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Ballmer Reflects on Xbox Launch Errors

Posted by Zonk on from the unusually-thoughtful dept.

Steve Ballmer, cheerleader for all things Microsoft, was candid and reflective during the first official day of the expo. Gamespot has coverage of the one hour rap session he held with journalists, discussing game demos, the positioning of the 360, and their rivalry with Sony. From the article: "He voluntarily reflected on the poor pre-release showing the company gave the first-gen Xbox, calling those early demos 'a disaster.' Threaded through his comments in the freeform discussion were constant references to what the company must do to better its performance in the console wars with the Xbox 360." Update: 05/18 21:31 GMT by Z : Helps if I actually link to the article, huh? Interview with Ballmer up on Engadget, as well.

56 of 79 comments (clear)

  1. Uhh.... by DrJonesAC2 · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Links?

    1. Re:Uhh.... by MentalMooMan · · Score: 1

      Links?

      Yeah, what's the actual article? Going from what i can see in the post, it looks like Stevie didn't get his way with the release, and id trying to tell the public that it wasn't his fault.

      --
      43rd Law of Computing:
      Anything that can go wr
      fortune: Segmentation violation -- Core Dumped
  2. Isn't this just a new way of saying by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 1

    that this one is "much more innovative and much better than anything before"?

    I mean, isn't this Microsoft is telling in the last 15 years?

    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
    1. Re:Isn't this just a new way of saying by Golias · · Score: 1

      This has always been Balmer's M.O.

      "Yeah, yeah... I'll grudgingly admit we made some bad moves in the past, but you're going to be thilled with the stuff we are about to do!!! Just you wait and see! I... Love... This... CompanyYEEEAH!"

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    2. Re:Isn't this just a new way of saying by Southpaw018 · · Score: 1

      Microsoft is arguably a corporate behemoth (the "arguably" inserted to make it clear that I'm not trolling here). They didn't get to be #1 by being poor at marketing things. Ballmer knows how to do his job and he knows how to do it well, and you won't catch him making the same mistake twice.

      End point: if Microsoft finds something that can work to their advantage without it getting old, bet on them using it. :)

      --
      ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
    3. Re:Isn't this just a new way of saying by zero_offset · · Score: 1

      YEEEAH!

      I thought "the bleat of victory" was Howard Dean.

      --

      Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005

    4. Re:Isn't this just a new way of saying by zero_offset · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'm well aware of it, I was making a small joke which apparently flopped. While Ballmer did look goofy, I am puzzled by the immense significance the anti-MS community assigns to that outburst.

      --

      Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005

  3. The Article by MBCook · · Score: 5, Informative

    Article.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  4. ummm link? by pokka · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Article is here:

    http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/18/news_61254 22.html

  5. Thanks for the link, Zonk! ;-) by Kaimelar · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Just in case anyone wanted to actually RTFA . . .

    http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/18/news_61254 22.html

  6. Why were they a disaster? by MBCook · · Score: 1
    Why were they a disaster? That's what I want to know. It's not in the article at all. Is it because there were no gameplay movies? Is it because it took the full power of the system to render them (thus games couldn't look that good), what?

    The article is very short on ANYTHING.

    On a side note, why can't I ever get the demos. When the PS shipped, it came with a demo disc of techincal demos that I thought was great. We see all these cool demos that the PS2, PS3, X-Box, X-Box 360, GC and such can do, but why don't they put those on a disc and include it with the hardware just as a way of saying "see, this is what it can do" to the consumer, as a way of showing off. They already developed them, why not give 'em away.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    1. Re:Why were they a disaster? by BoomerSooner · · Score: 1

      thief, jade empire, fifa, madden, mlb, ...
      More than one game in my opinion, hell I don't even like halo.

    2. Re:Why were they a disaster? by StocDred · · Score: 1
      More than one game in my opinion

      In the world of video games, over the course of a console's life cycle, anything under 10 rounds down to 0. I'd expect more than a handful of exclusive AAA games over 4 years. That's been the Xbox's problem since it launched. If they didn't have Live, they'd have even less than nothing.

    3. Re:Why were they a disaster? by MBraynard · · Score: 1

      Actually, they did - they were included with the first issue of the Official Xbox Magazine and have since been included in every issue. I suspect that as release gets closer, you will see more 360 demos included in OXM disks for the original Xbox.

    4. Re:Why were they a disaster? by badasscat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why were they a disaster? That's what I want to know. It's not in the article at all. Is it because there were no gameplay movies?

      He was talking about the original Xbox demos. Which yes, were a disaster.

      GameSpot assumes a certain familiarity with the material in the articles they write, which is probably the correct way to go. You don't go to Gamespot looking for a primer in every single article; they sort of expect you've been keeping up for a while. That's why the backstory is not in there.

