Scientists Discover What You Are Thinking

neurospace writes "Caltech scientists have successfully decoded movement plans from the brains of awake humans. This work has direct application to the development of a neural prosthesis, a brain-machine interface that will give paralyzed people the ability to move and communicate simply using their thoughts. The lead scientist on this project will be interviewed on Sunday, March 20, on the SETI Institute's weekly radio show, 'Are We Alone?'"

Comments

Hmmm....

[Anonymous Coward]

"Nothing for you to see here, please move along."

It seems like slashdot has not yet decoded my movement plans ...

Re:Hmmm....

[Anonymous Coward]

Or maybe it exactly has

Re:Hmmm....

[alexandreracine]

Soooo... what I am thinking now?

Re:Hmmm....

[Rick the Red]

Same as everyone else:

sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex

Re:Hmmm....

[Gilmoure]

I have some variety to my thoughts:

boobs, boobs, ass, beer, boobs, tv, boobs, boobs, game, boobs, pizza, beer, boobs, whiskey, boobs, where the hell did all my money go?

Possible other uses

[Bs15]

I wonder if this new science will be used to prove the guily or innocent in crimes?

Re:Possible other uses

[peculiarmethod]

I think we can all agree that the legal system has lots of laws in the very gray category.. the very reason we have many court systems, as interpretation is a delicate subject requiring, excuse the phrase, "a village to raise a child (law)".

This technology may be used to further the success rate.. but prosecution will always hold the risk of damning an innocent.

Re:Possible other uses

[ikkonoishi]

Only if the victim is paralyzed and you use this to let him point out the suspect.

Re:Possible other uses

[Xerxes2695]

It already has (to some extent) http://www.brainwavescience.com/HomePage.php

Re:Possible other uses

[Anonymous Coward]

You terrorist perverts better clean up your minds, pronto!

Re:Possible other uses

[rkcallaghan]

Oh dear please, no.

Talk about a literal interpretation of "thoughtcrime"! I shudder to think of the outcomes if our very thoughts could be used against us. How many slashdotters have thought some nasty things about our current president?

Besides, it says "what you are thinking" and not "anything you ever said, did, or thought."

~Rebecca

Re:Possible other uses

[FleaPlus]

PLoS Biology had a very neat article on using fMRI in courtrooms last year, fMRI Beyond the Clinic: Will It Ever Be Ready for Prime Time?. The first couple of paragraphs:

Functional magnetic resonance imaging--fMRI--opens a window onto the brain at work. By tracking changes in cerebral blood flow as a subject performs a mental task, fMRI shows which brain regions "light up" when making a movement, thinking of a loved one, or telling a lie. Its ability to reveal function, not merely structure, distinguishes fMRI from static neuroimaging techniques such as CT scanning, and its capacity to highlight the neural substrates of decisions, emotions, and deceptions has propelled fMRI into the popular consciousness. Discussions of the future of fMRI have conjured visions of mind-reading devices used everywhere from the front door at the airport terminal to the back room of the corporate personnel office. At least one "neuromarketing" research firm is already trying to use fMRI to probe what consumers "really" think about their clients' products.

But will fMRI's utility in the real world ever match the power we currently imagine for it? Is fMRI likely to leave the clinic for widespread use in the courtroom or the boardroom? Are there neuroethical nightmares just around the corner? Or are all these vivid specters really just idle speculations that will never come to pass?

Re:Possible other uses

[Anonymous Coward]

Pray for god's grace, or face his wrath via the state. Sounds like heaven to me.

Re:Possible other uses

[Anonymous Coward]

There will always be a deviance from perfect justice. Innocent people will be convicted and criminals will be free. This does not mean that the idea of justice is wrong. The goal is to minimize the innocents jailed while protecting the general populace (though not all laws reflect this). There is an optimal fraction of criminals to innocents jailed. Going away from this fraction you either unduly compromise people's civil liberties or you let crime go rampant.

Do not try to have a perfect criminal justice system. It is not possible (or preferrable). If you go to far to achieving this goal you let too many criminals go free (like OJ Simpson). The best goal is to at least have the criminal justice system be fair for any given case.

Re:Possible other uses

[Anonymous Coward]

Thougts deal with perception and interpretaton, not necessarily with fact. This means that some people can be very convinced of their own innocence or guilt, wile this not being the case. I forgot the psychological term for this.

I think you can make brain-joysticks by sensing brain activity in parts of the brain, but to interpret the miniscule complex traffic and put it all together to make sense of it, would require devices that are as intelligent and complex as the human brain itself. So I find it highly unrealistic.

The only way it could be used is a bit like lie detectors. When you're lying, you have physiological responses, pupils widen, breath increases, voice shakes, transpiration increases, blood pressure increases, etc. But unlike the US, here that can not be used as evidence, because it indicates fear, but that's not proof of guilt. As an innocent man in a chinese torture chamber, I'm sure I'll have much of the same signs. (Because the flawed digmatic theory is that "those who have done nothing wrong, have nothing to fear". It's how alot of ignorant people give up civil rights that protect privacy).

They could scan the brain and measure brain activity in response to names and other things that will or will not sound familiar to you. They might be able to differentiate between a 'succcessful cache hit' or not.. in memory. But it remains human interpretation as to what you can conclude from this.

Information retrieved in such fashion is by far not as accurate as let's say 'statistics', while even statistics (dealing with likelyhood/probability) on their own say nothing unless you attach the right conclusion to them. Reminds me of the bell curve: when the majority of the 'black' people scored lower at educational tests, the conclusion was that it meant they were less intelligent races, rather than consider the socio-economical (environmental) conditions for these. Here the statistical proof supported a completely incorrect conclusion. In the same way, fysiological changes may be a fact, but their interpretation would be highly questionable. I don't believe 'likelyhood' is good enough, .. it has to be 'beyond doubt'. Camera's, DNA, and digitally tracking are the more likely options. And unfortunately governments, in a need for control, will be willing to victimize 99.9% of the innocent civilians to such controlling measures and lack of freedoms, using the 0.01% as an excuse. It's happening as we speak. Fear threatens sense of safety and fuels need for control. So far, it's natural. But this control will can and will be abused for political and economic interests. That's pretty much a fact too. Power corrupts. As this info is made public, you'll be subjected to public (uneducated) judgement more and more, like looking for a job.
An effort for more control, includes need for abstraction and simplification, a more black/white view. Being criminal or not becomes a binary rather than continuous scale of severity, zero tolerance, etc.

So I think we have alot more to worry about right now (people not being able to get a job anymore because of a fairly minor incident 20 years ago.. since most employers who know about this, will choose to be certain and not take any risk of hiring you again.. thanks to services like www.ussearch.com), rather than worry about brainscans to prove guilt or innocence.

Besides, I bet it doesn't work on the many braindead people I see roaming around ;-)

Re:Possible other uses

[Anonymous Writer]

I wonder if this new science will be used to prove the guily or innocent in crimes?

TFA is about signals in the brain regarding physical movement. What does this have to do with proving innocence or guilt with crimes? "Scientists Discover What You Are Thinking" was just the title. It's not a story about scientists being able to peer into people's memories or complex thoughts.

Re:Possible other uses

[80 85 83 83 89 33]

sometimes when people are being confronted by an authority figure they feel like they have to be on the defensive, which inturn can be interpreted as acting as guilty.

hell, half the time the psycho owner of the company i work at is so suspicious of her employees that we feel guilty even when we haven't done anything wrong, just because she acts like we did. then she thinks we are guilty because we are acting that way. catch-22.

Re:Possible other uses

[Anonymous Coward]

Sinc my nu brane implats I have been a gud boy!! Someone els kiled the cat it wasn't me!!! Pleas no mor shokes to the hed!!!!!

Re:Possible other uses

[Anonymous Coward]

'How many slashdotters have thought some nasty things about our current president?'

I've said some nasty things about the current president, no ones come to arrest me yet, but I'm ready for them when they do.

Re:Possible other uses

[oliverthered]

sometimes when people are being confronted by an authority figure they feel like they have to be on the defensive

When was the last time a cop stopped you, gave you a bunch of flowers and told you you were a model citizen?

Isn't it their job to make sure people are being as nice as possible to each other?

Re:Possible other uses

[Jugalator]

Current lie detectors aren't reliable; doing one supporting that would just introduce more factors to make it unreliable.

Re:Possible other uses

[vidnet]

Don't think about polar bears!

See, now you can't avoid thinking about it. Just replace "polar bears" with "the body I buried in the yard" and you can see how problematic that can be.

Re:Possible other uses

[smchris]

Uh huh. I think the bet is: Will we see fully ambulatory paralyzed people at the mall before we see Mech Warriors in the field.

