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UK to lnstall Wireless Mics on London Streets
johnthorensen writes "Looks like parts of London may be seeing wireless microphones on the street sometime soon. At this point, they're looking to use them to monitor noise ordinance violations - if you call about a repeated disturbance, they'll mount one by your place to monitor noise levels for the next several days. The article also notes that they intend to locate them more permanently outside bars and nightclubs. The microphones apparently communicate via wireless Internet connection, although no real details are given as to the nature of said connection. Are London residents getting the boiled frog treatment?"
"Boiled frog treatment"? Huh? Elaborate please, O limey one.
Sounds familiar to the concept in Deus Ex - the use of microphones by police forces to pick up (gun) noise...albeit for slightly different purposes (noise management).
How/where will these be located to avoid tampering?
I don't think its coincidence that George Orwell was British.
The more you know, the less you understand.
This is actually a really good idea. I've had the neighbors call the cops on me for noise violations several times. Nevermind the facts that I had a noise meter monitoring my speakers from a meter away the whole time and I not once broke the law. A little bit of objectivity could keep people from being screwed by prudish neighbors. As long as these microphones are technologically unsuitable to record conversations, this is a great thing.
After all, I am strangely colored.
Westminster council is implementing a wireless network to cover the area, see http://www.etmag.com/publication/magazine/2004-10/ 62.htm.
Noise pollution in cities is considered a major problem in the UK and measures such as this to prevent a minority making life unpleasant for a majority should be welcomed.
If you want loud noise, just wear a pair of headphones...
... and to be honest I can't get too worked up about this.
Public streets are just that: public. You don't get to veto who's watching and/or listening to you. If you want to discuss insurrection or your new water-fuelled-engine invention, go somewhere private.
Besides, excessive noise is an infringement of privacy too, in my opinion.
" if you call about a repeated disturbance, they'll mount one by your place to monitor noise levels for the next several days." Saturday night: End all party (the forth this month to end all) file a noise complaint Monday: Technition installs mic (if your LUCKY, and he installs it on the first workday) Tues-Thurs: nothing recorded on mic Compaired to: Saturday: Police come to noise complaint, tell people to shut it off and go home *note* im a firm beliver in just going over there myself before anyone gets called, its faster than waiting for the police anyway you look at it.
Like the saying goes, never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes. -Pyrotic
The first thing this reminded me of was the book 1984, where people are worried that hidden microphones may pick up their anti Big Brother conversations.
Having said that, it might be okay as long as actual sounds are not transmitted, but rather just sound levels (properly encrypted of course). Somehow, I don't have much faith though.
The UK is slowly moving towards a survalance nation. We have more CCTV per person than anyone else in Europe. Of course, violent crime is actually on the rise.
Frankly, I don't really care if my attacker was caught on CCTV, or even brought to justice. What I care about is not being mugged in the first place, feeling safe and protecting my privacy.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'm not crying slippery slope, but at what point do you stand up and say this isn't right?
The more you know, the less you understand.
the sky didn't fall!
neither did crime
At least they're not touting this as an anti-terrorist measure. I guess that's no longer as credible as it used to be.
Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
Orwell was right! He was only 21 years ahead of his time.
In need of reliable and affordable server monitoring?
One big question about the deployment of such mics: how will they interoperate with other WiFi networks?
If they will interfere or occupy the wrong frequency bands it's a big help to those who have all to fear from the technical achievements of WiFi.
---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
and I have to disagree.
There's a difference between between "public" as in "you can't complain if someone stands next to you in the tube and overhears all of your conversation" and "public" as in "you never know who's watching and listening". London is already tightly packed with CCTV (although I have to object to the "CC". I fail to see what's so closed circuit about wireless cameras that present their pictures on the net, like this one, very close to where I live). Nevertheless, whenever the police publishes pictures of an "unidentified" mugger, you see that it is actually impossible to identify an unknown person on the pictures. What is possible, however, is to follow certain persons around town as they do their daily work.
To cut it short: London is already quite Orwellian (the Royal Opera is right...). We definitely do not need microphones eavesdropping on us. I can already see the first headlines in the metro: "Drug dealers arrested after being overheard by micros!" And everyone will cheer...
