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MSN Sponsors Mensa
crankyspice writes "Fresh on the heels of Google courting members via GLAT advertisements in the Bulletin, Microsoft's MSN is now sponsoring American Mensa events, featuring Mensa questions on the MSN homepage, and Mensa will put MSN's search on their new homepage."
Look, I'm no shill for MS - I think their OS sucks dead bunnies through short straws, but frankly, who cares ? MS want to associate themselves with an organisation that likes to consider itself better than average, by their own definition. And the news is... what ?
I have no respect for Mensa, they like to position themselves as the "society of the intelligent", and yet most of the people I've interviewed who have claimed Mensa membership on their resume are less than attractive as candidates. It's almost a badge of dishonour... They don't fail on intelligence (but that's not normally where people I interview fail anyway), they fail on people skills - being able to recognise that someone else may know more about X than you do, and coping with that knowledge well.
Oh, I've not much respect for MS either (at least technically - I think their marketing is excellent), but that ought to be obvious from my tagline...
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Mensa will put MSN's search on their new homepage.
That's not very smart.
my pet machine
If there was ever a group of self-important dweebs who deserved each other more, I can't imagine it.
This will have what...zero effect?
People love Google. I actually saw Jay Leno mention Google as part of a related joke, and some in the audience began cheering and applauding.
Makes one think Mensa is rather...retarded.
To sum up everyone's responses to this:
1. No one respects Mensa since they base their membership on tests of dubious veracity and not on real world accomplishments.
2. And signing up with a deal with MSN kind of just drives the point home, doesn't it?
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
featuring Mensa questions on the MSN homepage, and Mensa will put MSN's search on their new homepage.
Whatever, that's fine with me.
It's just really too bad they keep spelling it "Msna".
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Here's a quick link to the wikipedia entry on Karma Whore. Karma Whore Some info on what Karma Whore's goals are. Karma Whore has three stated purposes: to post information about a topic that everyone already knows; to link to wikipedia, because wikipedia pwns; and most importantly, to sell his/her brain to slashdot in order to whore karma. (from my cortex)
Without a proper flamewar, Anonymous was undecided on what shell to run.
Call me cynical, but how many people will this affect in any way? I see Google or MSN search boxes on all sorts of pages, but I never use them. They seem like a strange relic, more of a "Look what I can add to my site!" element. If I want to search for something, I'll go to Google itself or the handy-dandy search box in my browser's toolbar.
On the other side of things, I can't ever find ANYTHING on the horribly busy and disorganized MSN homepage anyhow, so I'm not sure MENSA questions on there will even be noticed.
Given all of that... if MENSA has someone new to feed them money for events, more power to them. I don't think there's anything to really care about here.
You know what, I didn't. I've never felt the need.
Frankly, I'm not the "worrier" type who needs the justification of a test to prove (s)he's as good as (s)he thinks (s)he is. I've done it and I'm proud of what I've done.
I'm a clever guy - I've excelled in every academic test I've ever taken. (14 'O' levels, 6 'A' levels, 2 'S' levels, a Physics degree from IC, London, and a PhD at KCL). I have more qualifications (in spades) than 99% of people I've met. I don't see the need to be an arrogant SOB because of that. I've set up, run for a few years and successfully sold a company at an excellent profit. I've pretty much done it all - I'm now working in a dream job for a cool company in California and enjoying every minute of it.
And, in case you were thinking along the lines of privileged education etc., my mother is an estate agent, my father a docker, and I was the first in my family to ever go to University. Everyone has, since.
I *do* value intelligence (hell, I require it of interviewees). I just don't value Mensa tests. They're about as useful a measure of basic intelligence as the colour of the sky is of tomorrow's weather. "Red sky at night" will get you so far, but it's only a weighted average. Point made, I think.
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
It makes sense. A mensa membership carries about the same degree of prestige as an MSCE cert.
(Read: none at all)
Breaking news! Microsoft partners with Johnson and Hollings Advertising firm! This is important because Johnson just had a baby! Microsoft and babies!!! What next?
When you look at the state of the world, how can you not become a radical, liberal anarchist?
But trivia questions do not equal intelligence.
