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Chinese Huawei Takes on U.S. Telecom Market
ChipGuy writes "With funds on loan from the Chinese government, Chinese equipment giant, Huawei is undercutting big rivals like Cisco and Nortel, and is using money to buy its way into the U.S. market. Overseas in Europe and Asia it already has become a major force. There are parallels with auto industry and home appliances. It took a little while before prices became a determining factor and shifted growth away from North American vendors. Telecom will go through the same curve. Huawei is curently selling EVDO phones for about $130 and WCDMA phones about $250 which is about 30% than everyone else on the market. Huawei's agenda is pretty clear - get business and sales at any cost. And that means bad news for already struggling telecom industry."
Higher? Lower? Fucking idiots.
If you find this post offensive, don't read it! THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING! I am what I am because of how apes behave.
30% less?
30% of?
30% more?
30% crappier?
Come on!
--sig fault--
Too bad the US is:
a) violating the WTO rules currently.
b) too addicted to Chinese money to fund Bush's spending splurge/tax cutting spree to really bring any meaningful grievances against China....
Am I the only one who sees how insane Bush's spending policies are? Maybe it's not the wisest idea to become dependant on a country whose primary objective seems to be to destroy us...but then again, this country did elect Bush...twice....
Monstar L
As some have noticed... There was a lack of one word "LOWER" in the post. Here: "Huawei is curently selling EVDO phones for about $130 and WCDMA phones about $250 which is about 30% LOWER than everyone else on the market.
Chinese Hawaii takes on U.S. Telecom Market?
I do not understand this form of economics. Why exactly is the Chinese government allowed to fund this company, is this not unfair to American and other countries corporations? Isn't this violating free-trade with China and Bush and Clinton both advocated?
Damn communists! Undercutting big rivals, using money to buy their way into the U.S. market! Can't trust 'em!
You can't take the sky from me...
I have seen first hand the junk that is Huawei, most of it blatently (and poorly) copied from Ericsson.
At [carrier in S Asia] they failed for 3 weeks in a row to roll out one HLR only to barely succeed with thousands of CSR calls. But since they're cheap, the customer stuck with'm.
Can't wait for the junk to go turtle in the US.
--Good morning fellas; Hand me that thing; Boy, this work's hard; Guys, break's over.
.. when they end up having to deindex the RMB in order to clean up their banking structure..
s ia/03china.html
http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/2263.html
Remember how the last Asian Crisis (tm) came about from lots of nonperforming loans of cheap money for phallic skyscrapers (among other things). Guess where the biggest concrete and steel dicks are these days? Shanghai, Chicom Hong Kong, and the coveted Taiwan ROC... I'm thinking Soros is chomping at the bit for the opportuninty to fuck China _and_ the US over in a spectacular fashion once the dike starts to crack...
Given that and recent reporting of labor shortages in Guangdong..
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/03/international/a
The next few years should be interesting indeed.
At any rate, there's enough dollars in China to support an interesting shopping spree. I'm thinking they'll buy GM after they declare bankrupcy, and use those brands plus Chinese labor (and, hopefully, American labor after the UAW is destroyed by bankrupcy renegotiation) to enter the US auto market.
Take a look at the rapid growth of Koren company Samsung in the global handset market. They came out of nowhere and now are in the top 3 of handset manufacturers along with established giants Nokia and Motorola.
Hyundai is also doing a great job undercutting other auto compaines with surprisingly decent cars at excellent prices. 5 years ago I would never have considered owning a Hyundai, now I think they're just as good or better than some manufacturers.
If you don't think China already has a major stronghold on the US, you haven't been to a Wal-Mart lately. It's a global market, like it or not.
FYI, Nortel, which is mentioned in the summary, is a Canadian company, not a US company. Canada != U.S.
- a competitor challenges them (offering new, better or cheaper services)
- They fail at getting government to subsidize them (they don't always fail though).
- They find that they can't negotiate or buy-off a limited truce with their new competitor.
At this point, if all of these money-backed attempts to ward off competition have failed they usually don't even bother looking internally at their own talent. They'll try buying up a third-party and use them as the signal that they're serious and starting to compete (whether they actually are or not).I'd prefer that my telecom bills weren't funnelling money out of the country to an internationally owned competitor. I'd prefer to support my friends who work as sysadmins of the local Bell's subcontracting agency (since being downsized from Bell employees). But my local Bell doesn't seem to even attempt to innovate unless it has a serious challenger. Despite the coming months of political dogma, I'm glad that a serious challenger is attempting to enter the American market.
