Slashdot Mirror
Dayton, Ohio: Free City-Wide WiFi
_Bunny writes "The City of Dayton, Ohio announced a plan to make all of downtown a WiFi hotspot - and as of last week, the network is live. This makes Dayton the first Ohio city to offer free WiFi access. Approximately one square mile of downtown is now live, including Fifth Third Field, the Oregon District, Webster Station and RiverScape. The WiFi project is a public/private partnership not funded by taxpayers, and comes at no charge to the end user." (According to the linked story at WHIO-TV, the city is actually paying about $5,000 per year, with advertisers picking up the rest of the tab.)
I don't know what you mean by city-wide, but Dayton is a big place and I doubt "within a 1-mile radius of downtown" really covers it all. Still, this is cool.
This is a BIG event in history. Quite possibly the largest event ever. For the first time in history, there is actually a good reason to live in Ohio!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
...this will become a model for other cities. I know how valuable my WiFi connection on campus and in my neighborhood has become. I would love to be able to sit downtown and know that I have internet access available.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
It's cool that they're doing this, but the problem is, there's not really much reason to go downtown in Dayton. They just built the new ballpark, but other than that, it's really a pretty crappy place.
Lets all do a parking lot lan party!
:D
Pay 4 bucks to park 24 hours, sit in your comfortable car with a laptop, and game it up on a free network... if only wireless didnt completely and totally suck for gaming
How do advertisers push their ads to the WiFi users?
So what happens in any legal suit where there is unmonitored, illegal activity taking place over this network? Is the city liable?
Is the city monitoring the traffic to prevent kids under the age of 18 from viewing illicit material?
Will the RIAA come after them if someone uses this hardware to download illegal songs?
For $5000, it sounds like a real bargain. The question is, how do advertisers make money on this to pick up the rest of the cost? I'll bet its not too long before the advertisers bail, and the city ends up picking up the tab. Any bets?
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
most likely they get to advertise through other means, like stuffing fliers into mailings or hanging their company name on official web pages related to the project. Of course you have lots of little antenna around and the support crews can be branded as well.
Plus being government there are probably some under the table considerations like zoning issues, fees, and similar. Remember a government providing an incentive or discount is not spending any taxpayer money. That is similar to what Washington does by labeling as a program spending cut the simple fact of not increasing the allocation of funds to it.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I don't know if you've ever been to dayton (i went to UD), but I'm not sure I'd use the word "city" to describe it. I went to school there, and if I remember the Oregon district was tough to find because if you blinked at the wrong time you may miss it. Don't get me wrong, this is definately cool, but just keep in mind that Dayton isn't exactly a thriving metropolis.
Top 10 Reasons To Procrastinate
10.
I don't use hotspots, really, but anyone know how the advertising works? Is it like the old free-dialup schemes where you would always have an ad on screen? You would have to install a program to get access. If so, this probably wouldn't be compatible with Mac or Linux?
Can't find this in TFA, all I can get is:
"HarborLink will basically offer some advertising to the end user to offset the cost that would normally have been passed on to the user. This allows the service to be offered at no cost.
_Bunny writes "The City of Dayton, Ohio announced a plan to make all of downtown a WiFi hotspot - and as of last week, the network is live. This makes Dayton the first Ohio city to offer free WiFi access. Approximately one square mile of downtown is now live, including Firth Third Field, the Oregon District, Webster Station and RiverScape. The WiFi project is a public/private partnership not funded by taxpayers, and comes at no charge to the end user." (According to the linked story at WHIO-TV, the city is actually paying about $5,000 per year, with advertisers picking up the rest of the tab.)
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
For the randroids that will start bitching about this new network and how it prevents private companies from creating viable, competing WiFi networks in Dayton.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
I'd think they be all over this like a duck on a Junebug as they in some of the other cities where the municipality tried to provide this service and got stomped all over. Perhaps Dayton is more on the ball and managed to present a fait accompli. Good for them!
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
To get attention. There's no way the broadband industry will permit this. Check the massive campaign they've done (via Republican legislators) in Philadelphia and Houston to prevent municipal WiFi there.
See "a herf="http://www.downtowncorpuschristi.com/wiki/DM D/WiFiCity">here. It's free for now and covers the whole downtown area.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
...letting the government provide your electronic information access is like letting the tax authorities be your bank and accountant. What was that phrase I was looking for..? Oh yes, It's the fox guarding the henhouse.