My favorite I've seen is a Mensa sticker on a beat-up Honda with no rear-bumper. Yeah, probably a teacher or something, which is a great and noble profession, but whatever happened to spending 5 or 10 years and getting a nest-egg to live comfortably(at least to repair the car and make it street legal! this one was really bad!).
Ah well, Mensa is the most intelligent Trivia people I've ever met, some are amazing and intelligence and pure genius, most are doped-up idiots. Sorry, even the country club will have intelligent people and idiots, Mensa is no different, no gold though.
Mensa is not really a society of smart people, it is a society of insecure people...who happened to pass a puzzle test.
Think about this for a minute...a good score on the GRE which consists of basic reading comprehension and 9th grade algebra gets you into a special smart persons club?
I plan on using a variation of these bullet points for my presentation. If any of you slashdotters happen to be at MensAGumbo, please come and cheer me on, say hi, etc.
Need a Linux consultant in New Orleans?
That was for an older version of the SAT. The SAT no longer measures IQ, apparently. Also, on that version, I would guess that a 1300 was around the 98th percentile, because they let the top 2% of people in. ALSO, it should be noted that Mensa is a high IQ society, not a high intelligence society (Though some people suggest defining intelligence as what IQ measures...) ALSO ALSO, sometimes I think about trying to join Mensa, mostly just so I could meet more people. And to rub in my friends faces.
Throwing aside any accusations towards the organizations involved and looking purely at the people within them and the intentions of Mensa (if not the reality) there is a great irony. MSN User #121402: OMfG!11!!onehundredeleven! im so hpy - C U L8r GurlZ! The fact that the so called "Top 5% of the population" in terms of intelligence would want to be associated with that is delicious. The society that centres around the use of MSN consists mainly of 13 year olds who have just discovered that they can post blogs of their useless opinions and hopeless angst. Anyhow, can't say they don't deserve eachother. I suppose I can see how Mensa might want to advertise with MSN though. I mean, they've got to perpetuate their member-base somehow. "Angst-ridden kids" is actually a step up from "pompus, elitist old men with no practical skills (but a knack for IQ tests)".
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
I have no personal experience with Mensa members. I remember being referred to the "practice exam" by a friend in high school, that's where I picked up some preliminary information on the group itself.
That said, my main problem with Mensa is not their stated goal of creating an environment in which intelligent discourse can flourish.
My problem is also not with the fact that, in order to accomplish such goals, they must exclude a certain (sizable) portion of the population from their "enlightened organization."
The issue that I personally have with Mensa is that their standards are established not to accept people with some acceptable level of genius and potential, but rather to accept people who are "better than 99% of the rest of humanity."
Thus, they are elitist in the purest sense of what I understand the term to mean. If their standards of admission were designed with the intent to merely keep the general body to a basic level of intelligence and competency, why index them against the average IQ of contemporary human beings? Bear in mind that, according to their admission testing, at no time can more than 2% of the population be members of Mensa (assuming universal application). The implicit assumption is that the vast majority of humanity is incapable of civil discourse and intelligent discussion (at least on the level that they would like), but I see no reason why this should be the case.
I see the sub-par intellectuality of humankind as a practical failure, the burden of which is borne by the entire race. To me there appear no deep reasons to believe that the population must be divided into the two subgroups of which we are so fond: the brains and the brawn. It is true that some people will always be smarter, wiser, and more capable than others. However, I see such considerations to be largely irrelevant except when one considers the scholarly pursuits of the natural and social sciences. And in such a case, I would argue that chance and circumstance (by the latter I mean the state of society and associated research at the time of advancement) play a role so important that they may overshadow small differences in individual ingenuity.
> Among many options, one only needs 1300 (out of 1600) on SAT. These days, MANY people easily get 1300.
You don't get a qualifying Mensa reading comprehension score with this statement. You need a >1300 if you took test before 9/30/74, back when it was hard. They clearly state that they haven't considered the SAT to correlate with IQ for over ten years now; 1994 was the last year they accepted those scores.
from a Google search result
Has MENSA even contributed anything to society? Ever? What's the last scientific breakthrough these fucking "geniuses" have had? I'm a college CSE student at __THE__ Ohio State Unviersity who's just had 17 Bud lights, yet I'm typing with perfect grammar. Let me in, MENSTtruation. I'm smarter than all those fuckers. Cocksuckers.
