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MS Calls On Kids to Stop Thought Thieves

theodp writes "Microsoft is calling all UK kids aged 14-17 to enter its Thought Thieves Competition. Remember kids, finalists must agree to formally license all intellectual property rights in their film on terms acceptable to Microsoft. And don't forget to download your free Thought Thieves Poster!"

28 of 709 comments (clear)

  1. Please kids don't steal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's Microsoft's job.

  2. Oh get to the youth. by Saven+Marek · · Score: 5, Informative

    No it's not the hitler youth, it's the Thought Police Youth.

    Just took 20 years longer than 1984.

  3. First grade classroom, two years from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Ms. PEEAAABODDDYYY!! Bobby is stealing my THOUGHTS!!"

  4. Re:Don't bash them on this one by cwebb1977 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    don't bash them? They're asking kids about their thoughts on thought thieves just to get the rights to all those thoughts for a meager prize?
    Maybe you're right, those kids will learn the most from their own mistakes.

    --
    www.weberseite.at
  5. I'm speechless. by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I tried to think of some witty comments here but there is nothing I can say funnier, darker, or more ironic than the story itself. This is even richer than when the MS Front Page license including a clause forbidding the use of Front Page to make web pages critical of Microsoft. The gall of these people! This is a new low, though, even for them. "Thought thieves"?! Someone up at MS is having a huge laugh over this.

    1. Re:I'm speechless. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually I think it's quite ingenious: They ask what you would do if your creative ideas where "stolen" in the sense that someone else declared them his idea. That's subtly different from what the BSA, RIAA and MPAA are fighting. Nobody tries to pass MS Office as his own creation. But most people would agree that doing so would not be right. Even the most hardcore warez guys take attribution very seriously. So there, "intellectual property" intermingled with a topic that most people can agree on.

      Copyrights, patents and other non-tangible goods are a complicated topic, but if you can dictate the terms which are used in the discussion, you've almost won, as far as the general public is concerned.

      Oh, I hope you got the memo: It's "Thieves" now. "Pirates" have too much of a romantic connotation (thanks MPAA!).

    2. Re:I'm speechless. by inio · · Score: 5, Funny
      I would be pissed off as a parent if my child was brainwashed by such Nazi propaganda. Yes, I said Nazi and I meant it


      Unfortunately, this means you lose. Sorry.
    3. Re:I'm speechless. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      EVERY web page made with FrontPage is a criticism of Microsoft...

    4. Re:I'm speechless. by ThePromenader · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's something profoundly wrong with the idea that ideas can be property. Every time I want to go to the supermarket I don't get out my sketchpad and re-invent the wheel and the combustion motor - a car is ideas built on ideas built on generations of ideas!

      What can protected is the material product that results from an idea - and that only against 'product cloning'. If you want to be the first in the game you have to be the first and you have to use your lead to remain the best if you want to stay there. So the market should be.

      Which makes MS's attitude not only belligerant, but cowardly.

      --

      No, no sig. Really.

      ThePromenader
  6. Lame. by Seumas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Thought Theives? So if I have an idea, never share it with anyone and never act on it or put it into any real tangible form and someone else has the same idea and acts on it, they're a thief and I'm a victim?

    Talk about poorly labeled.

    Oh well. Nothing surprises me anymore. I just hope kids remain indifferent enough that they don't buy into this. What's unfortunate is that I think - if they get to these kids early enough - they'll change their attitudes for life. Kind of like those school programs that convince second graders that their parents are evil if they smoke and that they're alcoholics if they have a glass of wine.

    1. Re:Lame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I just hope kids remain indifferent enough that they don't buy into this. What's unfortunate is that I think - if they get to these kids early enough - they'll change their attitudes for life.

      I had the same worry up until a few years ago. I was on a bus in London and some kids wanted to tag the bus. However, Britain being the camera society that it is they would have been caught on film.

      Two of the girls staged an argument on the stairs and blocked the view of the camera. The boy sneaked up behind them and tagged the stairs. Even though it was an act of vandalism it revived my faith in human nature and I had a Jurassic Park like moment "life will always find a way". Yeah, I think the kids will be fine...

