We Love Katamari

We Love Katamari, the sequel to Katamari Damacy, is slated to be released in July of this year (in Japan). The U.S. release of the title is assured, but no specific date has been announced of yet. From the article: "We Love Katamari will have a whole new range of items for players to add to their Katamari, including everything from fish to world landmarks, like the Eiffel Tower. It will also feature a range of new settings both on and off of Earth, including urban, underwater, and mountainous locales." We've previously covered the July release date, but the assured U.S. release and the game's title are new.

Comments

gamecube version?

[joe094287523459087]

anyone have a clue if this or the first title will ever be released on gamecube?

Re:gamecube version?

[Yaotzin]

I wouldn't think Gamecube but possibly Revolution.

Re:gamecube version?

[cgenman]

...and it revealed that, like its forebear, the game would be PlayStation 2-exclusive. - TFA

I'd call that a pretty big clue.

Re:gamecube version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Almost certainly not. The game is heavily based around it's dual-analogue-stick control method. Whatever the other benefits of the Gamecube may be, the crippled right stick on its controller would make it downright unpleasant to play on default hardware.

Of course, that isn't to say that Nintendo wouldn't do their usual trick of putting an over-priced custom controller for use with this one game.

Re:gamecube version?

[chrish]

The original game was one of the reasons why I bought one of the new tiny PS2s to sit alongside my GameCube.

When the PS3 is released, PS2s will probably be given way in cereal boxes, etc. so just bide your time.

Re:gamecube version?

[JimTheta]

The right control stick would work just fine, you idiot. Have you ever even used one?

And what over-priced controller trick are you talking about? Whenever Nintendo has released a specialized controller in the past, the controller+game combo price has not been more than $20 beyond that of a standard high-end game, and I don't think any have even been that much, except maybe the SNES SuperScope.

Re:gamecube version?

[Anonymous Coward]

The right control stick on the Gamecube controller is nasty, malformed and unpleasant to use. I suspect it's the reason why Nintendo wisely decided to opt for the unusual control mechanism in Metroid Prime (although a standard console fps control system on a normal controller would still have been nicer). Without a "head" on the stick, it's difficult to manipulate it comfortably and with precision for significant periods of time. Of course, why they didn't just go for two identical sticks is beyond me.

$20 for a controller that only works with 1 or 2 games is over-priced. 'nuff said,

Re:gamecube version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Although the GameCube has twin analog sticks, Nintendo's mini-DVDs couldn't hold anywhere near the amount of data used in the PS2 release of the first one, so I'd say chances of a port are slim to none.

GameCube mini-DVDs. The cartridges of the 21st century.

Re:gamecube version?

[Bloomy]

But there's still a question whether that exclusivity will turn out the way GTA3, Vice City and San Andreas were exclusive to the PS2 and Viewtiful Joe and Resident Evil 4 were exclusive to the Gamecube.

Re:gamecube version?

[KDR_11k]

I've played Metal Arms just fine on the GC so I don't get your problem with the c-stick. Metroid Primesimply deemphasizes aiming and instead is more focused on evasion. Those fights would be completely impossible with manual aiming.

Re:gamecube version?

[KDR_11k]

Same for me. Should have informed myself better as the game was never released here (nor was the other game I was interested in, Xenosaga).

Re:gamecube version?

[Phudman]

Try playing a first person shooter with the PS2 controller. It'll make the GameCube controller seem like a heaven sent.

Anyways Katamari works well on the PS2 controller because of the symmetric analog sticks. Your thumbs have to move precisely in unison which would be difficult on other controllers.

Re:gamecube version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Resident Evil 4, at least, is still in its GameCube-exclusive phase, and all signs point to the forthcoming (in Japan) PS2 port to be technically very inferior.

Re:gamecube version?

[|/|/|||]

I don't understand in what way the right analog stick is "crippled." Can you explain?

Re:gamecube version?

[Headcase88]

"The game is heavily based around it's dual-analogue-stick control method."

Don't let appearances fool you. Despite the lop-sidedness between the GC's analog and C-sticks, they're actually more comfortable to use than PS2's dual sticks.

"Of course, that isn't to say that Nintendo wouldn't do their usual trick of putting an over-priced custom controller for use with this one game."

???

The last special controllers made by Nintendo that I can think of are the SNES Mouse and the Super Scope, hardly recent enough to qualify the word "usual". Examples, please.

Re:gamecube version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bongos?

Re:gamecube version?

[AltaMannen]

I think the grandparent refers to the fact that the Gamecube analog sticks are not lined up like the PS2 sticks so that might make it harder to play this game on a gamecube controller.

Re:gamecube version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bongos...