Competition is good for consumers, and in the long run it is good for the industry as well. It's only bad news for the entrenched players.
If China wants to tax its citizens so that it can sell me cheap telecoms products, I'm not going to complain.
Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
Great....westerners give communist China financial assistance...then they try to put our companies out of business. What the hell are we doing business with a communist country with such horrendous human rights violations?
China's ok...but Cuba's bad?
I just can not understand why the American government is allowed to fund Boeing, General Dynamics, several oil companies, and Halliburton. Is this not unfair to American and other countries corporations?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
It is irrelevent if you think Bush spends less than would Kerry if Kerry would have a balanced budget.
The current deficits are >5% of GDP. This is insane. Compound that with the fact that no one saves any money in the US and you have a recipie for disaster.
Both Gore & Kerry advocated a "pay as you go" approach. In other words, unless you had money for it, you couldn't not spend money on a program. This may strike you as strange but it's the reason we stopped running deficits and started running surpluses. George Bush has just over seen the largest expansion of Medicare in 35 years. He has never vetoed a single spending bill. Never. The Medicare expansion also forbid Medicare to negotiate a volume discount on drugs. In other words in a total sell out to big pharma, the government will be purchasing billions of dollars worth of drugs AT FULL RETAIL. Simply saying Kerry would have wasted more money simply isn't true, nor does it justify the HUGE expansion of the deficit under George Bush. He may be many things but he is NO small government conservative.
Thalasar
I can understand your frustation, it's not hard. But come on, can you really be mad at the Chinese ("unfair") competition? They're essentially just doing what you taught them to do. Extreme capitalism backfiring?
The best of luck to you, though. I have no wish to see the US come crashing down.
Does anyone remember what happened to the DRAM market tanked after Hynix had been recieving subsidies from the South Korean government? Basically, all major DRAM manufacturers (Samsung, Micron/Crucial, Fujitsu/Seimens, etc) suffered huge losses because of it and took a few years to recover. The point is that China is not the only state guilty of subsidizing a tech company. Hell, how long did the US gov't keep SGI on a respirator?
Of course, being a computer building geek at the time I had a lot of fun shoving enormous amounts of RAM in my system for under a hundred bucks. Maybe this whole Huawei thing will mean I can afford a good cell phone for less than $200 without signing up for some rediculously restrictive service plan.
It's only bad news for the hardware side of telecom. The services side would like nothing better than cheap equipment that boosts adoption and use of telecom. The cheaper the infrastructure, the higher the profits in service and/or the greater the adoption of services if they become less expensive to roll out.
In some ways this becomes a battle between the best interests of the infrastructure makers (a small segment) and the infrastructure users (all the rest of the economy).
The long-term impact is far less clear, however. The effect of cheap Chinese goods will depend on how the U.S. economy uses the less-costly telecom gear. If we only use it to download ring-tones while standing in the unemployment line, then it will be bad. But if businesses find growth-generating new innovations in business processes, services, and products that make use of cheap telecom infrastructure, then it will be a good thing.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Is this the same Huawei that stole Cisco's software and sold it as their own? I guess that's one way to jump start your business.
Kerry's plan also included big tax hikes which would have clobbered the economy and resulted in a reduction of tax revenues. So much for Kerry's balanced budget.
That is quite a bold statement for someone who has probably never studied economics. Did you copy it from somewhere? Possibly campaign liturature? hold on. Did you actually believe Bush? George "We know where the WMDs are" Bush?
Kerry wasn't perfect but believe it or not tax increses are necessary. Even after canceling all of Bush's corporate handouts and cutting education funding and other necessary social programs, we are still spending more than we take in. This can not continue indefinately. If you think raising taxes is hard on the economy, just wait until the US is unable to pay its debt.
I have a plan to balance the budget without increasing taxes (and I want your vote). Drastically reduce in size and scope the Military. Unfortunaly no mainstream candidates seem to be advocating this common sense solution but if something isn't done the military will destroy our beloved nation. Remember, the Soviet Union fell with a bank statement, not a napalm atack.
From the summary: " There are parallels with auto industry and home appliances. It took a little while before prices became a determining factor and shifted growth away from North American vendors."
