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Digital Enhancements or Expensive Distractions?

markmcb writes "Berkeley and USC have teamed up to launch a $3.3 million study over 3 years that hopes to shed some light on how today's kids are interacting with technology and the effects that it is having on education. The study aims to determine if digital devices such as computers and cell phones are shaping the way that teenagers obtain and process information. But given the price tag and the goals of the project, how much can this project actually help education? Has anyone out there in the high school level education field seen digital systems improve the classroom to the point that students actually learn more, or do they just tend to be fascinating distractions that detract from the classroom?"

37 of 211 comments (clear)

  1. More specific by MHobbit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Instead of just seeing how kids interact with technology, why not just study where in the class, or even school, that they use technology, what types of it, and the percentage of students who actually use technology.

    --
    Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Bugs are good for building character in the user.
  2. That is easy, they don't by Mr.+Arbusto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, I'm all about technology (I read slashdot) but most technology in elementary and middle school levels is just all flash and no bang. Sure there are programs that help students (Word, Number Munchers) but having all the technology in the world isn't going to help if reading comprehention and memorized math skills are none.

    1. Re:That is easy, they don't by MHobbit · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Indeed. We don't want n00bs who can't even add 2 and 2 together to be worrying about technology just yet.

      That being said, however, technology can be used to teach students extremely well; especially with interactive lessons.

      Technology in our school isn't all flash and bang. Our school get AutoDesk Inventor, for example, and it's been a big hit, and has helped with a lot of things, including CAD and design process(es).

      --
      Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Bugs are good for building character in the user.
    2. Re:That is easy, they don't by 0x461FAB0BD7D2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Word processors, spreadsheets and presentation-builders do not help high school students.

      As a result of using such tools, the students rely on them so greatly that they become crutches for students. Moreover, they teach students bad habits such as spending time thinking about format rather than content.

      I'm no Luddite, but I believe learning how to do things without computers (even if you are a CS student) helps you to improve your own abilities and lateral thinking. I don't have any statistics to back me up, but ponder this: how many students nowadays can write a paper by hand and proofread it themselves?

    3. Re:That is easy, they don't by DoorFrame · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but having the ability to use computers is a skill that is required for interaction and employment in the modern world. If your family can't afford a computer, and you go through your education without interaction with computers, you're going to be computer illiterate when you graduate. I used to do temp work from time to time to cover my rent and expenses, and it was easy to get work simply because I am very capable with computers. I didn't need to be able to program a word processor from scratch, I just needed to demostrate the ability to use a word processor.

      Give people the access to use computers their entire lives, and computers will be something that are comfortable using for their personal or professional lives. It will make life easier for them, and for everyone who interacts with them. Be able to handle a computer is a basic school that the education system should be teaching, and having computers available, even just to play games on, is an intrigal part of that education.

    4. Re:That is easy, they don't by 0x461FAB0BD7D2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh yes. I agree that people should be trained in using computers. However, stocking schools up with computers only makes it so that these kids use them for anything but training.

      Perhaps juniors and seniors should be trained in using PCs. However, kids younger than that should be trained in working and thinking, in real terms.

      The problem is that using computers to do things restricts you to that particular environment. I know of teachers, who after a few years of using computers, cannot teach without PowerPoint.

      I was blessed, one could say, to have been taught just before computers penetrated schools, where teachers prepared their lessons and you would focus on black-/white-boards and on the teacher, which stimulated attention. Now, students are so focused on Powerpoint slides that the teachers usually have a tough time garnering any attention at all.

    5. Re:That is easy, they don't by kebes · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I see the same thing at the undergraduate level. Technology is obviously helpful: science students can't do their work without computers, word processors, spreadsheet programs, etc. And the internet is an amazing resource for getting extra information, watching lectures online, downloading class notes, etc.

      However, alot of money/effort goes into "multimedia education" and this stuff is mostly useless in its current form, IMHO. There are all sorts of CDs that come with science textbooks, that have interactive demos that supposedly help understanding. However, these demos are "all flash and no bang" as you say. They are not really interactive anyway (the number of options available to the user is very very limited), and the information content is nil compared to a traditional textbook. The impact they have on student understanding is basically zero.

      Technology can help when added to conventional education (showing computer simulations of a concept can help alot!)... however, the vast majority of technology-inspired education-revolutions I've seen implemented at the undergrad level have been pointless.