But I wasn't aware of the show. One of the reasons to read /. I've been frequently disappointed in NPR's Science Friday since about 9/11. Seems like they air a lot of soft tech segments: "What are we going to do about the nursing shortage" and the like. This show looks promising.

Re:Possible other uses

[gvc]

Sure they're reliable. They just aren't lie detectors. They're interrogation aids, just like bright lights, bamboo shoots, rubber hoses, racks, ...

Re:Possible other uses

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally, a thought controlled weapons control extension for Firefox! (is it a plane, is it a browser ...)

Re:Possible other uses

[MOBE2001]

TFA is about signals in the brain regarding physical movement. What does this have to do with proving innocence or guilt with crimes? "Scientists Discover What You Are Thinking" was just the title. It's not a story about scientists being able to peer into people's memories or complex thoughts.

Well, you'd be surprised to find out that so called complex thoughts are just as much motor activations as normal muscle control. They both involve the part of the brain known as the Basal Ganglia, the seat of motor coordination and control. The only difference is that the final motor effectors in the BG are inhibited during thinking. However, during thinking, unconscious motor activation may still take place in the cerebellum.

Re:Possible other uses

[Marvelicious]

"let too many criminals go free" So you are saying that if OJ would have went down, it would be worth imprisoning a few more innocents for?

You sir, are a moron!

Re:Possible other uses

[aardvarkjoe]

And if we didn't imprison anyone, we would be guaranteed not to imprison innocent people.

I'm not going to argue one way or another on what the standard should be, but the fact of the matter is that we just have to do our best to prevent innocent people from being punished, while accepting the fact that it will sometimes happen.

Re:Possible other uses

[kurzweilfreak]

I, for one, welcome our new Kerensky-descended overlords.

Re:Possible other uses

[TheWanderingHermit]

It doesn't work that way. If they're paralyzed, it lets them move their wheelchair forward, slightly backward, and lets them flash a light once for yes and twice for no.

Unless, of course, the paralyzed person is on Talos IV.

Re:Possible other uses

[MerlinTheWizard]

Hopefully not. Why not implant a device in every newborn that would call the police when someone *is about* to commit a crime, while we're at it? And then, while we're at it, why not kill them before they are born, if we can detect that they are bound to commit a crime sometime in their life? You guys are made to live in the "perfect" world depicted in "1984", aren't you?

Re:Possible other uses

[Anonymous Coward]

"shudder to think of the outcomes if our very thoughts could be used against us."

Your coordinates have been sent to the PreCrime Unit.

Re:Possible other uses

[wirelessbuzzers]

I'll take the 5th.

Re:Possible other uses

[Anonymous Coward]

The imprisonment of handful of innocents is inconsequential when compared to the greater good.

Re:Possible other uses

[hasdikarlsam]

This is the FBI.

We know about the body you buried in your yard. Resistance is futile.

Re:Possible other uses

[Marvelicious]

...the greater good? Steal that line from Adolf Hitler did 'ya?

Re:Possible other uses

[Anonymous Coward]

Pussy!

#int to ascii, ex.
#$ python intToAsc.py 80 85 83 83 89 33
#
import string, sys
for arg in sys.argv[1:]: print chr(int(arg)),
print "\n"

for kicks.

Re:Possible other uses

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Doubt it. What the human brain thinks is hardly accurate enough to be used as evidence. Police doing interviews will attest to that--people describing the same car as a different colour etc. Not to mention psychosis and other such things would give missleading/wrong info. It might not be as easy to fool as a normal lie detector, but I'm pretty sure it would be possible.

Re:Possible other uses

[Poeir]

I prepared explosive runes this morning.

(Same vein as Order of the Stick, once something's read, it can't be unread, once something's thought, it can't be unthought.)

Re:Possible other uses

[MrResistor]

Somehow I doubt the march of progress is going to stop here. It's far more likely that this is only the beginning, a jumping off point, like Columbus bumping into the West Indies.

I think I know what /. thinks...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because everytime I get the urge to come here, a new story is freshly up.

Language

[lachlan76]

Good as this is, what I'm really waiting for is a way to tap into the language center. Imagine: an interface which can work, regardless of the language spoken by the person. No more need for translation, everything could be held in a form identified directly by the brain.

But I doubt this will happen in my lifetime.

Re:Language

[Anonymous Coward]

"a form identified directly by the brain"

We could use XML, or SOAP, or a tin can on a string!

A universal language would be usefull, but so many professors and interpreters would be out of a job if we had that.

Re:Language

[oxymor00n]

A babelfish.

Re:Language

[Anonymous Coward]

LISTER: I will pick up the ball.
KRYTEN: OkayNow really think.
LISTER: I will pick up the ball.
KRYTEN: Thats right, now.
LISTER: Hand, pick up the ball.
KRYTEN: Hand, Pick up the ball!
LISTER: HandPick up the ball!
KRYTEN: Thats right, now. Keep going sir, Keep going!
LISTER: Pick up the ball!!
KRYTEN: Now focus down on to that and keep it going, sir.
LISTER: Pick up the ball!
KRYTEN: Hand Pick up the Ball!!! Thats right, sir. Keep going now, sir. Really think, now! Hand, pick up the ball. Now lets really get it going, sir! Pick up the Ball!!
LISTER: HAND PICK UP THE BALL.
KRYTEN: REALLY START TO GO NOW SIR!!! HAND, PICK UP THE BALL!! NOW LETS KEEP GOING!! KEEP GOING SIR!! YOU CAN DO IT!! HAND PICK UP THE BALL!!!! YOURE GOING TO MOVE THAT HAND SIR!!!! YOU ARE GOING TO MOVE IT!!!! MOVE THAT HAND SIR!!!!! HAND PICK UP THE BALL!!!! PICK UP THE BALL!!!!!! YES SIR!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! THE THUMB IS MOVING!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! THE FINGER IS MOVING!!!!! OHYESSBravo, sir.
LISTER: The sweat is dripping off me.
KRYTEN: That was fantastic sir. Absolutely, marvelous. It worked like a dream.

Re:Language

[rkcallaghan]

With movement control, comes Sign Language.

Re:Language

[peculiarmethod]

I disagree. We would not throw away our modern languages simply because we created a universal one. When money, technology, and culture are put together in a dying society (think native americans), the language is sually the first thing preserved. What use is all their 'ancient' knowledge if it can't be decripted? So if we do, the professors will most likely be paid more, and will be of the higher minded sort. This is my opinion on the matter.

Re:Language

[Anonymous Coward]

but so many professors and interpreters would be out of a job if we had that

It's unfortunate that many people prefer employment over human development.

Re:Language

[isorox]

What's wrong with stickign a fish in your ear?

Re:Language

[Danger Stevens]

The problem with that is our words for things may be confusing, but they are far more standardized than our thoughts for things.

Words are the handles that we put on our reality. They are difficult to standardize often even within one language because of the variety of experiences that different speakers will have associated with each word.

In computer terms it's like this:
A Mac, a PC, and a Linux box are all using the same HTTP protocol to access websites. They have identical interactions with the exception of the User-Agent header. This is like people using words.
If we were to plug directly into a person's brain in order to attempt to translate the meanings behind words it would be like removing the abstraction layer of a standardized http protocol and looking at the innards of each computer system. As each computer handles internal communication in wildly differing manners it would be much harder to understand what these computers were trying to do than if we experienced them only through their web browser.

So a person using words is not unlike a wrapper or abstraction layer - it makes meaning MORE accessible, not less. Universal translators will be impossible until we have properly mapped all the different meanings in all the different brains.

For more info, I recommend The Language War by Robin Tolmach Lakoff

Re:Language

[jacksonj04]

Cxu vi parolas Esperanton?

Esperanto (Background/Tutorials) has been doing this for a while.

Re:Language

[lachlan76]

I didn't say that, but to be able to convert the languages to what the brain can understand natively...

Much better than what Babelfish manages now.

Re:Language

[Escherial]

Mod parent up; I totally agree with this. Too often people try to get at the "pure" intention behind language, without realizing that language formalizes and refines abstract thought, similar to how mathematics and physics formalize and refine intuitive, but sometimes faulty concepts about how numbers and objects work.

Re:Language

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a frog in your bidet?

Re:Language

[Flendon]

The bablefish excretes pure thought waves. What could be better than that?

Re:Language

[Punboy]

ever notice that you think in your native language? wouldnt help much if the thoughts you're thinking are in a foreign language.

Re:Language

[lachlan76]

If that's what people are thinking, no wonder bush was elected ;)

Re:Language

[lachlan76]

But at a lower level it is being translated to something else.

Re:Language

[jericho4.0]

The Babel Fish.

Re:Language

[Flendon]

You would rather have Kerry running things? His thoughts were pure excrement.

