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Lack Of iTunes Phone Marketing Irks Motorola

Alias777 writes "Motorola has criticized Apple for not marketing three proposed new phones that will be able to play downloaded music from Apple's iTunes service. "[Steve Jobs'] perspective is that you launch a product on Sunday and sell it on Monday," says Ron Garriques, president of Motorola's mobile phone division. In response, Motorola has delayed release of the iTunes-equipped phones a few more months."

30 of 86 comments (clear)

  1. Motorola's Loss by elliotj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seems to me that Motorola can complain all they want about Apple. If they delay their product out of annoyace at Steve, they're the ones who will lose revenue, not Apple. Apple is going to continue to sell iPods with or without Motorola.

    I don't get why they would even whine about this. They should concentrate on launching their phones and spend a little less time criticizing someone who has been an extremely successful businessman and might know a thing or two about consumer marketing.

    1. Re:Motorola's Loss by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Interesting

      why would they whine? to put pressure on apple.
      "hey bitches if you don't co-operate.. well, then we'll walk out on you and find someone who wants to do business WITH us."

      steve tactics don't work that well out of apple, if you don't announce anything the operators will assume that you got nothing coming, and will not do business with you. he's succesful yeah, but the company(apple) isn't extremely succesful.

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    2. Re:Motorola's Loss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      might know a thing or two about consumer marketing

      Apple has nearly complete control over the distribution channel for their 2% of the universe. They don't depend on anyone else to get products to market. They really can announce on Sunday and ship on Monday.

      Most other business aren't so lucky -- they need to get a wide variety of suppliers, retailers, services, and so on in line, and therefore can't "Think Secret" like Apple does. Press Releases and marketing previews start to matter.

    3. Re:Motorola's Loss by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Going by the actual quotes in the summary (and that I've read elsewhere), they're delaying the announcement, the unveiling, until just before they're ready to ship. There isn't a delay of the release, unless by release you mean "talk about it how cool it will be, wait three months, and offer preorders,

      Apple sometimes announces a product up to a month ahead of time, but more often than not that announcement is accompanied by other announcements of products that are ready to ship. Apple also has trouble anticipating demand on some items, so on really popular gear, they sell out quickly.

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    4. Re:Motorola's Loss by polyhue · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah this is a big clash of marketing cultures - Apple's (which they may be the only citizen of) vs. mobile phones, which are demo'd and announced often months ahead of release. Vastly different philosophies.

      I'd bet Apple contractually stopped Moto from unveiling them - I doubt Moto would acquiesce out of kindness. This is the kind of thing Apple would have in legalese in any contract for someone featuring their software so prominently.

    5. Re:Motorola's Loss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow... I wish *I* knew how launch a business as unsuccessful as Apple!

    6. Re:Motorola's Loss by tbone1 · · Score: 2
      Seems to me that Motorola can complain all they want about Apple. If they delay their product out of annoyace at Steve, they're the ones who will lose revenue, not Apple. Apple is going to continue to sell iPods with or without Motorola.

      Seems daft to me. All I can think of is that some Motorola marketing wanker is doing a CYA.

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    7. Re:Motorola's Loss by wtmcgee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, they ONLY have a "few" billion dollars. Guess they're not successful, then.

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    8. Re:Motorola's Loss by geoffspear · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Got to love Slashdot...

      Person 1: Hitler was evil. He killed 500 billion people.
      Person 2: No he didn't. More like 12 million.
      Person 3: Oh, so you must think we wasn't evil.

      Moderators: How insightful!

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  2. Motorola needs to wake up by Winterblink · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If anyone knows how to market a product that works with Apple technology, it is Apple. Conventional marketing doesn't quite fly with their products, and would stand completely out of place beside their current efforts. Motorola should realize that their hardware stands to make them a lot of money given the market/mindshare of iTMS. They should just learn to ride the wave when it comes.

    --
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    1. Re:Motorola needs to wake up by krel · · Score: 4, Insightful
      unless Apple buys a mobile phone network, they have ZERO ability to get iTunes phones to market

      Apple doesn't need Motorola because Apple doesn't need an iTunes phone. It's not like the entire portable music market is going to shift to phone-based players; those fucking phones are already cluttered beyond usability. An iTunes phone will only get more people to use the iTunes software , some of whom will use the iTunes Music Store, some of whom will be persuaded to buy an iPod.
      --
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  3. WTF? by Monokeros · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From TFA:
    Motorola Inc. did not show upcoming phones designed to work with Apple Computer Inc.'s iTunes digital music service at a recent tech show because of the pair's differing approach...