  7. Some advice by Renegade+Lisp · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Start earlier, Microsoft. You won't be able to make somebody aged 14-17 think something that he would not naturally think. Especially when your method has indoctrination so obviously written all over it.

    So start earlier. I recommend early childhood, age 4-6. I recommend showing movies to those kids where "thought thieves" are evil, dark figures that, preferably, linger under kids' beds. You'll make very powerful subconscious fears your ally that way.

    Alternatively, start later. Most teenagers and students will really like the idea of sharing thoughts, and software, and music, and they will only part with it when they enter business life and get a chance to make money themselves by stopping to share. I recommend offering every potential free software/open source developer a large amount of money if they license their stuff to you, exclusively. If that doesn't work, offer them a job at Microsoft, and pay them well. Very well. You might be able to stem the tide that way.

    But seriously, I don't think you will. There have always been developments in history that were so natural and unstoppable that it made those who tried to stop them extremely funny to look at. You're in the process of becoming such a comic figure, Microsoft.

    1. Re:Some advice by Seumas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't know... in America, a shocking percentage of highschool students think free speech goes too far and that the government should have to "okay" everything that is reported in the press and that people have too much free speech.

      I would say the school system has already done half of the job for Microsoft.

    2. Re:Some advice by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Who are you quoting? And if you can name a source for your "statistic" who funded the poll and for what purpose? I am skeptical of most polls because their objective isn't always stated up front, their samples of the population are too small, and the questions can sometimes be misleading.
      It's not like it's particularly difficult to find it yourself.

      How about this, "One in three U.S. high school students say the press ought to be more restricted, and even more say the government should approve newspaper stories before readers see them, according to a survey being released today." 112,003 high school students were surveyed, that doesn't seem like too small a population to me.
      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
  8. The Thought Police! by Xpilot · · Score: 5, Funny

    Microsoft brings us Orwell's grand vision of 1984, but 21 years late. Slipped deadlines, that is so typical of Microsoft.

    --
    "Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
  9. Newton by Alioth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "If I have seen so far, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants" -- Isaac Newton.

    Microsoft only have got where they are today by standing on the shoulders of giants - people who were free with their (highly insightful) thoughts. Don't they remember this?

    I shudder to think how progress would get held back if each individual jealously guarded their thoughts from each other. This campaign sends entirely the wrong message.

  10. Here come the thought police by FidelCatsro · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Currently in my mind i am breaking a hell of alot of copyright laws.
    Songs that get stuck in my head , many many ideas , Songs i remember .
    I occasionaly hum a tune thats most likely copyrighted .
    I have an idea that may already be patent.

    When you start labeling copyright/patent infringment Thought theft then your walking on a really dodgy line. it really does sound incredibly facist .
    We should be teaching children to share and help others , instead we are teaching them suspicion and greed .. Way to go microsoft ..

    I really hope alot of kids send MS vidios depicting facist states Abusing its citizens in some cyber punk future where your thoughts are monitored .
    as it was the first thing that came to my mind when i heard thought thieves

    --
    The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
  11. HEY! No fair! by Harker · · Score: 5, Funny

    I thought of that first!

    H

    --
    When VCR's are outlawed, only outlaws will have VCR's.
  12. Re:Hoax? by Zakabog · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have a feeling it's not

  13. In other news.. by Gentlewhisper · · Score: 5, Funny

    Tony Blair announces that 1000 teenage thought criminals have been rounded up for thought crimes. They will be re-educated at the Ministry of Love and given a chance to repent for their crimes through death.

    In further other news, Bill Gates has announced that Linux is unexist. Purge all memory of "Linux" from your brains now to prevent being labelled a thought criminal!

    1. Re:In other news.. by Beardydog · · Score: 5, Funny

      Mod parent double plus good!

    2. Re:In other news.. by alphakappa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously, I can't believe they ended up using the term 'thought thieves' even though any thought-crime is strongly associated with '1984'. What better way to reinforce the big brother image. Whoever thought this thing up deserves a mention in the annals of great PR history!

      --
      "When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." - Abraham Maslow (1908-1970)
  14. it's *not* illegal to 'steal' thoughts by mojoNYC · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Ideas are most definitely *not* 'protected' (see Lawrence Lessig's Free Culture)--it's only the tangible output of those thoughts.

