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Teacher Fired for P2P Lecture
An anonymous reader writes "A teacher at the Polytechnic University of Valencia, Spain, was forced to resign after a talk about P2P networks. You can read his side of the story on his blog." From the article: "The day before the conference, the Dean (pressured by the Spanish Recording Industry Association 'Promusicae' as I found out later, and he recognized himself in a quote to the national newspaper El Pais, and even the Motion Picture Association of America, as another newspaper quotes) tried to stop it by denying permission to use the scheduled venue. So I scheduled a second one, and that was denied again. And a third time. Finally I gave the conference on the university cafeteria, for 5 hours, in front of 150 people." Commentary on this story at BoingBoing as well.
...he should have ended it with "I'll probably be fired for this, so each of you go tell everybody you know." Or something to that effect.
How are you going to suppress a n^x communication growth curve?
Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
He wasn't fired. He (claims he) was pressurised into resigning. I ain't making any judgement or saying anything else until I've heard an account of events from someone less close to the controversy.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
I just don't get it. Why should talking about P2P networks be considered illegal, and why was he forbidden in the first place? Of course, after being forbidden once, he should have fought with the authorities and argued his case until he got permission, not ignored them and gone on to speak.
Hoffa better start makin room in his coffin for this guy...
This guy goes out to talk about the legal uses of P2P networks, and the recording industry gets him fired. How exactly do they expect to convince people to buy their products rather than downloading them, if they do this sort of thing?
How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
The Director called me and first asked me to remove any link to the university from my website, and also to "hide" the fact that I was teaching there. Then he told me about the pressures and threats he and the Program received (to be subjected to software licenses inspection, copyright violations inspections, or anything that may damage them). Obviously I had to resign to save his job (and everybody else's at the Masters Program). So I did.
I'm not trying to say what happened was at all right, but it does not help the argument to start stories with the claim that he was fired. Fudging the little facts to get attention always in the long run will be held against you, and your side will not be taken as seriously.
Also, one should remember that this teacher was not approved to give the lecture and decided to go without permission and give it in the cafeteria. This would be grounds for inspecting someones future at most companies/universities.
Once again, I think what happened was a shame, but I also think that ignoring these facts is just unacceptable.
You really only get one side from this story. I'm no fan at censorships at University, but the guy was really asking for it. After being told repeatedly by his administration that this was a no-go (and we don't have the full story on why this was a no-go) he did it anyways. It's insubordination, more than anything else. If he had worked in less confrontational manner, who knows what he might have been able to acheive.
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Welcome to Academia. That's how you fire people here.
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If it was as simple as that then very few people would ever be pressurised into resigning. However, if they make your job (and subsequently your life) unbearable then you have to weigh up whether it is worth it. In many cases it wont be. If the guy had the balls to do the lecture in the cafe after it was cancelled twice then I doubt he was a pushover as you seem to be implying.
Copyright Infringement is to stealing as Forced to resign is to fired.
Sometimes the grief you can get from standing up for yourself at the wrong time isn't worth it at that moment.
Sometimes its better to wait to make your case...
Spending the next 6 months in prison to make your point ( or dead ) even if you are right, isn't cool. Especially when postponing your 'statement' a little will keep you outside.
Proper timing is everything. Especially when you have a life to lead, and a family to support.
And in this case he's getting his word out, and saved his financial butt in the process.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Well, while it's true the end result is the same (he loses his job), the distinction is still important. Being fired and being "forced" to resign (tangent: forced how?) are not the same thing. If he refused to resign, for instance, and THEN was fired, that would be something else entirely, no?
Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
nobody expects the Spanish (Recording Industry Association) inquisition!
What I find unbelievable is this whole "P2P is illegal" thing.
Certain uses of P2P technology, which involves sharing of copywrited material is indeed illegal. However, there is nothing illegal about P2P technology in and of itself.
There are large corporations out there that are working to build legitimate P2P applications for the benefit of the general public.
Where's the disconnect?
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If he'd been a tenured professor, he wouldn't have been under as much personal pressure to resign but that wouldn't have stopped his department from being "audited" to death by the industry, and he might still have chosen to resign to "take one for the team."