    Uhm. So Apple isn't marketing Motorola's phones for them. Motorola is responding by NOT showing their phones at a tech show, that is, they aren't marketing their phone at a tech show.

    Motorola is "punishing" Apple for not marketing Motorola's phones by... not marketing the phones??? That's bizarre to me.

    Why is this Apple's job anyway?

    --
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  4. In other words by FidelCatsro · · Score: 2

    Motorola is in the huff as they are not getting any free marketing so they huff and they puff and a slashdot story apears , Free advertising to the target audiance *cough*

    Now even worse , as they are not getting any free advertising they are delaying the phone and stabing a potentialy large profit in the foot , Has anyone told them apple make verly little profit on Itunes and make most of it from hardware sales ..

    --
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  5. Revenge by Goo.cc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Obviously, this is Steve getting revenge on Motorola for dragging its feet in PowerPC development. (Just think of all the money Motorola's lack of effort cost Apple.)

    1. Re:Revenge by DLWormwood · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Obviously, this is Steve getting revenge on Motorola for dragging its feet in PowerPC development.

      You do understand that Motorola dragging its feet was in revenge for Apple killing of the Mac cloning program, right? Moto did have a clone line (using the "Tanzania" mobo, IIRC) and they invested some serious R&D capital into the StarMax product series. They didn't even get the buyout offer Apple provided to Power Computing. As a result, Moto refocused their PowerPC processor line towards embedded systems and portable devices, reducing effort into implementing desktop machine friendly technologies like DDR memory and high speed data bus interconnects.

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    2. Re:Revenge by PCM2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      That would be some serious sour grapes, considering that the semiconductor division of Motorola has been spun off as an entirely different unit, called Freescale. That would be a little bit like punishing Lucent because AT&T Wireless agreed to merge with Cingular.

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  6. Older article by Lars+T. · · Score: 4, Informative
    From Financial Times Deutschland (March 11th) original article in German - (imagine a Google translation link here, the URL refuses to work when posted here).

    This article claims that Apple stopped Motorola from showing the phones. An article on Heise News even claims journalists were kept from making photos of the empty space where the phones were supposed to be presented.

    --

    Lars T.

    To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  7. blame shifting by kaan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "If they [Motorola] delay their product out of annoyace at Steve, they're the ones who will lose revenue, not Apple."

    This is exactly true, and everybody knows it, including Motorola.

    But consider the following statements, which one sounds better?

    "We, Motorola, are not done with our product that we have been hyping for a while now, so please trust us, it's not vaporware, we really will ship it at some unknown point in the future."

    or

    "Any delays in our product shipment are entirely Apple's fault."

    This is called blame shifting, and sounds a lot like what 4 year old children do to each other ("I only punched her because she looked at me funny! It's not my fault, it's hers!").

  8. too much complexity in the first place by Selecter · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Ya know what I want to do my my phone? Call people I need to talk to from anywhere to anywhere, at a reasonable price.

    I also want it to have nothing more than what I need to do that task as well. I guess I wont be buying any of these phones. Seriously, whats wrong with a phone being.....a phone?

  9. The Marketing Genius of Motorola by SnowDog74 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "[Steve Jobs'] perspective is that you launch a product on Sunday and sell it on Monday," says Ron Garriques, president of Motorola's mobile phone division.

    Motorola complaining about how Apple markets? Need anyone remind Mr. Garriques that the Apple brand, which just had its most profitable, highest revenue-generating quarter in the company's entire history, has achieved the status of cultural icon and introduced one "it" product after another since Jobs' return?

    Nevermind the fact that Motorola's current line up is, on an economy of scale, as unwiedly, unattractive, unimaginatively-designed and poorly built as the DPC-550 flip phone they introduced some ten years ago.

    Garriques has missed the point. Jobs' approach is right (big surprise).

    The more advance notice you give of a product offering, the more the momentum dies down when the product is actually available--especially if you aren't ready to deliver. Apple learned this lesson the hard way in the mid-90s when the first PowerPC Macintoshes were not being delivered in time to meet demand.

    Apple has taken numerous steps to ensure sustained growth... one of these is delaying marketing until the product arrives. Then they blitz... Doing it the other way around, you're banking everything on that first week. Now people know it's out there, big deal.

