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3D Projection Rumoured to be The Revolution

Posted by Zonk on from the computer,-lights-up dept.

mars soup eel writes "Cube.IGN is reporting that Brooke Burgess (of Broken Saints) has let the proverbial cat out of the bag concerning Nintendo's new Revolution console. The big secret (assuming the rumors are true)? 3D projection." From the article: "At the core of the theory sits how Revolution will display games: through a form of real-time 3D projection. That's right folks, along the lines of a classic 50s monster movie. Nintendo itself has stated that what it plans to use on Revolution isn't all that unique, only that it has never been applied to videogames. Taking that into account, plus recent patents filed by Nintendo, and it doesn't sound all that far fetched, argues Burgess." As always, take this with a grain of salt.

120 comments

  1. Not a bad idea... by black+mariah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If they can implement this and do it RIGHT then I'll be impressed. While this smacks of Virtual Boy 2, I'd really like to see something like this made to work right.

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    1. Re:Not a bad idea... by IorDMUX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Virtual Boy failed because it was too large to be a handheld yet not "console" enough to take it's place with the television.

      The problem with trying to express 3-D with video games is that the utterly ubiqtuous display device of choice is quite 2-D.

      It seems their options are:
      * 3-D glasses (not necessarily the red-blue type, there are many options nowadays; but would gamers really want to wear them?)
      * Head mounted displays (Virtual Boy again?)
      * Filter array displays (Average cost upwards of $1000)

      So what'll it be, Nintendo?

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    2. Re:Not a bad idea... by MBCook · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I loved the Virtual Boy, but my worry is the glasses. My guess is wireless LCD shutter based glasses if all this is true. The problem is I wear glasses (basically blind w/o 'em). I have never seen any kind of 3D glasses system that works well for people like me. This would be the biggest problem to solve.

      As for gyroscopic controllers, I'm not sure how well that would work, but if anyone can do it, Nintendo can. The touchscreen controller idea sounds good, but reminds me a bit of the Jaguar's 12 button section on the controller you put button guides around. But the touch screen opens up MUCH more possibilities.

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    3. Re:Not a bad idea... by PhoenixOne · · Score: 1
      >The problem is I wear glasses (basically blind w/o 'em). I have never seen any kind of 3D glasses system that works well for people like me

      I wear glasses too, but I've had no problems with the 3D glasses you get for IMax3D shows.

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    4. Re:Not a bad idea... by MBCook · · Score: 1

      I havne't been to an IMAX theater. If there is a solution, good. There is a question of cost on those though. I don't know how expensive they are. So many of these things that must be done near the commodity level are just terrible if you wear glasses.

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    5. Re:Not a bad idea... by Longstaff · · Score: 1

      Did you ever use the old Sega Master System? The LCD shutter glasses were fairly large, IIRC. Dunno if they would fit over eyeglasses or not...

    6. Re:Not a bad idea... by PhosterPharms · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, see, I can't stand the IMax3D glasses. I have horrible vision in one eye and fairly good vision in the other, so the whole thing is just a bad experience. Couple that with the fact that I can almost see the shutters blinking (it's enough to distract me, and give me a headache, even though it's fast enough to not actually see) and the whole experience is underwhelming. I hope Nintendo is planning a different sort of Revolution.

    7. Re:Not a bad idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The problem is I wear glasses (basically blind w/o 'em). I have never seen any kind of 3D glasses system that works well for people like me.

      Have you considered contacts? I'm not trying to say I understand your condition, but I'm nearly blind without correction and get 20/15 with my contacts (-6.00). I also get no distortion. They are easier to keep clean than glasses and until recently they stayed in place better (small titanium hingeless glasses kick ass). The only downside is that I no longer can do a spectral analysis out the corner of my glasses.

      I admit, I always thought contacts were for the vane. I'll also admit I got them for vanity reasons. For someone like me, very very near sighted and almost no astigmatism, contacts give me far better vision than glasses ever can.

      I'd get laser correction, except then I'd be more than likely forced to wear glasses (thinner, but still glasses).

    8. Re:Not a bad idea... by Nathonix · · Score: 1

      Not only have i seen them, i own them. but i cant get them working anymore. they might just fit over some slimmer glasses, but leave the cokebottles at home.

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    9. Re:Not a bad idea... by Malor · · Score: 4, Informative

      IMAX glasses don't have shutters and don't blink. There is no blinking in IMAX at all. The IMAX system uses polarized light; one eye is polarized vertically and one is polarized horizontally. The light projected on the screen comes from two separate projectors and is also polarized. The glasses reject the 'wrong' light for each eye and allow only the 'right' light through. (If you take the glasses off, you will see two images projected on the screen.)

      That's the reason you can't quite see the flicker. It's imaginary.

    10. Re:Not a bad idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I really don't mind my glasses. They don't bug me at all. Now I have an astygmatism (probably spelled wrong) along with nearsightedness, so I'm not sure if I could even get contacts. It comes from having two parents in trifocals :).

      I really don't care about wearing glasses, and the idea of contacts doesn't seem that vane to me (I can see good reasons). But a big part is the "stick someone on and take off my eyeballs 2 times a day" part.

      But then again I'm relativly sure I couldn't get them due to where my vision is. And I don't want surgery (maybe in 5+ years or so).

    11. Re:Not a bad idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a developer really wanted to do this they should be able to on any console with a 3D API. All it would be is projecting two seperate images slightly apart and with colored overlays. It would be like split screen play, but with both images taking up the whole screen (and tinted blue/red).

      I hope, for Nintendo's sake, that they don't go this route. This has gimmick and zero third party support written all over it.

