PlayStations of the Cross

FWIW by Otter · 2005-05-02 03:27 · Score: 3, Funny

N'Lightning is a terrific name. Or maybe I just spend so much time reading about Mandriva, Linspire and Hairy Warthog that anything half-sane sounds good.

"PlayStations of the Cross" is also pretty clever -- a bit too clever for a Slashdot submitter. Let's see, did he just copy the NYT title...yup.

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What I'm listening to now on Pandora...

Re:FWIW by Naikrovek · 2005-05-02 05:12 · Score: 3, Funny

yes, but did he copy the funniest department line every grace slashdot from the NYTimes article?

from the forgive-me-father-for-i-have-HADOKEN! dept.

(its even funnier than my suggestion of "from the stuff-that-antimatters dept" on a story relating to antimatter research)

Crusades by austad · 2005-05-02 03:30 · Score: 4, Funny

I'm looking forward to a game, we'll call it Crusades: Kill the Heathens.

You could run around and try to convert people, and when they won't give up all of their beliefs and conform to something they've never heard of, you can kill them.

I know it's not realistic though, that would never happen in real life.

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Re:Crusades by uncoveror · 2005-05-02 06:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

Too bad that when the crusaders got to Jerusalem, they too killed the Coptic Christians for not recognizing the Pope.

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The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
Re:Crusades by DavidTC · 2005-05-02 07:57 · Score: 3, Interesting

That's better than the Fourth Crusade, when they sacked Constantinople, which had been Christian since it was founded. (Well, renamed.)
In fact, it was the Eastern half of the Church! It wasn't some splinter group, the Church had divided itself in half when Rome fell, and they both recognized each other. In fact, 9 years latter, Bishop of Constantinople was placed second to the Pope!

After the Pope learned of the first attack, when the man the Crusaders were paid to put on the throne was put there, the Pope forbid them from attacking again, which they did anyway when that man died.

Not only did they attack it again, but they then burned the city. After they had conquered it.

The Fourth Crusade has to go down in history as the most absurd of the Crusades. Watch the Church...attack itself! Let's convert those Catholics to Catholics!

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If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Re:Crusades by __aamkky7574 · 2005-05-02 11:42 · Score: 2, Informative

Who modded this "interesting"? It's pure fiction. The Hagia Sophia in Constantinople was actually sacked by Christians in 1204, led by the then Doge of Venice: http://aggreen.net/church_history/1204_sack.html/
A mob rushed into Santa Sophia. With the Image of the Pantacrator looking down upon them from the great dome, they broke up the altar for its gold content, smashed the icons, threw the Holy Gifts to the floor, seized the church vessels for their Jewels, and tore mosaics and tapestries from the walls. Horses and mules were brought into the church the better to carry off the sacred vessels, gold, silver, and whatever else they could gather. Drunken soldiers drank from chalices and ate from patens while riding asses draped with priestly vestments. A mocking prostitute was placed on the Patriarch's chair to dance and sing obscene songs. This pattern of pilferage and desecration was repeated in churches, monasteries and palaces throughout the city. The tombs of the emperors were rifled, and all of the classical statues and monuments which had survived from ancient Greece and imperial Rome were destroyed. One writer wrote that never in history had so much beauty, so much superb craftsmanship been so wantonly destroyed in so short a space of time. What was not carried off was burned, smashed, melted down for its precious metal content, or stripped for its jewels.
In 2001, the then Pope apologised for the sack.
Constantinople was eventually conquered by the Ottomans well after the last crusade. Far from sacking it, then turned it into a mosque without much destruction (even the original mosaics - depicting human forms - were covered by plaster rather than destroyed).

P.

Non religious by superpulpsicle · 2005-05-02 03:31 · Score: 4, Interesting

I am totally non-religious, I could care less about worshiping anything. After signing up with a subscription based music service (Rhapsody), I found it shocking that christian pop/rock/hiphop sounded this good.

In fact, I have turned my view 180 degrees. I used to think religious folks never stop whinning about gangsta/satanic industrial music and video games etc. Now I seriously think they deserve a chance to be marketed.