And the stupid GBA/GC link cable thing, where you need a separate GBA and cable for each player in multiplayer games. That's the kinda thing that really makes the blood boil... if it had been optional, it would have been cool, as a compulsory feature, it smacks of a rip-off.

Re:gamecube version?

[|/|/|||]

Yeah, I figured it was something that didn't make much sense, but I was giving the benefit of the doubt. Personally, I can't imagine how the position of the stick on the controller would make a difference.

Oh well. I would prefer a GC version but if it only comes out for PS2 I'll still get it.

Re:gamecube version?

[Anonymous Coward]

In video games, most of the memory is taken up with textures--for the levels and for the objects. Katamari Damacy uses little to no texturing (which is how it can get so many objects on the screen at once given the PS2's power and system memory), therefore not really requiring as much memory space as one might think.

And to check the numbers out, Wikipedia claims the GameCube Mini-DVDs can hold about 1.5 GB of data--admittedly less than the 4.7 GB of most PS2 discs. On the other hand, on Isohunt, Katamari Damacy is a 1.13 GB download, leaving around 400 MB of space left free on the disc.

So yes, the GameCube mini-DVDs can hold "anywhere near the amount of data" that Katamari Damacy takes up. Next time, check your numbers first, so you don't look like an ass.

You're right about one thing, though--the GameCube mini-DVDs have loading times much closer to cartridges than the PS2 and Xbox DVDs. Which is, if you look it up, one of the reasons that Nintendo didn't want to switch to CDs in the first place.

Re:gamecube version?

[JimTheta]

I suspect it's the reason why Nintendo wisely decided to opt for the unusual control mechanism in Metroid Prime

I suspect the reason is that Metroid Prime is not that kind of game. It's about exploration and discovery, not about showing off your mad skillz by fragging all the other guys in the frat house.

$20 for a controller that only works with 1 or 2 games is over-priced. 'nuff said,

No, not "'nuff said". You sound like you think you have the definative gamer opinion. Surprise, dude, you don't. Maybe you can't afford them on your allowance, but somebody must be buying them, because they keep making them.

And stop posting as AC.

Re:gamecube version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, the Gamecube's C stick is the video game controller part that most resembles a human nipple. Let's see that on your PS2.

Re:gamecube version?

[Psykechan]

I will never understand why people glom on to a supposed flaw and preach it like gospel.

The 1.5GB mini-DVD that the GC uses would be enough to store Katamari Damacy. I remember people telling me that GTA3 wouldn't fit in 1.5GB and they were partially right; it filled a whole DVD5 on the PS2. I pointed out that with audio compression, you could shrink that greatly and sure enough when the Xbox versions were released, that's exactly what the developers did. Xbox GTA3 clocks in at less than 800MB.

The really weird thing is that the same people who have been spreading mini-DVD FUD have been touting the goodness of Sony's new UMD discs that the PSP uses. They're about the same storage wise as the GC discs. If the PS3 was released using only UMD, all of the fanboys would say it was the Best Thing Evar.

No, Katamari Damacy won't come to the GC. It's not technical at all; there is just really no incentive for Namco to port it. This generation of console war is already over. It's perceived that the PS2 is for the masses, the GC for children, and the Xbox for online. Funny that that is why it won't get an Xbox port either because there is no online component.

Re:But what about us...

[Raumkraut]

Apparently, there will be a European release, too! Woooo!

Re:What is it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't you ever hear of Katamari Damacy? It was a PS2 game released last year at a budget price. It wasn't expected to sell well, but word of mouth spread quickly and the game sold out. We Love Katamari is the sequel.

We Love Katamari

[mshiltonj]

Personally, I prefer escargot.

Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[rAiNsT0rm]

After covering the videogame industry for years, I absolutely love when a truly innovative game comes out with poor to no graphics and takes the world by storm. They affirm that there are still true game designers out there working on doing the one thing so many miss, making a fun game. You would think that would go without saying, but instead it's the exception not the rule. Licensed product that barely passes as a game, endless sequels with one or two added features, and the endless stream of sports titles that generally weaken each year except for the graphics. Games have become so diluted and wading through the hype cane become almost impossible... but then a little known game pops up with a $19.99 price tag that stores wouldn't even accept pre-orders on because "there's no way we'll sell out" and makes a huge impact. Congrats! This is what gaming should be about.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[GTRacer]

Actually, my immediate purchase of the game is all Penny Arcade's fault. I read a few quick reviews to confirm my assumptions and then ran out and got it.

It really is as neat as they say, as long as you're a little open-minded. And the graphics aren't crap. They're simple and stylized, and they break down as the katamari grows, but they do their job well.