      Even if the end product was a revolution - I just don't think Nintendo has the clout in making hardware after their last two outings. The battle is really just between Sony and Microsoft at this point.

      Personally, I put more stock in the rumor that Nintendo will be making games for the next XBOX. If they bet the bank on 3D gaming, they could easily be dividing assets in no time.

    12. Re:Not a bad idea... by squant0 · · Score: 1

      Neat way to do it, I've never been to an IMAX 3d show. Too bad we can't make TV's have polarized pictures. . . wasted all that great engineering on HDTV ;)

    13. Re:Not a bad idea... by Nalgas+D.+Lemur · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even though this rumor is probably not true, I worry about this same thing with anything that does end up using 3D glasses. Not only do I wear glasses, but I have weird corneas, and almost no type of 3D display works properly for me at all.

      I could tolerate the Virtual Boy, but I haven't used it in a few years, and my vision has gotten a little worse since then. The last time I was in an IMAX theater, I completely couldn't make sense of the 3D previews while wearing the glasses. Not only did it not look 3D, it was very hard to even figure out what was going on. Luckily, the movie I was there to see wasn't 3D, so I was able to watch that fine.

      I'm a bit worried about where 3D displays will head in the future, because they could end up leaving out part of their audience if people with vision problems can't see them properly. I realize there's not really much to be done about making music listenable for deaf people or videos seeable for blind people (at least until those problems can be physically corrected in some way with implants or something), but there are probably plenty more people (compared to the number of completely blind and/or dead people) who can see and hear well enough to use the current output devices just fine but for whom some of the fancy new ideas won't work. Hopefully we won't all get left out in the future.

    14. Re:Not a bad idea... by CanadianBoy · · Score: 2, Funny

      What was wrong with the red and blue cardboard glasses?

    15. Re:Not a bad idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've used stereoscopic 3d with my glasses, you just need the 3d glasses to be rather large (and duct taped to your head, if necessary to keep them on).

    16. Re:Not a bad idea... by PhosterPharms · · Score: 5, Informative

      I was about to call shenanagans on this one until I found out that there are two systems for IMAX3D. The system you are talking about sounds like the one used at Disneyland with the pink glasses on rides like Captain EO, or the Muppets one or the Honey I Shrunk the Kids one, which I have absolutely no problem viewing and find very entertaining and convincing. They used to have an informative video before Captain EO that explained how they polarized the light and whatnot.

      The only IMAX3D movie I saw was at the Luxor in Vegas, and I had to wear these big, bulky grey shutterglasses. You had to push a button at the beginning of the movie to calibrate them if I recall correctly. I know the difference between shutterglasses and the polarized glasses from Disney. Just to reiterate, this shutterglass movie was horrible and I would never see any IMAX3D movie again for fear that it uses the shutterglasses. For linkage verifying that there are two types of IMAX3D, check out this page at IMAX.

    17. Re:Not a bad idea... by Elranzer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have a feeling if Nintendo ever does go 3rd-party (and I do hope to a just and loving God that they don't), they'd more likely either be exclusive to Sony or equally develop for both. But I highly doubt they'd be exclusive to Microsoft.

      While it would seem to make sense since both Nintendo (of America) and Microsoft are next-door neighbors in Redmond, remember that Nintendo is primarily a Japanese company and more likely to side with the Japanese competitor (Sony) should this happen.

    18. Re:Not a bad idea... by Reignking · · Score: 1

      No kidding. This is fascinating to me -- this would be a drastic leap forward. If this is true, I really hope that they can get it right.

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    19. Re:Not a bad idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Contacts aren't as hard as you think (soft lenses). Sure the first month really sucks, but after a few years it's far easier than combing your hair or brushing your teeth. I think it is easier than cleaning my glasses, but I'm very picky about having clean glasses.

      Mutlifocal lenses are usually the result of hardening of the lens in your eye (presbyopia). I'm headed into that, I only have a few more years of full range focusing.

      Soft lenses that correct astigmatism are weighted and much more expensive. I'm almost entirely nearsighted and only have a .5 astigmatism in one eye. I feel lucky, it isn't hard to order -6 lenses, even if no one stocks that strong a lens.

      Anyway, I have a close friend who is -8 hearsighted and wears both contacts and glasses, but prefers glasses. He also solders without his glasses holding the iron tip less than 1/2 inch from his cornia. I kid you not. He even admits to getting hot solder in his eye once or twice.

      He's been called Mr. Microscope Eyes.

    20. Re:Not a bad idea... by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      " My guess is wireless LCD shutter based glasses if all this is true."

      That doesn't fall into the category of "Never been done by a home console before," though. It's been done by Sega on the old Sega Master System.

    21. Re:Not a bad idea... by rev0102 · · Score: 1

      In a black and white game? Nothing :)

    22. Re:Not a bad idea... by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      If your astigmatism(sp?) is sufficiently bad your choices in contacts reduce and price goes up rapidly.
      Last time I looked into it conatacts would have cost me over $150 per eye.
      For those who don't know what it is, astigmatism is when the eye is off-round such that a perfect circle when seen uncorrected apears as an elipse.
      The problem this causes is that if a corrective lense is not aligned properly it can exagerate or complicate the distortion rather than correct it. Now for glasses this correction is easy to align as everything involved is relatively fixed. Contacts however just sit in the fluid covering the eye, so steps have to be taken to keep them oriented properly on the eye for astigmatics.
      So if your astigmatism is as bad as mine you have to pay through the nose for contacts.

      Mycroft

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    23. Re:Not a bad idea... by gtkuhn · · Score: 1

      Remember that old Sega holographic game "Time Traveller"? I wonder if Nintendo will use something similar. http://www.hortonaviation.com/timetrav/ttpics.html It needed no glasses, but only played the scenes on the laserdisc. I bet such data could be generated on-the-fly today.