    6. Re:That is easy, they don't by zippthorne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Students are not focused on powerpoint slides. they are sleeping. you just can't tell because the room is dark for the powerpoint.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  3. Cliff Stoll has something to say about this... by helixcode123 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I happen to be, at this very time, reading High-tech Heretic by Cliff Stoll. Much of the book gives a compelling case as to why computers in the class and libraries are sucking vital time, energy, and financial resources. Recommended reading.

    --

    In a band? Use WheresTheGig for free.

  4. schools? hell no by orufet · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I live in a very well off area in Vancouver, Canada. Technology in my high school is a waste of time. Classes exist so people can learn to use MS Word. We run on Windows 2000. The programming classes learn what a variable is. And the machines available for homework are used mostly for games. All the history/socials/humanities rooms in my high schol have gigantic television screens that are *never* used. And guess what? Somehow, we manage to be short 300 math textbooks because there isn't enough money to buy them. Wow. I'm a geek, but seriously, get the technology OUT of my damn school!

    --
    The Cryptography Forum is new and needs help
    1. Re:schools? hell no by orufet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you buy so many pencils that you can't afford paper, then yes, I say you show throw some of the pencils away.

      --
      The Cryptography Forum is new and needs help
    2. Re:schools? hell no by Moofie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Throwing the pencils away doesn't get you any paper. And we've strained this analogy beyond its limits.

      Yes, over-reliance on computers is a bad thing. Over-reliance on ANYTHING is a bad thing. Getting rid of computers is an equally bad thing.

      Sounds like we need smart, motivated teachers, and aggressive plans to locate and disseminate the best teaching techniques and technologies. How is throwing away computers going to get us closer to that goal?

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    3. Re:schools? hell no by Manchot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Many schools (especially private ones) get money donated to them explicitly earmarked for technology. That is, the donor alumni makes the school sign an agreement stating that the money will be spent on anything else. While this sounds all well and good, some schools end up having more technology money than they know what to do with. So, to an outside observer, it might seem that they are blowing money on frivolous technologies, but in actuality, they can't really spend it on more important things (such as textbooks).

  5. Education by Hrrrg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What we really need is for someone (Bill Gates - you listening?) to set up two identical schools close to one another. Students then get randomized to one school or the other. You could then use this as an experimental system to test which educational programs actually enhance learning. (Note that these are not medical experiments - no need to start getting upset about "experimenting with kids.") I don't think there is any other way we will be able to obtain real data with which improve our education system. If you made sure that these schools had plenty of resources (ie more so than the average surrounding school), then I am sure plenty of parents would agree to allow their kids to participate.

    1. Re:Education by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It wouldn't work.
      The parents of the kids would never willingly allow their kids to be brought up deprived of IT.
      They have been told for years now that IT is the future, and here are you telling them that "as an experiment" we shall see how well your kids do in the absence of IT.

      You are effectively playing games with the childrens' future, and no parent will allow it.

      The parents would prefer to send their kids to the best available school to give them a chance to grow into the best they can become.

      Share the money and stop playing with them.

      On the actual topic, I think there is too much IT for the sake of it, and most subjects could be taught more effectively with a real interactive intelligent tutor rather than some computer screen.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
  6. Computers or Teachers by idiotfromia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Our school district is replacing over 400 computers next school year. This includes several elementary school labs, computers used for a few simple learning games, word processing, and internet browsing.

    Our school board now want to make cuts to the high school music program and eliminate seventh grade athletics. Education priorities need to get into order. We need more teachers over more computers.

    1. Re:Computers or Teachers by mbrother · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Make that quality teachers. A bad teacher can do years of damage.

      --
      Professor of Astronomy, Author of Spider Star & Star Dragon (Tor)
    2. Re:Computers or Teachers by bob_calder · · Score: 2, Informative

      Computers come out of capital improvement funds.
      Better to ask about the ratio of administrators to teachers.