I hope there's an investigation into the outside pressure:
Either there is reason for department to be audited or it shouldn't be, but the topics of discussion in the lectures should NOT be a determining factor, and his resignation should NOT change whether or not any audits proceed. The fact that his resignation changed that outcome means it's political, and as such there needs to be an investigation, so this kind of thing doesn't happen again.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
First, it would have cost the university a software audit. "Who cares?" you say. This would undoubtedly turn up something on someone's machine that was illegal, and the university would be fined. Then the university would make damn sure that this guy never worked anywhere in academia ever again.
So, if you are prepared to deal with this sort of thing, it's not a big deal. Stand up for your rights. But, unless you want to lose your job anyway and then not get hired elsewhere, it's best to resign.
Unfortunately, as previous posters have noted, that's the way it works in academia.
What happens to a society when the moneyed interests have a controling influence in everything? The Government. The Media. The Schools. NPR had an exellent segment yesterday on Peru's National Intelligence leader durring the Fujimori regime. The jist of it was that he was able to run a de-facto authoritarian country, not through physical coersion, but through bribing everyone. Even if the RIAA and MPAA has no army, their wealthy legal department and overall financial influence could be enough to silence just about anyone important the world over.
------ Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government.
Okay, the teacher was pressured by the director, and the director was pressured by the Dean.
Who was applying pressure to the Dean, and how? And why does giving a talk to 150 people justify this level of pressure?
It sounds more like a tinfoil hat conspiracy where the Dean had his own reasons for doing what he did, but I'm not convinced the media cartels had anything to do with it.
Obviously no Free Speech rights in Spain -- even in the university system.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Wafflers. The university should know better than to fear a entertainment industry. This teacher should know better as well. Lecturing at the cafeteria? Who cares... its a quasi public place and they were obviously conspiring against him. The facts could b e more clear, I'd just like to see a little more strength that's probably the mean american in me though.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
"Obviously I had to resign to save his job (and everybody else's at the Masters Program). So I did."
Something doesn't add up here, but that depends on the alternative of not resigning. There was no real foundation for a dismissal, so he would have been shifted to a quieter role until he made a simple mistake.(tangent: forced how?)
Forced to resign under threat of being Fired.
Duh.
You see, in non-McDonald level jobs, being fired is a serious impediment to getting hired elsewhere. However, if you "resign", you can BS your next employer as to the reason.
they normally get two choices: be fired or resign.
Now which would sound better to future prospective employers?.
Well, while it's true the end result is the same (he loses his job), the distinction is still important.
but the end result is NOT the same (at least in the business world). severance packages are often very different (nonexistent in firing). being allowed to resign is much better...
IANAL, but in most countries if you are forced into a position where you feel incorrectly pressured to resign, and you do resign, that is still grounds for an unfair dismissal case. He was effectively fired by the comments that were presented to him.
However, I do agree with some people that it would have been a clearer argument if he waited longer for the situation to develop more and made proper recordings of phone calls "discussing his problematic situation".
Nowhere in the article or in the quote was there a single word about an EU state being pressured.
He expressed surprise that he should suffer censorship in an EU state. Not everyone thinks the American game of "Yes, Mr. President!" is the only way to live life.
Akarsz Magyar Gentoo fórumot? Akkor
Doesn't he have a union or something? I mean, this is Spain, I didn't think things like this could happen there without some kind of repurcussions for the entity doing the firing.
I can't believe how quickly these creatures have crawled from beneath the bridges and translated their near-unintelligble grunts to paper.
Mods, please mark "Troll" to anyone who posts anything like:
"He's a wuss, he backed down and quit."
or
"He resigned, he didn't get fired. TFA != Story Title"
Half-truth: He resigned.
Complete truth: He was forced to resign, and denounced by the university. The university said, "he only taught a few classes," when he'd been teaching full-time for 5 years!
This is BS, and censorship at its worst. I'm working on becoming a Computer Science professor, and this article makes me glad I don't live in Spain. Does anyone remember this from a few weeks ago? The RIAA wants just as much control over U.S. universities as the Spanish equivalent already has over theirs.
I pity the foo that isn't metasyntactic
So, he was never a teacher, and he only taught a few classes.
Never teacher... taught classes.
Hmm.
A university isn't the same as a business. The notion of academic freedom is central to a university, and the fact that a group of record companies could pressure a dean in this way shows that these guys have taken upon themselves far too much power. It was wrong, it was a violation of the notions of academic freedom, and I think the time is coming when we better sit down and figure out just how much power we want RIAA and its clones elsewhere in the world to have.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
And if you commit a crime, and turn yourself in, you only surrendered and are not 'Arrested' right?