    24. Re:Not a bad idea... by jhdevos · · Score: 1
      My guess is wireless LCD shutter based glasses if all this is true.
      Whould shutter glasses even be possible with the low refresh rates on a tv? Each eye would only see half the frequency of the television's, which is not so good to begin with.

      Jan

    25. Re:Not a bad idea... by Malor · · Score: 1

      My apologies if there are more than one kind. I've been to at least a couple of IMAX 3D movies in different theaters, including Polar Express, locally, just a few months ago. Both of the systems I've seen used the polarized light method.

      Shutter glasses are indeed horrible, and if there really are theaters that use that tech, no WONDER you don't like it.

      The polarized 3D, however, is really quite nice. Check it out sometime.

    26. Re:Not a bad idea... by mwvdlee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Since a 3D-glasses rendering would basically be two independant 3D renderings, mixed in a post-processing phase, I'd image the console having a switch which would allow a plain 3D rendering like we have nowadays.
      Not just for people with disabilities like yours but also for party games when there's just not enough glasses for everyone to watch the fun.
      Since party games are a Nintendo-owned niche, they'd be stupid not to include the option.

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    27. Re:Not a bad idea... by Nalgas+D.+Lemur · · Score: 1

      This is true. I feel like I'd miss out if one of the next big things at some point is 3D displays, though, like how the move from 2D to 3D happened a few years ago. I kind of doubt it'll be any time soon (not in the upcoming generation, and not necessarily in the one after either), and I don't think they'll do anything like exclude people who the displays don't work for. I'm not worried about that, but it would be a shame to not be able to be a part of an advance like that. I'll live. As long as stuff is still fun to play in the future, I'll get over it.

    28. Re:Not a bad idea... by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 1

      There was also Holoseum, a 2D fighter where the sprits stood upright on the stage.

      Sure it could be done today on-the-fly, you'd just need a large parabolic mirror to focus the TV screen, and a dark stage to keep the picture from being washed out.

      There is a reason the cabinet for those two games was shaped as it was, function over form.

    29. Re:Not a bad idea... by Leibherk · · Score: 1

      But if the glasses came with(or were attached to) the controler, then more than likely there would be enough glasses for everyone... unless the game is made to be played by more people than you have controlers. Disabling the 3d glasses should still be an option.

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    30. Re:Not a bad idea... by harrkev · · Score: 1

      Well, for LCD panels, making them 3D is almost trivial. Of course, instead of using a single sheet of polarizing material, you would have to have a checkerboard sheet of polarizing material, where the "red" squares would have one polarization, and the "black" ones the other.

      Conceptually, this is easy. Making the proper polarizing material and aligning it would be a manufacturing challenge, but the theory is so obvious, I do not think that anybody could even file a patent.

      The only down sides is that the manufacturing cost would increase, and the effective resolution (and brightness) would decrease by 1/2. And, of course, you would need to wear polarizing glasses.

      Why hasn't this been done before?

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    31. Re:Not a bad idea... by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Then how about the people there not actually playing but just watching? How about a 2-player fighting game where a bunch of friends take turns? How about party games which are commonly enjoyed by larger groups of friends?

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    32. Re:Not a bad idea... by Reignking · · Score: 1

      Just a warning, though, for those in that situation. My girlfriend has an astigmatism that is so bad that contacts simply won't work. For the first time in umpteen eye exams, the most recent doctor actually said that -- the other ones before him kept trying to sell her expensive lenses that "might" work.

      Just a friendly warning that if you have an astigmatism, you might want to be 100% positive that contacts will work for you before you buy them.

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    33. Re:Not a bad idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's three obvious reasons why any personal 3D will be head-mounted LCDs:

      1. Games using shutterglasses/polarised lenses aren't viewable to people without headsets. The TV would need to be used for spectators or people without headsets.

      2. Shutterglasses require you to sit quite close and it never stops looking like you're checking out a diorama. Plus they require at least 120hz (60hz per eye) and I don't believe most TVs have a hope of achieving this.

      3. TVs cannot select polarisation, so someone elses mentioning of IMAX-style 3d is way off the mark.

      All that said shutterglasses are by far the cheapest solution, so maybe it's an HDTV thing.

      Finally, I think for basic reasons such as RSI there won't be any sort of control linked to the head. You think carpal tunnel is bad? Wait till you get it in your fucking neck.

    34. Re:Not a bad idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, the shutter method can be quite unpleasant. Rather than using two projectors you end up with just the one. You want a film rate of the equivalent of 240hz before shutters become acceptable.

      Polarisation is just /so/ much easier, although this requires a special screen as well I think and not just a pair of sunglasses over the front of a couple of projectors.

      Who knows, maybe Nintendo are selling a budget projector/screen package? With recent developments in ambient-light-absorbing projector screens and LED projectors it's not unreasonable. Actually I kinda hope this is what it turns out to be.

    35. Re:Not a bad idea... by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      Another possible solution is to compromise, put what you can in the contacts and the rest in regular glasses.
      This may seem silly as it defeats the 'no glasses' principle of contacts. But the correction done by glasses takes place farther away from the eyes and has side effects that reduce vision acuity in ways contacts don't and the combo seriously mitigates these effects. Also it's likely that the glasses would not be needed most of the time and would be much thinner when needed wich is a plus.

      Mycroft

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    36. Re:Not a bad idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try contact lenses... Duh.

    37. Re:Not a bad idea... by MasamuneXGP · · Score: 1

      You might want to look into contacts again. I wear contacts and I got a year's supply of soft lens for both eyes for under $100.