Re:Non religious by mbourgon · 2005-05-02 05:41 · Score: 2, Insightful

Ya know, I didn't care either.... and then had to listen to it while eating lunch yesterday. Crappy rhymes? Check. Bad 80's guitar solos? Check. Derivative tripe? Check, check.

It was almost like watching the South Park episode - Cartman was right, they will buy anything marketed at them. I hate to say it, but I think the market's too big, it allows mediocre music to be successful. (Insert RIAA joke here)

--
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples

(Organized) Religion is always a cash-cow by Kosi · 2005-05-02 03:32 · Score: 4, Insightful

I wonder that it took so long until someone saw the enormous potential to make money in sticking $RELIGION stickers on computer games.

Re:(Organized) Religion is always a cash-cow by cyber0ne · 2005-05-02 03:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's not really a question of just saying "this game is religious" that will make it sell. Generally, marketing based on that is best suited for parents buying games for their kids, usually young kids. Thus, such religious games tend to be geared towards a very young audience and, while they do sell, they're not really all that popular.

I would be particularly interested in religion-based games that target a more mainstream audience, as most other popular games do. Let's face it, if you take Western religion as an example, the Bible is full of violent conflict that would be great for a game.

The problem as I see it, however, is in the approach taken in designing such a game. It is often a project taken on by a religious group, not a gaming group. In their eyes, the story needs to be exact, otherwise it goes against their religion. After all, you can't risk letting a child see David actually get KILLED by his enemies on the screen, that would be heresy in their minds.

Thus, the games tend to play out more like a movie than a game, which goes back to being geared more towards small children than mainstream gamers. They have to be able to risk that bit of what they call heresy if they want the game to be interesting. If you're going to play David and fight all your enemies, there needs to be an actual risk of losing if the game is to be at all enjoyable.

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http://publicvoidlife.blogspot.com
Re:(Organized) Religion is always a cash-cow by Meagermanx · 2005-05-02 04:10 · Score: 2, Funny

I always thought the problem was just that Christians are supposed to be kind, loving, and have amazing cheek-turning abilities.
You would just end up with games like "Christ Christ Revolution" and "Desert Walker Alpha 3: Tournament Edition".
Might convey the true Christian spirit, but having lame as hell games is NOT the best way to convert people.
Re:(Organized) Religion is always a cash-cow by cyber0ne · 2005-05-02 04:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

Well, there really is no "best way to convert people," but that's another discusstion entirely.

You do have a good point, though. When one thinks "Christian game" one thinks of the life of Christ himself, who was entirely non-violent (I mostly see him as a teacher more than anything else) and inevitably had to meet a bloody demise here on Earth. (Yes, I believe in Christ and I believe in his victory and that it has simply yet to come to fruition here on Earth, but that again is another discussion entirely.)

That's why I've pointed out the Old Testament, particularly the stories of David, in a couple posts in this thread. That's really where the shoot-em-up action can be found.

Sure, there's plenty of post-Christ violence as well, such as with the Romans or later in the dark ages, but that stuff would honestly be more difficult for a game. What would you do in a game against the Roman Empire, slowly wear it down over 300 years or more? As for the dark ages, you risk offending other cultures a bit too much and the game would get red-taped into oblivion. But who would be offended by the more ancient battles? Does anyone really claim to be descended from the Amakalites these days?

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http://publicvoidlife.blogspot.com
Re:(Organized) Religion is always a cash-cow by Enrico+Pulatzo · 2005-05-02 05:06 · Score: 3, Informative

"entirely non-violent"? Is this the same guy who fashioned a whip and drove salesmen out of the temple?
Re:(Organized) Religion is always a cash-cow by Anonymous Coward · 2005-05-02 05:35 · Score: 3, Funny

> You would just end up with games like "Christ Christ Revolution"

Totally, I can never get that "wine wine water wine water loaves wine wine fishes loaves loaves" combo in level 7.
Re:(Organized) Religion is always a cash-cow by king-manic · 2005-05-03 04:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

Just a notE: Cheek turnign isn't rolling over and playind dead. It's defiance. If someone beats you, make them kill you. Show you don't care what they do here because your reward is else where.