/backhandslap
Being forced to resign IS being fired.
But its ok to spend a year dead for tax reasons :).
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Could someone host his p2p lecture as worldwide video conferencing thing? I quite interested in what it all was about
Relase it via bittorrent. Nothing like using a P2P network to prove the point.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
I only teach part-time, but I definitely make use of class time to push P2P on the students and tell them that it is their responsibility to get out there and share as much as they can. I find the students are eager to discuss the issue.
I see it as a personal obligation to get people to use P2P, especially the ones that are scared of it. Now, I don't publicly encourage them to violate copyright in the sense that I direct them to sites like eTree and Knoppix, but I do use class time to teach them how to set up BitTorrent to work with TOR and discuss the merits of clients like Mute and GNUnet.
To me, this is just following the trend. The RIAA, MPAA and BSA are all into encouraging shools to spend more time on the topic of intellectual property so teachers should feel obliged to take them up on it and use class time to discuss these topics at length.
I think schools should spend a whole day each week doing nothing but discussing P2P and exchanging examples of the right way to share. The more time devoted to the topic, the better.
Whether he resigned or was fired, or was pressured to resign is another matter. He was censored in his own university, for God's sake!
His lecture wasn't denied twice, and if he was fired over it he'd have an open and shut wrongful termination suit, assuming that they have such a thing in Spain. His *request for a venue* was denied twice. So he gave the lecture in a place where he didn't have to ask for permission. As a trivial example, you get turned down twice trying to reserve a school field for your baseball game. So you have it at the next door park instead, where you don't have to ask.
I think it would be great if they made peer-to-peer illegal. Since IP is a peer-to-peer protocol, you'd be able to shut down the operations of Sprint, Qwest, AOL, Verisign, and millions more. One day of 'peer-to-peer is illegal' would be enough for proof by contradiction.
Just because it is _predictable_ does not make it legitimate. If he worked for Transglobal Conglomerates, the firing would be perfectly legit.
The proud history of universities is that they are supposed to be places for the sharing of information, not places for censorship. A university is generally considered to be part of a public trust of information, unlike a privately held for profit corporation. The charter of a university is usually not-for-profit and to spread and increase knowledge.
Good universities have professors who say scandalous things and - if they are well thought out - keep their jobs (usually unless they are personally attacking more senior faculty). By going ahead and getting forced to resign, I believe he did exactly what he intended - proved his university isn't interested in education and doesn't deserve to exist. (Unless of course they come back and remedy it)
Furthermore it is part of the mandate of a professor to do things like this - they are supposed to be making the world a better place, and they have a burden to that - the same way a doctor is supposed to help people even if they work for a corporation. They have BOTH responsibilities.
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It's safer for the company, too, because you can't come back with a wrongful termination suit if you weren't terminated. Being asked to resign is essentially the company paying you to leave.
*sigh*
There's a lot of comments here about how he should have gotten tenure, spoke to a union, in the U.S pressured resignation == firing, in the U.S. pressured resignation != firing, etc. How about someone from Spain actually chiming in? Is there a tenure system in Spanish universities? Teacher's union?
I live in Spain. It's generally pretty cool, but one thing I really don't like about it is that there isn't the freedom of speech here that there is in the rest of Europe.
Politicians here sometimes sue members of the public for slander or libel. The last president did it (aznar). I like the UK, where you can happily calll tony blair a liar and not worry he's going to try to sue you for it!
Physics professors routinely give lectures that are, essentially, instructions for making a nuclear weapon. Chemistry professors often teach how to create the energetic reactions that most people call explosions. Engineering professors teach the methods that can cause buildings to fall down. No one suggests that these topics must not be taught. Indeed, there is significant intellectual content in each of these topics. Nuclear power, how to avoid explosions, and how to avoid falling buildings, all require knowledge that might be misused.
The idea of a p2p network is useful for many purposes other than distribution of copyrighted material. Distribution of public-domain materials, software upgrades and patches, government documents, and contributed materials are all legitimate. The protocols and technology that are used in current p2p implementations is a legitimate topic of study, so that researchers can design improved versions for future use. Methods to discover and disable the illegal copying of copyright material, without disabling the legal publishing of contributed public-domain material, is another legitimate area for research.