AFAIC, it's for nothing unless you use secure tunnels and proxies to keep them from snooping on you. No, this isn't tinfoil hate time. This is plain old reality. I love my country, but I fear my government as I should. I can't see the same dingbats who can't get water fountains in the parks fixed within five years as being trustworthy with a cordless phone never mind my Internet access. No thanks.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Yay! Yet another unsecure wifi point to pwn people from... Too bad I dont live in Ohio. Err wtf am I saying?
Anyway. I dont see what the big deal about this is, talk about simple shit to set up. Installed a dlink dwl7200 at a golf course the other day that will reach a lil over 5 football fields long that was only like 820$... Hrm yeah I was right:
802.11a/g (Full Power with 5dBi gain diversity dualband dipole antenna)
Indoors:
98ft (30m) @ 54Mbps
112ft (34m) @ 48Mbps
128ft (39m) @ 36Mbps
154ft (47m) @ 24Mbps
184ft (56m) @ 18Mbps
217ft (66m) @ 12Mbps
259ft (79m) @ 9Mbps
325ft (99m) @ 6Mbps
Outdoors:
367ft (112m) @ 54Mbps
820ft (250m) @ 18Mbps
1640ft (500m) @ 6Mbps
I must say though, this is an awful idea. Wireless internet has to be the best ticket out of jail for criminals since lawyers.
Woot! It's not every day that my hometown is on the front page of Slashdot.
:-p
Although I wish my submission would've been the one that was accepted. Oh well, I can hope for the dupe
~aj~
That's a good question. Answering it should help one or two lawyers put their kids through college.
I'm working with local business in Downtown Parkersburg, WV to do the same thing. However, a few local business are already doing this for-fee. Anyone have any input regarding our stepping on the toes of these companies?
http://www.ezwv.com/
http://www.wirefire.com/
http://www.sequelle.net/
I've never done anything like this so I'm curious if anyone has an opinion what precautions I should take to protect myself. We're trying to roll this out as quickly as possible as a movie begins filming in out humble town this month. We think we'll be able to draw a lot of attention to "ground-zero" for our network which just happens to be our Cultural Arts Center and the location for a film festival going on at the end of the month.
TIA
How many users can a free public WiFi network handle before it's saturated and becomes unusable?
Have you ever been to downtown Dayton? It's not exactly a hot bed of internet users. There's very little residential and most of the businesses are most likely not of the internet-based variety. I think a different city would have benefited more.
Although there *is* Mendelsons. Where old stuff from the Wright Patt air force base goes to die.. a huge warehouse..
"... The WiFi project is a public/private partnership not funded by taxpayers, and comes at no charge to the end user."
How can something be publicly funded without tax payers money? And than the cost of the decision making process of the council, admin, p.r. etc.
"(According to the linked story at WHIO-TV, the city is actually paying about $5,000 per year, with advertisers picking up the rest of the tab.)"
How do advertisers make money? Do users have to accept ads to enjoy a 'free' service? How free is it? Can I use VOIP? Can I do anything I like?
In the statement of the city of Dayton it reads: "We also believe offering this type of exciting, pioneering service will go a long way toward helping Dayton attract that 'creative class' of people who will help fuel our community's future success."
Not sure if WiFi can provide sufficient bandwidth for such ambitions...
-- Neminem laede, immo omnes, quantum potes, iuva.
The telcoms have no problems with WiFi hotspots because the city pays for the connection that is feeding the WAP. As far as they are concerned, the city is just another customer. Where they have a problem is when the city tries to compete with them by providing the broadband connections themselves.
I went to UD (University of Dayton) and now currently work at UDRI. This is cool but as people has mentioned Dayton is not that big of a place but if you go away from the places listed you can hit up Starbucks, Panera and then UD all have wireless access. So a good portion of business area is covered.
Edgar Cayce once said that Dayton, Ohio was the center of the universe. Maybe it was at one time. It was the home of 5 fortune 500 companies, it was the home of the (generally accepted) inventors of the first powered flight machine called the aeroplane. It was important to the computer industry - NCR is still here and U.S. Navy Bombe used in code breaking was built here. But the automobile which was very connected to Dayton Ohio through General Motors and its divisions helped depopulate the city. The surrounding county is doing fairly well however. Montgomery county which contains Dayton, Ohio has a population of 550,000. Dayton, Ohio has a population of 166,000. Dayton proper used to have a population over 200,000.