      --
      Any preoccupation with ideas of what is right or wrong in conduct shows an arrested intellectual development. (Wilde)
  7. Computer technology in schools by Don+Philip · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This certainly isn't the first time that computer technology use in schools has been studied, so I'm a bit at a loss to see what the fuss is about. Certainly my research group (see www.ikit.org) has been researching just this for 25 years. In general, there are two types of software for education: computer assisted instruction (CAI) which has been found to not have lived up to the hype (yet); and what Jonassen calls thinking tools, software designed to augment human cognitive abilities. The latter have been working very well in the classroom, and students using such systems have shown good results. However, teachers can't just be thrown the system and told to go to work-they need to be trained as to how to use them, something that school boards have been reluctant to do as it costs money.

    1. Re:Computer technology in schools by Don+Philip · · Score: 2, Informative
      Well, there are a number actually Jonassen (1996) gives the most thorough survey, but, of course, having been written in 1996 means that it is a little out of date. Here's short list:
      • Inspiration (www.inspiration.com): This is a concept mapping tool.
      • LOGO (a programming language for children-http://www.microworlds.com/): This is designed by Seymour Papert Mindstorms) and intended to teach children mathematics and logical processes.
      • Knowledge Forum (www.ikit.org): This is an online learning environment with metacognitive supports to make children realize the thought processes they are using when they learn and build new knowledge> [Disclaimer: I work on this project.]
      • Simulations of various kinds. I have used SimEarth successfully with Gr. 6 classes and senior high school classes to teach ecological principles. There are a number of applications for commercial computer simulations and other commercial programs. See http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/04/15/spark.teach ing/ for a very recent article about using computer games in classrooms.


      References
      Jonassen, D. (1996). Computers in the classroom. Mind tools for critical thinking. New Jersey: Prentice Hall.
  8. Homework by HitByASquirrel · · Score: 2

    I should be doing my homework right now: reading Rabbit Proof Fence.

    Instead, I'm reading Slashdot.

    There you go, no study necessary.

    Now if you excuse me I need to go back to my work.

    1. Re:Homework by HitByASquirrel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But just to clarify, this is absolutely my own damn fault.

      Computer's aren't to blame, it's really just a matter of self-control.

  9. Clifford Stoll by Lord+Byron+II · · Score: 2, Informative

    Clifford Stoll is the Berkeley astrophysicist who caught a German hacker breaking into multiple government computer systems; "The Cuckoo's Egg" is his book detailing the fascinating tale of how he caught the hacker. Despite his knowledge and usage of computers on a daily basis, he is a strong advocate of keeping computers out of the classroom. I recommend "High Tech Heretic: Why Computers Don't Belong in Schools" to anyone; it's a thin book and actually won't take more than a couple of hours to breeze through. But, it will make you think.

  10. c0mpu73rs == 1337 by mboos · · Score: 3, Funny

    d00d, c0mpu73rs t33ch u 411 u n33d 2 kn0w! 411 teh sm4r73s7 h4x0rs use c0mpu73rs!!!!!

    --
    --Mike Boos
  11. All falls back to the teacher by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Insightful
    In the right hands, with the right curriculum, a little extra tech can be great. In the wrong hands, it is worse than useless.

    Sadly, there are too few of those 'right hands'.

  12. It's how they use it by julienroger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How technology affects students has more to do with how they use it, in my opinion anyway. I'm a high schooler with high grades, and I use technology a lot. I also know people who use technology, and have bad grades. The difference seems to be in what they use the technology for. I, for example, like to learn new things, and experiment (I installed Linux, and I'm still learning) while the people with worse grades just seem to use it for socialization. Not that that's a bad thing...

  13. Re:1994 by X1011 · · Score: 4, Funny

    A 10-key calculator? Is it binary, does it read your mind, or does it just not do any operations on the numbers you input?

  14. Real purpose of study by deacon · · Score: 4, Insightful
    To spend 3.3 million.

    Grad students will do all the work. Profs will take all the credit and most of the money.

    The result will be whatever the bias of the profs is. A prof who believes that technology is overused will prove just that. A prof who feels that more tech is good will prove just that.

    If you doubt this, I suggest you get into grad school and work as a research assistant kissing your thesis advisors butt for 2 to 6 years, just so you can get your damn degree and get out.

    Oh, ya, I've been there and done that.

    "Research" Grants are a business and way of life like any other. You survive by getting big grants as often as neccesary, and you provide the answers your sponsers want to hear.

    Walmart is practically Mother Teresa by comparison.

  15. High school and college by lewiz · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm currently in my second year at university in England. Before this I attended senior school and a sixth form college.