Battle mode bit, so any improvement there will be welcome, especially since my kids like to play too.

GTRacer
- B & B missed a golden opportunity to review the sticky balls game

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[Phisbut]

After covering the videogame industry for years, I absolutely love when a truly innovative game comes out with poor to no graphics and takes the world by storm.

I don't want to sound rude or anything, but on several occasions, I have noted that most of the "diluted" games that have cool graphics but no gameplay are usually american games, while those truly innovative games come from Japan. We have reached a point in technology where graphics can't make a game better anymore.

Different culture and different market, but Japan doesn't care about graphics, it just wants to have fun, and that's where innovation comes from. It is really sad that so few japanese games actually make it to America, because they have a way of making games over there that could indeed revolutionize gaming. No wonder Nintendo, which is massively powerful in Japan, wants to revolutionize gaming with consoles that offer less graphics, but more innovations.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[rAiNsT0rm]

I found nothing rude at all in your reply, in fact it mirrors my feelings exactly. Peter Moleneux being my one main exception to the Japan only statement as far as innovation. I personally am amazed at the Japanese and their creativity and for not having any hang-ups about what will "sell." I'm always disappointed when games aren't released in Europe or America because they are too "Japanese," maybe if they were released in smaller runs with lower price tags people would catch on... but in over 15 years no one wants to take a chance, amazing.

I primarily covered Sony in the media and I was bored except for maybe one or two titles a year, I actually gave up covering videogames because it simply was not fun anymore. That's a shame, and why I cling to titles like KD. I wish games come full circle and that the current frenzy on horsepower and graphics peters out, my only hope is in the Nintendo Revolution because it's already clear that the PS3 and XBOX360 are just more of the same.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[snorklewacker]

> I have noted that most of the "diluted" games that have cool graphics but no gameplay are usually american games

Final *cough* Fantasy

Nice movies on that DVD. Wish there was some game there too.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[snorklewacker]

Peter Molyneaux, Will Wright, Warren Specter ... give me a few minutes.

Oh, but we have to love everything Japanese, isn't their culture so superior, everything that comes out of Japan is superior, blah blah blah. Well no, 90% of Japanese games are like "Super Princess Maker 23" that involve seducing cartoon children by clicking through menu dialogs so trite as to make Leisure Suit Larry look like William Shakespeare.

Katamari was a hit because it stood out, and it stood out by actually being fun.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[UWC]

I'll add Tim Schafer and Sid Meyer to that list.

And I'll add Mahjong(sp?) and terrible dating sims to your Japanese game list. I'm not saying that non-Japanese shovelware is all that much better, but the Japanese game industry is not pristine. We get the cream of the crop over here and miss maybe a couple of the good games every year. Also, Katamari Damacy would have failed over here if it was $40 or $50, and its success would likely have been diminished even at $30.

And I love how these game threads devolve into "Where's the innovation?", "Katamari Damacy! I am gaming elite!", and "Japan!11!!"

The best part is that this entire thread is about a Katamari Damacy SEQUEL, and the only new features mentioned are "more items to roll up."

The Western game industry has been behind some nice stuff, too. Everyone talks about how graphics are superfluous. The Splinter Cell games would not be the experience that they are without advanced lighting techniques. And each iteration has been adding genuinely new features and gameplay and actually getting better. Frequency and Amplitude are by Western developers. It's just not as black-and-white (another amazingly unique game, though you mentioned Molyneux already) as the Japanophiles constantly decree. There are conutless studios that routinely turn out great game experiences with unique additions. Grand Theft Auto. Jak & Daxter 1-3. Sly Cooper. These all add something unique and valuable to the gaming landscape and all are, what? Oh, wow! Not Japanese!

Play games that are good. Don't throw blanket statements over large chunks of the world. Deciding that a game that rewards playing for 80 hours to get the Blade of Obsessive Button Mashing or that features a sticky ball against quirky music and art somehow elevates an entire country's work above that of the rest of the world does not make it so. Oh, and saying "Kawaii", "Baka", "Arigato", "Sumimasen", and "Ittadakimasu" at every opportunity does not make you any better than someone else who hasn't seen all the episodes of Jubei-chan the Ninja Girl subtitled three times on fifth-generation bootleg tapes.

Thank you.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[rAiNsT0rm]

While I kinda agree with you you also make my point a bit, when a game such as splinter cell and it's eighth iteration is supposed to be amazing and GTA, Jak, etc... they simply are not. Frequency was cool, granted, but nothing majorly innovative. Quirkyness is huge in Japanese games, Mr. Mosquito, KD, Dog's Life, hell they have an arcade game where you slap a big blue rubber ass. Japan consistantly comes out with unique things, Nintendo innovates, these are facts not blanket statements.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[Reorax]

Shut up, baka. I can be as kawaii as I want.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[Anonymous Coward]

You've obviously never played Final Fantasy.

