular contributor to WTF, the most ubiquitous internet body.

Re:I'm a regular contributor to

[WormholeFiend]

the World Taekwondo Federation?

WTH?

Re:I'm a regular contributor to

[spiralscratch]

I personally like to contribute to STFU, which is a close second.

Obligatory joke about porn sites

[GatesGhost]

there, i've done my part.

Neat List of Relevant Links

[NEOtaku17]

ISOC Official Page IETF Official Page IESG Official Page IRTF Official Page IAB Official Page RFC Editor Official Page ICANN Official Page IANA Official Page W3C Official Page W3C encyclopedia article ICANN encyclopedia article IANA encyclopedia article

Re:Neat List of Relevant Links

[Chris Kamel]

I think you should remove the "Neat" from the title
A good list still

Re:Neat List of Relevant Links

[DickBreath]

Neat List of Relevant Links...

You forgot SCO, the organization to whom you must go in order to obtain a proper SCOsource license for "intellectual property" in Linux.

ISOC/IETF vs ICANN

[elfuq]

No one (and this article itself) has ever really objectively described the compromises/disputes between the old internet governance infrastructure and the increasingly corporate-dominated and somewhat authoritarian ICANN.

ICANN is supposed to have a standards pillar. However all internet standards are really developed by the IETF, published by the RFC Editor and adopted by the community the way that they have always been. (The exception being HTML/HTTP and its derivatives - the W3C is entirely corporate)

There's some mention here of the dispute over IANA. Back in the day, it was just Postel, and he demonstrated entire control over the root servers. But now it's really not clear who controls the root servers, allocates IP address ranges to the regional registries, and assigns other numbers. This stuff should be transparent!

Re:ISOC/IETF vs ICANN

[legirons]

Go forth and edit!

Re:ISOC/IETF vs ICANN

[hta]

For the isolated question of what the split of work between IETF and ICANN *is*, see RFC 2860, "Memorandum of Understanding Concerning the Technical Work of the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority".
The bigger question of what it *should be*.... is a bigger question.....

Re:ISOC/IETF vs ICANN

[C10H14N2]

Postel may be gone, but IANA, ICANN and IAB still have the same address... as for transparency, there's a lovely little explanation of how-it-works here:

http://www.iana.org/root-management.htm ...as for anything else, erm, if you're really so concerned, have you ASKED?

http://www.iana.org/contact.htm

It seems most people love to bitch piss and moan about ICANN/IANA, but they can't pick up a damned phone or write an email (or, for that matter, type in the F@#$ing URL that is rather forthcoming about process, policies and procedures) when it's far easier to scream "conspiracy!" ...god only knows how many tinfoil hat looneys already ring the phone off the hook. Hell, IMHO, it's pretty superhuman of them to publish their address and front-office phone number in the first place...and godlike that they still get a damned thing done as a result.

Re:ISOC/IETF vs ICANN

[elfuq]

That was informative. Thank you.

According to the Wikipedia article on IANA, control of the root zone is technically still in the hands of the US Department of Commerce, not ICANN. Though of the 13 root servers, 4 are run by non-US organizations.

Wasn't China complaining about this earlier this week?

Re:ISOC/IETF vs ICANN

[rs79]

"It seems most people love to bitch piss and moan about ICANN/IANA, but they can't pick up a damned phone or write an email"

If you'd actually tried this you know how non-productive this idea is. I wasted 10 years of my life doing exactly this, only to watch a bloated and corrupt ICANN emerge in spite of everything hundreds of people did and now watch all our predictions about their future potential wrongdoings come true. I do not feel good about this.

When the US government was handing over IANA to "the new corporation" (ICANN), open-rsc (ORSC) was invited to "advise" them in the early days. What this amounted to was every time ICANN had a truly horrific idea and we pointed out what a bad idea this was ICANN simply took our adive by using it against us and found ways to work around our criticism by adding enough spin to makie it appear it wasn't a problem and of course they were prepared now to hear this criticism and had stock nonsensical answers for their PR machine.

The list of reasons why ICANN is an utter and abject failure is miles long. Put as succinctly as I can, ICANN is supposed to measure consensus and enact policy based on it. Anybody who as at or saw the Marina del Rey 2000 selection of the 7 new tlds knows how far from reality this actually is.

The video of this is still, I believe, available at the Berkman center. Worth a look...

As for conspiracy, I can give you names of people who have first hand evidence of it. Names you will recognize. It runs in the tens (hundreds) of millions of dollars and is he reason there are so few, and so lame, new tlds.

ICANN was born "behind the scenes" and has always operated that way. It gets more distane from reality every day. At some point it will implode.

Keep in mind ICANN, a $50M+ (and climbing) organization replaces what Jon Postel used to do as a part time "task" for about 30K a year. Except Jon could not be bought. Pity he died right before ICANN was formed. For the record, I first called him in 1994.