Don't know about you, but where I live every single speed camera has been subject to repeat arson by people throwing burning tires over them. So, the speed camera authority responded by creating speed cameras which couldn't have said burning rubber thrown on to them.
However, they severly underestimated the talent and intelligence of drunken men - I swear one night I saw a group of people standing on their shoulders, rotating a speed camera around 90 degrees. Nobody in the police actually realised it had been rotated for a few months...
I take it you're not British. Might I ask if you have any experience living in Britain, or if you're just basing your opinion on second-hand information?
Are they asking for drunken serenades?
Because it sure seems like they are.
While Londoners are using Microphones to handle noise violations, the people of East Palo Alto, California used them for accoustic analysis to determine from which direction the bullets were flying in a particularly gang-ridden neighborhood, and it was reported to have worked. Very few residents complained about their rights being violated.
Now, on the other hand, if London started recording conversations, that would make for a more interesting - and invasive- use. At that point we're heading right for 1984. Of course, London already uses cameras in public places for use as evidence, so their networking infrastructure is already there...
It all depends if the microphones are linked to equipment which is simply measuring the volume, or recording the actual sounds.
Having lived in a flat very close to a nightclub, I'd support measures to fight their noise nuisance. If you were plotting to overthrow the government, you'd have no worries about the microphone picking it up - the relentless thud, thud, thud would drown you out.
I'm scared of numbers that can't be written as a fraction. It's an irrational fear.
I am a Brit. I have lived in several other countries. I have visited many, many more.
The previous poster is exactly right. Most english people do not care about things like this. From ID cards to constant surveillence, most people are not even aware that they exist.
Should they be aware then the standard response is "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
Govt gone to war against Iraq? "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
Civil liberties being removed? "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
Schools and hospitals taken over by unaccountable (by law!) private enterprise? "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
People criminalised for walking about naked in their own homes? (Seriously, some of the recent ASBOs are really stupid) "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
Women gang-raped by Army officers? "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
Until, finally, we'll have immigrants and 'possible terrorists' being sent for 'showers' and 'relocation' and STILL the response will come: "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
I am living in a country of ignorant, apathetic asshats. Frankly, the UK deserves everything it gets. I beg all terrorists reading this post to come and detonate a series of massive dirty bombs up and down the country - put the world and all english people out of our misery. Please. We're too stupid to be allowed to live.
This seems a little odd to me. As far as I'm aware, the British government isn't any more inefficient and bureaucratic than your average democracy. The higher taxes go to pay for services that people in the UK seem to want, like the NHS. The US has lower taxes because it has less public services.
The UK also spends proportionally much less than the US when it comes to military spending. Even though I'd pay less taxes in US, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable knowing that a far larger proportion of my money would go into the military.
...from the very start, Americans have been brainwashed/duped by fancy words. In the 1770s, most working-class Americans did not even WANT a revolution to get away from England. THey mistrusted and hated the American elite just as much as the Brits. And rightfully so.
But the American elite went on a propaganda spree in order to sell them on the Revolution. Of course for elites like jefferson, washington, Madison, Morris, et al., the Revolution was really all about making more money for themselves.
So Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence. And they used that bit of flowery "freedom, brotherhood, and liberty" language the help sell the Revolution. Of course there were other things that helped sell the revolution, like the Brit soldiers coming in and taking up all the jobs, that and some other things. But Jefferson's propaganda set up the Bait and Switch.
So, then once the elites had some grassroots support, they got down to the dirty work of writing a Constitution that was designed to make sure that the lower classes really had little power. The American working classes fell for the Bait and Switch, all right. They bought into the whole freedon-liberty propaganda thing. THe Constitution, as James Madison, the principal writer of the Constitution wrote, was meant to establish a framework from within which the elite could hardly be reached by the masses. And Madison sure did do a good job of creating a government that was very hard to change. He sure did a good job "protecting the opulent minority from the majority," as he put it himself.
The working people had thought they were going to get a fair and representative govt, with just an assembly that mathematically represented the people and whose members could be easily voted out. But instead they got a Constitutional framework that had a president and a Senate elected for long periods of time, and no one was subject to recall.