The movies are horrible.

No, seriously, the plot behind Final Fantasy games is both very formulaic and dull. (Group of teenagers gathers to fight evil group, then discover that an ancient evil is bent on destroying the world and fight against that at some "plot twist" point. FFX ditched the twist.)

The really funny thing is that FFXI, the MMORPG, is exactly the same as the single player games, just with much longer and much more boring gameplay between the movies. (Yes, the MMORPG has movies.)

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[Anonymous Coward]

Thing is, you see all the American crap that gets made. Remember, 90% of everything is crap. You only see the quirky Japanese stuff, because no one bothers translating or talking about crap.

American games are just as innovative. It's just that you see more of the American crap than you do the Japanese crap.

I really wanna make a shirt that says "Japan is not the fucking land of milk and honey" and hand it out to people like you.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[UWC]

Whoa, wait a second, so the secret to a good game is just to be "quirky"? All that gameplay and smooth control and crap are just kludges, and all I really ahve to do is come up with something so far out in left field that no one in their right mind would have imagined it before in video game form? Man, I can't wait to get started on Turd Surfer: Slippy's Adventure through the Water Filtration Plant. Each level ends in you getting past all the sanitation measures. The control scheme has you use only L2, the triangle button, and the right analog stick. The graphics will mostly be neon flashing sprites. Music to be performed by some guy with a gutbucket. It won't sell worth crap, but "true gamers" will latch on to it for years. Heck, I don't even need to do that. If I want to get the Japanophile seal of approval, I just have to mold a pressure sensor in some crazy way. Bug Smasher Pro! Stomp that beetle and see how many points you get! Home version of the controller only $30! Sequels are rhythm-based and set to mindless J-pop.

I did not deny for a second that there are some innovative games from Japan. Nintendo makes great games. I simply stated that there are innovative games that are, apparently through some little-known flaw in the rAiNsTOrm Theory of Gaming Quality, somehow NOT made in Japan. While I know you enjoy your hyperbole, Splinter Cell is only on its third iteration. Each one has added unique new facets that affect the gameplay in positive ways. And out of curiosity, what do you think of the Metroid Prime Gamecube games, developed by Retro Studios, which I assume to be non-Japanese? Wait, hold on, I'll do it for you: "Typically pedestrian hack-job of a beloved and unique franchise. I resolved never to play it when I heard that it's in first-person."

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[Anonymous Coward]

Translation:

Shut up, stupid. I can be a virgin as long as I want.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[rAiNsT0rm]

Wow, you got some anger issues and/or need laid... neither of which are in short supply on /.

I've been gaming since the Atari 2600, and a member of the Sony videogame press for over 8 years, I'm no fanboy nor am I a loyalist to any one platform/country. I also happen to be quite up on all gaming trends not just what you see in gaming mags/sites. I am quite aware of obscure and popular titles in most countries and systems, and I still will say that per year Japan has the most innovative game designers, interface creations, and not all of it is quirky. Japanese games tend to be fun, light-hearted, and unique, and I'll take that over smacking the same hoe in GTA:.

After 22 years of gaming a lot of things get tired, right now Sony and MS are perpetuating this and it isn't getting better anytime soon with the PS3 and Xbox 360, that is my main view and I hold to it.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[snorklewacker]

Well, I was going to mention the retread plots starring the annoying bratty teenagers, but the movies sure are purty, as eye-candy goes. The gameplay is ... well, suffice to say I'm no fan of turn-based combat, no matter how flashy.

I'm told Phantom Brave is a rare exception to the turn-based combat doldrums (though cutesy enough to give you fits), so I might pick that up when I can find a used copy.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[Anonymous Coward]

(kawaii means pathetic, not virgin. Virgin is implied with Slashdot membership anyway)

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[KDR_11k]

Japanese storytelling is very clicheed in general. There's a list of jRPG clichees, once you know them you can predict every plot twist that's even faintly alluded to two hours ahead. Some general rules are:

The evil guy always has long (usually blonde) hair, if there's another villain expect him to die and reveal the true villain somehwere throughout the game.
Any government, church or anything else hat isn't a group of rebels is evil and only helps you in order to make you fulfil their plans. Rebels are always good.
If there's a mention of N objects somewhere you can be sure one part of your mission involves acquiring or destroying those N objects.
No matter what the time period of the game, the male lead will always use a sword. And get the girl, if she makes it through the game alive.
Enemies that die falling off a cliff are never dead, they will always return at full health and usually a bit stronger than before.
The evil guy will always complete his plan for the destruction of the world 99%, the player killing him will make the world barely survive and all the problems disappear.
The final shape of the final boss always resembles an angel.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[Anonymous Coward]

Phantom Brave is a Turn Based Strategy game with some RPGish elements tossed in. It's not really comparable to Final Fantasy games (except FFT which was also Turn Based Strategy).

