RollerMouse Aims to Replace the Traditional Mouse

ThinSkin writes "Over at ExtremeTech, we have reviewed the RollerMousePRO, an ergonomic input device that claims to reduce pain and discomfort associated with repetitive mouse use while also increasing productivity. The idea behind the product is to have a fully functional docking station for your keyboard that allows you to navigate a cursor without much hand movement. There is an interesting Flash demo that illustrates how this works." Using a roller-bar beneath the keyboard may remind some people of the Outbound Macintosh-based laptop.

Comments

Rollermouse or Horse...

[Silverlancer]

Hmmm... Rollermouse... Horse... Rollermouse...

Re:Rollermouse or Horse...

[smittyoneeach]

cage match

ermm...

[grub]

How do I connect it to my VT-100?

crappy name

[Anonymous Coward]

not catchy enough, how about a farm animal? the horse, yeah that's it.

oh yeah

[JoeBar]

That's some slick looking flash

Re:oh yeah

[BackInIraq]

1: Design slick-looking flash demo 2: ????? 3: Profit!!

Re:oh yeah

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

4. Invent a HTML tag that causes the browser to reneder sentences on individual lines...

Two fingered?

[Oen_Seneg]

Seriously, it looks as if it would only benefit touch typists, not the masses of two fingered typists out there. As for me, well, my keyboards so close to the edge of my desk I have no space for one. Plus, I wouldn't want to bend my thumbs that far back

Re:Two fingered?

[moonbender]

I'm also a student, and I'm also stuck with a 17" CRT (stuck as in waiting for the damned thing to finally die). Despite the tight budget, I managed to push the monitor back a few cm/inches. It involved moving the desk away from the wall the same length, an extremely complex procedure which should earn me my engineering degree once I publish a paper documenting the process. ;)

And in other news...

[andy55]

And in other news, the makers of the roller ruler aim to replace the ruler.

My optical mouse isn't going anywhere

[hsmith]

Until they have a screen that can figure out what i am looking at and want to "click". Small things like that are as bad as the "eraser" and touchpad mice.

Re:My optical mouse isn't going anywhere

[PepeGSay]

what you want already exists: http://www.naturalpoint.com/

Re:My optical mouse isn't going anywhere

[Dan667]

boy I need to take a break. I read the "click" and replaced the "cl" with a "d" ...

Reinvent

[DigiShaman]

Everyone is trying to reinvent the (mouse) wheel these days.

Thank thank you. I'll be here all week.

Re:Reinvent

[Attaturk]

This sort of thing has been around since the early 90's.

What pain and discomfort?

[duckpoopy]

I sit at the computer no less than 40 hours per week, sometimes 12 hours in a day. I use the mouse very frequently and have never had any of these problems. Are they trying to create a market where none exists, or do some people really get a sore wrist from mousing?

Re:What pain and discomfort?

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

You've never heard of this?

Re:What pain and discomfort?

[Tenebrious1]

I sit at the computer no less than 40 hours per week, sometimes 12 hours in a day. I use the mouse very frequently and have never had any of these problems. Are they trying to create a market where none exists, or do some people really get a sore wrist from mousing?

It really depends on the ergonomics of the desk. Me, I've got my seat adjusted low enough so my forearms just lay on the desk surface; with my elbows on the desk, the shoulders are comfortably at ease since there's no weight on them. When I move my mouse, the only thing that moves is my wrist so there's no shoulder strain.

I see others with their chairs really high or desks low so their arms are basically hanging all day, or those who use those retractable keyboard racks under their desks; they have to hold their arms at a certain level all day, I can see where they might develop strains and aches.

Re:What pain and discomfort?

[the Dragonweaver]

I used to have a lot of wrist and shoulder strain from using a mouse. That strain was completely eliminated by doing two things:

1. Replacing the flat, single-level table with a computer desk, and
2. Buying a good chair with back support that actually cost more than the desk.

Seriously, folks, if you are hurting, figure out what you need to do to fix the problem. This product might well help you, but please look into getting better furniture. Sure, good furniture is expensive-- but it's almost certainly cheaper than your health.

And if you are having the problem at your company, and they refuse to improve the ergonomics, look into such simple things as support cushions.

Re:What pain and discomfort?

[ClosedSource]

In California at least, the most you could get away with is workman's compensation. You can't sue your employer for on-the-job injuries. Despite all the industry crying about high premiums, workman's comp shields them from the potentially higher costs of taking the matter to the courts.

Re:What pain and discomfort?