Seriously though, Bush may have his bad points, but Kerry would have ruined this country. Everyone is so quick to bash Bush's record without thinking about what Kerry would have done in each situation.

Now that I've defended Bush on slashdot I better hide.

Re:Language

[lachlan76]

Well personally I'd rather the US have a president who isn't going to "liberate" the entire world.

But maybe that's because i'm in another country.

Re:Language

[Ziviyr]

I don't think in my native language, too effin' cumbersome.

Re:Language

[lachlan76]

I know the babel fish, and it has had some of the worst translations imaginable for me ;)

Re:Language

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody knows what would have happened with Kerry in office, since, well, he never came to office. The point is, though, things are terrible with Bush. A less trigger-happy, backwards-thinking president would certainly have been a better option.

Re:Language

[m50d]

How do you know this? Babies from different countries "talk" the same up to a certain age, if everyone's thoughts were different as you assume surely they would all talk differently (even within the same country until they learnt that country's language). It could be more like a load of identical machines, only some of them are on an Ethernet network while others are using Token Ring.

Re:Language

[Dun Malg]

Babies from different countries "talk" the same up to a certain age, if everyone's thoughts were different as you assume surely they would all talk differently

Babies aren't "speaking" their thoughts. Babies don't talk. What you hear is crude vocalizations, determined primarily by the physical shape of the equipment. There are no specific thoughts attached to those noises, any more than their spasmodic leg kicking and arm waving are "walking" and "reaching". There is no universal language of thought, and no one is ever going to invent a "baby translator" either.

Re:Language

[Joe Random]

How do you know this? Babies from different countries "talk" the same up to a certain age, if everyone's thoughts were different as you assume surely they would all talk differently (even within the same country until they learnt that country's language)

If you were referring to babies babbling, that is no more equivalent to talking than a computer spewing out random ASCII characters is equivalent to serving a webpage.

Just because a group of computers is using the same character set doesn't mean that they're using the same language. Hell, they need not even have the same internal representation of information, relying instead on a specific piece of hardware to interface with the outside world. Similarly, just because babies babble the same complete set of phonemes doesn't mean that they speak the same "language", nor does it imply that they share any sort of internal representation. They just happen to all have the same output hardware.

Re:Language

[sarahemm]

It would also be a much much cleaner interface for a VOCA (portable speech device that speaks for those who can't), as we wouldn't need to worry about the entry of speech to be spoken, as we do now.

Re:Language

[simcop2387]

i think in perl you insesitive clod!

Re:Language

[drinkypoo]

But is that really the way the brain works? As we know, every brain is different, and the things you learn cause actual physical pathway changes in your brain. The very act of learning a language - any language - might make that very same thing impossible. Besides, who says the brain can identify ANYTHING directly, unless you're not even using language at all, and working with sensory data. Colors, smells, et cetera.

Re:Language

[Jim Starx]

I'm horrible with foreign languages, but I've spoken with others who are bilingual. They've told me that the way they knew they had become fluent was that they switched from thinking in their first language and then translating into their second to simple thinking in the second language.

I can't even comprehend what it would be like to think in another language. Foreign language classes are the only classes I have ever truely and miserably flunked.

Re:Language

[jericho4.0]

lol. I belive you are still missing the point. Click the damn link :-)

Re:Language

[mOdQuArK!]

Seriously though, Bush may have his bad points, but Kerry would have ruined this country.

Gee, a President who would've thought about his actions instead of issuing policies based on kneejerk responses & crony advice, and a President who had actually commanded military groups in _real_ combat, instead of the current chickenhawk-laden administration. Yeah, sounds like someone who would've ruined the country.

Everyone is so quick to bash Bush's record without thinking about what Kerry would have done in each situation.

That's because most Kerry supporters _know_ that he would've made more intelligent decisions in just about every situation. Those decisions might not have been aggressive enough to make Kerry one of the "great" presidents, but compared to what Dubya's decisions have done to the infrastructure & rep of the U.S., _any_ competent non-"neo-con" would have brought us to a better world right now.

Re:Language

[HiThere]

Among other things, you seem to be assuming that people who use the same language map thoughts in the same way. I'm nearly certain that this is incorrect.

I have partial and incomplete model of the ways that people map their thoughts, and it already predicts 16 different ways based on the primary data structures used to represent meaning. (It also predicts that most programmers will fall into only 4 of those groups, and primarily into two of them.) The different modes of thought yield different strengths and weaknesses,so a mix is an evolutionarily stable strategy.

Now I'm certain, as I said, that my model is incomplete (though I doubt that it's essentially wrong), but this would merely imply that I have underestimated the modalities of thought.

AND I haven't yet mentioned language! So we can assume that all this variation happens within speakers of the same language. (All my observations were done on speakers of english...but this is based on research by C.G.Jung who did work with German speaking people. I presume that similar work could be done with Chinese or Hindi...the Chakra system has a very different flavor, but it also implies that different people have different ways of thinking, if I understand what the classical people were getting at [rather than the gibberish that some who don't understand it spout].)

I seriously doubt that there is a separate classification of the ways of handling thoughts for every individual person, but certainly the variation is quite large. And it's possible that the language spoken adds another layer, but I wouldn't bet that way. Rather I would say that the language will reinforce the tendency to think in certain ways, and inhibit the tendency to think in others. Rather like Python and Fortran. Generally you CAN say anything in one that you can in the other -- but you tend to say different things.

Re:Language

[inertia187]

Good as this is, what I'm really waiting for is a way to tap into the language center.

Seems like yet another self help topic to me.

Re:Language

[ralphclark]

The posters arguing that an individual's synaptic firing patterns for a given concept are completely unique, are merely guessing on the basis of what seems most likely given what they know.

But more recent brain imaging studies suggest that there is more commonality between individuals in how concepts are represented in the brain than was previously believed.

I would hazard a guess that abstract concepts will vary more widely in terms of their synaptic representation, just as every individual's inner understanding of such concepts has a different flavour. Especially across cultures. But concrete objects and the most common down-to-earth abstract notions may yet prove to be represented in a very similar way from brain to brain.

Should be interesting...

[nbharatvarma]

If we could find the mechanical outcome of what we think when we listen to music.

Re:Should be interesting...

[Anonymous Coward]

Or what about the mechanical outcome when we see a pretty woman?

*watches prosthetic penis rise up 600 times a day*

Re:Should be interesting...

[FleaPlus]

If we could find the mechanical outcome of what we think when we listen to music.

There was actually Nature paper a few days ago about that very topic:

Musical imagery: Sound of silence activates auditory cortex

Auditory imagery occurs when one mentally rehearses telephone numbers or has a song 'on the brain' -- it is the subjective experience of hearing in the absence of auditory stimulation, and is useful for investigating aspects of human cognition1. Here we use functional magnetic resonance imaging to identify and characterize the neural substrates that support unprompted auditory imagery and find that auditory and visual imagery seem to obey similar basic neural principles.

Here's a popular press article.

"We played music in the scanner (FMRI) and then we hit a virtual "mute' button," said David Kraemer, a graduate student in Dartmouth's Psychological and Brain Sciences Department and author of the study, published recently in the journal Nature.

With familiar songs, "we found that people couldn't help continuing the song in their heads, and when they did this, the auditory cortex remained active even though the music had stopped," Kraemer said.

The researchers said the findings extend previous research that showed sensory-specific memories are stored in the brain regions that first experienced those events.

"It's fascinating that although the ear isn't actually hearing the song, the brain is perceptually hearing it," said co-author William Kelley, assistant professor of psychological and brain sciences.

Re:Should be interesting...

[Cobblepop]

un:blahblah765 pw:blahblahblah That'll get you in to Nature.com, but somebody's gotta pony up the $30 before anyone can read it...

Re:Should be interesting...

[Poromenos1]

Actually, I think that's why sometimes when you stop a song while playing, it gets stuck in your mind all day, and won't go away until you listen to it until the end. That's what happens to me, anyway.

Re:Should be interesting...

[trickyboy]

Is this not the "last song syndrome"? I do always have the tendency to sing the music again whenever the music stops or even when I hear a song and then a few munites after the song has played i can sing it again!

Mandatory

[Anonymous Coward]

We can rebuild him. We have the technology.

We have the capability to make the world's first Bionic man.

Steve Austin will be that man. Better than he was before.

Better . . . stronger . . . faster.

- Julio

The time is ripe....

[SeventyBang]

...for "The Genesis Machine" (James P. Hogan) to become a movie. The BIAC (Biological Interactive Computer) play directly into this.
Besides, it's a good book. And it's use of promoting iconoclasm (and winning) isn't bad, either.

uh oh..

[Keruo]

"two pennies of your thoughts"

"humm"

EWGAD *slap*

please think of the humanity and patent this quick

Prosthetics are great but..