You haven't been downtown lately it would seem. Afte r the completion of Fifth Third Field,the new Performing Arts Center, and Riverside downtown Dayton has definetly been on an upswing the last couple of years. Back in 1999 when I first started going to school there it was trashy and sketchy, but by the time I graduated it was a pleasure to go down there. It's easy to take a shot at an old midwestern city of industry, but your lack of recent experience and stereotyping is disgusting.
Cincinnati's got Graeter's, which is the best icecream in the world flat out.
Cincinnati's also got a excellent art museum, one of the best zoos in the country, great public libraries, and that wonderful heartwarming Skyline Chili.
Dayton on the other hand . . . hmm.
I'm all for making wi-fi highly and widely available, but what happens when someone comes along and uses this as a way to censor content, or worse, gather private information? What happens when some Free Market Fundamentalist gets elected in Dayton, and hands over the whole shebang, built at public expense, to a private operator?
Build it, sure, but when you add-in controls to prevent these kinds of abuses, it's going to make the whole operation look less efficient (thus validating the claims of the Free Market Fundamentalists).
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
http://www.nmi.uga.edu/mmc/inside.php?s=environmen t&p=3/
-- My dog can beat up your dog.
Downtown Dayton is having a huge problem with crime. In Mid-February, there was a huge (50+ people) fight with people injured and thrown in jail. Right in the center of Downtown is a bus hub, where there is a huge gathering of somewhat questionable folk.. that's how the fight got started. Drug deals go on down there frequently. We're talking a four or five block range... it's not a huge area, yet it's saturated with problems. I don't know about you, but I have no desire to leave my suburbian apartment and take my $2k laptop downtown and run the risk of getting mugged, raped, whatever. I've lived in/around Dayton all my life, and grew up in one of the rougher neighborhoods (Trotwood)... When I say it's bad down there... it's bad.
You are free to disagree with me, of course.
Municipal Wi-Fi is no different (in my mind) than any other municipal service:
Street Lights. ("I never drive on 3rd avenue, why should I have to pay to light it?")
Police and Fire Service ("I've never been mugged, why pay for police?")
"Gov't should stay out of utilities!" Then stop taking showers, flushing your toilet, and take your garbage to the dump in your tiny little hybrid.
Now, some city services are paid for out of general taxe revenue (Police, Fire, Gargbage, in my area). Other services are paid based on usage (Water & Sewer in my area). Either way money goes to the local gov't for the service, and the city or county pays the utility provider.
Municipal Wi-Fi would work no differently. Which payment model it should use is certainly open for debate, but as a concept, why shouldn't my city provide connectivity for the masses?
Security - yeah, there will be problems and challenges. But these can be dealt with. Do you just squat down on any old public toilet in the park without checking the seat first? No different here. Alternatively, I can drink city water out of the tap, with a certain amount of particulate and distate, or I can install a water softener and Brita filter if I want cleaner water than the city provides.
Why, oh why, didn't I take the Blue Pill?
Actually it was not WPAB (which was SAC Command) but the Monsanto Mound works. Of the few companies in the US that made detonators for our nuclear arsenal that was one of them. I can't rembmer the street name but it was near the Fischer body plant & the closed DP&L Hutchinson power station. They had some model airplane parks right across the street that my Dad took me to back in the early 70's.
Wright-Patt's SAC sqaudron (B-52's) was dispersed to Minot AFB and elsewhere well before the Cold War concluded (although doubt that had much of an impact on the Soviet's targetting plans). The SAC squadron was always a relatively small part of the base's function. You could work there for years and the only B-52 you might see would be flying overhead. It was, and is, a large logistics and research management facility. The Materiel (or is Logistics these days?) Command is headquarted there, as well as Systems Command. The front offices of many USAF weapons and research systems are also located there. (I.e., a lot of the stuff that flies at Edwards is managed at WPAFB.)
Monsanto's Mound Lab was located south of Dayton along the Miami River in Miamisburg on Mound Avenue (the "Mound" is an ancient Moundbuilder burial cite). I know the plutonium cells that powered some satellites and space probes were constructed there.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Maybe I will go visit my grandfather in Dayton now...
"One touch of Darwin makes the whole world kin." George Bernard Shaw