[kevcol]

I, too, am a rightie that switched. I used to get horrendous shoulder and neck pain after a day in front of the computer. I *had* to switch as I could barely use my right hand/arm for any task- not just computing. That was over 10 years ago, and I haven't had a problem since I started mousing with the left hand. Even things that require more refined movement like using an image editor (Photoshop/GIMP/etc.) that you would normally do with your dominant hand, my left does it all. Every once in awhile I try to see how well I can use my right hand and it's awkward.

Re:What pain and discomfort?

[TheNetAvenger]

Are they trying to create a market where none exists, or do some people really get a sore wrist from mousing?

Well, not sure of the product or their marketing ploy...

However, I do know that people that are suffering from RSI injuries, and using a mouse adds to the pain and discomfort they have, as it creates further swelling in the wrist area, putting pressure on the nerves.

Now whether a mouse or keyboard created the RSI injuries is up for debate, because even in the people I have worked with, it can't be demonstrated to have one single activity that created the problem.

Also, products like this 'may', like I said, help with people that already have RSI injuries, but one of the most effective and simplistic solutions for RSI suffers in a Pen Tablet, whether it be a desktop Wacom or a full blown Tablet PC. The Pen (or Pencil) seems to create less pain for existing RSI users, and pen devices are also cheap now and also add functionality if the people do any handwriting notes or paint on their computers.

(Yes a pen tablet can take a bit for users to get use to, but once they do, most prefer it over a common mouse, especially because of the absolute mapping and precision that comes with it.)

Re:What pain and discomfort?

[rawg]

I can tell you this... The mouse is killing my wrists.

I starting having problems with my right wrist, so I switched the mouse to my left. Then I started having problems with my left wrist (years later). I switched back to my right, but it starts hurting after about 30 minutes. Now I have a Wacom tablet and that is working out well for now. The only problem is that it's so far away from the keyboard and you have to hold something. I can't stand touch pads, but they might be a bit better if they were bigger. I try not use use the mouse as much as I can, but in Mac OSX you have to use it much more than any other system (like paging down and the cursor doesn't follow you, thankfully I have VIM on the Mac).

I agree with the person that was talking about tracking where I'm looking. That would be the best. I'm waiting for that.

Looks useless.

[GeorgeMcBay]

Looks like yet another high priced gadget to replace something that doesn't need replacing. Given people's various abilities (RSI, paralysis, whatever) I suppose there is a chance there is some population of users who might do better with this than a mouse, but just by looking at the thing and reading the review, I'll be damned if I see the usefulness to the vast majority of users. Especially given that it costs about 3 times as much as a really good mouse and 20 times more than the el cheapo ones.

How is this better

[Nept]

than the thinkpad pointing device? (the small red joystick between "G,H,B" keys)

Re:How is this better

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

I've got an Inspiron 4150 and I love my nub. I use it way more often than the touchpad.

Re:How is this better

[PornMaster]

I've found that using the Thinkpad eraser makes my fingertip tender after a long session of heavy mousing... in that really annoying way that kind of hurts when typing with my index finger.

I love my Thinkpad, and prefer the keyboard nipple over a trackpad, by far, but it's still far from ideal.

Re:How is this better

[onetruedabe]

A better "JoyNub" [that sounds dirty] would be between the H,J,N keys -- actually put it where my pointer finger already *IS*, rather than make me have to travel way past the 'H'.

Of course, they'd have to make a version for Lefties where it's between the F,G,V, and I'm sure that they don't want to have to manufacture two separate models, which is why it's stuck where it is -- equally inconvenient for everyone. [See .sig]

Another innovation would be putting a scroll wheel between the U,I,J keys (or E,R,D if you're a southpaw).

Try it!

--
"A Good Compromise is when Both Sides are Dissatisfied." Hail Mediocrity!

Re:How is this better

[sugar and acid]

I love the little pointing nub/joystick thingies on some laptops. Someone really needs to come up with a catchy name. What I would really love is a stand alone usb keyboard with one of those for a desktop. Does anybody make one?

Anyway they are great, as you don't have to move your hands off the keyboard to move the mouse and you can use either hand and share the load abit between hands. For some reason I tend to use my left hand the most instead of my dominant right hand which is weird, especially as I use my right hand to use a normal mouse.

Re:How is this better

[line.at.infinity]

than the thinkpad pointing device? (the small red joystick between "G,H,B" keys)

Similarly, how is this better than a trackpad?

Third party apps usually exist for trackpads that allow the cursor to keep cruising once your finger hits the trackpad edge.