      In 2000 (or was it 2001?), MS unveiled the Xbox and then went to E3. Prior to E3, they showed a bunch of tech demos that looked technically amazing, then their E3 showing was awful. I was there; it was pretty bad, and everybody knew it. Their biggest games at that E3 were Blood Wake and PGR, and while a lot of people were impressed with the water effects in Blood Wake, the game itself was dark and drab, as was pretty much every other game in their booth. Worse for them, hardly any of these games were in a state worthy of being on the E3 floor - they were almost all extremely choppy, for one thing (not unlike the Xbox 360 stuff released so far), and many of them crashed repeatedly.

      They took a beating in the press, and it probably did hurt their initial launch numbers.

      But, what it also showed is that E3 ultimately doesn't matter. Two years before, Sega had come in and supposedly blown the doors off everybody else showing 80 games for the Dreamcast in their booth alone, many of which looked really amazing and really fun and got them a ton of good press. Two years later, MS had as negative a showing as Sega had a positive one.

      In the end, the fortunes of the two companies in the game industry turned out exactly the reverse of what you'd expected had you been reading the post-E3 coverage of those events. It's very easy to get sucked into thinking the majority of the public even knows what E3 is, much less cares about what goes on there. They really don't, and so much can happen between E3 and when the products you see there actually go on sale that you really can't make any judgements at all based on anything that happens there.

      As for your second question:

      We see all these cool demos that the PS2, PS3, X-Box, X-Box 360, GC and such can do, but why don't they put those on a disc and include it with the hardware just as a way of saying "see, this is what it can do" to the consumer, as a way of showing off.

      Sometimes they do. All three current system at one point or another have included pack-in games that also have demos on them, or demo discs themselves. It's just not a standard thing, because the early demos often don't represent final product (and often won't even run on final hardware), so it's tough to include them in the first run of systems, and then there's always the question of when to update them. I think it's just a headache that the manufacturers don't really want to deal with, but you can still get demos if you wait a while for the right package.

      Generally, at launch, most manufacturers assume you'll be buying a few games with your system, so demos aren't really necessary. MS does like to include demos on game discs, though, so it's pretty likely they'll keep doing that through the Xbox 360 release. (No idea of Sony or Nintendo will take up that same policy, but both of those companies have also released demo discs as pack-ins and also separately for the PS2 and GameCube.)

  7. In other words... by Reignking · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...we've done a much better job at leaking secrets and hints this time around!

    --
    One man's Funny is another man's Offtopic.
  8. They're sure pulling out the stops by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 3, Funny

    That might explain this.

    Here's a tidbit, but you should read the whole thing:
    Microsoft had brought its own supporters along with them, just in case they got a chilly reception at the press conference!

  9. They ARE making it harder to mod... by mconeone · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Commenting on the ease that game pirates can mod the Xbox, the execs agreed that "with the Xbox, it was too easy [to mod]. In the next generation, we want t o figure it out so even if they figure it out, it won't make economic sense."

    Ruh roh.

    1. Re:They ARE making it harder to mod... by i64X · · Score: 1

      That's what they said about the PStwo too... look how long that took to crack.

  10. They probably used the people from the MTV special by mconeone · · Score: 1

    The unveiling was totally anti-climactic yet they showed close-ups of people with their mouths open... Any gamer worth their weight in salt knows the only thing that matters are the games...

  11. Re:Oh... NOW it's a disaster? by mconeone · · Score: 1

    and remember kids, we *love* the XBox classic and will continue to support it wholeheartedly. Just like Windows ME!

    Actually, MS has no say in whether the XBox is 'supported' or not... The game and peripheral makers do.

  12. Re:They probably used the people from the MTV spec by Reignking · · Score: 1

    The unveiling was totally anti-climactic yet they showed close-ups of people with their mouths open...

    Wow, I'm not really sure if that's appropriate here...take your pr0n talk elsewhere!

    --
    One man's Funny is another man's Offtopic.
  13. Re:Oh... NOW it's a disaster? by joshsisk · · Score: 1

    Actually, MS has no say in whether the XBox is 'supported' or not... The game and peripheral makers do.

    I'm fairly certain most/all console makers have an approval process for games. They can stop the flow of games if they so desire (though why would they). Peripherals, now that's a different story.

  14. Better Article: Engadget & Joystiq by Goyuix · · Score: 3, Interesting

    http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000597043723/

    * Snippet *
    Bach: Just to give you a specific example, wouldn't it be cool to have the game that has the person on the PC being the general who is driving the strategy and the person on the console on Xbox Live executing the strategy. That is a completely new genre, not sure what you would call it, but that's a completely different experience, and it leverages everything that steve talked about that we're putting in place. That's the kind of thinking that we're going to get people to, whether it's first party or third party.
    Look past the gaming aspects of the console, how does the Xbox 360 serve as Microsoft's beachhead into the living room. A 20GB hard drive isn't a lot of space for storage, but since it does have this broadband connection, how is it going to integrated with IPTV, streaming video, and streaming audio?