Whoa, did that piss off the people. THey were a lot more politically aware back then then we are now. They knew that with a president and a senate, elected for such long periods of time, and not even directly elected, that the working people would have little chance of getting true representations. Once the workers got wind of how the actual constitution was goign to differ from what the Declaration of Independence promised, they tried to rush the buildings where the elite were gathering in order to set up the USA as a republic; they tried to kill them several times. But the elites had too many bodyguards.
So, as a result, the elites got what they wanted.
Americans just do not have any idea of a government that actually is on their side. THe American Constitution set up a government that is easily manipulable by the elite. Of course, almost every other western nation is now run much more for the people and less for the elite than is America. So this is one reason why American slashdotters moan and groan about this mikes in the UK. Of course, they don't even know why this thread is present in their culture. That history is not taught in the schools (surprise surprise!)
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Hell, directional speakers might be really neat here, until they ban the use.
"When noise makers are outlawed, only outlaws... &etc."
I forget what 8 was for.
I was exploring a disused cinema in Brisbane, Australia, in the UBD.
I made my way to the rooftop, and on an awning pointing toward the street was a large protective case, padlocked and covered with council stencils, with a large mic pointing toward the street, and an antenna.
The stickers on the case drew mention to ambient noise monitoring..
I guess the UK isn't the first place to have this/
I live in the UK, and it's no joke.
The police here don't actually do hard stuff like going after burglars and muggers, it's too much work and it's not sexy and it may be dangerous to them.
Instead, they spend their time hanging out on motorways fining speeders despite modern cars running like on rails at our speed limit.
And of course, CCTV cameras are going up everywhere so that they can do even more of a bugger all. And now microphones.
The whole system of "law enforcement" here sucks, because it does nothing to stop hard crime. The police end up monitoring the ordinary fairly civil person instead, while the real criminal is totally unhindered.
1984 is definitely relevant.
We choose to pay more taxes
We don't choose to pay more taxes, the taxes are forced on us. How many people do you think like the petrol taxes and other such regressive taxes? How many people choose council tax which is not even based on ability to pay? And even when you do pay the binmen rarely bother emptying your bins, the streets are full of traffic wardens giving people tickets because the council want even more money to waste.
In Britain we seem to have the worst of capitalism and socialism. We pay extortionate taxes, but the services are awful. Hospitals are filthy, inefficient, beaurocratic and disease-ridden, schools are disorderly and full of crime and drugs, roads are falling apart despite motorists being taxed to the hilt, the police care more about the criminals than the victims. Most people don't even get dentists, yet have to pay taxes towards them for other people.
I recall reading some research on the video camera london installed on its streets. They found that operators/human monitors of the feeds spent most of their time focused on the sexual activities of people on the street. They also found some of the people on the street, playing to the cameras.
Well I guess London is getting into the amature candid porn business....
I dunno -- I always thought of the French as the ones getting the frogs...
-- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
Where I live, Indiana, they recently began an sign campaign for our mandatory seatbelt law - "A Law we can live with." Sure its an impingement on my basic freedom to do to my own body what I wish, but its so minor that I won't bother to protest it. This IS the boiling frog - since the founding of America, its citizens have been slowly succombing to the raping of their fundamental freedoms with this very attitude. If you beLIEve that these mikes won't be abused by those in power, you live in a fantasy world. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The end.
You wanna dispute the facts? Dispute them.
I however refer interested readers to the following books:
Howard Zinn's _A People's History of the USA_ (probably available on p2p)
Jerry Fresia's _Toward An American Revolution_ available online here.
Both authors have PHDs (History and Political Science).
Now put up or shut up.....
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Man, they pumped your ass so full of propaganda that you squeak when you walk, and now the shit's coming out your ears and leaking onto your keyboard (and onto Slashdot!).
First, there have NEVER been "mob rule" (ooohhh!!!) in any western nation. THe rich make sure of that. But if we did have "mob rule", we might have horrors like we have in countries where the percent of citizen voting is really high, like say Denmark or Australia, where they have horrors like "Free College" (ewwww!) and "universal healthcare"! (please save us!)
eat shiat and bark at the moon