Of course, it is possible that some of the people attending these lectures had the intention of using the material to violate the law. But, it is also possible that some of the students who take physics, chemistry, or engineering courses have the intention of using that material to violate other laws. If we suppress every topic that might be used to do harm, there will not be much left in our universities.
Interesting how one of the pressure tactics were the license audits. Propriatary vendors obviously have the right to do this, but it appears to have been a source of great leverage in silencing critics.
Also interesting, the teacher was only going to share his opinion on why using P2P may be legal. In America at least we are generally pretty protective of the right to debate ideas. The MPAA and its spanish counterparts though appear to be opposed to this concept.
If you're going to be an academic institution it would seem prudent to move away from software and support of groups that are unwilling to even allow different opinions to be expressed on a college compus about a topic. We used to call that type of exchange education.
The first rule about P2P, is you don't talk about P2P!
how 'bout I give you the finger....and you give me my phone call.
Yeah.. Just look at the power of slashdot. I'm referring to katie.com riot recently. This may turn into an e-bloodbath..
:-P Bah! Humbug!)
But anyway, I would like to point out that Spain just emerged from dictatorship to constitutional monarchy/democracy when General Franco died in 1975. That's about 30 years ago. Not really that long ago IMO, and it's not really a wonder when strong-arm tactics can still get away with lotsa things. It's not like they have really embraced democracy totally. I mean, they still have separatists movement like ETA and the Basque.. It's a turbulent brutality where money and influence speaks... and goes...
Case in point, Indonesia.. Suharto just resigned... But power structure of the ruling party's still there..
Possible flashpoint, Myanmar/Burma. The military gonna turn over power to civillian democracy.. Hah!
I have great respect for Germany and Japan. From Dictatorship to Democracy. Not perfect but I'm sure no one can say otherwise when compared to the others that I just pointed it out.
Regards!
deunan_k
(Stupid when my ISP's proxy got banned, and I can't login and post!
Also, one should remember that this teacher was not approved to give the lecture and decided to go without permission and give it in the cafeteria. This would be grounds for inspecting someones future at most companies/universities.
At companies, yes. At universities, no.
In academia, knowledge moves forward as we argue for competing viewpoints. Universities can't function properly unless it's possible to argue for unpopular viewpoints without fear of reprisal. This is one of the major differences between academia and the business world.
I'm a faculty member myself. If I choose to stand up in a cafeteria and speak my mind on any subject I please, that is my right. I'm not required or expected to obtain anybody's approval or permission. The rules are that I can't be fired for this. If you disagree with my viewpoint, then the correct response is to use your own freedom to state your dissent.
Most folks in academia, both faculty and administration, understand this, agree with it strongly as a value, and go to considerable lengths to safeguard this ability. Those safeguards grossly broke down in this case.
>blockquote> What else would *YOU* do if they told you that unless you leave, they will fire the whole department along with you? Me?? Well, the first thing I'd do is obtain a formal statement from the university and a copy of my contract of employment.
The next thing I'd do is consult with an employment lawyer. Then, if my lawyer advised to me resign, I probably would. However, if my lawyer pointed out that firing the entire department would
a) leave the University short of crucial teaching staff during the exam period
b) result in the biggest "unfair dismissal" employment tribunal in recent history...
there's a fairly good chance I wouldn't resign.
And if he resigned without having taken legal advice he's either very foolish, or knew he was in the wrong and isn't giving us the full story.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
"So I scheduled a second one, and that was denied again. And a third time. Finally I gave the conference on the university cafeteria, for 5 hours, in front of 150 people." Rank Insubordination is a firing offense at most jobs.
Get in line, you sheep.
Apparently you cannot see the bigger picture:
The issue is:
What motivation did the administration have to have "wishes" of that nature? Do you really think it was the administration alone? No, the administration was affected by an external force - the M.A.F.I.A. (See other posts in this topic for what that means).
As the administrations true onus is to provide an environment for learning, and not just to learn those OfficiallyApproved(TM) topics, but anything that would advance human knowledge, then the administration was acting against it's own charter.
Quit spouting the line of the true conformist.
[If] You don't start fighting for your freedom, you're not going to have much left.