    38. Re:Not a bad idea... by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      The you don't have bad astigmatism.
      THAT is why I said they would cost me over 150 an eye.
      When your astimatism is bad enough soft contacts cease to be an option. All your left with is expensive torric(sp?) lenses that cost a LOT.

      Mycroft

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  2. Hm by FLAGGR · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How would culling work? Does it like project a 3D scene out into your room, if so then it would have to be a pretty powerful machine, since you couldn't cull none visible polygons. What would the viewing distance on something like this be? Hmm I'm having a hard time imagining but major props to the big N if they pull it off.

    1. Re:Hm by DreadPiratePizz · · Score: 1

      Based on the article, it would seem that it woud use the same 3D technology Lucas plans to use to show Star Wars in 3D.

    2. Re:Hm by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. This is not a hologram-like technology. Look instead for either 3-D glasses, or some other (more sophisticated, less red-and-blue) optical tricks.

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    3. Re:Hm by LordStraun · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sadly, I doubt the next N console is gonna have holo-deck type processing power.
      Most likely it'll be some sort of LCD-shutter glasses technology, as already used in '3D' movies.

      I find the claim "only that it has never been applied to videogames" somewhat misleading, as this technology has been available for PC games for many years (http://www.xforce3d.com/) It will, however, be the first time such technology has been natively supported by a game platform.

      As for culling, the use of this pseudo-3D technology isn't going to change a thing.. your POV will remain the same, just the illusion of depth will be enhanced. Also, consider that if the hardware is powerful enough, some forms of culling (such as back-face) are unnecessary. Take for example the PS2 with it's 2.56Kb graphics pipeline.. I've heard developers rarely need to do backface culling with it.

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    4. Re:Hm by jangobongo · · Score: 1

      Could it be something like this Virtual FX 2D to 3D Converter ? This system uses wireless 3D glasses.

      This would be cool if there were some way to connect your VCR and DVD to watch movies, etc., like that system does. I wonder just how popular this would really be in Nintendo's Revolution, though. I think the novelty factor could wear off quickly. 3D movies have never really taken off in the past, partially because of the necessity of wearing the glasses.

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    5. Re:Hm by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 1

      These things are generally like normal 3d graphics as any old console or computer would display, but with two "cameras" ingame at once instead of one. Each camera is slightly offset left/right from one another. In this way, you get one image for each eye, and the illusion works best when looking straight on.

      This is how the nVidia drivers and most any other stereo 3d drivers do it, so I assume that if the rumour holds then Nintendo will follow the pattern. Actually doing multiple angles or whole 3d environments and objects is probably pretty resource intensive.

  3. Re:I have no idea what this means by black+mariah · · Score: 2, Interesting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscopy

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  4. That's right by briancnorton · · Score: 5, Funny

    The revolution will not be televised!
    Well, at least not like normal.

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  5. Bogus Speculation by iridium_ionizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Nintendo itself has stated that what it plans to use on Revolution isn't all that unique, only that it has never been applied to videogames. Taking that into account, plus recent patents filed by Nintendo, and it doesn't sound all that far fetched, argues Burgess.

    The "argues" implies speculation. Furthermore, I say it is bogus because even if Nintendo doesn't want to remember Virtual Boy, certainly they remember 3-D World Runner for the NES.
    http://www.gamespot.com/nes/action/3dbattlesofworl drunnerthe/index.html?q=runner

    I think it came with glasses. And although the 3-D mode wasn't top notch, it was 3-D. You could also turn the 3-D mode off. Have fun by running around a planet in four directions (NSEW) fighting impressive sprite dragons (although they didn't look like real dragons they did look quasi 3D).

    1. Re:Bogus Speculation by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      The closest thing that came to real 3D was the 3D-glasses on the Sega master system. Nintendo tried to follow with the blue-red-10cent-paper glasses later, but that was a joke.

    2. Re:Bogus Speculation by fbjon · · Score: 1

      I remember Magic Carpet having different 3D modes...

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    3. Re:Bogus Speculation by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, my Vectrex, which is still in the basement, had great 3-d done with goggles with a spinning color disc in them.

      I have yet to see this 3-d gaming system, circa 1982, topped.

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    4. Re:Bogus Speculation by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Better example: Rad Racer, which was produced by Square but published by Nintendo themselves in the U.S., and used the same red-blue 3D, if not the same engine as Worldrunner.

  6. Behind and ahead of their time. by Fiz+Ocelot · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Burgess references several inside "sources" who claim they know Revolution controllers will support positional shifts as experienced in Kirby's Tilt 'n' Tumble.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one who would jerk the controller all over the place when playing Super Mario Bros. on the NES right?... Every time I jumped I'd lift the controller up, finally they're catching on.

    As to the stereoscopic idea, I think doing it before theatres may hurt them, being slightly ahead of their time. If people get hooked on it by big budget summer blockbusters that's great for them.

    1. Re:Behind and ahead of their time. by Mahou · · Score: 1

      jerking around the controller is what gets people laughed at, so um.. ha ha. it's hard for me to imagine why people would do it anyway

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    2. Re:Behind and ahead of their time. by TopShelf · · Score: 1

      Do we really need to see phrases like "jerk the controller" in a story about 3D video projection? I don't think so...

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    3. Re:Behind and ahead of their time. by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1
      Almost every player gets physical when they get immersed in a game. I know I do.

      If it delivers six degrees of freedom, and accuracy (which I think it will), it could have a huge impact on gaming. Thinking about how the controller will work makes a 3D projections system seem more likely, also.