[Anonymous Coward]

...giant robots are much cooler and also possible with this technology. Bring me my EVA, please.

Re:Prosthetics are great but..

[ikkonoishi]

I would prefer a robot that did not blind the pilot with pain when it is damaged...

Pain serves a useful "don't do that" function when it is from your body, but in a robot that can be repaired when the fight is over it is just an unneeded distraction.

Sex over IP ?

[shadowdata]

If thoughts can be decoded and translated into binary and transmitted across the net , can we have the real cybersex ????? :P

Re:Sex over IP ?

[tsioc]

that would include stimulating your brain, not just reading it... possibly more than just your brain

Re:Sex over IP ?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're beaming thoughts straight into your brain, then does the physical distance between you and your partner make any difference? Ie, is there any need for the "cyber" in "cybersex"?

Re:Sex over IP ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine when a worm eploits a security hole in the new Sex over IP protocol ......

Re:Sex over IP ?

[iwan-nl]

Stimulation of other parts of the body is unnesessary if/when the signals this stimulation would trigger can be sent right into the brain. The brain would not know the difference between real stimulation and recorded or emulated signals.

Sending data right into the brain could make matrix-like simulations possible. However, it will probably take a lot of time before we have reverse engineered all of the brain's data structures.

Re:Sex over IP ?

[fyngyrz]

does the physical distance between you and your partner make any difference?

Of course -- latency will affect your perception of your partner's reactions, and the delivery of your response to your partner. How could it not make a difference?

The further away you are in space, the more latency you'll have to deal with. That's just with normal EM delivery of information. Add communications paths with uncertain and variable delivery times (like the Internet) and you'd really have some challenging changes in perception to deal with.

Re:Sex over IP ?

[Anonymous Coward]

It would bring a whole new meaning to "STD".

Re:Sex over IP ?

[Penguinshit]

Imagine all the fun that could be had with buffer-overruns...br.

Re:Sex over IP ?

[Penguinshit]

I thought a "worm" "exploiting a security hole" was the whole idea behind regular physical sex...

It's not that hard

[Scorillo47]

You have to detect the presence of a few general classes of thoughts: up/down. left-right. With only these two dimensions you can then do anything. But this is still far from being real "thought reading".

Re:It's not that hard

[peculiarmethod]

But this is still far from being real "thought reading".

I knew you would say that.

Re:It's not that hard

[ikkonoishi]

I knew you would think that you knew he would say that.

Also your obsession with small dogs in raincoats is getting out of hand.

Re:It's not that hard

[Anonymous Coward]

up/down. left-right. With only these two dimensions you can then do anything.

If you're a two dimensional being, yeah. How do you intend to move towards or away from something?

Re:It's not that hard

[fmobus]

Well, actually you only need to decode to signals: 0 and 1.

Re:It's not that hard

[Morky]

You forgot in/out. Some geek you are.

Re:It's not that hard

[Murphy Murph]

You have to detect the presence of a few general classes of thoughts: up/down. left-right. With only these two dimensions you can then do anything.

My life will not be complete until they also are able to detect the all important A, B, Select, and Start thoughts.

up-up-down-down-left-right- left-right-B-A-select-start

Re:It's not that hard

[marcuspl]

How does it differ from real "thought reading"? If the outcome is the same, say an (bionic?) arm is moved from A to B, and that is the desired outcome, how does this "thought reading" differ from your standard "internal" though reading (as in "parsing some stuff in the ventrolateral prefrontal cortex and act on it)?

Re:It's not that hard

[88NoSoup4U88]

You have to detect the presence of a few general classes of thoughts: up/down. left-right.

And while you're at it, also include B, A, and Start, so we can at least enter the Konami code.

Re:It's not that hard

[roman_mir]

You are all just pigments of my imagination.

Re:It's not that hard

[Autobahn]

You have to detect the presence of a few general classes of thoughts: up/down. left-right.

Unfortunately this is not correct. Although the literature is not complete in this area, it is believed that the brain encodes movement in two forms: spatial coordinates and joint velocity vectors. That is, the brain knows where you want to go in an (x,y,z) sense, and it knows the change in joint angles that will get you there (which is learned from past experience). Predicting where the arm will go is a matter of decoding the (x,y,z), but what you really need for a neuroprosthesis is the joint velocity vector, which occurs later in the system and is harder to determine because it's adaptive. The technique used by these researchers is essentially a sophisticated form of correlation: neuron A fired and the arm went to (1,2,3), so A represents position (1,2,3) etc. What we need for a prosthesis is neuron B fired and set the 7 joint angles to (x,y,z, etc). Even this may not be sufficient because it doesn't account for things like reaching around an obstacle, where your arm moves to the same point but with a different set of joint rotations.

And yes, IAACS (cognitive scientist).

Re:It's not that hard

[fyngyrz]

That remark was decidedly off-color.

Re:It's not that hard

[sillybilly]

I have a hard enough time deciphering what I'm thinking, especially subconscious things - now they can maybe help me better understand.

Re:It's not that hard

[Ikester8]

That's enough for armagetron. Look, no hands!

There's DRM in my DNA

[datafr0g]

Scientists may record what I am thinking, but it won't be free, and they can only pass it on to a maximum of 3 other scientists.
However the effort required to sign up for these DRM'ed thoughts involves signing up to all sorts of "special deals", hurdles, traps - god forbid anyone actually read the license.
The quality of these DRM'ed thoughts may also be substandard.... but hey, at least those drunk ramblings will be legit!

Scientists Discover What You Are Thinking

[ikkonoishi]

In a word.
Porn.

Re:Scientists Discover What You Are Thinking

[Threni]

Yeah. I already know what I'm thinking, and I don't care for others to know. What if they discover I'm thinking the wrong things?

Re:Scientists Discover What You Are Thinking

[Silentnite]

Yeah, they say a man thinks about it every seven seconds, but given that we are geeks, what power does that raise that too?

Me personally, I think every seven seconds I revert back to a normal human being for a second or so.

What do Terrorists and Politicians think about it?

[meridian]

This technology is great, just think, if it was made small enough and be powered by the great wattage of our own brains that run enough electricity to power a light bulb, we could have them installed incognito into suspected terrorists and find out their plans! Even better we could as people demand them installed into our politicians so we know why they write the laws they do. It sounds like great stuff to me!

Look out!

[dauthur]

Oh shyte, here comes the return of the tin-hat men!

Re:Look out!

[Anonymous Coward]

Return? We never left.

revolution

[tsioc]

is this nintendo's "revolution"? doubt it but this open up many possibilities I would be afraid to use it for driving... I see someone attractive walking on the side of the road and the car turns towards her and runs her over! would be useful for entertainment though, in addition to helping people with physical disabilities of course...

Re:revolution

[krisennay]

yea really...

Re:revolution

[peculiarmethod]

it would be coded into a car navigation that if your pupils dilated, temperature rose, and your heart rate sped up along with a larger than usual degree of change in navigation (eye sight as you put it), it would error-correct itself.. at such a point, it would have algy's in there to recognize the rose, and know you must be in trouble to try and run of the rode into an object at that point.. so it would maintain course unless more stimuli were present (ie: turning the wheel.. gas and/or braking more than usual).

you would be okay looking at that pretty girl.. engineers and software designers do it too.

Re:revolution

[Dread_ed]

"I see someone attractive walking on the side of the road and the car turns towards her and runs her over!

Or it turns toward her, and transforms in to Optimus Sexbot the robotic love machine!

Any sex crazed 13 year old geek can tell you what happens next.

How many politicians trains of thought.....

[meridian]

can we fit down a single cable tv feed is what I'm wondering

Re:beyond subliminal , now brain implants coming

[rhennigan]

What the heck are you even talking about?

The slowest network Human Computer

[cacoethes]

And now we have a breakthrough there, I can think and change channels, type letters, play games and ..... who needs voice recognition , the latency is more

I'm thinking this...

[imess]

Re:I'm thinking this...

[mav[LAG]]

I don't get it...

Re:I'm thinking this...

[bcmm]

WTF?
The lameness filter must be able to detect humour and mark the blank post as not lame!

Mind reading!

Re:I'm thinking this...

[roman_mir]

My thought, exactly!

Re:beyond subliminal , now brain implants coming

[bersl2]

I think he ran out of tin foil and is beginning to panic.

Re:beyond subliminal , now brain implants coming

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

A lot of people think subliminals do not work. A lot of people think they do work. I don't think it has been decided either way. Regular ads seem to work well enough - most people believe everything on TV.

Plus the subconscious is literal.