    Three things: Number one, who knows what configurations will be there by the time we're done. I think that's important to say. Number two, because you do have the network connectivity, whether you have a Media Center PC or not. You can put an awfully big hard disk on a regular PC and plug into this ecosystem, we have plenty of extensibility in terms of storage. And then number three, you take the IP TV work we're doing, and that technology can run on a PC, on a set top box, it can run on an Xbox. So there will be, in conjunction with the work we do with the video delivery companies, particularly the telcos, who have tended to be our strongest customers for our IPTV stuff, there will be yet another way to acquire and use video content. So you have set tops, you have the set top experience, you have the Xbox, you've got a big hard disk, you've got networked to the PC in the home, so I think there will be a lot of ways to get that media onto the Xbox.

    1. Re:Better Article: Engadget & Joystiq by brkello · · Score: 1

      His whole general on the PC with strategy and console player executing really sounds like Natural Selection to me. I forget if they call them something else, but on the human side, there is one person who acts as the battle commander. He tells them where to go with markers, he puts materials in place so that they can build, and just controls the overall strategy. Of course, if you get a bad battle commander, you are pretty screwed.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
  15. Mistake number one. by rylin · · Score: 2, Funny

    Not. Enough. Deodorant.

    1. Re:Mistake number one. by KrisW · · Score: 1

      And yes, I am fully aware of how funny it is to spell the word "grammar" wrong in a post like that.

      *shakes head*

      --


      "Think you can take me? Go ahead on. It's your move." --Joe Don Baker in Final Justice
    2. Re:Mistake number one. by Jakeypants · · Score: 1

      Deodorant, deodorant, deodorant, deodorant.

  16. Good Quote by astro_ripper · · Score: 2, Funny

    "I want to make a lot of money, but the right way," said Ballmer." I don't even know where to begin with this.

    1. Re:Good Quote by mconeone · · Score: 1

      The 'right way' he mentions is through the online subscription service, providing so much value in it that a majority of owners will subscribe. Whether this will happen or not, only time will tell.

  17. Re:Oh... NOW it's a disaster? by mconeone · · Score: 1

    I doubt MS cares

    Plus, that was a launch title!

  18. Yep, standard microsoft... by Ron+Harwood · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "[previous product] sucked - I don't know why anyone used it... I'm ashamed of it... but [new product] is the pinacle of excellence and you'd be a retard to still use [old product] while [new product] is available for only [everything in your wallet, your favourite shirt and your new kitten]."

    --
    BlackNova Traders
  19. Re:Oh... NOW it's a disaster? by uradu · · Score: 1

    Right, MS have a long and illustrious track record of self-deprecation--as long as it relates to the PAST and not something that is a current potential money maker. BG has no problem saying "didn't I look silly in that hat", but he will never in a million years say "gosh, that WMP10 GUI sure is one ugly bugger!"

  20. Artical summary* by FidelCatsro · · Score: 1

    *Ballmer jumps around *
    "Errors Errors Errors Errors Errors Errors Errors -
    Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers "

    --
    The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
  21. Re:Microsoft No Longer Relevant To The Console Mar by mconeone · · Score: 1

    What is this disaster you speak of?

  22. The article is translated to: by AzraelKans · · Score: 1

    "hey we thought they were releasing ps3 THIS year, but now they are saying next year and their CPU is faster than ours. well.. let me see what we can do"

    Any bets on xbox 360 getting delayed 'til next year?

    --
    Go ahead MOD my day!
    More opinions here
  23. Re:Microsoft No Longer Relevant To The Console Mar by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1

    I don't know exactly what he's talking about, but after seeing the screenshots/specs from the PS3 demo, if I was MS, I would give up now.

    --
    "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
  24. Re:Microsoft No Longer Relevant To The Console Mar by mconeone · · Score: 1

    AFAIK, those shots didn't come from a PS3 console, they were CG. If they ARE for real, more power to them. I'm withholding judgement until the console itself produces them.

  25. Re:Microsoft No Longer Relevant To The Console Mar by hollismb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You mean the same pre-rendered stuff and rubby ducky demo (which saw when the PS2 got announced), where none of the games ever came close to looking like that? Don't get me wrong, I watched all of it, and it got me excited in a 'what-if!?!?' sort of way, but I'm not stupid enough to think the actual Killzone 2 would ever look anywhere near what they showed in the CGI movie. God forbid Microsoft actually focus on showing actual games, that will actually be playable at the show and released in the fall, and people rag on them for it by comparing them to the pre-rendered CGI footage and tech demos from the PS3.

  26. Re:Microsoft No Longer Relevant To The Console Mar by Snowmit · · Score: 1

    "Oh Noes! Sony's CGI was prettier than our CGI! Cancel everything!"