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  7. I just hope... by kryogen1x · · Score: 2, Informative
    ...if this technology is actually implemented into the revolution, then it won't cost an astronomical amount of money. I believe low cost was one of the selling points for the Gamecube, and it would be wise for Nintendo to keep the costs down.

    From TFA:

    If that's not enough, he goes on. During the ShoWest film conference, a panel featuring George Lucus, Robert Zemekis, James Cameron, Robert Rodriguez...

    At least it's not George Mucus.

  8. Is it anything like this? by incom · · Score: 1

    http://futurelab.aec.at/vrizer/
    I don't quite get what the article is describing, but it sounds similar to the vrizer project.

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  9. Already proven false by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Burgess's article has since been debunked. The patent he bases his speculation on is for an in-game camera system. There is absolutely no mention of 3D projection technology.

    The other support for his speculation was that Nintendo demo'd a new peripheral for the Gamecube behind closed doors at E3 2004, but this ended up being the microphone that shipped with Mario Party 6.

    This is the most halfassed "next generation console" rumor ever perpetrated. Burgess was too lazy to do thirty seconds worth of reading and now he's being rewarded with lots of hits from curious fanboys.

    *sigh*

  10. Fruit flies like a banana by cliffiecee · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's right folks, along the lines of a classic 50s monster movie.

    You mean, the games will be created in Japan and feature people in rubber monster suits?

    Wow...

    1. Re:Fruit flies like a banana by Bongo+Bill · · Score: 1

      Isn't that already how they're made, though?

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  11. Not likely by PhoenixOne · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Unless I'm missing something, I'm thinking this isn't real or it will be the last console Nintendo ever makes.

    If the 1990's VR craze has taught us anything, it is that most people do not like wearing things on their head and I doubt they have come up with a way to "beam" these images into thin air.

    More power to them if they want to innovate new gaming technology but this is so out of left field that I doubt any developer outside of Nintendo would try to do anything with it.

    --
    Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
    1. Re:Not likely by SetupWeasel · · Score: 1

      I see 3D as limited by hardware, not software. For a 3D game you would simply have to render two differrent camera angles in unison. The challenge (as I see it) is having to processing power to render it all and display it. I don't see a whole heck of a lot of trouble on the software side, because you could do it with a simple tweak of the code you use now depending on how it is implemented. Heck the console might just assume a certain camera convention, and do it itself with no modification of the code.

      I might be wrong. This is just how I see it.

      I personally think the rumor is bunk, but at least this isn't as negative as a lot of the rumors. It would be really cool, but I don't think it would happen.

    2. Re:Not likely by simcop2387 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's actually an OGL wrapper that does exactly this, i've played with it a bit but i didn't have even any red-blue glasses with me so it was kinda moot, its got linux support also. worth checking out

      its called VRiser
      http://futurelab.aec.at/vrizer/

    3. Re:Not likely by PhoenixOne · · Score: 1
      I see it limited by design.

      Hardware is so powerful now that it wouldn't be much of an issue to render all the pixels in even an HDTV twice over at 60fps. Adding stereo view to any 3D engine software I've used takes about an hour.

      The technical issues are minor. Designing a game that is fun to play in "true 3D" however is not. Something that is exciting in "flat 3D" would probably make most people physically sick in "true 3D." The reverse is also true, a game that is fun in true 3D would most likely feel tame on flat 3D. The result is that most developers will make games that run on the PC, PS3, and XBox360 (since all three of them will do roughly the same thing) and ignore the Nintendo console.

      A "True 3D" Nintendo would have some kick-ass games developed in-house, a few good ones by 3rd party developers, and not much more. Now that I think about it, it sounds a lot like the N64. The N64 was one of the first, affordable systems to run 3D games as we know them today. Maybe I should change my original post from "not likely" to "unlikely?" ;)

      --
      Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
  12. Didn't they try this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Gpod help me if I could only find the links but...

    I think around E3 2000, or 2002, or somewhere in between then and now (vague enough for you? sorry), Nintendo had a large snow-globe-looking 3D projection system they were going to unveil at E3 that year. It was an add-on for the N64 if I recall correction, and I remember seeing pictures of it (probably mock ups?), but when E3 finally came around the device was a no-show.

    It sounds like this is just a repitition of where they were headed then, but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned it yet. It honestly looked like a flop to me, but was so "out-there" that I thought it would get more attention or at least be remembered with this latest post.

    1. Re:Didn't they try this before? by Mahou · · Score: 1

      Gpod
      ok this mac fanboism and ipod worship is getting outta hand when you start getting freudian slips like this

      --
      if i'm not immortal, what's the point of living?
      ...te?
    2. Re:Didn't they try this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha. It's like the hipper, downtown version of the iPod. Or something.

    3. Re:Didn't they try this before? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Well, it does give "Deus Ex Machina" a wholly new meaning...

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  13. Let's think about this practically by briancnorton · · Score: 2, Insightful
    There are many ways to greate 3D images. I think it's a safe assumption that you won't have to buy a new TV to participate in the revolution, so there are limited options as to how this can work.

    One way is to interlace offset frames and wear shutter glasses. You lose part of your horizontal FOV and they give people headaches, and is only really practical on CRTs. Another way would be the REAL way that 50's movies worked with an anaglyph. (blue/red seperation) but that usually looks like crap.

    That all said, Call me a skeptic.

    --

    People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.

  14. My personal speculation on the Revolution by PhosterPharms · · Score: 1

    Nintendo has always shown itself to be a company that understands two things: The joy of refined gaming, and the need to make a profit. It sounds to me like pursuing 3D gaming would not be in line with either of these goals.