"Bush is God" wouldn't make your subconscious think of George W. Bush, but rather might have you worshipping a shrub in your front yard. Also, "bush" has a naughty (explicit) meaning (in the USA at least) as well, which could have interesting effects on your subconscious. Perhaps a lot of geeks would get out more then...

The REAL question we're all asking...

[Jace of Fuse!]

This is all great, but the REAL question we are all asking: Do Tinfoil Hats block this thing?

Re:The REAL question we're all asking...

[shadowdata]

can't we just read their thoughts ??? :P

1984..

[Anonymous Coward]

.. and thought police is coming to town!

Re:1984..

[Yaa 101]

I agree, that is our largest problem when that is invented.

Actual research paper

[FleaPlus]

Here's a link to the actual research paper (and abstract) describing the work:

Rizzuto, DS, Mamelak, AN, Sutherling, WW, Fineman, I and Andersen, RA (2005) Spatial selectivity in human ventrolateral prefrontal cortex. In press at Nature Neuroscience.

The functional organization of lateral prefrontal cortex is not well understood, and there is debate as to whether the dorsal and ventral aspects mediate distinct spatial and non-spatial functions, respectively. We show for the first time that recordings from human ventrolateral prefrontal cortex show spatial selectivity, supporting the idea that ventrolateral prefrontal cortex is involved in spatial processing. Our results also indicate that prefrontal cortex may be a source of control signals for neuroprosthetic applications.

For an overview of the neural prosthetics work in Richard Andersen's lab at Caltech, this presentation is handy.

Re:beyond subliminal , now brain implants coming

[Guy Harris]

Watch TV, "Obey" in 1/60th of a second flash

This is your God.

Patent?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully they will not patent the file format for my brain.
It'll probably end up that way though and I'll have to keep using Windows so I can log into my Brain. ...In other news M$ patent XML.

"What're you thinking?"

[dannytaggart]

Scientists Discover What You Are Thinking

They have suceeded where my girlfriend failed.

Re:"What're you thinking?"

[Anonymous Coward]

They have suceeded where my girlfriend failed.

Yes, the AI field has alot of catching up to do..

Re:"What're you thinking?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Mothers have been doing it successfuly for years.

Re:"What're you thinking?"

[mr.mighty]

If you're anything like me, it's probably a good thing your girlfriend doesn't know what you're thinking.

Re:"What're you thinking?"

[Anonymous Coward]

They have suceeded where my girlfriend failed.

They found someone good to date?

Re:"What're you thinking?"

[rev_sanchez]

Getting tired of that question yet?
Answer it with 100% honesty. If she doesn't leave you immediately she'll never ask again.

scientists discover nothing

[cwebb1977]

they were just creative enough to mask it as "what I'm thinking"

Re:Glad they didn't test it on me

[Anonymous Coward]

A joke on French people !!!!

How witty and original.... Sure underlines the brilliance of your mind (as opposed to us cheese eaters'). Wait.....

Artificial Intelligence Implications

[Mentifex]

Mind.Forth AI for Robots is a primitive but evolving artificial intelligence which may be able to enter into a direct mind-link -- a kind of "Vulcan Mind-Meld" a la Star Trek -- with human brains implanted with this new technology.

User Manual for Mind.Forth invites high-tech "early adopters" to set aside and dedicate an old MS-DOS machine to exactly this sort of brain communication technology, and to seeing who will hold the bragging rights to the longest-running artificial intelligence for parsecs around.

Re:Artificial Intelligence Implications

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, Mentifex; haven't seen you for a while. Well, I'm glad to see you're still crazy. Keep up the good work.

The brain's adaptive powers...

[zalas]

Since the brain seems to adapt its structure to suit its environment (such as giving someone partial "vision" by stimulating their back with an array of little elements which correspond to the pixels on a camera), won't it mean that different people will have slightly different "wiring" for this to totally work on everyone? On the other hand, since the brain is somewhat adaptive, maybe you can get the brain to adapt or to learn to communicate with the target electrode areas...

Re:The brain's adaptive powers...

[marcuspl]

And if you can't get your brain to adapt, you could ask this guy how to do it.

No more diplomacy

[elgatozorbas]

But I doubt this will happen in my lifetime.

I doubt I would like to see it in my lifetime.

While language can be a barrier between people, it also allows for a suitable wording of your ideas, for diplomacy etc. If everyone could 'read' other's real ideas, people would not necessarily get along better...

Re:No more diplomacy

[autophile]

While language can be a barrier between people, it also allows for a suitable wording of your ideas, for diplomacy etc. If everyone could 'read' other's real ideas, people would not necessarily get along better...

That's what the "politenessizingtude filter" is for.

User thinks, in Elbonian: "Microsoft sucks, man!"

Translator speaks, in English: "It is the opinion of this one that perhaps it is the case that Microsoft exceeds expectations in the domain of suckitude. You are a fine specimen of humanity."

--Rob

Re:No more diplomacy

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, for instance, G. W. Bush would instantly be unlikable to millions of more people, possibly invoking WWIII as soon as he made his next appearance on TV.

When he says things like "Social Security is in trouble", people would know it's in trouble because of him, and his big business partners.

Re:No more diplomacy

[rajinder]

[OT]

Athur Clarke and Stephen Baxter knocked up "The Light of Other Days" that describes quite a society in which everyone really *can* read each others ideas... goes into how such a society would evolve.

Pretty good read.

It's not the brain machine transfer that's

[Anonymous Coward]

kewl so much as the machine > brain transfers

imagine, Dr. Drew will no longer get a laugh out of,
"let me guess, you're a big girl..."
because the orgasmatron (mmmm barbarella who is now the girl next door BTW) will become a realiy.

yes, porn will drive this revolution.

next, 'no child left behind' will become a success and cheap too as silicon logic and reinforcing behavioural feedback will make for millions of happy, intelligent, and compliant workers ready to do the bidding of us leets.

hell, when applied to animals, all those chickens and veals locked away in those dark little pens and force fed recycled animal procesing waste and stale twinkies will be free in their little brains. free roaming in virtual wide oipen spaces, unaware of their true condition. this will put peeta and those other anthropromprphizing lunatics at peace because after all, reality is what s perceived. remaining dissenters will be dealt with by adjusting their reality.

bt best of all, they will even be able to deal with your leg dog! now that's progress.

New form of computer control?

[wvitXpert]

What I think would be cool is if this were used as a new form of computer input. No more typing or navigating using a mouse. Just think what you want to type, what program you want to open. Eventually computers are going to be so powerfull it's going to seem ridiculous to have such a limited input as a 2-dimensional navigation input (mouse) and carpel tunnel inducing keyboards. Direct control from the brain would be an ideal input. Next they need to find a way to beam the computer's output directly to the brain to complete the interface. Lookout Matrix, here we come.

Re:New form of computer control?

[Biomechanical]

Firstly, use this research to remove the keyboard and mouse combo.

Then use the interface that Jerry uses to see and remove the monitor.

Thirdly, redesign the UI so that the computer interface becomes a 3D interactive environment - icons are no longer merely representative of programs and data, they are the programs and data, and able to be themed at the user's whim.

Ever played the RPG Shadowrun? As a decker? Would you like to?

Re:New form of computer control?

[wvitXpert]

Have you ever read any of the Netforce books? In them people connect to their computers and the Internet through a neural interface. Their computing environment is like the real world. Your "desktop" could be a castle on the Irish coast, your icons would be actual objects in the castle. Websites are like different worlds. Seeing the beginnings of the technology that could make this happen is really cool.

great.

[Anonymous Coward]

so now it will be just a little bit harder to tell the paronoid nutcases from the normal nutcases

Question is...

[Skal Tura]

Will this be able to help in other kind of inabilities?

I'm not sure about the english name, but i think it is in english also CP inability.

My friend born so that he is inable to correctly move his legs & arms or anything at all, because his nervous system has sustained damage. I'm not sure about the specifics, because we don't talk about it for obvious reasons.

The thing is, his mind is capable of moving correctly etc. but his nervous system & body isn't.
Badly spasmic etc which makes it even harder.

He needs someone to help him with everything, he can't even goto WC by himself.
He is fortunate enough that his hands etc. work enough to use a computer, eat by himself, even write somehow.

But would this help him to move to more independent life?
Those of which know better, what you think?

Don't know what to say

[PhreakinPenguin]

Rarely do I read about something that makes my jaw drop but this is one of them. All I can say is wow. I can't even imagine the possibilities that this could bring to disabled people. It's things like this that make me believe that anything is possible.

Re:Don't know what to say

[mrsev]

......possibilities that this could bring to disabled people.

Forget the disabled, I want it to improve my ET and Q3 performance. No more long neural transmission down my arm to the mouse.