    When Apple has a great idea, what they want to do is create yet another cultural phenomenon. One way to do this is to rely heavily on word of mouth to generate buzz... Do you see ANY other computer manufacturers inserting logo stickers in their packaging? Do you see anyone driving a car with a Windows or Dell sticker on the rear windshield? You'll see it with Apple owners all the time (myself included). Why? Because since the days of Guy Kawasaki and the EvangeList, evangelizing has always been one of Apple's marketing strongholds... it has to be backed up, of course, by good product.

    Dell isn't an amazing piece of machinery, it's a discount box... Naturally, who the hell cares to advertise they own a Dell? Owning a Dell certainly doesn't signal that you have, indeed, arrived. It just means you're cheap.

    Another thing... Apple's stores... walk by... do you see how it works? Huge glass windows, uncluttered real estate... white backdrops against which the products stand out like fashion displays.... People are magnetized by it and go in. Make no mistake, every element of the Apple Store design was pretty carefully conceived to maximize marketing potential.

    Want a PC Clone? Go to Best Buy and search for it amidst a sea of heavily cluttered displays with unknowledgeable people who don't know the damnedest thing about computers. So there you are.

    Apple builds an experience, and they want to keep building it. You know... I never would have thought it, but the first time I was peeking into a Mercedes at the Mercedes-Nissan dealership that serviced my Nissan, the salespeople knew exactly what they were doing when they handed me the keys to an $80,000 S-class sedan with only these words, "Just bring it back before we close." That's all it took... I was hooked by the experience of driving that thing and could never be the same. Next car I got was a Mercedes C240 with a very competitive lease. Why? Oh, come on... they know I'll be back for more.

    So does Apple.

  10. Motorola. . . irked? by Kerkyon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Motorola hasn't delayed the release of the phone, it's just delayed showing and announcing the phone. From the several articles on the subject that I've read, Motorola doesn't in fact appear to be "irked" and they have not in any way "criticized" Apple. In fact, from the AP article on the subject, Motorola seems to be agreeable to the decision: "'We were doing it (the announcement) the old way,' Zander said." Alias777 probably should have read the article.

  11. But phones ARE different ... by __aadkms7016 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What Moto is saying here is that the marketing of a phone is different than the marketing of a normal consumer product, because the chain of sales has so many links. Moto sells in bulk to carriers, a carrier markets though an array of retail and wholesale channels, and it simply isn't possible to pave the way for a new product through those channels with "need to know" secrecy.

  12. why Motorola is complaining... by Malor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fundamental problem is most likely because Motorola's primary customers are Verizon, Sprint, and Cingular.... where Apple's primary customers are just people.

    The wireless companies take time to react to things. They are slow. They need to know about a product well ahead of time so that they can develop their marketing materials, do studies to determine the proper price point, and work out any implementation details on their networks. So Motorola normally gives them a several month lead time on new products so they can get ready.

    Apple, on the other hand, sells to you and me. We don't need prep time to buy an iPod, we just buy one.

    The thing is, in this market, end-user customers are a tiny, tiny fraction of the total market. Unless and until the big cellular carriers are selling this phone, Motorola just isn't going to move very many. The 'announce Sunday, ship Monday' culture simply DOES NOT WORK for their customers, the people who buy 98% of their product. Without that long lead time and solid coordinated pushes from the wireless carriers, an iTunes phone won't sell well. By the time the channel is really ready to start pushing them, the initial buzz will be all gone, and the product may never do well.

    This is a case, I think, where Motorola is right to be upset with Apple. Apple, however, may not care. An announcement today of products available in the summer may impact THEIR sales as people delay purchases. So this move is likely in Apple's best immediate interest. It's a big problem for Motorola, and may have a bad long-term impact on Apple due to fewer iTunes customers.

    Apple may be becoming a bit dangerous to partner with.... it'll bear watching.

  13. "Innovators Do It Innovatively" by amichalo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This article reminds me of those beach T-shirts "Divers Do It Deeper" and so on.

    The thing is that Motorola doesn't do a whole lot of innovating. They do a whole lot of embracing and extending. There is a completely different phylosophy at work:

    Embrace and Extend model:
    (1) wait for an innovation
    (2) wait for market reaction
    (3) reverse engineer competetive product
    (4) profit by reduced R&D costs, fewer "oops" moments (a la Mac Cube, etc)

    The key to this is to let the public know you will 'soon' have a product just as good or better than the innovator's, preferably at a lower cost.