    My guess for the Revolution is that its interface is going to be something like the net-city from Snow Crash. The Big N has said that it is making the Internet a priority with the Revolution, going as far as to include a wireless router. We would buy games online from the Nintendo store (letting them make more money), kinda like what they did in China with the iQue. Basically, think Second Life but done well, and censored in some ways. I think it could rock, if it works. I'll probably be wrong here, but I think it would be awesome if it happened.

    1. Re:My personal speculation on the Revolution by HyperChicken · · Score: 1

      Buy games online? Why, Sega tried that over 10 years ago with 'Sega Channel'. You'd subscribe, hook your Sega up to your cable TV, and get to play games instead of buy them. See http://fiddle.visc.vt.edu/courses/ee4984/Projects1 995/gutolazz.html for some info.

      --
      Free of Flash! Free of Flash!
    2. Re:My personal speculation on the Revolution by PhosterPharms · · Score: 1

      I loved Sega Channel. One of my friends had it when I was little and we played a ton of DoomTroopers and Vectorman on it. My belief, however, is that Nintendo is not creating a subscription based service, and instead is doing something more akin to Valve's Steam. The service will be free, but you'll pay full price to buy games through the service.

    3. Re:My personal speculation on the Revolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt it. Valve's Stream sucks. Everyone hates it. Nintendo is sunk if they do something similar.

  15. 3D World Runner Anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3-D Nintendo is Old-School:

    3D World Runner Anyone?

    Still have recurring falling nightmares from that one.

  16. The journalistic pillar! by focitrixilous+P · · Score: 3, Funny
    It comes from IGN! Surely this is truth.

    Wait. IGN is right on par with supermarket tabloids.

    In other news, Princess Peach is pregnant with Master Chief's child! See page 11!

    --
    SAILING MISHAP
    1. Re:The journalistic pillar! by SetupWeasel · · Score: 1

      When it comes to Baby Toadstool, Mario....

      You are NOT the father!

    2. Re:The journalistic pillar! by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      > When it comes to Baby Toadstool, Mario....
      >
      > You are NOT the father!

      Are you _sure_ about that?

      Chris Mattern

  17. Don't mind if I do! by OmgTEHMATRICKS · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    as always, take this with a grain of salt . . .

    *snags a grain of salt* Yoink! *looks around shadily, then sneaks off into the shadows*

  18. Not impressed by Guspaz · · Score: 0

    3D gaming (of real 3D games, like special LCD screens) has been around for a while. It has never taken off. If nintendo tries to push this, it's a mistake. A waste of time, resources, and for consumers, money.

    I would rather they spent R&D resources on REAL innovations.

    1. Re:Not impressed by Jakeypants · · Score: 1

      "3D gaming (of real 3D games, like special LCD screens) has been around for a while. It has never taken off. If nintendo tries to push this, it's a mistake. A waste of time, resources, and for consumers, money."

      But surely if it could work and be fun, Nintendo would be the company that could do it. I hope this is what Nintendo plans to do, it sounds awesome.

  19. What does this have to do with revolution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Honestly, after watching Nintendo for years I have learned one thing about their announcements: Every early Nintendo announcement is a hint that is trapped in a riddle or pun. The term "Revolution" is probably the riddle or pun that Nintendo is using for their next piece of hardware. Being that I don't see how sterioscopic glasses have anything to do with a "Revolution" I doubt that this rumor is true.

    If I was betting money on what the "Revolution" was, I would say that it would probably be a track ball in place of the right analogue joystick that has a force feedback feature. The reasoning is simple; it is a device that "revolves", will allow you to "feel" rather than touch, and it is not a new technology but is new to being specifically applied to games.

    If I'm correct I'm not sure how well it will work; it should allow for something that is more akin to a mouse and keyboard setup, but if implemented poorly may be a huge problem. To a certain extent this could explain how Nintendo said that games designed specifically to use this device would be difficult to port.

    I don't know, I'm probably wrong and it is a skate board controller or something ...

    1. Re:What does this have to do with revolution? by Elranzer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Anyone realize that the terms "Revolution" and "360" (degrees) are related? I wonder if Microsoft and Nintendo know something that we dont...

    2. Re:What does this have to do with revolution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bingo!

    3. Re:What does this have to do with revolution? by emilng · · Score: 1

      Microsoft came up with "360" after they heard that Nintendo's system was codenamed "Revolution". I'm sure it didn't take long for a bunch of marketing guys to come up with that one.

    4. Re:What does this have to do with revolution? by tincho_uy · · Score: 1

      Well, the last number of IEEE Spectrumcovers some new 3D projection devices. One of them consists of a sphere (much like a plasma ball) in which a translucent screen rotates (you know, revolves?) and several colored lasers project light into it.

      Persistance of vision causes the eey to perceive a 3D image, much as you see the time floating in the air on those whacky clocks that have leds mounted on a rapidly moving arm, but in 3D

      This is not to say, of course, that such a device would be sold at 250 bucks for a gaming system... but it's interesting anyway

    5. Re:What does this have to do with revolution? by AzraelKans · · Score: 1

      Actually I have been wondering the same. 360 and revolution means the same. (although according colony.org the real name of xbox is "xbox NEXT" or maybe thats a code?)

      BTW In the ARG colony theres an image of a videogame store and the sign of the xbox is right on top of playstation (no guessing on the meaning there!) what is curious is that Nintendo is in the next window almost at the same level than the XBOX sign, just sitting there. It is weird. Does it mean MS doesnt see Nintendo as a competitor Or does it means something else...?

      Anyone found weird that the xbox2 amd the "revolution" share some specs? (ati radeon card, wifi etc?)