Re:Don't know what to say

[powerlord]

I agree 100%. Something to keep in mind though, is that while it is being looked at in terms of its effect to help disabled people, one fear that the article mentions is that because the brain can re-organize post trauma, the work done on healthy humans may be ineffective on those who could best bennefit from the technology.

This brings to mind alternative uses though. They seem confident that the work _is_ applicable toward "healthy" humans. It could therefore be the foundation for a man-machine link in most of the rest of society. Driving a vehicle by thought, or perhaps, through a voluntary program within the military, piloting a mech. Certainly a possibility that I could see happening.

Ghost in the Shell

[shaman0]

I wonder if some far day it will end up in some way similar to Ghost in the Shell?

Re:Ghost in the Shell

[bersl2]

It's looking that way. Scratch the AI, and scratch the braincore idea (I would imagine that the data storage would be external initially)... but it's starting to look possible.

Soon!

[Polly_Morf]

Isn't this one step closer to telepathy? If this technology keeps evolving we will soon be able to read otherpeoples' minds. When we do that we can think about what to do next. Then the other people around knows what you will do next, so that they can figure out what to do after that. Soon we will be able to discuss with another human in seconds. We wont have to talk, just look at eachother and let the brainwaves travel. The discussion will become like one long checklist of thoughts before anyone opened their mouths. there are one major drawback: The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy says that the human brain will dry out if our mouths stop moving. Darn...

My Idea...

[polyp2000]

I have had an idea for years, Im not sure if it is possible technically or phsyically because I dont have a fantastic understanding of the human brain. I also have no idea whether anyone has thought of this before but here goes.

One of the nice things about neural networks is that you dont neccesarily have to understand processes that occur during translation. I have often hypothesised that it might be possible to use the traits of a neural network to create an interface with the brain. Suppose there was a patient who had a degenerative eye condition that meant in 10yrs he or she would be completely blind. Forgetting the implications of connecting wetware to hardware for a moment- imagine if we could use a neural network to interface with the visual cortex of a patient , to learn to understand the electrical impulses on the patients visual cortex by way of matching them up with a camera mounted on the side of the head. Might it be possible for the patient to look at a tree using his real eye - the nueral network sees the tree with its camera and this way "Learns" what the patterns in the cortex represent.

Something like this (if it is possible) would have some quite phenomenal implications - especially if it were possible to "playback" the patterns into the cortex from the camera.

Would anyone who knows a bit more about these subjects care to discuss the possibilities of something like this?

Re:My Idea...

[argent]

We already have a neural network that can be used to play back patterns into the visual cortex. It's called the visual cortex. It turns out there's a straightforward mapping from the visual field to parts of the visual cortex, and they've got quite useful results using both directly implanted electrodes and external stimulation. More amazingly, the brain can actually learn to "see" through completely different pathways. One experiment involved an aray of pins on the patient's back!

Not that it's not an interesting idea, but vision is probably too easy a problem to be worthwhile. Hearing may actually be harder.

Re:My Idea...

[marcosdumay]

A paper about that was posted on /. some time ago.

Re:My Idea...

[Ceriel Nosforit]

Hearing may actually be harder.

Not at all: http://www.cochlear.com/
My mother's got one. Speaking with her, you cannot tell.

Re:My Idea...

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you be clearer about what you mean?

Have a look at http://www.dobelle.com/index.html

is this along the lines of what you are saying?

How is it different than recording and replaying the images VCR style into Dr. Dobelle's hookup?

The problem is getting a readout and writing to the live neurons (for example .. since directly measuring it drops the voltage u have to be careful or you may be effecting the actual interactions).

the problem is hooking up to each neuron .. Dr. Dobelle's camera I am sure has adequate resolution .. but the picture sent to the visual cortex must have to be dumbed down because of the problem of connecting up each nerve. Maybe you can hookup to other parts of the brain .. and like, a picture may make sounds, smells or feelings rather than images... maybe people who were blind from birth can "see" via this method?

The brain is good at adapting to new senses and generating the necessary capabilities.

Who knows.

Re:My Idea...

[argent]

How much in the way of undamaged auditory nerves does that need to function? The optical schemes involve direct input to the visual cortex, which is a bit deeper in the brain.

Re:My Idea...

[Anonymous Coward]

It exists - BrainPort. Its proof that the brain is capable of re-routing signals and changing purpose over time. "Brain Plasticity"

http://www.neurodudes.com/archives/000077.html

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000140021333/

In other news...

[sl4shd0rk]

Taking a cue from Caltech scientists this week, Walmart, Best Buy and Compusa have outfitted their RFID tags to read your brain. You will no longer be told how much an item costs, your brain will simply be controlled to move your hand into your pocket and produce a wad of cash whenever you look at an item on the store shelf.

Transpiranto

[Ulric]

I personally prefer Transpiranto, pioneered by the Swedish publication Grönköpings Veckoblad.

Re:Transpiranto

[jacksonj04]

Come on, it's not that difficult to use the letter 'x'

Re:Transpiranto

[ThJ]

Personally, I'm weak for Interlingua.

They all know what you think...

[webgrappa]

...in only 20 questions! :) http://www.20q.net/

Reverend Mother?

[Jormundgard]

One step closer to the Bene Gesserit

There goes my conservative agenda...

[sarbane]

Conservatives could use this technology to thwart a married liberal politician as Clinton from wasting good cuban cigars on trashy interns... better yet, we could try to keep the democrats from slaying their own party (as is happening now) by keeping them safe in their homes before they plan on wasting steps to come out into the REAL WORLD - Yes, this technology definately has potential!

Re:Glad they didn't test it on me

[Anonymous Coward]

Arn't jokes supposed to employ humour? At the very least, a joke should have a punch line. I just see a rambling "Pinky & Brain" thing.

Cool

[oliverthered]

I wish they'd tell me what I'm thinking, because I often don't know myself.

Now all they need to do is link it up-to a recording device and you'd never forget a thing.

Homeland security and terrorism

[Danathar]

I bet the spooks over at homeland security are looking at this as a way to tell when somebody is lying (reliably).

No suprises though

[TractorBarry]

> Scientists discover what you are thinking.

Yup. Titties and beer. Alternatively beer and titties. It all depends on how long it's been since my last beer.

Speaking of which it's fridge time ! No wait my g/f just went past. No she's going out, so it's definitely fridge time.

Steve Austin?

[game kid]

Imagine the Stone Cold Stunners he can do after that surg--[remembers Six Million Dollar Man] Oh, wrong one, nevermind... [grabs gun and goes to WWE headquarters to settle confusion]

Total Annihilation

[Anonymous Coward]

From the intro:

What began as a conflict over the the transmission of flesh to machines escaleted into a war which would decimate a million worlds.

No More Need for Fossil Fuels?

[ty_kramer]

Some may have missed this in the intro:

This work has direct application to the development of a neural prosthesis, a brain-machine interface that will give paralyzed people the ability to move and communicate simply using their thoughts.

This will allow us to end our dependence on fossil fuels -- or any fuels, for that matter. We'll have to port the technology over to non-paralyzed people as well, but that should be doable.

Slashdotters are mind-readers too!

[Silentnite]

I for one welcome our mind reading overl... Ah nevermind.

Ok, well in Russia, minds read... nope.

Um. I did have a joke all lined up, but I forgot it. So would someone mind having a look-see in my head to see if they can find the punchline?

Wait. That opens me up to a vast amount of put-downs. My fault, Flame away.

chmod +w /dev/brain

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was a "little kid" I used to lissen to this thing called Adventures in Odyssey, anyway one of the series had a Evil Empire doing reaserch with something very much like this article. The twist was the corporation used the reaserch for mind control. It was used for elections and all sorts of stuff.

Giant Roboto!

[Anonymous Coward]

All I can say is Gundam, Gasaraki, Macross, Big O, Evangelion, Dual!, Blue Gender, Battle Tech and a whole host of shows I can not remember (or don't want to).

Someone has to say it:

[ogonek]

I for one welcome out new mind-reading overlords.

So...

[yakhan451]

In the human-robot war sure to come any day now, which side will cyborgs be on?

Re:The slowest network Human Computer

[Ohreally_factor]

But think about how MS will be able to improve Clippy!

I see you're thinking about writing a letter.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Time, July 1, 1974

[argent]

This article reminded me of something I stuck in my scrapbook back in high school. Amazingly enough, I was able to dig around and find it...

Mind Reading Computer

The experiment looks like some ingenious test of mental telepathy. Seated inside a small isolation booth with wires trailing from the helmet on her head, teh subject seems deep in concentration. She does not speek or move. Near by, a white-coated scientist intently watches a TV screen. Suddenly, a little white dot hovering in the center of the screen comes to life. It sweeps to te top of the screen, then it reverses itself and comes back down. After a pause, it veers to the right, stops, moves to the left, momentarily speeds up and finally halts - almost as if it were under the control of some external intelligence.