Mensa is the biggest group of Mental Masturbators ever.
:)
Seriously.
Accept their offer (cmon, anyone can score in the top 2% on a REAL iq test not those corny ass web ones) and go to one of their meetings.
It basically consists of "rah rah rah, we're smart and this is what smart people do". A few were genuinely interested in intelligence and brought some interesting puzzles--but for most of them its just mental masturbation to the extreme.
Most people there had no practical ability IMO. They were your typical college students and adults who had high GPA (I have a 4.0 and it means nothing IMO) but had no ability to apply it or do something useful. They memorized facts. Ask them something that they hadn't read and they'd be totally blown away and couldn't answer. It'd be fun watching them squirm
Real smart people don't join Mensa. People who want to be smart join Mensa.
*raises hand* Oooh! Oooh! I do!
.. because everybody knows anybody with the IQ over a mouse should run linux ;) .Albert
Microsoft's MSN is now sponsoring American Mensa events, featuring Mensa questions on the MSN homepage, and Mensa will put MSN's search on their new homepage in exchange for allowing Microsoft founder and CEO Bill Gates into their organization.
When asked of this peculiar action, Mr. Gates told reporters: "I tried the tests and the puzzles and stuff, but I couldn't really figure them out. Then I realized that I was the richest man in the world and I didn't have to deal with this crap."
Gates also spoke of creating a new organization tangential to Mensa, the Pecunia Society. "It has only one requirement -- just have more money than 99.998% of the world's population!"
"!"
Mensa's goals are (paraphrased): "To foster human intelligence, to research human intelligence, and provide a social forum for it's members" By and large, it's mainly only this last one that ever happens. By far and away the most popular regular Mensa meeting in London, England is the pub crawl.
Mensa is a Social Club. Members often have very little in common, but a common ability to think. While there is a qualification of a top 2% IQ score for entry, only a tiny percentage actually apply.
For the record, I'm not entirely comfortable with corporate sponsorship of Mensa. The fact that it's Microsoft is something I really don't like. But it's just my opinion - by policy, Mensa has no opinions
(disclaimer: the author is a member of British Mensa, and sits on the London organising committee (LocSec forum)(
... and today's pet project has
Almost every Mensa member I've met is an arrogent bastard who thinks they are better than other people; having spent a few years at Microsoft, I know they'll fit right in.
This isn't envy, when I took an IQ test I was literally off the scale. The highest standardised test score in the history of my school district was 176, I scored 212. I was disqualified from an 'intellectual' competition because I scored 98, when the second highest of over 100 others was 76, and I completed the quiz in 15 minutes of the alloted hour; they believed I must have cheated somehow.
But I'm smart enough to know that the value of a person has nothing to do with standard test scores.
While working at MS I treated the janitors with the same respect as my managers, because I knew that without eighter of them, the job wouldn't get done. One amusing moment was when the local grocery store clerk said she liked people like me, unlike those stuck up people who work at Microsoft, which was where I was working at the time.
I may be able to craft an exceptional peice of software, recall what portion of a page in a novel a sentance appeared on, and instantly remember 10 digit numbers backwards; but I can't draw worth a damn, can't sing, or play a musical instrument, am a terrible speller, and can't parellel park.
Everyone has different abilities, and just because someone is Rich, Smart, or Pretty; dosn't make them a good person.
The tests for IQ have been changing a lot over the last few decades. Groups like Mensa pretend there's only one score and admit based on that value. If you were to get a proper psychological work-up the doctors would actually conduct several different IQ tests (to measure verbal, performance and average IQ) and then list specific IQ values for each portion of each test. They can then compare, say, your "math IQ" to your "logic IQ" to make determinations about your personality and actual skills. In particular, they look at the variances to determine where a person is gifted and where they are developmentally delayed. You could have a verbal IQ of 140 and a performance IQ of 60 and a traditional test would say you were "normal" (your IQ was 100) when you're actually autistic....