      Analysts have been speculating about MS and Nintendo joining forces (or working in a joint project) for years Is that what they meant with "revolution"? (maybe Revolution is LIVE compatible?)

      Conspiracy theories of course we will found out soon enough.

      --
      Go ahead MOD my day!
      More opinions here
  20. Not quite so certain by MilenCent · · Score: 1

    3D projection has been used in games before - Sega's "Hologram: Time Traveler" game, a rather dopey Dragon's Lair type game with live action footage is an example, though it wasn't true 3D.

    And 3D itself has also been used, by Nintendo themselves in the Virtual Boy, and by Sega with their Master System's interesting, but not interesting enough, special glasses.

    But yeah, it'd be cool if this were it, and in full color, and could be viewed by everyone in the room without everyone needing special expensive headgear.

  21. Calm Down Everyone by Elranzer · · Score: 2, Informative

    Who the hell said this was set in stone? This is a rumor. I highly doubt that Nintendo is going to make a mistake when they know what the people want. These are the same people who made Link older in the upcoming Zelda 2005 because it's what the people were crying about. I also doubt Nintendo is going to bring to the attention anything that even slightly resembles Virtual Boy.

    Please give Nintendo more credit than claiming that they're gonna put some ancient 3D gimmick effect in their new console that will scare off consumers and 3rd-party publishers. These are the people who (currently) have been in the business longer than anyone else has (can't claim Atari now, they're gone). Everyone needs to stop preparing for Nintendo's funeral, it's not coming any time soon.

  22. Bullshit by ThePolkapunk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is a load of crap. Nintendo has repeatedly said that this will operate conventionally on the television, and that the "revolution" for the system is the method of control. This guy has no idea what he's talking about. Just tossing out more fud that slashdot is gleefully snatching up.

    --
    Dear diary: Today I stuffed some dolls full of dead rats I put in the blender.
  23. ..okay, so no goggles.. by jx100 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Way back before the release of the DS, I ran across a story saying that Nintendo licensed some sort of 3d LCD display technology from Sharp. I guessed it was going to go with the DS, but it seems it might've actually been headed for this system.

  24. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi...You're my only hope. by Absentminded-Artist · · Score: 1

    I have only one question. Does the Revolution come in an R2D2 form factor?

    --
    The Splintered Mind - Overcoming
  25. Holographic Projection ? by The+Raffy · · Score: 1

    3D Glasses and the like and the only ways of making 3D projection, I'm thinking maybe nintendo's got some kind of funky new holographic projection device as well as somekind of contoller that'll allow people to entirely immerse themselves within the game like they've been trying to get going all these years.

    --
    I figured out whats wrong with the world , its other people -Dilbert
  26. No glasses display? by dnixon112 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seems like bullshit but perhaps if they incorporated this 3d display technology (as reported here) or at least have those screens on the market in a bundle with the console at launch there could be an outside chance Nintendo is this crazy. If those screens work well it could be an amazing experience, but many forces would be working against Nintendo even if they did adopt this 3D display technology. The commercialization of virtual interaction and 3d display? It certainly would fit the name of Revolution.

  27. If anyone can do it right... by cgenman · · Score: 1

    Oddly enough, most of the major controller innovations that led to the common standard controller design can be attributed to nintendo. They had the first shoulder buttons, the first diamond-pattern buttons, the first standard analog stick, the first rumble pack. Sony beat them to Analog buttons, but dropped the ball in terms of pushing games to use it.

    They also have a history of failed launches of tech that was too unique... the Virtual Boy, the Bulky Drive, etc. But if 3D is going to get mass-market at some point, it's probably going to happen at Nintendo first.

    --
    The ______ Agenda
  28. Mod parent up by fondue · · Score: 1

    And now linking to the non-story on Slashdot will lend this utterly baseless rumour more credence among idiots.

    Zonk, please stop posting any garbage you are sent as news. A high proportion of /.'s readership probably isn't savvy enough to filter this nonsense out, so effectively you're running a news service that is leaving people LESS informed than before they visited. Just quit already.

    --

    Preferences > Homepage > Customize stories on homepage > Authors > Zonk > Uncheck

  29. If I had... by binaryspiral · · Score: 1

    As always, take this with a grain of salt.

    If I had a grain of salt for every time I've read that on /.

  30. I'll get it by aliquis · · Score: 1

    No matter what, I can't let Nintendo die, and even if the others rip whatever is new the original should be the one who gets supported.

    Imaginge a game like biplanes on this one, or any kind of flight simulator, or quake.

  31. Re:Stupid! by LSD-OBS · · Score: 1

    How is this a troll? The AC is right...

    --
    Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
  32. The only way this could be true is if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The only way this could be true is if they included some kind of screen with the thing, so everyone was stuck using that instead of their television.

    If they were going to do 3D on the TV, their options would be very limited:

    1. They could use red and blue 3d glasses. But that would look terrible.

    2. They could try to find some way to make one set of vertical or horizontal lines appear in one eye, and the other appear in the other eye. But that would cut the resolution in half in one direction, and make the scene look low res... I think. Maybe the same trick that makes a scene look higher res at the cost of interlacing and using half the framerate on each scanline would still work if you could only see one set of scanlines in each eye at a time? Might not work with newer progressive scan televisions though?

    3. They could use shutter glasses and display every other frame, but if every other frame is a full frame, then that would be 15 frames per second of video. If every other frame were interlaced frames, then that might work. Come to think of it, that might work with progressive TV cause you'd get 30 full frames per second. 30fps though, in each eye... Seems like it would flicker... Maybe there's a way this could be mitgated.

    The other two options are that they provide their own TV for you. A small LCD screen with some kind of 3D technology in it, or two tin LCD screens in a pair of glasses which would probably be headache inducing.