I thought the problem with American cars in the 70s was quality, not (just) price.
no taxation without representation!
To bad for nortel, that the laid off the workers first... GE currently does the same over here in Germany with people laid off by the suddenly share holder value hungry Siemens. Such things mostly can be blamed to management mistakes, no worker would jump to a weird competitor if the current workplace is ok. But with managements who think that their workers researchers and generally their personal workforce is just replacable for lower cost somewhere else, you dont really can expect that once such an opportunity arises, that people simply will be loyal to the greedy bastards who threw them out for raising the shareholder value in the first place.
The military is only a small percentage of the total federal budget.
Please Consult this pie chart before speaking out of your ass.
I live in Argentina and I work for a major ADSL ISP. We used to have Cisco/Alcatel DSLAMs and DSL Modems but budget cuts made us switch to "Huawei". Huawei DSLAMs are an almost exact copy of Cisco's in terms of performance, but cost like 2 or 3 times less, and you can get a bulk of Huawei USB DSL Modems for a few dollars each (And then give it for free to new users). But, of course, there is no Huawei tech support (unless you can talk chinesse or are willing to wait a week for an automated response), you have to compile your own USB driver for the modem unless you want the internet user mess around with VPI, VCI and DSL encapsulation modes, and while this shouldn't concearn any skilled programmer, the result of compiling your own driver for a cheap modem, using limited testing and questionable source code that NEVER updates only brings problems for the end user (incompatibility with some Windows versions, NO linux or MAC support, etc).
Here are views from different sides:
UAW report, from the left.
This report, from a fringe right-wing guy.
This report, from Jim Hightower, also on the left.
Cache of Bob Johnson campaign site, right-winger. Relevant quote: "in dealing with the slave labor camps in Red China, we have to rmember that about 5% of China is in slave labor camps, amounting to 50 million Chinese working"
Indian NGOs site. See part about Chinese slaves making footballs(soccer balls).
Chinese human rights group site
Another Laogai article
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
The telecom/automotive/airline/etc/etc/etc industries are NOT struggling. last time i checked (about 10 seconds ago) these industries are BOOMING.
look around you. everyone has wheels/multiple cell phones/flies everywhere for the holidays/etc/etc.
the problem is that even though everyone (almost) on this planet esposes global markets and free competition, if -their- company ends up on the short end of the stick (mainly due to the upper management of the worst run of these companies collecting millions in compensation for lackluster performace), they cry to the government for a bailout. fuck that.
half the telecom/auto/airlines NEED TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS, and let the better run companies in these markets take over. simple as that.
Looks like the first large-scale Huawei ADSL deployment will be in Australia:
d =Huawei+snags+Optus+deal/
http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=11321&he
Optus will be deplying ADSL 2+ (24/3.5mbps) in 300 exchanges. Nice to see that the Aussies have granted competitive access to their copper. Too bad the fuckwits in New Zealand can't follow a good example.
China bashing has become a slashdot tradition. Whenever we get a story that centers on this country at this site, regardless of whether that story is about progress (e.g. cracking md5, ip6 networks) or opression (e.g. web censorship,dissident jailing), there is a splash of generously moderated comments whose content is tainted with negative bias.
2 6&cid=12127913
Being appalled at censorship, for example, is a matter I agree with, as I suppose most visitors to this site are.
There are however comments such as these in this very thread
http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1448
"...a country whose primary objective seems to be to destroy us..."
This is the most flagrant example of this bias, but it does not take much browsing at +3 or +4 to find more.
I will not waste my time refuting these silly, uninformed biases and comments. I just want to emphasize their existance for lurkers, whose knowledge may be shaped by such comments, and those who post, whose arrogance is reinforced by them. Arrogance (bias) is the end of wisdom.
Before you post such rubbish, please go read a variety of reliable and credible sources about the country. Then, you will actually be able to state something of substance, a more informed analysis or criticism. For those of you fond of bashing, this habit of having informed opinions will give you more weight to swing with.
-An American who is sometimes ashamed at his fellowes rash conclusions based on insufficient evidence. Ignorant arrogance like this, my friends, is not the way forward.
first i would like to say, many slashdotters must not buy sonet gear. If you did, you would have used luminous, whiterock, lucent, etc...
Hands down, Hauwei put them to shame. a 4U OC48 solution with the ability to take many different cards.