    This is the M.O. of slimy corporations and politicians everywhere--they are basically lying to people through their gross simplification of complex issues (see 'pirates are bad'), misuse of language (this competition), and outright lying (too many examples to mention).

    What's next? 'Find the hidden pirate treasure on your parent's computer? '

  15. Throwing Stones by donnacha · · Score: 5, Funny

    From Microsoft's poster:

    "So how would you feel if you saw your hard work being passed off as the property of someone else?"

    Gee, I don't know, maybe you could ask the guys who wrote the BSD stack?

  16. Who si the thought thief here? by alexhard · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the website:
    Thought Thieves is about people stealing and profiting from your creation or innovation. Think about it: how would you feel if you saw your hard work being passed off as the property of someone else? What would you do?

    ALSO from the website:
    I will formally licence, on terms acceptable to Microsoft, all intellectual property rights
    in my film and agree to waive all moral rights in relation to my film if requested to do
    so.

    I mean.....WTF!

    --
    Infinite time means everything that can happen, will. You being you is absolutely incidental. You do not exist.
  17. Bounties Legal Confusion by knubee · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Many of the comments so far on this story have drawn the parallels to Orwell, etc. -- and the posts have been witty or outraged.

    There is another aspect of this particular "bounty hunting" campaigne that is fascinating, disturbing, and possibly original. Namely, it is deliberately rewarding and encouraging people to MISUNDERSTAND the law about copyright, patent, and "ideas."

    Would such bounties be acceptable if they encouraged other kinds of legal misunderstandings? For example, many people may erroneously believe "it is legal for me to download anything that appears on the Internet." Imagine if some large company provided similar bounties for films like this:

    "Stop Illegal Harassment! Illegal harassment is when some person or company threatens you to stop doing something, even when you are doing nothing wrong. It sounds like science fiction, but it happens all the time. Some people and companies are contacting individuals who download things on the Internet and threatening them. How would you feel if your brother gave you a copy of the book he just finished reading -- and the publisher came and threatened you for 'stealing' the book? What would you do? We want to know."

    Yes, the example above glides easily between different issues and concepts. But so does the Microsoft announcement, as it talks about "stealing thoughts" one moment -- and then asks how you would feel if people stole the *results* of thought, work, and effort.

    In either case, it is frightening that it is so easy to start the equivalent of a vigilante campaigne that plays on -- and encourages -- people's confusion about the law. Even more frightening is that such campaignes may be perfectly legal.

  18. Re:Screw a PDF by archeopterix · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Microsoft Thought Thieves? Aren't they the ones usually stealing ideas from other companies?
    Yes and no. Yes - they thrive by implementing ideas from other companies. No - because it's not stealing. The whole "intelectual property" (and now "thought thieves") crap is language bastardized to make you believe that thoughts can be owned just like material property.

    This is how they want to legitimize the whole software and "business method" patents, extending copyrights into eternity and a whole bunch of other gimmicks invented to make benefit from "owning" thoughts.

  19. Subversion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why not give Microsoft exactly what they are asking for?

    A little movie about a small company that comes out with some cool new technology, and wants to give it out for free because they feel it will better mankind. A few months after its out it is quite popular in its niche and they are doing well from their ideas, they get a letter from a big company "Letigisoft" saying they infringed on a software patent of theirs. Our heros don't have much money for a legal defense, so they scramble. They know they can't keep their product functional and remove the infringing bit, they can't charge license fees, or afford legal costs. Plus, the patent claims being made are obviously very questionable, but they don't have the legal resources to prove that. Any attempt to go about against "Letigisoft" burries them in paperwork, and onerous disclosure requests that expose all their company's ideas to Letigisoft. So they end up with no choice but the close up shop. A year later "Letigisoft" develops a similar product and charges a lot for it.

    So do something like that with nice production values so the judges will have to watch it. Let it develop slowly, so at first you might not realize that its such a David getting crushed by Goliath sort of thing. Make them all confortable by giving them exactly what they want.

    Big companies who want all this IP fascism have to realize that they need to be careful what they ask for, because it works both ways, and they just might get what they want.