    As I was completing my last year at college I saw the introduction of equipment like digital projectors in classrooms, more computers and those crazy digital whiteboards.

    I've never used a digital whiteboard myself but I understand that you can save "lessons" -- this is a truly brilliant feature but I doubt very much that my school/college would make these lessons available online. If this was done I can think of no better revision tool, especially if combined with an audio stream, which is in no way hard to do.

    Digital projectors linked up to computers are also good for demonstrating things in certain types of lessons. ICT (I hate that acronym) seems to be the best application -- explaining things like macros in Word/Excel are best learned through demonstration and practice. However, I seriously have to question just how useful a PC and projector would be in, say, an English or Math class.

    People might argue that some tailored math software is beneficial but I know very well that as a student a projector with some crazy software will be little more than a relaxing break, as opposed to learning the important things.

    My college had a number of computer clusters. One of these was a general-purpose humanities cluster that teachers could book for their lesson. The idea being that they could let the kids search for details specific to their courses or currect projects. In theory this is a good idea but in practice we looked forward to these lessons because it meant we could kick about and do what we might do on the Internet at home (well... some of the things we might do).

    We had another lab in the languages centre that were set up with headsets and microphones. Using these machines students could practice their [language] listening by playing pre-recorded scenes. Previously we had a lab where the teacher sat at the front and repeated certain sections when asked. That's not much good if you're a little slower than everybody else or have a specific problem with a given sentence. Using the lab these problems are overcome.

    I think if I were to give advice to the teachers/those in charge it would be to lock the machines down. As much as I hate to say that I think it really is the only way to get people to work. Sure, trust is a nice thing but when you're dealing with kids between the ages of 12 and 18 it only takes one person to goof around before everybody joins in.

    Well, those are my thoughts. Thinking about the article/question I don't know if it really all that relevant. I've not said yes or no but said yes, in moderation, which I think was fairly obvious from the outset.

  16. Re:Can you imagine.. by teachinggeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    At my school (a school near San Jose, CA) my math department will be trying some of what you mention. We currently are ordering all of our textbooks with PDF versions as well as paper (not every student has a computer, even in Silicon Valley). We also have LCD projectors in most of our classrooms. For the students who have the technology at home, we hope that these devices will make a difference. We also hope that by using the LCD projector we can capture our notes (we use a stylus to write) and distibute them electronically to students. While technology will make some difference, and improve some of the education, it does has to be balanced with a more traditional approach. While it would be nice to teach math from a more analytical/creative point of view, we MUST follow the standards created by the state of California. The tests for these standards are very traditional (solve x^2+2x-1=0, for example) with no calculator allowed. If I fail to teach my students how to solve these BY HAND, I will lose my job, regardless of how well my students may know the more interesting parts to quadratics. Unless the laws are changed (unlikely) the technology is almost useless. The best use of technology has been the graphing calculator in Alebra II and higher courses. Mathematica is nice for Calculus, and SPSS would be wonderful for Statistics, but ultimately our students will be assessed without the technology.

  17. a modest investment by janneH · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The implication that this is a lot of money is just way off base.

    A brief Google search suggests that the US spends on the order of 500 billion dollars per year on education (http://www.oclc.org/membership/escan/economic/edu cationlibraryspending.htm). It would not be unreasonable to spend a percent or two of that amount on research directed at understanding and improving the process - which would mean five to ten thousand projects of this magnitude (the annual cost for this project being about 1 million). The idea being that a one percent investment in research will typically yield more than a 1 percent improvment in the process.

    A 3.3 million dollar project would pay for itself in one year if it improved teaching efficiency by 0.001%.

    Taking that money and using it to support schools directly - say for more teachers - is like saying that we should not do any more biomedical research, but instead use that money to pay for more doctors to deliver health care. You might get an overall improvement in the first year, but in the long run you pay a huge price. There needs to be a balance between short term and long term expenses - giving up the long term view because you have short term problems is - well - a short term view.

    You might argue with the details of the research - and whether the money is well spent in this particular case. But as a general matter it is if anything a modest amount of money.

    1. Re:a modest investment by Westacular · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It seems almost every other poster has completely missed the point of the study. Did anyone read the article? It seems like every other thread is simply full of "we need teachers-not-computers in the classroom" kneejerk reactions, which has nothing to do with what this study is focusing on.