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[MilenCent]

Whoa, wait a second, so the secret to a good game is just to be "quirky"?

It really helps. Atari Games created the game industry, and survived for an amazingly long time, by doing just that.

All that gameplay and smooth control and crap are just kludges, and all I really ahve to do is come up with something so far out in left field that no one in their right mind would have imagined it before in video game form?

I would love to play such a game. Unfortunately, your description doesn't fit the bill -- it actually sounds like someone tried too hard, in a Boogerman kind of way.

Of course there's more to it than just being quirky, but I'd rather have quirky than Yet Another FPS, or Final Fantasy wannabe.

Bug Smasher Pro! Stomp that beetle and see how many points you get!

Do you realize you just described part of Super Mario Bros?

Let me paraphrase Roger Ebert, who originally spoke of movies: "It's not what the game is about, it's how it's about it." Katamari Damacy would have tanked if it weren't for the implementation, and there's a lot to the game, technically speaking. It's got a good physics simulation for the ball, it has a graphics engine that can seemlessly scale from 5cm to 800m, and the tank-like maneuvering system simultaneously provide a fine degree of control for the ball while also providing camera controls.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[Minna Kirai]

"Placescape Torment", a USA RPG regarded as highly creative, fulfills 4 out of those 7. Knights of the Old Republic hits a lot too.

Any government, church or anything else hat isn't a group of rebels is evil and only helps you in order to make you fulfil their plans. Rebels are always good.

The USA thinks rebels are always good, too. They were founded by rebels... Star Wars, anyone? And, rebels are by definition underdogs. Either rebels = good and badguy = strong, or badguy = weak and game = boring.

If there's a mention of N objects somewhere you can be sure one part of your mission involves acquiring or destroying those N objects.

A feature also common to Hollywood screenwriting an American game design. It's economy of description: why mention something if you aren't going to show it later?

The evil guy will always complete his plan for the destruction of the world 99%, the player killing him will make the world barely survive and all the problems disappear.

Something that's happened to James Bond only 24 times.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[UWC]

Bug Smasher Pro's quirkiness is that the interface is a single pressure sensitive rubber beetle. The instructions recommend that you use socks or bare feet, but the arcade versions are tougher and designed for use with shoes. So yeah, that one was a response to the "arcade game where you slap a big blue rubber ass" that rAiNsT0rm posited as a fine example of Japanese innovation.

As for Slippy's grand adventure, I'm at least proud to say I didn't have to try very hard to come up with it; I just wasn't able at the time to come up with some wondrous, charming, and heretofore unimagined play mechanic. Point was, though, that not all "quirky" games are inspired bouts of creative genius coupled with expert game design. A good art director can quirk up the blandest of games.

And man, there was this amazingly quirky game. You traveled around a near featureless landscape until you ended up in pits with a flower. You then had to encourage the flower to grow, and escape the pits. I think it was called "E.T." or something.

Also, I do like Katamari Damacy. It actually is an example of a unique overall design backed up by solid gameplay and technical accomplishment, graphically and otherwise. I read Game Developer's postmortem on it and was impressed at what went into it and what eventually came of the efforts.

I also agree with Ebert's line, which he himself often breaks out in his own defense to explain his ratings.

Summary time: I like Katamari Damacy. It's a good game because of a combination of inspired design and excellent implementation. I get tired of hearing it trotted out everytime someone bemoans the lack of innovation, especially in reference to one geographical region's apparent superiority over another. Every part of the game industry is capable of producing uninspired products and regularly does so. Your line about "Yet Another FPS or Final Fantasy wannabe" fits that well. Every part of the game industry is also capable of producing unique and endearing gameplay and worlds, and reasonably frequently does so. I think that's it. I think the rest was sarcasm attempting to address those points.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[JonBob]