  33. Full of it. by solomonrex · · Score: 1

    Everything's been tried in videogames. Microsoft had a 'tilt' pad for the PC- I still can't believe they didn't try it for the Xbox.

    A touchpad controller, I can kind of believe. I can't remember anyone doing a 'mouse gestures' style interface besides Nin on the DS.

  34. The Virtua Boy 2! by LordJezo · · Score: 1

    This could be exciting, and this time it will be in total color instead of the migrane inducing red death on the original!

  35. One good reason by tprime · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can think of one really good reason why a major VISUAL change will not be what the "Revolution" is all about.

    How do you port titles from the xbox2 and ps3, which regarless of what MS and Sony say are fundamentally similar, to a system that will require a totally different setup. This especially is true for a console that has recently been trying to mend fences with developers. Nintendo would need Sony-like power over its developers to even think about trying something this drastic.

    On the other hand, 1st party titles would be impressive.

    --
    http://www.tomandemily.com
    1. Re:One good reason by |/|/||| · · Score: 1
      It also works in reverse. How do you port a game designed for a new display system back to a 2D projection? It depends on the game, but the answer is probably "you don't."

      It may be a gamble, but if the technology is truly revolutionary and (most importantly) fun, then people will buy it and third party developers will jump all over it.

      I realize that this whole discussion is based on speculation and rumor, but it's interesting to contemplate.

      --
      [javac] 100 errors
  36. Even If True, It Says Little by robbway · · Score: 1

    "Real-time 3D projection." The label "Real-time" doesn't mean a lot to me here. As for 3D projection, is that "into" the TV, or "out from" the TV, or something else? I mean, all video games systems generate 3D these days. That's hardly revolutionary and fits the mathematical definition of "projection."

    So let me take a stab. How about a thin transparent mylar that changes the angle of half of the image to the left eye, and the other half to the right (at a documented distance for 90 percentile humans)? If the left view and right view are interlaced and separated?

  37. Great! another fake news post in slashdot. by AzraelKans · · Score: 1

    3d projection IS generating 2d images from 3d data, all 3d games have it. (Maybe Nintendo introduced a different method because of the legal threat the industry had a while ago.)

    It has nothing to do with holographic view, or stereoscopic vision which is what the poster thought.

    Aparently Nintendo is keeping the details on its next console tightly sealed, however considering what happened to the DS (the big and never before "device" is a handheld with 2 screens) I wouldnt worry about what makes revolution "revolutionary" nintendo doesnt like expending too much money on consoles so dont expect nothing really impressive theres no point in speculation.

    --
    Go ahead MOD my day!
    More opinions here
  38. I haven't been this excited since RAD RACER by Alzheimers · · Score: 1

    I haven't been this excited about 3D on a Nintendo console since Square released RAD RACER back in 1987.

    http://www.flyingomelette.com/reviews/nes/radracer .html

  39. 50 ft Mario by paully_007 · · Score: 1

    It would be sweet if it included a projector....

    I wouldn't mind taking down all my Van Gogh posters to play some Mario Kart on the wall.

    --

    3D projection is as queer as a football bat.

  40. VR by kenosaga · · Score: 1

    When I first read this article, it sounded like total baloney to me, but then I realized, I'd seen something very similar once before. Several Universities have CAVE systems which use a series of projectors to immerse the user in a 3D environment. The CAVE system I saw, approximately 10 years ago, was rather primitive, even though it was running on a 128 CPU machine with 6 other dedicated machines (with state of the art video cards) controlling each projector. However, now-a-days they can run on a single PC.

    I'm just not sure how it could be implimented with a one screen system. I also don't think the market is ready for mass-market VR gaming, but Nintendo's never let things like that bother them in the past.

    Personally, I don't think its very likely to be true, but it is possible, and similar things have been done in the past.

  41. New? by JensR · · Score: 1

    Didn't SEGA have some shutter glasses for the master system? IIRC only two games supported it and both were crap.

  42. Patents... by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

    I started the application process for a Patent reguarding 3d shutter glasses and console games (no, that's not the whole patent, it was a specific way of using them), but I decided not to complete the filing because that was right around when the Pokemon Seizures happened.

    I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a lawsuit for causing seizures in small children.

    This is about as likely as Jack-In-The-Box deciding to offer extra rare patties; or Wendy's to start selling 'Chicken Fingers'

  43. Motion capture by tepples · · Score: 1

    You mean, the games will be created in Japan

    Both Sony and Nintendo are Japanese companies, and a lot of their games are made in Japanese studios.

    and feature people in rubber monster suits?

    How else would you do motion capture?

  44. Nintendo has been around for over a century by tepples · · Score: 1

    These are the people who (currently) have been in the business longer than anyone else has (can't claim Atari now, they're gone).

    Nintendo has been around longer than Atari, Midway, or Infogrames. Nintendo started out making playing cards before the semiconductor was even invented.

  45. Wendy's chicken fingers by tepples · · Score: 1

    This is about as likely as Jack-In-The-Box deciding to offer extra rare patties; or Wendy's to start selling 'Chicken Fingers'

    Wendy's already does sell chicken fingers. Wendy's Homestyle Chicken Strips

  46. Wintendo by tepples · · Score: 1

    Analysts have been speculating about MS and Nintendo joining forces (or working in a joint project) for years

    If true, it'll bring a new meaning to the term Wintendo.

  47. LOOK! REAL COMPANY DEVELOPING WITH GAME CONSOLES by Jimmahz · · Score: 1

    www.opticalitycorporation.com check the lower right hand box, the company states that they are working with game console manufacturers for 3d projection...check it out it's real!