Re:ISOC/IETF vs ICANN

[C10H14N2]

ICANN is chartered by the US Department of Commerce. You might as well say that the plasma supply is controlled by the House of Representatives because the Red Cross is Chartered by Congress. It is the same relationship.

Re:ISOC/IETF vs ICANN

[rs79]

"ICANN is chartered by the US Department of Commerce. You might as well say that the plasma supply is controlled by the House of Representatives because the Red Cross is Chartered by Congress. It is the same relationship."

Right answer wrong reason.

The DoC, through NTIA oversees ICANN, but retains authority over the root zone. That is, DoC/NTIA must vet any changes to the root ICANN suggests. ICANN can do no more than suggest changes.

NTIA in theory will hand over this authority to ICANN once they trust it. The fact they keep renewing the current arrangement where NTIA retais authority means, in my mind one of two things. Either NTIA still (7?) years later still doesn't trust ICANN, or, "stakeholder consensus" (ie, big business lobbyists pumping tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars into the beltway) would like to remain, defacto, in charge.

I've been told that in a secret metting held by IBM involving NTIA, NSI and ICANN, IBM admitted they'd spent 2 years of their $60M a year lobbying budget in DC to prevent the introduction of new tlds. And that was more than 5 years ago. Vint Cert and Dave Farber were at that meeting. Perhaps they failed to mention this? Others who were are at that meeting, at the risk of their careers, have made this information public despite the NDA they signed to keep the details of this meeting secret. This was, I fear, just the tip of the iceberg.

Re:ISOC/IETF vs ICANN

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, I did go forth and edit, and they still haven't fixed it a day later!

They did catch how I vandalized the Vandalism entry though.

Corrected Link List

[NEOtaku17]

ISOC Official Web Page

IETF Official Web Page

IESG Official Web Page

IRTF Official Web Page

IAB Official Web Page

RFC Editor Official Web Page

ICANN Official Web Page

IANA Official Web Page

W3C Official Web Page

W3C encyclopedia article

ICANN encyclopedia article and IANA encyclopedia article

Internet bodies?

[savi]

Natalie Portman reference in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

and don't forget!

[BitwiseX]

The MPAA and RIAA! Wait did they say bodies or boobies.. too much coffeee..sorry.

OIC YAAA, OK

[FunWithHeadlines]

Oh I see, yet another acronym article. OK.

I almost posted to this...

[feloneous cat]

Heh, heh.... He said "bodies"....

Have we turned 12 yet?

Re:I almost posted to this...

[eomnimedia]

Why was the parent modded Offtopic? Major bodies, minor brains. Sheesh.

My favorite guides to internet bodies are

[melted]

My favorite guides to internet bodies are www.worldsex.com and www.thehun.net

Re:My favorite guides to internet bodies are

[IthnkImParanoid]

www.thehun.net

Possible slogans:
Huns do it on horseback.
It's not the size of the bow, it's the curve of the wood.
You show me your furry hat, I'll show you mine.
Is that a yurt in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

I eventually wisened up

[Scrameustache]

I wonder if the lawyers for the IANA ever abbreviate their titles to IANAL.

The first few times I saw that abbreviation, I thought it was like the "I [heart] Hucklebees" thing and my browser was dropping the heart character.

Didn't know why people were so proud of it... figured it was something to do with goats ;-)

Missing Abbreviation

[slipnslidemaster]

I think that a major abbreviation missing from that list that most of our fellow Slashdotters would appreciate would be "RTFA"!!




You know, Read the F*cking Article...

karma theif

[thedustbustr]

• ISOC Official Page
• IETF Official Page
• IESG Official Page
• IRTF Official Page
• IAB Official Page
• RFC Editor Official Page
• ICANN Official Page
• IANA Official Page
• W3C Official Page
• W3C encyclopedia article
• ICANN encyclopedia article
• IANA encyclopedia article

Neat List? If you are going to karma whore, at least do it right

He forgot...

[SmokeHalo]

BOFH!

Relevant Links - easier to read

[Anonymous Coward]

ISOC Official Page
IETF Official Page
IESG Official Page
IRTF Official Page
IAB Official Page
RFC Editor Official Page
ICANN Official Page
IANA Official Page
W3C Official Page
W3C encyclopedia article
ICANN encyclopedia article
IANA encyclopedia article

Smell

[Das Auge]

Who cares? They're all starting to smell the same.

Re:Smell

[rs79]

"Who cares? They're all starting to smell the same."

Duh. That's because it's different names for the same people.

If you google It seeks Overall Control you get ISOC.

And only ISOC. I'm sure that's just coincidence.

But, that's the way it's always been.