Now some people would say, heck, when you pull out a card, i actually droppped a packet. Well, they all did. Even the good old DDM-2000 OC3 dropped a packet on failover tests when yanking out a card to simulate it dieing.
my point i want to make, is that whiterock and luminous, both American companies offer pathetic products. pathetic, i mean it. Who wants an OC48 that can only have 3 DS3 ports? laugh. software updates that would choke while using the sonet dcc channel.
so before you laugh at Hauwei, best not until you use their gear. Because when your boss visits us down the street, showing off our 20,000 dollar OC48 solution, he will ask why did we pay 100,000 for nortel.
the chinese kid they sent to us was educated, polite, smart, and knowledgable about the gear. he spoke english just fine. Considering my boss is from Turkey, who am I to complain about proper english to him. It is a small world now. I welcome the diversity.
I cannot wait to take shipment of more Hauwei gear, so I can light up the fiber we leased. It will be really sweet when our backbone is up. TDM and ethernet. nice. OC192 upgrade path. nice.
so. any of you people pretending to be a network engineer like me? Life at a CLEC is strange.
You are trying to utilize a security v. disarmament paradigm in a world that needs security right now. Disarmament only works if it is unilateral, and unfortunately we live in a world that has North Korea, Iran and Venezuela as entities willing to pursue their goals outside of the realm of diplomacy and economic leverage.
Okay, I just spent 5 minutes laughin. you can't be serious, can you?
The only country right now I see projecting force outside of it's own borders under strange ideas is actually the US, the sabel ratteling that is done by the other countries is (so far) just that. And heck, if the situation would be reverse, so would be the US.
Welcome to the year 2005! Limited war and police action is the name of the game, and the U.S. military is frequently the only regional security vendor in many world markets.
Welcome to the world since the end of WorldWar II, where all those small little conflicts happened constantly.
And before that we had those little colonial wars et al... Nothing new to see here.
You won't see anything but an increase in military funding in the next 10 years, and that's a good thing. Globalization needs strong security controls and safeguards. The U.S. military through its operating centers around the world provides that. The size, scope and nature of the U.S. military is changing. Because the U.S. needs them, the World needs them, and you need them.
Contrary to popular american believe the rest of the world does not need an ueber Babysitter to take care of their business, actually, the rest of the world can manage just fine on it's own. Thanks for asking though.
If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
When I borrow, then I'm spending someone else's money and my future income. But I can default on that loan!
This is NOT saving money. Savings are when you have a liquid asset like cash, gold, stocks, bonds. Property is not a liquid asset. And loans are liabilities, NOT savings!!
In other coutries, like Japan, people actually save money. It is not uncommon for people to buy a car with cash. Heck, people can buy a house with cash. That is saving money.
When Japan's economy tanked, the situation is not catastophic. All that happens is people can lose money (purchasing power) in the inflation period.
In the US, the opposite is true. People buy everything with loans. What is most dangerous are 90+% financing of homes. If the housing market collapses thanks to high inflation thanks to collapsing US dolar thanks to trade deficit (see how deficits hurt the economy?), the mortages will be worth more than the property!! This can be catasrophic (banks going bankrupt!) which will bring down the economy into a depression much, much worse than in the 1930s (back then people didn't borrow money like they do now so it wasn't that bad :)
If the US doesn't improve its deficit situation (trade and fiscal), this collapse of the US economy can happen sooner rather than later. As soon as banks around the world start dumping US$ in favour of the EUR.
The other function of the armed forces is increasingly to provide training and logistics for native militaries, and to work as a formal security parter (within a coalition) in a given theatre. In this area the US does not have near the capacity that is needed. It needs to easily be doubled or tripled, and since it's a long process to train these type of people it needs to start now.
The US is doing this since it's existance more or less, there are plenty of people who know how to teach. School of the Americas is the most well known of these endavours, and if you look at their graduates, you'll see just how well it is going (yes, I am sarcastic here).
Still even more forces need to be trained for covert missions. For example, when the US recieved reports France that Saddams intelligence units were planning covert ops in the US, they should have done their own covert operation and assasinated Saddam. Instead they asked the UN to help, and when the UN did nothing, they invaded Iraq which led to far too much needless death.
THIS is one of those things we will clash for a very long time. I do not believe that the "preemptive" going to war or killing others is agreeable or just be allowed.
Any nation who acts that way is nothing else but terrorists themselves.
If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.