You're thinking of The Grand List Of Console Role Playing Game Clichés. Some highlights: "No! My beloved peasant village!" The hero's home town, city, slum, or planet will usually be annihilated in a spectacular fashion before the end of the game, and often before the end of the opening scene. "Silly Squall, bringing a sword to a gunfight..." No matter what timeframe the game is set in -- past, present, or future -- the main hero and his antagonist will both use a sword for a weapon. (Therefore, you can identify your antagonist pretty easily right from the start of the game just by looking for the other guy who uses a sword.) These swords will be far more powerful than any gun and often capable of distance attacks. Bed Bed Bed A good night's sleep will cure all wounds, diseases, and disabilities, up to and including death in battle. Short Attention Span Principle All bookshelves contain exactly one book, which only has enough text on it to fill up half a page. Golden Chocobo Principle There will be at least one supremely ultimate improvement for your weapon or some way to make your trusted steed capable of going anywhere and doing anything, requiring hours and hours of hard work to acquire. Once you do achieve this, you will use it once, and it will be completely useless for the rest of the game.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[The-Bus]

Perhaps on consoles. But look at puzzle games online and you will see a whole lot of them are extremely innovative, and a lot of them are American. I think there's more of a focus on big huge new games from American companies, who perhaps don't focus on innovative gameplay as much as they could.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[MilenCent]

Play games that are good. Don't throw blanket statements over large chunks of the world. Deciding that a game that rewards playing for 80 hours to get the Blade of Obsessive Button Mashing or that features a sticky ball against quirky music and art somehow elevates an entire country's work above that of the rest of the world does not make it so.

Hey now, Katamari Damacy is genius. It would be so if it were made in Rhodesia.

Japan *does* tend to have a greater degree of originality in their games than in the western world, but this is not because of some innate advantage held by the Japanese. Their game industry just evolved along somewhat different lines than the U.S. one, and it just sort of happened. There certainly *are* bad, me-too games in Japan, and lots of them, but overall things are slightly better there: in the U.S., for a big game studio to allow you to make an interesting, never-done-before design, you have to either be a big name first (and even then expect problems -- Will Wright had a lot of trouble getting The Sims made, focus groups hated it) or go the independent route. In Japan, at least, there's a little more leeway -- even if it is just a little.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[UWC]

All of those are still funded by the latest Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, or Gran Turismo game. And Katamari Damacy was lucky. It was apparently the result of Namco lending a game designer to a group of students, and lo and behold they came up with a marketable and very good game design.

And as I replied to you earlier, I do like Katamari Damacy. You just can't hold it up and expect it to be proof that Japan has a creative edge over the rest of the world's game developers as so many here seem all to eager to do.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[MilenCent]

And as I replied to you earlier, I do like Katamari Damacy. You just can't hold it up and expect it to be proof that Japan has a creative edge over the rest of the world's game developers as so many here seem all to eager to do.

And as I said, the Japanese are not more original than Americans (in fact my money's on *less* because of their cooperative culture), but because of the various ways their game industry evolved separately from ours they have a better chance, for example, of a quirky game like Katamari Damacy being released by Namco, a giant publisher. U.S. game designers are perfectly capable of making such games, but good luck getting them made unless you're already a big name.

And good luck becoming a big name, these days, unless you've proven you haven't got a creative bone in your body.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[king-manic]

I'll have you know KOTOR is not a "made in the USA" product. It's canadian. I have a friend who works there, we drink real beer and watch the girls flash every friday. As for innovation, I'm sure every innovative game fromt he US has a canadian working on it :)

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[king-manic]

Nit Pick: Splinter cell is canadian/french. And thus not US made, also the french influence makes it completely evil.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[UWC]

Canadian/French, thus not Japanese. I used the terms "non-Japanese" and "Western" specifically to allow for various Ubisoft things and I assume others not based in the US.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[Qzukk]

The same company (Nippon Ichi Software) and artist (Takehito Harada) behind Phantom Brave also produced Disgaea (in fact, the main characters make a cameo in a bonus area after the end of Phantom Brave)

Disgaea's battle system is more reminiscent of Final Fantasy Tactics: grid layout, limited movement, jumping capability. Phantom Brave discards the square grid for a circular radius-based system. PB also has more strategic elements beyond just levelling up to Lv12,000... confinement limits: pull everyone out on the first turn, and your army might literally evaporate before the battle is over. Or, the choice between sending your people into battle unarmed (allows for summoning more people) and hoping to find a weapon laying around, or sending them into battle with a weapon, which could possibly save you should the map be low on items to confine. People you don't take into battle could be home making money and mana for you. Or just laying around in the sun all day.

Story wise, Disgaea is hilarious. Damn hilarious. If you don't like your battles to be centered around pure fluff like tracking down the evil demon who stole your picnic basket, don't look here. With multiple endings (even for dying on the first boss!) there is plenty of opportunity for replay. Parody extends all the way down to the core of the game. If you aren't level 5000 by the end of the game, you're doing something wrong, or you're not at one of the cooler game endings. Damage numbers pop up with "K" on the end when you pass 99999 (nothing quite as satisfying like finding a level 1 monster and doing 1000K damage to it). New powers and maps are unlocked by vote at the "assembly of darkness". Don't like the way they vote? Bribe 'em. Or just kill them all.