    --
    I have a lot of opinions about Cyborgs and Architects
  27. Lets teach Ballmer this song: by AzraelKans · · Score: 1

    "Prerrendered, prerrendered , prerrendered, prerrendered" Tech demos too. Xbox has nothing to worry about, PS3 is going to be great some day but right now, there arent playable games for it. (and Im begining to wonder is there are going to be enough for next year) those shown were either tech demos or prerrendered.

    --
    Go ahead MOD my day!
    More opinions here
  28. Re:Oh... NOW it's a disaster? by joshsisk · · Score: 1

    I can't load the site you link for some reason, but I was simply pointing out that they COULD EOL the console in terms of game releases - if they so desired. When you said "they don't have a say", you were incorrect. They do indeed have a say, at least in terms of games.

  29. Actual Interview Transcript by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

    Reporter: Is the new xbox called xbox 360
    Ballmer: Yes

    Reporter: Do you think it will top PS3
    Ballmer: Yes

    Reporter: Is Bill Gates still the CEO
    Ballmer: Yes

    Reporter: Do you enjoy taking it up the ass
    Ballmer: Yes, I mean.... I am a very busy marketer.

  30. Re:Oh... NOW it's a disaster? by mconeone · · Score: 1

    It's just a review of Kabuki Warriors, possibly the worst game ever.

    You're right that they could prevent game houses from developing for the xbox, but I challenge you to come up with a good reason why they would do it. The only thing I can think of is to 'kill' the xbox, something which would only garner bad publicity. Why buy the next console from them if they will eventually prevent new games being released for it? I guess its pretty much a longshot argument in either direction.

  31. Re:Come on.... by AzraelKans · · Score: 1

    And you are saying that the Xbox ones weren't? Well... if they were they wouldnt have looked so crappy ;)

    --
    Go ahead MOD my day!
    More opinions here
  32. Re:Microsoft No Longer Relevant To The Console Mar by EnglishTim · · Score: 1

    Lies?

    It's pretty clear that Sony has the advantage with the brand, and that the PS3 *will* be more powerful than the Xbox 360, but the Killzone 2 demo *was* prerendered. I don't see that as spreading lies.

  33. Re:Oh... NOW it's a disaster? by KrisW · · Score: 1

    Microsoft has a bit of a say. New developers aren't going to be able to get dev kits from a company that doesn't support the hardware. Old developers may not be able to renew the necessary licenses. I'm not sure about that one though.

    --


    "Think you can take me? Go ahead on. It's your move." --Joe Don Baker in Final Justice
  34. Doesn't make sense to me. by AlephNot · · Score: 1

    This doesn't make sense to me. Aren't games their main source of revenue when it comes to the Xbox? Why would they care if people decide to mod their Xbox, as long as they still buy games? IMHO, the Xbox would be more valuable to the consumer if it could be modified in any way they see fit, but this is MS we're talking about... Oh well.

    --
    "Feel a glory in so rolling / on the human heart a stone" --E. A. Poe, "The Bells"
    1. Re:Doesn't make sense to me. by mconeone · · Score: 1

      The #1 reason people mod their xbox is to pirate games. I'v seen one, its like a jukebox with tons of games on it, no CD switching required.

    2. Re:Doesn't make sense to me. by spudgun · · Score: 1

      you can do this with PS2 as well ....
      switching CDs is a PITA....

      --
      Type unto others as you would have them type unto you.
  35. Re:Microsoft No Longer Relevant To The Console Mar by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1

    It was said that the Unreal engine shots were in realtime. That's good enough for me.

    --
    "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
  36. Re:Oh... NOW it's a disaster? by Bachus9000 · · Score: 1

    but he will never in a million years say "gosh, that WMP10 GUI sure is one ugly bugger!"

    Sure he will...when WMP11 is released. :)

  37. Re:Oh... NOW it's a disaster? by joshsisk · · Score: 1

    As I said in my original comment... "They can stop the flow of games if they so desire (though why would they)."

  38. Go Ballmer! by Headcase88 · · Score: 1

    "So Ballmer, what's the most important thing we need to make sure the 360 is as successful as it can be?"

    "Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers!"

    "So we need companies that can develop good games?"

    "Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers!"

    "Well said."

    --
    "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
  39. Re:Modded redundant? On first post? by DrJonesAC2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yep, it's official. They only give mod points to those with an IQ less than 60.

  40. Re:Microsoft No Longer Relevant To The Console Mar by EnglishTim · · Score: 1

    If you've got a definitive source for that, I'd love to see it.

    Yes, some stuff was definitely rendered in realtime. Fight Night was for example, as was the Final Fantasy VII demo and I-8. However, there was a definite difference in quality between those titles and some of the others like Killzone 2. Now don't get me wrong, I'm sure Killzone 2 will look lovely, but just not quite that lovely.