The reviewer seemed to have difficulties with the rollerbar even after using it for a week.

Re:How is this better

[yotto]

*I stopped biting my nails (first time EVER in my twenty seven years! now if only I can quit smoking...)*
Start biting your nails again, and quit smoking. Nail biting is healthier and less gross. /ex-smoker, lifetime nail-biter.

Re:How is this better

[fanblade]

A joystick requires you to regulate the force you are applying in a direction without actually moving your finger in that direction. This roller works more like a trackpad, taking motions of your fingers and calculating the force and direction from that.

Up/down speed is controlled by the speed you are rolling the roller. You don't have to push harder to move the cursor faster. And as far as I can tell, lateral movement works exactly like a trackpad (sliding your finger). However, it does work like a joystick in one regard. When you've slid as far to one side as you can, you have to push harder to trigger a button that moves the cursor farther.

Use the TouchStream, instead.

[Linurati]

I love/use the TouchStream LP keyboard and iGesture pad from FingerWorks(.com). Not only does the Touchstream eliminate the reaching entirely, but it includes gestures which allow you to do simple things like cut, copy, paste, scroll, and many other things by doing finger motions. I got used to the gestures in minutes. The iGesture has the same gestures, but is a mouse-pad sized touchpad. Both recognize various gestures performed with multiple fingers at the same time, unlike any other touch device. The only downside (aside from the price), is that getting used to typing on the flat surface with no tactile feedback was tricky. After a couple of weeks, I was pretty much back to normal. I'd advise anyone to check out their forums and ask questions. You'll learn the good and the bad. For the most part, the users think it's the best thing since the study of ergonomics was invented. Yes, I RTFA. But I didn't like what I saw. Compared to the FingerWorks devices, this is like 20-year-old technology. Shawn

Re:Use the TouchStream, instead.

[jdreyer]

TouchStream kb and iGesture pad look like interesting products. But for a shorter learning curve, a generic touchpad solves some of the same problems, and can be integrated into an ergo keyboard.

Faugh on the mouse monopoly!

[ZiZ]

People are naysaying this, but I've been using one of these for a few weeks now, and it is INCREDIBALLY nice not to have to move my hand over to reach the mouse (and it has more buttons than your traditional laptop touchpad/eraserhead mouse, too). Yes, it's not for gaming, but if you're gaming, switch to a traditional mouse for that...then go back to an alternative input system which requires less motion, less stress, and gives you more productivity for the remainder of your computing time.

Re:Faugh on the mouse monopoly!

[Dun Malg]

People are naysaying this, but I've been using one of these for a few weeks now, and it is INCREDIBALLY nice not to have to move my hand over to reach the mouse (and it has more buttons than your traditional laptop touchpad/eraserhead mouse, too). Yes, it's not for gaming, but if you're gaming, switch to a traditional mouse for that...then go back to an alternative input system which requires less motion, less stress, and gives you more productivity for the remainder of your computing time.

Could you briefly explain how it actually works? Those morons at SuperMondoExtremeTech-X failed to actually describe what the F this rollermouse is, other than "an updated version of the OLD rollermouse". The pictures show what looks like, to me, a roller. This only acounts for the vertical axis. How does horizontal movement work?

Re:Faugh on the mouse monopoly!

[ZiZ]

Of course. The bar slides to the left and right and rolls up and down. This makes diagonal movement a little tricky, but it can be managed with a little care and practice. The bar also clicks for a left-click. You have infinite up-down rolling, but only so much left-right sliding, so there's a feature to bump the wall twice to move your cursor to that edge of the screen.

bloody hell

[kloidster]

I wasted the first 10 minutes waiting for the flash demo to be blocked by adblock, and then waited another 15 minutes to see a south-park cartoon that wasn't even funny!

Supermouse

[po8]

...while also increasing productivity.

One way to tell it's time to change jobs: Increasing your mouse speed and accuracy noticeably improves your productivity.

Sore shoulder

[Anonymous Coward]

Anatomy varies between individuals. Some people have an extra rib in the neck. Others have different clavicle widths than you do.

Depending on precisely where you mouse is, how you work, and how your body is built you can irritate the cushioning pads in the shoulder or compress the nerve bundle that controls the arm, leading to pain and numbness.

The conditions are startlingly serious. It's possible to completely lose the use of the arm. There's also a certain stigma, because externally the arm looks fine. People float somewhere between thinking the victim must be faking it to hoping they are because otherwise, you might be next.