Meanwhile, Phantom Brave does what few games (or movies) have ever made me do... feel for the characters in the game. And these feelings are not always happy fuzzy feelings. People in the game are assholes. Shit happens. In the end theres a more or less happy ending, but I'd have preferred to have had the chance to rip a few characters' heads off along the way.

If you're a hardcore "tactical" RPG fan, you can play La Pucelle, which predated Disgaea technologically (and has character cameos in Disgaea. To understand all of Disgaea's cameos, go back to the ultra-cute musical (no, seriously: Cast breaking out into song and dance) Rhapsody on the PS1). I suggest playing La Pucelle before Disgaea (they were released in reverse order in the US), otherwise you will spend a lot of the game thinking about how much better the newer battle system was.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[Anonymous Coward]

Your hatred of Japanese fanboys has made you even more obnoxious and annoying than they are.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[qurk]

While they were at times a little melodramatic, the first 6 Final Fantasies really don't qualify as "Movies" :) Besides, even in the later games, they seem more to me to be a godsend to neurotic compulsive people, who want to spend 200 hours getting EVERY little item, EVERY little spell, EVERY summon. To claim that there is no game...well I would assert that maybe it isn't YOUR type of game, but it is for some people, for sure. Personally I love the early final fantasies, and even the newer ones I can spend a week playing, before I have to recheck my priorities and ask myself, "Do I really need to kill this monster 1000 times or play 500 card games for this one component of this one special item which I'll probably never use because it's so unique.....I'll come back in a few months when I'm in the mood again :)"

I have to admit the name is pretty laughable now that they have a sequel to 10 "FF X-2" and are working on sequels to 7. But hey, theres a time and a place for everything :) For me, the music alone in most of the Final Fantasies made them worth picking up.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[qurk]

New items to roll up, more environments, more stuff for the Prince to wear. The first game is so awesome, and was only $20... and isn't that the price they are shooting for the sequel as well? Why complain about something as beautiful as this? :) The soundtrack of the first game alone was worth $20!

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[Anonymous Coward]

The USA thinks rebels are always good, too.

Except when they're insurgents... um, terrorists... oh, whatever, just shoot them anyway.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[qurk]

I'm trying to think of Japanese RPG's to refute you, but so far I can only really name one, so you must be on to something. World Court Tennis for Turbographix is perhaps something of an exeption. For the most part it is just a generic early 90's Japanese RPG, except for the fact that in random battles you go to a tennis match (and it is actually a pretty good tennis game) and battle it out to win the match of tennis! You buy better rackets and stuff instead of better weapons and armor...and ultimitely you are trying to defeat the evil tennis king! :) A SERIOUSLY solid video game.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[snorklewacker]

"Planescape Torment", a USA RPG regarded as highly creative, fulfills 4 out of those 7.

Which ones? There's of course "key item" quests, though not quite the same as collecting all Nine Curios Of Godlike Power or Five Trinkets Of Doom. The Transcendant One's form is pretty malevolent, I wouldn't call it angelic. The game is full of organizations, but none of them have big agendas, such let alone rebel against the "government" (the Lady of Pain).

It's economy of description: why mention something if you aren't going to show it later?

In theater jargon, it's called "Chekov's Law": If there is a gun on the wall in Act 1, it will be fired by Act 3.

Anyway, all drama follows certain forms. There's several books (you'd think we'd only need one) that attempt to enumerate them, and they tend to boil down to about a dozen or so, with variations bringing the total up to about 30-40. And yes, "defeating an evil plot at the brink of its successful outcome" is probably one of those devices. But categorization is a function of our classification ability, which lets us fit specific things into archetypical forms. The conversion is always lossy, sometimes terribly so.

JRPG's tend to follow form about as much as most RPG's (Torment was fairly different -- my first time through, I ended up talking TTO to death with no combat), and while there are exceptions in JRPG-land, they're harder to find because they are buried under mounds of mass-produced entertainment ground out like so many cheap sausages. It's just a bigger market there.

One could bemoan that there's nothing new under the sun, but Ecclesiastes already said it, so why bother?

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[dmauro]

When will people stop saying that Katamari Damacy has bad graphics?! They're great! Not the most technologically advanced, but great nontheless.

Re:Such Innovation In a Time of Little

[KDR_11k]

The problem is jRPGs are more clicheed than your average Hollywood action flick. The parties are almost identical (always the somewhat reluctant hero and the cute, shy girl who must save the world, plus three or four other clicheed roles), it's VERY rare that you see a game not using that standard party. A common plot device is much more obvious when 95% of all stories use it.