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"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Oh, the possibilities by Toast10101 · 2005-05-02 03:41 · Score: 2, Funny

I, for one, can't wait for "Jesus Christ: Vampire Hunter"

Re:Oh, the possibilities by SetupWeasel · 2005-05-02 03:55 · Score: 4, Informative

You do know that there is a movie by that name.

Watch it very, very drunk.

Syncretism by hey! · 2005-05-02 03:51 · Score: 3, Interesting

Fusion of differing systems of belief, especially when success is partial or the result is heterogeneous.

As much as one might long to go ad fontes -- to the wellspring, Christianity as we know it in the West is irretrievably commingled with the violent, demon haunted world view of the northern tribes it filtered through. Certain elements of the ancient first and second century viewpoint can be recaptured, such as proximate parousia (the belief in the imminent Secnd Coming), but somehow they come out with more than a soupçon of Ragnarok in them.

So, we have the violent fantasy of divinely sanctioned holy war, in which, drawing the sword in the name of the Prince of Peace, indulging one's blood lust is not only sinless, but a positive good.

For most, Holy War is of course a metaphor. But where there is a metaphor, be certain that some will take it literally. Games are only games of course, except when they are indoctrination. That's difference between a Christian FPS and, say, GTA, which although it is disgusting in my opinion, is also harmless because it is meant to be, and is understood to be an absurd view of the world.

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Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.

Re:Syncretism by mausmalone · 2005-05-02 04:02 · Score: 2, Interesting

::looks up some of those words in the dictionary::

I don't know that the latin was totally necessary, but you do have a solid point. This is a big reason why most Christian games don't do well. Most either take the place of an action/fps type title where you're on the good side of a holy war (or literally a war between heaven and hell sometimes), or it's like a choose your own adventure stories, but with the world's most obvious "correct" choices. That's probably why the only really successful christian games I can think of are the old NES Bible Adventures games (because they did semi-fun things, like playing Noah and gathering animals to place in the ark).

When I really think of it, though, probably the most "christian" game I've ever played in terms of values and teachings would have to be Animal Crossing. There's no violence, but there's still lots to do, with a heavy emphasis on helping your neighbors and improving your neighborhood.

Granted, there's nothing officially christian in Animal Crossing, but it does teach a lot of the (often overlooked) values from the new testament.

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-=-=-=-=-=
I'd rather be flamed than ignored.

First Person Shooters? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-05-02 03:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

I know this'll get modded to troll quickly, because I'm daring to say something most Christians don't want to hear, but if a Christian is supposed to be like Christ, and Christ was the "Prince of Peace", then I can't help but ask, if Jesus were in the situations created in such a game, what would he do?

And wouldn't the goal, in a Christian game, be to do what Jesus would do?

So, yes, I would think any kind of shooter would be the antithesis of what Christ taught.

But I know few Christians that ever consider that, since it would be inconvenient.

Re:First Person Shooters? by cyber0ne · 2005-05-02 04:05 · Score: 3, Interesting

But I know few Christians that ever consider that, since it would be inconvenient.

You know mostly lazy Christians.

Read the Old Testament for the more violent epics. Consider this for a video game:

You are recruited into the king's army. You fight battle after battle, each one more challenging than the last. Eventually, you have more political clout than the king himself because you're such a great war hero. The king then tries to kill you, but his own son betrays him and helps you flee. Actually, I forget what happened between the fleeing and the king's death (feel free to look it up, it should be in the books of Samuel), but eventually you return and are crowned king yourself. You fight more battles, further establish your kingdom. You raise your son to be a great leader after you. Etc. Etc.

If done well, such things could make for pretty good video games. And that's just one character in one religion (or one combined source of a couple religions).

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http://publicvoidlife.blogspot.com

Lots of money to be made by moof1138 · 2005-05-02 03:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

There is a fairly large subset of Christians in the U.S. who really want to hide from modern society. They are threatened by secular society, threatened by contemporary culture, threatened by modern science, etc. Marketing escapist stuff that helps to reinforce their little worldview would certainly be a cash cow.

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Hyperbole is the worst thing ever.