The prognosis is pretty good if the victim takes it seriously right away. Unfortunately, the attitude tends to be "Oh, yeah, Sam. My arm gets tired too. Go home and ice it," rather than, "Hey Sam, I wonder if you might be doing permanent nerve damage. Do you think you should talk to a doctor about physical therapy?"

A related complaint that people often don't take seriously is ulnar nerve entrapment. Habitually leaning on one's elbow can incapacitate the ring and pinky fingers permanently, curling the hand into a half-useless claw. These nerve bundles are almost as crucial as the spine, but not so well protected.

Obviously not for 3D gaming

[Alwin Henseler]

Looks like yet another high priced gadget to replace something that doesn't need replacing.

Had to read into the review to grasp how it actually works. The idea: for up & down, you roll a bar, and for left & right, you slide same bar left & right?

I can tell you right there why that won't work: for vertical and horizontal directions, you use different methods to move.

Maybe for some DTP applications or WWW browsing that some people find this handy, but imagine doing freehand drawing or better, 3D games with this. Can you imagine sliding AND rolling a bar at the same time, and make accurate headshots? No way.

And then it's a mechanical device. Okay, maybe it doesn't get dirty as quickly/easily, or uses optical sensors, but weren't optical mice invented to do away with moving parts? I sure know I'd never wanna go back to a ball mouse.

Oh yeah, and it's expensive. Very. 'nuff said.

Googlefight it out

[mhesseltine]

The GoogleFight says Horse Mouse

Hey I heard

[mattmentecky]

I heard something about this "new" Dvorak keyboard that is better and more effiecient than a standard QWERTY keyboard, I bet you it will take over much like this new mouse will!!!!

Better than a touchpad keyboard?

[Tenebrious1]

The review and the website compare it to using a mouse. But keyboards with integrated touchpads that do exactly the same thing have been out for years. The question isn't whether the rollermouse better than a mouse, but is better than a touchpad? Especially if they're trying to say the movement of the arm from the keyboard to the mouse is causing stress, then they need to address how they are better than a product that already exists in that space, a product that costs 1/4 the price.

is this the product of insanity?

[pyrrho]

obviously the only way to deal with the problem of moving my hand from the keyboard is to use my desk chair as the mouse...

or as I like to call it the "ButtMouse"... (it's not like that you sick fucks! besides, that's an urban legend)

The ButtMouse works on the principle that the butt is the only free appendage that will ensure your hands never leave your nose... er, keyboard.... (my feet are already busy peddling power into my UPS), other available appendages refused to comment on my proposals.

Note, my other idea is that the whole desk, being already on rollers, could be used as a mouse...

Advertisement

[crnbrdeater]

I think it is high time for an advertisement category.

For those of you considering using slashdot for your company's amazing new product's free advertizing, knoock it off. It is annoying.

~crnbrdeater

Give me a break

[wigle]

For each new so-called innovative input device, whether modifications to a mouse or an obscure headset, are any of them necessary or practical? First, what is this "awkward stretch required for using a mouse"? I've been at my computer for 10 years straight and I've never experienced this phenomenon. The last time I checked, productivity at a computer is mostly a mental state, so having a special mouse/keyboard won't help you at all. If you're really experiencing strain problems at your computer, you might want to change hobbies.

Re:Hypochondriacs and malingers

[Ed_Moyse]

Erm. No.

When I was writing my thesis I had severe problems with my wrist(s - I swapped hands after my right wrist became too painful). I developed three ganglion cysts (big lump on the wrist - big enough that people would point at it and ask what it was) which had to be drained by the doctor.

I work way saner hours now, but if I start putting in hours like that again, I start getting twinges. I would pay a *lot* for something that stopped that happening again.

And for the record, since I was working (effectively) for myself malingering wouldn't really make much sense, and not only was it fucking painful, but I had a big offensive swelling on my wrist. Hopefully this would convince even the most harden cynic that something was wrong.

Re:Hmmmm

[the_mad_poster]

And for a tech site, they sure have a hard time advertising crap that's actually useful. I fail to see how this would work for anyone without slender, feminine hands. That thing is clearly too tight for me to use, for example (and, surprisingly enough, it's not because I'm a fatass, I just have disproportionatly large hands and have to suffer with a deformity that makes me look like a hairless ape.... I guess you can't visit slashdot if you're perfectly normal though).

Nifty or not, it's still crap.