Go through the list of clichees a few posts down, any jRPG will fulfill more than half, maybe three fourths of it.

What about us?

[Bobsledboy]

And yet, its looking like the original will never come out in Australia. le sigh

Co-op mode

[JonBob]

The article mentions a cooperative mode in this iteration, with two players working in sync to move a single katamari. I think this is the most exciting part of the announcement; we could guess most of the rest, really. This is a great reason to buy the new edition. Personally, I didn't enjoy the battle mode in the first volume (which the article says will be improved as well), but co-op sounds like a blast.

Re:Co-op mode

[Strider_Hiryu]

I wonder if you can roll your partner into your mass.

Re:Co-op mode

[JonBob]

I'd be surprised if you can. While this is possible in battle mode, the description of co-op seems to indicate two princes and a single katamari, with each player controlling one of the two sides of the ball (a single analog stick each) rather than one player controlling both.

Re:Co-op mode

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, if you look carefully at some of the pictures (here, for example) it seems both players use both of their analog sticks.

Same-o sequel?

[7grain]

"... a whole new range of items for players to add to their Katamari, including everything from fish to world landmarks, like the Eiffel Tower."

Hmm. I vaguely recall picking up lots of fish in the first one, and something that looked a lot like the Eiffel Tower at the end of the 'World' level.

No matter. A few new maps would be enough to make me happy! Hopefully they'll keep the "punks" on motorcycles that say "bim-bim-bim-bimbimBIMBIM-bim!"

Re:Same-o sequel?

[wedgewu]

I think it was the Tokyo Tower that you picked up in the first game. :) And there was an entire level where you had to just pick up fish - the Pices level.

Re:Same-o sequel?

[7grain]

Forgive my western-centric view. I stand corrected! Cheers.

Re:Same-o sequel?

[qurk]

Hehe.. this is one of the funnest things for me, the things people scream and shout out while you are rolling them up. "NOOOO...WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?" :) "ARRRRRRGH" Or when you pick up the barber shop and everyone in there is yelling at you :)

Re:But what about us...

[Anonymous Coward]

stfu.. idiots is a better term..

Re:But what about us...

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps if you stop calling us "USA'ians," we'll be nice enough to let you play our games.

"We"? The Katamari games are made by Namco, a Japanese company. Also, when people say "USA'ians", it's meant as what's known as a "joke". Reference dictionary.com if you're unfamiliar with the concept.

Re:But what about us...

[KDR_11k]

So you wouldn't accept the term "U.S. Americans"?

Re:But what about us...

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. The whole "US'ian" thing pisses me off, as people only say it to be contrary. How would you Brits like it if we started calling you "UK'ians"? It's stupid okay, so stop doing it.

Re:But what about us...

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a real name for your nation then.

Hoping for better multiplayer

[wynterwynd]

The only weak point I could find in the original Damacy was the multiplayer. The arena was aggrivatingly small and once someone got ahead it was too easy to stay there. I think a vs mode that abolished the picking up of the other player's Katamari would've been better (it's way too easy to win that way), just determine the winner based on size alone. The 2 player mode announced in the article where both control the katamari sounds like it would be aggrivating. I'd be much happier with a race to the biggest; mebbe even include special items that would leave behind a trap item when rolled over with effects like exploding items off the katamari, reversing the player's controls, or similar MarioKart-esque mayhem.

Re:But what about us...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't give me that "Brazilians and Nicaraguans and Canadians are Americans too" crap. I've never met a Canadian who would call himself an "American."

They'd be too ashamed of comparing theirselves to you :]

Catch that screenshot?

[jesdynf]

There's a /brand name/ on a tennis ball.

If those guys took bribes for product placement, they could make a mint without ever selling a game.

(Imagine players struggling to find those last -- goodness. Anything. Or borrow a page straight from PA's playbook, and play a level while keeping your Thirst Bar full with refreshing Sprite bottles.)

The bonus level where you pick up alcoholic beverages with a katamari and have the Lord of All Cosmos mix you a drink would be silly, I suppose.

Re:Catch that screenshot?

[Anonymous Coward]

But is it a real brand name or just a fictional one? The original KD, in the house, had a system that looked like a cross between an NES and a Famicom, and was just called "Video Game".

Re:katamaridamacy2.com

[Anonymous Coward]

Since the game isn't called "Katamari Damacy 2", noone cares.

Now if you owned welovekatamari.com, then it'd be different (and while I don't agree with the laws, you'd probably be considered a 'cybersquatter').