The other thing that has changed about the IQ tests is the method and rating scale. Older IQ tests (even from the 80's) were biased in favour of a bell-curve result so that two people of similar near-average intelligence would be significantly contrasted while the difference between the "bright" and the "super genius" was compacted. Anyone who scores more than about 140 on a general IQ test should get re-tested using a more modern (more linear and usually open-ended scale) test designed to measure accurately at higher levels.
At first glance I thought I read:
MSN Sponsors Menses
And I'm thinking: gee, what a NOVEL way attract female readership!
I'm gonna go visit my eye doctor tomorrow
--- fyredragon
Jill: Yes (laughing).
Anne: What's funny about that?
Jill: I'm a former member of Mensa.
Anne: Former member of Mensa.... did they throw you out?
Got the quote from here.
They deserve each other. An overrated web service and a bunch of pathetic mental masturbators. Good match.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Eh? I'm not a Mensa member, but I am a member of a social sports club and an amateur astronomical society. They're called extra-curricular activities, and they're a very good way to meet interesting people with common interests and attitudes.
Both of my groups are full of people with whom I share common interests, and both are full of great contacts for other things in life if I ever want help. How is that different from Mensa, and how does that make any of these like an "old boy network"?
Just as my and many other people's interests happen to be in a certain area shouldn't mean that someone else's interests shouldn't be allowed to be in the realm of puzzle solving and so on, and whatever else Mensan's engage in.
http://encarta.msn.com/list_famousmensamembers/Fa
That's "the low self-esteem society' isn't it?
That was classic intercourse!
Contrary to conventional wisdom, intelligent people are more, not less, likely to be socially competent, well groomed, aware of what's going on in the world, etc.
That said, Mensa is a social club with highly self-selected membership. I'm not sure that its members are any weirder than members of Parents without Partners, a Sci-Fi Con, or an athletic club.
There's nothing wrong with a social club that draws together people with a common interest. It is just that in Mensa the common interest is one's own intelligence, with a tacit subtext of "only people who know how smart I am appreciate me, and I appreciate only people who are as smart as me."
I have never been a Mensa member; I have never been tempted to be a Mensa member for the reasons cited. I know some, but remarkably few, Mensa members. They haven't convinced me that Mensa members have enough genuine common interests to form a cohesive social club.
Being gifted is a terrible weight to carry for a child, because it shows and constantly expose you to jealous behaviours and sarcasms from other kids, their parents, not to speak of teachers. You spend years in schools trying to offer the smallest surface of yourself to the view of others - unsucessfuly, in general.
You think that it'll get better in college ? Nope, wrong. In adulthood ? Nope. Wherever you go, you are surrounded by the same poisoned atmosphere when people realise you think faster than they do. When you're that bright, yu soon understand what it was to be suspect of wichcraft.
Look at this thread : full of hatred against those folks, because they dare claim they're smart. Would they have claimed any other talent such as music or painting, there would be applauses of joy, but logical intelligence must be hidden.
So I understand those people like to gather, just to meet some of their kind. And I think there's a form of therapy in it. Bragging about it being part of the therapy, just like the AAs.
Being gifted is a curse most of the time.
I guess some people just can't win or even draw with some other people. The guy's explaining that he doesn't give a shit about what he listed for clarity - if he hadn't listed it, someone else would have questioned him and called him a fraud instead. He didn't go on and on about it in several sentences, he put it aside in a parenthesis *because it wasn't the point* and because he had a real point to make.
Stop being so goddamned cynical, nit-picking and condemning and try to nail people for the smallest thing. I'm ashamed that people reckon this is Insightful.
As a Mensa member, I'd have to say you're wrong about most members.
Most Mensa members are quite ordinary people who happen to be able to perform logical thought faster and more accurately than average. While there are some arseholes, just as there are in any group, most recognise their ability for what it is. Most also recognise that IQ isn't what makes you a good person, or a particularly valuable member of society.
It might interest you to know that those who score the top 2% out of the population can gain entry to Mensa should they wish to. Know also that Mensa in the UK has only around 40,000 members out of a potential membership of 1,200,000 people. The US stats will probably be similar. That means that there are a *LOT* of equally smart people out there who frankly can't be arsed, haven't bothered or don't think they are smart enough to join.
In conclusion, your perception of Mensa isn't the reality of the organisation or most of the people in it. As I said, most of the people are quite ordinary, from all classes, political persuasions, cultures, races. They get together occasionally for a beer or coffee and a chat.