Still prefer the Fingerworks Touchstream

[John Whitley]

The Rollermouse is interesting, but IMO the coolest mouse/keyboard alternative out there remains the Fingerworks Touchstream Keyboard. It's a keyboard implemented as a touch surface. It's similar to a large laptop touchpad, except that the technology used forms an image of the hand in proximity to the keyboard surface (no "double touch" issues). This enables "zero-force typing", mousing, and programmable gesturing support. Typing does require a period of adjustment and retraining. The payoff is that your typing surface is also your mousing surface -- you'll never reach for that mouse again. E.g. for basic pointing, touch and move two fingers at a time. For drag/select just use three fingers -- no extra "click" is required. Other gestures support scrolling, 3-button mousing, copy, paste, undo/redo, etc. Various modes are available for application specific support, e.g. Emacs, Programmer's mode. IIRC, there are also modes (possibly user-contributed?) for graphics apps such as Photoshop, Maya, etc. Fingerworks' open-source XWinder tool further enables window-manipulation (move, resize, etc.) gestures on various OSes.

The Touchstream requires no drivers beyond standard USB keyboard/mouse support, so it'll work out of the box with just about any modern OS out there.

While the Touchstream is somewhat spendy, there are also the more reasonably priced iGesture pads, think of a mouse-pad with a USB cable (and no mouse). These handle mousing, gesture recognition, and optionally numpad or mini-QWERTY keyboards. This is also nice option for folks who want to keep their conventional keyboard, but add the advantages of gesturing support.

(Std. Disclaimer: I have no business relationship w/ these folks, I just think they have a great product...)

Re:What'e the matter...

[jacksonj04]

Mouses. Mice is the plural of the rodent, mouses of the pointing device.

Re:What'e the matter...

[gimpynerd]

Mod parent up...
if this is true... Thanks for the information.

Re:Love the thinkpad nipple

[MrNiceguy_KS]

Let me rephrase that. Does anybody know where I could find a standard layout keyboard with a touchpoint?

(smartass)

(Ok, I admit I probably would have done the same thing. And for those who think I'm being lazy, I looked through 6 pages of google results before asking.)

Re:Love the thinkpad nipple

[pv2b]

Does anybody know where I could find a standard layout keyboard with a touchpoint?

Yes. I know where to find one! :-) ...

What's that? I'm overdoing the smartassitude?

Bah. Okay.

I'll be nice. :-P

Unicomp sells a keyboard called "On the Stick", which is a 101-keyboard with trackpoint goodness. Here's a link to the catalogue page.

As an added bonus, it will give you buckling spring goodness, as previously seen on keyboards like the IBM Model M.

I haven't tried the keyboard myself (I hate trackpoints, I'm a touchpad person myself), nor have I tried their specific implementation of the buckling spring mechanism, but my PC does have an IBM Model M keyboard connected to it. Type hard or go home! ;-)

Hope this helps.

ergonomically different != ergonomically better

[mossmann]

According to the occupational therapist who helped me recover from a repetitive stress injury, repeatedly bending extending your thumbs down from your keyboard onto such a device is one of the worst things you can do.

You're right!

[evolutionaryLawyer]

But anecdotal data are data nonetheless. You should maybe look up data in the dictionary (Factual information, especially information organized for analysis or used to reason or make decisions), it does not have to be statistically analyzed to be data.

Statistically analyzed data is much more informative, true, but anecdotal data has actually been used to justify medical decisions since the beginning. Only recently has evidence based medicine taken hold so that we evaluate the anecdotal data and see if the shit we have been doing has any effect whatsoever.

They work well, i've been using one

[Splork]

I bought a Contour RollerMouse in mid-2004 and have been using it as my only pointing device at work since then. It works well. I use it combined with my old GoldTouch split keyboard sitting on an adjustable keyboard tray. I no longer have to reach for the mouse or trackball and my hands have been much happier.

Flaws?

I use a dual head display, going from one end to the other usually involves using the end-bumping buttons to shift the mouse pointer over a bit. I got over this annoyance quickly.

I wish they made a narrow version with the buttons and such centered. I use a split keyboard without the useless numeric keypad so that part sticks out to my right as I have it setup with the split centered around the roller.

The reviewers comment that "it better be good at that price" seems a bit misplaced. You buy these because you are trying to save your career future and avoid RSI issues. Not because you want to be the envy of your peers and killer of first person shooter twitchers. That said, I hate the high price. Pure profit for them.

Re:Obligatory Fight Club ref

[kurzweilfreak]

The first rule of Googlefight is you DON'T TALK ABOUT GOOGLEFIGHT