The article goes on to describe the work of S.R.I. researcher Lawrence Pinneo in translating thoughts to action. Googling on his name in interesting.

Did this take 30 years to get from Stanford to Caltech?

Re:Time, July 1, 1974

[HiThere]

http://www.whale.to/b/mindread.html

I checked it because I thought you were quoting from a Heinlein story featuring a Dr. Pinneo. I thought it was in "Green Hills of Earth", but I don't have a copy here right not...so I did the web search and I don't recognize it in the table of contents. I think the name was "Life-Line" (which the web reports as Heinlein's first sale).

There are indications that it was in the first editions(s?) of "The Man who Sold the Moon" (which,again I don't happen to have in front of me)...at least the title is present

Anyway, I suspect this of being a spoof, rather than a fake, but I can't prove either.

Re:Time, July 1, 1974

[argent]

I checked it because I thought you were quoting from a Heinlein story featuring a Dr. Pinneo.

Nope, that's from an article I photocopied from Time Magazine in 1974. Dr Pinneo is real, though if you google for him most of the hits are from fringe activist types waving red flags about the CIA using Dr. Pinneo's technology for negarious ends.

Re:Time, July 1, 1974

[tsobo]

I've heard that traffic in Southern California is bad, but geez!

Pseudo arms/hands

[toybuilder]

This is a great discovery.

I hope they can realize the goal of being able to read (and maybe eventually send feedback signal back to) the brain to give disabled people highly functional prosthetics.

But I also think this discovery has great uses for human augmentation. Just like people with six fingers (hexadactyly) can use all six fingers, I would imagine that with sufficient training (plus tuning of the control system), a person can "grow" extra arms. (Think Dr. Octavius in Spiderman 2...)

But I think the best application for this would be the ability to operate a "keyboard" and "mouse" without actual physical movement. I bet I could think and type about 5 times faster than I do now, if only my fingers had the necessary agility and endurance.

Of course, the first ones to capitalize on this will probably be the military... It puts a new meaning to flying by wire and driving by wire.

This sounds good, but they must proceed cautiously

[Anonymous Coward]

This technology sounds like from what I read something that has great potential, and can be used for good, but when it comes to what we are talking about in this article, in the wrong hands, who knows what can happen. Remember 1984's thoughtrime, and the ability by the party to get people in trouble based on thoughs?

What people should do is lobby for safegaurds against mis-use of this technology in that sense.

Thought Police

[electronerdz]

I can see 1984's Big Brother happening already. Just beam out our thoughts.

No more typing!!! Yay!!

[TrIp0d]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/12 07_041207_brain_interface.html http://www.wireheading.com/misc/implant.html Combine the two interfaces and we don't need keyboards anymore!! That would be something worth researching!

What are you afraid of?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the fact that, soon, it'll be impossible for you to hide your true feelings, intentions, and motivations from the world? Personally, I can't wait till such technology emerges.

Just goes to show

[Hard_Code]

Everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on their real heads.

Voices.

[TapeCutter]

"The problem with that is our words for things may be confusing, but they are far more standardized than our thoughts for things."

You don't need to be insane to hear voices, normal humans have a running commentary in thier head. The commantary is in the thinkers native spoken language. I would go as far as guessing that when we are talking to ourselves in our head we are also planning the muscle movements to speak. I don't see why that could not be tapped into.

"Universal translators will be impossible until we have properly mapped all the different meanings in all the different brains.

I understand words are an abstraction, but we don't know how a brain works yet, so we can't really say they are all different only that they have different thoughts and memories. The computer analogy is a good one but I think it looks complex only when you look at everything that goes on to present a page to the browser. If you dig down to the lowest level all computers have the same simple basic language of AND, OR, NOT. The complexity is generated by the different ways the operators can be combined to create a machine that "thinks" in http. The complexity generated in the brain dwarfs the most powerfull computers, it is analog, highly parrallel, intracitely connected and seems to work by shunting molecules around from one neuron to another. A brain is also pointless and probably would not function without a sensory system and an ability to store experience to give it something to "think" about.

"communication in wildly differing manners"

Because we communicate in wildly different manners does not mean our brains are wildly different, from what we know so far they seem to be very similar to each other. We don't know how we think, perhaps there is a set of very simple rules underlying all thought in all animals. Like the recently discovered formula that describes the gait of any animal as a function of pressure on it's "feet". There could also exist a simple set of rules to generate "a thought" and categorise it into a particular set of symbols (brain browser) based on sensory inputs. This kind of research may lead to a standardised description of how thoughts arise from experience, and then evaluate and categorize themselves into symbols and analogs that generate new thoughts. The question would then be, what would we do with a formula for generating ideas in http, create an internet that talks to us or one that talks at us?

Re:Voices.

[poopdeville]

You don't need to be insane to hear voices, normal humans have a running commentary in thier head. The commantary is in the thinkers native spoken language.

Speak for yourself. And read the Philosophical Investigations by Wittgenstein before you start talking non-sense.

Re:Voices.

[TapeCutter]

Jezz, not that patronising Albert Camus quote again - read "Unweaving the rainbow" by Richard Dawkins for an insight in to why I think that.

"before you start talking non-sense" - try reading the labourious tombe "Godel, Escher, Bach" by D.R.Hofstader for a different philosophy of the mind.

Although philisophical in nature, it would probably be beneath your literary standards to read "I'm not really here" by Tim Allen.

Just as Wittgenstein does not have a monopoly on Philosophy, you don't have a monopoly on reading material.

"Speak for yourself." - "hear voices" => what phyciatrists call an "internal dialog" as opposed to an "auditory hallucination". If you don't have an "internal dialog" then you have a lot in common with a frontal-labotomy victim. If you have "auditory hallucinations" then make sure you take your medication and remeber the pills are not an evil plan by the doctors.

Re:Voices.

[poopdeville]

"Unweaving the rainbow" by Richard Dawkins
Read it. It was crap. In any event, you obviously don't understand the Camus quotation if you think it's condescending. (Hint: He's advocating neither religion nor slavery, just relating his personal experience of living in the absurd)

"I'm not really here" by Tim Allen.
Wouldn't know, as I don't follow up on Tim Allen scholarship. ;-)

"Godel, Escher, Bach" by D.R.Hofstader
Read it. Now that was a steaming pile of shit. You might as well tell me to read Godel or Penrose for their philosophy of mind.

Remember, you are in no position to tell me anything about my mental states. They're mine -- you have no access to them. You are in no position to tell me anything about labotomy[sic] victim's mental states. Or schizophrenics', for that matter. All you call tell me about is your own. So all you can do is tell me about your own, if that.

Re:Voices.

[TapeCutter]

"you are in no position to tell me anything about my mental states" - If I am a "Realist" then you exist and I can judge your mental state from your post, if I'm not a "Realist" then you are a figment of my imagination and your thought are mine.

Maybe if the Camus quote was in context it would read differently. As for Godel & mind, his incompletness theorem is a good place to start on the conjecture that we can never fully understand ourself. I read Penrose - "The Emporers new mind" and found a brilliant mathematitian clutching at philosophical straws.

I read Tim Allen and agree with him that life is a journey not a destination. To find the "answer", accept that there is no answer. I also got a good laugh.

Re:Voices.

[poopdeville]

Likely, I'm one of either a figment of your imagination or a real person independent of your belief in that.

Godel's incompleteness theorem does no work in the philosophy of mind. There are several Godel-skeptical-like arguments in the philosophy of mind and language (Wittgenstein's private language argument, what I was alluding to before, is one of these). But they are not related in content or even structure.

inevitable

[Anonymous Coward]

slightly OT but we are talking about reading data out from the brain - we are not necessarily that far away from a true lie detector. Yes there are some technical issues, but it is a realistic possibility, certainly within our lifetimes. Think about what that means though - the equivalent of 24/7 direct-to-tape surveillance of everything memorable you ever did (because if you can be forced to answer, they can just ask "were you involved in any way with X?"). I can forsee only two long-term outcomes - the people use this tech to control the government, or the government uses it to control the people. If we can force our elected reps to regularly go through a lie-detector-based ethics test, that would be great - the alternative is the most powerful and permanent autocracy the world has ever seen. Think 1984 only more so.

If you don't think it could get that bad - think of this: suddenly torture becomes an effective interrogation technique to force people to answer questions accurately. First on terrorists, then on pedophiles, then murderers, car thieves, software pirates...and eventually all the way down to people who think nasty thoughts about the president. And then again the next day, to see if they still think those nasty thoughts. And again, and again and again, until they develop an abiding Pavlovian love for the great helmsman...