Re:Lots of money to be made by CrazyJim1 · 2005-05-02 05:20 · Score: 3, Funny

When society is selling sex, drugs, and immoral behavior, of course Christians would not want to indulge in it. I used to like GTA:Vice City, but since God spoke to me, I threw it away and didn't buy GTA:San Andreas. There are definately video games out there that God doesn't want you to be playing. The trouble is that they're not always easy to spot. You could be playing an RPG, and then towards the end it could force you to worship some false god to continue. Video games are notorious for suprises popping up. Thats why it would be nice for some Christian games. Games a morally straight person won't have to worry about sinning in the heart to play.

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God spoke to me.
Re:Lots of money to be made by CrazyJim2 · 2005-05-02 07:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

What the hell? Some guy takes my name and forces me to be CrazyJim2 and then goes and copies all of my great game ideas, and I'm the troll? As if! However, CrazyJim has a point. I used to be top rated in Warcraft 3, but then I found out the IEEE was trying to subvert me through that game. That's why I'm designing a game with Tekken-like third person FPS action that will bring people together. Using my scientific computing skills, I found out that if properly implemented True A.I. will research bees and God and build me a spaceship toget out of this horrible place. Until then, I will keep designing my game. I am currently implementing these cool swords with rockets in the hilt. If Sony really wanted to make money they'd publish my game.

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"But theres things mightier than a sword, and there are things mightier than pens. Guns and rap." - CrazyJim1

100 Philistine Foreskins by putamare · 2005-05-02 03:53 · Score: 2, Funny

Collect 100 Philistine Foreskins & win the princess. 200 for bonus points!

Get outside the box by FreshMeat-BWG · 2005-05-02 04:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

Scott Wong, of Brethren, acknowledges that ''the actual act of pulling a trigger and hunting down something -- somebody might have a problem with that. I always tell people that if you want good drama, you have to have conflict -- without that, you can't make your point.''

I didn't realize that the only solution to conflict and the only way to create drama is "pulling a trigger and hunting down something".

I am a Christian and I look forward to seeing high-quality Christian-themed games (even those including forms of violence), but to really create a new market that doesn't simply compete for shelf-space with other FPS titles, wouldn't a new gaming paradigm be a better opportunity?

For that matter, there are other game types that could be well suited to spreading the Word of God that don't require killing someone or something such as puzzle, adventure, strategy, simulation, etc.

I am not arguing that a Christian game should be void of violence, but these Christian game developers should not lock themselves into the mode of thinking that the only way to develop a hugely popular title is to compete directly with other hugely popular titles such as other FPS titles with gratuitous violence.

Christian developers say they will not embrace: the moral relativism embodied in the R.P.G.

So violence is OK, but looking at things from other perspectives is not? Again I don't think these guys should make this assumption across the board. Let someone play the role of Satan; however, if this is a faith-based/Christian game that is to teach a certain message, then I would assume playing that role would provide the opportunity to teach the lesson of why playing that role is not as desirable as it initially seems.

Christian game reviews by Reignking · 2005-05-02 04:04 · Score: 3, Funny

There are plenty of Christian-centered game review web sites out there...

I can see it now..."You turn the corner" "You hear something" "You ask yourself, WWJD?"

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One man's Funny is another man's Offtopic.

Re:Christian game reviews by Meagermanx · 2005-05-02 04:23 · Score: 2, Funny

That would make a friggin' hilarious text-based adventure game... If I had mod points, sir, you would get one.
Re:Christian game reviews by Dr.+GeneMachine · 2005-05-02 07:22 · Score: 2, Funny

Yeah, infocom-style, man!
You are in a maze of twisty little dogmas, all alike.
It is pitch black. You might get eaten by a heretic. >WWJD For hints consult your hint booklet.

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This comment does not exist.

Simpsons... by Reignking · 2005-05-02 04:08 · Score: 2, Funny

Don't forget Billy Graham's Bible Blasters, the only video game owned by the Flandersesess -- Convert the Heathen!

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One man's Funny is another man's Offtopic.

Re:Simpsons... by blighter · 2005-05-02 05:36 · Score: 2, Funny

Which scene also contains my favorite response to people who want to play when I'm playing a one-player game:
Rodd and Todd - "Can we play now, Bart?"