I really had to laugh at the story about the ITU taking over control of the DNS namespace and IP allocations. Say it doesn't happen. The I* people are in charge. Say it does happen. They all move over there and they are still in charge. That's just what they do.

You Missed One...

[DesScorp]

a href="http://www.danni.com/"

Over Macho Grande?

[mapmaker]

No, I'll never get over Macho Grande."

But

[Anonymous Coward]

What about INGSOC?

You DID post to this...

[Anonymous Coward]

and it wasn't funny.

Re:You DID post to this...

[feloneous cat]

and it wasn't funny.

Sorry, Mom...

Can't Forget Advocacy Groups

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't forget NAMBLA-OPEC.

Public Key Infrastructure

[gernsback]

Now if only one could figure out which heavenly "Internet Body" manages the "Trusted Root Certificate Authorities" that make SSL work...

Re:Public Key Infrastructure

[rs79]

"Now if only one could figure out which heavenly "Internet Body" manages the "Trusted Root Certificate Authorities"/i?

The companies that publish the most used web browsers, that's who.

The internet is edge-controlled, and has no central authority despite what any organization whose name begins with an "I" thinks.

My persistant question.

[MulluskO]

I've always wondered who is so close to the center of the network that they don't have to pay anyone for bandwidth.

I guess that ISPs pay bigger ISPs and so on upwards, but who, in the end, owns the bandwidth?

More importantly, is there any way I can weasel my way into the trunk?

Re:My persistant question.

[The Cisco Kid]

Note that none of the entities discussed in the article is a major network operator - while they certainly may have their own organizational network just like any other company or organization, they dont directly operate the backbone networks. Their roles are advisory and (sort of) regulatory. To avoid any sort of appearance of favoritisim, I doubt they even get any special deals from whatever ISP they use to host their sites or connect their offices.

There is no 'center' or 'trunk' of the Internet. Every bandwidth flow is between two endpoints. Large backbone network operators generally have peering agreements (eg I'll send traffic to you that wants to go to your addresses if you agree to do the same for me, and we'll do it over the same set of wires) and either in most cases any two organizations that consider themselves to be 'peers' figure that average traffic in both directions will be the same, so they do it on a basis of each network paying for its own costs to interconnect to the other. Sometimes if the traffic is expected to be unbalanced, there will be a cost recovery clause in the peering agreement.

There are facilities known as 'peering points' that manage and operate various sorts of switched networks (FDDI, ATM, etc) that an organization can colocate routing equipment, and then have a shared 'connection' that they are able to use to peer with any other network operators that are located there. These are known as 'NAPs' - some were established back in the days of the NSF, some came later. These are about as close to the 'center' of the Internet as you can get, but they are not the center (nor is there a free ride to anywhere else from them)

Note you have to have your *own* IP addresses to peer, you announce your networks via BGP and accept announcements from your peers - you are specifically NOT allowed to use any other peer's router as your 'default route' - you can only send traffic to them that has a destination of one of the networks they announce to you as theirs, and you generally can only become party to a peering agreement if the other parties think you really are their 'peer' eg that it is desirable for them to connect to you as it is to you to connect to them. This would generally be met by being a large backbone yourself, with your own connectivity it multiple (more than 3) peering points, and your own customers (such as ISP's, webhosts, businesses, etc)

It is also possible to connect and a peering point and obtain what you think of as 'Internet service' - its called 'transit' - and its another type of agreement you can enter, that specifically *does* allow you to 'default' to the router of the org that you pay for transit. You can expect to pay market rates for transit bandwidth, although its a pretty competitive market. You would still be responsible for locating your own router onsite, interconnections with the shared fabric, and then the backhaul to your location.

For an interesting read, see http://worldofends.com/

~25 biggest ISPs

[billstewart]

There isn't a center, really. In the US there are about ~25 "Tier 1" ISPs, e.g. AT&T, C&W, MCI, Sprint, which mostly peer with each other and sell transit to smaller ISPs and end users. Tier 2 ISPs mostly buy transit from two or more Tier 1 carriers, and Tier 3 ISPs mostly buy transit from Tier 2 or Tier 1, but there are more fuzzily defined relationships between providers in colocation space (e.g. some colo spaces are run by a single carrier, mostly using their internet feeds, while others are essentially real estate dealers, selling connectivity to between customers including connections to multiple Tier 1 or Tier 2 ISPs, and hosting companies buy racks of machines in the colo centers to use for different levels of managed services to end users.)

The big ISPs originally connected at the NAP peering points, but in the US that's a relatively small percentage of traffic these days - most Tier 1 players connect directly to each other, either with fiber connections between POPs or buy buying racks in "carrier-neutral colo space" like Equinix, where they can buy cross-connects to each other within the building. Europe's different - the big access points like LINX and AMSIX dominate peering between big carriers as well as small carriers.