    Innovators Model:
    (1) be first to market with a faster/better/cheeper way of doing something
    (2) DRIVE market reaction (e.g. get early adopter testimonials, etc)
    (3) build the product inhouse under high levels of secrecy to ensure (1)
    (4) profit by first mover advantage (Netscape), free publicity and market cache of being the innovator (TiVo), and hopefully market domination (eBay, iPod).

    The key here is to surprise the market, and competition, with your product. Ususally, Innovators don't have the manufacturing/distribution capacity to deliver mass quantities on day 1 anyway. Because the product or service is innovative, the customer really needs to see it and use it to perceive the value.

    So merging an innovator with an embracer yields this Apple/Motorola conundrum. Just weight the Pros and Cons of an early product announcement:
    Pre-availability Announcement:
    Pros
    - Media exposure (free publicity)
    - Market reaction to better guage demand
    - Price point reaction to better guage promotions
    - Use of the above to negotiate deals with Carriers to sell the phone
    Cons
    - Media exposure will be lower when product is released
    - Competitors get sneak-peek at what is coming
    - Impulsive customer base (young adults) may find their appetite has changed once product is available
    - Loose the impact/anticipation of an "unveiling"

    Plus, in this cell phone market, products promissed and then delivered half baked or way late (Sprint's Bluetooth Sony Ericsson T810 or whatever that was less than expected) really drive customers away.

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  14. This is all a smoke screen by commodoresloat · · Score: 4, Funny

    The real reason Motorola is complaining is that Apple wanted them to market a one-button cell phone.

    1. Re:This is all a smoke screen by isotpist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If anyone could figure out how to make a one button cell phone that works it would be apple and it would sell like crazy. My cell phone has way too many buttons (motorola C450).

  15. Forgot part of the process by chromaphobic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    [Steve Jobs'] perspective is that you launch a product on Sunday and sell it on Monday,

    They left off the last step. It should be: Launch a product on Sunday, sell it on Monday, actually ship it to the customer two months later.

    I love my Mac, but c'mon, pratically every new Apple product launch is accompanied by a long waiting list for said product immediately afterwards.

  16. I read this totally differently... by njfuzzy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This post puts a very strange spin on this...

    As I saw it, Motorola was planning to heavily pre-market these phones. That is, announce them and show them off long before they were ready to be sold.

    Then Apple said, "Don't do that." They didn't want hype surrounding something that wasn't even available yet. This is something Apple has been moving away from.

    So, really, Moto was going to announce these too soon, and agreed not to based on Steve's feedback. That's totally different from what this post implies.

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  17. Motorola Take *FOREVER* by autarkeia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Motorola takes forever to develop and launch phones. For example, the v600 and the phones based on the same platform (basically all of the vXXX phones with some exceptions) were all supposed to start shipping in Q2 of 2003. They ended up not shipping until Q2 of 2004, literally a year late.

    A couple of years ago one of my very good friends was hired as part of the small team designing new phones for Moto when they realized they were losing market share because their phones basically sucked. Even he didn't know when the v600 was actually going to ship, and he helped design the damned thing!

    Differences in marketing between consumers and phone carriers aside, Motorola has a horrible history of delivering their products late. Past performance would indicate that they are shifting the blame to Apple in this instance even though they have no idea when their product will truly be ready.

  18. iTunes Phone Delayed. How To Pay Carriers? by asjk · · Score: 2, Informative
    From Investor's Business Daily

    Details of the delay remain vague. But industry watchers say the Motorola-iTunes phones, as well as digital music on cell phones in general, still needs to find a way for carriers to make money.

    "The network operators may see some incremental revenue from digital music downloads," said Gartner analyst Ben Wood, "but it won't be the bonanza many predicted."

    Product details are scant. But the iTunes-equipped Motorola phones were supposed to download songs from a desktop computer -- via a cable or a short-range wireless technology like Bluetooth -- and store up to 100 songs.

    Although a potential boon for both Apple and Motorola, it's hard to say how the wireless carriers will fit in.

    Since customers would buy songs directly from Apple or download their CDs from a computer, carriers don't stand to gain much selling Motorola's iTunes phones. Carriers subsidize the cost of phones, so they want ways to recoup their money.

    edited for brevity