      From the article:
      "Technology is changing all our lives, but it may be revolutionizing the way that young people think, learn and experience education," said Jonathan F. Fanton, president of the MacArthur Foundation. "Common sense suggests that exposure to digital media affects young people in formative ways, reflected in their judgment, their sense of self, how they express their independence and creativity, and in their ability to think systematically. So far, there is little empirical evidence to back this up."
      This study isn't about "technology in the classroom"; it's about finding out if and how the technology that's everywhere is affecting kids and the way they learn, with the ultimate goal of using that knowledge to possibly find more effective ways to teach today's kids -- and that is something that is worth much, much more than $3.3 million. No where does it even imply in the tiniest degree that the results of the study will focus at all on the question of the application of technology in classroom; there are many ways that traditional teaching methods could conceivably be tweaked to be more effective for so-called "digital kids", and this is where the real value of a study like this lies.
  18. The purpose of public education? by mmmuttly · · Score: 2, Funny

    Does it matter? Having done my time, I walked away with the impression that after basic math and reading skills, a public education was largely about indoctrinating the masses to sit quietly in straight rows and do what they are told. All my TPS reports do come with the new cover sheet, but I'm still waiting for a client or boss to ask me about the significance of the Council of Trent.

  19. Re:1994 by EEBaum · · Score: 2, Funny

    Oh, it was indeed worse than that.

    Not until college did I understand the quadratic equation. We were taught it very briefly one day in high school math. After that, the teacher's policy in class was this:

    When you have a quadratic equation to solve, punch it into QuadKill (a calculator program someone had made to solve quadratic equations). Before the test, the teacher would erase all programs off the calcular except for QuadKill, because that was OK to use.

    Granted, I didn't pay the most attention and had probably glossed into a coma the day they explained it, but not until I got into college did I know that an imaginary number was the square root of negative one, rather than "what you get when there's not a real answer for a quadratic formula. Like when quadkill tells you there's an imaginary result."

    Oh, and most of the time my calculator was so full of games that even QuadKill got the boot to make room for Craps (with unrealistic can't-lose odds), Lunar Lander, Tetris, etc.

    --
    -- I prefer the term "karma escort."
  20. Re:Classrooms? by EEBaum · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We should, however, teach them how to Write TFM in a concise, helpful manner. There are a lot of badly-written FMs out there, and after a while it's quite irritating being told to R them. Better yet, they could be taught to design things in such a way that makes TFM less necessary to R.

    --
    -- I prefer the term "karma escort."
  21. Distractions... by schleyfox · · Score: 2, Informative

    I go to a technology magnet high school where we have 1.6 computers to users. Do we ever use them, fuck no thank you kindly. Sure we whip them out when business scouts come around our town, but other than that hardly. When we do use them, we use word and powerpoint, nothing else. Nothing new or inventive is done, you have a spiral notebook emulator and a flashcard like system which 90% of the students horribly abuse (I swear if I have to fucking watch another slideshow with paragraphs of font one shade off from the background where custom animation and sounds tie it all together, soemthign will die). If we are really lucky we will get to use the intarweb, all 2 sites that aren't blocked.
    Technology could be used effectively in schools and learning, but its not. The teachers do not have the training or the inclination. The admins are generally clueless MCSEdroids (not all I know a few very competent admins, but none at my school). We don't even have classes on basic programming. Our servers were going to be switched over to apache, but the admins couldn't figure out how to get it installed (My illiterate friend managed it). There is a longer and better rant at my friends website http://sangxanta.org/archives/2005/02/problems_wit h_m.html
    and the school website (and it was just made to be viewed in alternative browsers by some pissed off students who like firefox, admins couldn't)
    http://web.dps.k12.va.us/galileo/

    1. Re:Distractions... by bob_calder · · Score: 2, Informative

      I teach at in a technology magnet department in a high school in Fort Lauderdale. We have three labs running Win 2k (apps, electronics, robotics), one running Fedora (programming), and three running OSX (apps, graphics, multimedia.) All classrooms using the machines to deliver instruction, complete projects, and run testing. Our school district has outreach to people from industry who want to go into teaching, so they have a huge support system for pedagogy.

      BTW, Firefox is not an alternative browser. It is standards compliant.

      --
      Any preoccupation with ideas of what is right or wrong in conduct shows an arrested intellectual development. (Wilde)