Bart - "You are playing. We're a team!"

Rodd and Todd - "Yay!!!"

Re:As a Christian... by Meagermanx · 2005-05-02 04:19 · Score: 3, Funny

So what you're saying is- Wait. Okay. So basically all Christa- Nope. I can't do it. Too easy.

So... by Sylver+Dragon · 2005-05-02 04:29 · Score: 4, Funny

So, when do we get the hentai game based on Lot and his daughters?

--
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.

How about... by Adelbert · 2005-05-02 04:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

How about a Muslim themed game? Or a game based on Judaism? Sikhism? Buddhism? No?

Re:How about... by cyber0ne · 2005-05-02 04:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

How about a Muslim themed game? Or a game based on Judaism? Sikhism? Buddhism? No?

I guess I personally don't know enough about those religions to even imagine such a game, with the exception of ancient Judaism of course. But if it's diversity you're after, go for it. I know several Sikh teens whose parents would probably love to replace their GTA titles with a game that promotes their traditions.

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http://publicvoidlife.blogspot.com
Re:How about... by HanClinto · 2005-05-02 05:03 · Score: 2, Insightful

Probably a troll, but I'll bite.
I thought that many of the FF games had a buddhist/new age theology behind them? I didn't think that there was any shortage of Buddhist games. There are several puzzle games that are made specifically for main-line Buddhism as a relaxation aide -- 3 minutes of Googling should bring up 2 or 3 of these.

There certainly are a fair number of mixed-bag "pagan" games, combining ideals from wicca, witchcraft, buddhism, and other new age "roll your own" religion. Ultima and other medieval RPG's seem to do this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a benefit to chanting "om om om" in UO at certain shrines?

As far as polytheism -- perhaps Black and White?

There's a fair number of Atheist games, GTA comes to mind for one embodying hedonistic ideals. (not criticizing, just noting. I happen to have really enjoyed playing GTA)

For Judaism, there are several games that love to play off of the classic "heaven vs. hell" war (without dealing with the person of Jesus as Christ). While I doubt Jews would want to play the games, many things are spun off of warped Judaic theology. Things that come to mind for this are Spawn (comic book and movie, not really a game), the Diablo series, and many other books/movies such as the "His Dark Materials" series and that one recent movie with Keanu Reeves in it -- the name eludes me atm.

As far as blatantly satanic games, you don't have to look too far for those. :)

Respectfully,
clint

The original DOOM series. by Stoutlimb · 2005-05-02 05:25 · Score: 3, Funny

The more you kill, the further you descend into the pits of hell. That sounds like a pretty good faith-based lesson for people. Go play Doom.

Bork!

Good News by tealtalon · 2005-05-02 05:40 · Score: 2, Insightful

When they have their own games to play they can stop trying to tame the rest of them down to feed to their sheltered children. Matter of fact, they should start their own satelite company. Instead of direct tv or dish, GOD TV. YES! Then they don't have to sensor everyone elses television. Don't forget movie rentals. It will be just like blockbuster, but without that pesky SATANIC Harry Potter to poison little Jimmy's mind with witchcraft. The posibilities are endless. The days of evangelicals craming shit down my throat are limited...

/me wakes up

Go ahead...mod it offtopic

Kick Ass=Christian by StingRayGun · 2005-05-02 06:24 · Score: 2, Insightful

Well, as a pretty devout and even hard line Christain I think this idea SUCKS. I don't like the popularized Bush type of Chistianity and I think this easily falls into that catagory.

From a Bible standpoint everything that is really awesome glorifies God. As a future game developer (it probably takes a religious nut job to have enough hope to think that I can get into the games industry) I will focus on making the most kick ass, intelligent and fun games possible. Sticking a Christian sticker on something doesn't make it Godly (please no Socratic dialogs on what is Holy please) or holy or anything. If it can't compete with other games then to me, it is actually LESS Godly then let's say, UT2004.

Please, leave God's name out of it. Just make something that is AWESOME. That goes for music, for movies and whatever.