This is a good example of where "suits" step in to try and stop something they dont really understand, and getting it completely wrong. Sure the guy technically resigned, I would too if someone else would get fired if I didnt. This is censorship at its worst. Academic institutions are meant to be places where reasoned debates can take place, not where sanitized views are forced upon people. I think it was Winston Churchhill who said: "I might not agree with your opinion, but I will defend to my death your right to make an idiot of yourself"(or something similar)
I think this will spread the story much quicker than his lecture 150 attendants.
It doesn't matter WHY they say it, they pay his salary, he either listens or goes elsewhere.
Actually, it does matter. Most western societies consider colleges and universities to be places where the exchange of ideas should be paramount. Any censorship in this regard should be cause for great concern.
Many are pointing out that this guy was not a professor, so what's the big deal? The answer is that this was in connection to a discussion about IP law. If they can't discuss the specifics of the applications of technology, then what are they there for? Shall we wait for an exalted professor to get chastised for saying the same thing before we get worked up over this?
No, this is not good news...
Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
Uh, that's pretty much a one way "P2P" that the BBC is running. It's more of a client-server thing. There is no real disconnect. They're trying to stop real P2P publishing....amongst individuals. This is the real intention. The whole piracy thing is more of a distraction...like the way kiddie porn is used to villify freenet. The corps don't want to see widespread publication of anything without going through them first. Copyright is the tool used by gov't through the corps to censor.
What?
The talk was outside the cafeteria and without microphones, so people were quite packed around Jorge, sitting on the floor, in order to hear what he was saying (cafeterias tend to be noisy places).
You can see some photos of the people here .
Teach them how to write P2P systems.
I know the class below me at Edinburgh Uni had a project which involved writing thier own P2P app.
P2P Apps are a great learning experience in socket programming, distributed systems, threading and many other skills that do transfer into other areas.
However if this stuff doesn't relate to your major then i fail to see why it should be taught. Regardless of how paradigm-shifting some people think p2p is - it's just a new way to use an old technology. And unless you study CS, Law, or some relevant social science then it's not what you (or your government) are paying for you to go to uni for.
I gave an impromptu lecture last week--to a group of high school students--about the recording industry. It went something like this:
." Then I went into a good 40 minute description of the business practices of that industry. The exploitation, the loophole payola, the underhanded deals. I went to show them on the board how if a major record label signed their band, how they could sell a million records and still not make any money themselves. To be fair, I also pointed out that most bands don't sell many recordings, and how the industry loses money on them.
"Mr. Highgate, is sharing music files on the Internet wrong?"
"Well, students, it's illegal. And, according to the recording industry of America, it takes money away from recording artists."
"Yes, but is it wrong?"
"Let me tell you about the business practices of the recording industry . .
"Is it wrong?" I concluded. "Well, student's, that's a moral decision you'll have to make on your own. This is a civics class. All I'm going to tell you is that it's not legal, and you'd be insanely stupid to do it using the school's computers."
Though if anyone in the administration told me not to discuss this topic, I would probably comply. Just because I don't like the RIAA doesn't mean I'd be willing to martyr myself for it.
The Internet is generally stupid
Fair enough, with the Iraq war there was a bit of the if you disagree with me you are a traitor and should be jailed mentality.
That is a perfect example of the point being made. You can say just about anything here, no matter how loony or (in this case) unpatriotic. You might be called a traitor for speaking out against the war, but you will not be prosecuted as one.
This is not an example of suppression of distasteful speech; it's an example of its exercise.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
You say the contract was finished.
A nice clean agreable break isn't a bad thing.
- A CNN VP
- News Producers/Executive Producers at (at least) two of the major networks
- Various well-known journalists at the national level
- Various local well-known journalists (who I met years before I moved into this area)
If some employer tried to screw me like that, you can bet the excrement would hit the oscillating unit, if you know what I mean. If you don't have at least phone numbers of two or three reporters somewhere at your disposal... well, you're probably normal.Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
I pity the foo that isn't metasyntactic
Not really. It's probably the Spanish version of the ECDL - like a driving license, it's a certificate showing that the bearer has passed exams regarding basic computer knowledge and skills.
:-) )
( We seem to be getting somewhere, in Norway at least "Datakortet" - the "Computer Card" - can be obtained using Linux
hawk
You might be called a traitor for speaking out against the war, but you will not be prosecuted as one.
You might be fired from your job, denied permits and licenses, and be harassed short of prosecution, and otherwise persecuted for it. No, you can't be prosecuted, but so long as the non-judicial punishment is under the radar that's just fne.