Re:inevitable

[wealthychef]

we are not necessarily that far away from a true lie detector. Yes there are some technical issues, but it is a realistic possibility, certainly within our lifetimes

You are speaking totally out of your ass here, sir. The "technical issues" you are glossing over? Would they include the ability to determine the semantic content of a detectic brain pattern, verify its veracity, and then determine whether any discrepancies might have been willful or not? Just a matter of time for that, eh?

Lie detection machines are purely an artistic endeavor, there is currently no science behind them and I see no reason to think that a machine that uses brainwaves to control movements leads to the invention of a lie detector machine.

Man gets bionic arm

[GomezAdams]

A man gets a bionic arm to replace the one he lost in an accident. He goes home with the instructions that he only has to think a command to the arm and it will perform. Later he has a call to nature. He goes into the bathroom and thinks, 'Arm, unzip my pants' and the arm does it. Then he thinks, 'Arm, take out my penis' and the arm does. Then he thinks, 'Arm, hold my penis while I pee' and the arm does that too. After he finishes he tries an experiment. 'Arm, stroke my penis' and the arm does. His unit swells and he thinks, 'Arm, jerk it off', and it did leaving him with a bloody stump.

Just a matter of time until Amazon.com uses this

[Nova Express]

After all, we know they've already taken the first steps.

"Why the did you send me Greatest Lesbian Porn Volumes 1-69? I didn't fill out an order form for it!"

"Sir, we show that you've signed up for Amazon's 1-Think Shopping(tm), and you clearly wanted to buy it."

Get Back With Feedback

[Doc Ruby]

This new insight will need another breakthru to produce results. Humans work on feedback - fitting the vPF, that prefigures action, as an output requires getting input back into the brain. We'll start with eyes, seeing the mechanical action triggered by the vPF, but that's not closely coupled enough. When we've got inputs on the somatic nerves, like proprioceptors (stretch receivers), getting position signals back into the system, all the local neural nets with motion experience will come into play. Like other implants, the bionics will require very little training before the brain integrates them with the rest of its activity. The feedback lets the brain train itself with every impulse, rapidly gaining skill - typically by reassociating the basal ganglia with the new pathways. Where's my Doc Oc harness?

But...

[jazman_777]

can they help me read my wife's mind?

Hum

[michelcultivo]

I'm thinking on dominate the World!!!

Ob FG

[Omkar]

We can rebuild him. We have the technology.
I don't want to spend a lot of money.

Make a game controller out of it

[Anonymous Coward]

If they make a game controller out of it .. the costs of the research and development can be recovered. And then it will be cheaper for disabled people to utilize this.

Right now produicts for disabled people are expensive because of the lack of mass market.

pre-emptive punishment

[couch_warrior]

WHile this particular development might not be sophisticated enough to read guilt or innocence of a past crime, it might be useful in pre-emptively avoiding destructive behavior.

You could implant a chip that gives electic shocks to , say , a convicted sex offender if they start to get an 3r3ction. Or an alcoholic if they think about drinking alcohol, or a democrat if they think about taxing the rich... uh, hmmmm, OK this *could* get intrusive.

Required

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one welcome our Caltech overlords.

That explains it

[bluGill]

No wonder I can't understand you. Since you think in pathological eccentric rubbish lists nobody can understand you, including yourself.

Personally I think in a C, but I'm not quite good enough to submit my thoughts to the IOCCC - yet. I'm starting to switch to python though. I can understand what I mean, but I'm not sure if I want to... We will see if this holds though, I've only been doing python for a couple weeks.

Thoughts?

[darkpixel2k]

Scientists discover what you are thinking

Oh shit!

The first major step towards...

[Paracelcus]

Full body prosthesis!

I want one just like robocop, change the oil every three thousand miles. Oughta be good for two or three hundred years.

Now I can do 'dance dance revolution'

[PsiPsiStar]

... without leaving my couch! Perfect!

Re:Just a matter of time until Amazon.com uses thi

[ebrandsberg]

Better patent the idea first so they can't do it without licensing it, so you can afford the volumes 1-69 if they do.

Black box for your brain?

[SaDan]

Similar to those in airplanes and cars?

Hrmm... Time to upgrade the ankle bracelets worn by all those folks under house arrest.

Relevant paper, at least for women; Orgasmatron

[FleaPlus]

(I never imagined I'd be posting a scholarly research paper about female masturbation to slashdot...)

Brain (PET) responses to vaginal-cervical self-stimulation in women with complete spinal cord injury: preliminary findings.

Whipple B, Komisaruk BR.

College of Nursing, Department of Psychology, Rutgers, State University of New Jersey, Newark, New Jersey, USA.

Our recent research provides evidence that women with complete spinal cord injury (SCI) at the midthoracic level show perceptual responses to vaginal and/or cervical self-stimulation (for example, pain suppression and sexual response, including orgasm). On the basis of studies in laboratory rats, we hypothesized that the vagus nerves provide a sensory pathway from the vagina, cervix, and uterus directly to the brain in women. To test this hypothesis, we performed a PET-MRI study on two women with complete SCI and 1 woman with no injuries. Whereas control foot stimulation of the women with SCI did not activate the somatosensory thalamus, cervical self-stimulation increased activity in the region of the nucleus of the solitary tract, which is the brainstem nucleus to which the vagus nerves project. These preliminary findings suggest that the vagus nerves can convey genital sensory input directly to the brain in women, completely bypassing SCI at any level.

Last year there was an ABC News article about the "Orgasmatron," where a researcher accidentally discovered that electrode stimulation of the sacral nerve caused women to instantaneously orgasm. From the article:

While Dr. Stuart Meloy was working on a new device to treat chronic pain, he was surprised to discover it could also bring pleasure to his female patients.

While Meloy, an anesthesiologist and pain specialist in Winston-Salem, was putting an electrode into the spine of a female patient with chronic back pain, the woman reported a decrease in her pain and a delightful, but very unexpected, side effect.

"When we turned on the power in this case, she let out a moan and began hyperventilating," Meloy said on ABC News' Good Morning America. "Of course we cut the power and I looked around the drapes and asked her what was going on. Once she caught her breath, she said 'you're gonna have to teach my husband how to do that!' "

This google scholar search turns up a surprising number of results:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?&q=brain+orgasm+ stimulation

What _I_ Need is thought to text!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the chance of getting something like this
hardcoded into silicon?? Totally and completely replace
the keyboard and mouse with tech of this nature.
I'll go out on a limb and predict that it will take
a wee bit of brain training to use effectively...
I for one can't wait to learn to use one.

Good.

[whitehatlurker]

Now they can tell me what it is that I'm thinking. I've been wondering for some time.

Oh.

Never mind.

Don't go too far upstream!

[tgibbs]

One problem with driving a prosthesis from the movement planning stages of the brain is that you might bypass important movement suppression circuits:

"I swear, officer, I never intended to punch that man--the arm did it by itself! I was just thinking that I'd like to punch him, and all of a sudden the arm... See! It just did it again! Sorry about your nose."

Hell yes!

[p0et xtar]

That really would be so interesting to see what people see or think in their heads when listening to music. Memories, ideas, voyages through imagination.

Duh!

[Rick.C]

Scientists Discover What You Are Thinking

Duh!

I, like the rest of the male half of the populace, was thinking "sex".

Now I'm thinking "Duh!", of course, but I was thinking "sex".

Wait! OK, now I'm thinking "sex" again.

Naught Thoughts

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh Oh What if you happen to come across a good looking member of the opposite sex. (wow she sure is hot!...) im pretty sure this robotic arm can't be good in such situations... *Wink wink*...

South Park

[had3l]

We don't pay you to think, Mr. Scientist!

Major Flaw

[ralphclark]

This might be do-able in a technical sense but I doubt whether the obvious application will ever be acceptable in practice.

I'm talking about a scenario where a tetraplegic spinal injury patient has their prefrontal cortex wired up to their muscles (via some silicon version of the cerebellum) in order to free them from their wheelchair.

Unfortunately their physical body is now controlled directly by what you might term the "subconscious". Suppression of inappropriate impulses happens elsewhere and this scheme would bypass that. I certainly wouldn't want to be a scantily-clad woman alone with a man who had received this treatment.

It seems to me that where violent crimes were committed by such patients, it would be difficult to secure a conviction because defence lawyers would argue (I think successfully) that the accused was deprived by the surgery of their ability to limit their own actions to what was socially acceptable. Then the victims would sue the hospital or clinic that provided the treatment.

After a few especially egregious cases I doubt that any doctor would be willing to perform such a procedure.

You Are a Wonderful Person

[ded_guy]

Am I the only one who thinks this headline sounds like it came from The Onion?

Here's the article from Time's online archive...

[argent]

Here's the article from Time's online archive (you need to pay for the full article, but the first paragraph matches).