(A good example of this idea is this: http://www.primermovie.com/ It's one of the best sci fi movies in a decade, mad by a Christian guy but nowhere does it say THIS IS A CHRISTIAN MOVIE anywhere on it. It's just a great film.)

Not about conversion by bluGill · 2005-05-02 06:28 · Score: 3, Insightful

These games are not about converting you to my religion, they are about giving me a passtime that doesn't violate all the principals of my religion.

My religion tells everyone not to watch (or own) a TV. There is nothing evil about a electron gun in a vacuum tube exciting a few phosphors (substitute your technology of choice). What is evil is what it is used for. Nothing is wrong with using a TV so you can take college classes from someone on a different continent. There is something wrong when you use TV to show sex, violence, and so on. (I picked two extremes, you have to decide where the dividing line is between them - if you even agree sex and violence is evil).

Video games are not evil of themselves. They can teach puzzle solving skills. A game of pac-man once a week has no value, but it isn't evil. (addiction to pac-man is evil, but that isn't the fault of the game itself) However most of the popular games go far beyond the line.

I'm not sure I agree that christian games are the solution to the problem. However the problem being solved isn't a reach out to non-Christians, it is a lack of things Christians can do.

Re:Wha-wha-wha? by darthtrevino · 2005-05-02 06:35 · Score: 4, Interesting

I don't know man. I listened to Christian music exclusively for a few months. It was a little bit too much for me. Or perhaps to be more precise too little.

The big problem with the Christian subculture is that it is very ivory-toweristic. Meaning that when I was in youth group in high school, we were discouraged from listening to non-christian music, which means "not from a Christian label". Instead of training ourselves to discerns what's right and wrong in the world and actively engage it, we wall ourselves into our own world and make it sinful to engage with anything else.

That's just bad reasoning and you'll find it all over American Christianity, and it's a big reason I don't go to Christian bookstores anymore. I get this feeling that there are some people at the top making big bucks by building this subculture of isolationism and labeling all secular media as evil.

And honestly most Christian music sounds tripe and disingenuine to me. (not all, just most).

...So I've been listening to alot of U2 lately.

Potential by Bongo+Bill · 2005-05-02 15:18 · Score: 2, Insightful

I say go for it. Religion had so much potential for good stories and intuitive gameplay that I'm surprised it's gone untapped as long as it has. Maybe it's the unwritten rule that religious popular media have to be a sort of propaganda for their faith, rather than actually making something interesting out of it, I don't know. Nobody likes to play a condescending sales pitch or an evangelistic circle-jerk.

Take something out of Acts, for instance. Go around as Paul, talk to people and stuff. Make it a strategy game or something. Nice and slow-paced, let the story sink in.

For the action games, set it in Revelation. You're just some angel and they send you on missions and you get to blow shit up with divine fury rather than conventional explosives. Or maybe you're Michael and you get in a huge fight with this dragon that just won't die. Imagine the special effects - can any studio depict an amphibious creature with seven blasphemous heads and ten crowned horns and the body of a leopart and feet like a bear and a mouth like a lion, without making it look ridiculous?

There's no need to limit it to Christianity, either. Take Norse legend - pick a god, play out the story. Wanna be Odin and try to satisfy your undying thirst for knowledge? Go ahead! Wanna be Thor and pick a fight with the Frost Giant? Sure! Whatever you want!

I'd buy those games if they can keep the evangelism down.

--
...but is it art?

The Ultimate Market by popo · 2005-05-03 05:48 · Score: 2, Funny

Face it: The Religious Right is *the* ultimate market. I mean this both politically and comercially -- there is no easier market to sell to.

First off, the communications channels in organized religion are second to none. No other community of this size has such smoothly functioning internal communications regarding brand, product favorites and traction.

Secondly, they are *by definition* non-critical of all things "faith related". (The entire definition of "Faith" is belief without criticism). The Church discourages criticism and independent thought -- as it always has. Products which appeal to core beliefs benefit from swift, non-critical product acceptance.

Thirdly, religious institutions are increasingly commercial -- which means both distribution and marketing channels are increasingly bundled with traditional teaching, messaging and outreach programs.

Religious video games are a sure thing. Religious anything is a sure thing.

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------ The best brain training is now totally free : )

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