Finally, if you think you can practice for the test and ace it, on you go. You could then throw the result in their face when you pass and tell them their society isn't worth joining. More power to you.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Being gifted is a terrible weight to carry for a child, because it shows and constantly expose you to jealous behaviors and sarcasms from other kids, their parents, not to speak of teachers. You spend years in schools trying to offer the smallest surface of yourself to the view of others - unsuccessfully, in general.
Being gifted is not a curse - failing to develop socially is. I know plenty of really smart people who were popular - mainly because being smart did not define them. They played sports, were into music, one did pyrotechnics effects for plays - all things that *were* of interest to others. They're all nice, well rounded people who happen to be smart - and are fun to be around because discussions center on things besides IQ and tests.
Yea, nobody wanted to be around the kid that bragged about a 100 on a test - and the really smart ones figured it out and developed other interests as well.
You think that it'll get better in college ? Nope, wrong. In adulthood ? Nope. Wherever you go, you are surrounded by the same poisoned atmosphere when people realize you think faster than they do. When you're that bright, you soon understand what it was to be suspect of witchcraft.
I don't know about your experiences, but my college experiences didn't involve poisoned atmospheres for bright people. My roommate, for example, was brilliant - nearly a 4.0 in Mech Eng / Nuke Eng, aced tests by simply reading 100 pages of a textbook the night before an exam, yet he was very well liked and respected member of my fraternity. Why? Because his intelligence did not define him. He had great social skills, and if you needed help in a course he'd take the time to explain things until you understood them.
Look at this thread : full of hatred against those folks, because they dare claim they're smart. Would they have claimed any other talent such as music or painting, there would be applauses of joy, but logical intelligence must be hidden.
No, the "hatred" is toward folks who seem to think intelligence is somehow valuable or makes someone better than another. IQ isn't a skill, nor is it particularly valuable - what is worth recognition is what you do with it.
We've all met bright people that exude the impression that because you're "not as bright" or didn't get as high a test score that you're not in their league. Any wonder people treat them like they're an ass?
You could replace Mensa with "people who think that living in a high rent zip code form closed social club" and you'd get many of the same responses. And you know what - many of the people who would meet that criteria are nice people who are well liked, and a few are pompous asses who think they're disliked because of where they live; never realizing that they would be pompous assess and treated as such no matter where they are.
Being gifted is a curse most of the time.
No, the curse is thinking being gifted is something you think others really care about.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
It's not that it must be hidden, it's that you must not flaunt it at the expense of others. Insulting the intelligence of others even in a catharic manner is unacceptable. Half of life is getting along with other people. With making sure others feel as though they are part of the process.
I absolutely agree that bright children have it hard. Does it suck that people of "average intelligence" engage in this behavior? Yes. Does it give a person based on thier intellect the right to return the favor? No. To put it in the terms of my grandmother (who only had an 8th grade education); Smart kids tend to have a lot of "book sense", but no "common sense". And trust me, growing up she tossed that one at me enough that it eventually stuck.
I don't think there's many people that use this forum that haven't been ostracized due to thier percieved intellect. And a fair number I can assure you, don't have that all important "common sense". In order to succeed socially, you have to be people savvy to an extent; and maintain an attitude of juggling the egos of others, not adding to or inflaming thier insecurities.
It's one thing to proclaim how bright you are, and to execute/apply that intellect at the expense of others. It is another simply to note that you are a person that knows a fair amount, but can always learn something else. Something new.
As for me, I've seen a lot of credentials tossed about in this conversation. I have some. Not that they mean much. I noted that long ago. It's not an accurate indicator of intellect.
I've also been the kid ostracized for being bright. Add on to that culturally ostracized for showing interest in things my peers considered 'white' (although I don't agree with his outlook on it, read John McWhorter's "Losing The Race: Self Sabotage In Black America" for more on that). I even remember thinking that indeed, I am brighter than most. But most of all, I remember my grandmother telling me that I may be bright, but I still don't know shit.
Blacker than my baby girl's stare. Black like the veil that the muslimina wear. Black like the planet that they fear...
My
Ego
Needs
Some
Attention